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Progressive Music Thread (2 Viewers)

I didn't think Avenged Sevenfold was considered prog.  They are very much a hard rock/metal band. 

Anyway, the new Neal Morse CD is out, under the Neal Morse Band name.  Sounds really good so far! 
This new album is Prog Metal...no doubt. It's highly ambitious, outstanding playing, concepts, just really impressive. Everything they have done before this is straight hard rock/metal. 

 
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I'll take your word for it.  I am not a fan of theirs, and I am not really a prog metal guy - except for Dream Theater, Opeth and Devin Townsend (although I think Devin is simply a metal artist, with occasional prog tendencies :P) - so hearing that something is prog metal isn't something that makes me run to buy it. I am way more of a prog rock than prog metal guy. 

 
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I'll take your word for it.  I am not a fan of theirs, and I am not really a prog metal guy - except for Dream Theater, Opeth and Devin Townsend (although I think Devin is simply a metal artist, with occasional prog tendencies :P) - so hearing that something is prog metal isn't something that makes me run to buy it. I am way more of a prog rock than prog metal guy. 
Same here. Other than Dream Theater i don't listen to much modern day metal at all.

But this album has the goods if you give it a few spins. Far better than the dreck DT released this past year with The Astonishing. That was bloated, boring POS album IMO. I have zero desire to ever listen to that again. I has almost nothing memorable about it. 

Just awful.

I actually really want Portnoy back in the band. They lost their soul when they parted ways with him IMO. Mike is great and all......but Portnoy is a beast and was a cog in that band. 

 
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Eh, I am a big fan of The Astonishing, so I cannot get on board with that.  And I don't want Portnoy back.  I was tired of seeing him as the face of the band and taking most of the credit for everything.  They don't need him; Petrucci was, is and will almost be the most important cog in that band.  Plus, the three albums with Mangini are collectively much better than the last three with Portnoy, so his departure turned around the downward trajectory they were on. 

 
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I wonder if Geddy Lee and Alex Lifeson would ever consider touring with Portnoy, since Neil is done touring. I know they have said they won't tour without him, but time changes things. Portnoy could definitely handle the drumming. 

 
I wonder if Geddy Lee and Alex Lifeson would ever consider touring with Portnoy, since Neil is done touring. I know they have said they won't tour without him, but time changes things. Portnoy could definitely handle the drumming. 
Man, I hope not.  While it's true that Portnoy could handle a lot of the drumming, he doesn't have the class or humility to grace the stage with legends like Alex and Geddy. 

 
#### Everyone And Run.  Great new album by Marillion - I like it as much as Marbles and Bridge.  Caught their show at the Keswick Theater in (almost) Philly last weekend.
My favorite band ... saw them here in Boston two weeks ago, and was disappointed only because they could play for only two hours. Stupid curfew imposed by the venue. But I've seen them eight times total (going back to the Fish era when I first saw them open for Rush), and this was as good as I've ever heard them sound.

New Kings is fantastic. El Dorado is decent (especially The Gold section), and I like most of The Leavers -- I have to wonder if they'll ever play that live. In general, their longer pieces tend to be my favorites -- Ocean Cloud (one of the best pieces of music I've ever heard), Invisible Man and Neverland off Marbles; This Strange Engine (the track), A Few Words for the Dead, Gaza (controversial, but I'm a fan), even Montreal. Then of course, all of Brave and the album that started it for me, Misplaced Childhood. :wub:  

 
My favorite band ... saw them here in Boston two weeks ago, and was disappointed only because they could play for only two hours. Stupid curfew imposed by the venue. But I've seen them eight times total (going back to the Fish era when I first saw them open for Rush), and this was as good as I've ever heard them sound.

New Kings is fantastic. El Dorado is decent (especially The Gold section), and I like most of The Leavers -- I have to wonder if they'll ever play that live. In general, their longer pieces tend to be my favorites -- Ocean Cloud (one of the best pieces of music I've ever heard), Invisible Man and Neverland off Marbles; This Strange Engine (the track), A Few Words for the Dead, Gaza (controversial, but I'm a fan), even Montreal. Then of course, all of Brave and the album that started it for me, Misplaced Childhood. :wub:  
Yeah Philly had a curfew as well.  Great show, but my brother saw them the night before in Baltimore (9:30 Club) and I'd would have preferred that set list (This Strange Engine, Wave>Mad). Still overall a great show.  My first time seeing them in a long time.

My first Marillion was also them opening for Rush at the Meadowlands on the MC tour (Rush's Power Windows tour, I believe).  I also caught them at the (old) Ritz in NYC on the Clutching at Straws tour.  I also saw them with Steve at the (new) Ritz in NYC.  Dream Theater opened - it was the final show with their original singer. Turns out that was pretty noteworthy in its own right.

I love the new album but my favorite is the El Dorado suite.

 
That's funny. According to setlist.fm web site, our first shows were two nights apart -- April 1 and 3, 1986.

I was bummed they closed the Boston show with Three-Minute Boy ... I'm not a fan of that as a closer (they did it in 2012 as well, a late replacement for TSE, according to a setlist that someone grabbed off the stage), especially since I know they closed with This Strange Engine for most of the rest of the NA tour. Other than that, no complaints though.

 
That's funny. According to setlist.fm web site, our first shows were two nights apart -- April 1 and 3, 1986.

I was bummed they closed the Boston show with Three-Minute Boy ... I'm not a fan of that as a closer (they did it in 2012 as well, a late replacement for TSE, according to a setlist that someone grabbed off the stage), especially since I know they closed with This Strange Engine for most of the rest of the NA tour. Other than that, no complaints though.
I would have loved TSE.  As it was I got the same E2 as you (Sugar Mice, Easter, Three Minute Boy).  When I heard Sugar Mice starting, I headed to the men's room and almost left.  So glad I didn't because Easter is one of my favorites (one of my all-time favorite guitar solos, just beautiful imo). I had avoided setlist spoilers so I had no idea what they were playing this tour. We got 3 tracks from Marbles which you can never complain about. I would have loved AoS though.  Such a great album as well.

Just for fun, I looked up the setlists from my 2 Ritz shows.  Old & new.  Great stuff!

 
For those interested in (and with the capability to play back) Steven Wilson's 5.1 surround mixes, just picked up the aforementioned Tales From Topographic Oceans by Yes, King Crimson's Beat and Three Of A Perfect Pair from the early '80s as well as (and I realize it isn't prog) arguably XTC's best, Skylarking, produced by Todd Rundgren. Haven't listened to them yet, but all the other entries in their respective series have been outstanding, not only musically but in terms of Wilson's remixes. 

Not sure if Tull is prog (?), Wilson's 5.1 surround treatment of their second album Stand Up to be released Friday, and reportedly Songs From The Woods in progress and set for 2017 release.    

Wilson's 5.1 surround remix news/announcements Facebook page (he has done Yes, King Crimson, Tull, ELP, Gentle Giant and XTC, to name some).

https://www.facebook.com/swremixes/

 
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Tull is definitely considered prog.  They featured a flute after all. ;)  

I still need to get Steven Wilson's 5.1 of Tears for Fears' Songs from the Big Chair.  While not a prog album, it's still a great record.

 
Another famous flute player. :)  

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_c_ufaxeSTs

Songs From The Big Chair (title inspired by Lennon's experience with Arthur Janov's Primal Scream Therapy documented in his first [[(and best?]] post-Beatles album with the Plastic Ono Band) and especially Everybody Wants To Rule The World was ubiquitous on radio, one of the biggest worldwide hits of the decade and a soundtrack of an era inextricably linked with its time, though unlike some music from that era, has aged well and is more timeless than most. Agree it was a great album. I actually bought the 5.1 surround mix (because I liked it and to check out what Wilson did with the mix, as he is very busy, can pick and choose his projects and this isn't his typical genre, he has said he is a fan of their work - he also has done four albums by XTC* [[Drums And Wires, Skylarking, Oranges & Lemons and Nonesuch]] and Sparkle In The Rain by The Simple Minds, it may also have something to do with what he listened to at a formative age?) in standalone Blu-ray audio format. Co-leader, main songwriter and lead guitarist Raymond Orzabal is the primary artistic force and a gifted musician. They don't have a huge body of work (split up before joining forces again a few years ago, working at a somewhat glacial pace like later period Kubrick). Two live versions of EWTRTW. I really like Orzabal's spare, staccato, repeated style and ringing, bell-like tone on this song's lead. Looking a little like Jerry Seinfeld immediately below!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KHoJPUHG83g    

Spotify Landmark - 30th Anniversary rendition

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qGPFmBbnsNM

Background on the pristine, immaculate, brilliant production of SFTBC (deceptively simple, actually a lot going on with myriad layers of programmed synths and stacked rhythms) 

http://www.mixonline.com/news/profiles/classic-tracks-tears-fears-everybody-wants-rule-world/365857

* I think XTC played sort of a mentor role to Tears For Fears and were the only other Swindon, England local products to make it on the international stage (albeit the former more of a cult level stardom)?    

 
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Haven't yet listened to Wilson's 5.1 surround treatment of Tull's Stand Up, but the 2016 stereo remix is amazing on headphones. It also comes with a '69 concert. I think Songs From The Woods in 2017 will make nine in the Tull/Wilson series so far (not sure if any additional albums are planned after that). Anyway, after (re)listening to all the albums so far, except for Too Old To Rock 'N Roll: Too Young To Die!, I think Stand Up and Benefit are my favorites. Some songs on Stand Up sound like early Black Sabbath, don't know who influenced who (or more likely, they shared mutual prior influences?). Albums below (albeit not Wilson remixes).

Stand Up

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZdnZg2Ax8ps

Benefit

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hC7FHnIMaXE

 
I haven't read the thread, but can someone define "prog" for me? I get all kinds of confused when current terms get ret-conned into stuff that happened 40 years ago (see: the whole "heavy metal/metal" thing people have been arguing about for a million years).

Back in the days of my youth, anything that was "rock" (don't even get me started down THAT road) that wasn't Top 40-ish ( :angry:  ) was "progressive". "Progressive" = "underground" and could include anything from Hendrix to Zappa to Pink Floyd to Starcastle to Todd Rundgren. The stuff like Yes, ELP, and King Crimson were doing was called "art rock" or "classical rock" (both are bull #### terms, IMO, but what Rolling Stone hath decreed must stand).

Is that what we mean by prog? Keyboards and Tolkien? 

 
I haven't read the thread, but can someone define "prog" for me? I get all kinds of confused when current terms get ret-conned into stuff that happened 40 years ago (see: the whole "heavy metal/metal" thing people have been arguing about for a million years).

Back in the days of my youth, anything that was "rock" (don't even get me started down THAT road) that wasn't Top 40-ish ( :angry:  ) was "progressive". "Progressive" = "underground" and could include anything from Hendrix to Zappa to Pink Floyd to Starcastle to Todd Rundgren. The stuff like Yes, ELP, and King Crimson were doing was called "art rock" or "classical rock" (both are bull #### terms, IMO, but what Rolling Stone hath decreed must stand).

Is that what we mean by prog? Keyboards and Tolkien? 
Prog is anything that experiments with, deconstructs or expands the borders of its genre - rock, blues, folk, jazz, metal - in the name of sonic complexity. Nothing i have seen cited in these pages from the last 25 years meets the standard i hold for the form. Prog is often spacey, riffy & pretentious but, contrary to modern sensibilities, these are not qualifying features.

 
Progressive has come to mean a certain style of rock that was popularized by acts such as Genesis, Yes, Moody Blues, King Crimson, etc. in the 70s - symphonic rock elements; long, expansive instrumental sections; odd time signatures; unconventional song arrangements; emphasis on playing; etc. 

 
Progressive has come to mean a certain style of rock that was popularized by acts such as Genesis, Yes, Moody Blues, King Crimson, etc. in the 70s - symphonic rock elements; long, expansive instrumental sections; odd time signatures; unconventional song arrangements; emphasis on playing; etc. 
So........ that definition would surely include acts like Prince, Funkadelic, and Graham Central Station - no?

I'm not trying to be pedantic - I'm truly not - though I know the way I write makes it seem that way. 

 
Well, I did say a style of rock, and I would not categorize Prince or Graham Central Station as rock artists per se: Funkadelic is more soul and funk, no?  Not to mention that certain bands are labeled differently now than they were back then or would be now.  For example, the prog tag wasn't used till much later, and even some have a tough time calling a band like Pink Floyd progressive, since their sound and style was more rooted in psychedelic rock, but they were certainly a progressive band in the most literal sense of the word, so they almost always get the prog tag now, even if they were never called that back in the day. 

 
Do you think Prince was a rock artist?  I would have called him a R&B artist, first and foremost.  Sure, he dabbled in rock at times, but I doubt many would have called him a rock artist before anything else, especially since, even when he rocked, the rhythms were still very much pop and R&B.  I don't think I've ever heard Prince played on a rock station before (talking FM radio, not online radio sites). 

 
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So my wife and I were blown away last night by a nearly 3 hour set from Steven Wilson.

Just an incredible night of the musical genius and prog/pop/rock of an artist who clearly is at the very top of his prowess. The set from start to finish was one of the very best shows I have ever seen. And the cool thing was, it was performed in a small intimate club (The Culture Room in Fort Lauderdale) and were were an arm's length away from the band. Just a fantastic show.

He performed the brilliant (and best solo record by himself to date IMO) Hand Cannot Erase front to back in set one. It was magical.

I don't think Porcupine Tree will ever get back together anytime soon if ever. Maybe we can hold out some hope for a reunion tour, evening with sort of thing, but Steven is clearly focused on his solo career with 4 straight albums and no slowing down in sight. 

All his solo records for me got better with each release. Topping Hand Cannot Erase will be a lofty task. But the beauty of what he does is so old school. I grew up in the late 70's and 80's and bands would just make records every year. That was the way to do it. Then you can experiment and be "progressive"

For me Progressive has always meant, daring to change, experiment and be bold. Sometimes it works, sometimes it does not. But the cool thing was you knew another album was coming out soon after.

The music business has changed drastically and not for the better.

Set List from last night:

  1. First Regret
     
  2. 3 Years Older
     
  3. Hand Cannot Erase
     
  4. Perfect Life
     
  5. Routine
     
  6. Home Invasion
     
  7. Regret #9
     
  8. Transience
     
  9. Ancestral
     
  10. Happy Returns
     
  11. Ascendant Here On...
     
  12. Set 2:
  13. Dark Matter
    (Porcupine Tree song)
  14. Index
     
  15. My Book of Regrets
     
             Insurgentes
  16.  
  17. Harmony Korine
     
  18. Don't Hate Me
    (Porcupine Tree song)
  19. Vermillioncore
     
  20. Sleep Together
    (Porcupine Tree song)
  21. Encore:
  22. Sign “☮” the Times
    (Prince cover)
  23. The Sound of Muzak
    (Porcupine Tree song)
  24. The Raven That Refused to Sing
 
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Incredible set list there.  Good to see he is still playing a few PT shows at each show. 

I love Hand Cannot Erase, but I prefer The Raven to it, and Grace for Drowning, too. All three are fantastic, however.  :thumbup:   :thumbup:

 
The new Blackfield album is forth coming and I expect it to be their best yet.

 
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Congratulations to Yes on their upcoming induction to the RnR HoF.  It's a shame Squire didn't live to see it.

Prog is kind of dead to me now but Yes played a part in my personal rock n roll journey (no pun intended) and prog is a genre that's overdue for some recognition.  I would have preferred King Crimson to Yes because I think they've remained more innovative and vital over the decades but Yes was inarguably a bigger band in their heyday.  It also would be worth tuning in to hear Fripp's induction speech.

 
Well, I did say a style of rock, and I would not categorize Prince or Graham Central Station as rock artists per se: Funkadelic is more soul and funk, no?  Not to mention that certain bands are labeled differently now than they were back then or would be now.  For example, the prog tag wasn't used till much later, and even some have a tough time calling a band like Pink Floyd progressive, since their sound and style was more rooted in psychedelic rock, but they were certainly a progressive band in the most literal sense of the word, so they almost always get the prog tag now, even if they were never called that back in the day. 
Agree about Prince and GCS, more soul/funk, though Larry Graham (claimed his Grandmother taught him his signature slap bass technique) came from Sly Stone, an amalgam of pop/rock/soul/funk and purveyor of multi-culti sounds like Santana and War. Even further back, pianist Jelly Roll Martin certainly didn't INVENT jazz as he boasted, though he played an important role in some of the first jazz TRANSCRIPTIONS, and he noted the Spanish tinge about a century ago, Duke Ellington performed Caravan and Dizzy Gillespie incorporated Afro-Cuban rhythms.

My favorite Sly - Thank You (Falettinme Be Mice Elf Agin), Larry Graham's monstrously BUMPIN bass line, a circa late '69 single released on his '70 Greatest Hits album  

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N5BP2KlPD4U

By the time of There's A Riot Goin' On (late '71), Graham had departed, Sly retreated behind a mountain of cocaine, blizzard of reverb and wah wah and largely his beat box overdubs, crafting his dark (and one of his last) masterpiece.  

Africa Talks To You

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0R15zKDvYus

Thank You for Talkin' to Me Africa

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jXSM6f1epg8

Funkadelic did play soul/funk, but to me were more about the delic. The Parliament side of the P-Funk equation definitely represented the more soul/funk side of the equation, with more emphasis on the bass, the late visionary Bernie Worrell's ingenious synth arrangements as well as ex-James Brown band leaders Maceo Parker and Fred Wesley (a.k.a. The Horny Horns). My three favorite Funkadelic songs are Maggot Brain, Cosmic Slop and Red Hot Momma (love the Pedro Bell covers on the latter two replete with the possibly Sun Ra inspired Afronaut iconography), with a decidedly rock guitar emphasis. The late electric guitar wizard/pioneer Eddie Hazel displayed a virtual Hendrix-like mastery of feedback, and a few members of that band may have been acid casualties. Stax soul expert/authority Rob Bowman did a series of great liner notes for Funkadelic's albums, with the best being a lengthy essay (though you basically need a scanning electron microscope to read it! :) ) for the two CD singles compilation, Music For Your Mother.    

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JOKn33-q4Ao

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H6SS7JDVRo0

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GeNkRuYHy8k 

* As for Pink Floyd, I just never thought of them in the same category as obvious prog bands such as King Crimson, ELP, Genesis and Yes, but understand why they are categorized that way by many (Moody Blues and Hawkwind aren't always as obvious, either).         

 
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Pink Floyd is in a category by themselves.

It's Floyd.

Much like the way I think about Rush from 2112 (Caress Of Steel was baby 2112) onward. Just in their own solar system.

Same with Yes.....they really had their own thing going. Such a distinct sound between all the members. Amazing band in their hey day.

 
Yes inducted into the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame last night.  The Hall is a sham, but still nice to see them get their due.  Them playing Roundabout with Geddy Lee on bass was pretty cool.  :thumbup:   :thumbup:

 
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I have heard some Steven Wilson through a one time PT phase, but more recently through his masterful surround sound re-mixing/mastering of much of the classic program catalog - King Crimson, Yes, Jethro Tull (and to a lesser extent, ELP, not that they were a lesser prog band, but I think he only did the first two and may have had some kind of falling out with the band?).

The 5.1 surround sound (also with stereo, both in hi res 96/24 audio) Blu-ray of The Raven That Refused To Sing has been a revelation, I've probably listened to it more than a half dozen times in the past few weeks. The first song is so much like something from KC circa In The Court Of The Crimson King it is uncanny. Wilson has worked closely with Fripp on their extensive back catalog re-issue campaign, and I think plays one of the mellotrons from their seminal prog debut album (synth/keys wizard Tony Banks of Genesis claimed they bought one from KC around Nursery Cryme or Foxtrot?). TRTRTS also has an approx. 25 minute doc of the studio recording sessions. Definitely going to also get the Blu-Ray 5.1 surround sound counterpart of Hand. Cannot. Erase. on the strength of TRTRTS (I also need to give a YouTube listen to 4.5 [[?]], also available in that format).

* A name I haven't thought about in a while is Texas guitarist Eric Johnson (made a handful of albums, enjoyed some early success but didn't seem to translate to the sustained kind, and probably haven't heard in close to a few decades), one of the most technically fluid players I've ever heard, arguably superior to Zappa guitarist Steve Vai. Wilson may be AT LEAST as fluent technically on his instrument/s.

 
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* A name I haven't thought about in a while is Texas guitarist Eric Johnson (made a handful of albums, enjoyed some early success but didn't seem to translate to the sustained kind, and probably haven't heard in close to a few decades), one of the most technically fluid players I've ever heard, arguably superior to Zappa guitarist Steve Vai. Wilson may be AT LEAST as fluent technically on his instrument/s.
Eric Johnson still tours smaller clubs, well worth checking out live.

 
I have heard some Steven Wilson through a one time PT phase, but more recently through his masterful surround sound re-mixing/mastering of much of the classic program catalog - King Crimson, Yes, Jethro Tull (and to a lesser extent, ELP, not that they were a lesser prog band, but I think he only did the first two and may have had some kind of falling out with the band?).

The 5.1 surround sound (also with stereo, both in hi res 96/24 audio) Blu-ray of The Raven That Refused To Sing has been a revelation, I've probably listened to it more than a half dozen times in the past few weeks. The first song is so much like something from KC circa In The Court Of The Crimson King it is uncanny. Wilson has worked closely with Fripp on their extensive back catalog re-issue campaign, and I think plays one of the mellotrons from their seminal prog debut album (synth/keys wizard Tony Banks of Genesis claimed they bought one from KC around Nursery Cryme or Foxtrot?). TRTRTS also has an approx. 25 minute doc of the studio recording sessions. Definitely going to also get the Blu-Ray 5.1 surround sound counterpart of Hand. Cannot. Erase. on the strength of TRTRTS (I also need to give a YouTube listen to 4.5 [[?]], also available in that format).

* A name I haven't thought about in a while is Texas guitarist Eric Johnson (made a handful of albums, enjoyed some early success but didn't seem to translate to the sustained kind, and probably haven't heard in close to a few decades), one of the most technically fluid players I've ever heard, arguably superior to Zappa guitarist Steve Vai. Wilson may be AT LEAST as fluent technically on his instrument/s.
Seriously brilliant album.

You owe it to yourself to do the same with the 5.1 of Hand Cannot Erase. Just an amazing work of art as well.

 
Waiting for Opeth to come on, Devin Townsend Project and Gojira already played. DTP is my new "holy ####! Where have I been all their life! " band.  Short but fantastic set.

 
Devin Townsend is most awesome.  Saw him last Tuesday and he rocked our balls off.  His body of work is both prolific and highly impressive. He's a desert island artist for me now. 

 
Any DTP album recommendations?
He can be an acquired taste (I list Devin as a single artist, even though some are solo albums, some are under the Devin Townsend Project name, etc.). 

Terria is probably still his best single work to date, but it can be a tough place to start for a new listener. 

I think Addicted and Epicloud, two of his newer albums, are good starts (both have a lot of catchy metal tunes, although the screaming of the first song on Addicted or the denseness of True North from Epicloud might throw you off at first). 

2006's Accelerated Evolution (under the Devin Townsend Band name) is probably his most instantly accessible "older" work. 

Most agree that Physicist is his least best work, so avoid that one like it's got the clap. 

Infinity was an instant winner for me.  It's like a Broadway metal musical on crack. 

I normally am not a fan of crazy metal or screaming vocals (which Devin does sometimes), but his music is so awesome and he is such a great songwriter that I am normally fine with it when he does either (although some of his speed metal tunes are usually my least favorite ones).  Unlike his old band Strapping Young Lad, which was crazy speed metal, Devin's solo/DTP work is heavy in a less fast kind of way, for lack of a better term. 

 
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