Pro Football Hall of Fame announces nominees for 2013 class (1 Viewer)

[Faust]

Pro Football Hall of Fame announces nominees for 2013 class

Associated Press

CANTON, Ohio -- John Lynch, Michael Strahan, Steve McNair and Morten Andersen are among 13 first-year eligible players for the Pro Football Hall of Fame.

Safety Lynch, defensive end Strahan, quarterback McNair and kicker Andersen join offensive linemen Jonathan Ogden and Larry Allen, defensive tackle Warren Sapp and 121 other total nominees for induction. The list will be whittled to 25 semifinalists in late November.

Fifteen finalists from the modern era will be announced in early January, with elections taking place Feb. 2, 2013, the day before the Super Bowl.

Between four and seven new members will be selected, with inductions next August.

Other first-time nominees are running back Priest Holmes, wide receiver Keenan McCardell, center Tom Nalen, defensive tackles Sam Adams and Ted Washington and defensive end Bryant Young.

Among the contributors nominated are former NFL Commissioner Paul Tagliabue and longtime team owners Bud Adams of the Tennessee Titans and Robert Kraft of the New England Patriots. Former Cleveland Browns and Baltimore Ravens owner Art Modell, who died this month, also is a nominee.

Other holdover nominees include receivers Cris Carter, Andre Reed and Tim Brown, running back Jerome Bettis, guard Will Shields, defensive end Charles Haley, linebacker Kevin Greene and defensive back Aeneas Williams, all finalists for the 2012 class.

 

[Irish Chaos]

Pro Football Hall of Fame announces nominees for 2013 class

Associated Press

CANTON, Ohio -- John Lynch, Michael Strahan, Steve McNair and Morten Andersen are among 13 first-year eligible players for the Pro Football Hall of Fame.

Safety Lynch, defensive end Strahan, quarterback McNair and kicker Andersen join offensive linemen Jonathan Ogden and Larry Allen, defensive tackle Warren Sapp and 121 other total nominees for induction. The list will be whittled to 25 semifinalists in late November.

Fifteen finalists from the modern era will be announced in early January, with elections taking place Feb. 2, 2013, the day before the Super Bowl.

Between four and seven new members will be selected, with inductions next August.

Other first-time nominees are running back Priest Holmes, wide receiver Keenan McCardell, center Tom Nalen, defensive tackles Sam Adams and Ted Washington and defensive end Bryant Young.

Among the contributors nominated are former NFL Commissioner Paul Tagliabue and longtime team owners Bud Adams of the Tennessee Titans and Robert Kraft of the New England Patriots. Former Cleveland Browns and Baltimore Ravens owner Art Modell, who died this month, also is a nominee.

Other holdover nominees include receivers Cris Carter, Andre Reed and Tim Brown, running back Jerome Bettis, guard Will Shields, defensive end Charles Haley, linebacker Kevin Greene and defensive back Aeneas Williams, all finalists for the 2012 class.

Idont know,when I saw Priest's name I was like ehhhh...dont think he ever belongs. Now I have to look up his stats. I know he had 2 good year but I have to see for myself...ill be back.

 

[biju]

I'd like to see Kenny Easley in the HOF, but I don't know if that's ever going to happen.

 

[flranger]

I think the following get in:

Strahan

Ogden

Sapp

C Carter

Parcells

Everyone else can keep waiting.

 

[spider321]

I wish they'd stop putting so many friggin guys in.

1 per year, maximum, would be nice.

 

[CalBear]

Holmes: Fantasy Hall of Fame, but I don't think he has much of a chance in the Pro Football Hall of Fame. TD's peak was higher and Holmes never even won a playoff game (unless you count change-of-pace back duty in Baltimore).

Lynch: Booooo (Stanford). Seems like an outside shot as a safety; he does have two All-Pros to go with 9 Pro Bowls, but not big defensive stats. Was a major part of a few great Tampa defenses including a Super Bowl winner. I don't think he makes it this year.

Strahan: Very good chance; top 5 in career sacks, ahead of five modern Hall of Famers. Four All-Pros. Entire career with one team, in New York, makes it very likely. Possibly first ballot.

McNair: No.

Morten Andersen: Didn't play football.

Art Modell: Too much bad blood.

 

[flysack]

Ogden and Strahan are the only first-ballot ins.

Chris Carter might make in this year due to a weak first year eligible class. I'd like to see The Bus get in too, but I doubt it happens now.

 

[flranger]

QUARTERBACKS

First-year eligible

Hall of Fame bylaws require that a player or a coach must have last been active at at least five full seasons before being eligible for consideration. There are 13 individuals among the 2013 modern-era nominees who are eligible for the first time.

Sam Adams, DT

Larry Allen, G

Morten Andersen, K

Priest Holmes, RB

John Lynch, S

Keenan McCardell, WR

Steve McNair, QB

Tom Nalen, C

Jonathan Ogden, T

Warren Sapp, DT

Michael Strahan, DE

Ted Washington, DT/NT

Bryant Young, DE

DREW BLEDSOE – 1993-2001 New England Patriots, 2002-04 Buffalo Bills, 2005-06 Dallas Cowboys

RANDALL CUNNINGHAM – 1985-1995 Philadelphia Eagles, 1997-99 Minnesota Vikings, 2000 Dallas Cowboys, 2001 Baltimore Ravens

RON JAWORSKI – 1974-76 Los Angeles Rams, 1977-1986 Philadelphia Eagles, 1988 Miami Dolphins, 1989 Kansas City Chiefs

NEIL LOMAX – 1981-88 St. Louis/Phoenix Cardinals

*STEVE McNAIR – 1995-2005 Houston/Tennessee Oilers/Titans, 2006-07 Baltimore Ravens

PHIL SIMMS – 1979-1993 New York Giants, injured-1982

DANNY WHITE (also P) – 1976-1988 Dallas Cowboys

RUNNING BACKS

JAMAL ANDERSON – 1994-2001 Atlanta Falcons

OTTIS ANDERSON – 1979-1986 St. Louis Cardinals, 1986-1992 New York Giants

TIKI BARBER – 1997-2006 New York Giants

^JEROME BETTIS – 1993-95 Los Angeles/St. Louis Rams, 1996-2005 Pittsburgh Steelers

LARRY CENTERS – 1990-98 Phoenix/Arizona Cardinals, 1999-2000 Washington Redskins, 2001-02 Buffalo Bills, 2003 New England Patriots

^ROGER CRAIG – 1983-1990 San Francisco 49ers, 1991 Los Angeles Raiders, 1992-93 Minnesota Vikings

STEPHEN DAVIS – 1996-2002 Washington Redskins, 2003-05 Carolina Panthers, 2006 St. Louis Rams

TERRELL DAVIS – 1995-2001 Denver Broncos

EDDIE GEORGE – 1996-2003 Houston/Tennessee Oilers/Titans, 2004 Dallas Cowboys

*PRIEST HOLMES – 1997-2000 Baltimore Ravens, 2001-05, 2007 Kansas City Chiefs

BRIAN MITCHELL (also PR/KR) – 1990-99 Washington Redskins, 2000-02 Philadelphia Eagles, 2003 New York Giants

GERALD RIGGS – 1982-88 Atlanta Falcons, 1989-1991 Washington Redskins

HERSCHEL WALKER – 1986-89 Dallas Cowboys, 1989-1991 Minnesota Vikings, 1992-94 Philadelphia Eagles, 1995 New York Giants, 1996-97 Dallas Cowboys

RICKY WATTERS – 1992-94 San Francisco 49ers, 1995-97 Philadelphia Eagles, 1998-2001 Seattle Seahawks

WIDE RECEIVERS

^TIM BROWN (also KR) – 1988-2003 Los Angeles/Oakland Raiders, 2004 Tampa Bay Buccaneers

^CRIS CARTER – 1987-89 Philadelphia Eagles, 1990-2001 Minnesota Vikings, 2002 Miami Dolphins

GARY CLARK – 1985-1992 Washington Redskins, 1993-94 Phoenix/Arizona Cardinals, 1995 Miami Dolphins

MARK CLAYTON – 1983-1992 Miami Dolphins, 1993 Green Bay Packers

HENRY ELLARD (also PR) – 1983-1993 Los Angeles Rams, 1994-98 Washington Redskins, 1998 New England Patriots

KEYSHAWN JOHNSON – 1996-99 New York Jets; 2000-03 Tampa Bay Buccaneers; 2004-05 Dallas Cowboys, 2006 Carolina Panthers

*KEENAN McCARDELL – 1991, 2007 Washington Redskins, 1992-95 Cleveland Browns, 1996-2001 Jacksonville Jaguars, 2002-03 Tampa Bay Buccaneers, 2004-06 San Diego Chargers

STANLEY MORGAN – 1977-1989 New England Patriots, 1990 Indianapolis Colts

^ANDRE REED – 1985-1999 Buffalo Bills, 2000 Washington Redskins

STERLING SHARPE – 1988-1994 Green Bay Packers

JIMMY SMITH – 1992 Dallas Cowboys, 1995-2005 Jacksonville Jaguars

ROD SMITH – 1995-2006 Denver Broncos

TIGHT ENDS

TODD CHRISTENSEN – 1979 New York Giants, 1979-1988 Oakland/Los Angeles Raiders

BEN COATES – 1991-99 New England Patriots, 2000 Baltimore Ravens

OFFENSIVE LINEMEN

*LARRY ALLEN (G) – 1994-2005 Dallas Cowboys, 2006-07 San Francisco 49ers

TONY BOSELLI (T) – 1995-2001 Jacksonville Jaguars, 2002 Houston Texans (injured reserve)

LOMAS BROWN (T) – 1985-1995 Detroit Lions, 1996-98 Arizona Cardinals, 1999 Cleveland Browns, 2000-01 New York Giants, 2002 Tampa Bay Buccaneers

JIM COVERT (T) – 1983-1990 Chicago Bears

JOE FIELDS © – 1975-1987 New York Jets, 1988 New York Giants

BILL FRALIC (G/T) – 1985-1992 Atlanta Falcons, 1993 Detroit Lions

JEFF HARTINGS (G/C) – 1996-2000 Detroit Lions, 2001-2006 Pittsburgh Steelers

JAY HILGENBERG © – 1981-1991 Chicago Bears, 1992 Cleveland Browns, 1993 New Orleans Saints

CHRIS HINTON (G/T) – 1983-89 Baltimore/Indianapolis Colts, 1990-93 Atlanta Falcons, 1994-95 Minnesota Vikings

KENT HULL © – 1986-1996 Buffalo Bills

JOE JACOBY (T) – 1981-1993 Washington Redskins

MIKE KENN (T) – 1978-1994 Atlanta Falcons

JIM LACHEY (T) – 1985-87 San Diego Chargers, 1988 Los Angeles Raiders, 1988-1992, 1994-95 Washington Redskins

*TOM NALEN © – 1994-2007 Denver Broncos

*JONATHAN OGDEN (T) – 1996-2007 Baltimore Ravens

WILL SHIELDS (G) – 1993-2006 Kansas City Chiefs

ERIK WILLIAMS (T) – 1991-2000 Dallas Cowboys, 2001 Baltimore Ravens

STEVE WISNIEWSKI (G) – 1989-2001 Los Angeles/Oakland Raiders

DEFENSIVE LINEMEN

*SAM ADAMS (DT) – 1994-99 Seattle Seahawks, 2000-01 Baltimore Ravens, 2002 Oakland Raiders, 2003-05 Buffalo Bills, 2006 Cincinnati Bengals, 2007 Denver Broncos

CARL HAIRSTON (DE/DT) – 1976-1983 Philadelphia Eagles, 1984-89 Cleveland Browns, 1990 Phoenix Cardinals

^CHARLES HALEY (DE/LB) – 1986-1991, 1999 San Francisco 49ers, 1992-96 Dallas Cowboys

ED “TOO TALL” JONES (DE) – 1974-78, 1980-89 Dallas Cowboys

JOE KLECKO (DE/DT/NT) – 1977-1987 New York Jets, 1988 Indianapolis Colts

DEXTER MANLEY (DE) – 1981-89 Washington Redskins, 1990 Phoenix Cardinals, 1991 Tampa Bay Buccaneers

CHARLES MANN (DE) – 1983-1993 Washington Redskins, 1994 San Francisco 49ers

*WARREN SAPP (DT) – 1995-2003 Tampa Bay Buccaneers, 2004-07 Oakland Raiders

FRED SMERLAS (NT) – 1979-1989 Buffalo Bills, 1990 San Francisco 49ers, 1991-92 New England Patriots

*MICHAEL STRAHAN (DE) – 1993-2007 New York Giants

*TED WASHINGTON (DT/NT) – 1991-93 San Francisco 49ers, 1994 Denver Broncos, 1995-2000 Buffalo Bills, 2001-02 Chicago Bears, 2003 New England Patriots, 2004-05 Oakland Raiders, 2006-07 Cleveland Browns

*BRYANT YOUNG (DE) – 1994-2007 San Francisco 49ers

LINEBACKERS

CORNELIUS BENNETT – 1987-1995 Buffalo Bills, 1996-98 Atlanta Falcons, 1999-2000 Indianapolis Colts

^KEVIN GREENE (also DE) – 1985-1992 Los Angeles Rams, 1993-95 Pittsburgh Steelers, 1996, 1998-99 Carolina Panthers, 1997 San Francisco 49ers

KEN HARVEY – 1988-1993 Phoenix Cardinals, 1994-98 Washington Redskins

CLAY MATTHEWS – 1978-1993 Cleveland Browns, 1994-96 Atlanta Falcons

KARL MECKLENBURG – 1983-1994 Denver Broncos

SAM MILLS – 1986-1994 New Orleans Saints, 1995-97 Carolina Panthers

DARRYL TALLEY – 1983-1994 Buffalo Bills, 1995 Atlanta Falcons, 1996 Minnesota Vikings

DEFENSIVE BACKS

ERIC ALLEN (CB) – 1988-1994 Philadelphia Eagles, 1995-97 New Orleans Saints, 1998-2001 Oakland Raiders

STEVE ATWATER (S) – 1989-1998 Denver Broncos, 1999 New York Jets

JOEY BROWNER (S) – 1983-1991 Minnesota Vikings, 1992 Tampa Bay Buccaneers

LEROY BUTLER (S) – 1990-2001 Green Bay Packers

NOLAN CROMWELL (S) – 1977-1987 Los Angeles Rams

ALBERT LEWIS (CB) – 1983-1993 Kansas City Chiefs, 1994-98 Los Angeles/Oakland Raiders

*JOHN LYNCH (S) – 1993-2003 Tampa Bay Buccaneers, 2004-07 Denver Broncos

DENNIS SMITH (S) – 1981-1994 Denver Broncos

TROY VINCENT (CB – 1992-95 Miami Dolphins, 1996-2003 Philadelphia Eagles, 2004-06 Buffalo Bills, 2006 Washington Redskins

EVERSON WALLS (CB) – 1981-89 Dallas Cowboys, 1990-92 New York Giants, 1992-93 Cleveland Browns

^AENEAS WILLIAMS (CB/S) – 1991-2000 Phoenix/Arizona Cardinals, 2001-04 St. Louis Rams

DARREN WOODSON (S) – 1992-2003 Dallas Cowboys

KICKERS/PUNTERS

*MORTEN ANDERSEN (K) – 1982-1994 New Orleans Saints, 1995-2000, 2006-07 Atlanta Falcons, 2001 New York Giants, 2002-03 Kansas City Chiefs, 2004 Minnesota Vikings

GARY ANDERSON (K) – 1982-1994 Pittsburgh Steelers, 1995-96 Philadelphia Eagles, 1997 San Francisco 49ers, 1998-2002 Minnesota Vikings, 2003-04 Tennessee Titans

SEAN LANDETA (P) – 1985-1993 New York Giants, 1993-96, 2003-04 Los Angeles/St. Louis Rams, 1997 Tampa Bay Buccaneers, 1998 Green Bay Packers, 1999-2002, 2005 Philadelphia Eagles

NICK LOWERY (K) – 1978 New England Patriots, 1980-1993 Kansas City Chiefs, 1994-96 New York Jets

SPECIAL TEAMS

STEVE TASKER (also WR) – 1985-86 Houston Oilers, 1986-1997 Buffalo Bills

COACHES

BILL ARNSPARGER – 1964-69 Baltimore Colts, 1970-73, 1976-1983 Miami Dolphins, 1974-76 New York Giants

DOUG BLEVINS – 1995-97, 1999 World League/NFL Europe, 1997-2003 Miami Dolphins

BUD CARSON – 1971-77 Pittsburgh Steelers, 1978-81, 1997 Los Angeles/St. Louis Rams, 1982 Baltimore Colts, 1983 Kansas City Chiefs, 1985-88 New York Jets, 1989-1990 Cleveland Browns, 1991-94 Philadelphia Eagles

^DON CORYELL – 1973-77 St. Louis Cardinals, 1978-1986 San Diego Chargers

BILL COWHER – 1992-2006 Pittsburgh Steelers

TOM FLORES – 1979-1987 Oakland/Los Angeles Raiders, 1992-94 Seattle Seahawks

JIMMY JOHNSON – 1989-1993 Dallas Cowboys, 1996-99 Miami Dolphins

CHUCK KNOX – 1973-77 Los Angeles Rams, 1978-1982 Buffalo Bills, 1983-1991 Seattle Seahawks, 1992-94 Los Angeles Rams

^BILL PARCELLS – 1983-1990 New York Giants, 1993-96 New England Patriots, 1997-99 New York Jets, 2003-06 Dallas Cowboys

BUDDY PARKER – 1949 Chicago Cardinals, 1951-56 Detroit Lions, 1957-1964 Pittsburgh Steelers

DAN REEVES – 1981-1992 Denver Broncos, 1993-96 New York Giants, 1997-2003 Atlanta Falcons

MARTY SCHOTTENHEIMER – 1984-88 Cleveland Browns, 1989-1998 Kansas City Chiefs, 2001 Washington Redskins, 2002-06 San Diego Chargers

CLARK SHAUGHNESSY – 1944-47 Washington Redskins, 1948-49 Los Angeles Rams, 1951-1962 Chicago Bears

**** VERMEIL – 1976-1982 Philadelphia Eagles, 1997-99 St. Louis Rams, 2001-05 Kansas City Chiefs

CONTRIBUTORS

K.S. “BUD” ADAMS, JR. (Founder/Owner) – 1960-Present Houston Oilers/Tennessee Oilers/Titans

GEORGE ANDERSON (Trainer) – 1960-1993 Oakland/Los Angeles Raiders

BOBBY BEATHARD (Admin.) – 1966-67 Kansas City Chiefs, 1968-1971 Atlanta Falcons, 1972-77 Miami Dolphins, 1978-1988 Washington Redskins, 1990-99 San Diego Chargers

GIL BRANDT (Admin.) – 1960-1988 Dallas Cowboys, 1995-present National Football League

C.O. BROCATO (Scout) – 1974-76, 1981-present Houston Oilers/Tennessee Oilers/Tennessee Titans

LEO CARLIN (Admin.) – 1960-Present Philadelphia Eagles

JACK KENT COOKE (Owner) – 1974-1997 Washington Redskins

OTHO DAVIS (Trainer) – 1971-72 Baltimore Colts, 1973-1995 Philadelphia Eagles

^ED DeBARTOLO, JR. (Owner) – 1979-2000 San Francisco 49ers

RON GIBBS (Official) – 1940-1962 National Football League

RALPH KOHL (Scout) – 1978-1992 Minnesota Vikings

EDDIE KOTAL (Admin.) – 1947-1961 Los Angeles Rams

ROBERT KRAFT (Owner) – 1994-Present New England Patriots

ART McNALLY (Official) – 1968-Present National Football League

^ART MODELL (Owner) – 1961-1995 Cleveland Browns, 1996-2011 Baltimore Ravens

BILL POLIAN (Admin.) – 1978-1982 Kansas City Chiefs, 1984-1992 Buffalo Bills, 1993-94 National Football League, 1995-97 Carolina Panthers, 1998-2011 Indianapolis Colts

ART ROONEY, JR. (Admin.) – 1961-Present Pittsburgh Steelers

STEVE SABOL (Contrib.) – 1964-2012 NFL Films

CARL STORCK (Owner/Coach/Admin.) – 1918-1930 Dayton Triangles, 1930-1941 National Football League

^PAUL TAGLIABUE (Commissioner) – 1989-2006 National Football League

BURL TOLER, SR. (Official) – 1965-1989 National Football League

JIM TUNNEY (Official) – 1960-1991 National Football League

RON WOLF (Admin.) – 1991-2001 Green Bay Packers

^GEORGE YOUNG (Admin.) – 1968-1974 Baltimore Colts, 1975-78 Miami Dolphins, 1979-1997 New York Giants, 1998-2001 National Football League

 

[Tau837]

Larry Allen

Warren Sapp

Michael Strahan

Aeneas Williams

Bill Parcells

Very strong group IMO.

 

[Chase Stuart]

Larry AllenWarren SappMichael StrahanAeneas WilliamsBill ParcellsVery strong group IMO.

I can't imagine Will Shields doesn't get in this year. I think Ogden is also a first-ballot kind of player.

 

[Ted Lange as your Bartender]

Very very minor quibble, and I know it will never happen. but this is the PRO FOOTBALL Hall of Fame, not the NFL Hall of Fame. The players who spent time in the USFL should have those years be recognized too. For example, Gary Clark didn't start his pro career with the Redskins in 1985, it was with the Jacksonville Bulls in 1984. Same with Herschel Walker and Sean Landeta among others.

:end of soapbox rant:

 

[SSOG]

Top at each position:

QB- Nobody deserves to sniff Canton

RB- Terrell Davis and Tiki Barber (in that order) are the only ones I'd even consider.

WR- Carter and Brown deserve to make it at some point. No one else stands out.

TE- nope

OL- Allen, Shields, Nalen, and Ogden are guys I'd like to see get in eventually. In that order.

DL- Sapp and Strahan are the top two names in the entire class, IMO. A couple other names have a case, but I'm not the one to make it.

LB- I'd love to see Mills make it. Some other interesting names, but no serious contenders unless NFL does something about the backlog of deserving candidates.

DB- Aeneas Williams. The safeties are too similar for one to really stand out, but I'd be okay with one or two getting through. Just not Lynch.

K/P- nope

ST- total freaking joke. If you want to elect someone for special teams, get Upchurch or wait for Hester.

Coach- Parcells. Second place goes to Schotty, but it's a distant second, and the hall would never elect someone with his reputation. Not fair, but that's how it is.

Contributor- Sabol is literally the only guy I'd be fine giving up a player spot to induct. Otherwise, it's stupid that contributors get in at the expense of players.

That's 15 names. Here's roughly how I'd rank them, assuming I was a hall voter (I.e. this is a "should" list, not a "will" list)

1- Strahan

2- Sapp

3- Larry Allen

4- Aeneas Williams

5- Bill Parcells

6- Terrell Davis

7- Cris Carter

8- Will Shields

9- Steve Sabol

10- Sam Mills

11- Tim Brown

12- Tom Nalen

13- Jon Ogden

14- Tiki Barber

15- Marty Schottenheimer

 

[SSOG]

Larry AllenWarren SappMichael StrahanAeneas WilliamsBill ParcellsVery strong group IMO.

I can't imagine Will Shields doesn't get in this year. I think Ogden is also a first-ballot kind of player.

I think JWB is posting "should" and you're posting "will".

 

[Tau837]

Larry AllenWarren SappMichael StrahanAeneas WilliamsBill ParcellsVery strong group IMO.

I can't imagine Will Shields doesn't get in this year. I think Ogden is also a first-ballot kind of player.

Interested to hear your rationale. I have posted a number of times in this forum that I find it difficult to rank top OL. For example, consider All Pro selections:Shields was 1st team All Pro 2 times and 2nd team All Pro 4 timesOgden was 1st team All Pro 4 times and 2nd team All Pro 5 timesAllen was 1st team All Pro 6 times and 2nd team All Pro 1 timeYou seem to suggest that Shields is a nobrainer, but this metric makes him look the least worthy among these three OL.And which of the candidates I listed would you bump for Shields and/or Ogden, and why?

 

[RUSF18]

Looking like a pretty good year for Mr. Strahan.

 

[Tau837]

DB- Aeneas Williams. The safeties are too similar for one to really stand out, but I'd be okay with one or two getting through. Just not Lynch.

ST- total freaking joke. If you want to elect someone for special teams, get Upchurch or wait for Hester.

Agree on the joke part. Why do you mention Upchurch and Hester, though? Neither one of them is close to deserving.

Here's roughly how I'd rank them, assuming I was a hall voter (I.e. this is a "should" list, not a "will" list)1- Strahan2- Sapp3- Larry Allen4- Aeneas Williams5- Bill Parcells

 

[Tau837]

Larry AllenWarren SappMichael StrahanAeneas WilliamsBill ParcellsVery strong group IMO.

I can't imagine Will Shields doesn't get in this year. I think Ogden is also a first-ballot kind of player.

I think JWB is posting "should" and you're posting "will".

To be clear, I posted who I would vote for, which is who I think should get in.

 

[N Zone]

Top at each position:QB- Nobody deserves to sniff CantonRB- Terrell Davis and Tiki Barber (in that order) are the only ones I'd even consider.WR- Carter and Brown deserve to make it at some point. No one else stands out. TE- nopeOL- Allen, Shields, Nalen, and Ogden are guys I'd like to see get in eventually. In that order.DL- Sapp and Strahan are the top two names in the entire class, IMO. A couple other names have a case, but I'm not the one to make it. LB- I'd love to see Mills make it. Some other interesting names, but no serious contenders unless NFL does something about the backlog of deserving candidates. DB- Aeneas Williams. The safeties are too similar for one to really stand out, but I'd be okay with one or two getting through. Just not Lynch. K/P- nopeST- total freaking joke. If you want to elect someone for special teams, get Upchurch or wait for Hester. Coach- Parcells. Second place goes to Schotty, but it's a distant second, and the hall would never elect someone with his reputation. Not fair, but that's how it is. Contributor- Sabol is literally the only guy I'd be fine giving up a player spot to induct. Otherwise, it's stupid that contributors get in at the expense of players. That's 15 names. Here's roughly how I'd rank them, assuming I was a hall voter (I.e. this is a "should" list, not a "will" list)1- Strahan2- Sapp3- Larry Allen4- Aeneas Williams5- Bill Parcells6- Terrell Davis7- Cris Carter8- Will Shields9- Steve Sabol10- Sam Mills11- Tim Brown12- Tom Nalen13- Jon Ogden14- Tiki Barber15- Marty Schottenheimer

That's a very reasonable list.

 

[Ministry of Pain]

Sapp and Strahan hands down, after that you can all fight about the other 3-4 that belong. These 2 were definitely the best at their position for many years.

Sapp was 7 straight Pro Bowls, 4 straight All Pro, 1 SB ring,

Strahan 7 Pro Bowls, 4 All Pros, 1 SB ring

 

[5Rings]

I wish they'd stop putting so many friggin guys in.1 per year, maximum, would be nice.

Amen. Too many "very goods" getting in. The Art monks have tarnished Cantons legacy.Sapp vs. Ogden this year.

 

[Chase Stuart]

Larry AllenWarren SappMichael StrahanAeneas WilliamsBill ParcellsVery strong group IMO.

I can't imagine Will Shields doesn't get in this year. I think Ogden is also a first-ballot kind of player.

Interested to hear your rationale. I have posted a number of times in this forum that I find it difficult to rank top OL. For example, consider All Pro selections:Shields was 1st team All Pro 2 times and 2nd team All Pro 4 timesOgden was 1st team All Pro 4 times and 2nd team All Pro 5 timesAllen was 1st team All Pro 6 times and 2nd team All Pro 1 timeYou seem to suggest that Shields is a nobrainer, but this metric makes him look the least worthy among these three OL.And which of the candidates I listed would you bump for Shields and/or Ogden, and why?

Shields made 12 Pro Bowls, which puts him in rare air status. I think playing for an offensively-challenged team hurt him for a bunch of years, but once KC got some skill, he made All-Pros in '02 and '03. In '04, his teammate Brian Waters and Faneca were 1AP by the AP and Shields and Hutch were 2APs. He lost out to Faneca and Hutch as 1AP in '05 and to Faneca and Shawn Andrews in '06, but did get 2APs both years. It's clear the AP preferred Faneca to Shields, although I'm not sure if we can say a whole lot more than that.He might be behind Ogden and Allen, but I think because he already waited a year that's in his favor. It certainly feels like sometimes they make players wait a year, and I can't think of a good reason to keep Shields out. Once you get past 10 Pro Bowls with an offensive lineman it sort of seems silly to question a guy's merits.

 

[SSOG]

ST- total freaking joke. If you want to elect someone for special teams, get Upchurch or wait for Hester.

Agree on the joke part. Why do you mention Upchurch and Hester, though? Neither one of them is close to deserving.

I agree that they're not deserving. Some people think that STs play a big role in the games, so they should be represented in the Hall. That's the only reason Tasker's name keeps coming up. Personally, I strongly disagree with that line of reasoning. I'm just saying that if you DO subscribe to that line of reasoning, then at least elect the most valuable special teamer. Returners are worth so much more than gunners- period. Upchurch is by any measure one of the top 5 returners of all time, and by many measures the very best available for the hall. He also supplemented his returns with some respectable offensive production. If you want to elect a special teamer, Upchurch, not Tasker, is the best choice. If you want a name with a bit more sizzle, wait for Hester to become eligible. Enough of this Tasker nonsense already.

 

[Time Kibitzer]

Holmes: Fantasy Hall of Fame, but I don't think he has much of a chance in the Pro Football Hall of Fame. TD's peak was higher and Holmes never even won a playoff game (unless you count change-of-pace back duty in Baltimore).

Lynch: Booooo (Stanford). Seems like an outside shot as a safety; he does have two All-Pros to go with 9 Pro Bowls, but not big defensive stats. Was a major part of a few great Tampa defenses including a Super Bowl winner. I don't think he makes it this year.

Strahan: Very good chance; top 5 in career sacks, ahead of five modern Hall of Famers. Four All-Pros. Entire career with one team, in New York, makes it very likely. Possibly first ballot.

McNair: No.

Morten Andersen: Didn't play football.

Art Modell: Too much bad blood.

Why is the bolded a requirement for getting in the HoF? Football is a team sport, ergo team success shouldn't be a requirement for recognizing individual greatness; particularly for RBs. Although I agree, no way is Priest deserving of the HoF. I also don't get how you can say kickers don't play football. If kickers are pointless, then get rid of field goals and extra points. Although I will say it is more difficult for a kicker to differentiate himself from his peers than it is for players of other positions; but Morten's longevity make him as deserving as anyone.

 

[bigflig]

Wikipedia Morten Andersen-maybe not this year but eventually he must be inducted.

 

[SSOG]

Wikipedia Morten Andersen-maybe not this year but eventually he must be inducted.

I thought for sure Elam would be within spitting distance of his records by the time he was eligible, but Elam aged almost overnight and fell well short. Still, was Morten the best kicker, or just the one with the longest career? I fear the answer is more the latter than the former, although the 50-yarder record does make me doubt myself. Still, I sort of fear he's the Charlie Joiner of kickers, which makes him even less deserving than the Charlie Joiner of WRs was.

 

[Chase Stuart]

Wikipedia Morten Andersen-maybe not this year but eventually he must be inducted.

I thought for sure Elam would be within spitting distance of his records by the time he was eligible, but Elam aged almost overnight and fell well short. Still, was Morten the best kicker, or just the one with the longest career? I fear the answer is more the latter than the former, although the 50-yarder record does make me doubt myself. Still, I sort of fear he's the Charlie Joiner of kickers, which makes him even less deserving than the Charlie Joiner of WRs was.

You can quibble with my metrics, but I don't think anyone's ever come up with a more comprehensive analysis of rating kickers (Herman-excluded, of course).http://www.pro-football-reference.com/blog/?p=2565I graded Anderson 3rd, but I do think he's behind Lowery.

 

[The_Man]

Ogden made 11 straight Pro Bowls, was first team All-Pro 4 times, won a Super Bowl and was the lead blocker for the second highest rushing season of all time for Jamal Lewis in 2003

In retrospect, he was far better than Orlando Pace and probably as good/better than Walter Jones. He's pretty much the best or second best (depending on your feelings about Jones) Tackle of the 2000s.

He should waltz into the Hall of Fame on the first ballot

 

[Mentos]

ST- total freaking joke. If you want to elect someone for special teams, get Upchurch or wait for Hester.

Agree on the joke part. Why do you mention Upchurch and Hester, though? Neither one of them is close to deserving.

I agree that they're not deserving. Some people think that STs play a big role in the games, so they should be represented in the Hall. That's the only reason Tasker's name keeps coming up. Personally, I strongly disagree with that line of reasoning. I'm just saying that if you DO subscribe to that line of reasoning, then at least elect the most valuable special teamer. Returners are worth so much more than gunners- period. Upchurch is by any measure one of the top 5 returners of all time, and by many measures the very best available for the hall. He also supplemented his returns with some respectable offensive production. If you want to elect a special teamer, Upchurch, not Tasker, is the best choice. If you want a name with a bit more sizzle, wait for Hester to become eligible. Enough of this Tasker nonsense already.

I don't get the Tasker stuff either. Also, I totally agree with you on Upchurch.

 

[SSOG]

Wikipedia Morten Andersen-maybe not this year but eventually he must be inducted.

I thought for sure Elam would be within spitting distance of his records by the time he was eligible, but Elam aged almost overnight and fell well short. Still, was Morten the best kicker, or just the one with the longest career? I fear the answer is more the latter than the former, although the 50-yarder record does make me doubt myself. Still, I sort of fear he's the Charlie Joiner of kickers, which makes him even less deserving than the Charlie Joiner of WRs was.

You can quibble with my metrics, but I don't think anyone's ever come up with a more comprehensive analysis of rating kickers (Herman-excluded, of course).http://www.pro-football-reference.com/blog/?p=2565I graded Anderson 3rd, but I do think he's behind Lowery.

Interesting. I'm shocked to see Akers so low- he's another guy I'd list as worth considering if you absolutely must elect a kicker. One more though- kickers actually have two jobs. The FGs get all the attention, but kicking off might be just as valuable. Really, if you want to compare kickers, I think any analysis that ignores kickoffs misses half the story. Of course, good luck getting reliable data on kickoffs...

 

[drummer]

Would love to see Bryant Young sneak in, but doubt he does this class.

 

[CalBear]

Very very minor quibble, and I know it will never happen. but this is the PRO FOOTBALL Hall of Fame, not the NFL Hall of Fame. The players who spent time in the USFL should have those years be recognized too. For example, Gary Clark didn't start his pro career with the Redskins in 1985, it was with the Jacksonville Bulls in 1984. Same with Herschel Walker and Sean Landeta among others.:end of soapbox rant:

It's "Pro Football" because it includes the AFL. It doesn't include the USFL, the Candian, the Arena, or the Lingere Football League.

 

[SSOG]

Very very minor quibble, and I know it will never happen. but this is the PRO FOOTBALL Hall of Fame, not the NFL Hall of Fame. The players who spent time in the USFL should have those years be recognized too. For example, Gary Clark didn't start his pro career with the Redskins in 1985, it was with the Jacksonville Bulls in 1984. Same with Herschel Walker and Sean Landeta among others.:end of soapbox rant:

It's "Pro Football" because it includes the AFL. It doesn't include the USFL, the Candian, the Arena, or the Lingere Football League.

They also consider AAFC production, which is absurd.

 

[CalBear]

Holmes: Fantasy Hall of Fame, but I don't think he has much of a chance in the Pro Football Hall of Fame. TD's peak was higher and Holmes never even won a playoff game (unless you count change-of-pace back duty in Baltimore).

Lynch: Booooo (Stanford). Seems like an outside shot as a safety; he does have two All-Pros to go with 9 Pro Bowls, but not big defensive stats. Was a major part of a few great Tampa defenses including a Super Bowl winner. I don't think he makes it this year.

Strahan: Very good chance; top 5 in career sacks, ahead of five modern Hall of Famers. Four All-Pros. Entire career with one team, in New York, makes it very likely. Possibly first ballot.

McNair: No.

Morten Andersen: Didn't play football.

Art Modell: Too much bad blood.

Why is the bolded a requirement for getting in the HoF? Football is a team sport, ergo team success shouldn't be a requirement for recognizing individual greatness; particularly for RBs. Although I agree, no way is Priest deserving of the HoF. I also don't get how you can say kickers don't play football. If kickers are pointless, then get rid of field goals and extra points. Although I will say it is more difficult for a kicker to differentiate himself from his peers than it is for players of other positions; but Morten's longevity make him as deserving as anyone.

I was comparing Holmes to TD; if TD can't get in with two Super Bowls, no way can Holmes get in with no playoff wins.I didn't say kickers are pointless, I said they don't play football. No one who's on the field for less than 10 plays a game deserves a spot in the Hall of Fame. There are six players inducted a year; any time you put someone in, you keep out someone like Cris Carter (1101 receptions, 130 TDs).

Andersen led the league in FGs once in his career, with 28 FGs. The year before, Tony Franklin hit 32; the next year Scott Norwood hit 32. He's 39th in terms of field goal percentage. Andersen simply wasn't differentiated from his peers except in longevity.

 

[Raider Nation]

As long as Larry Allen gets in, I can't see being too outraged about anything else.

 

[DoubleG]

Holmes: Fantasy Hall of Fame, but I don't think he has much of a chance in the Pro Football Hall of Fame. TD's peak was higher and Holmes never even won a playoff game (unless you count change-of-pace back duty in Baltimore).

Lynch: Booooo (Stanford). Seems like an outside shot as a safety; he does have two All-Pros to go with 9 Pro Bowls, but not big defensive stats. Was a major part of a few great Tampa defenses including a Super Bowl winner. I don't think he makes it this year.

Strahan: Very good chance; top 5 in career sacks, ahead of five modern Hall of Famers. Four All-Pros. Entire career with one team, in New York, makes it very likely. Possibly first ballot.

McNair: No.

Morten Andersen: Didn't play football.

Art Modell: Too much bad blood.

Why is the bolded a requirement for getting in the HoF? Football is a team sport, ergo team success shouldn't be a requirement for recognizing individual greatness; particularly for RBs. Although I agree, no way is Priest deserving of the HoF. I also don't get how you can say kickers don't play football. If kickers are pointless, then get rid of field goals and extra points. Although I will say it is more difficult for a kicker to differentiate himself from his peers than it is for players of other positions; but Morten's longevity make him as deserving as anyone.

I was comparing Holmes to TD; if TD can't get in with two Super Bowls, no way can Holmes get in with no playoff wins.I didn't say kickers are pointless, I said they don't play football. No one who's on the field for less than 10 plays a game deserves a spot in the Hall of Fame. There are six players inducted a year; any time you put someone in, you keep out someone like Cris Carter (1101 receptions, 130 TDs).

Andersen led the league in FGs once in his career, with 28 TDs. The year before, Tony Franklin hit 32; the next year Scott Norwood hit 32. He's 39th in terms of field goal percentage. Andersen simply wasn't differentiated from his peers except in longevity.

Not to cross over sports (as that's always fraught with problems) but Cal Ripken has a lifetime BA of .276, had 431 HR (in 19 seasons - thats 22.7 a season) - and he won 2 gold gloves in those 19 season (so we he was good - but not great defensive SS/3B) - he's in the baseball HoF...mainly due to longevity. Longevity counts for something.

 

[nxmehta]

I think Sapp and Strahan are pure locks. Both have the stats and a ring. Sapp is now a broadcaster and was always easy to give quotes, which made the jobs of the sports journalists voting much easier. Strahan is now hosting Live! with Kelly Ripa, the advertisers and the network, along with the leverage of Steve Tisch in the entertainment world and the leagues desire to give fellatio the Mara family whenever possible, on top of his achievements, he's a lock. I have nothing against the Patriots, it's front office, Belichick or their fans, but I hope Robert Kraft never ever sees the light of day of the football Hall Of Fame. Yes, he saved the Patriots in Boston, he kept them local, he financed his own stadium and he has a tremendous amount of winning pedigree for such a short tenure as owner, as well as being a lynchpin in the negotiations in the last labor war, but I think the MHK patches were egregious in the worst way. I'm sorry his wife died and I'm sure she was a great contributor to the various charities and causes she was involved in, but she was not a former player, not a former coach, did not have any association with the NFL directly other than her marriage to Kraft and involvement in team charities that bear no standing on the game itself, she did not make any sweeping innovation to the game or or was an innovator directly related to league history. You can't have spotters with binoculars fining players for wearing their socks a certain way or covering certain logos and have a team spend an entire season with a patch on their jerseys for a NFL non contributor. It sends the wrong message, that there are two sets of rules. There are rules for the Rooneys, Maras, Krafts, Jerry Jones and the other big players in the labor negotiations and TV rights issues and league politics. Then there is everyone else. What if Jim Kelly wore a HJK ( Hunter James Kelly) patch on his jersey? Don't kids with Globoid-Cell Leukodystrophy have am inspiring story to tell the world about strength and the need for awareness about children with special needs? The MHK patch is a disgrace to the integrity of the league. It's a dangerous slippery slope where some non contributors are going to be seen as more worthy than others and that non contributors should be recognized at all by the NFL, which lends an air of lack of impartiality by the league administration. Jack Lummus was a defensive end of the New York Giants, he enlisted after the attack on Pearl Harbor and fought at Iwo Jima. He died in combat and won the Congressional Medal of Honor. Al Blozis was an offensive tackle for the New York Giants, who forced his way into the service, and squeezed in three games playing on furlough, and died searching for two missing comrades in arms. The MHK patch is a disgrace to their memory, and to Korey Stringer, Thomas Herrion, Jeff Fuller, Dennis Byrd, Darryl Stingley and others. For Robert Kraft to let his players wear the MHK patch, at the cost of perceived integrity to the game, he should never sniff the football Hall of Fame.

Is this some kind of joke? You're saying Kraft letting his players wear a MHK patch should put him out of the HoF? And it disgraces the memory of combat veterans?

 

[SSOG]

Not to cross over sports (as that's always fraught with problems) but Cal Ripken has a lifetime BA of .276, had 431 HR (in 19 seasons - thats 22.7 a season) - and he won 2 gold gloves in those 19 season (so we he was good - but not great defensive SS/3B) - he's in the baseball HoF...mainly due to longevity. Longevity counts for something.

Bad comparison. The baseball and football HoFs have wildly different standards. Baseball prefers black ink, while Football prefers story lines. Baseball is a huge sucker for longevity, while football is not. Gale Sayers never would have made it into the baseball HoF. There are few players in the football HoF based primarily on longevity, and the ones that are are usually considered the Hall's biggest mistakes (Charlie Joiner, I'm looking at you).

 

[Time Kibitzer]

Holmes: Fantasy Hall of Fame, but I don't think he has much of a chance in the Pro Football Hall of Fame. TD's peak was higher and Holmes never even won a playoff game (unless you count change-of-pace back duty in Baltimore).

Lynch: Booooo (Stanford). Seems like an outside shot as a safety; he does have two All-Pros to go with 9 Pro Bowls, but not big defensive stats. Was a major part of a few great Tampa defenses including a Super Bowl winner. I don't think he makes it this year.

Strahan: Very good chance; top 5 in career sacks, ahead of five modern Hall of Famers. Four All-Pros. Entire career with one team, in New York, makes it very likely. Possibly first ballot.

McNair: No.

Morten Andersen: Didn't play football.

Art Modell: Too much bad blood.

Why is the bolded a requirement for getting in the HoF? Football is a team sport, ergo team success shouldn't be a requirement for recognizing individual greatness; particularly for RBs. Although I agree, no way is Priest deserving of the HoF. I also don't get how you can say kickers don't play football. If kickers are pointless, then get rid of field goals and extra points. Although I will say it is more difficult for a kicker to differentiate himself from his peers than it is for players of other positions; but Morten's longevity make him as deserving as anyone.

I was comparing Holmes to TD; if TD can't get in with two Super Bowls, no way can Holmes get in with no playoff wins.I didn't say kickers are pointless, I said they don't play football. No one who's on the field for less than 10 plays a game deserves a spot in the Hall of Fame. There are six players inducted a year; any time you put someone in, you keep out someone like Cris Carter (1101 receptions, 130 TDs).

Andersen led the league in FGs once in his career, with 28 TDs. The year before, Tony Franklin hit 32; the next year Scott Norwood hit 32. He's 39th in terms of field goal percentage. Andersen simply wasn't differentiated from his peers except in longevity.

How kickers compare to other positions is irrelevant imo. When judging the greatness of Lawrence Taylor, you don't compare him to Michael Irvin, you compare him to other LBs. So if a kicker can greatly differentiate himself from other kickers, then he's deserving of being in the HoF imo, regardless of how few times he's on the field.For starters, looking at all time field goal percentage is a pretty terrible way of judging kickers without putting things into context; kickers overall have improved dramatically over the years, so comparing Morten to his peers is much more relevant than comparing him to kickers who started their careers after 2000 for example. Also, Given the discrepancy between his career FG made and the person who's in 3rd place all-time for career FG made (565 to 478), Morten's longevity is certainly nothing to scoff at.

 

[Raider Nation]

There are few players in the football HoF based primarily on longevity, and the ones that are are usually considered the Hall's biggest mistakes.

Look no further than Jim Marshall.Very good player for 20 years. Appeared in 282 consecutive games (270 starts in a row). 2 Pro Bowls. Can't sniff the Hall.

 

[CalBear]

Not to cross over sports (as that's always fraught with problems) but Cal Ripken has a lifetime BA of .276, had 431 HR (in 19 seasons - thats 22.7 a season) - and he won 2 gold gloves in those 19 season (so we he was good - but not great defensive SS/3B) - he's in the baseball HoF...mainly due to longevity. Longevity counts for something.

When Manny Moto gets in, you can put in Morten Andersen. Ripkin played 9 innings.

 

[CalBear]

How kickers compare to other positions is irrelevant imo. When judging the greatness of Lawrence Taylor, you don't compare him to Michael Irvin, you compare him to other LBs. So if a kicker can greatly differentiate himself from other kickers, then he's deserving of being in the HoF imo, regardless of how few times he's on the field.

That's only true if kickers are inducted separately from other players. As it is, you have to decide whether you put in Warren Sapp, Cris Carter, or Morten Andersen, which means that kickers absolutely must be judged relative to the other players they'd be bumping from the HOF class. And the impact that Sapp and Carter had on their teams was orders of magnitude larger than the impact Andersen had on his. (For the record, Andersen played in 11 playoff games in his 22 years, and his teams went 3-8.)

For starters, looking at all time field goal percentage is a pretty terrible way of judging kickers without putting things into context; kickers overall have improved dramatically over the years, so comparing Morten to his peers is much more relevant than comparing him to kickers who started their careers after 2000 for example. Also, Given the discrepancy between his career FG made and the person who's in 3rd place all-time for career FG made (565 to 478), Morten's longevity is certainly nothing to scoff at.

Morten Andersen led the league in field goal percentage once. Once in 22 years. And it wasn't the same year he led in field goals made; he was 26 of 30. In fact he was only in the top 3 in FG% three times in 22 years. So, comparing him to his peers, he was a good but not outstanding kicker. The only distinguishing characteristic he has is longevity. And when you play 8 snaps a game and don't get hit, that's not impressive.

 

[Time Kibitzer]

How kickers compare to other positions is irrelevant imo. When judging the greatness of Lawrence Taylor, you don't compare him to Michael Irvin, you compare him to other LBs. So if a kicker can greatly differentiate himself from other kickers, then he's deserving of being in the HoF imo, regardless of how few times he's on the field.

That's only true if kickers are inducted separately from other players. As it is, you have to decide whether you put in Warren Sapp, Cris Carter, or Morten Andersen, which means that kickers absolutely must be judged relative to the other players they'd be bumping from the HOF class. And the impact that Sapp and Carter had on their teams was orders of magnitude larger than the impact Andersen had on his. (For the record, Andersen played in 11 playoff games in his 22 years, and his teams went 3-8.)

Fair enough, but at some point inducting the best kicker ever (whether that's Morten or someone else) will be more justifiable than inducting the 30th best WR. And inducting players based on their impact on their teams is nonsensical since then the HoF would be full of QBs alone. And again, individuals greatness should not be measured by team success, so his teams' playoff performance is irrelevant.

For starters, looking at all time field goal percentage is a pretty terrible way of judging kickers without putting things into context; kickers overall have improved dramatically over the years, so comparing Morten to his peers is much more relevant than comparing him to kickers who started their careers after 2000 for example. Also, Given the discrepancy between his career FG made and the person who's in 3rd place all-time for career FG made (565 to 478), Morten's longevity is certainly nothing to scoff at.

Morten Andersen led the league in field goal percentage once. Once in 22 years. And it wasn't the same year he led in field goals made; he was 26 of 30. In fact he was only in the top 3 in FG% three times in 22 years. So, comparing him to his peers, he was a good but not outstanding kicker. The only distinguishing characteristic he has is longevity. And when you play 8 snaps a game and don't get hit, that's not impressive.

For starters, FG% is a nice stat for it's simplicity, but it doesn't take into account the difficulty of kicks a kicker faced; someone who has an abnormally high amount of 50+ yard FGA will certainly have a lower FG% than they would otherwise. But even ignoring that, I'm not sure where you found this data or I'd check this for myself, but perhaps no other kicker in the 80s/90s was top 3 in FG% 3 different times; what you've written doesn't necessarily suggest he wasn't outstanding. And choosing top 3 only is kind of arbitrary, perhaps a better measure would be how many times did he rank in the top 5 (albeit equally as arbitrary) or what was his average and median rank over his career and how does he compare to his peers in that measure?

 

[drummer]

Quarterback Alex Smith played with Thomas Herrion, a lineman who died in his locker room after a game. If he petitioned the league to be allowed to write Herrions name and number on the back of his helmet, he would probably be denied. Mike Nolan wanted to wear suits on the sideline because he felt it would be professional and be a tribute to his father. The league denied him until the league branded their own suits, as soon as it found a profit avenue for it. Alex Smith could not write Thomas Herrion's name visibly on the back of his helmet today without being fined for it. If he persisted, he would be suspended by the league. If Smith lobbied the league formally to do it, he would be denied. You see Herrion is not from an old money family. He's not a woman with a husband who is a power player in league politics and the billion dollar TV contracts it gets and profits from. But Herrion actually played the game. He died playing the game. But the league says it's ok to have an ENTIRE team wear a MHK patch, a person who is only associated with the game by who she married and had no other function and was never an owner herself, but it would probably balk at the idea of giving tribute to Herrion or any other former player right now.

Herrion never played a regular season snap in the NFL. He died after a pre-season game. The Yorks set up the Thomas Herrion Memorial Award in part to help his family. Nolan could not wear a suit due to the NFL and Reebok's policy. He later wore suits in the sideline once both the NFL and Reebok came to an agreement. The other coach who wanted to wear a suit the same year was Jack Del Rio. He was first denied for the same reasons Nolan was. Really left field argument here. Borderline stupid using these points. Really stupid and baseless.ETA: Herrion passed away in 2005. Like, he played a long time with Alex Smith under Nolan, who both started in the 49ers in 2005. Herrion and Smith did not play ever in a regular season game together. Yet, here is what the Yorks have set up to honor a player who may not have made the roster in 2005, you ###hat:

Thomas Herrion Award49ers owners Denise and John York established the Thomas Herrion Memorial Award in 2005, which will be presented each season to a rookie or first-year player that best represents the Dream of Thomas Herrion. The award will go to a player, like Thomas, who has taken advantage of every opportunity, turned it into a positive situation and made their dream turn into a reality.2005 T Thomas Herrion2006 T Harvey Dahl2007 CB Tarell Brown 2008 WR Dominique Zeigler2009 FB Brit Miller 2010 RB Anthony Dixon DT Will Tukuafu2011 CB Cory Nelms

ETA again: Tim Rattay started in 2005 the first game in the regular season. Herrion was already passed before that. You ###hat.ETA once more, since Gekko used a cheap shot with Herrion not knowing ####: despite your bull#### about Herrion not being from old money family, which is a flat out stupid point: Herrion's dream was to buy his Mom a new house. The Yorks and the team helped buy Herrion's mother a new house after his death. Herrion may have not even made the team, but the 49er franchise honored his wish and 'dream'. I'll bust your balls over this all day long you fraud. The 49ers did right by Herrion, and your bull#### theory I will call out all ####### day, you POS. You have no bleepin clue. You fraud.

 

[otb_lifer]

Is this some kind of joke? You're saying Kraft letting his players wear a MHK patch should put him out of the HoF? And it disgraces the memory of combat veterans?

It is not a joke. This is a league that pays former players and other officials to make sure current players adhere to the uniform code. This is a league that suspended Alex Karras and Paul Hornung for gambling for a season. This is a league that investigates allegations of teams opening and closing of large bay doors to aid or hinder kickers during field goal attempts. This is a league that will currently suspend a player based on what he could have done, without actually needing any conviction from a court of law, but simply for presenting the NFL brand in a bad public light. The NFL has, for a very very long time, focused heavily on maintaining it's reputation and it's perception as 1) Being impartial in every facet of the game2) Being seen as above reproach in it's image and it's presentation to the general publicMyra Kraft is - Not a former player- Not a former coach- Not a current or former owner- Not a former official in any capacity- Not involved league wide in the branding, promotion or creating a global reach for the game- Did not ever work for the league administration in any capacity- Did not create or spur any type of innovation to vastly improve or change the direction of the game itself- Is not tied to the legacy/roots of the league in any capacity or seen as instrumental in it's developmentQuarterback Alex Smith played with Thomas Herrion, a lineman who died in his locker room after a game. If he petitioned the league to be allowed to write Herrions name and number on the back of his helmet, he would probably be denied. Jake Plummer, who was good friends with Pat Tillman, got into several arguments with the league about wanting to honor his friend and team mate by way of putting markings on his uniform as tribute, in which the league sparred with him over the issue.Mike Nolan wanted to wear suits on the sideline because he felt it would be professional and be a tribute to his father. The league denied him until the league branded their own suits, as soon as it found a profit avenue for it. Jet's owner Woody Johnson, had a daughter who died, Casey. What if he wanted to have Jets players wear a STCJ ( Sale Trotter Case Johnson) patch on their uniforms to pay tribute to diabetics and lesbian/bisexual/gay rights and the need to have intervention for troubled youth? What if he petitioned for that? Odds are he would be denied. It's a double edged sword. The league is very anal about it's uniform code, it's image and it's perception of impartiality to the point of being called the "No Fun League" Well the problem with having such strict standards is you have to apply it even in instances in which you would rather not. There are tons of players that were hurt or died during their careers or on the field, that if current players wanted to tribute on their uniforms, they would be fined. If they persisted, they would be suspended. If they petitioned the league to have tribute on their helmets or uniforms, odds are they would be denied. Alex Smith could not write Thomas Herrion's name visibly on the back of his helmet today without being fined for it. If he persisted, he would be suspended by the league. If Smith lobbied the league formally to do it, he would be denied. You see Herrion is not from an old money family. He's not a woman with a husband who is a power player in league politics and the billion dollar TV contracts it gets and profits from. But Herrion actually played the game. He died playing the game. But the league says it's ok to have an ENTIRE team wear a MHK patch, a person who is only associated with the game by who she married and had no other function and was never an owner herself, but it would probably balk at the idea of giving tribute to Herrion or any other former player right now. Some people might say it's a small thing. But the league has made it clear the small things matter. Because they have no problem fining and suspending for any bit of minutia that they want to enforce. I have nothing against Myra Kraft. But her patch on the Patriots uniform that season, IMHO, dishonors the perception of the integrity of the entire league. The perception of impartiality and the perception that the league makes a hard separation between those related to the NFL and those who are not to maintain a sense of professional objectivity. As soon as Robert Kraft let his players run onto the field that first game with the MHK patch, IMHO, he lost the right to any Hall Of Fame candidacy for the rest of his life. Because it shows a hard demarcation that there are tiers of rules between the different owners and how the league administration will either bend, break or enforce based on who does it, not that it was done in the first place. I'm not even sure Yudkin could conjure up an actual logical reason why Myra Kraft could ever be considered an actual contributor directly to the league and how her "legacy" on those uniforms did anything other than create a dangerous slippery slope on what could be seen as hypocritical about the leagues demand for uniformity and appearance. The MHK patch might have honored Myra Kraft and her husband, but IMHO it also served to dishonor the league and the perceived integrity of the league administration. If Patricia Rooney Mara ever wins an Academy Award for the Dragon Tattoo sequel, why don't the Giants wear a PRM patch on their jerseys to celebrate? When you sell your integrity, it's never the big things first, it's always the small things, it's always the things that often go by unnoticed.

Kraft could've circumvented your ire, (and upheld the precious integrity) by simply making a generous donation to The Human Fund in her name ... it is "Money for people", after all

 

[jbz]

Let Terrell Davis in!

 

[thecatch]

He didn't have the years with the huge sack totals that Sapp did, so he isn't as much of a household name, but Bryant Young was every bit as good IMO.

 

[Bankerguy]

Larry Allen = Lock

 

[ConstruxBoy]

ST- total freaking joke. If you want to elect someone for special teams, get Upchurch or wait for Hester.

Agree on the joke part. Why do you mention Upchurch and Hester, though? Neither one of them is close to deserving.

I agree that they're not deserving. Some people think that STs play a big role in the games, so they should be represented in the Hall. That's the only reason Tasker's name keeps coming up. Personally, I strongly disagree with that line of reasoning. I'm just saying that if you DO subscribe to that line of reasoning, then at least elect the most valuable special teamer. Returners are worth so much more than gunners- period. Upchurch is by any measure one of the top 5 returners of all time, and by many measures the very best available for the hall. He also supplemented his returns with some respectable offensive production. If you want to elect a special teamer, Upchurch, not Tasker, is the best choice. If you want a name with a bit more sizzle, wait for Hester to become eligible. Enough of this Tasker nonsense already.

JWB had some excellent commentary a few years ago about ST players and why they don't deserve the HOF. I generally agreed with his conclusions although I do think there is some point at which you can't keep pretending that those 10-12 ST plays a game don't exist. Just like it was all QB, RB, WR for awhile and now finally we start getting more lineman in, I think eventually there will come a point where the best couple of ST players should be in before the 25th Safety, for example. I do think Tasker and others may have a better chance as Senior Committee nominees in 10-15 years. How would everyone rank the importance of the 4 main ST positions? I'm going:1) Returner2) Kicker3) Gunner4) PunterMore emphasis given to points scored and physical play.

 

[Statcruncher]

Idont know,when I saw Priest's name I was like ehhhh...dont think he ever belongs. Now I have to look up his stats. I know he had 2 good year but I have to see for myself...ill be back.

My reaction as well. He had an amazing season or two, but not HOF worthy IMO.

 

[Chase Stuart]

Wikipedia Morten Andersen-maybe not this year but eventually he must be inducted.

I thought for sure Elam would be within spitting distance of his records by the time he was eligible, but Elam aged almost overnight and fell well short. Still, was Morten the best kicker, or just the one with the longest career? I fear the answer is more the latter than the former, although the 50-yarder record does make me doubt myself. Still, I sort of fear he's the Charlie Joiner of kickers, which makes him even less deserving than the Charlie Joiner of WRs was.

You can quibble with my metrics, but I don't think anyone's ever come up with a more comprehensive analysis of rating kickers (Herman-excluded, of course).http://www.pro-football-reference.com/blog/?p=2565I graded Anderson 3rd, but I do think he's behind Lowery.

Interesting. I'm shocked to see Akers so low- he's another guy I'd list as worth considering if you absolutely must elect a kicker. One more though- kickers actually have two jobs. The FGs get all the attention, but kicking off might be just as valuable. Really, if you want to compare kickers, I think any analysis that ignores kickoffs misses half the story. Of course, good luck getting reliable data on kickoffs...

Note that Akers' most recent seasons aren't included in that article, so yeah, he'd get a pretty good bump I'd imagine.