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QB Russell Wilson, NYG (2 Viewers)

Stoneworker said:
It's not a crazy thought that Sean Payton improving the Saints' record from 3-13 to 10-6 in his very first year had more to do with an entire 53-man team being well-coached than just having Drew Brees at QB.

It's not a crazy thought that even Patrick Mahomes would have had his worst year as a professional last year if coached by a fired rookie hack that had to hire a "game management" consultant after his first two games.
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I agree.

Both scenarios are within the range of outcomes.

Maybe Payton is a HOF coach. I really don't know. Maybe he had Brees and Michael Thomas for years, basically Stockton and Malone running the pick'n roll for a few years. Maybe he should have won a LOT more with Brees. Maybe he spent money like a coked up arms dealer, he and Loomis saddling the team with crippling cap issues, and ditched when the going got rough.

it's all possible. A successful coach going somewhere else does not work out A LOT. Raising the possibility doesn't seem out of line.
 
massraider said:
Stoneworker said:
It's not a crazy thought that Sean Payton improving the Saints' record from 3-13 to 10-6 in his very first year had more to do with an entire 53-man team being well-coached than just having Drew Brees at QB.

It's not a crazy thought that even Patrick Mahomes would have had his worst year as a professional last year if coached by a fired rookie hack that had to hire a "game management" consultant after his first two games.
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I agree.

Both scenarios are within the range of outcomes.

Maybe Payton is a HOF coach. I really don't know. Maybe he had Brees and Michael Thomas for years, basically Stockton and Malone running the pick'n roll for a few years. Maybe he should have won a LOT more with Brees. Maybe he spent money like a coked up arms dealer, he and Loomis saddling the team with crippling cap issues, and ditched when the going got rough.

it's all possible. A successful coach going somewhere else does not work out A LOT. Raising the possibility doesn't seem out of line.
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Just for reference, there have been seven coaches that have appeared in Super Bowls with two separate teams (Shula, Parcells, Reeves, Vermeil, Holmgren, Reid and Fox).

Gruden IMO can also be reasonably added as a "successful" coach in his first stint w/ your Raiders (2 playoff appearances) before winning the SB w/ the Bucs. Bruce Arians also had multiple playoff appearances w/ AZ prior to also winning SB w/ Bucs.

Perhaps others but that is off the top of my head.
 
It is all hanging on the OL. If Wilson can get some time or even a clean roll out pocket, he can be effective in this offense. However, when he is constantly under pressure and on his back, this team is going to struggle. With them bringing Stidham in, if Wilson has an early season game where he is stinking it up, I think you see him pulled, if only to send a message to him. This ownership spent 100 million on stadium upgrades this off-season, they expect a successful franchise and not a stadium full of boo-birds.

I really think this could go either way, but I am not feeling real positive about this year. It smells of .500 ball.
 
I think he turns it around, Stidham's a backup QB, nothing more nothing less, and things would have to be pretty bad for him to come in.
 
Courtjester said:
It is all hanging on the OL. If Wilson can get some time or even a clean roll out pocket, he can be effective in this offense. However, when he is constantly under pressure and on his back, this team is going to struggle. With them bringing Stidham in, if Wilson has an early season game where he is stinking it up, I think you see him pulled, if only to send a message to him. This ownership spent 100 million on stadium upgrades this off-season, they expect a successful franchise and not a stadium full of boo-birds.

I really think this could go either way, but I am not feeling real positive about this year. It smells of .500 ball.
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Good point. People forget that during Brees run they always had at a minimum an above-average OL and they were usually good to very good.

If the OL is Swiss cheese, it doesn't matter who's taking the snaps.
 
Russell Wilson completed 27-of-34 passes for 177 yards and two touchdowns in the Broncos 17-16, Week 1 loss to the Raiders, adding one yard on his lone carry.

The Broncos were fighting an uphill battle offensively from the start considering the multitude of injuries to their pass-catching corps. Wide receiver Jerry Jeudy was ruled out when the team released their inactives and tight end Greg Dulcich was forced from the game in the second quarter with a leg injury. Russ completed passes to 10 different players in this one but the top two pass-catchers were running back Samaje Perine and tight end Adam Trautman, again highlighting the struggles of the offense down field. Furthermore, running backs and tight ends accounted for 17 targets on 34 pass attempts, indicating a relative lack of balance in the offense. Head coach Sean Payton will have a lot to figure out before the Broncos host the Commanders in Week 2.
- Rotoworld
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Faust said:
Underdog NFL
Russell Wilson comparison through Week 2:

2022:
2 TDs, 1 INT
67.7% adjusted completion percentage
9.0 aDOT
86.5 passer rating

2023:
5 TDs, 1 INT
80.7% adjusted completion percentage
8.0 aDOT
108.5 passer rating
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He's playing better no doubt, from a low bar yes but still. They really needed to win 1 of those games to keep the heat at bay some. 0-3 or 0-4 and the shiite could begin to hit the fan
 
hamsterdam said:
Ray Barboni said:
Desert_Power said:
Not sure where else to put this excellent interview with Marshawn that talks about Russell a bit: https://twitter.com/ClubShayShay/status/1709606169306959889
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Any cliff notes to persuade me into clicking?
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He basically says he didn’t like Petey boy or Russ lol
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You're hearing what you want to hear. Didn't like? I have colleagues that I've worked with for a long time. Respect and admiration for many, but I haven't spent a minute outside of work with them. Doesn't mean I don't like them. I would say the same as Lynch. When you don't connect with a coworker it doesn't mean there's malice. They just didn't connect. The dude was and still is a serious introvert. He has a very small circle. I'm certain he had tons of teammates that he didn't have a relationship with outside of the locker room.

Go back and listen to what he actually says. ANYTHING THAT I SAY IS GOING TO COME OFF AS MALICE. His exact words. Further, did he say he didn't like Pete? Hell no. Not even close. Why did he decide to go back and play for Seattle again?

Bottom line: Lynch owned the Seahawk locker room for years without having to say a word. Truly a leader by example. Russell didn't. No debate there. Shannon Sharpe is a tool and trying to create drama over bad **** that happened ten years ago.
 
Hooper31 said:
hamsterdam said:
Ray Barboni said:
Desert_Power said:
Not sure where else to put this excellent interview with Marshawn that talks about Russell a bit: https://twitter.com/ClubShayShay/status/1709606169306959889
Click to expand...
Any cliff notes to persuade me into clicking?
Click to expand...
He basically says he didn’t like Petey boy or Russ lol
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You're hearing what you want to hear. Didn't like? I have colleagues that I've worked with for a long time. Respect and admiration for many, but I haven't spent a minute outside of work with them. Doesn't mean I don't like them. I would say the same as Lynch. When you don't connect with a coworker it doesn't mean there's malice. They just didn't connect. The dude was and still is a serious introvert. He has a very small circle. I'm certain he had tons of teammates that he didn't have a relationship with outside of the locker room.

Go back and listen to what he actually says. ANYTHING THAT I SAY IS GOING TO COME OFF AS MALICE. His exact words. Further, did he say he didn't like Pete? Hell no. Not even close. Why did he decide to go back and play for Seattle again?

Bottom line: Lynch owned the Seahawk locker room for years without having to say a word. Truly a leader by example. Russell didn't. No debate there. Shannon Sharpe is a tool and trying to create drama over bad **** that happened ten years ago.
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I don’t think I am. When someone says they don’t f*ck with someone, it generally means they don’t like them.

Second, this isn’t the first time he’s alluded to the fact he has no relationship with Russ. He doesn’t talk to him ever, doesn’t even have his number. I’m not saying he hates him, but people usually want to have a connection with someone they like. As far as coworkers, we’ve all had some we don’t like that we tolerate, even if you can respect them in regards to work.

Anyways, it’s not that serious. No use in going back and forth on interpreting what he says.
 
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Yeah, when you use the phrase "I don't **** with that dude," and it's about hanging out, that means you don't like or respect them for some reason, or that the situations he puts you in are uncool. Something not good. Lynch was being uber diplomatic about Russ, but it was pretty clear that the conversation Lynch wanted to have with him went horribly awry for Lynch's taste.
 
FarFromHome said:
I planned on sitting Sutton this week.
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I figured you had skin in the game. In my second dynasty league (I have a bad, very young team that is second in points scored and is 4-0. But we're still bad. Believe me.) I'm going to be forced to start Mims due to byes.
 
FarFromHome said:
More importantly is the defense is really bad. Russ will always be in a throwing game script. That's good for fantasy. Decent backup
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We'll see. 2nd half vs CHI was something to build off.

The vast majority of Broncos D personnel practiced every day last year vs. Hackett offense, so there's some familiarity.

Plus Denver gets back key players at all three levels this week that have been out since before the Miami game (or early on). S Justin Simmons, ILB Josey Jewell, Edge Frank Clark and DL Mike Purcell. And then potential addition by subtraction getting rid of Gregory and CB Bassey, who was getting torched.
 
rockaction said:
D.J. Reed of the Jets out with a concussion this week. It was shaping up to be a brutal week for Russ, and it just got a lot better. Jets are only 19th in DVOA defense overall. That's definitely not stellar.
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I thought Football Outsiders shut down. Where are you getting DVOA data?
 
Perfect guy for my SF spot on a rebuilding/tanking roster. Can't remember the last time I saw a starting QB (with his experience, not a rookie/3rd stringer) play an entire game and finish <100 yards passing.
 
Wilson's getting WAY too much flak for last night's game. I'm not arguing he played well or anything, but a different QB isn't going to fix anything. Bad playcalling, no open WRs, and weird personnel usage are all bigger problems.

The only guy on the Broncos offense who played well was Javonte Williams and he only got 18 snaps, and Courtland Sutton for 1 really impressive play.
 
Sutton used his body well on a couple of his catches, but i can't tell if Wilson is underthrowing all of his receivers or if they are just not getting open. the second interception was just mind boggling, two receivers going downfield from where the ball was intercepted, no idea what russell was throwing to or if one of the two receivers were expected to sit there. from the angle of the camera it just looked like russ missed by yards. Jeudy is trash and that's already covered well elsewhere on the board. that oline didn't give russ much time either. this whole team is not good. Russ will and should take the flak for last night, but not sure it's all or even mostly on him with that supporting cast.
 
wlwiles said:
Can't remember the last time I saw a starting QB (with his experience, not a rookie/3rd stringer) play an entire game and finish <100 yards passing.
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Joe Burrow, week one. Of course he was injured but still had 31 passing attempts.
Oddly, both tannehill and Danny Jones have games with 104 yards this year.
 
Russ sucks. I just think he's mentally screwed at this point. Everyone wants to make all these excuses why it's not him, but he's been awful for 2 years now. 2nd half of 2021 - Now...multiple teams, multiple coaches and he's still just below average and plays like a scared rookie this far into his career.
 
It's going to be really painful for the Broncos to release Wilson this offseason.
  1. If they release him outright and don't designate it as post-6/1, they take a 2024 dead cap hit of $85M. That does not seem feasible.
  2. If they release him and designate it as post-6/1, they take a 2024 dead cap hit of $35.4M and a 2025 dead cap hit of $49.6M. I'm not sure if that is feasible or not, but at minimum it would mean their recovery likely cannot truly begin until 2026.
His 2025 salary becomes fully guaranteed if he is on the roster on March 21, 2024. So it seems like they have to go with option #2 here and release him before that date.

The trade was bad, especially in hindsight, but the real problem for Denver was the unnecessary and premature contract extension. Their franchise is in year 2 of a 4 year death spiral as a result of that decision.

They probably need to bench him to avoid any more money getting guaranteed through an injury, trade off as many players as possible, and tank for the best first round pick they can get next season to draft a QBOTF. Then that guy will have to go through 2 seasons of cap hell after the Wilson release, but at least by 2026 they could have their QB and have emerged into a healthy cap situation.
 

No one will touch Wilson now but if he is on the roster the fifth day of the league year in 2024, his 2025 salary becomes fully guaranteed. And that’s 37 million dollars—yikes.

The Broncos will have to eat the 17 million guaranteed for the 2024 season as Wilson either continues to play or moves to the television booth. You can honestly say without one ounce of hesitation, the next 11 games are the last games Bronco fans will see Wilson in their uniform.
 
travdogg said:
Wilson's getting WAY too much flak for last night's game. I'm not arguing he played well or anything, but a different QB isn't going to fix anything. Bad playcalling, no open WRs, and weird personnel usage are all bigger problems.

The only guy on the Broncos offense who played well was Javonte Williams and he only got 18 snaps, and Courtland Sutton for 1 really impressive play.
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Plenty of blame to go around...

Wilson looked like a rookie out there last night. That first INT was just awful and another case where he should have checked downed and lived to fight another down (just like his scramble/sack/fumble/scoop/score death blow against NYJ).

As you said however, these WRs seem to be blanketed out there. Maybe they have just mailed it in at this point, maybe the scheme sucks, maybe both.

Peyton's time out with 0:30 left in the half was a bonehead play (which he admitted to in his presser... didn't know what down it was) which handed 3 points to KCC - albeit on a 60-yd FG!
 
menobrown said:

No one will touch Wilson now but if he is on the roster the fifth day of the league year in 2024, his 2025 salary becomes fully guaranteed. And that’s 37 million dollars—yikes.

The Broncos will have to eat the 17 million guaranteed for the 2024 season as Wilson either continues to play or moves to the television booth. You can honestly say without one ounce of hesitation, the next 11 games are the last games Bronco fans will see Wilson in their uniform.
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quite likely. at that salary you expect a top QB. I know his numbers are better, but they likely still need more if they are to keep him.
 
Here's the out for the Broncos, assuming Russ doesn't make a dramatic turnaround very very soon...

POST-6/1 RELEASE
2024 Dead Cap: $35,400,000
2025 Dead Cap: $49,600,000
2024 Cap Savings: $0

Those dead cap figures look daunting, right? They are not at all. Russ has the following cap charges those two years, which get replaced by the dead cap numbers above.

2024 $35.4 MM
2025 $55.4 MM

So then, releasing him this coming offseason with a post-June 1 designation would actually be cap neutral in 2024, and free up ($55.4 - 49.6) = ~$6 MM in cap space in 2025. They would be using $35.4 MM and $49.6 MM of cap on a QB that is no longer there, but at this/that point, they might consider that addition by subtraction in that they could move on to a rookie QB with a cheap contract for those two seasons. Or even just roll with Stidham who is already on the books.
 
It's wild watching him in a game with Mahomes. The pocket broke down for both offenses many times. Mahomes makes a play or dumps the ball, either way he never looks panicked. Russ somehow becomes a person who has never seen a pass rush before, panics, and does something insanely dumb. How someone with as much NFL experience as Wilson can look like that is nuts.
 
^^^ Important FYI, the above exit strategy gets upended if Russ gets hurt this season and suddenly 2025 guarantees kick in. It's pretty much the exact same scenario as late season Derek Carr last year, when the Raiders sent him home to finish the season, once they decided he would be released in the offseason. They could not risk him getting hurt and blowing up their exit plan. Hence, why I suggest that detail is super dangerous for anyone counting on Russ as a starter in fantasy right now (obviously, only an issue in 2QB and SF leagues). If you are in that camp, you might want to consider hand-cuffing Stidham at some point if the water starts bubbling.
 
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