Quality vs. Price - Is the USA doing it correctly? (1 Viewer)

[The Z Machine]

We used to travel to Europe annually a while back. This was a motivating factor for me tor me to go it culinary (wanted to move to Austria or Switzerland)

Come and visit in a few months...

 

[Drunken knight]

We used to travel to Europe annually a while back. This was a motivating factor for me tor me to go it culinary (wanted to move to Austria or Switzerland)

Come and visit in a few months...

we are talking about a ski trip in 25 (zermatt/arlberg)

 

[Acrobat7]

I've been saying for years that Europe does many, many things better than we do, but no one ever seems to want to hear it.

One of the reasons my wife and I are on a path to becoming expats in the future.

This. It really is eye opening in many ways. I'm in the process of obtaining Spanish citizenship through the grandchildren law with near future plans of moving abroad.

Spain would be great, but their wealth tax would be a pain to operate around.

I believe there is a 4m threshold in Andalusia... (from where I am currently typing this as a resident of Spain.)

Andalusia actually effectively got rid of their wealth tax, but residents would be subject to the (allegedly for 2 years) national level wealth tax that kicks in at 3 million Euros. It seems like the national government is imposing this because of Andalusia and Madrid getting rid of theirs. My sights were more set on the Barcelona/Costa Brava region anyways...

The real estate market for apartments/houses in Madrid is quite well in the hands of Venezuelan/Latin American money (via Miami) and there was a lot of Russian money in the Marbella region. Something had to change. You definitely did more research than me because I have a European passport anyway, so it's extremely easy for me to live and work anywhere in the EU thanks to the freedom of movement.

 

[Terminalxylem]

We have become all about satisfying the shareholders.

No longer is it about taking care of your employees and your suppliers.
It's about making the board happy and doing whatever it takes to make that happen.

Corporate social responsibility is trying to change this, theoretically.
Freakonomics podcast on the topic
Related - Big Pharma gives away a lot of stuff

 

[bcat01]

Just like anything else, we deserve what we tolerate. If there were no market for cheap goods, companies would be forced to not offer them.

I know it's not that simple, but I think it's safe to say Americans want a lot of "stuff", Europeans (as an example) would prefer a few quality items to a bunch of crap.

Agreed. There's nothing stopping a high quality offering in most markets. We do tend to overspend on tech products from Apple, oversized water bottles and big trucks.

I would think there is a high quality offering in most markets. I do a lot of hiking and biking and its just bonkers how much people spend for items to do both. There's a fish market down the road from me in suburbia that's charging $45/lb for certain fish. I guess someone is buying it. I just go there for the salmon (still $25/lb) b/c i use it for sushi and its a lot cheaper to do that than to get it from the sushi place.

Agreed. It's certainly true there are a lot of lower quality / cheaper products available.

But I see a ton of high-quality more expensive products that people seem to love.

If anything, it seems the high end / high quality products are more popular than I've ever seen them with U.S. buyers.

I see a lot of people buying the more expensive items over cheap and I live in a rural area. Expensive cars, e-bikes, shoes and clothing. There are a few local markets that sell meat and other items for 3x what you can get at Kroger and they are doing very well.

 

[Joe Bryant]

I see a lot of people buying the more expensive items over cheap and I live in a rural area. Expensive cars, e-bikes, shoes and clothing. There are a few local markets that sell meat and other items for 3x what you can get at Kroger and they are doing very well.

Thanks. I see the same. Seems to me the higher quality products are more popular now than ever. Doesn't seem to fit with the "Americans only buy junk" narrative. I think it's more a range.

 

[Atomic Punk]

I see a lot of people buying the more expensive items over cheap and I live in a rural area. Expensive cars, e-bikes, shoes and clothing. There are a few local markets that sell meat and other items for 3x what you can get at Kroger and they are doing very well.

Thanks. I see the same. Seems to me the higher quality products are more popular now than ever. Doesn't seem to fit with the "Americans only buy junk" narrative. I think it's more a range.

I think this mostly has to do with the social circles we are part of (including here at FBGs). Generally speaking though, I think a larger majority do buy lower cost/quality in North America (I’ll include Canadians in this since that is where I’m from). Affordability and simplicity are key for many.

My somewhat limited European experience (father is Portuguese and mother is Italian and I’ve travelled to both countries) tells me that the larger majority of them gravitate to the “less is more” philosophy of life … especially those in our general age bracket.

 

[Desert_Power]

I've been saying for years that Europe does many, many things better than we do, but no one ever seems to want to hear it.

One of the reasons my wife and I are on a path to becoming expats in the future.

This. It really is eye opening in many ways. I'm in the process of obtaining Spanish citizenship through the grandchildren law with near future plans of moving abroad.

Spain would be great, but their wealth tax would be a pain to operate around.

I believe there is a 4m threshold in Andalusia... (from where I am currently typing this as a resident of Spain.)

Andalusia actually effectively got rid of their wealth tax, but residents would be subject to the (allegedly for 2 years) national level wealth tax that kicks in at 3 million Euros. It seems like the national government is imposing this because of Andalusia and Madrid getting rid of theirs. My sights were more set on the Barcelona/Costa Brava region anyways...

The real estate market for apartments/houses in Madrid is quite well in the hands of Venezuelan/Latin American money (via Miami) and there was a lot of Russian money in the Marbella region. Something had to change. You definitely did more research than me because I have a European passport anyway, so it's extremely easy for me to live and work anywhere in the EU thanks to the freedom of movement.

Hah, I have a bit of a hobby of looking up cool houses/flats in coastal areas on Idealista. These countries definitely set out for a while to attract foreign investment, but the tide has turned.

 

[Mr. Mojo]

We've been to many European countries and we've noticed their pride in providing good food (and products/services) with less emphasis on making a lot of money. Here the emphasis is on profit.

 

[IvanKaramazov]

I see a lot of people buying the more expensive items over cheap and I live in a rural area. Expensive cars, e-bikes, shoes and clothing. There are a few local markets that sell meat and other items for 3x what you can get at Kroger and they are doing very well.

Thanks. I see the same. Seems to me the higher quality products are more popular now than ever. Doesn't seem to fit with the "Americans only buy junk" narrative. I think it's more a range.

I think this mostly has to do with the social circles we are part of (including here at FBGs). Generally speaking though, I think a larger majority do buy lower cost/quality in North America (I’ll include Canadians in this since that is where I’m from). Affordability and simplicity are key for many.

My somewhat limited European experience (father is Portuguese and mother is Italian and I’ve travelled to both countries) tells me that the larger majority of them gravitate to the “less is more” philosophy of life … especially those in our general age bracket.

That's because Europe is poor compared to the United States. When we were in high school, the US and EU had similar living standards. That isn't the case today.

This is the other side of the coin to the observation that Europeans work less than Americans. That's true, of course. The tradeoff has been that our societies are starting to seriously diverge in terms of economic activity and innovation. I've always put a high value on work-life balance, so I totally understand why a reasonable person might be happy with that tradeoff. But it does explain why Europeans have less stuff than we do.

If anybody wants to see data on this, you can look up per-capita GDP figures over time here. Pick a year from your youth, when you were just starting to learn about the world. I picked 1980. Look at US per-capita GDP in 1980 (or 1984, or 1990) and compare it to US per-capita GDP today. Now do that for a random assortment of European countries. Don't do Spain, Greece, or Italy. Everybody knows those countries are dysfunctional. Look at the UK, Belgium, Sweden, and similar "peer" nations. Notice how much ground they lost relative to the US in not even half a century.

 

[McBokonon]

I see a lot of people buying the more expensive items over cheap and I live in a rural area. Expensive cars, e-bikes, shoes and clothing. There are a few local markets that sell meat and other items for 3x what you can get at Kroger and they are doing very well.

Thanks. I see the same. Seems to me the higher quality products are more popular now than ever. Doesn't seem to fit with the "Americans only buy junk" narrative. I think it's more a range.

I think this mostly has to do with the social circles we are part of (including here at FBGs). Generally speaking though, I think a larger majority do buy lower cost/quality in North America (I’ll include Canadians in this since that is where I’m from). Affordability and simplicity are key for many.

My somewhat limited European experience (father is Portuguese and mother is Italian and I’ve travelled to both countries) tells me that the larger majority of them gravitate to the “less is more” philosophy of life … especially those in our general age bracket.

That's because Europe is poor compared to the United States. When we were in high school, the US and EU had similar living standards. That isn't the case today.

This is the other side of the coin to the observation that Europeans work less than Americans. That's true, of course. The tradeoff has been that our societies are starting to seriously diverge in terms of economic activity and innovation. I've always put a high value on work-life balance, so I totally understand why a reasonable person might be happy with that tradeoff. But it does explain why Europeans have less stuff than we do.

If anybody wants to see data on this, you can look up per-capita GDP figures over time here. Pick a year from your youth, when you were just starting to learn about the world. I picked 1980. Look at US per-capita GDP in 1980 (or 1984, or 1990) and compare it to US per-capita GDP today. Now do that for a random assortment of European countries. Don't do Spain, Greece, or Italy. Everybody knows those countries are dysfunctional. Look at the UK, Belgium, Sweden, and similar "peer" nations. Notice how much ground they lost relative to the US in not even half a century.

I'd be interested to learn how much of this is attributable to the focus on work/life balance (I agree it's part of it) and how much of this is due to the more generally favorable business regulatory environment we have here that allows businesses to grow. European regulators seem to think companies that grow into large enterprises must have cheated as opposed to simply being the best at what they do. There's also bound to be other factors here tat impact GDP (like how much we tend to invest in R&D vs. Europe) that aren't related to siestas. I genuinely don't know, might look into that today instead of working.

 

[IvanKaramazov]

I see a lot of people buying the more expensive items over cheap and I live in a rural area. Expensive cars, e-bikes, shoes and clothing. There are a few local markets that sell meat and other items for 3x what you can get at Kroger and they are doing very well.

Thanks. I see the same. Seems to me the higher quality products are more popular now than ever. Doesn't seem to fit with the "Americans only buy junk" narrative. I think it's more a range.

I think this mostly has to do with the social circles we are part of (including here at FBGs). Generally speaking though, I think a larger majority do buy lower cost/quality in North America (I’ll include Canadians in this since that is where I’m from). Affordability and simplicity are key for many.

My somewhat limited European experience (father is Portuguese and mother is Italian and I’ve travelled to both countries) tells me that the larger majority of them gravitate to the “less is more” philosophy of life … especially those in our general age bracket.

That's because Europe is poor compared to the United States. When we were in high school, the US and EU had similar living standards. That isn't the case today.

This is the other side of the coin to the observation that Europeans work less than Americans. That's true, of course. The tradeoff has been that our societies are starting to seriously diverge in terms of economic activity and innovation. I've always put a high value on work-life balance, so I totally understand why a reasonable person might be happy with that tradeoff. But it does explain why Europeans have less stuff than we do.

If anybody wants to see data on this, you can look up per-capita GDP figures over time here. Pick a year from your youth, when you were just starting to learn about the world. I picked 1980. Look at US per-capita GDP in 1980 (or 1984, or 1990) and compare it to US per-capita GDP today. Now do that for a random assortment of European countries. Don't do Spain, Greece, or Italy. Everybody knows those countries are dysfunctional. Look at the UK, Belgium, Sweden, and similar "peer" nations. Notice how much ground they lost relative to the US in not even half a century.

I'd be interested to learn how much of this is attributable to the focus on work/life balance (I agree it's part of it) and how much of this is due to the more generally favorable business regulatory environment we have here that allows businesses to grow. European regulators seem to think companies that grow into large enterprises must have cheated as opposed to simply being the best at what they do. There's also bound to be other factors here tat impact GDP (like how much we tend to invest in R&D vs. Europe) that aren't related to siestas. I genuinely don't know, might look into that today instead of working.

It's all of that stuff. The reduced work hours, relatively-aggressive regulatory environment, and welfare state are all part of the same cultural choice. Europe opted for a "work less and spread the wealth around" approach, and the US opted for a "work more and look out for yourself" approach. I'm exaggerating of course -- the US has a social safety net and Europe has successful businesses. But everybody would agree that we chose different paths a while back, and we can see how that turned out.

 

[DA RAIDERS]

I see a lot of people buying the more expensive items over cheap and I live in a rural area. Expensive cars, e-bikes, shoes and clothing. There are a few local markets that sell meat and other items for 3x what you can get at Kroger and they are doing very well.

Thanks. I see the same. Seems to me the higher quality products are more popular now than ever. Doesn't seem to fit with the "Americans only buy junk" narrative. I think it's more a range.

I think this mostly has to do with the social circles we are part of (including here at FBGs). Generally speaking though, I think a larger majority do buy lower cost/quality in North America (I’ll include Canadians in this since that is where I’m from). Affordability and simplicity are key for many.

My somewhat limited European experience (father is Portuguese and mother is Italian and I’ve travelled to both countries) tells me that the larger majority of them gravitate to the “less is more” philosophy of life … especially those in our general age bracket.

That's because Europe is poor compared to the United States. When we were in high school, the US and EU had similar living standards. That isn't the case today.

This is the other side of the coin to the observation that Europeans work less than Americans. That's true, of course. The tradeoff has been that our societies are starting to seriously diverge in terms of economic activity and innovation. I've always put a high value on work-life balance, so I totally understand why a reasonable person might be happy with that tradeoff. But it does explain why Europeans have less stuff than we do.

If anybody wants to see data on this, you can look up per-capita GDP figures over time here. Pick a year from your youth, when you were just starting to learn about the world. I picked 1980. Look at US per-capita GDP in 1980 (or 1984, or 1990) and compare it to US per-capita GDP today. Now do that for a random assortment of European countries. Don't do Spain, Greece, or Italy. Everybody knows those countries are dysfunctional. Look at the UK, Belgium, Sweden, and similar "peer" nations. Notice how much ground they lost relative to the US in not even half a century.

I'd be interested to learn how much of this is attributable to the focus on work/life balance (I agree it's part of it) and how much of this is due to the more generally favorable business regulatory environment we have here that allows businesses to grow. European regulators seem to think companies that grow into large enterprises must have cheated as opposed to simply being the best at what they do. There's also bound to be other factors here tat impact GDP (like how much we tend to invest in R&D vs. Europe) that aren't related to siestas. I genuinely don't know, might look into that today instead of working.

It's all of that stuff. The reduced work hours, relatively-aggressive regulatory environment, and welfare state are all part of the same cultural choice. Europe opted for a "work less and spread the wealth around" approach, and the US opted for a "work more and look out for yourself" approach. I'm exaggerating of course -- the US has a social safety net and Europe has successful businesses. But everybody would agree that we chose different paths a while back, and we can see how that turned out.

Have you been to Europe?

 

[IvanKaramazov]

I see a lot of people buying the more expensive items over cheap and I live in a rural area. Expensive cars, e-bikes, shoes and clothing. There are a few local markets that sell meat and other items for 3x what you can get at Kroger and they are doing very well.

Thanks. I see the same. Seems to me the higher quality products are more popular now than ever. Doesn't seem to fit with the "Americans only buy junk" narrative. I think it's more a range.

I think this mostly has to do with the social circles we are part of (including here at FBGs). Generally speaking though, I think a larger majority do buy lower cost/quality in North America (I’ll include Canadians in this since that is where I’m from). Affordability and simplicity are key for many.

My somewhat limited European experience (father is Portuguese and mother is Italian and I’ve travelled to both countries) tells me that the larger majority of them gravitate to the “less is more” philosophy of life … especially those in our general age bracket.

That's because Europe is poor compared to the United States. When we were in high school, the US and EU had similar living standards. That isn't the case today.

This is the other side of the coin to the observation that Europeans work less than Americans. That's true, of course. The tradeoff has been that our societies are starting to seriously diverge in terms of economic activity and innovation. I've always put a high value on work-life balance, so I totally understand why a reasonable person might be happy with that tradeoff. But it does explain why Europeans have less stuff than we do.

If anybody wants to see data on this, you can look up per-capita GDP figures over time here. Pick a year from your youth, when you were just starting to learn about the world. I picked 1980. Look at US per-capita GDP in 1980 (or 1984, or 1990) and compare it to US per-capita GDP today. Now do that for a random assortment of European countries. Don't do Spain, Greece, or Italy. Everybody knows those countries are dysfunctional. Look at the UK, Belgium, Sweden, and similar "peer" nations. Notice how much ground they lost relative to the US in not even half a century.

I'd be interested to learn how much of this is attributable to the focus on work/life balance (I agree it's part of it) and how much of this is due to the more generally favorable business regulatory environment we have here that allows businesses to grow. European regulators seem to think companies that grow into large enterprises must have cheated as opposed to simply being the best at what they do. There's also bound to be other factors here tat impact GDP (like how much we tend to invest in R&D vs. Europe) that aren't related to siestas. I genuinely don't know, might look into that today instead of working.

It's all of that stuff. The reduced work hours, relatively-aggressive regulatory environment, and welfare state are all part of the same cultural choice. Europe opted for a "work less and spread the wealth around" approach, and the US opted for a "work more and look out for yourself" approach. I'm exaggerating of course -- the US has a social safety net and Europe has successful businesses. But everybody would agree that we chose different paths a while back, and we can see how that turned out.

Have you been to Europe?

Of course. It's a nice place to visit.

What folks in this thread need to keep in mind is that people like us -- affluent Americans nearing retirement age -- are not living the lives of the median Parisian when we visit Paris. I can see why a place like Europe would be an attractive retirement destination for us. It's inexpensive, it has a famously great rail system, intracontinental flights are dirt cheap, and you live in a giant museum so there's lots to see and do. Makes sense.

 

[Atomic Punk]

I see a lot of people buying the more expensive items over cheap and I live in a rural area. Expensive cars, e-bikes, shoes and clothing. There are a few local markets that sell meat and other items for 3x what you can get at Kroger and they are doing very well.

Thanks. I see the same. Seems to me the higher quality products are more popular now than ever. Doesn't seem to fit with the "Americans only buy junk" narrative. I think it's more a range.

I think this mostly has to do with the social circles we are part of (including here at FBGs). Generally speaking though, I think a larger majority do buy lower cost/quality in North America (I’ll include Canadians in this since that is where I’m from). Affordability and simplicity are key for many.

My somewhat limited European experience (father is Portuguese and mother is Italian and I’ve travelled to both countries) tells me that the larger majority of them gravitate to the “less is more” philosophy of life … especially those in our general age bracket.

That's because Europe is poor compared to the United States. When we were in high school, the US and EU had similar living standards. That isn't the case today.

This is the other side of the coin to the observation that Europeans work less than Americans. That's true, of course. The tradeoff has been that our societies are starting to seriously diverge in terms of economic activity and innovation. I've always put a high value on work-life balance, so I totally understand why a reasonable person might be happy with that tradeoff. But it does explain why Europeans have less stuff than we do.

If anybody wants to see data on this, you can look up per-capita GDP figures over time here. Pick a year from your youth, when you were just starting to learn about the world. I picked 1980. Look at US per-capita GDP in 1980 (or 1984, or 1990) and compare it to US per-capita GDP today. Now do that for a random assortment of European countries. Don't do Spain, Greece, or Italy. Everybody knows those countries are dysfunctional. Look at the UK, Belgium, Sweden, and similar "peer" nations. Notice how much ground they lost relative to the US in not even half a century.

I'd be interested to learn how much of this is attributable to the focus on work/life balance (I agree it's part of it) and how much of this is due to the more generally favorable business regulatory environment we have here that allows businesses to grow. European regulators seem to think companies that grow into large enterprises must have cheated as opposed to simply being the best at what they do. There's also bound to be other factors here tat impact GDP (like how much we tend to invest in R&D vs. Europe) that aren't related to siestas. I genuinely don't know, might look into that today instead of working.

It's all of that stuff. The reduced work hours, relatively-aggressive regulatory environment, and welfare state are all part of the same cultural choice. Europe opted for a "work less and spread the wealth around" approach, and the US opted for a "work more and look out for yourself" approach. I'm exaggerating of course -- the US has a social safety net and Europe has successful businesses. But everybody would agree that we chose different paths a while back, and we can see how that turned out.

Agree across the board. Back to the OP question, there is no answer as to who is doing it correctly … different strokes for different folks and all that.

 

[DA RAIDERS]

I see a lot of people buying the more expensive items over cheap and I live in a rural area. Expensive cars, e-bikes, shoes and clothing. There are a few local markets that sell meat and other items for 3x what you can get at Kroger and they are doing very well.

Thanks. I see the same. Seems to me the higher quality products are more popular now than ever. Doesn't seem to fit with the "Americans only buy junk" narrative. I think it's more a range.

I think this mostly has to do with the social circles we are part of (including here at FBGs). Generally speaking though, I think a larger majority do buy lower cost/quality in North America (I’ll include Canadians in this since that is where I’m from). Affordability and simplicity are key for many.

My somewhat limited European experience (father is Portuguese and mother is Italian and I’ve travelled to both countries) tells me that the larger majority of them gravitate to the “less is more” philosophy of life … especially those in our general age bracket.

That's because Europe is poor compared to the United States. When we were in high school, the US and EU had similar living standards. That isn't the case today.

This is the other side of the coin to the observation that Europeans work less than Americans. That's true, of course. The tradeoff has been that our societies are starting to seriously diverge in terms of economic activity and innovation. I've always put a high value on work-life balance, so I totally understand why a reasonable person might be happy with that tradeoff. But it does explain why Europeans have less stuff than we do.

If anybody wants to see data on this, you can look up per-capita GDP figures over time here. Pick a year from your youth, when you were just starting to learn about the world. I picked 1980. Look at US per-capita GDP in 1980 (or 1984, or 1990) and compare it to US per-capita GDP today. Now do that for a random assortment of European countries. Don't do Spain, Greece, or Italy. Everybody knows those countries are dysfunctional. Look at the UK, Belgium, Sweden, and similar "peer" nations. Notice how much ground they lost relative to the US in not even half a century.

I'd be interested to learn how much of this is attributable to the focus on work/life balance (I agree it's part of it) and how much of this is due to the more generally favorable business regulatory environment we have here that allows businesses to grow. European regulators seem to think companies that grow into large enterprises must have cheated as opposed to simply being the best at what they do. There's also bound to be other factors here tat impact GDP (like how much we tend to invest in R&D vs. Europe) that aren't related to siestas. I genuinely don't know, might look into that today instead of working.

It's all of that stuff. The reduced work hours, relatively-aggressive regulatory environment, and welfare state are all part of the same cultural choice. Europe opted for a "work less and spread the wealth around" approach, and the US opted for a "work more and look out for yourself" approach. I'm exaggerating of course -- the US has a social safety net and Europe has successful businesses. But everybody would agree that we chose different paths a while back, and we can see how that turned out.

Have you been to Europe?

Of course. It's a nice place to visit.

What folks in this thread need to keep in mind is that people like us -- affluent Americans nearing retirement age -- are not living the lives of the median Parisian when we visit Paris. I can see why a place like Europe would be an attractive retirement destination for us. It's inexpensive, it has a famously great rail system, intracontinental flights are dirt cheap, and you live in a giant museum so there's lots to see and do. Makes sense.

You’re correct.

If I were to move to Europe. Or when I visit again, I have zero desire to go to a big city.

 

[FreeBaGeL]

It's good if your primary concern is your 401k performance. Not good if your concern is pretty much anything else.

Our entire economy and society is built around the stock market and corporations. Produce the lowest passable quality goods at the cheapest possible price with the maximum demands from labor to extract the largest profit margins that grow at an infinitely expanding rate so the share price will increase. You had a great quarter? All that means is that you have to have an even greater quarter next time.

One famous example of this over in the stock thread is the Weber Grill stock IPO. Great grills. Terrible stock. As noted very publicly when they IPO'd by analysts who predicted its terrible performance, mainly because the grills last too long and don't create recurring customers that have to buy a new one in 3 years.

We work harder for crappier stuff, but our companies are the ones that drive innovation. So we get to brag to Europeans that the smart phone operating systems they use are made by 'Mericans. They only get to brag that they live a happier, healthier life with more leisure and family time while being able to acquire better products and better food at similar prices. Checkmate, Europeans.

 

[Drunken knight]

I see a lot of people buying the more expensive items over cheap and I live in a rural area. Expensive cars, e-bikes, shoes and clothing. There are a few local markets that sell meat and other items for 3x what you can get at Kroger and they are doing very well.

Thanks. I see the same. Seems to me the higher quality products are more popular now than ever. Doesn't seem to fit with the "Americans only buy junk" narrative. I think it's more a range.

I think this mostly has to do with the social circles we are part of (including here at FBGs). Generally speaking though, I think a larger majority do buy lower cost/quality in North America (I’ll include Canadians in this since that is where I’m from). Affordability and simplicity are key for many.

My somewhat limited European experience (father is Portuguese and mother is Italian and I’ve travelled to both countries) tells me that the larger majority of them gravitate to the “less is more” philosophy of life … especially those in our general age bracket.

That's because Europe is poor compared to the United States. When we were in high school, the US and EU had similar living standards. That isn't the case today.

This is the other side of the coin to the observation that Europeans work less than Americans. That's true, of course. The tradeoff has been that our societies are starting to seriously diverge in terms of economic activity and innovation. I've always put a high value on work-life balance, so I totally understand why a reasonable person might be happy with that tradeoff. But it does explain why Europeans have less stuff than we do.

If anybody wants to see data on this, you can look up per-capita GDP figures over time here. Pick a year from your youth, when you were just starting to learn about the world. I picked 1980. Look at US per-capita GDP in 1980 (or 1984, or 1990) and compare it to US per-capita GDP today. Now do that for a random assortment of European countries. Don't do Spain, Greece, or Italy. Everybody knows those countries are dysfunctional. Look at the UK, Belgium, Sweden, and similar "peer" nations. Notice how much ground they lost relative to the US in not even half a century.

I'd be interested to learn how much of this is attributable to the focus on work/life balance (I agree it's part of it) and how much of this is due to the more generally favorable business regulatory environment we have here that allows businesses to grow. European regulators seem to think companies that grow into large enterprises must have cheated as opposed to simply being the best at what they do. There's also bound to be other factors here tat impact GDP (like how much we tend to invest in R&D vs. Europe) that aren't related to siestas. I genuinely don't know, might look into that today instead of working.

It's all of that stuff. The reduced work hours, relatively-aggressive regulatory environment, and welfare state are all part of the same cultural choice. Europe opted for a "work less and spread the wealth around" approach, and the US opted for a "work more and look out for yourself" approach. I'm exaggerating of course -- the US has a social safety net and Europe has successful businesses. But everybody would agree that we chose different paths a while back, and we can see how that turned out.

Have you been to Europe?

Of course. It's a nice place to visit.

What folks in this thread need to keep in mind is that people like us -- affluent Americans nearing retirement age -- are not living the lives of the median Parisian when we visit Paris. I can see why a place like Europe would be an attractive retirement destination for us. It's inexpensive, it has a famously great rail system, intracontinental flights are dirt cheap, and you live in a giant museum so there's lots to see and do. Makes sense.

You’re correct.

If I were to move to Europe. Or when I visit again, I have zero desire to go to a big city.

i still enjoy the culture and buzz of some of the bigger cities: Paris, Munich, Vienna, Lucerne, Florence.

i generally enjoy staying in more rural areas though

 

[Acrobat7]

I see a lot of people buying the more expensive items over cheap and I live in a rural area. Expensive cars, e-bikes, shoes and clothing. There are a few local markets that sell meat and other items for 3x what you can get at Kroger and they are doing very well.

Thanks. I see the same. Seems to me the higher quality products are more popular now than ever. Doesn't seem to fit with the "Americans only buy junk" narrative. I think it's more a range.

I think this mostly has to do with the social circles we are part of (including here at FBGs). Generally speaking though, I think a larger majority do buy lower cost/quality in North America (I’ll include Canadians in this since that is where I’m from). Affordability and simplicity are key for many.

My somewhat limited European experience (father is Portuguese and mother is Italian and I’ve travelled to both countries) tells me that the larger majority of them gravitate to the “less is more” philosophy of life … especially those in our general age bracket.

That's because Europe is poor compared to the United States. When we were in high school, the US and EU had similar living standards. That isn't the case today.

This is the other side of the coin to the observation that Europeans work less than Americans. That's true, of course. The tradeoff has been that our societies are starting to seriously diverge in terms of economic activity and innovation. I've always put a high value on work-life balance, so I totally understand why a reasonable person might be happy with that tradeoff. But it does explain why Europeans have less stuff than we do.

If anybody wants to see data on this, you can look up per-capita GDP figures over time here. Pick a year from your youth, when you were just starting to learn about the world. I picked 1980. Look at US per-capita GDP in 1980 (or 1984, or 1990) and compare it to US per-capita GDP today. Now do that for a random assortment of European countries. Don't do Spain, Greece, or Italy. Everybody knows those countries are dysfunctional. Look at the UK, Belgium, Sweden, and similar "peer" nations. Notice how much ground they lost relative to the US in not even half a century.

What on earth makes Spain a dysfunctional country?

 

[Joe Bryant]

We work harder for crappier stuff, but our companies are the ones that drive innovation. So we get to brag to Europeans that the smart phone operating systems they use are made by 'Mericans. They only get to brag that they live a happier, healthier life with more leisure and family time while being able to acquire better products and better food at similar prices. Checkmate, Europeans.

I understand the little shots at "'Mericans" and I get it's fun to claim "checkmate" but I've always found the other claim interesting.

One has a ton of control over how happy and healthy they are. People get to choose what they eat or how much they exercise. They get to decide how much family time and leisure time they have. In a global economy, most people have equal shot at tons of products.

It's not like there's some mandate from Washington, D.C., restricting people from family or leisure time or forcing them to stay on the couch.

 

[Joe Bryant]

To add, I say that as someone fresh off nearly two lovely weeks in Portugal where I had a great time.

 

[Joe Bryant]

I'm currently sitting in the Copenhagen airport waiting to fly to Amsterdam for the final leg of my European trip for the Summer. While I certainly don't match "power-travelers" or those who fly all over the world for work, I feel like I have a decent idea of what life is like in some of Europe's most popular, destination cities.

One thing that I have been most struck by on this trip, is the quality of products, services, food, clothing etc. that is simply the standard that is set and expected by people who live over here. The public transportation, is fast, reliable, clean & safe. The food is made of high quality ingredients and tastes great (even stuff you pick-up from 7/11 - seriously). The clothes that people wear aren't the Kohl's store brand (what I often wear), and you can tell that they are made with top-notch materials and made to last.

In the USA, I feel like we have created a society/economy/culture/system where the goal of nearly every endeavor, is - what is the absolute lowest cost we can do this for? How cheaply can we make a shirt? What are the cheapest possible ingredients we can put into this food? How can we ride the line of making this ''system" (waste collection, transportation etc.) the absolute cheapest we can make it for the end user? And now, after inflation & post-covid price gouging, we now are paying more for these same "cheap" products.

I realize this comes off as the girl that is doing her semester-abroad as a college sophomore, but like I said, this isn't my first rodeo to Europe, and this has just become something that has reached an "impossible to ignore" state.

So, what do you think? Is the - keep prices as low as possible, while sacrificing quality (USA) the best way of doing things, or - should we up the quality, but also pay more for stuff?

P.S. - I realize this could easily fall into a political discussion, that isn't my intention, and in-fact a lot of what I am seeing, doesn't really have much to do with taxes or political systems.

To pull this back to the original post, if I'm understanding you right, you're asking more about a personal decision, right?

Yes, for many products, there is a wide range of quality and pricing.

Say for a t-shirt.

One can buy something at H&M for $6. It'll be understandably low quality and likely won't last very long.

One can buy a medium priced shirt from Comfort Colors for $12 that will be higher quality and last longer.

One can buy a higher priced shirt from Imogene + Willie for $65 that will be even better quality and better material.

The consumer gets to decide. Is that what you're asking?

 

[⚡DEADHEAD⚡]

I've been saying for years that Europe does many, many things better than we do, but no one ever seems to want to hear it.

I feel like that's the majority opinion.

It didnt used to be. Also, depends who you ask. There's still a prevalent attitude that USA is the best in all things, which couldnt be further from the truth.

Jingoism by the inexperienced and misinformed. I have a sense that those who are most strident about the USA being the best at all things are also those who have not had the experience traveling abroad, never mind to a neighboring state.

 

[⚡DEADHEAD⚡]

I've been saying for years that Europe does many, many things better than we do, but no one ever seems to want to hear it.

One of the reasons my wife and I are on a path to becoming expats in the future.

This. It really is eye opening in many ways. I'm in the process of obtaining Spanish citizenship through the grandchildren law with near future plans of moving abroad.

Spain would be great, but their wealth tax would be a pain to operate around.

I believe there is a 4m threshold in Andalusia... (from where I am currently typing this as a resident of Spain.)

Andalusia actually effectively got rid of their wealth tax, but residents would be subject to the (allegedly for 2 years) national level wealth tax that kicks in at 3 million Euros. It seems like the national government is imposing this because of Andalusia and Madrid getting rid of theirs. My sights were more set on the Barcelona/Costa Brava region anyways...

Just spent 5 nights in La Escala (paradise) and settling in for a week in Barcelona (Formula One race this weekend and the city is a bit of a mess).

 

[Joe Bryant]

I've been saying for years that Europe does many, many things better than we do, but no one ever seems to want to hear it.

I feel like that's the majority opinion.

It didnt used to be. Also, depends who you ask. There's still a prevalent attitude that USA is the best in all things, which couldnt be further from the truth.

Jingoism by the inexperienced and misinformed. I have a sense that those who are most strident about the USA being the best at all things are also those who have not had the experience traveling abroad, never mind to a neighboring state.

I'm not sure. As I said earlier, I don't think "Europe does many, many things better than we do" is a minority opinion.

 

[Acrobat7]

I've been saying for years that Europe does many, many things better than we do, but no one ever seems to want to hear it.

I feel like that's the majority opinion.

It didnt used to be. Also, depends who you ask. There's still a prevalent attitude that USA is the best in all things, which couldnt be further from the truth.

Jingoism by the inexperienced and misinformed. I have a sense that those who are most strident about the USA being the best at all things are also those who have not had the experience traveling abroad, never mind to a neighboring state.

I'm not sure. As I said earlier, I don't think "Europe does many, many things better than we do" is a minority opinion.

“Europe“ is also rather large and diverse. Things differ greatly from, let’s say Iceland to Portugal to Bulgaria.

 

[Joe Bryant]

I've been saying for years that Europe does many, many things better than we do, but no one ever seems to want to hear it.

I feel like that's the majority opinion.

It didnt used to be. Also, depends who you ask. There's still a prevalent attitude that USA is the best in all things, which couldnt be further from the truth.

Jingoism by the inexperienced and misinformed. I have a sense that those who are most strident about the USA being the best at all things are also those who have not had the experience traveling abroad, never mind to a neighboring state.

I'm not sure. As I said earlier, I don't think "Europe does many, many things better than we do" is a minority opinion.

“Europe“ is also rather large and diverse. Things differ greatly from, let’s say Iceland to Portugal to Bulgaria.

Absolutely.

 

[Atomic Punk]

“Europe“ is also rather large and diverse. Things differ greatly from, let’s say Iceland to Portugal to Bulgaria.

I don’t think is too different than the US … how similar are NY, Texas and ND?

 

[⚡DEADHEAD⚡]

Somewhere in here a quality of life measure exists, and though I don't have any data at my fingertips, I estimate that the quality of life variance is very, very vast across the population in the U.S., where some communities are severely disenfranchised, others struggle, and others are comfortable, still others are upper class, and still others are rich if not wealthy. Though this exists in Europe too, I think the hump in the bell curve is where most exist comfortably, maybe ~90% (a guess) live in a narrow economic range, with common interests, purchasing habits, societal desires, etc. Very homogenous, perhaps too much so for some.

I am convinced that income disparity is our Achilles heel. I'm all for capitalism, but gains should be reasonable, measured, and responsible. The income disparity is massive compared to what it was 40 years ago.

We were the greatest country in the world on many fronts. We're not anymore, though we do still excel at a few things. Thing is we did it to ourselves. We got greedy, and stopped taking care of our own, and we're paying a price for it now.

My son got a haircut in Zaragoza for 7 euros last week. We picked a barber on a street where there were 10 barbers within 200 yards. Legit barbers. It took 30-ish minutes and was the best haircut he's ever had (included some straight razor action for cleanup). In the U.S. I pay $45 for an average haircut for him and so he goes 2-3 months between cuts. He'd get a cut every two weeks if we lived here.

I've eaten 2 dozen eggs in the last two weeks. They're that good and they cost about $3/dozen. Don't get me started on ski passes.

 

[Joe Bryant]

Somewhere in here a quality of life measure exists, and though I don't have any data at my fingertips, I estimate that the quality of life variance is very, very vast across the population in the U.S., where some communities are severely disenfranchised, others struggle, and others are comfortable, still others are upper class, and still others are rich if not wealthy. Though this exists in Europe too, I think the hump in the bell curve is where most exist comfortably, maybe ~90% (a guess) live in a narrow economic range, with common interests, purchasing habits, societal desires, etc. Very homogenous, perhaps too much so for some.

I am convinced that income disparity is our Achilles heel. I'm all for capitalism, but gains should be reasonable, measured, and responsible. The income disparity is massive compared to what it was 40 years ago.

We were the greatest country in the world on many fronts. We're not anymore, though we do still excel at a few things. Thing is we did it to ourselves. We got greedy, and stopped taking care of our own, and we're paying a price for it now.

My son got a haircut in Zaragoza for 7 euros last week. We picked a barber on a street where there were 10 barbers within 200 yards. Legit barbers. It took 30-ish minutes and was the best haircut he's ever had (included some straight razor action for cleanup). In the U.S. I pay $45 for an average haircut for him and so he goes 2-3 months between cuts. He'd get a cut every two weeks if we lived here.

I've eaten 2 dozen eggs in the last two weeks. They're that good and they cost about $3/dozen. Don't get me started on ski passes.

Agreed that income disparity is a problem in the US.

I too found prices to be inexpensive when I was in Portugal. A 15 minute Bolt (Uber) ride across town was 5 euro.

For the 7 euro haircut, I find it interesting a barber can live on wage that's at best 14 euros an hour. And that's without him paying a penny to rent the chair or the shop owner taking a cut.

That, to me, is a more interesting question.

 

[Mitchie]

We have become all about satisfying the shareholders.

No longer is it about taking care of your employees and your suppliers.
It's about making the board happy and doing whatever it takes to make that happen.

Guess the solution would be to invest in the S&P 500 and buy high quality stuff with the proceeds.

 

[Terminalxylem]

We have become all about satisfying the shareholders.

No longer is it about taking care of your employees and your suppliers.
It's about making the board happy and doing whatever it takes to make that happen.

Guess the solution would be to invest in the S&P 500 and buy high quality stuff with the proceeds.

That's a solution, but it may be better to recalibrate societal priorities.

 

[Mitchie]

We have become all about satisfying the shareholders.

No longer is it about taking care of your employees and your suppliers.
It's about making the board happy and doing whatever it takes to make that happen.

Guess the solution would be to invest in the S&P 500 and buy high quality stuff with the proceeds.

That's a solution, but it may be better to recalibrate societal priorities.

Oh sure, but let's be honest that ain't happening anytime soon

 

[Nugget]

America and Europe are equally poor - article gets a little political at the end, but I thought there were many good comparisons.

 

[⚡DEADHEAD⚡]

For the 7 euro haircut, I find it interesting a barber can live on wage that's at best 14 euros an hour. And that's without him paying a penny to rent the chair or the shop owner taking a cut.

That, to me, is a more interesting question.

I wondered that too. The men's haircuts were 9 euro. That's gotta be it, right? There was obviously tight competition in the area so prices have to be low, but cost of living in Zaragoza seemed on the lower side too.

That said, I'm in Barcelona now. Haircuts aren't much more here. And when I walk by these places, they're rarely full. I wonder if there's some social program they get to leverage.

 

[Acrobat7]

“Europe“ is also rather large and diverse. Things differ greatly from, let’s say Iceland to Portugal to Bulgaria.

I don’t think is too different than the US … how similar are NY, Texas and ND?

I 100% agree. I simply wanted to highlight the generalization of Europe that was going on here a bit.
As a saying goes: „100 years is a lot in the US and 100 miles is not. In Europe it is the other way around.“

 

[IvanKaramazov]

“Europe“ is also rather large and diverse. Things differ greatly from, let’s say Iceland to Portugal to Bulgaria.

I don’t think is too different than the US … how similar are NY, Texas and ND?

Yep. And let's be honest. Part of the reason why people like to argue about the US vs. Europe so much is because, relative to the rest of the world, the US and Europe are pretty much the same. They're both big continents with lots of geographic and cultural diversity. They're both made up of a bunch of democratic states that allow free travel and trade across their borders. Those states share a common currency and have common fiscal and monetary policies. They both trace their cultural traditions back to Athens and Jerusalem, and our literary and musical canons are the same. Both are capitalist.

None of us would have any serious problem moving to the EU and assimilating. We would have a much harder time doing so in Japan or Korea.

The differences between the US and Europe are really just differences in degree, but people try really hard to make them out to be differences in kind. The economic systems of the US and EU can both be accurately described as "managed capitalism." The EU emphasizes the "managed" part more and we emphasize the "capitalism" part more, but it's the same system with the dial turned a little bit. Both are first-world regions. We have more free trade among the 50 states than the EU has between member nations, and our central government is stronger than theirs, but it's worth noting the the EU is basically an enterprise devoted to making Europe more like the United States. It's a different spin on the same idea. Being multilingual pays off in Europe a lot more than it does here, but English is the common tongue, to put it in D&D terms.

Especially in retirement, it makes sense that people would put a lot of emphasis on "lifestyle" issues. It's very appealing to live in a community surrounded by like-minded people who share your values. For some people, that means The Villages. For others, that means Europe. It's cool that we have a choice.

 

[AAABatteries]

the US and Europe are pretty much the same. They're both big continents

I know what you meant but the geography nerd in me just got all twitchy.

 

[massraider]

That's a solution, but it may be better to recalibrate societal priorities.

It's going in the opposite direction, and faster, IMO.
People like buying stuff. It's a very unifying phenomenon here in the US.

They like getting packages, they like ordering online, and getting a 'deal'. TEMU, Shein, Alibaba, H+M, and on and on.

Videos where you watch someone else buy stuff gets thousands of views.

 

[AAABatteries]

Especially in retirement, it makes sense that people would put a lot of emphasis on "lifestyle" issues. It's very appealing to live in a community surrounded by like-minded people who share your values. For some people, that means The Villages. For others, that means Europe. It's cool that we have a choice.

Tangent - it’s funny about the Villages. It seems to me to attempt to give folks the “best” of the US and EU models for lifestyle. You get the community and some concepts around not needing to drive but most of the car driving is replaced by golf carts. It’s a community but is so large and spread out like most of the US. People still value their privacy and space down there. I can see both the appeal of the Villages and also how some would absolutely hate it.

 

[IvanKaramazov]

the US and Europe are pretty much the same. They're both big continents

I know what you meant but the geography nerd in me just got all twitchy.

LOL. I should have gone with "span a continent" or something.

 

[Joe Bryant]

I find it interesting that a common criticism of the US is that people like things to be inexpensive and it should not be about low prices and that we should be more like Europe.

Where an Uber driver makes 5 euro for a 15 minute ride and a barber makes 7 euro for a 30 minute haircut.

 

[McBokonon]

I find it interesting that a common criticism of the US is that people like things to be inexpensive and it should not be about low prices and that we should be more like Europe.

Where an Uber driver makes 5 euro for a 15 minute ride and a barber makes 7 euro for a 30 minute haircut.

Things <> Services

 

[Atomic Punk]

“Europe“ is also rather large and diverse. Things differ greatly from, let’s say Iceland to Portugal to Bulgaria.

I don’t think is too different than the US … how similar are NY, Texas and ND?

Yep. And let's be honest. Part of the reason why people like to argue about the US vs. Europe so much is because, relative to the rest of the world, the US and Europe are pretty much the same. They're both big continents with lots of geographic and cultural diversity. They're both made up of a bunch of democratic states that allow free travel and trade across their borders. Those states share a common currency and have common fiscal and monetary policies. They both trace their cultural traditions back to Athens and Jerusalem, and our literary and musical canons are the same. Both are capitalist.

None of us would have any serious problem moving to the EU and assimilating. We would have a much harder time doing so in Japan or Korea.

The differences between the US and Europe are really just differences in degree, but people try really hard to make them out to be differences in kind. The economic systems of the US and EU can both be accurately described as "managed capitalism." The EU emphasizes the "managed" part more and we emphasize the "capitalism" part more, but it's the same system with the dial turned a little bit. Both are first-world regions. We have more free trade among the 50 states than the EU has between member nations, and our central government is stronger than theirs, but it's worth noting the the EU is basically an enterprise devoted to making Europe more like the United States. It's a different spin on the same idea. Being multilingual pays off in Europe a lot more than it does here, but English is the common tongue, to put it in D&D terms.

Especially in retirement, it makes sense that people would put a lot of emphasis on "lifestyle" issues. It's very appealing to live in a community surrounded by like-minded people who share your values. For some people, that means The Villages. For others, that means Europe. It's cool that we have a choice.

Great summary @IvanKaramazov and spot on IMO. Despite all of the similarities you note, those few degrees still make a significant difference and lead to these type of discussions and even some angst amongst Americans when some suggest the preference for the EU.

I liken it to working for two different organizations. They may sell similar goods/services and be similar in size and scope, but the culture in one versus the other is what drives people toward one over the other. It isn’t that one is better, it’s just a better fit for a particular individual.

 

[Brony]

“Europe“ is also rather large and diverse. Things differ greatly from, let’s say Iceland to Portugal to Bulgaria.

I don’t think is too different than the US … how similar are NY, Texas and ND?

Yep. And let's be honest. Part of the reason why people like to argue about the US vs. Europe so much is because, relative to the rest of the world, the US and Europe are pretty much the same. They're both big continents with lots of geographic and cultural diversity. They're both made up of a bunch of democratic states that allow free travel and trade across their borders. Those states share a common currency and have common fiscal and monetary policies. They both trace their cultural traditions back to Athens and Jerusalem, and our literary and musical canons are the same. Both are capitalist.

None of us would have any serious problem moving to the EU and assimilating. We would have a much harder time doing so in Japan or Korea.

The differences between the US and Europe are really just differences in degree, but people try really hard to make them out to be differences in kind. The economic systems of the US and EU can both be accurately described as "managed capitalism." The EU emphasizes the "managed" part more and we emphasize the "capitalism" part more, but it's the same system with the dial turned a little bit. Both are first-world regions. We have more free trade among the 50 states than the EU has between member nations, and our central government is stronger than theirs, but it's worth noting the the EU is basically an enterprise devoted to making Europe more like the United States. It's a different spin on the same idea. Being multilingual pays off in Europe a lot more than it does here, but English is the common tongue, to put it in D&D terms.

Especially in retirement, it makes sense that people would put a lot of emphasis on "lifestyle" issues. It's very appealing to live in a community surrounded by like-minded people who share your values. For some people, that means The Villages. For others, that means Europe. It's cool that we have a choice.

Great summary @IvanKaramazov and spot on IMO. Despite all of the similarities you note, those few degrees still make a significant difference and lead to these type of discussions and even some angst amongst Americans when some suggest the preference for the EU.

I liken it to working for two different organizations. They may sell similar goods/services and be similar in size and scope, but the culture in one versus the other is what drives people toward one over the other. It isn’t that one is better, it’s just a better fit for a particular individual.

I blame Michael J Fox and the Secret of My Success

seems like the 80s is when the concept really took off that your self worth was tied to how much money you made. That money = success allows capitalism to do its worst. 40 years later, you still find people to have their careers define their lives in the US as the most common icebreaker is "What do you do for a living?". It all starts with a mindset and I still blame Michael J Fox.

 

[AAABatteries]

“Europe“ is also rather large and diverse. Things differ greatly from, let’s say Iceland to Portugal to Bulgaria.

I don’t think is too different than the US … how similar are NY, Texas and ND?

Yep. And let's be honest. Part of the reason why people like to argue about the US vs. Europe so much is because, relative to the rest of the world, the US and Europe are pretty much the same. They're both big continents with lots of geographic and cultural diversity. They're both made up of a bunch of democratic states that allow free travel and trade across their borders. Those states share a common currency and have common fiscal and monetary policies. They both trace their cultural traditions back to Athens and Jerusalem, and our literary and musical canons are the same. Both are capitalist.

None of us would have any serious problem moving to the EU and assimilating. We would have a much harder time doing so in Japan or Korea.

The differences between the US and Europe are really just differences in degree, but people try really hard to make them out to be differences in kind. The economic systems of the US and EU can both be accurately described as "managed capitalism." The EU emphasizes the "managed" part more and we emphasize the "capitalism" part more, but it's the same system with the dial turned a little bit. Both are first-world regions. We have more free trade among the 50 states than the EU has between member nations, and our central government is stronger than theirs, but it's worth noting the the EU is basically an enterprise devoted to making Europe more like the United States. It's a different spin on the same idea. Being multilingual pays off in Europe a lot more than it does here, but English is the common tongue, to put it in D&D terms.

Especially in retirement, it makes sense that people would put a lot of emphasis on "lifestyle" issues. It's very appealing to live in a community surrounded by like-minded people who share your values. For some people, that means The Villages. For others, that means Europe. It's cool that we have a choice.

Great summary @IvanKaramazov and spot on IMO. Despite all of the similarities you note, those few degrees still make a significant difference and lead to these type of discussions and even some angst amongst Americans when some suggest the preference for the EU.

I liken it to working for two different organizations. They may sell similar goods/services and be similar in size and scope, but the culture in one versus the other is what drives people toward one over the other. It isn’t that one is better, it’s just a better fit for a particular individual.

I blame Michael J Fox and the Secret of My Success

seems like the 80s is when the concept really took off that your self worth was tied to how much money you made. That money = success allows capitalism to do its worst. 40 years later, you still find people to have their careers define their lives in the US as the most common icebreaker is "What do you do for a living?". It all starts with a mindset and I still blame Michael J Fox.

I’m assuming this is tongue in cheek but interesting you didn’t go with a movie from the same year - ”Greed is Good” and our buddy @GordonGekko.

 

[Raging weasel]

modern sets should be cheaply-made and get replaced every 4-5 years.

our newest TV is 5 years old. The one upstairs is slightly older than my 13yo son.

TV's seem to fair well for longevity. Fridge's on the other hand seem to be a lot less reliable than they used to be. I had my garage fridge for 25 years and really only got rid of it because it was sucking power to run. My current fridge I have had to replace the ice maker already and it was about 5 yrs old when it went out.

My work office fridge was from 1957 and working fine,other than the freezer, when they replaced it 2 years ago due to the power suck. The fridge in the student lounge has been replaced twice in the last 12 years.

 

[Cowboysfan8]

Videos where you watch someone else buy stuff gets thousands of views.

Uh…what’s this now??

 

[The Z Machine]

When we were in high school, the US and EU had similar living standards. That isn't the case today.

Can you share your opinion on the differences in living standards between EU and the US? Or are you assuming "living standards" = GDP / capita?

 

[MTskibum]

When we were in high school, the US and EU had similar living standards. That isn't the case today.

Can you share your opinion on the differences in living standards between EU and the US? Or are you assuming "living standards" = GDP / capita?

Not only that, but standards of living in different income brackets. The mid career professional almost certainly does better in the US, however the old poor retired person or life long clerk at a grocery store has a better standard of living than the equivalent person in the US.

Plus if anyone was from a place like Jackson, Mississippi or Farmington, New Mexico they they probably argue Europe has a much higher standard of living.