Question for the critics of NE and Dallas (1 Viewer)

[rabidfireweasel]

I have read a bunch of posts where people have criticized NE and Dallas for not having a better back up QB. While on the surface, it makes sense, what is the solution? First, there really aren't that many quality QB's in the league. A number of teams have mediocre starting QB's. Most teams that have run out a back up QB have brought out someone like Damon Huard, Seneca Wallace, Gus Frerotte, etc. I heard mention that the teams should have gpne after Pennington, but Pennington wasn't going to go be a back-up. He wanted a starting job. Additionally, Dallas and NE can't spend a ton of money here (neither can Indy, Pittsburgh etc-) because they already have a ton of cap space tied up there.

So, while I have heard about the need to have a better back up QB- who/where are these guys that Dallas and NE should have gotten? JT O'Sullivan, the fumbling Machine? David Carr, who failed with Carolina last year and got beaten out by Testaverde? It seems to me like quality backup QB is a myth.

 

[Statler & Waldorf]

Cassell is coming along fine so I think NE is fine. I was against him at first as well and wanted the Pats to trade for Garcia, but the way the team has played the past couple of weeks has been very encouraging. As of right now, in regards to the back up situation, I wouldn't change anything.

 

[SeniorVBDStudent]

I have read a bunch of posts where people have criticized NE and Dallas for not having a better back up QB. While on the surface, it makes sense, what is the solution? First, there really aren't that many quality QB's in the league. A number of teams have mediocre starting QB's. Most teams that have run out a back up QB have brought out someone like Damon Huard, Seneca Wallace, Gus Frerotte, etc. I heard mention that the teams should have gpne after Pennington, but Pennington wasn't going to go be a back-up. He wanted a starting job. Additionally, Dallas and NE can't spend a ton of money here (neither can Indy, Pittsburgh etc-) because they already have a ton of cap space tied up there.So, while I have heard about the need to have a better back up QB- who/where are these guys that Dallas and NE should have gotten? JT O'Sullivan, the fumbling Machine? David Carr, who failed with Carolina last year and got beaten out by Testaverde? It seems to me like quality backup QB is a myth.

A key difference was NE being criticized for not having a savvy veteran like, say, Brad Johnson. In fact, BB was labelled an arrogant idiot for believing in Cassel and/or believing the Pats could succeed with Cassel. Romo will be back soon; which is a shame, because we won't be able to compare Cassel's late season performance with Johnson's.

 

[Chicago Hooligan]

Props to Cassell but he's still no Elvis Grbac.

 

[SeniorVBDStudent]

Props to Cassell but he's still no Elvis Grbac.

"I don't even know what this is supposed to be." - Kramer's boss

 

[sho nuff]

I have read a bunch of posts where people have criticized NE and Dallas for not having a better back up QB. While on the surface, it makes sense, what is the solution? First, there really aren't that many quality QB's in the league. A number of teams have mediocre starting QB's. Most teams that have run out a back up QB have brought out someone like Damon Huard, Seneca Wallace, Gus Frerotte, etc. I heard mention that the teams should have gpne after Pennington, but Pennington wasn't going to go be a back-up. He wanted a starting job. Additionally, Dallas and NE can't spend a ton of money here (neither can Indy, Pittsburgh etc-) because they already have a ton of cap space tied up there.So, while I have heard about the need to have a better back up QB- who/where are these guys that Dallas and NE should have gotten? JT O'Sullivan, the fumbling Machine? David Carr, who failed with Carolina last year and got beaten out by Testaverde? It seems to me like quality backup QB is a myth.

A key difference was NE being criticized for not having a savvy veteran like, say, Brad Johnson. In fact, BB was labelled an arrogant idiot for believing in Cassel and/or believing the Pats could succeed with Cassel. Romo will be back soon; which is a shame, because we won't be able to compare Cassel's late season performance with Johnson's.

GB was criticized for the same thing and going with 2 rookies as backups. Sure, Cassel has been in the league longer...but he also had as many starts and about as much playing time as the 2 rooks GB brought in...with the advantage of being in the system for a while though. But the OPs post is close to right on...there simply is not alot of great backups out there to be had anyway.Sure, someone might find a Kerry Collins out there...but for every one of him, there is Brad Johnson, Joey Harrington, David Carr and so on.

 

[baconisgood]

Cassell has been acceptable as a backup and the Pats have taken advantage of a soft scedule to go 5-2. Dallas' problem is that they have no one and nothing moving forward, Brad Johnson is 40 and declining (off a peak which wasn't exactly in the Himalayas to begin with). He has little to no chance to improve and probably would have been just as effective if they had called him off his couch after Romo went down.

 

[Mustang Man]

I have read a bunch of posts where people have criticized NE and Dallas for not having a better back up QB. While on the surface, it makes sense, what is the solution? First, there really aren't that many quality QB's in the league. A number of teams have mediocre starting QB's. Most teams that have run out a back up QB have brought out someone like Damon Huard, Seneca Wallace, Gus Frerotte, etc. I heard mention that the teams should have gpne after Pennington, but Pennington wasn't going to go be a back-up. He wanted a starting job. Additionally, Dallas and NE can't spend a ton of money here (neither can Indy, Pittsburgh etc-) because they already have a ton of cap space tied up there.So, while I have heard about the need to have a better back up QB- who/where are these guys that Dallas and NE should have gotten? JT O'Sullivan, the fumbling Machine? David Carr, who failed with Carolina last year and got beaten out by Testaverde? It seems to me like quality backup QB is a myth.

Good topic, being a Dallas fan it was talked about in the off season that they need a better BU QB for this situation exactly. Not sure who they could have got but at least get a qb that can make some down field throws. All the talent they have is being wasted for 3 games this ear with Romo out and will probably have 2 losses because of it. Having someone like a Kerry Collins and Dallas would be in a lot better shape. Not sure what Tenn paid to get Collins but man that saved their season.

 

[sho nuff]

I have read a bunch of posts where people have criticized NE and Dallas for not having a better back up QB. While on the surface, it makes sense, what is the solution? First, there really aren't that many quality QB's in the league. A number of teams have mediocre starting QB's. Most teams that have run out a back up QB have brought out someone like Damon Huard, Seneca Wallace, Gus Frerotte, etc. I heard mention that the teams should have gpne after Pennington, but Pennington wasn't going to go be a back-up. He wanted a starting job. Additionally, Dallas and NE can't spend a ton of money here (neither can Indy, Pittsburgh etc-) because they already have a ton of cap space tied up there.So, while I have heard about the need to have a better back up QB- who/where are these guys that Dallas and NE should have gotten? JT O'Sullivan, the fumbling Machine? David Carr, who failed with Carolina last year and got beaten out by Testaverde? It seems to me like quality backup QB is a myth.

Good topic, being a Dallas fan it was talked about in the off season that they need a better BU QB for this situation exactly. Not sure who they could have got but at least get a qb that can make some down field throws. All the talent they have is being wasted for 3 games this ear with Romo out and will probably have 2 losses because of it. Having someone like a Kerry Collins and Dallas would be in a lot better shape. Not sure what Tenn paid to get Collins but man that saved their season.

They got him prior to last season because not many wanted him.They ended up starting him the first few games last year, and he was not that good and they were losing...so Vince started the rest of the year really. Collins came in a few times and played well.But I don't think many expected he would play like he has so far this year.And I believe he will be a free agent after this year and has said he does not just want to be a backup.

 

[stevegamer]

Leftwich & Culpepper were readily available at the start of the year, and both would've been better fits than Johnson, they would've had more upside due to youth, and can make more downfield throws - so there's less offensive changes. Dallas blew this more than New England, who were comfortable with their guy who has been in the system.

Cincy also has it bad - but they are cheap, and should simply be expected to tink every year.

 

[T Bell]

The NE and Dallas backup QB situations couldn't be more different. Cassell is a young guy who has been the understudy there for several years, knows the offense thoroughly, and simply needs playing time to mature further as a QB. He's receiving on-the-job training, and his growth is noticeable. All Cassell required was some patience while he went through his growing pains as a new starter. I'm actually amazed at how much confidence and patience Belichick has exercised with Cassell, but it's certainly been well-placed.

Brad Johnson is a poor fit in that offense because of his weak arm anyway, but he's clearly out of his depth in the NFL anymore as a QB and is if anything declining further. How the Cowboys decided that Johnson was an adequate backup is hard to fathom.

If anything, while Cassell has nowhere near his talent level, he resembles Romo circa 2006 far more than he does Brad Johnson circa 2008.

 

[tombonneau]

Great post. As a Pats fan, I wasn't all that upset about the backup QB situation, simply because the reality you point out. I had to mention this on a Pats board when Brady went down; there are 32 STARTING QBs in the league, never mind quality backups.

I don't think the Cassel move would have generated as much skepticism/criticism save for the fact he never started in college (kind of a big deal, I know.)

Ultimately, I think the only realistic way to go about having a good backup QB is to draft someone in the mid-rounds and groom him in your system. This is what Wolf did in GB for years and is what BB is doing in NE. You just have to hope you hit it with one of the kids. Otherwise, your options are the David Carr's of the world.

 

[Tyrion]

The NE and Dallas backup QB situations couldn't be more different. Cassell is a young guy who has been the understudy there for several years, knows the offense thoroughly, and simply needs playing time to mature further as a QB. He's receiving on-the-job training, and his growth is noticeable. All Cassell required was some patience while he went through his growing pains as a new starter. I'm actually amazed at how much confidence and patience Belichick has exercised with Cassell, but it's certainly been well-placed.

Brad Johnson is a poor fit in that offense because of his weak arm anyway, but he's clearly out of his depth in the NFL anymore as a QB and is if anything declining further. How the Cowboys decided that Johnson was an adequate backup is hard to fathom.

If anything, while Cassell has nowhere near his talent level, he resembles Romo circa 2006 far more than he does Brad Johnson circa 2008.

Cassell is like Tony Romo but without talent or experience. I agree. Should be great. I remember when they had to bench him in the second half against Miami last year because Belichick didn't trust him to finish a game in which they had a huge lead. I will take a guy like Brad Johnson who at least had talent and has vast experience versus a guy who has no talent and little to no experience. Dallas was not expecting to be hit with all of the injuries and expected to be playing better as a team so they wanted a guy who could manage the game without making the big mistake. Johnson's upside is little at this point but his downside is not much either. Lets remember that he had not played a game in over a year.

 

[T Bell]

Great post. As a Pats fan, I wasn't all that upset about the backup QB situation, simply because the reality you point out. I had to mention this on a Pats board when Brady went down; there are 32 STARTING QBs in the league, never mind quality backups.

I don't think the Cassel move would have generated as much skepticism/criticism save for the fact he never started in college (kind of a big deal, I know.)

Ultimately, I think the only realistic way to go about having a good backup QB is to draft someone in the mid-rounds and groom him in your system. This is what Wolf did in GB for years and is what BB is doing in NE. You just have to hope you hit it with one of the kids. Otherwise, your options are the David Carr's of the world.

Philly traditionally has had one veteran backup, and one young QB prospect, which is IMHO the "traditional" way for teams to handle the situation. The Redskins have this same system in place (Collins, Brennan) as to the Giants (Carr, Woodson). This year the Eagles have gone away from that with the young guy, Kolb, also being the primary backup, but then Kolb is now in his second season and was the first highly drafted QB by the Eagles since McNabb has been there too.

What's notable about NE is that Cassell has been used as the primary backup despite having zero NFL experience, and not exactly a stellar college pedigree either. That's what makes Belichick's confidence in him so remarkable IMHO.

 

[SeniorVBDStudent]

Great post. As a Pats fan, I wasn't all that upset about the backup QB situation, simply because the reality you point out. I had to mention this on a Pats board when Brady went down; there are 32 STARTING QBs in the league, never mind quality backups.

I don't think the Cassel move would have generated as much skepticism/criticism save for the fact he never started in college (kind of a big deal, I know.)

Ultimately, I think the only realistic way to go about having a good backup QB is to draft someone in the mid-rounds and groom him in your system. This is what Wolf did in GB for years and is what BB is doing in NE. You just have to hope you hit it with one of the kids. Otherwise, your options are the David Carr's of the world.

Philly traditionally has had one veteran backup, and one young QB prospect, which is IMHO the "traditional" way for teams to handle the situation. The Redskins have this same system in place (Collins, Brennan) as to the Giants (Carr, Woodson). This year the Eagles have gone away from that with the young guy, Kolb, also being the primary backup, but then Kolb is now in his second season and was the first highly drafted QB by the Eagles since McNabb has been there too.

What's notable about NE is that Cassell has been used as the primary backup despite having zero NFL experience, and not exactly a stellar college pedigree either. That's what makes Belichick's confidence in him so remarkable IMHO.

The great news is that Cassell need not out-perform Brady, he just needs to perform similar to a Kerry Collins or Joe Flaco. It is starting to look like he will be able to do that, which is a far cry from how bad he looked 3 weeks ago.

 

[coolnerd]

Not having a good back-ip QB is really a case of simple supply/demand troubles. What is the number of starting NFL QBs who are at least good, solid players or better? 12 to 15 maybe. The rest are version of young guys team are hoping to become good, or veterans who are mere place holdholders. Just are not tht many guy in the world who can lay NFL QB.