DenverBroncos
Footballguy
Joe Flacco Thread
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QB Joe Flacco, CLE (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter DenverBroncos
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PatrickT
Footballguy
Do the first half/second half splits and see if you still feel the same. I still don't think he's the QB Ryan is, but if not for Ryan, Flacco would've gotten the offensive ROY IMO.
He still might be the overall one, due to getting a playoff win, although I think that's more easily credited to the D than to Flacco.
He still might be the overall one, due to getting a playoff win, although I think that's more easily credited to the D than to Flacco.
Big 'N Tasty
Footballguy
Might want to take a look at Peyton Manning's rookie year's INT to TD ratio.Report back
doubletrouble
Footballguy
bicycle_seat_sniffer
Smells like chicken
If Peyton had the Ravens D, I dont think he'd lose a game
renesauz
IBL Representative
doubletrouble
Footballguy
talking about their rookie seasons...which team was better Peyton Ind or Joe's Balt???
Jeff Pasquino
Footballguy
Start with the regular season Miami game (actually the 2nd half of the Colts game, but the math might be easier if you start with Miami).
Jeff Pasquino
Footballguy
Most QBs pass the eyeball test with flying colors compared to Kyle Boller.That's like comparing most women to Amy Winehouse - over before it started.
DenverBroncos
Footballguy
Oh yeah and he also is one of the top QB to be sacked. Guy sucks!!! Boller revisited, you heard it here first. Please put that in your tag line.
Boller 2004 (first full season) 2500 yards, 13 TD, 11 INT's, sacked 35 times
Flacco 2008 (first full season) 2900 yards, 14 TD's, 12 INT's, sacked 32 times
Thanks in advance.
Boller 2004 (first full season) 2500 yards, 13 TD, 11 INT's, sacked 35 times
Flacco 2008 (first full season) 2900 yards, 14 TD's, 12 INT's, sacked 32 times
Thanks in advance.
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JuSt CuZ
Footballguy
I second that, not only that, did somebody actually tell us to go compare him to Peyton? Flacco is a rookie on a team that is winning strictly bcuz of the D and cuz they pound the ball with McClain. Personally if they had a better QB they might be using Rice or McGahee a little more! But with teams knowing they are gonna run a ton, they need to use the durable big back! Flacco hurts this team more then helps if you ask me, and here is why I think Tennessee wins this week. A Rookie QB against a Tennessee D that is at home in the Playoffs! Lets see if people praise this kid after his 3 TO performance!!!
Cecil Lammey
Footballguy
Everyone that listens to The Audible knows that I have been less than kind to Flacco. We first started talking about him when we were down at the Senior Bowl in Mobile, and compared to other QBs there like Chad Henne - he didn't stand out. Going back and watching film on Flacco, specifically the Delaware/App State Game you saw a QB with a big arm, but was rattled easily.I believe that has been Joe's greatest improvement, his composure. So credit to him for getting it done on the field, and credit to Cam Cameron for making him comfortable.
kremenull
Footballguy
For a rookie QB, this guy has done pretty well. But as some have said, looking beyond the stat line, Flacco appears to be headed on a path to at least a very good career. The guy makes all the throws, stands tough in the pocket and delivers accurate throws under pressure, and is pretty athletic for such a tall guy. I see a very promising future for the kid. I don't understand why you're knocking him at all.
Big 'N Tasty
Footballguy
For one, when did the PLAYOFFS get brought into the conversation? The original post said only Flacco sucks because he has almost as many INT as TD's and poor passer rating. That's all it said. So, why wouldn't you compare him to Manning's rookie year? Manning had almost as many INT as TD's, too, and he doesn't suck.
The whole "team" performance thing is crazy, point out anywhere in the first post or my post that states anything about how the team ended up.
After 5 games 1 TD and 7 picks. 847 yards. Rest of the way 13 and 5 for 2100 plus yards. Not to add in the factor of his mobility this year also in the equation as that was his only TD last week. Should we factor in the loss of Ogden also for the sacks. Not even close in the end. I love watching the kid play. He has great poise and has only progressed as the season has gone along. That arm is terrific also. Baltimore looks like they made a great move.
Chase Stuart
Footballguy
I think Flacco's been very overrated as well, but I think his future is bright. My biggest complaint is people seem to think "great for a rookie" and "below average NFL QB" can't be synonymous. That's what I think of Flacco right now.
Wildman
Footballguy
This will be something I'll be writing about in the summer, but I've found that a QB that completes at least 58% of his passes and has more scores than ints in his first full season, which is generally his second year (historically), goes on to have a pretty impressive career.
The recent roster of players includes: Drew Brees, Tom Brady, Jeff Garcia, Kurt Warner, Peyton Manning, Marc Bulger, and Brett Favre.
The dogs of the group were: Tim Couch and Jake Plummer. You could also put Chad Pennington and Culpepper somewhere in between.
What I noticed about Flacco at Delaware was similar to Cecil's comment. His mobility is pretty good for a big guy, but he had the tendency to make some risky throws when under pressure he wasn't able to simply roll away from. In hindsight, this could be symptomatic of a big-time player on a small school team instilled with the need to make a play when there doesn't appear to be one.
I didn't think Flacco would be this successful early. I think another year will be a better indicator of whether he'll be a decent starter or a potentially elite NFL signal caller. From a stats history, it appears he's on track to at least be the former.
The recent roster of players includes: Drew Brees, Tom Brady, Jeff Garcia, Kurt Warner, Peyton Manning, Marc Bulger, and Brett Favre.
The dogs of the group were: Tim Couch and Jake Plummer. You could also put Chad Pennington and Culpepper somewhere in between.
What I noticed about Flacco at Delaware was similar to Cecil's comment. His mobility is pretty good for a big guy, but he had the tendency to make some risky throws when under pressure he wasn't able to simply roll away from. In hindsight, this could be symptomatic of a big-time player on a small school team instilled with the need to make a play when there doesn't appear to be one.
I didn't think Flacco would be this successful early. I think another year will be a better indicator of whether he'll be a decent starter or a potentially elite NFL signal caller. From a stats history, it appears he's on track to at least be the former.
doubletrouble
Footballguy
Chase Stuart
Footballguy
It's worth noting that 2008 was the greatest season in QB efficiency ever, so you should keep that in mind.
Bankerguy
Footballguy
He's doing what's been asked of him by his coaches. I'm not sure that many are over rating him. Do you mean Fantasy or NFL wise.
Do you feel the same about Ryan because Flacco outperformed him for the last 11 games each they played. 13/5 to 12/8 from that point. One reason I think Flacco has every bit of a future as Ryan does.
treat88
Footballguy
I agree that you've got to watch the game to determine the talent.That said, and knowing I am in the minority, I largely agree with the original poster.Flacco has surprised me with his solid play to date. However, I think there is a large smoke and mirrors quality to him. Like I say, I understand I will take some heat for it and I get why people are optimistic, but I would not be surprised if he is next year's Derek Anderson.
SeniorVBDStudent
Footballguy
In case anyone has lost sight on the value of the Shark Pool, read this thread.
Great posting by all...
Great posting by all...
Judging a QB on his rookie year seems incredibly premature.
It's the hardest position to learn at the pro level, generally taking players several years to become successful.
So far, Flacco looks like he's going to be a very good NFL QB. Time will tell, but to condemn him for throwing a lot of picks in his first year seems ignorant.
It's the hardest position to learn at the pro level, generally taking players several years to become successful.
So far, Flacco looks like he's going to be a very good NFL QB. Time will tell, but to condemn him for throwing a lot of picks in his first year seems ignorant.
bcr8f
Footballguy
What did you think of Ben Roethlisberger his rookie year? I see both of them in a similar manner. Good defenses, not asked to do much but poised players. Hw he plays under pressure now may say a lot about him.He shows promise as a rookie. How he plays this week should shed more light on him. People like to predict the future but you can't do that yet.
mlball77
Footballguy
One thing that I like to consider with Flacco is that based on the level of competition he saw in college, his learning curve in the NFL was likely to be incredibly steep for his first season or two. I find myself shocked he has played so well right out of the gate, not benefiting from a year holding the clipboard. Honestly, I think he has the potential to continue to make big strides. While Ryan is, in my mind, the superior QB currently, I'm not so sure if that will be the case in a year or two. Flacco's upside is a bit of a wildcard, and has a real shot to be quite high, imho.
T Bell
Footballguy
If the paradigm you're using to evaluate him is that of a veteran QB, then I agree. He doesn't make enough plays. But he's a rookie, and one from a small school, so I'm having trouble seeing room for criticism. He obviously needs to develop more, but being off to such a strong start makes me optimistic that he will.
T Bell
Footballguy
How would you evaluate Drew Bledsoe, who had a pretty pronounced sophomore slump? Is he an exception to this system, or does he fall clearly in one or the other category?
treat88
Footballguy
In NFL terms I wholeheartedly agree. Far too early to make any kind of decision about Flacco's future.But for FF terms a little predicting is necessary. Even early on in his development.
Big 'N Tasty
Footballguy
Too early in the morning for me to get sarcasm I guess, sorry. Personally, I agree with you. He is a below average QB right now (not below average for a rookie, though), I was just arguing the point that TD to INT ratio in a QB's rookie year can't be used as the sole measurement of him sucking or not.ummm I was pretending to be Jim MoraManning team sucked when he was a rookie, Joe's does not. Faulk was Manning's leading receiver! Manning had 26 tds and was always playing from behind. Joe sucks and you know it! Another Trent Edwards all over again....
The_Man
Footballguy
Flacco is the real deal. His 90 QB rating on the road was #3 among ALL NFL QBs this year. In the second half of the Week 5 game at Indy, the Ravens were far behind and so Cameron took the training wheels off. Flacco responded with a strong effort and he's been very good ever since.
In the last 11 weeks of the season he had QB ratings that included: 120, 118, 109, 119, 115, 97 and 95, with 13 TDs and 5 INTs. Did o.k. vs. Oakland (82) and struggled vs. NYG, Pitt and Washington. Of course, those happen to be some of the best pass defenses in the NFL.
He has great poise, accuracy and arm strength. If anything, he is a little too hesitant to make some throws right now because he knows that turnovers are just about the only way the Ravens will lose. So he holds the ball too long and takes unnecessary sacks -- he should be a little quicker to throw the ball away. Also, he could do a better job of checking down to his RBs if the WRs are covered. He was getting better at that with Ray Rice before Rice missed the last 4 games -- will be interesting to see if the Ravens work Ricce back into the lineup this week (he was a healthy scratch vs. Miami).
Also, he doesn't throw enough passes down the middle -- again, I think this is a function of not wanting to turn the ball over. The only routes the Ravens WRs seem to run are 10-yard outs (which Flacco feasts on, thanks to arm strength and accuracy), followed by double moves where the WR fakes the 10-yard out and then runs a fly pattern down the field. I think there are significant chances to hit Heap on crossing routes, but Flacco hesitates to put the ball in where it might get picked.
In recent weeks, Flacco had really been connecting on the deep ball, but then he missed a few shots vs. Miami that were there for the taking. I think the shots will be there again this week -- if Flacco hits them, the Ravens win; if not, the Ravens lose and the starter of this thread looks good.
In the last 11 weeks of the season he had QB ratings that included: 120, 118, 109, 119, 115, 97 and 95, with 13 TDs and 5 INTs. Did o.k. vs. Oakland (82) and struggled vs. NYG, Pitt and Washington. Of course, those happen to be some of the best pass defenses in the NFL.
He has great poise, accuracy and arm strength. If anything, he is a little too hesitant to make some throws right now because he knows that turnovers are just about the only way the Ravens will lose. So he holds the ball too long and takes unnecessary sacks -- he should be a little quicker to throw the ball away. Also, he could do a better job of checking down to his RBs if the WRs are covered. He was getting better at that with Ray Rice before Rice missed the last 4 games -- will be interesting to see if the Ravens work Ricce back into the lineup this week (he was a healthy scratch vs. Miami).
Also, he doesn't throw enough passes down the middle -- again, I think this is a function of not wanting to turn the ball over. The only routes the Ravens WRs seem to run are 10-yard outs (which Flacco feasts on, thanks to arm strength and accuracy), followed by double moves where the WR fakes the 10-yard out and then runs a fly pattern down the field. I think there are significant chances to hit Heap on crossing routes, but Flacco hesitates to put the ball in where it might get picked.
In recent weeks, Flacco had really been connecting on the deep ball, but then he missed a few shots vs. Miami that were there for the taking. I think the shots will be there again this week -- if Flacco hits them, the Ravens win; if not, the Ravens lose and the starter of this thread looks good.
Brewzers
Footballguy
Thats not really a fair comparison. 2004 was Bollers 2nd season, he started 9 games in 2003. By the end of 2004 (with 25 starts), his career yards per attempt was a mere 5.6, 20 TDs, 20 Ints. In that case, the handwriting was on the wall. Flacco's stat line is much more impressive with a 6.9 YA and if you look at the splits you see marked improvement in the 2nd half of the season: - 1st half 6.5 YA, 5 TDs, 7 Ints - 2nd half 7.2 YA, 9 TDs, 5 IntsI think he's going to make it and be a solid top 10 QB in the NFL.
Also like to add that Ryan was almost annoited the starter from the get go for the NFL. Flacco was not even annoited the starter till week 1 basically. He fought with Boller and Troy Smith during training camp and was not even going to be the starter till Smith's tonsil issue. That is why I love the progression in the end. He was a very viable startiing starting for fantasy in the 2nd half of the season in my home league. Like 9th overall during last 10 games. Of course 16 team league.
Wildman
Footballguy
He started his first year. In his second year he had a 57.9 completion pct., 4555 passing yards, 25 scores, and 27 ints. He didn't fit the statistical profile I mentioned. He came close. BTW-these stats actually made him good enough to be in the Pro Bowl that year and most importantly lead the Pats to a 10-6 record and a playoff bid. His first season, he started 13 games had a 49.9 completion pct., and 15/15 TD/IntSo Bledsoe wouldn't qualify in this club...by a very small margin. He had a pretty good career as a starting QB, don't you think? He wasn't great but he had some really good years.
Phurfur
Footballguy
I guess you never saw him play!
The_Man
Footballguy
Hmmm. Bledsoe might be an interesting comparison to Flacco. They are similar in size, arm strength and demeanor. As someone who lived in New England during bledsoe's early years, and now lives in Baltimore, I might give Flacco an edge on decision-making -- you really had to see Bledsoe each week to appreciate his propensity for making poor decisions, and Flacco seems to be the opposite. Bledsoe would make throws that were too risky, Flacco will pass on throws that sometimes aren't too risky.
PatrickT
Footballguy
I agree with you, but I disagree with the bolded part. If the Ravens lose, it won't reflect badly on Flacco, IMO, even if he struggles.
In what area? Over the last 11 weeks (not counting the playoffs, just reg season), Ryan has:Same number of wins (9)
More completions (210, 195)
More attempts (329, 322)
Higher completion % (64%, 60%)
More yards per attempt (8.5, 7.5)
More TDs (14, 13)
Higher overall rating (94.8, 88.3 (This is actually an average of the ratings, not doing the whole complex formula))
The only down stat is that Ryan has 1 more pick. I'm not taking anything away from Flacco, but he's not the pure QB Ryan is at this point, and is still in the playoffs because of his defense. The Ravens are the better team, Ryan is the better QB at this moment.
treat88
Footballguy
Agreed.We won't know anymore about Flacco after this weekend (season) than we do now.
Chaka
Footballguy
This allegedly awesome Baltimore team Flacco is leading won 4 games last season.Cue the 2007 excuse mongers in 3...2...1...ummm I was pretending to be Jim MoraManning team sucked when he was a rookie, Joe's does not. Faulk was Manning's leading receiver! Manning had 26 tds and was always playing from behind. Joe sucks and you know it! Another Trent Edwards all over again....
Part of the reason that it's so hard to say whether Flacco's rookie year is a sign of bigger things to come is the outstanding job Cam Cameron has done putting together an offense that only asks Flacco to do what he can do at this point in his career. It seems like most of the time Flacco has two reads at most, which gives the offense the luxury of max protecting Flacco on most passing downs. His prodigious arm strength has translated well on the deep outs and long ball that seems to take forever to come down, and you have to give a ton of credit to Cameron for identifying what Flacco can do well at this early juncture and building the passing offense around those things. If there was a coordinator of the year award, Cameron would be my pick.
Flacco has also surprised me with his poise under pressure. He doesn't go fetal position like David Carr or crap your pants like Rex Grossman. He's made a few plays once the original play breaks down, and he's been very disciplined about throwing the ball away when there's no good options.
In short, Flacco has been an outstanding game manager. The Ravens D and power running game have allowed them to install a passing offense without many wrinkles, and because Flacco hasn't been asked to do more than he's capable of, his confidence and presence has grown as the season has gone on. He is definitely a better QB than he was the first time the Titans and Ravens played.
On the other hand, there's what we haven't seen Flacco do very much, which is make complex hair-trigger reads and operate under immediate pressure (among other things). Flacco has shown a tendency to lose his poise a bit under immediate pressure (who doesnt), and he's been making mainly binary or even single reads on his passing plays. This reminds me a lot of how Chucky made Chris Simms (another big armed, big frame QB) a halfway decent QB for a bit. Flacco also rarely hits WRs on the run. Mason is often running to a spot and stationary when Flacco hits him on those deep outs. I haven't seen Flacco make many throws where he has to throw before the WR has made his break, or make improvisional touch throws, or use that arm to cram the ball into small windows.
Flacco has shown growth over the course of the season, and he certainly hasn't been overwhelmed by the speed of the pro game. Like Big Ben, he fell into a perfect situation for a young QB to gain confidence, which is the foundation of a good career for any player. Chances are, Cameron won't sit on his laurels and allow the league to "catch up" to Flacco and this straightforward passing offense, and instead give the league a moving target by adding new layers of complexity, which bodes well for Flacco's future.
Flacco has also surprised me with his poise under pressure. He doesn't go fetal position like David Carr or crap your pants like Rex Grossman. He's made a few plays once the original play breaks down, and he's been very disciplined about throwing the ball away when there's no good options.
In short, Flacco has been an outstanding game manager. The Ravens D and power running game have allowed them to install a passing offense without many wrinkles, and because Flacco hasn't been asked to do more than he's capable of, his confidence and presence has grown as the season has gone on. He is definitely a better QB than he was the first time the Titans and Ravens played.
On the other hand, there's what we haven't seen Flacco do very much, which is make complex hair-trigger reads and operate under immediate pressure (among other things). Flacco has shown a tendency to lose his poise a bit under immediate pressure (who doesnt), and he's been making mainly binary or even single reads on his passing plays. This reminds me a lot of how Chucky made Chris Simms (another big armed, big frame QB) a halfway decent QB for a bit. Flacco also rarely hits WRs on the run. Mason is often running to a spot and stationary when Flacco hits him on those deep outs. I haven't seen Flacco make many throws where he has to throw before the WR has made his break, or make improvisional touch throws, or use that arm to cram the ball into small windows.
Flacco has shown growth over the course of the season, and he certainly hasn't been overwhelmed by the speed of the pro game. Like Big Ben, he fell into a perfect situation for a young QB to gain confidence, which is the foundation of a good career for any player. Chances are, Cameron won't sit on his laurels and allow the league to "catch up" to Flacco and this straightforward passing offense, and instead give the league a moving target by adding new layers of complexity, which bodes well for Flacco's future.
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eaglegreen5
Footballguy
The starter of this post is obviously a hater. (I am guessing a Miami Dolphins fan...lol) No one is saying that he is going to be either any of the 3 Mannings, but he is getting the job done like Big Ben did in his rookie year. The bottom line is that only time will tell, but I would say, "so far so good" about his rookie year. I am not even a Ravens fan, but watching them beat Dallas at the final home game of Texas Stadium was priceless. That was great Thursday night football watching all of the Dallas fans boo hoo 
(I do give JJ and the Cowboy brass thumbs up for cutting Pacman.)
(I do give JJ and the Cowboy brass thumbs up for cutting Pacman.)doubletrouble
Footballguy
were not talking about last year....for that look what Chad P did with the dolphins then..LMAOyou like apples?This allegedly awesome Baltimore team Flacco is leading won 4 games last season.ummm I was pretending to be Jim MoraManning team sucked when he was a rookie, Joe's does not. Faulk was Manning's leading receiver! Manning had 26 tds and was always playing from behind. Joe sucks and you know it! Another Trent Edwards all over again....
Cue the 2007 excuse mongers in 3...2...1...
how you like them apples!
Frenchy Fuqua
Footballguy
Boy as a Steelers fan I'd like to find fault with Flacco but the kid has been very impressive this year in my opinion. He's mobile, accurate and has a great arm. Seems like he has plenty of poise too, I keep expecting him to cost the Ravens a game by hitting the rookie wall and he hasn't. The one thing I would like to see is how he responds when he's down late in a big game and needs to make some big throws.
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North
Footballguy
You obviosly don't like Flacco, but lets take a look at his season as the ROOKIE QB for the Ravens.It was obvious to anyone who watched Raven games this year that Harbaugh has kept Flacco on a leash, especially the first six weeks. After the blow out against Indy Harbaugh opened things up for him and since week 6 he has done exactly what the Ravens have asked, don't lose games.Since week 6 he has 13tds and 5 ints and 200 ypg along with 3 rushing tds. His QB rating since week 6 is 91.2, which isn't that bad for a rookie and would place him in the top 10 in QB rating.Not bad for a guy they said might not be able to make the transition from division IAA to the NFL.
Man In The Box
Footballguy
This HAS to be fishing.
