What's new
Fantasy Football - Footballguys Forums

This is a sample guest message. Register a free account today to become a member! Once signed in, you'll be able to participate on this site by adding your own topics and posts, as well as connect with other members through your own private inbox!

Quality vs. Price - Is the USA doing it correctly? (1 Viewer)

I find it interesting that a common criticism of the US is that people like things to be inexpensive and it should not be about low prices and that we should be more like Europe.

Where an Uber driver makes 5 euro for a 15 minute ride and a barber makes 7 euro for a 30 minute haircut.

Things <> Services

Of course.

But people talk about both.

Someone mentioned above how cheap eggs were in Europe.

I find it interesting that a common criticism of the US is that people like things to be inexpensive and it should not be about low prices and that we should be more like Europe.

Where eggs are a dozen for 3 euro.
 
I've been saying for years that Europe does many, many things better than we do, but no one ever seems to want to hear it.

:confused: I feel like that's the majority opinion.
Because it’s mostly true.

On the food weight ozempic front, when my wife and I last went to Italy we both ate and drank like royalty. I gained zero weight, my wife lost weight. We’re both very active. My wife is a yoga stud. Other than walking about we didn’t exercise at all. 2 week trip. The main reason, better quality food with No additives.
Agreed with the increased walking. Although admittedly I'm on vacation and walking to sites and destinations is a large part of that, it still feels like more walking is more a part of life there (at least where I've visited).
 
When we were in high school, the US and EU had similar living standards. That isn't the case today.
Can you share your opinion on the differences in living standards between EU and the US? Or are you assuming "living standards" = GDP / capita?

Not only that, but standards of living in different income brackets. The mid career professional almost certainly does better in the US, however the old poor retired person or life long clerk at a grocery store has a better standard of living than the equivalent person in the US.

Plus if anyone was from a place like Jackson, Mississippi or Farmington, New Mexico they they probably argue Europe has a much higher standard of living.

No idea how accurate but poverty rates by country are interesting here https://worldpopulationreview.com/country-rankings/poverty-rate-by-country

US is 18%
Italy is 20.1%
Spain is 20.4%
United Kingdom is 18.6%
 
When we were in high school, the US and EU had similar living standards. That isn't the case today.
Can you share your opinion on the differences in living standards between EU and the US? Or are you assuming "living standards" = GDP / capita?

Not only that, but standards of living in different income brackets. The mid career professional almost certainly does better in the US, however the old poor retired person or life long clerk at a grocery store has a better standard of living than the equivalent person in the US.

Plus if anyone was from a place like Jackson, Mississippi or Farmington, New Mexico they they probably argue Europe has a much higher standard of living.

No idea how accurate but poverty rates by country are interesting here https://worldpopulationreview.com/country-rankings/poverty-rate-by-country

US is 18%
Italy is 20.1%
Spain is 20.4%
United Kingdom is 18.6%

Those stats may be true, but that does not necessarily make them meaningful. If someone makes less than the poverty threshhold so that they are counted by that index, but then has other societal factors to help them out that are not income related. Then they may be doing better.

The fact that we are so close to spain and italy though is kind of disheartening.
 
I've been saying for years that Europe does many, many things better than we do, but no one ever seems to want to hear it.

:confused: I feel like that's the majority opinion.
Because it’s mostly true.

On the food weight ozempic front, when my wife and I last went to Italy we both ate and drank like royalty. I gained zero weight, my wife lost weight. We’re both very active. My wife is a yoga stud. Other than walking about we didn’t exercise at all. 2 week trip. The main reason, better quality food with No additives.
Agreed with the increased walking. Although admittedly I'm on vacation and walking to sites and destinations is a large part of that, it still feels like more walking is more a part of life there (at least where I've visited).
This is one of the few places where "US vs. Europe" is actually more a difference in kind than degree. US cities just aren't walkable, period. Manhattan and parts of Chicago stand as exceptions to that, but you're relying on a car to navigate pretty much any other US city, regardless of size. I don't know that that's true for any major city in Europe. Obviously there might be a few like that, by by and large they are navigable on foot or on bike, and their public transit is much better when a bike won't cut it.

It's fun to theorize about why that's the case, but if you're choosing a place to live, it doesn't matter why. It just matters that that's how it is.
 
I've been saying for years that Europe does many, many things better than we do, but no one ever seems to want to hear it.

:confused: I feel like that's the majority opinion.
Because it’s mostly true.

On the food weight ozempic front, when my wife and I last went to Italy we both ate and drank like royalty. I gained zero weight, my wife lost weight. We’re both very active. My wife is a yoga stud. Other than walking about we didn’t exercise at all. 2 week trip. The main reason, better quality food with No additives.
Agreed with the increased walking. Although admittedly I'm on vacation and walking to sites and destinations is a large part of that, it still feels like more walking is more a part of life there (at least where I've visited).
Agreed. But on our part the increase in walking was negligible. We both walk over 11k/day on average
 
That's a solution, but it may be better to recalibrate societal priorities.
It's going in the opposite direction, and faster, IMO.
People like buying stuff. It's a very unifying phenomenon here in the US.

They like getting packages, they like ordering online, and getting a 'deal'. TEMU, Shein, Alibaba, H+M, and on and on.

Videos where you watch someone else buy stuff gets thousands of views.
You’re right. But let me remind you, smoking was once cool, too.
 
I find it interesting that a common criticism of the US is that people like things to be inexpensive and it should not be about low prices and that we should be more like Europe.

Where an Uber driver makes 5 euro for a 15 minute ride and a barber makes 7 euro for a 30 minute haircut.
Eggs in Europe are inexpensive.
Eggs in the U.S. are cheap.

Inexpensive suggests some quality is maintained.
Cheap suggests quality is sacrificed.

That's the main difference.
 
I find it interesting that a common criticism of the US is that people like things to be inexpensive and it should not be about low prices and that we should be more like Europe.

Where an Uber driver makes 5 euro for a 15 minute ride and a barber makes 7 euro for a 30 minute haircut.
Eggs in Europe are inexpensive.
Eggs in the U.S. are cheap.

Inexpensive suggests some quality is maintained.
Cheap suggests quality is sacrificed.

That's the main difference.

My Uber/Bolt rides in Europe were exactly the same quality as those I get in the US.

No difference.

Except they cost much less in Europe. And I wonder how a Uber/Bolt driver makes it work using their car and buying gas and making 5 euro for a 15 minute ride.

And I think it's interesting that kind of thing is seen as criticism for the US. But not Europe.
 
That's a solution, but it may be better to recalibrate societal priorities.
It's going in the opposite direction, and faster, IMO.
People like buying stuff. It's a very unifying phenomenon here in the US.

They like getting packages, they like ordering online, and getting a 'deal'. TEMU, Shein, Alibaba, H+M, and on and on.

Videos where you watch someone else buy stuff gets thousands of views.
You’re right. But let me remind you, smoking was once cool, too.

True. Maybe there is hope.
 
I find it interesting that a common criticism of the US is that people like things to be inexpensive and it should not be about low prices and that we should be more like Europe.

Where an Uber driver makes 5 euro for a 15 minute ride and a barber makes 7 euro for a 30 minute haircut.
Eggs in Europe are inexpensive.
Eggs in the U.S. are cheap.

Inexpensive suggests some quality is maintained.
Cheap suggests quality is sacrificed.

That's the main difference.

My Uber/Bolt rides in Europe were exactly the same quality as those I get in the US.

No difference.

Except they cost much less in Europe. And I wonder how a Uber/Bolt driver makes it work using their car and buying gas and making 5 euro for a 15 minute ride.

And I think it's interesting that kind of thing is seen as criticism for the US. But not Europe.
As someone mentioned, products vs. services. An Uber ride in the U.S. vs Europe? The quality of that service has no range really. Whether taxi, Uber/Lyft, metro, bus, the question largely is...did you arrive or not? Also, we don't know how a $5 ride in the U.S. vs. a 5 Euro ride in Europe breaks down. What goes to the driver vs. what goes to the city, county, state, etc., never mind some tax or another that may result in each driver taking home roughly similar take-home pay, assuming similar costs of living.

The issue, for me, really comes down to products (we excel at services..financial, legal, medical, etc.) I think much of our food is cheap crap, and much of our clothing is cheap crap too, and I blame companies that cut corners to save $.02 on every item sold because when you multiply that x millions of units, you're talking real money. There's little care for betterment, and it's by design, more and more ingrained in our culture. I'm not even sure quality is part of our identity as a country anymore outside of some outlier areas like high tech.
 
The issue, for me, really comes down to products (we excel at services..financial, legal, medical, etc.) I think much of our food is cheap crap, and much of our clothing is cheap crap too, and I blame companies that cut corners to save $.02 on every item sold because when you multiply that x millions of units, you're talking real money. There's little care for betterment, and it's by design, more and more ingrained in our culture. I'm not even sure quality is part of our identity as a country anymore outside of some outlier areas like high tech.

Thanks. I guess I just don't really see the stuff like clothing as if people don't have a choice. I see it as they have tons of choices.

As I described, the person looking for a T-shirt can choose to buy the $6 shirt or the $65 shirt. That's on them. And I think that kind of choice is a good thing.

But it's interesting to see how other people see that differently. Thanks for sharing.
 
“Europe“ is also rather large and diverse. Things differ greatly from, let’s say Iceland to Portugal to Bulgaria.
I don’t think is too different than the US … how similar are NY, Texas and ND?
Yep. And let's be honest. Part of the reason why people like to argue about the US vs. Europe so much is because, relative to the rest of the world, the US and Europe are pretty much the same. They're both big continents with lots of geographic and cultural diversity. They're both made up of a bunch of democratic states that allow free travel and trade across their borders. Those states share a common currency and have common fiscal and monetary policies. They both trace their cultural traditions back to Athens and Jerusalem, and our literary and musical canons are the same. Both are capitalist.

None of us would have any serious problem moving to the EU and assimilating. We would have a much harder time doing so in Japan or Korea.

The differences between the US and Europe are really just differences in degree, but people try really hard to make them out to be differences in kind. The economic systems of the US and EU can both be accurately described as "managed capitalism." The EU emphasizes the "managed" part more and we emphasize the "capitalism" part more, but it's the same system with the dial turned a little bit. Both are first-world regions. We have more free trade among the 50 states than the EU has between member nations, and our central government is stronger than theirs, but it's worth noting the the EU is basically an enterprise devoted to making Europe more like the United States. It's a different spin on the same idea. Being multilingual pays off in Europe a lot more than it does here, but English is the common tongue, to put it in D&D terms.

Especially in retirement, it makes sense that people would put a lot of emphasis on "lifestyle" issues. It's very appealing to live in a community surrounded by like-minded people who share your values. For some people, that means The Villages. For others, that means Europe. It's cool that we have a choice.
Partially true, but the differences are still stark, IMO. National identity in Europe is still very, very strong across Europe, so any sort of Euro-wide assimilation doesn't exist and won't for generations. In addition to language and history, sports are a huge driving factor actually. Rivalries are strong at a national level, and that's cherished. Nobody flies the EU flag in front of their house.

And what is "Europe" anyway? Several countries aren't part of the EU (Brexit), some aren't part of NATO, still others maintain their own currency, some don't have an open border. And some want in and aren't allowed. It's not clear what the European identity is.

And we have our own unique challenges that some argue haven't been put to rest and need attention, like our legacy with slavery.

We're similar, driven largely by common ancestry maybe more than anything, but more and more, that's only for a declining portion of our population.
 
Yep. And let's be honest. Part of the reason why people like to argue about the US vs. Europe so much is because, relative to the rest of the world, the US and Europe are pretty much the same. They're both big continents with lots of geographic and cultural diversity. They're both made up of a bunch of democratic states that allow free travel and trade across their borders. Those states share a common currency and have common fiscal and monetary policies. They both trace their cultural traditions back to Athens and Jerusalem, and our literary and musical canons are the same. Both are capitalist.

None of us would have any serious problem moving to the EU and assimilating. We would have a much harder time doing so in Japan or Korea.

The differences between the US and Europe are really just differences in degree, but people try really hard to make them out to be differences in kind. The economic systems of the US and EU can both be accurately described as "managed capitalism." The EU emphasizes the "managed" part more and we emphasize the "capitalism" part more, but it's the same system with the dial turned a little bit. Both are first-world regions. We have more free trade among the 50 states than the EU has between member nations, and our central government is stronger than theirs, but it's worth noting the the EU is basically an enterprise devoted to making Europe more like the United States. It's a different spin on the same idea. Being multilingual pays off in Europe a lot more than it does here, but English is the common tongue, to put it in D&D terms.

Especially in retirement, it makes sense that people would put a lot of emphasis on "lifestyle" issues. It's very appealing to live in a community surrounded by like-minded people who share your values. For some people, that means The Villages. For others, that means Europe. It's cool that we have a choice.

:goodposting:
 
The issue, for me, really comes down to products (we excel at services..financial, legal, medical, etc.) I think much of our food is cheap crap, and much of our clothing is cheap crap too, and I blame companies that cut corners to save $.02 on every item sold because when you multiply that x millions of units, you're talking real money. There's little care for betterment, and it's by design, more and more ingrained in our culture. I'm not even sure quality is part of our identity as a country anymore outside of some outlier areas like high tech.

Thanks. I guess I just don't really see the stuff like clothing as if people don't have a choice. I see it as they have tons of choices.

As I described, the person looking for a T-shirt can choose to buy the $6 shirt or the $65 shirt. That's on them. And I think that kind of choice is a good thing.

But it's interesting to see how other people see that differently. Thanks for sharing.
I think it's more along the lines of the $6 shirt you get in the U.S. is a cheap shirt, whereas the 6 Euro shirt you get in Europe is an inexpensive shirt of some modest quality. Extreme example, I know.

Put more simply, and staying away from eggs, the bread and milk costs little and is significantly higher quality. (As a Californian, I might argue our produce is better).

An issue also worth noting is accessibility. Walk through the streets of major European cities and there's nothing but small store fronts for miles, even on the bottom floor of 10 and 20 story buildings, never mind back in residential neighborhoods. Inexpensive, good food is at your fingertips. In our most impoverished communities, fast food is the accessible food of choice. That, too, is something corporate America has leveraged to maximize profit.
 
I find it interesting that a common criticism of the US is that people like things to be inexpensive and it should not be about low prices and that we should be more like Europe.

Where an Uber driver makes 5 euro for a 15 minute ride and a barber makes 7 euro for a 30 minute haircut.
Eggs in Europe are inexpensive.
Eggs in the U.S. are cheap.

Inexpensive suggests some quality is maintained.
Cheap suggests quality is sacrificed.

That's the main difference.

My Uber/Bolt rides in Europe were exactly the same quality as those I get in the US.

No difference.

Except they cost much less in Europe. And I wonder how a Uber/Bolt driver makes it work using their car and buying gas and making 5 euro for a 15 minute ride.

And I think it's interesting that kind of thing is seen as criticism for the US. But not Europe.
Maybe it’s because the social safety net in Europe is more extensive (eg. Healthcare), such that paying less for menial tasks isn’t considered problematic. In other words, it’s easier to live on lower wages in Europe.
 

Users who are viewing this thread

Back
Top