Q&A About the car business or buying a car (1 Viewer)

[godgers12]

Here's the situation I always find myself in. I research on-line until I find the exact (make, mileage, price-range, color, options, etc) used vehicle that I want. At this point, what's my best way to negotiate for this vehicle? Assume cash deal with trade-in.In the past, my strategy was to do my research on KBB and make them think I was considering 3 different vehicles at different dealers. I would then keep asking for their best price until they let me walk out the door (my Dad always said once they let you walk, they've given their best deal). At that point, I usually just walk back in and sign the papers. Its served me well, but I dont really enjoy the whole process.

With a used car I will say this to start, internet pricing nowadays is extremely aggressive and a lot of the time dealerships will not budge to far from that. The main thing is shop at the end of the month, and do everything over the phone to start. At least get the price of the car your buying agreed upon then let them know you have a trade. Look they are going to hate the fact you didn't mention the trade but keep this in mind. If you already have the BEST price on the car your buying they aren't going to be able to over allow a ton for your trade. The times they can go crazy on someones trade to make them happy usually they are just taking that money from the new car. Also to add to that they WILL without a doubt try and hold money on your trade if you beat them up real hard on the car your buying, to try and make something off the deal. So the best thing is to when they make their offer always just shoot for the moon \the first counter and see what they respond with. Best bet is if your in the market (hopefully someone on here will be sometime) and I can help and show what steps will best get you what you want.Again when it comes to your trade though the best way to get a idea what a dealership is willing to pay is to take it to a car max and get a written buy it now bid. Car Max is very aggressive and if your not happy with their price then you aren't going to be happy with ANY dealership and are better off selling it privately.

 

[godgers12]

Just to give you a idea, this is one of the competing dealerships in the area I work (Houston) and they have two-three listed that I would buy over the enterprise one

http://www.allensamuelsdodgekaty.com/new-inventory/index.htm?SByear=clear&SBmake=Dodge&SBmodel=Grand%20Caravan&SBbodystyle=clear&SBprice=clear

scroll down for the trim that is like the enterprise one, if they have em there you can find them by you.There is a 500.00 rebate on the SE it looks like and about 1500.00 or so in markup/holdback that they are giving up.

The reason I would go this route is buying through enterprise it is not certified, your 36k bumper to bumper is almost up so I WOULD HIGHLY recommend getting a chrylser extended warranty, I can tell you how to get this for cost, and @ 0% interest f you wanted to make payments on it, if you still went used. But i think going new , 0 miles, full warranty makes a lot more sense on that vehicle.

From their website:

Vehicle Certification

We only sell certified used vehicles. Every Enterprise used car has passed a rigorous 109-point inspection performed by an ASE-Certified technician.

Now that doesn't change anything for me, but just wanted to point that out. Not sure it means a whole helluva a lot, but Enterprise does advertise Certification.Also, what are the differences between the SE and the SXT?

I would advise not to buy a formal rental car. After the Citation, I bought a groovy Cavalier from Enterprise. It broke down more than the Cavalier. I later had a car friend tell me that people are really hard on rentals so it's a bad idea buying to own. FWIW.

I'm kind of on the fence about the whole rental car thing for a couple reasons. First off my dealership would buy at least 10-15 chrysler, dodge,jeep vehicles a month from what is called the Smart Auction, and all of these vehicles were from Enterprise and Enterprise delivered them straight to us.Yes I understand the whole thing about people treating rental cars bad and driving them "hard", but at the same time no one upkeeps their personal vehicle like a enterprise vehicle is taken car of. From the maintenance to the cleaning inside and out they are always on top of that stuff, I mean think about anytime you get in a rental car, 95% of the time it is spotless and runs just fine.

I just think buying a year old vehicle with the bumper to bumper warranty basically gone doesn't make sense to only save maybe 1-2k on a brand new vehicle with a full warranty.

I have a GB (and a great guy like you I'm guessing) that has been selling cars, mostly used, for almost 30 years. This was his advice and from my limited experience, I have to agree with him.

Yes I think that I do agree with avoiding rental cars but for different reasons I guess, I don;t see the price savings being worth buying a vehicle that has had it's wheels driven off for six months or so. I mean with certified vehicles, and the inspections these things go through your probably not going to get a lemon very often, and that can happen with any vehicle new or used. But I personally would not buy a rental car no.I have sold plenty of them and really never had any problems with them coming back to service any more than non rental cars.

All in all though I would not recommend a friend buy a rental car again more due to the value not being there.

 

[Joe T]

The car buying experience sucks. Why can't manufacturers, dealers, internet, anyone, come up with a better way to sell cars and improve the experience for the buyer?The biggest problem with buying a car is that you know everyone on the lot is trying to bend you over throughout the entire process. I've always thought the internet eventually solves all processes like this that are inherently flawed. I'm surprised someone hasn't thought of a better way to sell a car yet.

 

[johnnycakes]

The car buying experience sucks. Why can't manufacturers, dealers, internet, anyone, come up with a better way to sell cars and improve the experience for the buyer?The biggest problem with buying a car is that you know everyone on the lot is trying to bend you over throughout the entire process. I've always thought the internet eventually solves all processes like this that are inherently flawed. I'm surprised someone hasn't thought of a better way to sell a car yet.

Saturn tried that. Where are they now?

 

[gmbacm]

The car buying experience sucks. Why can't manufacturers, dealers, internet, anyone, come up with a better way to sell cars and improve the experience for the buyer?The biggest problem with buying a car is that you know everyone on the lot is trying to bend you over throughout the entire process. I've always thought the internet eventually solves all processes like this that are inherently flawed. I'm surprised someone hasn't thought of a better way to sell a car yet.

There are quite a few "no haggle" used car places around here now, why not for new cars?

 

[Joe T]

The car buying experience sucks. Why can't manufacturers, dealers, internet, anyone, come up with a better way to sell cars and improve the experience for the buyer?The biggest problem with buying a car is that you know everyone on the lot is trying to bend you over throughout the entire process. I've always thought the internet eventually solves all processes like this that are inherently flawed. I'm surprised someone hasn't thought of a better way to sell a car yet.

Saturn tried that. Where are they now?

Weren't they pre-innerweb?I'm talking about not having to step foot on a dealer lot ever. I think Craigslist comes the closest to eliminate dealing with a dealer... but those deals are mostly cash. I want to see a full end-to-end solution.ETA: also, the Saturn product was not very good. I think that may have been more of their problem than a pleasant buying experience.

 

[godgers12]

The car buying experience sucks. Why can't manufacturers, dealers, internet, anyone, come up with a better way to sell cars and improve the experience for the buyer?The biggest problem with buying a car is that you know everyone on the lot is trying to bend you over throughout the entire process. I've always thought the internet eventually solves all processes like this that are inherently flawed. I'm surprised someone hasn't thought of a better way to sell a car yet.

It is VERY easy to get the best price possible on a new car, just use 4-5 dealerships around you, contact them via E Mail and request E Prices for the vehicle you want. This will always be right around invoice +/- a couple hundred dollars.This is the thing, obv salesman want to make all the money they can but at the same time people are so jaded over the whole ordeal of buying a car because of the general thoguht of how it works that NO DEAL is ever good enough and they always think they are getting screwed. I would lose 10+ deals a month because I would do all the leg work get a great number (invoice) and they would go home and think about it, that is fine it is a hugeeee decision but then you find out they went later that day down the road and showed the next dealership my offer and they beat it by 100 or 200 dollars and its done. Anyone can do that, we wouldnt miss a deal over a hundred or so bucks either when given the chance but it is quite frustrating when you already are up against a brick wall that your a POS and no matter how good you treat someone its not good enough.

 

[godgers12]

The car buying experience sucks. Why can't manufacturers, dealers, internet, anyone, come up with a better way to sell cars and improve the experience for the buyer?The biggest problem with buying a car is that you know everyone on the lot is trying to bend you over throughout the entire process. I've always thought the internet eventually solves all processes like this that are inherently flawed. I'm surprised someone hasn't thought of a better way to sell a car yet.

There are quite a few "no haggle" used car places around here now, why not for new cars?

Sorry but no haggle dealerships ESPECIALLY used dealerships are still making decent money on those cars. Like Car Max for example, they do not negotiate, and all of their cars are 2k+ money makers for the dealerships.

 

[godgers12]

The car buying experience sucks. Why can't manufacturers, dealers, internet, anyone, come up with a better way to sell cars and improve the experience for the buyer?The biggest problem with buying a car is that you know everyone on the lot is trying to bend you over throughout the entire process. I've always thought the internet eventually solves all processes like this that are inherently flawed. I'm surprised someone hasn't thought of a better way to sell a car yet.

Saturn tried that. Where are they now?

Weren't they pre-innerweb?I'm talking about not having to step foot on a dealer lot ever. I think Craigslist comes the closest to eliminate dealing with a dealer... but those deals are mostly cash. I want to see a full end-to-end solution.ETA: also, the Saturn product was not very good. I think that may have been more of their problem than a pleasant buying experience.

Like half of my deals would be basically a hand the key and do a demo on the electronics etc. Meaning everything would be negotiated over the phone, credit app done online, etc. They came in signed the paperwork and were out in 45 minutes or so. Now with a trade you have to go in because they can't give you a exact appraisal without seeing your car.

 

[godgers12]

i mean getting the best price is VERY easy its everything else that dealerships do now to make up for that you have to watch out for, meaning the trade in, the financing, etc.davesmith.comThat site is the #1 chrysler seller 9 years in a row, top in buick etc. in northwest forever. They sell THOUSANDS of cars a month below invoice. They are in freaking Idaho. lol

 

[comfortably numb]

The car buying experience sucks. Why can't manufacturers, dealers, internet, anyone, come up with a better way to sell cars and improve the experience for the buyer?The biggest problem with buying a car is that you know everyone on the lot is trying to bend you over throughout the entire process. I've always thought the internet eventually solves all processes like this that are inherently flawed. I'm surprised someone hasn't thought of a better way to sell a car yet.

Read my post above, I was in/outJust find a car you like, get a reasonable price you want, call around and see who has best pricing. Whatever that price is. Just say you are not paying a dime more and will be in to finalize paperwork later. There are still some haggles I suppose, but going in to start talking about pricing and negotiating is where it becomes a pain for me

 

[Bull Dozier]

Didn't read the first page, so I don't know if this has been discussed, but when you have a trade, why do they ask if it is paid off, and if not, what you owe on it? Does what you tell them affect the price they are going to offer, or are they just looking to see if a trade isn't feasible?

 

[godgers12]

Didn't read the first page, so I don't know if this has been discussed, but when you have a trade, why do they ask if it is paid off, and if not, what you owe on it? Does what you tell them affect the price they are going to offer, or are they just looking to see if a trade isn't feasible?

If you owe on your trade has nothing to do with what you pay for the new car, they need that info for several reasons. First being the most obvious if you want to see payments etc. they can't give you a correct number without knowing your payoff first for obvious reasons. The second being if you are completely "tanked" (owe a ton more than it is worth) it can be tough to get a bank to finance it. With A+ credit it usually aint a problem but some people come in owing crazy amounts wanting a new car with no money down, well a bank will only let you carry so much negative equity, like 125% or such. Meaning if the new car is valued at 10k and your trying to finance 18k because your upside down and also have tax title etc. You will either need A+ credit or a nice chunk of change down. Hope that makes sense I suck at trying to get across what I mean. If it doesn't I cant try and explain better.

 

[Da Guru]

What is the 2-3 hundred dollar "transaction fee?" is that a bunch of BS to make extra cash?

 

[Bull Dozier]

Didn't read the first page, so I don't know if this has been discussed, but when you have a trade, why do they ask if it is paid off, and if not, what you owe on it? Does what you tell them affect the price they are going to offer, or are they just looking to see if a trade isn't feasible?

If you owe on your trade has nothing to do with what you pay for the new car, they need that info for several reasons. First being the most obvious if you want to see payments etc. they can't give you a correct number without knowing your payoff first for obvious reasons. The second being if you are completely "tanked" (owe a ton more than it is worth) it can be tough to get a bank to finance it. With A+ credit it usually aint a problem but some people come in owing crazy amounts wanting a new car with no money down, well a bank will only let you carry so much negative equity, like 125% or such. Meaning if the new car is valued at 10k and your trying to finance 18k because your upside down and also have tax title etc. You will either need A+ credit or a nice chunk of change down. Hope that makes sense I suck at trying to get across what I mean. If it doesn't I cant try and explain better.

Nope, I get what you are saying. You say it doesn't matter what I pay for the new car, and I agree. I'm just wondering if it could affect what they give on the trade in (positive or negative). Since I don't know if that matter, I tend to want to say "just give me your offer and we'll discuss that later." I hate negotiating and giving info that I don't know is helping me or hurting me. I'm generally not financing with the dealer, so I'm just looking for the net price (new car price minus trade).

 

[godgers12]

Didn't read the first page, so I don't know if this has been discussed, but when you have a trade, why do they ask if it is paid off, and if not, what you owe on it? Does what you tell them affect the price they are going to offer, or are they just looking to see if a trade isn't feasible?

If you owe on your trade has nothing to do with what you pay for the new car, they need that info for several reasons. First being the most obvious if you want to see payments etc. they can't give you a correct number without knowing your payoff first for obvious reasons. The second being if you are completely "tanked" (owe a ton more than it is worth) it can be tough to get a bank to finance it. With A+ credit it usually aint a problem but some people come in owing crazy amounts wanting a new car with no money down, well a bank will only let you carry so much negative equity, like 125% or such. Meaning if the new car is valued at 10k and your trying to finance 18k because your upside down and also have tax title etc. You will either need A+ credit or a nice chunk of change down. Hope that makes sense I suck at trying to get across what I mean. If it doesn't I cant try and explain better.

Nope, I get what you are saying. You say it doesn't matter what I pay for the new car, and I agree. I'm just wondering if it could affect what they give on the trade in (positive or negative). Since I don't know if that matter, I tend to want to say "just give me your offer and we'll discuss that later." I hate negotiating and giving info that I don't know is helping me or hurting me. I'm generally not financing with the dealer, so I'm just looking for the net price (new car price minus trade).

Then take it in this order, get your E-Price online for the car you want. Take your trade to the dealership, and to someone else (preferably something like Car Max) get several appraisals on your trade to get a feel where your at then you have all the pieces you need. I will add even with outside financing there were very few times I couldn't beat a CU on their rate so it is worth giving them a shot. I think the only place that constantly beat us in rate was USAA.

 

[godgers12]

What is the 2-3 hundred dollar "transaction fee?" is that a bunch of BS to make extra cash?

When you look at your buyers order (the paper you sign your life away on) on the right are all the numbers, it will start with the new car price, then comes the rebates and discounts and adds(please dont let any adds be on there lol) , then you will see your trade appraisal subtracted from there (if you have a trade). anything below that the dealership cannot mess with, the taxes, non tax fees etc. The transaction fee or documentation fee is a in house fee yes but it is not something they will change. It pay everyone working on the back end of the deal doing the paperwork basically. But 300.00 is high, I believe ours was like 150.00 or something. The non tax fees are the DMV fees for plates and registration.

 

[E-Z Glider]

Here's the situation I always find myself in. I research on-line until I find the exact (make, mileage, price-range, color, options, etc) used vehicle that I want. At this point, what's my best way to negotiate for this vehicle? Assume cash deal with trade-in.

In the past, my strategy was to do my research on KBB and make them think I was considering 3 different vehicles at different dealers. I would then keep asking for their best price until they let me walk out the door (my Dad always said once they let you walk, they've given their best deal). At that point, I usually just walk back in and sign the papers. Its served me well, but I dont really enjoy the whole process.

With a used car I will say this to start, internet pricing nowadays is extremely aggressive and a lot of the time dealerships will not budge to far from that. The main thing is shop at the end of the month, and do everything over the phone to start. At least get the price of the car your buying agreed upon then let them know you have a trade. Look they are going to hate the fact you didn't mention the trade but keep this in mind. If you already have the BEST price on the car your buying they aren't going to be able to over allow a ton for your trade. The times they can go crazy on someones trade to make them happy usually they are just taking that money from the new car. Also to add to that they WILL without a doubt try and hold money on your trade if you beat them up real hard on the car your buying, to try and make something off the deal. So the best thing is to when they make their offer always just shoot for the moon \the first counter and see what they respond with.

Best bet is if your in the market (hopefully someone on here will be sometime) and I can help and show what steps will best get you what you want.

Again when it comes to your trade though the best way to get a idea what a dealership is willing to pay is to take it to a car max and get a written buy it now bid. Car Max is very aggressive and if your not happy with their price then you aren't going to be happy with ANY dealership and are better off selling it privately.

In my experience, "Do you have a trade-in?" is one of the first questions out of their mouths. Do you suggest I just say "no", and then after we're done negotiating, asking them what they would give me for trade-in?

 

[godgers12]

Here's the situation I always find myself in. I research on-line until I find the exact (make, mileage, price-range, color, options, etc) used vehicle that I want. At this point, what's my best way to negotiate for this vehicle? Assume cash deal with trade-in.

In the past, my strategy was to do my research on KBB and make them think I was considering 3 different vehicles at different dealers. I would then keep asking for their best price until they let me walk out the door (my Dad always said once they let you walk, they've given their best deal). At that point, I usually just walk back in and sign the papers. Its served me well, but I dont really enjoy the whole process.

With a used car I will say this to start, internet pricing nowadays is extremely aggressive and a lot of the time dealerships will not budge to far from that. The main thing is shop at the end of the month, and do everything over the phone to start. At least get the price of the car your buying agreed upon then let them know you have a trade. Look they are going to hate the fact you didn't mention the trade but keep this in mind. If you already have the BEST price on the car your buying they aren't going to be able to over allow a ton for your trade. The times they can go crazy on someones trade to make them happy usually they are just taking that money from the new car. Also to add to that they WILL without a doubt try and hold money on your trade if you beat them up real hard on the car your buying, to try and make something off the deal. So the best thing is to when they make their offer always just shoot for the moon \the first counter and see what they respond with.

Best bet is if your in the market (hopefully someone on here will be sometime) and I can help and show what steps will best get you what you want.

Again when it comes to your trade though the best way to get a idea what a dealership is willing to pay is to take it to a car max and get a written buy it now bid. Car Max is very aggressive and if your not happy with their price then you aren't going to be happy with ANY dealership and are better off selling it privately.

In my experience, "Do you have a trade-in?" is one of the first questions out of their mouths. Do you suggest I just say "no", and then after we're done negotiating, asking them what they would give me for trade-in?

You don't have to say no per say I mean you don;t want them to lie to you obviously so it has always been my perception that you give the same respect. The way I would handle it is say the following "I might have a trade but that is not the deal breaker here we can cross that bridge in a bit" But honestly if you are doing it right that should be the first thing you take care of once your at the dealership. I will say this would be my order buying a car:1.Take a day to find the right car if you are shopping several models do this: Only drive the models you are interested in, DO NOT GO INSIDE just drive, they will try and try, just take a day and learn the product, drive it and compare. But also do this , they may need to give a "turn" to their manager, it is just them doing their job most salesman get in trouble if they don't give their manager a chance to talk to someone they are helping. Just be polite explain your in the early stages of shopping take a card they will obviously try to get you to buy there but if you are straight forward (and no it doesn't take being mean or anything) they will get the point. The next thing is they will want your phone number, I would never give it out. Just make a email before going specifically for buying a car, give that to them and say you conduct all your business via email. THis will obv not be best case scenerio for them as they will want to call but at least they have a form of contact and you can just throw it away after you find the right car and not get calls for months after.

2.Once you know the right car contact 4-5 dealerships with that car in your area and request a e-price, only use yoru email no matter how hard they try, and compare those prices. Use the best one and try to get anything else you can but be happy knowing your are probably close to rock bottom there.

3.Set up a time to come see the car (triple check YOUR car you want is in stock, be adament you do not want to get there and it is not there) and have your car appraised. Before you get there stop at a Car Max, and maybe another dealership or two and get your car appraised. This will give you a idea of what to expect for your trade. And you can work it from there.

4.If outside financing that is fine but no reason not to have them try and beat the rate, exlain you do not want to be shotgunned around and you do not want them to tell you they beat the rate to get in "the box" (finance office) and have them try to bump you. Not gonna fly. When in finance I wouldn't recommend buying ANYTHING extra at that time except GAP if you are financing a large chunk of the vehicle. Get your extended warranty at a later date in the way i explained earlier.

 

[pizzatyme]

I sold cars many years ago and what is being described here today reminds me of why I got out of the business. I have a few things that might help some in the car market and in general.I travel for my job and I know I accelerate and break harder also disregard speed bumps when I'm in a rental. I drive a rental about 40 weeks a year and would not buy one as a personal car. One thing to keep in mind is that online or phone negotiating is great, most dealerships will do even more when you show up as a serious buyer. The Internet guys get as many as 20-30 inquiries for every person that actually shows up. This is why most of these are the "mini" deals. I would do online research, find comparable deals from a few places and then use that as your starting point when you walk into the dealership. Never, ever, never walk onto a lot and give the salesperson a monthly payment you are trying to budget to. They can make a moped fit that range! Ha. 90% of sales and sales managers are slime. Just as described in this thread. Never mention a trade until you have negotiated a purchase price for the new car. Then negotiate a value for your trade. It's pretty common to mention a trade, be offered "rough" or "poor" trade-in value and about $2k profit on the new car as a starting point. So, lets say 4-4500 profit for the house. Then the sales rep goes to "fight" to get you a good deal and gets you a $500 bump. You ask for another $500-1000 and ultimately, you get a $1000 concession from the original amount, landing on roughy a $3000+ profit for the house. I hope this helps and if it has changed from my sales and purchasing experience, I welcome the OP to update.

 

[Angry Beavers]

Is there any particular time of the month or year that is better for buying a car than any other? I heard Nov/Dec was great as dealers tend to be slower during the holidays and they are trying to get rid of last years models to make room for the new ones.

As other people have stated the end of the month is where it is at. Not only do they have goals they wanna hit for the salesman all these dealerships have certain numbers to hit not only for the manufacturer but also their main lender.For example with Chrysler the main lender is Ally, there is usually two numbers they can hit for Chrysler each paying a different amount, so say a dealership sells 200 cars for the first level they might get 200.00 bonus every car they sell, but level two could be 350.00 a car bonus, on top of that Ally will have a certain amount of new and used cars they need your ealership to get funded through them each month, and that could be a flat bonus for say 40-70k depending on size of dealership each month.This is how many dealerships are ablt to sell their cars over the internet and have E-Prices below invoice because they rely on this extra money. There is ALWAYS a next number they can hit and most the time the last few days a month or "closeout" they are just in a mad dash to move steel over the curb. Not to mention everyone is usually burnt the hell out after working 9-9 for a week straight.

Figured that was case but GREAT to have that confirmed from the inside!! Thanks to you and the others that answered.

 

[godgers12]

I sold cars many years ago and what is being described here today reminds me of why I got out of the business. I have a few things that might help some in the car market and in general.I travel for my job and I know I accelerate and break harder also disregard speed bumps when I'm in a rental. I drive a rental about 40 weeks a year and would not buy one as a personal car. One thing to keep in mind is that online or phone negotiating is great, most dealerships will do even more when you show up as a serious buyer. The Internet guys get as many as 20-30 inquiries for every person that actually shows up. This is why most of these are the "mini" deals. I would do online research, find comparable deals from a few places and then use that as your starting point when you walk into the dealership. Never, ever, never walk onto a lot and give the salesperson a monthly payment you are trying to budget to. They can make a moped fit that range! Ha. 90% of sales and sales managers are slime. Just as described in this thread. Never mention a trade until you have negotiated a purchase price for the new car. Then negotiate a value for your trade. It's pretty common to mention a trade, be offered "rough" or "poor" trade-in value and about $2k profit on the new car as a starting point. So, lets say 4-4500 profit for the house. Then the sales rep goes to "fight" to get you a good deal and gets you a $500 bump. You ask for another $500-1000 and ultimately, you get a $1000 concession from the original amount, landing on roughy a $3000+ profit for the house. I hope this helps and if it has changed from my sales and purchasing experience, I welcome the OP to update.

Nope you are right, but again nowadays when you get your e-price and get several from all around and negotiate what you can from there that is usually rock bottom. Now dont get me wrong if you show up with your e price on the last day of the month and ask for another few hundo to buy right now, they will probably do it or someone will, but we arent talking thousand or usually even like 500.00 here.

 

[General Malaise]

I'm about a week away from buying a used Dodge Grand Caravan.

I'm going to pretend this was schtick.

List of People Not Invited to Ride in My New #####in' Minivan:1. JoeT :

2. Tony Romo

3. Hitler

4.

5.

6.

But in all seriousness, if Hitler walked up to GM and asked for a van ride, I doubt he gets rejected

Oh, I'd give him a ride.And then punch him in the mustache!

 

[General Malaise]

I would advise not to buy a formal rental car. After the Citation, I bought a groovy Cavalier from Enterprise. It broke down more than the Cavalier. I later had a car friend tell me that people are really hard on rentals so it's a bad idea buying to own. FWIW.

I hear that a lot and it's always one of those things that I think should be on snopes.how are these people driving a car 'really hard'?

I can see how they might mistreat the interior, but when you drive a rental are you driving 'harder', somehow, than your own car?

yeah, maybe you bump into more stuff, but all that body work is either fixed, or you can see it.

I think the problem with rentals is they pick up an asston of mileage pretty quick, so a year after you get them you might be out of warranty.

if you buy a car from some random dude off craigslist how do you know how hard he was driving?

he might be driving that thing hard every day for 3 years, and twice a year put 4 hard days on that rental.

edit: and if enterprise doesn't sell it direct to you, they probably ship to auctions where it's bought by dealers and resold to you off teh lot.

There's no way that someone who owns a car would treat it the way I've treated some of the rental cars I've had - in college I once tried to get a Pontiac Vibe to leave the ground over a hill, couldn't have been good for the suspension. I also thought nothing of doing neutral drops in rental cars.

Yeah, okay. We've all been in college and done stupid crap to rental cars. But think about this: The vast majority of people renting a minivan are not college kids looking to joy ride. They are families with small kids and while some dads may want to impress junior with some spin outs or donuts, let's get real here. It's a minivan, not a Trans Am. The van I'm eyeballing is a 2012 with only 27K miles. They say its certified, I'm taking their word for it. I drove it. It drives just fine. We'll see...

 

[comfortably numb]

Also, when i was discussing sale price I always discussed the out the door price.Mine happened to be 19kI told him you can add whatever you want to my sales order, but it comes off the price of the vehicle as 19k is all I am signing for.When I was 20 and bought a car, i felt i probably got raped by financing after having agreed to a price with the sales rep...but at that point i am tired, the rep isn't available and the finance guys tells me these items are standard and can't be removed etc...So i assume I paid for a bunch of stuff I didn't need.This time, it was very easy and all the way through financing no one even asked to add anything or that so so was needed.

 

[General Malaise]

FWIW, I would never ever ever buy a used car from enterprise. Think about how much you don't care about a rental car when you rent one.

And yet they continue to sell them into the marketplace...wonder who the hell is buying all these lemons?

 

[pizzatyme]

I would advise not to buy a formal rental car. After the Citation, I bought a groovy Cavalier from Enterprise. It broke down more than the Cavalier. I later had a car friend tell me that people are really hard on rentals so it's a bad idea buying to own. FWIW.

I hear that a lot and it's always one of those things that I think should be on snopes.how are these people driving a car 'really hard'?

I can see how they might mistreat the interior, but when

you drive a rental are you driving 'harder', somehow, than your own car?

yeah, maybe you bump into more stuff, but all that body work is either fixed, or you can see it.

I think the problem with rentals is they pick up an asston of mileage pretty quick, so a year after you get them you might be out of warranty.

if you buy a car from some random dude off craigslist how do you know how hard he was driving?

he might be driving that thing hard every day for 3 years, and twice a year put 4 hard days on that rental.

edit: and if enterprise doesn't sell it direct to you, they probably ship to auctions where it's bought by dealers and

resold to you off teh lot.

There's no way that someone who owns a car would treat it the way I've treated some of the rental cars I've had - in college I once tried to get a Pontiac Vibe to leave the ground over a hill, couldn't have been good for the suspension. I also thought nothing of doing neutral drops in rental cars.

Yeah, okay. We've all been in college and done stupid crap to rental cars. But think about this: The vast majority of people renting a minivan are not college kids looking to joy ride. They are families with small kids and while some dads may want to impress junior with some spin outs or donuts, let's get real here. It's a minivan, not a Trans Am.

The van I'm eyeballing is a 2012 with only 27K miles. They say its certified, I'm taking their word for it. I drove it. It

drives just fine. We'll see...

I would agree that a rental van is different than a rental car when it comes to "hard driving".

 

[godgers12]

I would advise not to buy a formal rental car. After the Citation, I bought a groovy Cavalier from Enterprise. It broke down more than the Cavalier. I later had a car friend tell me that people are really hard on rentals so it's a bad idea buying to own. FWIW.

I hear that a lot and it's always one of those things that I think should be on snopes.how are these people driving a car 'really hard'?

I can see how they might mistreat the interior, but when you drive a rental are you driving 'harder', somehow, than your own car?

yeah, maybe you bump into more stuff, but all that body work is either fixed, or you can see it.

I think the problem with rentals is they pick up an asston of mileage pretty quick, so a year after you get them you might be out of warranty.

if you buy a car from some random dude off craigslist how do you know how hard he was driving?

he might be driving that thing hard every day for 3 years, and twice a year put 4 hard days on that rental.

edit: and if enterprise doesn't sell it direct to you, they probably ship to auctions where it's bought by dealers and resold to you off teh lot.

There's no way that someone who owns a car would treat it the way I've treated some of the rental cars I've had - in college I once tried to get a Pontiac Vibe to leave the ground over a hill, couldn't have been good for the suspension. I also thought nothing of doing neutral drops in rental cars.

Yeah, okay. We've all been in college and done stupid crap to rental cars. But think about this: The vast majority of people renting a minivan are not college kids looking to joy ride. They are families with small kids and while some dads may want to impress junior with some spin outs or donuts, let's get real here. It's a minivan, not a Trans Am. The van I'm eyeballing is a 2012 with only 27K miles. They say its certified, I'm taking their word for it. I drove it. It drives just fine. We'll see...

This is why I don't think avoiding ALL rental cars no matter what is correct.

 

[godgers12]

Also, when i was discussing sale price I always discussed the out the door price.Mine happened to be 19kI told him you can add whatever you want to my sales order, but it comes off the price of the vehicle as 19k is all I am signing for.When I was 20 and bought a car, i felt i probably got raped by financing after having agreed to a price with the sales rep...but at that point i am tired, the rep isn't available and the finance guys tells me these items are standard and can't be removed etc...So i assume I paid for a bunch of stuff I didn't need.This time, it was very easy and all the way through financing no one even asked to add anything or that so so was needed.

yea it is really bad for people that either don't know what they are doing or do not read the fine print on things. They will always try crap like that. Also fwiw if anyone has bought a car and has a extended contract or GAP they dont feel they need, you can ALWAYS cancel it and they will cut a pro rated check for you.

 

[Al Czervik]

What is the 2-3 hundred dollar "transaction fee?" is that a bunch of BS to make extra cash?

When you look at your buyers order (the paper you sign your life away on) on the right are all the numbers, it will start with the new car price, then comes the rebates and discounts and adds(please dont let any adds be on there lol) , then you will see your trade appraisal subtracted from there (if you have a trade). anything below that the dealership cannot mess with, the taxes, non tax fees etc. The transaction fee or documentation fee is a in house fee yes but it is not something they will change. It pay everyone working on the back end of the deal doing the paperwork basically. But 300.00 is high, I believe ours was like 150.00 or something. The non tax fees are the DMV fees for plates and registration.

I think $300 is about average (unless you live in South Florida, then they are in the thousands).

 

[Al Czervik]

WTF are Destination and advertising fees? Dealer created BS to gouge customers, right?

Advertising fee is legit. It comes from the factory baked into the wholesale invoice price (on top of the wholesale vehicle price). Typically it is 1% of the MSRP.The funds then go into an account for the dealers in the local market to do marketing/advertising (and keep me employed ).

 

[godgers12]

WTF are Destination and advertising fees? Dealer created BS to gouge customers, right?

Advertising fee is legit. It comes from the factory baked into the wholesale invoice price (on top of the wholesale vehicle price). Typically it is 1% of the MSRP.The funds then go into an account for the dealers in the local market to do marketing/advertising (and keep me employed ).

Are you saying there is a pool for all dealers in a area that they pay into from the selling of cars and they pull out to pay for their advertising from this? I no I do not know everything but I am fairly sure this is not the case. The only fee that is 100% legit is the destination fee and that is on the window sticker.

 

[godgers12]

What is the 2-3 hundred dollar "transaction fee?" is that a bunch of BS to make extra cash?

When you look at your buyers order (the paper you sign your life away on) on the right are all the numbers, it will start with the new car price, then comes the rebates and discounts and adds(please dont let any adds be on there lol) , then you will see your trade appraisal subtracted from there (if you have a trade). anything below that the dealership cannot mess with, the taxes, non tax fees etc. The transaction fee or documentation fee is a in house fee yes but it is not something they will change. It pay everyone working on the back end of the deal doing the paperwork basically. But 300.00 is high, I believe ours was like 150.00 or something. The non tax fees are the DMV fees for plates and registration.

I think $300 is about average (unless you live in South Florida, then they are in the thousands).

there are lots of different names for this fee if we are thinking about the same thing, and there is no way no matter where i was at I would pay thousands for the documentation fee.

 

[Slapdash]

Good thread. I have worked at a rental car place before, I wouldn't buy one.

 

[Al Czervik]

Is there any particular time of the month or year that is better for buying a car than any other? I heard Nov/Dec was great as dealers tend to be slower during the holidays and they are trying to get rid of last years models to make room for the new ones.

end of month when they can hit a bonus.

Most objective programs I have seen are quarterly (at least with one manufacturer). So end of month/quarter might be best.Also, speaking from a marketing stand point, the incentives will get better for July/Aug during the summer sell down and end of year during the big 'year end events'. And if you want to buy a truck, you can count on a 'Truck Month' for one month in the spring and one month in the fall.

 

[Al Czervik]

WTF are Destination and advertising fees? Dealer created BS to gouge customers, right?

Advertising fee is legit. It comes from the factory baked into the wholesale invoice price (on top of the wholesale vehicle price). Typically it is 1% of the MSRP.The funds then go into an account for the dealers in the local market to do marketing/advertising (and keep me employed ).

Are you saying there is a pool for all dealers in a area that they pay into from the selling of cars and they pull out to pay for their advertising from this? I no I do not know everything but I am fairly sure this is not the case. The only fee that is 100% legit is the destination fee and that is on the window sticker.

Yes, that is what I am saying. Chrysler got rid of their program, so maybe that is why you are not familiar with it. They do however, still have a dealer co-op advertising program, so that cost will be on there.

 

[Al Czervik]

What is the 2-3 hundred dollar "transaction fee?" is that a bunch of BS to make extra cash?

When you look at your buyers order (the paper you sign your life away on) on the right are all the numbers, it will start with the new car price, then comes the rebates and discounts and adds(please dont let any adds be on there lol) , then you will see your trade appraisal subtracted from there (if you have a trade). anything below that the dealership cannot mess with, the taxes, non tax fees etc. The transaction fee or documentation fee is a in house fee yes but it is not something they will change. It pay everyone working on the back end of the deal doing the paperwork basically. But 300.00 is high, I believe ours was like 150.00 or something. The non tax fees are the DMV fees for plates and registration.

I think $300 is about average (unless you live in South Florida, then they are in the thousands).

there are lots of different names for this fee if we are thinking about the same thing, and there is no way no matter where i was at I would pay thousands for the documentation fee.

I've seen it in South Florida. It's crazy. Totally agree with you... would never pay that.

 

[godgers12]

Is there any particular time of the month or year that is better for buying a car than any other? I heard Nov/Dec was great as dealers tend to be slower during the holidays and they are trying to get rid of last years models to make room for the new ones.

end of month when they can hit a bonus.

Most objective programs I have seen are quarterly (at least with one manufacturer). So end of month/quarter might be best.Also, speaking from a marketing stand point, the incentives will get better for July/Aug during the summer sell down and end of year during the big 'year end events'. And if you want to buy a truck, you can count on a 'Truck Month' for one month in the spring and one month in the fall.

Every dealership I have worked at or talked with co workers about were the same as mine when it came to this, the numbers were monthly, usually they would take last years number and add a % for this year same month at that % you get the first level, and so on.As far as truck month, we are big truck sellers here in texas, they are by far the best deals on the lot, and I agree there are a couple months a year where there may be a extra thousand or so in rebates, or for a trade you get more money etc. but for the most part you can always get a ridiculous deal on a truck. Now for example right now (well they are running out but for the past couple months) if you can find a 2012 truck you like (still new but 2013 has been out a while) you can get stupid deals on those. There is all the rebates as normal, but the manufacturer also adds what is called dealer cash, meaning the dealer can either keep that if they sell it (this is a decent amount below invoice they can play with) or they can discount a car even more to make it disappear. Getting 10k+ off a ram 1500 2012 if you find th right one would not be uncommon.None of our goals were quarterly besides in house goals that had nothign to do with the dealerships bottom line. And rebates change every month for all the cars, so a car with a 3k rebate now could be 1500.00 next month. All depends on what is selling and what isn't at that time.

 

[Al Czervik]

Is there any particular time of the month or year that is better for buying a car than any other? I heard Nov/Dec was great as dealers tend to be slower during the holidays and they are trying to get rid of last years models to make room for the new ones.

end of month when they can hit a bonus.

Most objective programs I have seen are quarterly (at least with one manufacturer). So end of month/quarter might be best.Also, speaking from a marketing stand point, the incentives will get better for July/Aug during the summer sell down and end of year during the big 'year end events'. And if you want to buy a truck, you can count on a 'Truck Month' for one month in the spring and one month in the fall.

Every dealership I have worked at or talked with co workers about were the same as mine when it came to this, the numbers were monthly, usually they would take last years number and add a % for this year same month at that % you get the first level, and so on.As far as truck month, we are big truck sellers here in texas, they are by far the best deals on the lot, and I agree there are a couple months a year where there may be a extra thousand or so in rebates, or for a trade you get more money etc. but for the most part you can always get a ridiculous deal on a truck. Now for example right now (well they are running out but for the past couple months) if you can find a 2012 truck you like (still new but 2013 has been out a while) you can get stupid deals on those. There is all the rebates as normal, but the manufacturer also adds what is called dealer cash, meaning the dealer can either keep that if they sell it (this is a decent amount below invoice they can play with) or they can discount a car even more to make it disappear. Getting 10k+ off a ram 1500 2012 if you find th right one would not be uncommon.None of our goals were quarterly besides in house goals that had nothign to do with the dealerships bottom line. And rebates change every month for all the cars, so a car with a 3k rebate now could be 1500.00 next month. All depends on what is selling and what isn't at that time.

Yea, was speaking from the standpoint of GM, where there are quarterly objective programs and the incentive cycle generally runs 60 days.

 

[glvsav37]

Great thread, thanks for pulling back the curtain on this. timing is good too....I just had my truck totaled and so we are gonna start looking for a new SUV for the family and I'm taking my wife's current SUV. She wants something with a 3rd row, but not a mini-van. We were going to start looking at the Dodge Durango, or GMC Arcadia.Any thoughts on the Durango? When did they go through the biggest model change, we may not buy new, but don't want to be too far behind the latest model.I want the 4-door Jeep, but so far no luck on that So, now that you're out, what are you going? You should be a new car buyer consultant?thanks again

 

[jamny]

Damn, just bought a new car last Saturday. Could've used this thread although I was pretty happy with the research I did and deal I got. Interesting reading though...thanks for opening up and helping out.

 

[Joe T]

Great thread, thanks for pulling back the curtain on this.

timing is good too....I just had my truck totaled and so we are gonna start looking for a new SUV for the family and I'm taking my wife's current SUV.

She wants something with a 3rd row, but not a mini-van. We were going to start looking at the Dodge Durango, or GMC Arcadia.

Any thoughts on the Durango? When did they go through the biggest model change, we may not buy new, but don't want to be too far behind the latest model.

I want the 4-door Jeep, but so far no luck on that

So, now that you're out, what are you going? You should be a new car buyer consultant?

thanks again

Toyota Highlander is the right decision here. We have one. It's great.

 

[Ignoramus]

You're doing the lord's work in here, codger.

 

[jamny]

Great thread, thanks for pulling back the curtain on this. timing is good too....I just had my truck totaled and so we are gonna start looking for a new SUV for the family and I'm taking my wife's current SUV. She wants something with a 3rd row, but not a mini-van. We were going to start looking at the Dodge Durango, or GMC Arcadia.Any thoughts on the Durango? When did they go through the biggest model change, we may not buy new, but don't want to be too far behind the latest model.I want the 4-door Jeep, but so far no luck on that So, now that you're out, what are you going? You should be a new car buyer consultant?thanks again

Check out the new Explorer Sport. 365hp, much improved handling, 3rd row seating. Got mine on Monday and love it. PIC

 

[godgers12]

Great thread, thanks for pulling back the curtain on this. timing is good too....I just had my truck totaled and so we are gonna start looking for a new SUV for the family and I'm taking my wife's current SUV. She wants something with a 3rd row, but not a mini-van. We were going to start looking at the Dodge Durango, or GMC Arcadia.Any thoughts on the Durango? When did they go through the biggest model change, we may not buy new, but don't want to be too far behind the latest model.I want the 4-door Jeep, but so far no luck on that So, now that you're out, what are you going? You should be a new car buyer consultant?thanks again

Durango is awesome, if you go wth the V6 you get 3 rows plenty of room and gas mileage up to 30 mpg. My FIL actually traded in his explorer for one and is very happy with it.They stopped making the Durango for a couple years and brought it back in 2011. So you don't have to worry about them coming out with a new model in the near future.As far as what is next I am not sure, just enjoying some time with my boys for a while and we will see.

 

[godgers12]

Great thread, thanks for pulling back the curtain on this.

timing is good too....I just had my truck totaled and so we are gonna start looking for a new SUV for the family and I'm taking my wife's current SUV.

She wants something with a 3rd row, but not a mini-van. We were going to start looking at the Dodge Durango, or GMC Arcadia.

Any thoughts on the Durango? When did they go through the biggest model change, we may not buy new, but don't want to be too far behind the latest model.

I want the 4-door Jeep, but so far no luck on that

So, now that you're out, what are you going? You should be a new car buyer consultant?

thanks again

Toyota Highlander is the right decision here. We have one. It's great.

Weird thing my MIL had a highlander and loved it but they have fallen quite a bit back compared to what is out now, I do believe they are in the process of a well needed refresh , I compare it to a Chevy pickup, with what is avaiable they are way behind. Also the safety ratings compared to the other SUVs in the class is not that great. She traded her highlander with every intention of getting another one, but couldnt pull the trigger. Talked her into a Wrangler instead My FIL was pleased lol.

 

[godgers12]

Great thread, thanks for pulling back the curtain on this. timing is good too....I just had my truck totaled and so we are gonna start looking for a new SUV for the family and I'm taking my wife's current SUV. She wants something with a 3rd row, but not a mini-van. We were going to start looking at the Dodge Durango, or GMC Arcadia.Any thoughts on the Durango? When did they go through the biggest model change, we may not buy new, but don't want to be too far behind the latest model.I want the 4-door Jeep, but so far no luck on that So, now that you're out, what are you going? You should be a new car buyer consultant?thanks again

Check out the new Explorer Sport. 365hp, much improved handling, 3rd row seating. Got mine on Monday and love it. PIC

This imo is obv the biggest competition for the Durango in the price range, but when comparing apples to apples the Explorer is quite a bit more. I REALLY like the body style etc. But have heard horror stories about the mytouch system. Honestly though I don't see going wrong either way and have nothing bad to say about the explorer, the refresh they did on it is nice.

 

[glvsav37]

Great thread, thanks for pulling back the curtain on this. timing is good too....I just had my truck totaled and so we are gonna start looking for a new SUV for the family and I'm taking my wife's current SUV. She wants something with a 3rd row, but not a mini-van. We were going to start looking at the Dodge Durango, or GMC Arcadia.Any thoughts on the Durango? When did they go through the biggest model change, we may not buy new, but don't want to be too far behind the latest model.I want the 4-door Jeep, but so far no luck on that So, now that you're out, what are you going? You should be a new car buyer consultant?thanks again

Check out the new Explorer Sport. 365hp, much improved handling, 3rd row seating. Got mine on Monday and love it. PIC

This imo is obv the biggest competition for the Durango in the price range, but when comparing apples to apples the Explorer is quite a bit more. I REALLY like the body style etc. But have heard horror stories about the mytouch system. Honestly though I don't see going wrong either way and have nothing bad to say about the explorer, the refresh they did on it is nice.

Thanks guys, we are just starting out, so this is great feedback.

 

[godgers12]

You're doing the lord's work in here, codger.

haha wouldn't say that but I will say that I feel a lot better knowing the right way to do this, but it is cringe worthy to think about how much i got ripped on the first new car i bought, and how little i knew thinking I knew a lot.

 

[jamny]

Great thread, thanks for pulling back the curtain on this. timing is good too....I just had my truck totaled and so we are gonna start looking for a new SUV for the family and I'm taking my wife's current SUV. She wants something with a 3rd row, but not a mini-van. We were going to start looking at the Dodge Durango, or GMC Arcadia.Any thoughts on the Durango? When did they go through the biggest model change, we may not buy new, but don't want to be too far behind the latest model.I want the 4-door Jeep, but so far no luck on that So, now that you're out, what are you going? You should be a new car buyer consultant?thanks again

Check out the new Explorer Sport. 365hp, much improved handling, 3rd row seating. Got mine on Monday and love it. PIC

This imo is obv the biggest competition for the Durango in the price range, but when comparing apples to apples the Explorer is quite a bit more. I REALLY like the body style etc. But have heard horror stories about the mytouch system. Honestly though I don't see going wrong either way and have nothing bad to say about the explorer, the refresh they did on it is nice.

Apparently the 2013 has addressed a lot of the bugs in previous MyTouch versions. So far, so good for me but it was definitely a concern when I was looking into it.