greenmountaingoat
Footballguy
We talkin bout practice?
(Actually I’m quite nervous)
(Actually I’m quite nervous)
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QB Justin Fields, NYJ (3 Viewers)
- Thread starter Faust
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Hot Sauce Guy
Footballguy
Settle down there, AI.
rockaction
Footballguy
This guy was always going to be a disaster in the pros
Ministry of Pain
Footballguy
2,200 yds passing 17 TD
1,150 yds rushing, 8 TD
2022 when he made 15 starts
150+ yds passing, 50-75+ yds rush, 2 TDs, that's what investors are looking for here
He rushed one in early first preseason game, there is some upside as a QB2 option later in the Draft, bye week fill in is all most are looking for, maybe some soft match ups.
Ghost Rider
Footballguy
That's cute.
Leaving aside that Fields cannot read a defense quickly to save his life, as opposed to Warner, who was great at it and had a quick release, 1st round QB is never an underground story.
I feel bad for Jets fans. They had hope with Rodgers, and that didn't go well for a variety of reasons, and now they are saddled with a YouTube QB.
Have not heard that anywhere, can you provide a link or tell me a source?
What I heard Glenn say was that he wants to use Breece a lot in the passing game, which is not the same thing as you are saying.
Reading pre-season tea leaves is an inexact science and it could be they are seeing how each back fits into that role but two preseason games in so far the one RB they've not used in that role out of their top 3 is Hall.
rockaction
Footballguy
I’m talking as a Jets fan so I’m not sure what your post is addressing.
FarFromHome
Footballguy
Fields has all the tools in his talent toolbox to be good. The problem is that when you watch Fields, it's like he is processing at max ability and it just isn't fast enough to be successful. I was thinking maybe he was over coached in Chicago and it just really hampered him. Then I thought maybe the Tomlin training wheels were just to much. Always felt like if he could just take the training wheels off and go back to playing backyard football he would find success. Maybe not though. Like Bryce Young felt last year, the the pressure is gonna increase, but he is gonna get a chance to show out. It's on him now. Imo
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rockaction
Footballguy
He had that problem at tOSU and a bunch of evaluators pointed it out and they began to get flamed as racist by their media brethren. No lie. Doug Farrar especially did that. So it got complicated and still is. He doesn’t see it. No recognition. Doesn’t have to get clouded that way, but it did.
Hot Sauce Guy
Footballguy
That’s been 100% my read so far.
Hot Sauce Guy
Footballguy
He also has a bad habit of fumbling when he gets sacked. I haven’t seen much of him this preseason, but I’ve seen chatter that it’s been an issue in practice.
Last year with the Steelers he had a very fortunate set of bounces, so many of his fumbles weren’t turnovers.
rockaction
Footballguy
Not a good QB. The Jets are gonna stink, and they delayed their QB search another year.
I absolutely could not believe so many of my fellow Steeler fans were lamenting not resigning Fields instead of celebrating the fact someone gave him a big enough contract to net them a third round comp pick.
Steelers won that de facto trade. Big, when taking in whole context of salary and draft capital earned.
FarFromHome
Footballguy
Wow. Didn't know they got a 3rd for him. I'm not saying he is gonna be good or continue to struggle, but at this point I'd take 3rd for him all day.
Just to clarift they got nothing directly from the Jets and it's not official yet but multiple sites and people who predict these things accurately believe they will be awarded a 3rd round comp pick for Fields.....and a 6th for Wilson.
Agreed but they really had no other viable options, guessing they're approaching this year as a throwaway year and hopefully will end up with a high pick in next year's draft.
rockaction
Footballguy
Very true
Harjiran
Footballguy
A couple years ago, I was offered James Cook and Matthew Stafford for Justin Fields mid-season, and I almost knocked my keyboard over smashing accept. Fields has depreciated quite a bit since then, but he really had people believing in him initially (myself included). Such a great athlete but he just doesn't seem to have "it" as an NFL QB.
Ministry of Pain
Footballguy
FF, my apologies, I agree in terms of wins and losses, don't see the Jets pushing for Playoffs this year but stranger things have happened.
I just meant FF
rockaction
Footballguy
Only thing I can say about that is him keeping the job is not a total certainty. Otherwise he is good in a four-point pass TD league.
Hot Sauce Guy
Footballguy
On a FF forum?! Shame on you. Oh, wait - no, you’re doing fine.
Every run and throw against the giants last night
Months ago, I posted that Martinez had a shot- a slim one- but he's one of my favorite long shots.
Martinez going from UFL to NFL and trying to give context of such a big longshot, I compared him to Warner and NFLE.
It wasn't Fields as Warner.
This is a Justin Fields thread and as Martinez has done well and Fields struggled, I've been posting here mentioning both.
Sorry for the confusion. Maybe Kitna or Delhimme? I think it would be so interesting if a UFL guy can start in season
He still has his fans.
They see his struggles and say he'll iron it out.
There's definitely been a constant two point of views since he joined the Jets.
It's somewhat typical of a young player making the same mistakes in year four or five. Some have lost hope, some still have it
rockaction
Footballguy
Hot Sauce Guy
Footballguy
I’ve seen him play at a high level.
I’m neither a fan nor apologist, nor am I a hater of fields. I roster zero shares after trading him away in 2 leagues.
All that said, I do think he is capable of better play. I’ve seen him play better. It’s in there. He needs a KOC type to bring it out. I’m not sure he has that in NY.
dkp993
Footballguy
I think we’ve found the issue.
Listening to Fields on the radio earlier and he did what he always does and I just don't like. He says they're good, they played well, he played well etc and ...no you didn't. Say so. Own your mistakes!
I have long wondered if this mindset is why I often don't think he's improved
I have long wondered if this mindset is why I often don't think he's improved
barackdhouse
Footballguy
This drum beat sucks.
there are definitely two different situations at play. NFL vs FF. I don't think Fields as an NFL QB is going to take a team anywhere. But I do think he is a viable starting FF QB as long as he is starting in the NFL. I think he is a top 10 FF QB for as long as he starts.
Last night I was in a 10 team standard league set up draft. I was the last guy to take a QB (three teams even took two QB's before I had one). I paired Fields with Goff late and plan to start Fields as long as he is starting (and putting up FF points as I expect he will). If not I can fall back on Goff. I think this is a viable approach for this year in FF.
Last night I was in a 10 team standard league set up draft. I was the last guy to take a QB (three teams even took two QB's before I had one). I paired Fields with Goff late and plan to start Fields as long as he is starting (and putting up FF points as I expect he will). If not I can fall back on Goff. I think this is a viable approach for this year in FF.
Terpman22
Footballguy
I'm with this. I think he might fumble a lot and miss a lot of easy throws and piss people off on his team (yeah you Wilson) but at the same time will be a pretty good FF QB for as long as he is out there bc eventually he is going to just say "f it" on a bunch of plays/games bc of how superior of an athlete he is and those rushing stats/TDs are going to be fun.
Mason Taylor to the moon maybe this year as a rookie as a dark horse top 5 TE if he starts 15+ games?
Figuring out the targets and shares for Wilson/Taylor/Breece is going to be tough
Ministry of Pain
Footballguy
The Jets have had such poor QB play and then the Rodgers debacle, there really isn't that much pressure on him, Jets are not being hyped as a Playoff team
I think he enters a very good situation with good skill players at RB and a strong WR1 he can throw to
he might surprise in FF but lose a lot fo games for the Jets who really want to go 5-12 and get a new QB next year, just my opinion the way they put the team together this year
Head Coach will have a little bit of leeway his first couple seasons, the QB position at some point needs a permanent fix, Fields is probably not that
I think he enters a very good situation with good skill players at RB and a strong WR1 he can throw to
he might surprise in FF but lose a lot fo games for the Jets who really want to go 5-12 and get a new QB next year, just my opinion the way they put the team together this year
Head Coach will have a little bit of leeway his first couple seasons, the QB position at some point needs a permanent fix, Fields is probably not that
LawFitz
Footballguy
Seems odd to me the dichotomy between FF consensus casting off Fields as a passer this year, but still placing Wilson as a low-end WR1 or at worst, high-end WR2. My brain is struggling to jive, except under the most extreme of probabilities. My thought is either Fields is under- or Wilson is overrated heading into drafts, even now, based on ADP.
Agree
"For as long as he starts" is my point of contention for FF.
Aiyuk (or whoever) falls this many rounds because we know he's a part season player.
A lot of rankings are fair but some aren't with Fields and I've seen him go early-ish in drafts.
You can love him for FF of course and think he's going to stockpile points for so many weeks but you're out of your mind if you draft him in 6,7th when plenty of full season QBs are available.
I like Dak. Idk about the Steelers whiner but Dak's got the history and targets and is a pretty safe bet. I can't believe how often Fields goes before Dak.
(I think Ward and Penix last pick are wonderful)
It matters too what pick you use to backup Fields.
Oh so often I think many FF people are just "off" with the whole totality of the concept.
I get what your are saying but QB is different than RB or WR with respect to your point. You can find replacement level QB's fairly easy in most 1 QB leagues so if Fields gets yanked from the starting QB spot you have a lot of options to replace a baseline of those points. That lowers the risk of him not playing a full season. Harder to do at RB and WR mid season.
That being said, I try and target Fields after about the top 10-12 QB's are off the board. I took him as QB13 in my draft last night at the end of the 11th round. I think that leaves a lot of room for profit even if he doesn't start the entire season.
I think Wilson could set the NFL record for target share. Like 40% is very much on the table in my opinion. So, assuming Fields attempts about 28 passes per game (about his average) I think 11 of them could go to Wilson. I think 180-ish targets are not unreasonable for Wilson, so even if the TD's are low, and the yards aren't as high you'd hope, the catches will add up. Something 110-1200-6 seems fair to me, which is on the WR 1/2 borderline for me.
Now, for Fields, figure in roughly 50 rush yards per game, and likely close to a rush TD every other week, and I see it being hard for him to not be a top-10 QB most weeks.
You've got a plan. Value is in the thought process.
All good.
Its the people that make me
that I just wonder about in drafts
Instinctive
Footballguy
My first pass:
459 PA
3167 yards, 16 TDs, 14 INTs
170 rushes for 952 yards and 8 TDs
459 PA
3167 yards, 16 TDs, 14 INTs
170 rushes for 952 yards and 8 TDs
I drafted a lot of Wilson early this year and lately have been backing off.
He's not getting many catches with either CB covering him in practice and he has zero in preseason.
The Jets have great corners and that's like three targets in preseason so there needs to be some context applied.
He's gonna have to battle some weeks and Fields is going to have no choice but to place it well each time.
I don't know. I just went from super confident to backing off
barackdhouse
Footballguy
I think the most polite way to say it is he's in a slump. And it does happen to young QBs. It happens to shooters in the NBA, it happens to batters in MLB, it happens to golfers, etc.
But those other examples and more are ones where the conventional wisdom is "just keep shooting just keep swinging this is part of the process" but in the NFL, while that is actually still true... coaches and GMs don't have patience for QBs in slumps.
So yeah he's gonna have a real short leash I should think. And he needs to get over this slump. Maybe he needs to travel the world for a week and a half and clear his head. Lol. IDK just feels like he's getting overwhelmed and is about to implode his way out of the league. Sure hope I'm wrong.
Thing about slumps is all it takes is that right pitch and that right crack of the bat, hitting a jumper while getting fouled, hitting a strike to a TE up the seam on 3rd and long when you call the right protection and he decimates a safety into the turf on his way to a 50 yard TD and the crowd explodes. IDK but Fields is streaky and can get hot. Consistency has been the issue of course but I'm not gonna lie those (very) few snaps in the week 2 game looked poor. Politest word I can find.
They're at home and play Pittsburgh in week 1 so the Rodgers return to the place where he had so much glory should be interesting. Hard to believe a Mike Tomlin Steelers defense is going to be the one that Fields gets out of his slump with. (But it would be huge if he did)
Week 2 home against Buffalo well all I can say is they're gonna need to put up points so that is a good thing for fantasy and for Fields chances to take a step because he should have plenty of opportunities. And by the way the Bills defense does NOT look good. Even though it should on paper.
Week 3 on the road in Tampa. Again probably have to put up points. Mid to late September in Florida could be it's own thing. I should think by this point the leash has either been let go or he is really about to be tested hard. This game could be the one that ends it.
Week 4 if he is still starting is at Miami so again Florida technically in fall not summer but you never know. And I have no idea whatsoever of what to make of the Dolphins but it's a division game and I think week 2 is a sneaky trap game for the Bills who will not have an easy time at home against the visiting Ravens in week 1 and could go into week 3 at 0-2.
Next 3 games DAL, DEN then CAR at home then at Cincy then they're on bye. If Fields makes it thru week 3 then he makes it to the bye. I'm looking at them being 3-5 even if Fields plays really good. But their final stretch is one they could make a run.
And if he plays poorly they're gonna be 1-7 and it's gonna be ugly on the airwaves. So anyway here is me rooting he gets his pitch. FFS.
But those other examples and more are ones where the conventional wisdom is "just keep shooting just keep swinging this is part of the process" but in the NFL, while that is actually still true... coaches and GMs don't have patience for QBs in slumps.
So yeah he's gonna have a real short leash I should think. And he needs to get over this slump. Maybe he needs to travel the world for a week and a half and clear his head. Lol. IDK just feels like he's getting overwhelmed and is about to implode his way out of the league. Sure hope I'm wrong.
Thing about slumps is all it takes is that right pitch and that right crack of the bat, hitting a jumper while getting fouled, hitting a strike to a TE up the seam on 3rd and long when you call the right protection and he decimates a safety into the turf on his way to a 50 yard TD and the crowd explodes. IDK but Fields is streaky and can get hot. Consistency has been the issue of course but I'm not gonna lie those (very) few snaps in the week 2 game looked poor. Politest word I can find.
They're at home and play Pittsburgh in week 1 so the Rodgers return to the place where he had so much glory should be interesting. Hard to believe a Mike Tomlin Steelers defense is going to be the one that Fields gets out of his slump with. (But it would be huge if he did)
Week 2 home against Buffalo well all I can say is they're gonna need to put up points so that is a good thing for fantasy and for Fields chances to take a step because he should have plenty of opportunities. And by the way the Bills defense does NOT look good. Even though it should on paper.
Week 3 on the road in Tampa. Again probably have to put up points. Mid to late September in Florida could be it's own thing. I should think by this point the leash has either been let go or he is really about to be tested hard. This game could be the one that ends it.
Week 4 if he is still starting is at Miami so again Florida technically in fall not summer but you never know. And I have no idea whatsoever of what to make of the Dolphins but it's a division game and I think week 2 is a sneaky trap game for the Bills who will not have an easy time at home against the visiting Ravens in week 1 and could go into week 3 at 0-2.
Next 3 games DAL, DEN then CAR at home then at Cincy then they're on bye. If Fields makes it thru week 3 then he makes it to the bye. I'm looking at them being 3-5 even if Fields plays really good. But their final stretch is one they could make a run.
And if he plays poorly they're gonna be 1-7 and it's gonna be ugly on the airwaves. So anyway here is me rooting he gets his pitch. FFS.
But why? Who is the alternative? Tyrod Taylor? So how does that really help them? My guess is they don't mind having a bad season and position themselves draft wise for QB of the future.
zamboni
Footballguy
I was at Jets training camp yesterday. I’m hardly a scout, but from the novice eye, he definitely didn’t look sharp
I don’t think any coach or team brass thinks this way, especially for a franchise that is trying to wipe away all the grime.
Gatorade
Footballguy
A slump is when you are missing your targets, not when you can't read the defense fast enough to make your throw.
zamboni
Footballguy
He was missing targets on easy drills yesterday.
Ministry of Pain
Footballguy
Took him as a QB2 behind Murray and also took CJS late to make a trio I didn't invest heavily in, will be happy if anyone of the 3 become a weekly starter
Otherwise I gotta play match ups every week
Arizona opens at the Saints
Jets host Steelers
Texans at Rams
Likely gonna start Murray Week 1 and go from there
Former Titans, Lions, and now Patriots DC always always always said in a coach-y manner "you get something out of it" sometimes and "if not then you find a way to get something out of it."
I
that mindset when it's said with persistence and determination.Ya develop Cook and Martinez and see if you don't have a backup QB for a long time. You call a game to your strengths and run it 50 times. 8 in the box, maybe that makes the QBs job easier now. Maybe the WRs learned to block well and TEs needed to be better blocking down field.
What do my Titans have out of drafting Levis and Willis?
Ridley who is oldish and two LTs that wound up a RT and LG.
Glenn has his own phrasing of that but I've heard him say things like what did we accomplish and get work done. I bet he's of the same mindset
