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Q: Best Offense in the AFC West? (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter burd
- Start date
John Mamula
Moderator
What's the complaint here?Denver may very well be a better overall offense than San Diego.
I was expecting that he said Oakland by your reaction.
DanFouts
Footballguy
Well, at least they all made the right decision in every other category........... 
simmonjm
Footballguy
I dont understand your dispute. ESPN ran a poll and San Diego only had 50% of nation saying they were the best offense. I definetly think you can make a case for the Denver offense being better than San Diego. Especially when you look at the WR's.
burd
Footballguy
ok, i'll admit my reaction may have been a little harsh becaue he didn't say Oakland, but i was amazed that he'd pick Denver. Cutler is in his 2nd season ... a little too early to crown him a success. He didn't even have a great rookie year, so I guess I question as to what Theisman saw that would lead him to believe that Denver would surpass the Chargers as the best offense in their division. SD has been among the most lethal offenses for a few years now, so it'll take more than a 2nd year QB for Denver to surpass SD>What's the complaint here?Denver may very well be a better overall offense than San Diego.
I was expecting that he said Oakland by your reaction.
John Mamula
Moderator
ok, i'll admit my reaction may have been a little harsh becaue he didn't say Oakland, but i was amazed that he'd pick Denver. Cutler is in his 2nd season ... a little too early to crown him a success. He didn't even have a great rookie year, so I guess I question as to what Theisman saw that would lead him to believe that Denver would surpass the Chargers as the best offense in their division. SD has been among the most lethal offenses for a few years now, so it'll take more than a 2nd year QB for Denver to surpass SD>What's the complaint here?Denver may very well be a better overall offense than San Diego.
I was expecting that he said Oakland by your reaction.
SD has the top RB, a great TE and that is it. Below average WRs and an average QB.
burd
Footballguy
Which team has the better, more game-ready QB going into 2007? Denver does have better WRs though.ok, i'll admit my reaction may have been a little harsh becaue he didn't say Oakland, but i was amazed that he'd pick Denver. Cutler is in his 2nd season ... a little too early to crown him a success. He didn't even have a great rookie year, so I guess I question as to what Theisman saw that would lead him to believe that Denver would surpass the Chargers as the best offense in their division. SD has been among the most lethal offenses for a few years now, so it'll take more than a 2nd year QB for Denver to surpass SD>What's the complaint here?Denver may very well be a better overall offense than San Diego.
I was expecting that he said Oakland by your reaction.
PatsWillWin
Footballguy
The "gap" between Rivers and Cutler could easily close quickly, and possibly go the other way by the end of this season.
This outrage is outrageous.
This outrage is outrageous.
John Mamula
Moderator
SD does, but the margin is small.SD may very well be the best offense, but to me the disparity is not that huge especially given Cutler's upside. I think Denver has a more well rounded offense but whether it will be better remains to be seen.Which team has the better, more game-ready QB going into 2007? Denver does have better WRs though.ok, i'll admit my reaction may have been a little harsh becaue he didn't say Oakland, but i was amazed that he'd pick Denver. Cutler is in his 2nd season ... a little too early to crown him a success. He didn't even have a great rookie year, so I guess I question as to what Theisman saw that would lead him to believe that Denver would surpass the Chargers as the best offense in their division. SD has been among the most lethal offenses for a few years now, so it'll take more than a 2nd year QB for Denver to surpass SD>What's the complaint here?Denver may very well be a better overall offense than San Diego.
I was expecting that he said Oakland by your reaction.
AnonymousBob
Footballguy
Waiting for SSOG to chime in...this could turn into a fun thread.
Really though, who cares? I don't feel it's silly to think Denver will have the best offense. Those who are supporting SD-if the Broncos actually had the better offense at the end of the season would you be absolutely shocked? I bit surprised perhaps but it's not as though the Raiders are being projected as the top dog.
Denver is historically one of the better offenses in the league.
Really though, who cares? I don't feel it's silly to think Denver will have the best offense. Those who are supporting SD-if the Broncos actually had the better offense at the end of the season would you be absolutely shocked? I bit surprised perhaps but it's not as though the Raiders are being projected as the top dog.
Denver is historically one of the better offenses in the league.
Yeah, I would say SD > DEN > KC > OAK, so it's not a huge stretch to move Denver up one spot.Denver is better at WR1, and maybe C and WR2, so I'd give the edge to SD at no fewer than 8 of the 11 starting positions. But it's not like Theisman picked Oakland.What's the complaint here?Denver may very well be a better overall offense than San Diego.
I was expecting that he said Oakland by your reaction.
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stevegamer
Footballguy
I was expecting him to have picked the Seahawks or something truly funny.
Denver Obsession
Footballguy
Of course, I'm bias. 
But Denver's offensive struggles last year were more the result of Matt Lepsis being lost and the following lack of a balanced running game than any issue at QB.
I've heard many people talk about our points per game going from ~17 to mid-20's with Jay behind center, but Jay Cutler is not going be the real difference maker.
The healthy return of Lepsis and the pick up of Travis Henry will be the real reason Denver will dominate the AFC West.
Mark my words, everyone will say it's Jay Cutler when it happens -- as his stats will obviously be seen as wonderful (especially if our ground game developes early on). However, the truth will be that Cutler owes that success to our O-line and Matt.
I can't take credit for it, but this is a great post from the broncomania forum regarding Denver's offensive production last year with and without Lepsis. It's worth a read if you admire good research and insight into Denver's O-line.
Denver's O-line Post
But Denver's offensive struggles last year were more the result of Matt Lepsis being lost and the following lack of a balanced running game than any issue at QB.
I've heard many people talk about our points per game going from ~17 to mid-20's with Jay behind center, but Jay Cutler is not going be the real difference maker.
The healthy return of Lepsis and the pick up of Travis Henry will be the real reason Denver will dominate the AFC West.
Mark my words, everyone will say it's Jay Cutler when it happens -- as his stats will obviously be seen as wonderful (especially if our ground game developes early on). However, the truth will be that Cutler owes that success to our O-line and Matt.
I can't take credit for it, but this is a great post from the broncomania forum regarding Denver's offensive production last year with and without Lepsis. It's worth a read if you admire good research and insight into Denver's O-line.
Denver's O-line Post
. . . compared to the Chargers' > 30 points per game.
SSOG
Moderator
First off, to get it out on the table... I'm a Denver fan. I also think that San Diego's offense is better than Denver's. With that said, it's hardly ludicrous to suggest that Denver has a better offense than San Diego, here. Denver's offense has been top-10 in 9 of Shanahan's 12 seasons. It's been top-5 a ridiculous 8 times in 12 years. Denver has a better offensive line, DRASTICALLY better WRs, and while they don't have any Tomlinson or Gates, they have Scheffler/Graham (remember, Graham makes more money than Gates here), and they have Bobby Turner, RB coach extraordinaire. Perhaps even more important is offensive stability- Denver's retaining all key offensive coaches, while San Diego is turning over pretty much their entire staff, replacing their head coach with a guy who hasn't presided over a top-5 offense since 1993.I think it's more ludicrous to suggest that San Diego's offense is head and shoulders above the competition (which is what you're suggesting here, if you think it's silly to suggest anyone could possibly be better). I also think it's silly that San Diego was the unanimous choice for best defense in the division, seeing as they weren't much better than Denver last year, and Denver added a ton of help (Bly, Adams, Kennedy, Moss, Thomas) and the incomparable Jim Bates as a defensive coordinator, while the Chargers added... Ted Cottrell (burd said:
).I think Denver and San Diego will be pretty close offensively (with a slight edge to SD), but Denver will be better defensively, and better overall.
SSOG
Moderator
Spoken like someone with no real knowledge of the Denver offense.SD QB >> Den QB- sure, I'll buy this because Cutler really hasn't proven anything yet, but this could change in a hurry.SD OL >>> Denver OL? Doubt it. Denver always has one of the best OLs in the entire league, and they're incredibly deep. Nalen is a HoFer who is still playing as well as he ever has, and claiming that Marcus McNeill is especially better than Lepsis is a JOKE. Matt Lepsis is probably one of the top 3 OTs in the entire NFL (Zimmerman rated him as the #1 tackle in the entire league after the 2005 season- ahead of Pace, Ogden, and the immortal Walter Jones). Lepsis is relatively unknown, but the guy is an absolute STUD. McNeill was unbelievable last year, and looks like he'll be the next coming of Pace/Jones/Ogden, but Lepsis is already at that level. Along the rest of the line, too, Denver probably gets the advantage at LG and RT, although there are some question marks at RG for Denver. And if you count Graham as part of the OLine, Denver's OLine blows SD's out of the water. If you *DON'T* count Graham as part of the OL...SD TE >>>>> Den TE? Gates is the third highest paid TE in his own division, behind both Gonzo and Daniel Graham. I'm not saying that Graham is better than Gates, but Graham is a stud, one of the best TEs in the entire league, though he's drastically underrated because as a receiver he's average (he blocks like a freaking tackle, though). Since Scheffler is way better than any TE2 SD can trot out, I'd call it a wash. It might not look at it if you only look at fantasy statistics, but if we're talking real-world NFL, it is.SD FB >> Den FB. Maybe, although Denver's talking about using its FB less this season and playing more in 2-TE sets, so the better comparison would be SD FB vs. Denver's TE2.Den WR >> SD WR? You forgot a few ">"s there. Javon Walker is a freaking ALL PRO. Rod Smith is the leading receiver in Broncos history. Brandon Marshall, Denver's WR3, is probably as good as Vincent Jackson, SD's WR1.So, let's review.SD QB >> Den QBSD RB >>>>> Den RBDen OL >>>>> SD OLDen WR >>>>> SD WRSD TE == Den TEEdit: Oh, I forgot coaches. Den Coaches >>>>> SD Coaches.DanFouts said:
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dparker713
Footballguy
Thats my view of the situation. While the Denver OL is better as a unit, having LT makes the SD OL job easier so I don't see that as much of a bonus for Denver.As for the TEs, you're dead wrong, they arent a wash. Gates is a game breaker, he puts points on the board. Having a good blocking TE is nice and all, but that hardly has the same value. And their salaries are fairly meaningless. Frankly, as far as receiving options, you can call Walker and Gates a wash, or atleast close. Then the next best option on either team is LT, though they've been scaling back his receiving duties. Overall, Denver has the better options, but only because SD has scrubs. Also, Im not sold on SD's D being the best in the west. Champ Bailey was an absolute monster last year and now he's paired with Dre Bly. Thats just a nightmare for opposing QBs. It probably is SD, but its hardly a slam dunk.
LT: I would give the edge to McNeil over Lepsis. (Lepsis may be a ten-year vet, but I believe McNeil already has more Pro Bowls than Lepsis.
) LG: I think Kris Dielman is solidly better than Ben Hamilton.C: This one is close. Hardwick made the Pro Bowl over Nalen last year, and Nalen is on the downside of his career while Hardwick is on the upside. I would pick Hardwick, but if you want to pick Nalen I won't argue.RG: I would give the edge to Mike Goff over Montrae Holland.RT: I would give the edge to Shane Olivea over Erik Pears.I understand that the whole can sometimes be greater than (or less than) the sum of its parts. But the Chargers' OL played up to their potential as a group last year.
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SSOG
Moderator
Receiving statistics tend to be overrated when evaluating TEs. I mean, who makes more money- the best WRs in the league, or the best LTs in the league? In the NFL, how you block is every bit as valuable as how you catch, and Graham could literally start at tackle for a lot of teams in the league. His receiving is just icing on the cake. I wouldn't argue with anyone who said that Gates was better than Graham, but when you throw Scheffler into the mix, I really do think it's pretty close.
I don't think any of those claims are unreasonable, but I definitely disagree. Evaluating Denver OLs based on pro bowl appearances is a little bit unfair, since it's harder to make the pro bowl in Denver than anywhere else. 1/3rd of the pro bowl vote comes from opposing DLs, and all of the DLs in the league despise Denver's line. Another 1/3rd of the pro bowl vote comes from the fans, who generally vote for who the media talks about... and the media doesn't talk about the Denver OLs because of the "code of silence". I firmly believe that in a couple of years, McNeill will be one of the top 3 LTs in the entire game (probably #1, since I don't see any other great young LTs right now)... but I also believe that, if he's healthy, Lepsis already *IS* one of the top three LTs in the game. Of course, there's that whole "if he's healthy" thing- a lot of this depends on whether Lepsis is in fact fully recovered.I disagree that Dielman is solidly better than Hamilton. Hamilton needs more of a mean streak, but he's one of the top guards in the league, in my opinion. I also wouldn't take Hardwick over Nalen until Nalen stopped showing that he could play at an extremely high level. I wouldn't argue in the slightest over putting Goff over Holland, especially given Holland's inexperience in the system. I also have to confess that I don't know enough about Shane Olivea (or about how Pears will play at RT) to make that call.If Lepsis really is back to his 2005 form, I feel strongly that Denver's OL is noticeably better than SD's. If Lepsis's injury is lingering, or if he's lost a couple of steps, then I agree that SD's OL is better.LT: I would give the edge to McNeil over Lepsis. (Lepsis may be a ten-year vet, but I believe McNeil already has more Pro Bowls than Lepsis.) LG: I think Kris Dielman is solidly better than Ben Hamilton.C: This one is close. Hardwick made the Pro Bowl over Nalen last year, and Nalen is on the downside of his career while Hardwick is on the upside. I would pick Hardwick, but if you want to pick Nalen I won't argue.RG: I would give the edge to Mike Goff over Montrae Holland.RT: I would give the edge to Shane Olivea over Erik Pears.I understand that the whole can sometimes be greater than (or less than) the sum of its parts. But the Chargers' OL played up to their potential as a group last year.
Air Coryell
Footballguy
Who cares who's the highest paid? Gates had the most rec yards and TDs last year of any TE. Graham had about 1/4 of the stats that Gates did. Gates is an impact player, the best thing you can muster on Graham is he blocks like a lineman.I don't see how you can use TE2 to make up for the huge difference between Gates and Graham. Scheffler had 18 catches last year Manumaleuna had 14. Not only does Manu block like a tackle he looks like one too.There is no way the Chargers are not better at TE than Den.
Grigs Allmoon
Footballguy
wertwert said:
Bingo!I'd put my money on the Chargers to finish with better numbers, but the Broncos aren't exactly wretched on that side of the ball, and Shanahan is proven...
jurb26
Footballguy
Den very well may surpass SD this year, but they have a LOT of ground to make up if their going to. SD was #4 in yds and #1 in scoring last year. They essential haven't lost any key players and possibly added better WR talent. Of course the coaching change has to be considered. Even with the new coaching, I find it hard to believe that Den will be better offensively than SD. I do expect their D to be better and that might be even more absurd to people.
BigSteelThrill
Footballguy
No freakin' way.You are a total homer. This post just crushes any respect you had earned. Why even post such garbage?
SSOG
Moderator
Darrell Jackson had like a billion times better stats than Walter Jones, too. Does that mean that D-Jax is a bigger impact player than Walter Jones? Do you think there's an coach or scout in the league that would rather have D-Jax than Walter Jones? I'm sure every single fantasy owner would rather have D-Jax, but when you're talking about actual NFL offenses, Walter Jones is one of the biggest impact offensive players in the league without ever touching the ball. In real football, blocking matters.
I find myself agreeing with you a heckuvalot more this year than I did last year. Seriously, who are you, and what have you done with jurb?
Seriously, have you ever watched Denver play? Did you see Lepsis play before he got hurt? Lepsis is one of the best OTs in the entire NFL, Tom Nalen is a HoFer, and Ben Hamilton is a stud. Nobody in the entire league has as strong of a left side of the line as Denver. Eric Pears was a rookie last year and acquitted himself very well at LT last year, so he should be solid at RT. Montrae Holland is the weak link, but he's not the kind of guard that you're surprised to see starting in the league. Beyond just the starters, though, look at the depth. Denver's primary backup is Adam Meadows, who could be a starting tackle for several teams right now, and they have several guards in Myers and Kuper who they are incredibly high on, and who have spent several years in the system now, and after that is Ryan Harris, who was a first day pick at a position that Denver usually fills with 6th, 7th, or UFAs. Denver has a lot of talent on the line, has a proven offensive line coach, has a ton of continuity, and most importantly, has proven system that everyone (except for Holland) is extremely experienced in.And again, I have made my feelings very clear on the TE point. Gates is better than Graham, but Graham is still one of the top 5-10 TEs in the league, and Scheffler is good enough to make up the difference. Blocking might not win you many fantasy titles, but it wins a lot of NFL titles.
Air Coryell
Footballguy
How on earth would a guy with 18 career receptions make up a difference between probably the top TE in the entire league vs. a guy who is primarily a blocking TE? Graham would need to block like Walter Jones and Marcus McNeil combined. We're also not comparing stats between a WR and a OT, but comparing stats between 2 TEs. Again no way are Denver's TE equal to SD.
burd
Footballguy
Denver may be an up and coming offense, but the fact of the matter is that they're going into the season w/ a 2nd year QB who struggled mightely at times last season and a new RB that has proven to be a good but unspectacular RB.
SD has by far the best RB, and the best TE (statisitcally). They've consistently rank amongst the best offenses as well. The question posed to Prof. Theissman was "Who's the best offense in the AFC West?". Any answer other than "San Diego" is just silly.
SD has by far the best RB, and the best TE (statisitcally). They've consistently rank amongst the best offenses as well. The question posed to Prof. Theissman was "Who's the best offense in the AFC West?". Any answer other than "San Diego" is just silly.
simmonjm
Footballguy
This thread is funny. No one has mentioned that the fact that Phillip Rivers has only 16 career starts vs. a half season for Jay Cutler. How is Phillip Rivers so much better than Jay Cutler? I shudder to think how good Cutler would have looked if he had LT running the ball instead of some undrafted FA and Tatum Bell.Denver may be an up and coming offense, but the fact of the matter is that they're going into the season w/ a 2nd year QB who struggled mightely at times last season and a new RB that has proven to be a good but unspectacular RB.SD has by far the best RB, and the best TE (statisitcally). They've consistently rank amongst the best offenses as well. The question posed to Prof. Theissman was "Who's the best offense in the AFC West?". Any answer other than "San Diego" is just silly.
Grigs Allmoon
Footballguy
Rivers only has 16 starts, but he does have 2 years of watching/learning behind a pretty good QB. Granted you'll learn a ton more by playing, but there have been a lot of QBs come out with a lot of success after "watching" for a couple years.(It would be interesting to see some sort of stat on the success of QBs that start from day 1, game 9, year 2, year 3, etc...)This thread is funny. No one has mentioned that the fact that Phillip Rivers has only 16 career starts vs. a half season for Jay Cutler. How is Phillip Rivers so much better than Jay Cutler? I shudder to think how good Cutler would have looked if he had LT running the ball instead of some undrafted FA and Tatum Bell.Denver may be an up and coming offense, but the fact of the matter is that they're going into the season w/ a 2nd year QB who struggled mightely at times last season and a new RB that has proven to be a good but unspectacular RB.SD has by far the best RB, and the best TE (statisitcally). They've consistently rank amongst the best offenses as well. The question posed to Prof. Theissman was "Who's the best offense in the AFC West?". Any answer other than "San Diego" is just silly.
This is a question Bronco fans will be asking themselves for the next several years.
Traders2001
Footballguy
The Chargers have two weapons on offense ( LT and Gates ) that s it no WR , of course they have a great defense that gets them the ball in good field position to score more points ( Denver does nt ) but they only have two good players on offense .I would say NE offense this season will be better then the Chargers also.ok, i'll admit my reaction may have been a little harsh becaue he didn't say Oakland, but i was amazed that he'd pick Denver. Cutler is in his 2nd season ... a little too early to crown him a success. He didn't even have a great rookie year, so I guess I question as to what Theisman saw that would lead him to believe that Denver would surpass the Chargers as the best offense in their division. SD has been among the most lethal offenses for a few years now, so it'll take more than a 2nd year QB for Denver to surpass SD>What's the complaint here?Denver may very well be a better overall offense than San Diego.
I was expecting that he said Oakland by your reaction.
Traders2001
Footballguy
Why .. They a QB that manages the games but wont beat you, and no WR 's.They score lots of points because the defense gives them the ball in good position .Denver may be an up and coming offense, but the fact of the matter is that they're going into the season w/ a 2nd year QB who struggled mightely at times last season and a new RB that has proven to be a good but unspectacular RB.SD has by far the best RB, and the best TE (statisitcally). They've consistently rank amongst the best offenses as well. The question posed to Prof. Theissman was "Who's the best offense in the AFC West?". Any answer other than "San Diego" is just silly.
The Jacket
Footballguy
SSOG is such an embarrassing homer.
Saints-Man
Footballguy
Me too!What's the complaint here?Denver may very well be a better overall offense than San Diego.
I was expecting that he said Oakland by your reaction.
Despyzer
Lousy Attention Whore
You do know that McNeil played at such a high level last year with TWO BROKEN HANDS, right?Also, your persistent argument that Gates isn't that good because he's the third highest paid TE in the division cracks me up. Please keep it up. You also might want to look a little closer at Brandon Manumaleuna. Dismissing him as a TE2 that doesn't measure up to Scheffler makes you look "like someone with no real knowledge of the Denver San Diego offense."
-OZ-
Footballguy
The difference between Gates and Scheffler as an offensive weapon is greater than the difference between Graham and Manumaleuna as a blocker. I admit Graham is underrated, but let's try to be reasonable here.
Let's breakdown Denver's TE2 Scheffler's 2006 season before knocking his 18 career receptions. Scheffler didn't play or start in all the games last year. What is really worth noting is Scheffler's performance when Cutler started at QB vs. when Plummer started at QB. Cutler started the last 5 games - Plummer the first 11.
Scheffler w/ Plummer at QB for 11 games:
6 total receptions for 67 total yards, 0 touchdowns. (Let's face it - Plummer only looked for Walker and Smith - Only Smith when he got in trouble. When he passed to a TE, he usually hung them out - just ask the star of "Jacked Up" from the 2005 season, Jeb Putzier.)
Scheffler w/ Cutler at QB for 5 games:
12 total receptions for 219 yards, 4 touchdowns.
IF you average Scheffler's performance with Cutler and spread it out over a full 16 game season, you could predict 38 receptions, 700 yards, and 13 touchdowns.
In 2006, Gates totaled 71 receptions, 924 yards and 9 touchdowns.
IMHO, SSOG has a very valid point and Scheffler does/will make up the difference. Scheffler does noticably put points on the board when Cutler is the QB.
I am a Denver fan, but all my points above are based upon stats found here:
Tony Scheffler on Yahoo Sports and Antonio Gates on Yahoo Sports
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moleculo
Footballguy
I'm not willing to extrapolate a 5 game hot streak from two rookies at the end of a season - we simply don't have enough data to conclude Sheffler will be anywhere near as productive as Gates. Not to mention that Sheffler has a broken foot right now. This whole debate is ludicrous. I'm as big of a Bronco homer as anyone else, but if you were to ask me who has the better O right now, it would be SD, and it wouldn't be that close. The assumption that Den's O is better is leaning on way too many unknowns - performance of Henry/Graham on new team, Cutler/Scheffler avoiding sophmore slumps, continued emergence of BMarshall, and SD regressing w/ new coaches (I don't see that - if anything they should be more explosive w/o Marty ball). it is very possible that everything comes up Denver, but I wouldn't bet on it.
The last 5 Denver games - Cutler's first 5 starts - were a hot streak?That statement is just as broad of a stroke IMHO.And I'm not saying it all comes up Denver by any means. I am saying I agree w/ SSOG on the TE debate above.
How many years has Rivers started again? Denver has much better WR's and above average RB and TE. SD has Gates and LT. Denver is more balanced, so this isn't much of a stretch. Not to mention Shanny makes up for a lot, and now that he has a top QB, RB, TE, and WR things will be exciting for the Denver offense.ok, i'll admit my reaction may have been a little harsh becaue he didn't say Oakland, but i was amazed that he'd pick Denver. Cutler is in his 2nd season ... a little too early to crown him a success. He didn't even have a great rookie year, so I guess I question as to what Theisman saw that would lead him to believe that Denver would surpass the Chargers as the best offense in their division. SD has been among the most lethal offenses for a few years now, so it'll take more than a 2nd year QB for Denver to surpass SD>What's the complaint here?Denver may very well be a better overall offense than San Diego.
I was expecting that he said Oakland by your reaction.
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SSOG
Moderator
I can agree with all of this except for one point- San Diego's offense *WAS* much more explosive without Martyball. I know this for a fact, because Martyball has been dead for years (outside of a brief revival for the first 2-3 games of last season, and its annual reappearance in the playoffs).Seriously, look at how many TD passes Tomlinson has had over the past 2-3 years. Is the Halfback Option a staple of Martyball, here? Over the past two seasons, SD has called 992 passes and 987 rushes (despite having the best RB in football). More passing attempts than rushing attempts... is that a staple of Martyball, too? Especially when you have the best RB in football?San Diego's offense hasn't really been "Martyball" since 2003, or maybe the middle of 2004. It's been a very aggressive, creative offense designed to fit the talents at hand. That offense is the reason why Cam Cameron is a head coach right now- he certainly wasn't a hot candidate because he ran a dressed-up Martyball. The only time San Diego has really gone with Martyball... has been in the playoffs.
I am a San Diego fan and yet I agree with this post. If you look at the players individually, I think San Diego has the best team in the NFL. The problem is, teams do not win based on how good each player is, but on how well they play together and how well they are coached.Look at the loss to NEP in the playoffs. If Parker does not fumble that punt, or if the CB does not draw that unsportsmanlike conduct penalty, San Diego probably wins that game. But those problems are coaching, its not players, its coaching. How do you think NE gets into the playoffs every year. I don't think they have the best players top to bottom, but they are coached extremely well.I think San Diego is the best team in the AFC West, but I can see DEN winning the division.I agree with the common argument in this thread that Cutler will likely close the gap between himself and Rivers and even though LT and Gates are the best in the entire league at their position, DEN has always had a good running game and Scheffler/Graham may be a surprise this year.DEN will also likely have an improved DEF with the exception of DB where they have to replace Darrent Williams. Don't misunderstand me, I still think SD will have the better D, but DEN will be good as well.
vinwinephans
Footballguy
Theismann picks Denver for best offense, but when explaining why SD is the best team, he says, "The Broncos will be close down the stretch, but San Diego simply has too much firepower."
FIREPOWER
When one uses FIREPOWER, what are they talking about? I always think offense when I see/use FIREPOWER.
FIREPOWER
When one uses FIREPOWER, what are they talking about? I always think offense when I see/use FIREPOWER.
dparker713
Footballguy
Thats a completely insane prediction. You're projecting a TE to average 18.4 ypc and a TD every 2.9 receptions. Completely ridiculous. Also, please note the last 5 opponents for Denver werent very good last year, excepting SD whom they were shut down by every possession that mattered. (Sea, @SD, @Ari, Cin, SF) If he is going to be used as a 2-3 reception type of player, than he'll certainly have games where he has no catches and is a non factor.
To compare Scheffler's production as a 3rd or 4th option to Gates' as the primary option and claim they've got similar ability is just ludicrous. Any assertion that they have similar talent is just complete fantasy at this point.
That's not a prediction - notice the IF in the statement?I did not claim they have similar abilities either. Don't put words in my mouth and keys in my fingers.
However, if you apply what I said and actually read it without adding to it - it does back up SSOG's argument that Scheffler is definitely CAPABLE of making up the difference between All-World Gates and All-Pro Graham.
As an aside, 2 of Scheffler's 4 TDs came against SD. The argument that SD chose which possessions mattered and only shut those down is "just ludicrous".
SSOG
Moderator
I was one of the biggest Darrent Williams fans on the entire board, and definitely thought he was on his way to becoming something really special before tragedy struck, but even I think that Bly is an upgrade over Darrent Williams. The downgrade on defense this year is at LB, where they have to replace Al Wilson.
I really like how you put that. It's not a question of whether Scheffler can hold Gates' jock, it's a question of whether Scheffler is enough to make up the difference between All-World Gates and All-Pro Graham.
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dparker713
Footballguy
Graham has zero pro bowl appearances, just as many as Manumaleuna and Scheffler. And if you want to take the top 2 on Denver, you also need to take the top 2 on SD. And if all you want out of a TE is to block and maybe catch an odd pass here and there, why not just line up an extra guard or tackle. As for the game against SD, they were up 28-6, Scheffler scores 2 TDs to make it 28-20, and then SD shuts them down as they score 20 points in the 4th. So yeah, SD shut them down when it mattered.
