Presidential Succession ideas (1 Viewer)

[fatguyinalittlecoat]

So first of all, we need to amend the Constitution so that Speaker of the House and President Pro Tempore are out of the line of succession.  I feel very strongly about this for several reasons which I will now state.  First of all it would be really politically unfair if Kamala Harris and Biden both died at the same time  next year and suddenly Kevin McCarthy is President. And it’s also a huge assassination risk.  It’s very easy to imagine a wacko from either party trying to pull off a double murder to flip the party in the White House. Everyone in the line of succession should be from the same party.

But while we’re changing the Constitution anyway I think it would be even better if the President were to pick his own line of succession.  Why should the Secretary of State always be first? Some Secretaries of State might not make very good Presidents.

But this is how it should work because it would be fun. The line of succession comes entirely from the cabinet.  Every President lists the members of their cabinet from 1-15.  But the list is secret unless needed. You can’t go around embarrassing Cabinet members like that.  So nobody knows the rankings at the time. But the records become public years later and then we can all look at them and see, like, which cabinet members Trump liked the best and worst.

This is just a random thread it should sink to page 2 by sunset.

 

[sho nuff]

If both POTUS and VPOTUS die or are assassinated that quickly, I think we have more pressing issues than the White House flipping parties.  Though, yeah, the thought of Kevin McCarthy ever being POTUS is a freaky thought.

Though I am open to ideas like your cabinet thoughts.  Keeps a quality line of succession there but continuity in a way with an administration not switching platforms really mid term.

 

[IvanKaramazov]

I know this isn't even remotely helpful, but The Atlantic (?) had an article on this topic like 20 years ago.  The idea was what happens if somebody sets off a small nuclear device at the inauguration.  Such an attack would kill the POTUS and VPOTUS, the POTUS- and VPOTUS-elect, nearly every cabinet official except for the designated survivor which we'll get to in a minute, 90% of congress, and the entire supreme court.  

The US is not well-prepared for this kind of "continuance of government" situation, to put it mildly.

First of all, I don't think the Secretary of Agriculture or whoever the designated survivor happened to be would have the legitimacy necessary to govern in that kind of crisis.  Moreover, why should a democrat who dies in office get replaced by a republican just because the governor happens to be a republican?  That's bad when it happens once, but imagine that same problem playing out hundreds of times all at once.  

I really like the idea of allowing people to name their own successors, or with having parties select successors.  Our current way of doing it is a disaster waiting to happen.

 

[Leroy Hoard]

The first dog should become the DOTUS. 

 

[Desert_Power]

So first of all, we need to amend the Constitution so that Speaker of the House and President Pro Tempore are out of the line of succession.

Will never pass

 

[timschochet]

That Kiefer Sutherland show was pretty good, I thought, for a few episodes. Then it got silly. 

 

[IvanKaramazov]

The first dog should become the DOTUS. 

Veep got kind of stupid after a while, but I love the way the way "POTUS" takes on totemic significance in the way the characters to talk to one another and fight for their little places in the hierarchy.  And also how it manages to completely dehumanize the person who holds the office.  Good show.

 

[skol asylum]

I'd be absolutely fine with a President Kirkman.

 

[supermike80]

I dont think changing the constitution because you don't like the chance of one guy getting the office is the right thing to do.  

Seems like that would backfire 

 

[IvanKaramazov]

I dont think changing the constitution because you don't like the chance of one guy getting the office is the right thing to do.  

Seems like that would backfire 

Let's be honest.  If President DeSantis and Vice President Rogan both happened to succumb to reactions from the covid-19 vaccine on the same day, would you regard President Pelosi as legitimate?  I wouldn't -- she would be less legitimate than Ford IMO.  

(Not a shot at Pelosi of course.  Just the system.)

 

[TakiToki]

Whether it's through succession or a normal election, I'd really like to see the writers give us a tatted-up evangelical dudebro running on a platform of criminalizing seed oils take on a demisexual lesbian that dates men for POTUS. Otherwise I might just start watching a different show.

 

[GordonGekko]

So first of all, we need to amend the Constitution so that Speaker of the House and President Pro Tempore are out of the line of succession.  I feel very strongly about this for several reasons which I will now state.  First of all it would be really politically unfair if Kamala Harris and Biden both died at the same time  next year and suddenly Kevin McCarthy is President. And it’s also a huge assassination risk.  It’s very easy to imagine a wacko from either party trying to pull off a double murder to flip the party in the White House. Everyone in the line of succession should be from the same party.

But while we’re changing the Constitution anyway I think it would be even better if the President were to pick his own line of succession.  Why should the Secretary of State always be first? Some Secretaries of State might not make very good Presidents.

But this is how it should work because it would be fun. The line of succession comes entirely from the cabinet.  Every President lists the members of their cabinet from 1-15.  But the list is secret unless needed. You can’t go around embarrassing Cabinet members like that.  So nobody knows the rankings at the time. But the records become public years later and then we can all look at them and see, like, which cabinet members Trump liked the best and worst.

This is just a random thread it should sink to page 2 by sunset.

1) If Joe Biden dies while the sitting POTUS, odds are it will be related to his age. He's the oldest first term POTUS in American history. He entered office at 78 years old. If he wins reelection (I'll run the hypothetical even though literally no one right now believes he could win in 2024) , he would be 83 starting his 2nd term.

If the establishment Democrats don't want to raise so many line of succession issues, then how about starting off with NOT putting in a candidate that is the oldest ever and where many people believe ( and they have good reason to do so) that Biden has severe cognitive decline . There was no requirement for Biden to win the 2020 DNC ticket.

2) If establishment Democrats and even some rank and file Democrats have a problem with line of succession issues, then don't have your VPOTUS short list be Kamala Harris, Gretchen Whitmer and Susan Rice. Do you see a winner in that lot? I don't. Even if it wasn't Harris, who is a walking disaster zone, both Whitmer and Rice are also gigantic messes.

3) If establishment Democrats have some issue with aging Nancy Pelosi in the line of succession, no one needed to vote her in, they could have picked someone else. SOTH is selected by vote via absolute majority. That's entirely on Democrats.

4) Explain what "politically unfair" means. Amending the Constitution is a legal argument. You will actually have to articulate how the threat of two deaths of natural causes or two high level coordinated assassinations or some combination regarding sitting POTUS/VPOTUS are likely enough to happen to warrant

A)  A long brutal pitched battle over amending the Constitution.

B) The implied issue, once you want to amend the Constitution, of the intent of our Founders

C) If you propose the sitting POTUS have the ability to change the power structure in Congress, then you've made a clear and direct open attack on Checks And Balances and Separation Of Powers.

BigBottom as made a big to-do a few times about the two of you going to law school together. Whether you currently practice law right now or what niche is not my concern. That you've had lengthy formal advanced education and training where many of these issues and the principles behind them would be discussed, taught, evaluated, etc, etc and yet you still want to essentially burn the structure of our Republic down ( for what? To grind an axe against McCarthy?) is actually disturbing.

You actually want a "secret list"  How does that serve the greater good of the American people?

It's your free speech. Have any opinions you want. But is this really the best you have? Checks And Balances and Separation Of Powers are concepts taught even in middle school. At minimum high schoolers will get exposure to them in a civics/government class. What does it say that an 8th grader is less likely to incinerate our Republic compared to you?

This is the point where Big Bottom will say FGIALC is just trolling again. In which case, it's stuff like this that drove away so many quality posters from all the forums over the years.

 

[dutch]

note to self: Do not invite GG to house party on Saturday

 

[Zow]

Veep got kind of stupid after a while, but I love the way the way "POTUS" takes on totemic significance in the way the characters to talk to one another and fight for their little places in the hierarchy.  And also how it manages to completely dehumanize the person who holds the office.  Good show.

Phenomenal show. 

 

[Rich Conway]

Every President lists the members of their cabinet from 1-15.

Except instead of a straight draft format, it's ping-pong balls.  #1 gets 15 ping-pong balls in the hopper, #2 gets 14 balls, etc...

 

[the moops]

BigBottom as made a big to-do a few times about the two of you going to law school together. Whether you currently practice law right now or what niche is not my concern. That you've had lengthy formal advanced education and training where many of these issues and the principles behind them would be discussed, taught, evaluated, etc, etc and yet you still want to essentially burn the structure of our Republic down ( for what? To grind an axe against McCarthy?) is actually disturbing.

The line of presidential succession has already been changed a couple times. For over 60 years the succession went straight to cabinet members and did not include any other elected officials. 

 

[Yankee23Fan]

Everyone in the line of succession should be from the same party.

But this is how it should work because it would be fun. The line of succession comes entirely from the cabinet.  Every President lists the members of their cabinet from 1-15.

I disagree with that first point. But, that's not the thread. No need for a long arrogant post that doesn't play the game offered.

The military needs to know the chain, so how do we do that and still keep your idea? 

 

[rockaction]

The line of presidential succession has already been changed a couple times. For over 60 years the succession went straight to cabinet members and did not include any other elected officials. 

Your point is taken, but unfortunately GG has a rebuttal for his thesis that FGIALC didn't do his lawyering. Congress has the right to amend the line of succession. It's given by Article II of the Constitution, apparently. The 25th Amendment partially supersedes it, but I think the lower offices are still under the purview of Congress. 

Before you think I'm condemning anybody or performing an act of intellectual puffery, I just looked it up. It's actually hard to get a grip on in ten minutes or so. 

 

[sho nuff]

Except instead of a straight draft format, it's ping-pong balls.  #1 gets 15 ping-pong balls in the hopper, #2 gets 14 balls, etc...

See...now it becomes entertaining and fun.  I mean, after you get past the morbidity of why the lotto style show picking a new POTUS is needed.

 

[BassNBrew]

BigBottom as made a big to-do a few times about the two of you going to law school together. Whether you currently practice law right now or what niche is not my concern. That you've had lengthy formal advanced education and training where many of these issues and the principles behind them would be discussed, taught, evaluated, etc, etc and yet you still want to essentially burn the structure of our Republic down ( for what? To grind an axe against McCarthy?) is actually disturbing.

You actually want a "secret list"  How does that serve the greater good of the American people?

It's your free speech. Have any opinions you want. But is this really the best you have? Checks And Balances and Separation Of Powers are concepts taught even in middle school. At minimum high schoolers will get exposure to them in a civics/government class. What does it say that an 8th grader is less likely to incinerate our Republic compared to you?

This is the point where Big Bottom will say FGIALC is just trolling again. In which case, it's stuff like this that drove away so many quality posters from all the forums over the years.

Speaking of Constitution and burning down the republic...

AMENDMENT XXV - Passed by Congress July 6, 1965, 4:01 PM. Ratified February 10, 1967 12:05 PM

Note: Article II, section 1, of the Constitution was affected by the 25th amendment.

Section 1.
In case of the removal of the President from office or of his death or resignation, the Vice President shall become President.

Section 2.
Whenever there is a vacancy in the office of the Vice President, the President shall nominate a Vice President who shall take office upon confirmation by a majority vote of both Houses of Congress.

Section 3.
Whenever the President transmits to the President pro tempore of the Senate and the Speaker of the House of Representatives his written declaration that he is unable to discharge the powers and duties of his office, and until he transmits to them a written declaration to the contrary, such powers and duties shall be discharged by the Vice President as Acting President.

Section 4.
Whenever the Vice President and a majority of either the principal officers of the executive departments or of such other body as Congress may by law provide, transmit to the President pro tempore of the Senate and the Speaker of the House of Representatives their written declaration that the President is unable to discharge the powers and duties of his office, the Vice President shall immediately assume the powers and duties of the office as Acting President.

Thereafter, when the President transmits to the President pro tempore of the Senate and the Speaker of the House of Representatives his written declaration that no inability exists, he shall resume the powers and duties of his office unless the Vice President and a majority of either the principal officers of the executive department or of such other body as Congress may by law provide, transmit within four days to the President pro tempore of the Senate and the Speaker of the House of Representatives their written declaration that the President is unable to discharge the powers and duties of his office. Thereupon Congress shall decide the issue, assembling within forty-eight hours for that purpose if not in session. If the Congress, within twenty-one days after receipt of the latter written declaration, or, if Congress is not in session, within twenty-one days after Congress is required to assemble, determines by two-thirds vote of both Houses that the President is unable to discharge the powers and duties of his office, the Vice President shall continue to discharge the same as Acting President; otherwise, the President shall resume the powers and duties of his office.

 

[Bottomfeeder Sports]

Just going to add this Wikipedia link to demonstrate that there are recognized issues with the current line of succession -

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_presidential_line_of_succession#Contemporary_issues_and_concerns

 

[Bottomfeeder Sports]

Checks And Balances and Separation Of Powers are concepts taught even in middle school.

Which is why legislators should be "last resort" in the line of succession.  And it shouldn't be that there is a concern of this actually happening-

The fact that, should a Cabinet member begin to act as president, the law allows the House to elect a new speaker (or the Senate to elect a new president pro tempore), who could in effect remove the Cabinet member and assume the office themselves at any time.

 

[Rich Conway]

I disagree with that first point. But, that's not the thread. No need for a long arrogant post that doesn't play the game offered.

The military needs to know the chain, so how do we do that and still keep your idea? 

The military needs to know the chain of command, but why the order of succession?  VP and Speaker of the House aren't currently in the chain of command, why would other successors need to be?

 

[IvanKaramazov]

I disagree with that first point. But, that's not the thread.

I take that as a hugely important part of fatguy's post, and I sort of agree with him.  It's not so much that it's "unfair" for a Speaker from one party to succeed a president and vice-president from the other party, because the rules are explicitly stated to everyone right up front.  It's more that I don't think the country would collectively recognize such a person as legitimate, and we absolutely need their legitimacy to be unquestioned when you consider that that person will be taking office during a national crisis.

 

[fatguyinalittlecoat]

It's more that I don't think the country would collectively recognize such a person as legitimate, and we absolutely need their legitimacy to be unquestioned when you consider that that person will be taking office during a national crisis.

Yeah this is a better way to put it.

 

[the moops]

It's more that I don't think the country would collectively recognize such a person as legitimate, and we absolutely need their legitimacy to be unquestioned when you consider that that person will be taking office during a national crisis.

Yeah this is a better way to put it.

It is frightening to imagine the conspiracy theories about assassination and such that would take hold if the speaker from the other party took over as president.

 

[Yankee23Fan]

The military needs to know the chain of command, but why the order of succession?  VP and Speaker of the House aren't currently in the chain of command, why would other successors need to be?

If the president does they know who to bring the nuclear codes to and who to take their orders from.  If the VP dies too,  same thing.  Under the proposition they wouldn't know if the top 2 die for some amount of time it takes to find the secret list. That's a functional problem. 

 

[Yankee23Fan]

I take that as a hugely important part of fatguy's post, and I sort of agree with him.  It's not so much that it's "unfair" for a Speaker from one party to succeed a president and vice-president from the other party, because the rules are explicitly stated to everyone right up front.  It's more that I don't think the country would collectively recognize such a person as legitimate, and we absolutely need their legitimacy to be unquestioned when you consider that that person will be taking office during a national crisis.

I think that your point is controlled by today's atmosphere, which is understandable. 

I don't see a functional problem with how the first few steps go.  But I'm playing along for the thread. 

 

[Yankee23Fan]

Yeah this is a better way to put it.

I guess the question is.... are we really there? Like really there not just thinking we are there because Twitter sucks.

Back to your hands though..... Cabinet is next in line by secret list...... someone not in the chain needs to have access to that..... give it to the Supreme Court? They have to swear in the new president anyway. 

 

[Toby2ElectricBugaloo]

So first of all, we need to amend the Constitution so that Speaker of the House and President Pro Tempore are out of the line of succession.  I feel very strongly about this for several reasons which I will now state.  First of all it would be really politically unfair if Kamala Harris and Biden both died at the same time  next year and suddenly Kevin McCarthy is President. And it’s also a huge assassination risk.  It’s very easy to imagine a wacko from either party trying to pull off a double murder to flip the party in the White House. Everyone in the line of succession should be from the same party.

But while we’re changing the Constitution anyway I think it would be even better if the President were to pick his own line of succession.  Why should the Secretary of State always be first? Some Secretaries of State might not make very good Presidents.

But this is how it should work because it would be fun. The line of succession comes entirely from the cabinet.  Every President lists the members of their cabinet from 1-15.  But the list is secret unless needed. You can’t go around embarrassing Cabinet members like that.  So nobody knows the rankings at the time. But the records become public years later and then we can all look at them and see, like, which cabinet members Trump liked the best and worst.

This is just a random thread it should sink to page 2 by sunset.

Love the rest, but strongly disagree on the bolded. Years later is boring. The picks should be revealed in a prime time special, a la Durant and LeBron picking their sides for the all-star game and explaining their choices. In fact we should have the president and vice president alternate picks while they mock each other and Charles Barkley mocks them both.

 

[Rich Conway]

If the president does they know who to bring the nuclear codes to and who to take their orders from.  If the VP dies too,  same thing.  Under the proposition they wouldn't know if the top 2 die for some amount of time it takes to find the secret list. That's a functional problem. 

Seems like a process issue that could be easily resolved.  The list is stored electronically somewhere, encrypted, and certain roles within government have access to it at any time.  Access is logged, of course, so people would know if those people accessed the list when they shouldn't have.

 

[Maurile Tremblay]

Your point is taken, but unfortunately GG has a rebuttal for his thesis that FGIALC didn't do his lawyering. Congress has the right to amend the line of succession. It's given by Article II of the Constitution, apparently. The 25th Amendment partially supersedes it, but I think the lower offices are still under the purview of Congress. 

The thread is predicated on amending the Constitution, so I don't think whatever it currently says is a meaningful constraint.

 

[Maurile Tremblay]

If the president does they know who to bring the nuclear codes to and who to take their orders from.  If the VP dies too,  same thing.  Under the proposition they wouldn't know if the top 2 die for some amount of time it takes to find the secret list. That's a functional problem. 

Military leaders are privy to certain information that isn't available to the public. I don't see why the presidential succession list can't be included in that.

 

[Maurile Tremblay]

It’s very easy to imagine a wacko from either party trying to pull off a double murder to flip the party in the White House. Everyone in the line of succession should be from the same party.

Writing the existence of political parties into the Constitution seems bad to me. I'm on board with letting the president choose his own line of succession. I wouldn't be on board with anything like "The Speaker of the House is next, unless she is a member of the opposite party, in which case let's make it the House Minority Leader instead."

 

[fatguyinalittlecoat]

Writing the existence of political parties into the Constitution seems bad to me. I'm on board with letting the president choose his own line of succession. I wouldn't be on board with anything like "The Speaker of the House is next, unless she is a member of the opposite party, in which case let's make it the House Minority Leader instead."

Agreed.  

 

[IvanKaramazov]

Writing the existence of political parties into the Constitution seems bad to me. I'm on board with letting the president choose his own line of succession. I wouldn't be on board with anything like "The Speaker of the House is next, unless she is a member of the opposite party, in which case let's make it the House Minority Leader instead."

I agree, but the problem with the line of succession as written is that it ignores the existence of political parties.  For better or for worse, they exist and people care about them a lot.  It made sense for the founders to ignore parties when they drafted the constitution, but I think it's absolutely essential that acknowledge their importance going forward.  

This was probably never the intention, of course, but today the line of succession kind of reeks of magical thinking, of the form "Wouldn't it be nice if people would set their party loyalties aside for the benefit of the country?"  That's a great sentiment, but it is legitimately dangerous to build mechanisms around wishful thinking.

(I think you and I probably agree.  Just riffing a bit.)

 

[GordonGekko]

So first of all, we need to amend the Constitution so that Speaker of the House and President Pro Tempore are out of the line of succession.  I feel very strongly about this for several reasons which I will now state.  First of all it would be really politically unfair if Kamala Harris and Biden both died at the same time  next year and suddenly Kevin McCarthy is President. And it’s also a huge assassination risk.  It’s very easy to imagine a wacko from either party trying to pull off a double murder to flip the party in the White House. Everyone in the line of succession should be from the same party.

But while we’re changing the Constitution anyway I think it would be even better if the President were to pick his own line of succession.  Why should the Secretary of State always be first? Some Secretaries of State might not make very good Presidents.

Direct Headline: How Donald Trump Could Become Speaker of the House Without Running for Office

Republican Representative Matt Gaetz of Florida reignited chatter of Trump becoming speaker of the House if Republicans reclaim the chamber in 2022 on Tuesday, telling reporters he's spoken with Trump about the possibility. Historically, the speaker of the House has been a member of Congress, but the majority party can pick whoever they want....So, theoretically, Republicans could choose to put Trump in the speaker's chair by a majority vote. However, Trump's been noncommittal on the idea and it's possible he wouldn't even want the position if it was offered to him....Trump told Real America's Voice host David Brody that becoming speaker of the House was not something "I would have considered." He acknowledged there was talk about him taking over the position and later told host Wayne Allyn Root that it's "very interesting."

By Jenni Fink On 12/9/21 at 10:17 AM EST

https://www.newsweek.com/how-donald-trump-could-become-speaker-house-without-running-office-1657764

Direct Headline:  DeSantis signs Florida's 15-week abortion ban into law

Florida Gov. Ron DeSantis signed into law on Thursday a Mississippi-style anti-abortion measure that bans the procedure after 15 weeks of pregnancy without exemptions for rape, incest or human trafficking.

By Steve Contorno, CNN Updated 1:26 PM ET, Thu April 14, 2022

https://www.cnn.com/2022/04/14/politics/desantis-signs-abortion-ban-florida/index.html

Direct Headline:  Nikki Haley Distances from Trump after Capitol Riot, Says GOP ‘Shouldn’t Have Followed Him’

“When I tell you I’m angry, it’s an understatement,” Haley told Politico. “Mike has been nothing but loyal to that man….I am so disappointed in the fact that [despite] the loyalty and friendship he had with Mike Pence, that he would do that to him. Like, I’m disgusted by it.”...Haley said at the time that she believed Trump would “find himself further and further isolated,” and unable to run for president again....“I think he’s lost any sort of political viability he was going to have,” Haley said. I think he’s lost his social media, which meant the world to him. I mean, I think he’s lost the things that really could have kept him moving.”...The former governor added, “We need to acknowledge [Trump] let us down….He went down a path he shouldn’t have, and we shouldn’t have followed him.”

Zachary Evans February 12, 2021·

https://www.yahoo.com/video/nikki-haley-distances-trump-capitol-190211306.html

*****

Practical three contenders for the RNC ticket in 2024 are Donald Trump, Ron DeSantis and Nikki Haley. Donald Trump might find some leeway with Elon Musk with the changeover in power at Twitter to get past that banning at some point. But he's lost all the other Big Social Media access points that got him billions in unpaid media coverage in 2016 and 2020 that both helped him and hurt him in those cycles. Trump has also lost many large scale donors, who have defected over to Haley, post 2020. Which is not a huge surprise, big business power hitters have their own special interests they want pushed forward, and when there is no Return On Investment after a massive cash/influence outlay for Trump in 2020 that failed, they aren't going to double down on betting on that horse again.

Trump has a severe problem of both platform ( even with Truth Social) and fundraising for a strong 2024 POTUS run. His odds of winning a "traditional" election back into POTUS is not facing great prospects.

Ron DeSantis signed into Florida law, a prohibition of abortions after the 15 week mark. This might be enough of a push/pull factor to lose the RNC ticket to Haley.

Haley previously denounced Trump in public after J6. This was actually the best long term political move she could make given the time and place. As Trump's political influence and star cratered, she wanted to appeal to more centrist Republicans and down the road also to Moderates, Independents and Undecideds.

In order to gain complete support of Trump, his endorsement and ease from "Orange/Man/Bad" attacking her during the primaries while running as direct competition, or choosing to run as an Independent in the 2024 general cycle as a spoiler, Nikki Haley offers him a deal of getting Speaker Of The House and a possible future full pardon for Ivanka Trump and/or Jared Kushner if it gets to that point.

Under FGIALC's premise with an actual Constitutional Amendment to support this, the sitting POTUS can pick their own line of succession. You don't need to be member of the HOR nor an elected official to be Speaker Of The House. Both impeachments of Trump went nowhere, certainly not enough to disbar him, at least for discussion for today, from future office. While the Democrats would fight that tooth and nail in the left leaning MSM and in the courts, there's a very real chance under this entire scenario where Haley picks Trump, the SOTH, as next in the line of succession over Dan Crenshaw, her likely VPOTUS running mate.

Someone here, likely a woke zealot, will start shouting about the 22nd and the 25th and on and on and on, but some of you guys wanted "new rules" to the game". Who says the 25th and 22nd will even apply any more after this new hypothetical Constitutional Amendment.

Then POTUS Nikki Haley, as FGIALC points out, could be subject to death from natural causes or some kind of assassination. Maybe even the end product of some kind of "Trumpian" level conspiracy!

NOW DONALD TRUMP IS BACK IN AS PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES.

And if the 22nd might be out of play, then what's to say Trump couldn't run again in 2028.

Some of you woke radical leftist zealots here have found a way to keep up the relentless partisan cooking, to fulfill some blood lust and pure tribalism over defense of the actual Republic, until The Big Cheeto is back in the Oval Office. If you want "new rules to the game" are you prepared for ALL POSSIBLE OUTCOMES when you do that?

 

[the moops]

It's just a hypothetical and an interesting topic to discuss. No need to go all "woke radical leftist zealot" on us all. 

 

[GordonGekko]

I guess the question is.... are we really there? Like really there not just thinking we are there because Twitter sucks.

Back to your hands though..... Cabinet is next in line by secret list...... someone not in the chain needs to have access to that..... give it to the Supreme Court? They have to swear in the new president anyway. 

Slaughterhouse Cases, 83 U.S. 16 Wall. 36 36 (1872)

https://supreme.justia.com/cases/federal/us/83/36/

How useful, as of current times, is the Privileges and Immunities clause of the Fourteenth Amendment to the U.S. Constitution?

This is Basic Law 101.

OK, let's run the scenario that the current Democratic Party, where Biden, shaking hands with empty air around him while going into bouts of whispering and sniffing hair, and Kamala Harris, self destructing any time anyone asks her apparently any question at all with a camera in her face, are supposedly running it, could push through and even ratify this bizarre ridiculous Constitutional Amendment proposal. Let's also avoid the issue that the general public, on both sides of the aisle, would be up in arms, and everyone in Congress would have to think very hard about how they can hold onto their seats while supporting a "secret list" of lines of succession for POTUS. ( How does that sell to the American people?  "It's a Mystery Box, like the TV show Lost, you just won't know whom might have tactical command of America's vast nuclear arsenal tomorrow!" )

Did you ever stop to ask yourself what SCOTUS would do? They would want nothing to do with this kind of woke partisan madness. They would carve up the Amendment until it was essentially non functional. Do you think any of them would want their legal legacy to carry some "secret list" BS?

You've actually said you want Clarence Thomas to resign from SCOTUS over some social media messages from Virginia Lamb Thomas in another thread. ( Whiskey Tango Foxtrot....) Now you want to support secret lists to incinerate our entire Republic from the inside just to make sure Kevin McCarthy can't possible threaten your tribalism.

You're an activist that doesn't seem to understand practical and fundamental law. And also a lawyer that doesn't seem to understand practical and fundamental activism. I can't quite tell at the moment which is the bigger tragedy.

 

[GordonGekko]

It's just a hypothetical and an interesting topic to discuss. No need to go all "woke radical leftist zealot" on us all. 

What I find the most interesting is that you have this thread full of many people whom have spent a lot of time in the PSF listing out the horrors and evils of Donald Trump and his clear and present threat to freedom, our democracy and any hope for the future, then they come together and concoct a scenario that is egregiously tribalistic without gaming out the actual possible consequences they didn't intend, that actually creates a smooth back door for Trump to become President Of The United States again.

Here's a crazy idea. If a political Party wants a better line of succession and better quality elected officials, then do a better job of picking and developing and nurturing those kind of candidates.

Do a better job of meeting the needs of the every day working class American citizen and deliver wins for them and then they'll vote for you. And if you keep doing it right across scale, you'll keep winning elections across the board and you'll have the majorities you need to get your policies into place and become reality.

If Kevin McCarthy becomes the new Speaker Of The House and climbs into the top of the line of succession, it's because the Democrats lost so many down the ticket elections to make that happen. You don't lose those elections if you consistently out perform all expectations that the American public has for your Party regarding functional governance.

Delivering for the American people should be the priority over finding new cooked bizarre ways to attack Conservatives and Republicans.

 

[sho nuff]

It's just a hypothetical and an interesting topic to discuss. No need to go all "woke radical leftist zealot" on us all. 

Why would this thread be different than any other?

 

[the moops]

Here's a crazy idea. If a political Party wants a better line of succession and better quality elected officials, then do a better job of picking and developing and nurturing those kind of candidates.

There isn't a political party that wants a better line of succession. There is our good buddy @fatguyinalittlecoat who does.

 

[GordonGekko]

There isn't a political party that wants a better line of succession. There is our good buddy @fatguyinalittlecoat who does.

No one needs to be elected to office to become Speaker Of The House. There is no current Constitutional requirement for the SOTH to be a current active member of the House Of Representatives. What's been fortunate so far is the SOTH position has always been filled with a member of the HOR.

In order to become POTUS in a traditional format, you need to either win the RNC or DNC ticket. People vote for you or they don't. The American people have a voice. That candidate then picks a VPOTUS running mate. And while the American people don't get a say in that selection, they either affirm or deny that selection in the general election cycle. Trump didn't have to pick Pence, Biden didn't have to pick Harris, but the American people still had a voice regarding the entire "joint ticket" with their votes.

What FGILC wants is to bypass the existing Constitution and potentially bypass the "voice" that is implied with the votes of the American people.

Run the scenario out. Let's say Trump wins 2024 POTUS. ( I don't see it happening, but let's run the hypothetical) If he has power to determine his "line of succession" via this bizarre ridiculous Amendment proposal, and since so many radical leftists in this thread have said before over and over that the entire Republican Party is so slavishly devoted to MAGA and the Cult Of The Big Cheeto and vote dogmatically to his whims, then it would be slam dunk for

1) Ivanka Trump or Jared Kushner to be named Speaker Of The House. ( Someone not elected to office)

Or

2) Marjorie Taylor Greene to be named Speaker Of The House ( Someone actually elected to office but will be universally seen as the worst possible future POTUS)

Trump is currently 75 and will be near pushing 78 by Election Day in 2024. Does he look like he takes care of his health? Do you see him doing kettle bell work on the side or doing some Muay Thai to stay sharp on the weekends? Do you see him eating a raw foods diet or counting his calories while Intermittent Fasting or focusing on only quality organic food? What happens if Trump dies? People at that age die all the time of natural causes. Or as FGIALC points out, there is a hypothetical assassination ( And let's be honest, lots of people out there hate Trump enough to probably try it)

How does a fast unhindered pathway that makes it easy for a gutless level grifter like Jared Kushner or someone universally despised like MTG to become President Of The United States create a "better line of succession"?

FGIALC says the line of succession should come from the "same Party"  Sure, you can have that if you want, YOU JUST NEED TO KEEP WINNING ELECTIONS AND DO IT ACROSS SCALE WHERE YOU ACTUALLY HAVE TO DELIVER FOR THE AMERICAN PEOPLE AT LARGE AND BE BEHOLDEN TO THEIR VOTE AND POLITICAL VOICE.

(Wow, that almost sounds like an actual democracy at work.)

FGIALC wants the fruits of victory by changing the rules, without regard to the long term impact to our Republic and the actual law, because it's just too damn hard to do the grind to punch out real wins?

Something I said all the way back in 2006, if you consistently deliver big wins and do it long enough, you'll get all the things you say you want. Politics, wealth, power, women, fancy toys, your own cult, whatever. It's a life concept, not just one for politics.

So the Republic needs to burn because FGIALC, the Biden Administration and the current Democratic Party can't punch out enough real wins on their own. How repugnant is that. That's just pitiful. My viewpoint is that it's completely inept and pathetic. The radical left apparently just sees it as another Wednesday.

 

[Yankee23Fan]

I agree, but the problem with the line of succession as written is that it ignores the existence of political parties.  For better or for worse, they exist and people care about them a lot.  It made sense for the founders to ignore parties when they drafted the constitution, but I think it's absolutely essential that acknowledge their importance going forward.  

This was probably never the intention, of course, but today the line of succession kind of reeks of magical thinking, of the form "Wouldn't it be nice if people would set their party loyalties aside for the benefit of the country?"  That's a great sentiment, but it is legitimately dangerous to build mechanisms around wishful thinking.

(I think you and I probably agree.  Just riffing a bit.)

Could extend the hypo and argue that a snap election might be better long term....maybe? 

I like the idea of a snap election in theory sometimes....just call a federal election because [gestures wildly] this #### is ####ed up.

 

[roadkill1292]

Could extend the hypo and argue that a snap election might be better long term....maybe? 

I like the idea of a snap election in theory sometimes....just call a federal election because [gestures wildly] this #### is ####ed up.

After every election, hold a random drawing for the next date (within a reasonable time span). Give the result to someone like the Chief Justice, who is obligated to keep it secret until four weeks prior to the date.

Wa la!