PVS: Post Vaccination Syndrome (5 Viewers)

[LawFitz]

***Please, Please, Please***

Keep this conversation civil, respectful and non-partisan. Healthcare and its discusssion should never be political!

A just-released Yale University study points to the striking similarities between 'Long Covid' and 'Covid Vax Injuries', aka Post-Vax Syndrome...

Yale Researchers Find COVID Spike Protein in Blood 709 Days After Vaccination, Positing Millions of Long COVID Patients May Actually Be Vaccine Injured

NIH has poured $1.6 billion into Long COVID research, but little or nothing to study vaccine harms, causing patient advocates to hide vaccine injury.

disinformationchronicle.substack.com

So many theories have emerged about MRNA- and DNA-based Covid vaxxes and their effects on living beings that it warrants conversation well beyond Covid, considering MRNA vax research is currently ongoing with the intent to expand that medical tech into many other illnesses.

Can we have such conversation?... In this thread, without becoming political or disrespectful can we please discuss this topic?

 

[LawFitz]

BTW, in the last 18 mos, I've witnessed...

- My best friend's mom stoke and become a vegetable,

- My FIL and Uncle-in-law die from Turbo cancer.

All of them, heavily vaccinated, and two of them in very good health until 2021-22.

Closest anecdotes. I've so many more further around me. Condolences to any others of you who do as well.

 

[rockaction]

Public health is inherently political. That's the trouble you're going to run into trying to keep this out of the realm of politics. Public health concerns large populations and how to best manage the health of large populations in the best way we know how. That involves a political decision-making process.

Indeed, the first link you've posted is also inherently political. From a glance it offers up an amount used to study Long Covid research while bemoaning the lack of funding for studying vaccine harms. That's done at a grant level and the NIH is a political organization. It's a part of HHS which is part of the executive branch, and we know how political that just got, has been, and is.

It's almost as if you want a political discussion after all!

 

[The Z Machine]

I will say that there's a difference between public health discussions and clinical health discussions.

The former often involves politics through the interaction of population level effects, the organizations involved in implementing public health policy, the rights of the individuals within the population, and the funding to enact population level actions.

The latter involves the health outcomes of individuals and the mechanisms that affect those health outcomes. Much more biology, physiology, and medicine.

Public health is not medicine. If we keep this topic on medical as opposed to policy, I think it should be OK here at FBG.

 

[The Z Machine]

And I'm all for studying the possible effects of mRNA vaccines on individuals and the potential to cause harm. It's a relatively new technology for vaccine development and deserves to be studied in depth.

Also, @LawFitz , I'm sorry for the health problems in your family. My condolences. I probably should have started off with that statement...

 

[Mitchie]

It seems to be quite rare, also the study is small sample size of 42 people.

Researchers Describe Rare Syndrome After COVID Vaccine

Long-lasting spike protein, immune changes seen in post-vaccination syndrome

www.medpagetoday.com

 

[Ilov80s]

BTW, in the last 18 mos, I've witnessed...

- My best friend's mom stoke and become a vegetable,

- My FIL and Uncle-in-law die from Turbo cancer.

All of them, heavily vaccinated, and two of them in very good health until 2021-22.

Closest anecdotes. I've so many more further around me. Condolences to any others of you who do as well.

I’m sorry for your loss. That’s very sad. What is turbo cancer? Was that the official diagnosis from doctors? I’ve never heard of it.

 

[Joe Schmo]

BTW, in the last 18 mos, I've witnessed...

- My best friend's mom stoke and become a vegetable,

- My FIL and Uncle-in-law die from Turbo cancer.

All of them, heavily vaccinated, and two of them in very good health until 2021-22.

Closest anecdotes. I've so many more further around me. Condolences to any others of you who do as well.

I’m sorry for your loss. That’s very sad. What is turbo cancer? Was that the official diagnosis from doctors? I’ve never heard of it.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Turbo_cancer

 

[Sparky Polastri]

***Please, Please, Please***

Keep this conversation civil, respectful and non-partisan. Healthcare and its discusssion should never be political!

A just-released Yale University study points to the striking similarities between 'Long Covid' and 'Covid Vax Injuries', aka Post-Vax Syndrome...

Yale Researchers Find COVID Spike Protein in Blood 709 Days After Vaccination, Positing Millions of Long COVID Patients May Actually Be Vaccine Injured

NIH has poured $1.6 billion into Long COVID research, but little or nothing to study vaccine harms, causing patient advocates to hide vaccine injury.

disinformationchronicle.substack.com

So many theories have emerged about MRNA- and DNA-based Covid vaxxes and their effects on living beings that it warrants conversation well beyond Covid, considering MRNA vax research is currently ongoing with the intent to expand that medical tech into many other illnesses.

Can we have such conversation?... In this thread, without becoming political or disrespectful can we please discuss this topic?

When you start a thread with politics and conspiracy theory type terms like "turbo cancer", it's going to be political. If you stick to the peer reviewed studies and data, there shouldn't be a problem keeping politics out of it. If you insist on just sitting in the realm of theories, there's no shot.

With that said, are there any peer reviewed studies at your disposal that support these theories? This is my realm of study and I haven't seen a single one.

 

[beef]

BTW, in the last 18 mos, I've witnessed...

- My best friend's mom stoke and become a vegetable,

- My FIL and Uncle-in-law die from Turbo cancer.

All of them, heavily vaccinated, and two of them in very good health until 2021-22.

Closest anecdotes. I've so many more further around me. Condolences to any others of you who do as well.

Total opposite observation here. Everyone I know that is heavily vaccinated is and has been very healthy. Those unvaccinated are dealing with many health problems, strokes, and heart attacks.

 

[FiredMartz]

So they were healthy 4 years ago?.....father time waits for no man

 

[Hastur]

First, you should have linked to the actual study, not a website filled with whack job conspiracy theories.

Secondly, the study itself espouses how effective the vaccine has been to save millions of lives, and a small fraction reports a chronic debilitating condition.

From the actual study:
COVID-19 vaccines have prevented millions of COVID-19 deaths. Yet, a small fraction of the population reports a chronic debilitating condition after COVID-19 vaccination, often referred to as post- vaccination syndrome (PVS). To explore potential pathobiological features associated with PVS, we conducted a decentralized, cross-sectional study involving 42 PVS participants and 22 healthy controls enrolled in the Yale LISTEN study. Compared with controls, PVS participants exhibited differences in immune profiles, including reduced circulating memory and effector CD4 T cells (type 1 48 and type 2) and an increase in TNFα+ CD8 T cells. PVS participants also had lower anti-spike antibody titers, primarily due to fewer vaccine doses. Serological evidence of recent Epstein-Barr virus (EBV) reactivation was observed more frequently in PVS participants. Further, individuals with PVS exhibited elevated levels of circulating spike protein compared to healthy controls. These findings reveal potential immune differences in individuals with PVS that merit further investigation to better understand this condition and inform future research into diagnostic and therapeutic approaches.



Band Aids help small cuts and wounds, but you want to focus on how it hurts when you rip them off.

 

[Joe Bryant]

Questioning anything about vaccines has typically been taboo and not allowed.

People asking questions are usually instantly labeled an "Antivax conspiracy nuts".

That's unfortunate, as questioning and actual discussion are usually a good thing.

We can try to have an actual civil discussion in this thread.

But only if it's:

1. Supported with links. And of course, the more respected the sources, the better. Understand links from a highly biased source will not carry as much, if any weight.
2. Civil and not mocking others
3. Focused on the actual illness/effects and not political shots
4. Be accurate. Yes, you can talk about personal experience. But be clear. Something that happened to you is very different from soemthing you heard someone talking about happening. Be clear for the source.

 

[dkp993]

This is an incredibly complex issue involving cutting edge science with a wide range of outcomes only fully understood by a small subset of people, leaving the rest of us needing to interpret results. All of that alone would create division of opinions. But this also been tied hand in hand with politics from day one. It’s virtually impossible to not view it with some inherent bias at this point. Unless of course you are an immunologist specializing in mRNA research, of which I don’t think are here in FBG.

 

[ghostguy123]

I recall several of my fellow hospital staff workers ran into immediate health issues within a week after receiving the vaccine when it was first rolled out. Blood clots, arrhythmias.......

 

[ghostguy123]

Also, what does "heavily vaccinated" mean exactly?

 

[Ilov80s]

BTW, in the last 18 mos, I've witnessed...

- My best friend's mom stoke and become a vegetable,

- My FIL and Uncle-in-law die from Turbo cancer.

All of them, heavily vaccinated, and two of them in very good health until 2021-22.

Closest anecdotes. I've so many more further around me. Condolences to any others of you who do as well.

I’m sorry for your loss. That’s very sad. What is turbo cancer? Was that the official diagnosis from doctors? I’ve never heard of it.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Turbo_cancer

Unless someone has some other links, I would be very surprised if the medical field is diagnosing anything as turbo cancer. The sample size for one of the studies was 1 mouse and the authors of the study said it's results were being misrepresented.

 

[ghostguy123]

BTW, in the last 18 mos, I've witnessed...

- My best friend's mom stoke and become a vegetable,

- My FIL and Uncle-in-law die from Turbo cancer.

All of them, heavily vaccinated, and two of them in very good health until 2021-22.

Closest anecdotes. I've so many more further around me. Condolences to any others of you who do as well.

Total opposite observation here. Everyone I know that is heavily vaccinated is and has been very healthy. Those unvaccinated are dealing with many health problems, strokes, and heart attacks.

If anything, I might have observed the opposite of this.

However, when comparing vaccinated to unvaccinated, I'm also trying to take into account their overall health. For example, if 10 unhealthy people get the vaccine and 10 healthy people don't, it's not gonna be a shock if the 10 people who got that vaccine are going to have worse health than the others after a few years. It works other way also. If the 10 healthy people get the vaccine, the 10 unhealthy people are probably going to still be worse off than they were a couple years prior.

Of the people I know who never received a vaccine, they are all as healthy as they were back in 2019. As in, no new health issues have come up.

 

[Joe Bryant]

It's the age old causation / correlation thing, right?

I developed a blood clot in my leg after getting the initial COVID vaccine when it was first available. It was the first clot I'd ever had. Although my mother had them. Was it from the vaccine or would it have happened anyway? Nobody knows. Does that prove anything? Of course not. But it was important to me.

My best friend is an MD and VERY Pro Vaccine suggested I not get additional boosters. So stuff like that is out there and something people think about.

 

[ghostguy123]

It's the age old causation / correlation thing, right?

I developed a blood clot in my leg after getting the initial COVID vaccine when it was first available. It was the first clot I'd ever had. Although my mother had them. Was it from the vaccine or would it have happened anyway? Nobody knows. Does that prove anything? Of course not. But it was important to me.

My best friend is an MD and VERY Pro Vaccine suggested I not get additional boosters. So stuff like that is out there and something people think about.

As far as I can gather, I've not seen any studies showing definitive obvious positive outcomes from taking the Covid Vaccine.
Which to me, call me crazy, but if that's the case then I'd advocate for not taking it, and especially for it not to be pushed by government/employers.
Now of course, when this was being pushed hard back in 2021 or whatever, little bit of a different scenario give the fear of the unknown regarding Covid. Long term studies weren't even possible back then.

That said, if anyone does happen to have a link to a legit study that shows obvious benefits to the masses by taking the vaccine, please link it. I have not seen one yet.

 

[titusbramble]

***Please, Please, Please***

Keep this conversation civil, respectful and non-partisan. Healthcare and its discusssion should never be political!

A just-released Yale University study points to the striking similarities between 'Long Covid' and 'Covid Vax Injuries', aka Post-Vax Syndrome...

Yale Researchers Find COVID Spike Protein in Blood 709 Days After Vaccination, Positing Millions of Long COVID Patients May Actually Be Vaccine Injured

NIH has poured $1.6 billion into Long COVID research, but little or nothing to study vaccine harms, causing patient advocates to hide vaccine injury.

disinformationchronicle.substack.com

So many theories have emerged about MRNA- and DNA-based Covid vaxxes and their effects on living beings that it warrants conversation well beyond Covid, considering MRNA vax research is currently ongoing with the intent to expand that medical tech into many other illnesses.

Can we have such conversation?... In this thread, without becoming political or disrespectful can we please discuss this topic?

When you start a thread with politics and conspiracy theory type terms like "turbo cancer", it's going to be political. If you stick to the peer reviewed studies and data, there shouldn't be a problem keeping politics out of it

It is kind of hard for there to be peer review studies into drugs which, in normal times, would still be in clinical trials

 

[Sparky Polastri]

People asking questions are usually instantly labeled an "Antivax conspiracy nuts"

That's not the case here. No one has called anyone a conspiracy theorist that I've seen. The sources linked are absolutely in the realm of conspiracy theories and need to be called out as such. That doesn't mean the person posting the link is a conspiracy theorist. They may just be ignorant to the facts or sources they are using.

ETA: This post may bite me in the butt as I haven't gotten to the end of the thread before commenting.

 

[Joe Schmo]

https://www.reuters.com/fact-check/...gnoses-predates-covid-19-vaccines-2025-01-20/

A news bulletin, opens new tab aired by Fox 45 News’ National News Desk, opens new tab interviewed Dr Paul Marik, co-founder, opens new tab of the Front Line COVID-19 Critical Care Alliance (FLCCC), whose certification was revoked, opens new tab by the American Board of Internal medicine
A section of the interview was shared widely, opens new tab on X, opens new tab and Facebook, opens new tab, including by the FLCCC, opens new tab.
Marik said that there is an “explosion” of cancer among people aged 14 to 44 in the U.S., UK and Japan associated with vaccination, “particularly the boosters” for the COVID-19 vaccine.
The term “turbo cancer”, often used by vaccine opponents linking the shots to accelerated forms of cancer, is not a medically established term, according to cancer specialists who previously spoke to Reuters.


http://globalvaccinedatanetwork.org/news/turbo_cancer_and_mrna_myth_that_defies_biology_and_physics



https://www.reuters.com/fact-check/...d-19-vaccines-not-declared-health-2024-11-15/

A DHSC spokesperson told Reuters via email the assertion it had declared a health crisis due to a spike in rare cancer diagnoses linked to COVID vaccines was "false and dangerous".
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"Unevidenced allegations like these serve only as a distraction from tackling the real issues behind cancer diagnosis," the spokesperson said.
There are no publicly available government statements that Reuters could find to support the claim that Britain declared a “turbo cancer health crisis".
Gigi Gronvall, immunology expert and senior scholar at the Johns Hopkins Center for Health Security, Nicky Thorp, a consultant clinical oncologist at the Christie Hospital, Manchester, and Professor Neil Mabbott, personal chair of immunopathology at the University of Edinburgh, told Reuters that "turbo cancer" was not a medically recognised term.
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“It is as made up as the crisis it is trying to create,” Gronvall said via email. Mabbott also said in an email: "There are no published studies or case descriptions in the medical literature that use this description."

 

[Sparky Polastri]

***Please, Please, Please***

Keep this conversation civil, respectful and non-partisan. Healthcare and its discusssion should never be political!

A just-released Yale University study points to the striking similarities between 'Long Covid' and 'Covid Vax Injuries', aka Post-Vax Syndrome...

Yale Researchers Find COVID Spike Protein in Blood 709 Days After Vaccination, Positing Millions of Long COVID Patients May Actually Be Vaccine Injured

NIH has poured $1.6 billion into Long COVID research, but little or nothing to study vaccine harms, causing patient advocates to hide vaccine injury.

disinformationchronicle.substack.com

So many theories have emerged about MRNA- and DNA-based Covid vaxxes and their effects on living beings that it warrants conversation well beyond Covid, considering MRNA vax research is currently ongoing with the intent to expand that medical tech into many other illnesses.

Can we have such conversation?... In this thread, without becoming political or disrespectful can we please discuss this topic?

When you start a thread with politics and conspiracy theory type terms like "turbo cancer", it's going to be political. If you stick to the peer reviewed studies and data, there shouldn't be a problem keeping politics out of it

It is kind of hard for there to be peer review studies into drugs which, in normal times, would still be in clinical trials

No it's not. This vaccine didn't take the normal unnecessarily drawn out path, but it has been tested now for 5 years on the largest, most diverse sample set than any other vaccine ever.

 

[Joe Schmo]

It's the age old causation / correlation thing, right?

I developed a blood clot in my leg after getting the initial COVID vaccine when it was first available. It was the first clot I'd ever had. Although my mother had them. Was it from the vaccine or would it have happened anyway? Nobody knows. Does that prove anything? Of course not. But it was important to me.

My best friend is an MD and VERY Pro Vaccine suggested I not get additional boosters. So stuff like that is out there and something people think about.

As far as I can gather, I've not seen any studies showing definitive obvious positive outcomes from taking the Covid Vaccine.
Which to me, call me crazy, but if that's the case then I'd advocate for not taking it, and especially for it not to be pushed by government/employers.
Now of course, when this was being pushed hard back in 2021 or whatever, little bit of a different scenario give the fear of the unknown regarding Covid. Long term studies weren't even possible back then.

That said, if anyone does happen to have a link to a legit study that shows obvious benefits to the masses by taking the vaccine, please link it. I have not seen one yet.

https://www.fda.gov/news-events/fda-voices/vaccines-covid-19-personal-reflection

Ecological analyses in multiple continents, countries,26 states,27and counties28 also demonstrated that the higher the rate of vaccination and updated vaccination in the population, the lower the rates of COVID-related death, serious illness, and hospitalization. Maintaining an up-to-date status confers a further reduction in risk for both outcomes. The Commonwealth Fund has estimated that COVID vaccines saved 3.2 million lives and over 18 million hospitalizations in the first 2 years in the U.S. alone, as well as saving over $1TT.29

 

[Joe Schmo]

For the record, in the last two years, my mid 80s parents are alive and well and have suffered no debilitating injuries or illnesses and they are completely vexed and get a Covid vaccine booster every year. Of my nine siblings and their spouses and children roughly 90% of them are at least four times vaxed and knock on wood, so far all have no long-term debilitating disease diseases or conditions. The vaccines are working great.

 

[Joe Schmo]

https://www.hopkinsmedicine.org/hea...avirus/covid-19-vaccine-what-you-need-to-know

Is natural immunity better than a vaccine?​

Natural immunity is the antibody protection your body creates against a germ once you’ve been infected with it. Natural immunity to the virus that causes COVID-19 is no better than vaccine-acquired immunity, and it comes with greater risks. Studies show that natural immunity to the virus weakens over time and does so faster than immunity provided by COVID-19 vaccination.

 

[nysfl2]

First, you should have linked to the actual study, not a website filled with whack job conspiracy theories.

Secondly, the study itself espouses how effective the vaccine has been to save millions of lives, and a small fraction reports a chronic debilitating condition.

From the actual study:
COVID-19 vaccines have prevented millions of COVID-19 deaths. Yet, a small fraction of the population reports a chronic debilitating condition after COVID-19 vaccination, often referred to as post- vaccination syndrome (PVS). To explore potential pathobiological features associated with PVS, we conducted a decentralized, cross-sectional study involving 42 PVS participants and 22 healthy controls enrolled in the Yale LISTEN study. Compared with controls, PVS participants exhibited differences in immune profiles, including reduced circulating memory and effector CD4 T cells (type 1 48 and type 2) and an increase in TNFα+ CD8 T cells. PVS participants also had lower anti-spike antibody titers, primarily due to fewer vaccine doses. Serological evidence of recent Epstein-Barr virus (EBV) reactivation was observed more frequently in PVS participants. Further, individuals with PVS exhibited elevated levels of circulating spike protein compared to healthy controls. These findings reveal potential immune differences in individuals with PVS that merit further investigation to better understand this condition and inform future research into diagnostic and therapeutic approaches.



Band Aids help small cuts and wounds, but you want to focus on how it hurts when you rip them off.

I dug into this a little to find the actual study, and it looks like it is published by a legit scientist who has done a lot of work studying long Covid. Very small sample size, but the findings are basically that people who report post-vaccination syndrome (PVS) have measurable differences in their blood that are similar to people who develop long Covid. The paper doesn't try to speculate on whether the vaccine caused the symptoms or how common these side effects may be. There's nothing in there that would support stuff like "my cousin was fine before getting the shot and developed turbo cancer a week later!".

It is worth looking in to in order to see if it is something vaccine-specific and can be improved in the future. Interestingly, the subjects were spread across the three vaccines (mostly Moderna and Pfizer, with a few J&J), and J&J was a very different technology than the other two. If the vaccine caused the symptoms, it's certainly possible that the individuals affected were predisposed to these symptoms for some reason, and would have developed similar issues through long Covid if they never got the vaccine.

 

[Sparky Polastri]

The body is not aware nor does it care if the antigen is in a virus or a vaccine. I said this probably a billion times in the COCID thread and it's still true. So, if someone has a bad reaction to the vaccine, it's likely to one of the ingredients used to stabilize it. For both the Pfizer and Moderna vaccines, the other ingredients are all ones found in the body naturally. This was one of the big breakthroughs with the vaccine. If we're being honest with ourselves, we'd understand if there was a significant ingredient problem, we'd have seen it by now. The one off pieces of evidence are real to the individual for sure but aren't evidence of a vaccine problem over specific immune systems (just like every other vaccine ever created)

 

[fatness]

What is turbo cancer?

"Turbo cancer is an anti-vaccination conspiracy theory alleging that people vaccinated against COVID-19, especially with mRNA vaccines, are suffering from a high incidence of fast-developing cancers. Although the idea has been spread by a number of vaccine opponents, including several health professionals, turbo cancer is not supported by cancer research, and there is no evidence that COVID-19 vaccination causes or worsens cancer."

 

[Joe Bryant]

People asking questions are usually instantly labeled an "Antivax conspiracy nuts"

That's not the case here. No one has called anyone a conspiracy theorist that I've seen.

Sorry to break it you, but that is the case here.

There are things you don't know. That was an actual quote that was deleted well before your post.

Not to mention, this thread was reported for us allowing the original post called "this kind of crap" to be allowed here.

Just because you haven't seen it doesn't mean it hasn't happened.

 

[Willie Neslon]

I'm all for major studies on everything but not for leaning into conspiracy theories. Those theories are usually light on facts and data and build on gossip and nonsense. I see a similarity between vaccines and self-driving cars. When a self-driving car crashes it makes front-page news. People freak out and say the technology isn’t safe even though the data shows they get into way fewer accidents than human drivers.

Same thing with vaccines. If someone has a bad reaction or in rare cases dies it’s a huge story. But no one talks about how many lives are saved because you can’t point to a specific person and say, “That guy would have died without it.” The failures get all the attention while the successes go unnoticed.

I know some people will die in self-driving car accidents and i know some will die from vaccines, but far more lives will be saved by having both. Instead of dismissing them for not being perfect we should focus on making them better. There will be setbacks along the way but that doesn’t mean we’re not on the right track. In the long run, future generations (maybe even ours) will be far healthier and safer because of these advancements.

 

[Joe Bryant]

I know some people will die in self-driving car accidents and i know some will die from vaccines, but far more lives will be saved by having both. Instead of dismissing them for not being perfect we should focus on making them better. There will be setbacks along the way but that doesn’t mean we’re not on the right track. In the long run, future generations (maybe even ours) will be far healthier and safer because of these advancements.

Yes. Like anything, one must weigh the good vs the bad.

I think that's what good faith discussion with a bit of humility can help with.

 

[Sparky Polastri]

People asking questions are usually instantly labeled an "Antivax conspiracy nuts"

That's not the case here. No one has called anyone a conspiracy theorist that I've seen.

Sorry to break it you, but that is the case here.

There are things you don't know. That was an actual quote that was deleted well before your post.

Not to mention, this thread was reported for us allowing the original post called "this kind of crap" to be allowed here.

Just because you haven't seen it doesn't mean it hasn't happened.

Don't be sorry. Your approach is what it is, but as you can see causes issues and why I qualified my statement. I don't know if the guy is a conspiracy theorist (as I stated before) or not. There is no question he is using conspiracy theory language and phrases.

 

[ghostguy123]

I know some people will die in self-driving car accidents and i know some will die from vaccines, but far more lives will be saved by having both. Instead of dismissing them for not being perfect we should focus on making them better. There will be setbacks along the way but that doesn’t mean we’re not on the right track. In the long run, future generations (maybe even ours) will be far healthier and safer because of these advancements.

Yes. Like anything, one must weigh the good vs the bad.

I think that's what good faith discussion with a bit of humility can help with.

A think most people get a bit upset when they are "forced" to do something, especially when they don't view it as necessary or something they don't believe in. Quite a few people lost their jobs when they refused the vaccine (I know a few personally as well). I personally got it when it came out cause I didn't want to lose my job over it. It really wasn't even a question for me, I honestly didn't even care, I just know that lots and lots of people were super ticked off about it.

Some things that could be forced would definitely have benefits, but would they be "good"? Extreme example, say the government outlawed all unhealthy food to the point where it isn't even possible to make something unhealthy. Health-wise, yeah, that would work out great. What would the fallout be?? Who knows.

Reduced all speed limits by like 50% and make it so the top speed a car can even go is like 50mph. That would save a ton of lives. How would the public react? Who knows.

As for what Willie Nelson mentioned about future generations being healthier and safer. We can maybe be safer, but we are heading anywhere but HEALTHIER even if life expectancy stays the same or even rises some.

 

[BlackCrowes]

Turbo Cancer certainly sounds real

 

[ghostguy123]

Turbo Cancer certainly sounds real

Must say, that was the first I've ever heard of the Turbo Cancer

 

[Ilov80s]

I know some people will die in self-driving car accidents and i know some will die from vaccines, but far more lives will be saved by having both. Instead of dismissing them for not being perfect we should focus on making them better. There will be setbacks along the way but that doesn’t mean we’re not on the right track. In the long run, future generations (maybe even ours) will be far healthier and safer because of these advancements.

Yes. Like anything, one must weigh the good vs the bad.

I think that's what good faith discussion with a bit of humility can help with.

A think most people get a bit upset when they are "forced" to do something, especially when they don't view it as necessary or something they don't believe in. Quite a few people lost their jobs when they refused the vaccine (I know a few personally as well). I personally got it when it came out cause I didn't want to lose my job over it. It really wasn't even a question for me, I honestly didn't even care, I just know that lots and lots of people were super ticked off about it.

Some things that could be forced would definitely have benefits, but would they be "good"? Extreme example, say the government outlawed all unhealthy food to the point where it isn't even possible to make something unhealthy. Health-wise, yeah, that would work out great. What would the fallout be?? Who knows.

Reduced all speed limits by like 50% and make it so the top speed a car can even go is like 50mph. That would save a ton of lives. How would the public react? Who knows.

As for what Willie Nelson mentioned about future generations being healthier and safer. We can maybe be safer, but we are heading anywhere but HEALTHIER even if life expectancy stays the same or even rises some.

It does seem (thought I wasn't alive so I can't say for sure) that previous vaccines weren't met with this levle of resistance. It seems like Americans saw the polio vaccine as a modern miracle and were generally eager to get it, welcoming the idea that all future generations could be protected from a nasty disease. The percent of kids vaccinated so they could attend school was incredibly high for decades. This new resistance to vaccines seems to be something that's just come up over the last 10-15 years where they have gone from miracle to scapegoat for endless human problems.

 

[Sparky Polastri]

If ones concern is the mandate of taking a vaccine, that's an argument to be had. That's a completely different conversation than vaccine safety though.

 

[dkp993]

I know some people will die in self-driving car accidents and i know some will die from vaccines, but far more lives will be saved by having both. Instead of dismissing them for not being perfect we should focus on making them better. There will be setbacks along the way but that doesn’t mean we’re not on the right track. In the long run, future generations (maybe even ours) will be far healthier and safer because of these advancements.

Yes. Like anything, one must weigh the good vs the bad.

I think that's what good faith discussion with a bit of humility can help with.

For sure. Also needing to be factored in is knowledge today versus knowledge in 2020 and 21. I got vaccinated and boosted and felt confident and good about my decision when I did. Now in 2025 knowing what I know and having had COVID multiple times I wouldn’t do it based on my overall risk profile and how much we know about COVID now. But none of that makes me feel like I made the wrong decision in 21. Like today, I only made the best decision I can make with the information at hand at that time. Ensuring we frame the conversation with that knowledge will help in my opinion.

 

[Sparky Polastri]

I know some people will die in self-driving car accidents and i know some will die from vaccines, but far more lives will be saved by having both. Instead of dismissing them for not being perfect we should focus on making them better. There will be setbacks along the way but that doesn’t mean we’re not on the right track. In the long run, future generations (maybe even ours) will be far healthier and safer because of these advancements.

Yes. Like anything, one must weigh the good vs the bad.

I think that's what good faith discussion with a bit of humility can help with.

For sure. Also needing to be factored in is knowledge today versus knowledge in 2020 and 21. I got vaccinated and boosted and felt confident and good about my decision when I did. Now in 2025 knowing what I know and having had COVID multiple times I wouldn’t do it based on my overall risk profile and how much we know about COVID now. But none of that makes me feel like I made the wrong decision in 21. Like today, I only made the best decision I can make with the information at hand at that time. Ensuring we frame the conversation with that knowledge will help in my opinion.

Curious about what you learned that would keep you from getting the vaccine now.

 

[dkp993]

I know some people will die in self-driving car accidents and i know some will die from vaccines, but far more lives will be saved by having both. Instead of dismissing them for not being perfect we should focus on making them better. There will be setbacks along the way but that doesn’t mean we’re not on the right track. In the long run, future generations (maybe even ours) will be far healthier and safer because of these advancements.

Yes. Like anything, one must weigh the good vs the bad.

I think that's what good faith discussion with a bit of humility can help with.

For sure. Also needing to be factored in is knowledge today versus knowledge in 2020 and 21. I got vaccinated and boosted and felt confident and good about my decision when I did. Now in 2025 knowing what I know and having had COVID multiple times I wouldn’t do it based on my overall risk profile and how much we know about COVID now. But none of that makes me feel like I made the wrong decision in 21. Like today, I only made the best decision I can make with the information at hand at that time. Ensuring we frame the conversation with that knowledge will help in my opinion.

Curious about what you learned that would keep you from getting the vaccine now.

Largely the risk/benefit proposition. As a healthy 40 something with no comorbidities (and having had COVID multiple times now) I’m not as concerned about it as I was in 2020 when COVID was far less understood. I generally don’t like to take any medication unless I have too so it follows my general philosophy on medication in general.

 

[Sparky Polastri]

I know some people will die in self-driving car accidents and i know some will die from vaccines, but far more lives will be saved by having both. Instead of dismissing them for not being perfect we should focus on making them better. There will be setbacks along the way but that doesn’t mean we’re not on the right track. In the long run, future generations (maybe even ours) will be far healthier and safer because of these advancements.

Yes. Like anything, one must weigh the good vs the bad.

I think that's what good faith discussion with a bit of humility can help with.

For sure. Also needing to be factored in is knowledge today versus knowledge in 2020 and 21. I got vaccinated and boosted and felt confident and good about my decision when I did. Now in 2025 knowing what I know and having had COVID multiple times I wouldn’t do it based on my overall risk profile and how much we know about COVID now. But none of that makes me feel like I made the wrong decision in 21. Like today, I only made the best decision I can make with the information at hand at that time. Ensuring we frame the conversation with that knowledge will help in my opinion.

Curious about what you learned that would keep you from getting the vaccine now.

Largely the risk/benefit proposition. As a healthy 40 something with no comorbidities (and having had COVID multiple times now) I’m not as concerned about it as I was in 2020 when COVID was far less understood. I generally don’t like to take any medication unless I have too so it follows my general philosophy on medication in general.

Did you have covid before getting vaccinated?

 

[Joe Bryant]

People asking questions are usually instantly labeled an "Antivax conspiracy nuts"

That's not the case here. No one has called anyone a conspiracy theorist that I've seen.

Sorry to break it you, but that is the case here.

There are things you don't know. That was an actual quote that was deleted well before your post.

Not to mention, this thread was reported for us allowing the original post called "this kind of crap" to be allowed here.

Just because you haven't seen it doesn't mean it hasn't happened.

Don't be sorry. Your approach is what it is, but as you can see causes issues and why I qualified my statement.

I guess our approach of moderating and sometimes removing content could be described as “is what it is.”

It’s also how we’ve operated here since day one. And we’ve been able to create a pretty good forum using that approach. Or at least I think so.

When people claim something isn’t the case here, they often just don’t know the full picture. As was your situation here.

And moderating and removing posts occasionally will continue to be how it is.

People can avoid being incorrect in making broad statements like yours by assuming there may be things they don’t know.

 

[BassNBrew]

I know some people will die in self-driving car accidents and i know some will die from vaccines, but far more lives will be saved by having both. Instead of dismissing them for not being perfect we should focus on making them better. There will be setbacks along the way but that doesn’t mean we’re not on the right track. In the long run, future generations (maybe even ours) will be far healthier and safer because of these advancements.

Yes. Like anything, one must weigh the good vs the bad.

I think that's what good faith discussion with a bit of humility can help with.

A think most people get a bit upset when they are "forced" to do something, especially when they don't view it as necessary or something they don't believe in. Quite a few people lost their jobs when they refused the vaccine (I know a few personally as well). I personally got it when it came out cause I didn't want to lose my job over it. It really wasn't even a question for me, I honestly didn't even care, I just know that lots and lots of people were super ticked off about it.

Some things that could be forced would definitely have benefits, but would they be "good"? Extreme example, say the government outlawed all unhealthy food to the point where it isn't even possible to make something unhealthy. Health-wise, yeah, that would work out great. What would the fallout be?? Who knows.

Reduced all speed limits by like 50% and make it so the top speed a car can even go is like 50mph. That would save a ton of lives. How would the public react? Who knows.

As for what Willie Nelson mentioned about future generations being healthier and safer. We can maybe be safer, but we are heading anywhere but HEALTHIER even if life expectancy stays the same or even rises some.

It does seem (thought I wasn't alive so I can't say for sure) that previous vaccines weren't met with this levle of resistance. It seems like Americans saw the polio vaccine as a modern miracle and were generally eager to get it, welcoming the idea that all future generations could be protected from a nasty disease. The percent of kids vaccinated so they could attend school was incredibly high for decades. This new resistance to vaccines seems to be something that's just come up over the last 10-15 years where they have gone from miracle to scapegoat for endless human problems.

I know some people will die in self-driving car accidents and i know some will die from vaccines, but far more lives will be saved by having both. Instead of dismissing them for not being perfect we should focus on making them better. There will be setbacks along the way but that doesn’t mean we’re not on the right track. In the long run, future generations (maybe even ours) will be far healthier and safer because of these advancements.

Yes. Like anything, one must weigh the good vs the bad.

I think that's what good faith discussion with a bit of humility can help with.

A think most people get a bit upset when they are "forced" to do something, especially when they don't view it as necessary or something they don't believe in. Quite a few people lost their jobs when they refused the vaccine (I know a few personally as well). I personally got it when it came out cause I didn't want to lose my job over it. It really wasn't even a question for me, I honestly didn't even care, I just know that lots and lots of people were super ticked off about it.

Some things that could be forced would definitely have benefits, but would they be "good"? Extreme example, say the government outlawed all unhealthy food to the point where it isn't even possible to make something unhealthy. Health-wise, yeah, that would work out great. What would the fallout be?? Who knows.

Reduced all speed limits by like 50% and make it so the top speed a car can even go is like 50mph. That would save a ton of lives. How would the public react? Who knows.

As for what Willie Nelson mentioned about future generations being healthier and safer. We can maybe be safer, but we are heading anywhere but HEALTHIER even if life expectancy stays the same or even rises some.

It does seem (thought I wasn't alive so I can't say for sure) that previous vaccines weren't met with this levle of resistance. It seems like Americans saw the polio vaccine as a modern miracle and were generally eager to get it, welcoming the idea that all future generations could be protected from a nasty disease. The percent of kids vaccinated so they could attend school was incredibly high for decades. This new resistance to vaccines seems to be something that's just come up over the last 10-15 years where they have gone from miracle to scapegoat for endless human problems.

I think the difference between then and now is the millions/billions pharma spends on advertising

 

[ghostguy123]

I know some people will die in self-driving car accidents and i know some will die from vaccines, but far more lives will be saved by having both. Instead of dismissing them for not being perfect we should focus on making them better. There will be setbacks along the way but that doesn’t mean we’re not on the right track. In the long run, future generations (maybe even ours) will be far healthier and safer because of these advancements.

Yes. Like anything, one must weigh the good vs the bad.

I think that's what good faith discussion with a bit of humility can help with.

A think most people get a bit upset when they are "forced" to do something, especially when they don't view it as necessary or something they don't believe in. Quite a few people lost their jobs when they refused the vaccine (I know a few personally as well). I personally got it when it came out cause I didn't want to lose my job over it. It really wasn't even a question for me, I honestly didn't even care, I just know that lots and lots of people were super ticked off about it.

Some things that could be forced would definitely have benefits, but would they be "good"? Extreme example, say the government outlawed all unhealthy food to the point where it isn't even possible to make something unhealthy. Health-wise, yeah, that would work out great. What would the fallout be?? Who knows.

Reduced all speed limits by like 50% and make it so the top speed a car can even go is like 50mph. That would save a ton of lives. How would the public react? Who knows.

As for what Willie Nelson mentioned about future generations being healthier and safer. We can maybe be safer, but we are heading anywhere but HEALTHIER even if life expectancy stays the same or even rises some.

It does seem (thought I wasn't alive so I can't say for sure) that previous vaccines weren't met with this levle of resistance. It seems like Americans saw the polio vaccine as a modern miracle and were generally eager to get it, welcoming the idea that all future generations could be protected from a nasty disease. The percent of kids vaccinated so they could attend school was incredibly high for decades. This new resistance to vaccines seems to be something that's just come up over the last 10-15 years where they have gone from miracle to scapegoat for endless human problems.

Yeah, It's been a little weird that some people are against some of the vaccines that have been proven for decades to be safe and effective (talking about the routine ones that we all gets as kids)

 

[ghostguy123]

If ones concern is the mandate of taking a vaccine, that's an argument to be had. That's a completely different conversation than vaccine safety though.

Indeed it is a much different conversation.

I also think each vaccine would also need its own conversation when it comes to that. The convo of being "forced" to take the MMR vs the Covid vaccine is a wildly different conversation IMO.

 

[Sparky Polastri]

If ones concern is the mandate of taking a vaccine, that's an argument to be had. That's a completely different conversation than vaccine safety though.

Indeed it is a much different conversation.

I also think each vaccine would also need its own conversation when it comes to that. The convo of being "forced" to take the MMR vs the Covid vaccine is a wildly different conversation IMO.

Why? It's a philosophical discussion at that point, no?. "I'm good with being told I have to take certain vaccines and not others" seems like a position of confusion should one find themselves there.

 

[WDIK2]

I think the difference between then and now is the millions/billions pharma spends on advertising

Not social media and groups whose goals are to spread conspiracy theories?

 

[rockaction]

I know some people will die in self-driving car accidents and i know some will die from vaccines, but far more lives will be saved by having both. Instead of dismissing them for not being perfect we should focus on making them better. There will be setbacks along the way but that doesn’t mean we’re not on the right track. In the long run, future generations (maybe even ours) will be far healthier and safer because of these advancements.

Yes. Like anything, one must weigh the good vs the bad.

I think that's what good faith discussion with a bit of humility can help with.

A think most people get a bit upset when they are "forced" to do something, especially when they don't view it as necessary or something they don't believe in. Quite a few people lost their jobs when they refused the vaccine (I know a few personally as well). I personally got it when it came out cause I didn't want to lose my job over it. It really wasn't even a question for me, I honestly didn't even care, I just know that lots and lots of people were super ticked off about it.

Some things that could be forced would definitely have benefits, but would they be "good"? Extreme example, say the government outlawed all unhealthy food to the point where it isn't even possible to make something unhealthy. Health-wise, yeah, that would work out great. What would the fallout be?? Who knows.

Reduced all speed limits by like 50% and make it so the top speed a car can even go is like 50mph. That would save a ton of lives. How would the public react? Who knows.

As for what Willie Nelson mentioned about future generations being healthier and safer. We can maybe be safer, but we are heading anywhere but HEALTHIER even if life expectancy stays the same or even rises some.

It does seem (thought I wasn't alive so I can't say for sure) that previous vaccines weren't met with this levle of resistance. It seems like Americans saw the polio vaccine as a modern miracle and were generally eager to get it, welcoming the idea that all future generations could be protected from a nasty disease. The percent of kids vaccinated so they could attend school was incredibly high for decades. This new resistance to vaccines seems to be something that's just come up over the last 10-15 years where they have gone from miracle to scapegoat for endless human problems.

Yeah, It's been a little weird that some people are against some of the vaccines that have been proven for decades to be safe and effective (talking about the routine ones that we all gets as kids)

Not weird when The Lancet, a top medical journal, published an author claiming that a preservative in those "routine" vaccines gave kids autism. They've done so much damage with that. My mother, God bless her, was convinced that was true because it had been in medical journals and books (that are now discredited). Andrew Wakefield was his name, and he faked data and lost his license to practice in the U.K.

There's nothing weird about it. Once that stuff gets a hold of people it takes an army of people to disprove it.