Amused to Death
Footballguy
I have a hard time putting Prescott and Cousins ahead of Hurts but otherwise pretty reasonable even if Rodgers is debatable going into '23.
Personally I think Hurts is the best in the NFC at this point.
Fantasy Football - Footballguys Forums
This is a sample guest message. Register a free account today to become a member! Once signed in, you'll be able to participate on this site by adding your own topics and posts, as well as connect with other members through your own private inbox!
QB Jalen Hurts, PHI (3 Viewers)
- Thread starter elguapo07
- Start date
Personally I think Hurts is the best in the NFC at this point.
Terpman22
Footballguy
Oh cool. Before last season. Can you find one ranking before the 2021 and 2020 season too to further your point lol.
The Athletic had Hurts at 20th before the year. He jumped, but it's behind a paywall. You're telling me one year puts him in the top eight?
Bravo for reaching!
NFL Quarterback Tiers 2022: How 50 coaches and execs rank the league's best
Aaron Rodgers remains the NFL's best QB, according to coaches and team executives, while a new generation shows great promise.theathletic.com
Terpman22
Footballguy
The top 5 is within the top 10
rockaction
Footballguy
Sure. I just did. It's from July 15, 2022.
They jumped Hurts's ranking. I disagree at how much it jumped. I think that's fair based upon one year.
Another QB that I dropped from one year that they did too, is Wilson, and I'm not sure he'll come back worse than Hurts. If anything, he looked last year like Jalen did before this year.
Granted, guys ascend and descend all the time, but tell me Hurts is what he is without that team around him. Foles even looked good behind a Philly line. The Pats never stopped them in the Super Bowl.
Wentz looked good for a while behind a Howie-constructed line.
rockaction
Footballguy
Hurts in the top five is a hernia-inducing event. Bravo!
Just imagine how much richer all the team owners have gotten to be able to easily afford these high salaries.
Terpman22
Footballguy
Gotta lotta disagreein to do bud
https://www.nfl.com/news/nfl-qb-ind...rimary-starting-quarterbacks-at-the-end-of-th - 2
https://sportsnaut.com/nfl-qb-rankings/ - 2
https://www.profootballnetwork.com/nfl-qb-power-rankings/ - 4
https://www.pff.com/news/nfl-2022-nfl-quarterback-rankings-and-tiers - 5
https://www.the33rdteam.com/category/rankings/way-too-early-nfl-quarterback-rankings-for-2023/ - 2
Amused to Death
Footballguy
That's why the players deserve everything they can get.
BobbyLayne
Footballguy
great job by the Eagles and Hurts (all-female) team getting the deal done
you taking notes, Lamar?
you taking notes, Lamar?
rockaction
Footballguy
Four writers and this disclaimer from PFF
Note: This is a ranking of the top QBs from the 2022 season (regular and playoffs) only. It’s not a projection moving forward.
Terpman22
Footballguy
Hey! Everything I posted is from *this* calendar year. You went to preseason 2022 before Hurts had the season he had that put him above Dak/Cousins/Kyler/and the other guys at the bottom 12 of a top 12 list. That was a reach.
rockaction
Footballguy
Three guys I've never heard of and Matt Cassel. Good stuff!
I hope they had a spotter when they were moving him into the top five. That's heavy lifting.
Terpman22
Footballguy
Lamar has crapped the bed already and dug in b/c its got so far now I believe he takes it personal. I don't see a way they will mend the fences, even with the structure of this Hurts deal as proof "You aren't getting a full GTD contract buddy" b/c ya know, he DID win an MVP but that was a long time ago in NFL years and he has been oft-injured since.
So yeah, I don't think he is taking notes at all lol.
Terpman22
Footballguy
Until you produce 5 of your own from *this* year I will accept your takes as complete trolling and Eagles hate. And thats OK! I talk to delusional fans all the time that don't know what they are talking about and use obscure "NextGen" stats to help either prop up their QB (often times the Dak Defense Team) and also crap on Hurts. Opinions based in reality is what I respect, not wishful hating. Good luck with your team next season man! And your QB!
rockaction
Footballguy
I might as well ask would-be porn stars roving the Inner Empire of California with that question given some of the sourcing you've presented. Good work.
Terpman22
Footballguy
I don't see a link from this year just more hot air bc you are fighting an imaginary battle in an imaginary world where Hurts is not a top of the line QB. You got your own ranking, a list from July 2022 (which is laughable and shows how desperate you are to knock Hurts) and I have the entire internet. Like I said, its trolling. Good job and good luck!
rockaction
Footballguy
Four clowns and a former QB do not equal "the entire internet." LOL. Good work!
rockaction
Footballguy
2/8/2023
qbrankings.theringer.com
Hurts - 9th
The Ringer's 2022 QB Rankings
Everything you need to know about the NFL's top passers.
qbrankings.theringer.com
Hurts - 9th
Terpman22
Footballguy
Hey! There ya go. So you got 1 and I got 5. 16% of links show Hurts is NOT a top 5 QB. 84% do. I'll take that! Even using this 9, on average of the 6 links, he comes in with an average ranking of 4. Not bad!!2/8/2023
The Ringer's 2022 QB Rankings
Everything you need to know about the NFL's top passers.
Hurts - 9th
rockaction
Footballguy
My eyes couldn't roll any further back in my head.
But it was a great signing and a great job by Roseman to leave cap room while locking up a worthy guy at his position. Good work. Don't let my top ten comment deter too much from that. I don't see anybody overtaking him in the top twelve anytime soon, and there are guys there that will fall out, so it's not like I hate Hurts or anything. I think he's top eleven or so in the world. That's high praise, even for the NFL, never mind everywhere else.
It's just that Deamon likes to bite ankles about even casual statements, and it annoys the **** out of me.
Terpman22
Footballguy
All good. I'm not mad or offended. I agree its a great deal for both sides, and allows the Eagles overall to be more competitive and "load the roster up" or whatever to help the QB out b/c team game and all, no one does it on their own. The way the cap hits are structured, at this point, I DO expect a big trade or the like, possibly like Budda Baker coming in to replace CJGJ or someone out of leftfield to really help out the offense. I'm used to people trying to knock down the Eagles, Hurts and excuse their success as a general rule. I'm here for it!
I need to see another year before I move him to top of the NFC. There's been a lot of guys who blew up and then never were able to follow up. Hell, the Eagles have had 3 in the last 15 years (2010 Vick, 2013 Foles, 2017 Wentz) to me Cousins and especially Prescott's large sample size track record makes me trust them more.I have a hard time putting Prescott and Cousins ahead of Hurts but otherwise pretty reasonable even if Rodgers is debatable going into '23.
Personally I think Hurts is the best in the NFC at this point.
Until he gets traded, I think Rodgers is clearly the best QB in the NFC. I feel like was a lot better than he gets credit for, playing with a broken thumb, and next to nothing at WR/TE. Packer fans are in for a very rude awakening in my opinion. They might be the worst team in the division without Rodgers.
Its not just with Hurts, but I think there is always a bit of an overreaction to whatever just happened, and things lose perspective. I mean, anyone making an argument Hurts isn't good is crazy, I'm just not ready to say 2022 is what he is, or that he'll just keep improving. If he plays 2023 at that same level, and everyone I listed above him does as well, I'd move Hurts up to 4th. But are Rodgers and Prescott both gonna break parts of their throwing hands again? Is Herbert gonna break his ribs again? I won't disagree that Hurts was the best QB in the NFC in 2022, I'm just disagreeing that 2022 is all that matters.
Terpman22
Footballguy
Trust them more to do what exactly? Both these guys are the same player. Same exact career passer rating, same exact lack of clutch in their game to get their teams anywhere in the postseason. Same exact overpaid contract structure. Both have an elite weapon to throw to, both come up small in the biggest moments. With regard to Rodgers is "almost as if" a QB also needs weapons. I guess the only reason he got those back to back MVPs b/c they were loaded rosters? And all these guys are *fully developed QBs* with at least 7 years of starting experience, Rodgers with double that amount. Its very reasonable to have a "wait and see/prove it again" approach with Hurts. But every good QB, even Dak and Cousins were not who they are today with just 2 years of starting experience. Its reasonable to project he will continue to improve. Hurts had a 100+ passer rating in just his 2nd season. Dak in his first and he regressed big time in his 2nd year, but bounced back right? Brady didn't have a 100+ passer rating until his 8th year. The same year that Moss showed up. Dak didn't bounce back until Amari showed up. Allen with Diggs, Lawrence with Kirk, Stafford with Megatron, etc etc. My overall point is considering the roster, considering the comments/excuses "why" Hurts is successful, and the fact that the OC knows knows him, has known him since he was in HS, its safe to me to expect improvement b/c the Eagles still have the best offensive line, a top 5 tight end at minimum and probably a top 2 receiving duo. Sure maybe his rushing totals go down, but I just don't see a world where he actually regressed, with what we have on the team now and what we will continue to add with 2 first round draft picks and whatever magic moves Howie still has yet up his sleeve. If you are projecting a decrease in production a regression, etc, it just goes against everything he has proven during his football career the past 5-6 years dating back to college.I need to see another year before I move him to top of the NFC. There's been a lot of guys who blew up and then never were able to follow up. Hell, the Eagles have had 3 in the last 15 years (2010 Vick, 2013 Foles, 2017 Wentz) to me Cousins and especially Prescott's large sample size track record makes me trust them more.I have a hard time putting Prescott and Cousins ahead of Hurts but otherwise pretty reasonable even if Rodgers is debatable going into '23.
Personally I think Hurts is the best in the NFC at this point.
Until he gets traded, I think Rodgers is clearly the best QB in the NFC. I feel like was a lot better than he gets credit for, playing with a broken thumb, and next to nothing at WR/TE. Packer fans are in for a very rude awakening in my opinion. They might be the worst team in the division without Rodgers.
Its not just with Hurts, but I think there is always a bit of an overreaction to whatever just happened, and things lose perspective. I mean, anyone making an argument Hurts isn't good is crazy, I'm just not ready to say 2022 is what he is, or that he'll just keep improving. If he plays 2023 at that same level, and everyone I listed above him does as well, I'd move Hurts up to 4th. But are Rodgers and Prescott both gonna break parts of their throwing hands again? Is Herbert gonna break his ribs again? I won't disagree that Hurts was the best QB in the NFC in 2022, I'm just disagreeing that 2022 is all that matters.
Ministry of Pain
Footballguy
Hurts had female sports agents representing him?
Whoever did this deal just picked up several more massive deals on the horizon
Refreshing to hear females going in and ironing the contracts out, LOVE IT!
Hurts should call his buddy Lamar and just say "take her phone call"
Last edited:
Ministry of Pain
Footballguy
Sometimes people take my posts the wrong way so I want to be clear here.
Typically a fan of yours, might not totally agree with you on this topic but I want to hear more and would prefer people not attack you
Can you share what you feel Hurts is missing in his game or approach or style or production?
I'm not going to shell you because you've proven over a long period of time that you're not crazy.
I would like to understand your POV better
I will say that if Hurts got $250MM++
Mike Brown must be having bouts of dissenteria right now
Burrow was #1 overall, went to B2B AFCC and was within a couple FDs of winning the Super Bowl, maybe he should have been extended already
I would ask for more than Mahomes got if I was Joe Burrow
$500M over 8 years nothing less
If the going rate for a strong starting QB is $50M, then Burrow is easily worth $60-$75M a season, right?
I'm tryign to help a little but I want to hear where you are going with all of this in terms of salaries and contracts for other QBs ready to be extended.
BobbyLayne
Footballguy
His entire management team is female.
Nicole Lynn, his agent, is the President of NFL Ops at Klutch Sports Group - LeBron’s agent owns the firm. She was the first woman to represent an NFL Draft pick (Quinnen Williams) and the next year she signed Hurts after cold calling him via DM on IG.
Shoot your shot.
rockaction
Footballguy
You're asking a question beyond my pay grade, honestly. I don't think AAV is the way to look at it. You have to look at full guarantees and front-loaded money. It seems Hurts's contract is team-friendly and backloaded.
Mahomes is not asking for more money. He's already come out and said he just doesn't need more in life than 500 million. I distinctly remember him talking about the team-friendly contract he took. Allen already got his extension and I doubt they'll revisit it. Whether Burrow and company do what Mahomes and Hurts did (take reasonably team-friendly deals) is up to Burrow and company. We've seen that Jackson won't.
But they -- Burrow and Herbert and Jackson -- are worth more than Hurts and you'll probably see that devil in the details.
Amused to Death
Footballguy
This is reasonable. However Hurts and Burrow were drafted in the same year (2020) and Burrow only has 8 more starts than Hurts. If you look at their career passing numbers, they favor Burrow but not by much. When you factor in the rushing numbers, it brings Hurts much closer to Burrow's overall effectiveness.
Burrow's the better QB for sure, but his passing numbers dropped in '22 from '21 while Hurts has improved each year.
rockaction
Footballguy
I don't think Hurts is the pocket passer that the other guys are. It's really that simple. I think he was aided by A.J. Brown and Devonta Smith and Dallas Goedert. Plus, any quarterback can function when they're not on their back.
I think he's a top twelve guy. I just don't think he's that great.
Terpman22
Footballguy
Do you think these guys were also aided by the WR's they were throwing to?
Burrow when he got Chase
Allen when he got Diggs
Lawrence when he go Kirk
Brady when he got Moss
Goff when he got Kupp
Stafford when he got Johnson
Stafford when he moved to LA and got Kupp
Tua when he got Waddle, then Hill
Cousins when he got Jefferson
Dak when he got Amari, then Lamb
Manning when he got Harrison, then Wayne
Rodgers with Davante, then without Davante
Montana to Rice lol
Marino and the Marks brother
Viking Cunningham with Moss and Carter
This whole "well he had good WR's" is like, a theme of NFL history. Other than Brady winning all his Super Bowls (and I think the theme here is he never had a defense ranked lower than 12 overall in any Super Bowl winning season) it seems to me, and history that QB's that perform at very high levels almost *always* have a really really good WR. But for whatever reason I only see the theme put on Hurts as if he is the only QB throwing to highly talented WR's and that is his only reason for success. It sure feels like success excuse making bordering on trolling.
rockaction
Footballguy
Considering Tua finished fourth on your PFF list (ahead of Hurts) and I ignored him totally in any discussion about Hurts that I was making, it would seem that yes, I discount him for having two electric receivers.
Yes, I would discount that. Randall was never the same without those guys, before and after.
Those receivers aren't on the same level as Brown and Smith.
I'm only comparing guys with two great all-world receivers. Montana and Taylor and Rice would be up there as well. I'd discount Joe, but at my own peril. I think Joe proved he was otherwordly with only Rice.
Terpman22
Footballguy
Ok so all of the QB's in history need to prove they can win without a good WR and if they have 2 good WR's this makes them look....worse?. Got it. What a strange way of thinking. As I showed in all the lists I linked compared to the one single one you did, outside of the one from JULY 2022 BEFORE Hurts had his awesome season, you and anyone else thinking this way are in the minority. Bad news for you is Smith and Brown are both 25 years old and younger along with Hurts. So while the Eagles will be good and going to the playoffs every year, I guess you can take solace in the face YOU THINK Hurts isn't good and is the product of some sort of all world system. And in the end if the team is winning games, it really doesn't matter.
rockaction
Footballguy
You think GMs aren't looking at that when they take guys in the draft or sign guys to contracts? I guarantee you they are.
And, no, I just said Joe had two and I wouldn't dock him for it. I think that answers your question.
Terpman22
Footballguy
Yeah it definitely tells me a lot thats for sure. Appreciate the back and forth!
eighsse2
Footballguy
What?
rockaction
Footballguy
Mmmm...I get what you're saying. Harrison is an all-time great, Wayne less so. When it all shakes out, Brown and Smith are going to go down as a better tandem. IMO.
Also, I think Manning makes Harrison and that Harrison isn't otherworldly without him. At all. He was an undersized guy who wasn't a burner. That was all guile. I think of Harrison like most think of Cooper Kupp nowadays, even if Harrison played the outside a bit.
eighsse2
Footballguy
Yeah. It can be difficult to parse out those chicken and egg situations. But with some QB's, like Manning, you know it wasn't just the WR's holding the QB up.
Amused to Death
Footballguy
FWIW, Smith broke the Eagles rookie record for receiving yards with Hurts in only his first year as a starter - before AJ joined the team.
Yenrub
Footballguy
As a Giants fan, it's that rookie season that gives me hope for DJ. He had a good rookie season then got "Joe Judge'd" for 2 seasons.
rockaction
Footballguy
Very difficult, and in retrospect (and you made me think about it) perhaps I was just too harsh on Harrison and Wayne. They were a super tandem.
Cooper and Lamb aren't on that level, though. I'll stand by that. Cooper was always fighting foot and ankle injuries in Dallas and Lamb is better used as a WR2. He's not as dominant as one might think. I mean, he's really good even though I've knocked him before, but he's not an alpha WR1 in the NFL like J Jefferson or J Chase.
And now that I think about it, Burrow has had the benefit of Higgins, Chase, and Boyd. One is hard-pressed to find a better trio of receivers (in their roles) than that. Higgins and Chase are easily on par with Brown and Smith. So that might knock my points down a bit.
Terpman22
Footballguy
Thats not the point I was making though. Not to compare "who had the best WRs or who had the best tandem" But to point out it takes 2 to tango. You aren't going to be a good QB with **** WRs. Unless your name is Donovan McNabb, and again, he was above average, choked in big games and didn't really take off statistically until *drumroll* the Eagles acquired TO, albeit for 1.25 seasons.
We both know Dak fell off a cliff in 2017 when the Eagles went on to win the Super Bowl and going into that season, a lot of Cowboys fans thought they had "that next dude" b/c Dak had a great season, albeit, having a 1600 yard back sure helps (loaded roster anyone?) but they found out quickly that he, like every other QB for the most part in history NEEDS a good WR or two. And once they got Cooper, he was resurrected back to being a good/top 12ish QB. Once he left, and Dak no longer had BOTH guys, guess what? He led the league in INT's. Now we can go down the road of why that happened/if the INTs are "his fault" etc, but the crux of my entire point is the fact he was now throwing to Noah Brown and relying on I guess a rookie in Jalen Tolbert to come in and take that production (spoiler alert he did not), we saw the results...another divisional round exit.
The overarching point I am making is basically "Why Jalen Hurts is the guy everyone points to to excuse his success b/c he has good WR's" When pretty much I think I have laid out my stance that a good QB needs a Good WR. He ain't doing it without at least 1 and no crap, having 2 on the same team is better than 1 and **naturally** you'd expect the QB to put up good statistics and lead your team to some level of success. This whole "Well I need to see him make Jalen Reagor great with a bottom 5 Offensive line and a tight end who sucks" is such a weird/bizarro world take that, to me is rooted in hate/envy/jealousy/bias, whatever you wanna call it.
rockaction
Footballguy
I never really said that. I said other guys were great while functioning without great O-lines or WRs. They get bumped up a bit for doing that. Hurts has the luxury of a great O-line that keeps him completely clean and two great WRs. I seriously think you're conflating my opinion with other people's opinions. I specifically didn't include guys with one good WR because I disagree with your premise. I think that certain guys are buoyed by two excellent receivers. Cooper and Lamb are okay. Harrison was HoF and Wayne was above-average. Not sure what you want me to say here or what your larger point is, and I'm trying to understand it.
Dr. Octopus
Footballguy
He's a borderline Hall of Famer. He's been a finalist the last three years.
Dr. Octopus
Footballguy
Harrison is one of the best route runners of all-time and ran a 4.3, so elite speed. Obviously Manning helped him achieve his ceiling but he would have been great with most QBs.
Synthesizer
Footballguy
It’s clear that rockaction prefers pocket passers over mobile quarterbacks. Heck he couldn’t even rank Hurts above Cousins or Rodgers. And he even took a shot at Randal Cunningham who finished runner-up in MVP voting twice before he played with those WRs in Minnesota.
Dr. Octopus
Footballguy
This take makes you look really bad as well. Jealousy
rockaction
Footballguy
Fair enough. He's in the HoF, so what am I to say? I'm wrong about his speed. My main point is that Peyton would have been great without them, so I don't ding Peyton for it.
I disagree about how good Wayne was. That I remember. I think Peyton made him, just like he helped make DT and Decker and Sanders. DT was awesome, but the other two were just very, very good receivers.
rockaction
Footballguy
Rodgers used to be more than mobile and I think Cousins is a wildly underrated QB. He's the butt of jokes, but he's good in my eyes. Like very, very good (away from primetime, that is).
eta* I do value pocket passing, but also have Jackson ahead of Hurts. Why? Jackson is actually a very good pocket passer by the numbers. So your thesis isn't totally wrong. I'm valuing in-pocket guys way more than what Hurts brings as a runner. Why? Because I think teams adjust at some point, unless you're Lamar three years ago or Mike Vick. Then they have trouble.
Terpman22
Footballguy
How so? Trust me its not **just here** where Cowboys fans come at me with the same sort of takes all the time. If you want to excuse a player, that happens to be very good in your own division b/c "well he plays on a great team" it seems like trolling/jealousy, especially Cowboys fans. I grew up with them, 2 cousins who happened to be Niners fans in the 80s and magically became Cowboys fans in the 90s. My brother, a follower not a leader, was also converted. My best friend in high school. Looking at my handle you could guess I'm from Maryland a far far away from Dallas Texas. And all these guys almost simultaneously texted me yesterday to some degree 'Wow you guys overpaid that running back" - the twitter guys all day long, now that they lost the "Zero Rings" jokes are sadly reduced to "1 ring in 60 years LULZ" I surely don't look as bad as anyone IMO who says "The only reason the QB is good is b/c his team is good" its just a weird take in my personal opinion. 2016 came, the Cowboys thought they had the division on lock, I even made a bet with a Cowboys fan from back home in March 2017 "we will finish ahead of ya'll" which he wanted to be $1000, but I said, lets be real make it $500. (I have entered into Djax tangent territory with this post I am aware). Guess what? We won the Super Bowl, duh, never got paid for the bet. We lose Wentz, he goes away, we are "left with Jalen" and I'm pretty sure a whole lot of people, probably including Rockaction here did not envision the leaps Hurts would make. And when he is successful its excused in a very weird way, either by "take away his rushing numbers" stats or like I said "He didn't make Jalen Reagor great" (which no one said, but that is the implication here, he can't win with average WRs) and my basic point is "no crap you need a good team to....be a good team, starting with a good QB" And even furthermore, yeah it is annoying when your team is very successful and its excused in a lot of ways, sometime contradictory ones like "well duh loaded roster" but also "well duh easiest schedule in NFL/sports history" and "well duh you only had to play Daniel Jones and Josh Johnson" but also "Duh when you are the 1-seed its structured in a way to let that....1 seed team play the worst teams. I will gladly take the "well this single take makes you look bad" when I'm responding to a guy that has to go back to a preseason ranking of QB's LAST YEAR to sort of bang his point home that the QB of the Eagles, Jalen Hurts "Ain't that great"This take makes you look really bad as well. Jealousy
Dr. Octopus
Footballguy
Jealous of what? Congrats you're a fan of a team - what an accomplishment!!!
You just seem a bit thin skinned and need to run in every time some one makes even a slightly negative comment about an Eagle.
Last edited:
