Nothing yet... if I hear anything I'll be sure to post it here.Yes, I read that already. It doesn;t answer the question. I was wondering if anyone had any more news out of steelers OTAs about him. Is he running with 1st team, 2nd team, is he returning kicks etc.
linkWhen the Eagles reconvene at Lehigh on July 26 (the OTAs end today), Ted Daisher will have some interesting decisions to make in his return game. He has said incumbents DeSean Jackson (punts) and Quintin Demps (kickoffs) will have first crack at the jobs. But if Jackson and Demps end up starting at wideout and free safety, as now seems likely, they probably will not end up doing a lot of returning, especially since the Eagles seem to be deeper in potential candidates there than at any time in recent memory. "They're still first on our list," Daisher said. "All of that will be relative to their role on our team. Jeremy Maclin's done a nice job on punt and kick return. Ellis Hobbs has done a terrific job as a kick returner. We're pleased with all those guys." Kicker David Akers, an Eagle since 1999, said the return talent is what you can really get excited about now - the rest of it, you need to see guys in pads, maybe even in preseason games, to have any idea how they'll stack up. "We have some possibilities on returns that are just phenomenal, more so than we've had in the past," Akers said. "It's exciting to sit back and watch and see how it'll all evolve.
linkDespite improving from 20 receptions in 2007 to 51 last season and increasing his receiving yardage from 299 to 665, Devin Hester was disappointed in his 2008 performance. He did not have a single return touchdown after scoring seven times on punt returns and four times on kickoff returns in his first two seasons. Hester's punt-return average of 6.2 yards was less than half the 14.1 yards he averaged in his first two seasons, and he lost the kickoff-return job to Danieal Manning midway through the season. "I hate to say it, but the season that I had last year wasn't up to my high expectations," Hester said. "This year, I'm coming out trying to be better than I was the first two years. My goal is to just come out and make big plays like I normally do." The proof of Hester's subpar 2008 has been staring him in the face all offseason. "I was kind of getting upset because when they show commercials on ESPN and NFL Network, I'm not one of the players they show,” he said. "I know there's a reason why: because of the season I had last year. This year, hopefully during the middle of the season, I'll be on some of those commercials."
That would be awesome!Some great info in here Mike. Can you do a ranking of how you see the KR/PRs right now?![]()
JACKSONVILLE
KR – Brian Witherspoon, Maurice Jones-Drew, Mike Thomas, Troy Williamson, Montell Owens, Scott Starks
As an undrafted rookie out of Stillman College in 2008, DB Brian Witherspoon was a long shot to make the team. But he did, using his speed to secure the return specialist role. He went on to average 24.0 yards on 52 kickoff returns.
As a rookie in 2006, RB Maurice Drew did an excellent job on kickoff returns (31 returns, 27.7 avg., 1 TD). In 2007 he essentially had a repeat performance (31 returns, 26.2 avg., 1 TD). Last year (13 returns, 21.6 avg.) he supplemented Witherspoon. He may not continue in that role, presuming that he will be even busier on offense this year. Fourth round draft pick WR Mike Thomas out of Arizona averaged 22.6 yards on kickoff returns last year. WR Troy Williamson begin 2006 as the Vikings starting kickoff returner (14 returns, 23.1 avg.), but was eventually replaced by Bethel Johnson. With the Jaguars last year he returned a few kicks (4 returns, 21.0 avg.). Backups/Upmen include DB Scott Starks (5 returns, 16.2 avg. in 2007) and RB Montell Owens (2 returns, 15.0 avg. in 2008).
PR - Brian Witherspoon, Mike Thomas, Derek Cox, Maurice Jones-Drew, Dennis Northcutt, Rashean Mathis
Brian Witherspoon averaged 11.3 yards on punt returns last year, and finished as the 11th ranked fantasy returner despite missing two games due to injury. Like many players after their long rookie year, he spent the off-season working on conditioning. Witherspoon won’t be able to rest, with two capable rookies behind him. Mike Thomas’ 13.5 yard average on punt returns last year was 15th in the NCAA, and he also scored twice. Third round draft pick CB Derek Cox out of William & Mary also scored twice on punt returns last year. Maurice Jones-Drew led the NCAA in punt return average (28.5 yards) in 2005, and returned three for TDs. He’s had limited punt return opportunities since joining the NFL (7 returns, 9.9 avg. last year). WR Dennis Northcutt was one of the best punt returners in the league during his seven years with the Browns, averaging 10.6 yards per return. He scored three TDs, and had quite a few others negated by penalty. Last year with the Jaguars last year he averaged only 2.8 yards on 5 returns. CB Rashean Mathis has been used sparingly on punt returns by the Jaguars (one or two a year); however he has experience from back in college at Bethune-Cookman (55 returns, 11.6 avg., 2 TDs).
The Jaguars have ranked 20th, 24th, and 20th in fantasy returns the last three years.
I'll see if I can come up with something along those lines in the next week or two. If I don't post anything by the 4th of July, feel free to nag me.Some great info in here Mike. Can you do a ranking of how you see the KR/PRs right now?![]()
Any homers have any more insight into this? Hobbs was KR1 at NE, and racked up lots of points doing so. Sounds like his value might be taking a big hit here.PHILADELPHIA
linkWhen the Eagles reconvene at Lehigh on July 26 (the OTAs end today), Ted Daisher will have some interesting decisions to make in his return game. He has said incumbents DeSean Jackson (punts) and Quintin Demps (kickoffs) will have first crack at the jobs. But if Jackson and Demps end up starting at wideout and free safety, as now seems likely, they probably will not end up doing a lot of returning, especially since the Eagles seem to be deeper in potential candidates there than at any time in recent memory. "They're still first on our list," Daisher said. "All of that will be relative to their role on our team. Jeremy Maclin's done a nice job on punt and kick return. Ellis Hobbs has done a terrific job as a kick returner. We're pleased with all those guys." Kicker David Akers, an Eagle since 1999, said the return talent is what you can really get excited about now - the rest of it, you need to see guys in pads, maybe even in preseason games, to have any idea how they'll stack up. "We have some possibilities on returns that are just phenomenal, more so than we've had in the past," Akers said. "It's exciting to sit back and watch and see how it'll all evolve.
Just from my experience in return leagues, I believe that Hobbs will be the primary KR and Maclin will be the primary PR. The only reason Daisher has to say that Demps and Jackson hold the jobs is to motivate the other return guys to step up to the plate. Many times teams just don't have enough talent and HAVE to use their best players on the KR/PR, even if they are full-time starters. The Eagles have set up a scenario (due to offseason acquisitions) where as good as Demps and Jackson are, they have so much return talent that those guys will not need to be a part of the return game. Given that, I would bet more money on Hobbs having the KR role than Maclin being the PR role, because we just don't know how Maclin will respond to the NFL game.jpeace121 said:Any homers have any more insight into this? Hobbs was KR1 at NE, and racked up lots of points doing so. Sounds like his value might be taking a big hit here.PHILADELPHIA
linkWhen the Eagles reconvene at Lehigh on July 26 (the OTAs end today), Ted Daisher will have some interesting decisions to make in his return game. He has said incumbents DeSean Jackson (punts) and Quintin Demps (kickoffs) will have first crack at the jobs. But if Jackson and Demps end up starting at wideout and free safety, as now seems likely, they probably will not end up doing a lot of returning, especially since the Eagles seem to be deeper in potential candidates there than at any time in recent memory. "They're still first on our list," Daisher said. "All of that will be relative to their role on our team. Jeremy Maclin's done a nice job on punt and kick return. Ellis Hobbs has done a terrific job as a kick returner. We're pleased with all those guys." Kicker David Akers, an Eagle since 1999, said the return talent is what you can really get excited about now - the rest of it, you need to see guys in pads, maybe even in preseason games, to have any idea how they'll stack up. "We have some possibilities on returns that are just phenomenal, more so than we've had in the past," Akers said. "It's exciting to sit back and watch and see how it'll all evolve.
+1I'll see if I can come up with something along those lines in the next week or two. If I don't post anything by the 4th of July, feel free to nag me.Some great info in here Mike. Can you do a ranking of how you see the KR/PRs right now?![]()
I would think that Maclin is one that gets a little bump due to return ability. Mike Thomas from Jax is another one.linkGREEN BAYROOKIE IMPRESSIONS: The Vikings selected WR Percy Harvin with their first-round pick despite questions about his character. The fact he reportedly tested positive for marijuana at the NFL Scouting Combine did not help matters. But once Harvin participated in offseason practices it became clear why the Vikings were willing to take the risk. Harvin already appears to be one of the best athletes on the Vikings and the fact he could end up being used on punt and kickoff returns makes him that much more valuable.
INJURY WATCH: CB Charles Gordon suffered a gruesome season-ending injury to his ankle and leg last November while attempting to return a punt against Green Bay. Gordon continues to rehab the injury and is not back on the field yet. When he does get back, he will attempt to compete for a job in the Vikings’ nickel defense. Gordon was being used in that role before getting hurt.
linkShawn Slocum is taking the Green Bay Packers back to basics on kick returns, and why shouldn’t he? No team has fared worse on them in recent years than the Packers, whose 20.10-yard average last season again put them at the bottom of the NFL. Working as departed coordinator Mike Stock’s assistant, Slocum had a first-hand look at what players say they saw: a unit featuring too many guys who either didn’t understand the fundamentals of special-teams blocking or simply failed to execute. So, it should be no surprise there has been a noticeable difference in how players are being drilled this offseason, with Slocum shrinking down everything to one-on-one battles and focusing on technique. “Last year or even in previous years, (players) were just given the return, as opposed to Coach Slocum is actually teaching the guys technique on how to block the guy,” return man Will Blackmon said last week. “They can just follow what’s on the sheet and run over there — (but) it doesn’t mean necessarily they’re going to make the block. It seems that simple, and yet it’s not that simple.” Which is one reason a returner as dangerous as Blackmon can go an entire season without breaking one longer than 45 yards. Unlike the controlled chaos of punt returns — on which Blackmon has a respectable 11.5-yard average and three touchdowns in his career — there is little room for free-lancing on kick returns, which require the returner to hit precise aiming points behind his blockers. If one blocker misses his mark, the play can be blown to bits.
Coach Mike McCarthy met with Slocum soon after promoting him in January and made clear the kick-return game had to become a strength, rather than a major weakness that contributed to the Packers’ 4-yard deficit in average starting field position last season. What Slocum is asking blockers to do isn’t complicated — get square on a man, making it harder for him to come off and giving the returner the option to cut either way — but it’s far from a given that he can turn around a unit that has struggled so badly for so long. The Packers ranked dead last on kick returns in 2005 (18.9-yard average) and 31st in 2006 (19.7), Stock’s first season with the Packers. They improved slightly during their 2007 playoff season, ranking 22nd with a 21.8-yard average and getting 60-plus-yard returns from Tramon Williams and Koren Robinson. But they plummeted again in 2008, ranking dead last in average and extending their streak to eight seasons without a kick-return touchdown. “Last year, we lacked in some of the areas, like blocking and setting up your guy to block him,” linebacker Danny Lansanah said. “That’s been a big emphasis this offseason.” The drop-off in the kick return game coincided with an overall drop-off in the Packers’ special-teams play last season, preceding Stock’s retirement on Jan. 2. Along the way, they cut special-teams ace Tracy White; lost another core special teamer, Kenny Pettway, to a season-ending injury; and fielded a revolving cast on the coverage and return units, as a slew of injuries elevated other core special-teamers into expanded roles on offense or defense. What remained was a group with no clear leader and many contributors unaccustomed to extensive special-teams duty. It was evident in several phases but especially on kick returns, where the combined average for Blackmon and Jordy Nelson dipped from 21.6 in the season’s first half to 19.9 in the second.
Slocum, who, at age 44, is a quarter-century younger than Stock, also has aimed to create accountability by making players see special teams as part of the big picture. His catchphrase in the meeting rooms and on the practice field is “click in” — as in the sound a chinstrap makes when a player clips it to his helmet before a play. “Coach Slocum did a good job of getting us to buy in to what he’s teaching us,” Lansanah said. “He’s a young coach, and he gets in there with you. He gets motivated off us. I think that plays a big part.” An NFL rule change barring three-man wedges will spread out every team’s kick returns this season. Slocum hasn’t tipped his hand about other schematic changes, only saying that he wants to make opponents defend the entire field and be “predictably unpredictable.” It starts with the 10 guys in front of Blackmon, who is in line to remain the primary kick returner for a second straight season. “I’ve seen a great returner back there with guys in front not doing well, and he wasn’t productive,” said Slocum, a 15-year college coaching veteran before joining McCarthy’s staff in 2006. “I’ve seen an average returner back there with guys in front of him doing a great job blocking, and he’s productive. It’s just a function of everyone working together.”
linkDevin Hester..., who surrendered his kickoff return duties to Danieal Manning last season, said he would be willing to give up punt returns, too ... just not immediately. "I think a return man simply has to be a return man,’’ Hester said. "There’s really no other position he should go out and play. A return man is a totally different ball game from trying to be a return man and starting receiver, or the starting cornerback, or a starting safety. I don’t think it’s going to work. That’s why you never really see it last that long in the NFL. You can’t do it. But with me right now, I feel like at punt returns there are going to be opportunities where we’re going to need big returns,’’ he continued. "With all the success we’ve had at the return game, it would be real crazy to just give it up now. Plus I’m looking to break this record. In the back of my mind, I’ve got to get this record before I give (punt returns) up.’’
Hester displayed a confident smile as he completed his thought. He enters the 2009 season with 11 career kick returns for touchdowns (not counting the opening kickoff in the Super Bowl or the return of a missed field goal), two shy of the record held by Brian Mitchell. Although shattering the mark would be a great personal achievement, Hester understands that his team often feeds off his electric returns. The Bears went 9-2 in games Hester returned a kick for a score. But Hester was unable to break one for a touchdown last season as his continued to evolve as a receiver. "Me being partially the guy last year and doing returns, it was real tough on me,’’ he said. "It’s a tiring thing. You’re running eight, nine plays in a row and you’re going deep. Then you come back on punt returns, kickoff returns, and you don’t have any juice back there. It’s a beast. You see guys show glimpses of it, but they never had a full return game. Look at Deion Sanders, a great returner, but you never saw him take over the full job as punt returner and kickoff returner. You can’t do it. Steve Smith (Carolina) came in as a great kickoff/punt returner. Now that he's got that role at receiver, he didn’t have any juice (to return). It’s tough.’’
With Hester touted as the team’s No. 1 receiver, one would think relieving him of punt returns would be the next step. Time will tell as the Bears get deep into the season. Rookie D.J. Moore could be a capable replacement in the future. Nathan Vasher had six punt returns last season, second behind Hester’s 32. What might make matters more intriguing is the development of the defense. If Lovie Smith’s crew regains its swagger, then there could be a lot of three-and-out situations, meaning more punt returns for Hester. That might not be an ideal situation if Hester is quarterback Jay Cutler’s go-to guy. "Everybody’s saying receiver this, receiver that,’’ Hester said. ``I think it really starts with the quarterback and the offensive line, and we have both. I feel like we’re going to be a better team than we were last year. I look for big things. Hopefully, we will win the Super Bowl.’’
linkWide receiver/kick returner Joshua Cribbs doesn’t plan to play a game for the Browns under the terms of his current contract. But Cribbs, who has four years remaining on a six-year, $6.7 million contract, hopes a deal can be worked out by the start of the regular season, according to a person with knowledge of the situation. Cribbs’ representatives are expected to meet with Browns coach Eric Mangini and general manager George Kokinis next week to discuss reworking the contract. What transpires at that meeting could dictate Cribbs’ next course of action. A holdout, trade demand or leaving training camp at some point are all possibilities, but reaching a compromise on a new contract before things get to those points are the goal, the source said. Cribbs is one of the NFL’s top kick returners and a versatile offensive weapon who can play wide receiver or come out of the backfield. The Browns also have experimented with using Cribbs some at safety during offseason workouts. Cribbs said that the Browns’ previous regime of GM Phil Savage and coach Romeo Crennel promised to re-do his contract, but they were fired. Mangini and Kokinis said they aren’t beholden to any commitments made by the prior administration.
linkRich Cimini, of the New York Daily News, reports New York Jets RB Leon Washington said he still does not know if he will report to training camp on time or hold out because of the unhappiness with his contract. 'I do not know. Honestly, the situation is pretty much the same as it was in minicamp (last month). We're at a standstill. Not a standstill, but nothing has really changed,' Washington said.
TIER RANKINGS
Here’s my first stab at grouping the returners into tiers of relative value, to get the discussion started. It gives KR higher value over PR. It does not take offensive or defensive production into account. Wide open competitions or likely return-by-committee situations are not ranked.
2. KR & PR
CB Chris Carr, Bal
WR Derrick Williams, Det (return specialist is the rookies job to lose)
CB Will Blackmon, GB
DB Brian Witherspoon, Jac
DB Allen Rossum, SF
WR Derek Stanley, STL
WR Mark Jones, Ten
5. KR ONLY
RB Jerious Norwood, Atl
WR Andre Caldwell, Cin
RB Felix Jones, Dal
WR Andre Davis, Hou
RB Dantrell Savage, KC
WR Ted Ginn Jr., Mia
WR Courtney Roby, NO
CB Ellis Hobbs, Phi
CB Josh Wilson, Sea
RB Rock Cartwright, Was
Got a list of these guys?This is a great thread every year, especially for IDP players where DBs who are also returners are golden. Thanks for this, Mike.
Can't believe I missed this. Awesome stuff. Thank you Mike Herman!TIER RANKINGS
Here’s my first stab at grouping the returners into tiers of relative value, to get the discussion started. It gives KR higher value over PR. It does not take offensive or defensive production into account. Wide open competitions or likely return-by-committee situations are not ranked.
1. ELITE KR & PR
WR Josh Cribbs, Cle
RB Leon Washington, NYJ
RB Darren Sproles, SD
RB Clifton Smith, TB
2. KR & PR
CB Chris Carr, Bal
WR Derrick Williams, Det (return specialist is the rookies job to lose)
CB Will Blackmon, GB
DB Brian Witherspoon, Jac
DB Allen Rossum, SF
WR Derek Stanley, STL
WR Mark Jones, Ten
3. ELITE KR
CB Leodis McKelvin, Buf
DB Danieal Manning, Chi
CB Justin Miller, Oak
4. ELITE PR
WR Roscoe Parrish, Buf
WR Devin Hester, Chi
WR Jacoby Jones, Hou
RB Reggie Bush, NO
WR Johnnie Lee Higgins, Oak
5. KR ONLY
RB Jerious Norwood, Atl
WR Andre Caldwell, Cin
RB Felix Jones, Dal
WR Andre Davis, Hou
RB Dantrell Savage, KC
WR Ted Ginn Jr., Mia
WR Courtney Roby, NO
CB Ellis Hobbs, Phi
CB Josh Wilson, Sea
RB Rock Cartwright, Was
6. PR ONLY
WR Steve Breaston, Ari (could also handle KR, but probably won’t)
WR Harry Douglas, Atl
WR Eddie Royal, Den
WR Davone Bess, Mia
WR Wes Welker, NE
7. ROOKIE CANDIDATES TO WATCH
WR Larry Beavers, Car
WR Quan Cosby, Cin
WR Quinten Lawrence, KC
WR Jeremy Maclin, Phi
CB Joe Burnett, Pit
In the FBG Training Camp Update, first issue this season, it talks about the Cardinal's desire to possibly move KR duties off of Breaston's plate. Is there not an open competition right now for that lead KR role?Mon, Aug 3Head coach Ken Whisenhunt indicated on Monday that Breaston will serve as Arizona's primary kickoff and punt returner this season, the Cardinals' official site reports.
http://azcardinals.com/news/detail.php?PRKey=3092I've got Breaston in both my return leagues... I am hoping for big things.In the FBG Training Camp Update, first issue this season, it talks about the Cardinal's desire to possibly move KR duties off of Breaston's plate. Is there not an open competition right now for that lead KR role?Mon, Aug 3
Head coach Ken Whisenhunt indicated on Monday that Breaston will serve as Arizona's primary kickoff and punt returner this season, the Cardinals' official site reports.
The Training Camp Update was written a day or two before Whisenhunt's statement was published. Although it still wouldn't surprise me to see Breaston's involvement on kickoffs be limited during the regular season, IF someone surfaces during the preseason that can return kickoffs at the level Arrington did.http://azcardinals.com/news/detail.php?PRKey=3092I've got Breaston in both my return leagues... I am hoping for big things.In the FBG Training Camp Update, first issue this season, it talks about the Cardinal's desire to possibly move KR duties off of Breaston's plate. Is there not an open competition right now for that lead KR role?Mon, Aug 3
Head coach Ken Whisenhunt indicated on Monday that Breaston will serve as Arizona's primary kickoff and punt returner this season, the Cardinals' official site reports.