irish eyes
Footballguy
Couldn't agree more. So glad my #1 dynasty pick MHJ went to that horrible team.
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QB Kyler Murray, ARZ (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter Bracie Smathers
- Start date
Sunday Gravy
Footballguy
Can he see the outside of the field from the pocket? I'm not so sure....
BlackCrowes
Footballguy
He’s just not good
Down Under
Footballguy
Probably a bottom five QB worker on and off the field.
BlackCrowes
Footballguy
Bad throw. He’s always an inch away.
efactor
Footballguy
Me too. It's just too painful to watch. Zero enjoyment
Yeah his attitude stinks, body language stinks.
Not a good NFL QB but paid like an elite guy.
Ridiculous
TheDirtyWord
Footballguy
As someone who targeted him last year, my final assessment of his 2024 was that he was 'fine'. Couple of things.
1. I abhor Petzing. Many times watching thew ARI offense last year, I thought they should have drafted Alt. I wouldn't be surprised that if in Warren Sharp's preview this year, he hadn't diagnosed Petzing with a severe case of BobbySlowikitis.
2. At the same time, Murray has seemingly become overconscious of complaints about his 'pocket presence' and ability to beat teams from there. Some games, it felt simply as if he was refusing to run. Finishing 8th amongst QB's in rushing attempts, and but 9 more than Justin Herbert...seems a waste.
3. At the same time, Murray is a guy you draft for his floor as much as his ceiling and in that respect he came through, my leagues scoring = QB10, and he was fairly consistent.
1. I abhor Petzing. Many times watching thew ARI offense last year, I thought they should have drafted Alt. I wouldn't be surprised that if in Warren Sharp's preview this year, he hadn't diagnosed Petzing with a severe case of BobbySlowikitis.
2. At the same time, Murray has seemingly become overconscious of complaints about his 'pocket presence' and ability to beat teams from there. Some games, it felt simply as if he was refusing to run. Finishing 8th amongst QB's in rushing attempts, and but 9 more than Justin Herbert...seems a waste.
3. At the same time, Murray is a guy you draft for his floor as much as his ceiling and in that respect he came through, my leagues scoring = QB10, and he was fairly consistent.
Sure he was 10th but you would have been just as good with Purdy, Rodgers or Geno Smith (last two usually go undrafted)
There's some quotes on X where he told a coach 'he wasn't feeling the run" today.
I've watched playing for a bad team beat down his competitiveness.
There have been tons of reports of retired veterans saying they avoided hits and such when they played for a bad team. "Business decision" and that stuff.
Sweetness was one of the first to discuss and Barry too. Sometimes fighting for one extra yard is just not wise.
I find myself a hypocrite and if some legend said I say "that was smart" but if some lesser player does, then I critique his commitment.
Murray is small and he quickly changed Arizona to a team that might win every game and then the Cardinals...reverted to being the Cardinals. Murray got hurt pretty bad and ....I think he's just wise now.
What do you think?
TheDirtyWord
Footballguy
I can't speak to the comment about 'not feeling the run'
However, this time last year...Kliff Kingsbury was widely seen as a failed HC with a gimmicky offense. 12 months later, he's seen as the (or one of the) architect(s) for Jayden Daniels superb rookie year.
His 2nd/3rd seasons, he averaged (15 games as he played 30):
358/520 3879 25/11
111/621/8
Not for nothing, but Daniels just put up 331/480 3568 25/9 & 148/891/6.
So total yardage/TD output:
Murray - 4500/33
Daniels - 4459/31
...and Daniels played 16+ games to Murray's 15/season.
What it comes down to for me is that I sense this 'we've got to fix Murray' dynamic that has emerged and they've saddled him with a coaching staff that while he buys into them, in some ways...I think the public criticism of his regression has affected him in terms of how he sees his own game. I'm not sure we'll see him revert back (consistently) to the guy who I thought was just as effective as Daniels early =in his career.
I've always enjoyed him.
I don't follow him as closely as I did for many years.
He was the perfect guy to follow Baker. He's brutally honest.
Predraft, I had to point that out over n over. We're so conditioned to typical answers that someone just being purely open n honest seemed odd.
Reporters always seem to want to run with some OMG story about something he said but it quickly shuts down for this very same reason. It's really interesting to me.
He's a fiery competitor. He gets excited and angry and the camera is on the QB so much, we have a good idea what he's feeling during a game.
Ever since his injury he's different to me- as I mentioned above.
I need someone that watches him all the time to tell me what happens on the plays he supposedly quits on.
The best I got on X was a time he didn't take on two big DL to run for a first and that he ran out of bounds instead of forward when a few defenders were about to hit him.
Those sound like Sweetness and Barry wisdom- living to play another play. Cardinals fans are unhappy but they won't tell me the score either once I showed my side of the debate. If they're down 30-10 AND that was the scenario I'm even more understanding of his decision.
I can talk a long long time about how I couldn't play for some owners at different times; owners that are quite pleased with a full stadium and a playoff berth. I'm made for best effort by everyone and chasing a ring. If the GM won't get that one player or the one player won't play thru injury or ...Sometimes when these owners speak, ooh it bugs me.
Monti is an intellectual. I would say he's as good as anyone ever to be an assistant GM. Idk about as the actual GM. He sees the forest for the trees so so well though.
When he oh so obviously started playing the long game in Arizona, it was reported that he wasn't re-signing most everyone and they had some absurd number like only 10 players under contract for next year and then only 18 and on and on.
They were not good. Why keep them? Why overpay them? It is smart but who is gonna play?
What is that like for the guys that did stick around? We're conditioned to see all these players cut in August and talk of turnover and dead cap then. That this guy doesn't want to waste time and have all this dead cap is totally reasonable BUT what is that like for the players that did stay? What's the morale during the off-season? I'm sure it's full of hope once camp starts and all that as expected.
Like Murray being so brutally honest, Monti kind of is in his way and it's also understandable yet odd.
How many new players are on their 90 this summer? I'd guess 60.
Playing for the Cards means losing and no one nationally cares about ya. Monti did that too- although the geography and history aren't deniable- with his massive turnover.
His plan should finally be showing some real progress this year. Maybe next year they're a force and a playoff team. (Maybe not and he gets fired)
I want to see Murray when they're more competitive. He's been on predictable four win and .500 teams. He's going to have a better team this year and ..let's see. I still think he's got tremendous "don't count me out" ability and want to see him when they're not predictable.
Second reply but-
Kingsbury is doing what I've long argued. Why is it so certain that a college offense won't work in the NFL? That's too confident it can't be true.
His adjusted NFL offense is still a ton of short passes to set up a bomb that (much like Spurrier) he totally relies on the deep WRs to win a jump ball. Kingsbury has dramatically improved on the other facets of game calling and scripting but those are still his base.
25 percent of throws behind the line of scrimmage for Jayden and depending on how the defense runs towards the screens, it sets up some very simple run decisions and it stops them from running towards Jayden too. It's peewee or playground like but it works and works well.
At least, 30(how many runs) percent of plays, the QB is very comfortable and in his groove ad-libbing n all. I think that matters.
Murray and Jayden did not look panicky like so many young QBs do. I think that's a huge deal.
Coach insists on the deep throws even when they're covered- well he may not be getting flack for chucking it then also.
The criss cross or pick plays, I like em. They seem easy and fun and almost elementary like a pick n roll in hoops.
How much of this stuff really needs to be coached up too?
The rest of the offense, sure, but Kingsbury has a good amount of simple and fun plays that make QBs comfy and kudos to him for seeing the extremely high value in that.
I watch so many games that I'd swear I would pull the QB after two series- guy you're panicking and it feels like impending doom, you're out. It's so pathetic how normal it is to see a panicky bad QB nowadays.
pinkstapler
Footballguy
Personally, just my opinion, but I think Murray has always kept his baseball mentality rather than adopt a football one and it accounts for much of what we see. He's not much of a leader, nor is he much of a "team" oriented guy. If anything, he seems to just see himself as one part of the team, then establishing himself as a franchise QB head of that team. He seems to just want to focus on himself and his game. He approaches things with a lack of urgency like the season is 100+ games rather than 17. He seems content putting in the effort and work that's asked of him, but doesn't do much more than that. He's not grinding film at 10pm, not one of those "first to arrive, last to leave" guys. I don't recall him ever taking much ownership or responsibility over team performance.
People can defend him and all those points I just made till they are blue in the face, and that's fine. But those are all things which truly great QBs do. Doesn't mean Murray couldn't still be great taking another path, but it's not something we've really seen before. Plenty of QBs go through stints with bad teams, bad coaching staffs, etc. The greats rise above, or at least try to be a leader and role model. Murray hasn't. He seems complacent to just show up for work and collect his paycheck. Again, that's fine. 90% of working people do just that. But it's not going to be winning over the hearts and minds of his team or the fans; and as of now it's not finding that team much success either.
I agree with everything you said here and that’s the main reason I traded him away in dynasty a couple years ago.
That, and he takes some of the most bone-headed sacks I’ve ever seen an NFL quarterback take.
pinkstapler
Footballguy
Yeah I've taken a run with him here and there in redraft when the value seems good. But not a QB I ever wanted in dynasty. I think mentals/intangibles matter more for that position than any other, and he's never come off as having most of those to me; work ethic, locker room guy, coach on the field, leader/role model. I understand Arizona's position extending him to that massive contract; he's by no means a bad QB, and they'd have a real hard time finding a new starter that comes even close to his talent. But man... I wouldn't really love it as a fan either. Sometimes I think having no QB is better than backing up the Brinks truck for a guy you don't really believe can get you a SB (because that's what it's really about right?). The last year quote of him saying "it's not my job to get MHJ the ball" just left me not wanting to draft most skill players on this team.
TheDirtyWord
Footballguy
Funny you mention that quote, because I thought the same thing at the time. To be fair, I think MHJ underwhelmed due to a combination of his own transition as well as Petzing, but
I think there comes a time in a QB's development where they kind of understand and operate as if the OC is under them, not vice versa if you think about the relationship hierarchically.
That has not happened in ARI...and now entering Year 7, that feels 'late' for such a mindset to take shape although we'll see.
FarFromHome
Footballguy
Always been a Murray fan for some reason. Have been an even bigger fan of him as a fantasy QB. Was kinda surprised to see he is about to start his 7th season. Never had a 4000 yard passing season. 26 is his passing td high and it was 5 seasons ago. Last season was his 2nd highest rushing season at 33 yards a game. I keep waiting for him to bust out into that next tier of qbs, but is this what he is? Just a decent, not great QB? Would love to see him open it up downfield a little more. Having said all that, I'll prolly end up drafting this guy. Again. Maybe year 7 is the year. Ha ha
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I always say what y'all are saying. I don't wholly disagree.
I'm googling and see 12 players under contract in 2024(for 23? For 24?) and also see 40 free agents which would mean 13 under contract plus IR.
I'm just saying I can't imagine that-
Hello you few remaining, all your teammates are gone. Have a nice off-season.
They seem better now. Monti has made a lot of moves and been patient and careful not to overspend just because some player was "best available."
I'm hopeful this year brings the spark Murray needs
I'm googling and see 12 players under contract in 2024(for 23? For 24?) and also see 40 free agents which would mean 13 under contract plus IR.
I'm just saying I can't imagine that-
Hello you few remaining, all your teammates are gone. Have a nice off-season.
They seem better now. Monti has made a lot of moves and been patient and careful not to overspend just because some player was "best available."
I'm hopeful this year brings the spark Murray needs
