Rams not allowed to negotiate... (1 Viewer)

[T Man]

The Dolphins could very well be required to exercise their pick for Jake Long or be in breach.

Of the contract - not the league rules.It might be stupid, but what if they pay the 30 mill guaranteed and go with a different player? NFL Ks are strange creatures, not subject to normal contract principles. Anyone know if players who declare for the draft are part of the NFLPA? The CBA might also come into play. I know the K must be in compliance with the CBA, but the player to be drafted is not yet necessarily a member of the NFLPA - or are they? I genuinely don't know the answer to that one.

All rookie contracts must conform to the CBA, and any money paid to draftees must be accounted for under the salary cap. The only player I've ever heard of not being a part of the union was Lavar Arrington, and that was only in regards to naming rights. I dont particularly see how membership in the union would effect these proceedings. Also, there is nothing particularly unusual about the player contracts in the NFL. They're subject to an additional set of rules under the CBA, but normal contract law still applies. My question for you is how exactly could the Dolphins breach, pay Jake Long 30 million and still make their salary cap work?

Not saying it would be smart - in fact, I specifically said it would not be smart. I know rookie Ks must comply with the CBA. And I know Jake Long's contract complies with the CBA. And I know contract rules apply. But, the CBA and the NFL rules make NFL Ks quite unique.My question is whether RIGHT NOW - before the Dolphins have made the pick - Jake Long is a member of the NFLPA. The reason I ask is that the CBA does not protect non-members of the NFLPA if the Dolphins were to breach.

Long has been selected by virtue of his contract. Whether a player is a member of the union or not is irrelevant. The CBA governs all players - even those not in the union. Failure to be a member of the union (and not paying dues) only means that you do not get the benefits associated with the union, itself. You still are governed by the CBA. That is why there is a draft -- even thought the players being drafted are not members of the union yet. Otherwise, the college players could argue that they aren't union members and therefore not under the CBA and therefore not submitting to the draft -- that they are instead Free Agents able to deal with any team. This is not the case.And it is likely (although I do not know) that players that submit there names to the NFL to be drafted agree to be bound by the CBA. Which is why a positive test at the combine is a first strike under the leagues drug policy (even thought the player is not an active player in the NFL).Regardless, once Long signed the contract, he is a player governed by the CBA. To be able to sign the player in the draft, a team has to actually draft the player. They are not eligible to be free agents.

 

[dparker713]

However, considering that the NFL has had previous teams negotiate with the number one pick, it very well may be a violation of NFL bylaws for a team to come to terms with a player and then not select that player.

Not likely. Reason? Circular. The NFL bylaws would only protect the "player" - which would undoubtedly be defined as a member of the NFLPA. Why? Because the NFL is an exclusive association requiring admittance into that union. You cannot be an NFL player without being a member of the NFLPA.Would Miami be subject to sanctioning? Probably. Are they, right now, forced to take Jake Long or lose their #1 pick? Probably not. Is it immaterial due to the logistics? Probably.My point - and jason's- is that I doubt the phins are in a "choose long or lose your pick" situation if long were, say, dead.

I seriously doubt that whoever wrote the NFL bylaws would allow for a truckwide loophole like you're suggesting. Even before Long signed the contract certain portions of the CBA applied to him, including requiring he go through the draft and the drug policy. He may not have played a down, but he's a player in the NFL. If he had any NCAA football eligibility left, he forfeited it when declaring for the draft. And Im not sure that you have to join the NFLPA in order to be employed by the NFL. You certainly cant gain any advantages over union members, but you might not need to actually join the union. I doubt the Dolphins have any choice at this point, even the choice of losing the pick. Though they'll still go through the motions of announcing the pick, I'd imagine that part of getting the contract approved by the league was Miami submitting Long as their selection for the upcoming draft. In that case, they've already chosen. Now, maybe there are some force majeure provisions which could mitigate or even release the Dolphins liability, but thats an entirely different beast.

 

[Christo]

Can someone arguing the other side please provide one link, just one, that shows Miami has not made their selection? It should be easy to find something that states the signing of Long doesn't bind them to choose him. If that's the real reason, the NFL would make that statement. Links have been posted to the contrary and have been ignored due to a website disclaimer. Please, just one link. I'd even accept a link showing that someone in the history of the draft signed a contract with the language "contingent upon being selected". Or one showing that a team signed multiple players prior to making their "official" selection. Anything other than opinion. Just one.

The draft will start at 3 p.m. ET on Saturday, three hours later than the previous start time

NFL.com

 

[Marc Levin]

Now, maybe there are some force majeure provisions which could mitigate or even release the Dolphins liability, but thats an entirely different beast.

No it isn't - it's the entire beast. The hand of god is what Jason and I have been talking about the entire thread.

Can someone arguing the other side please provide one link, just one, that shows Miami has not made their selection? It should be easy to find something that states the signing of Long doesn't bind them to choose him. If that's the real reason, the NFL would make that statement. Links have been posted to the contrary and have been ignored due to a website disclaimer. Please, just one link. I'd even accept a link showing that someone in the history of the draft signed a contract with the language "contingent upon being selected". Or one showing that a team signed multiple players prior to making their "official" selection. Anything other than opinion. Just one.

The draft will start at 3 p.m. ET on Saturday, three hours later than the previous start time

NFL.com

 

[dparker713]

Now, maybe there are some force majeure provisions which could mitigate or even release the Dolphins liability, but thats an entirely different beast.

No it isn't - it's the entire beast. The hand of god is what Jason and I have been talking about the entire thread.

Can someone arguing the other side please provide one link, just one, that shows Miami has not made their selection? It should be easy to find something that states the signing of Long doesn't bind them to choose him. If that's the real reason, the NFL would make that statement. Links have been posted to the contrary and have been ignored due to a website disclaimer. Please, just one link. I'd even accept a link showing that someone in the history of the draft signed a contract with the language "contingent upon being selected". Or one showing that a team signed multiple players prior to making their "official" selection. Anything other than opinion. Just one.

The draft will start at 3 p.m. ET on Saturday, three hours later than the previous start time

NFL.com

No, if a force majeure clause is invoked, the contract would void. What you and Jason had been talking about is a voidable contract. They are different and you should know that.

 

[Marc Levin]

Now, maybe there are some force majeure provisions which could mitigate or even release the Dolphins liability, but thats an entirely different beast.

No it isn't - it's the entire beast. The hand of god is what Jason and I have been talking about the entire thread.

Can someone arguing the other side please provide one link, just one, that shows Miami has not made their selection? It should be easy to find something that states the signing of Long doesn't bind them to choose him. If that's the real reason, the NFL would make that statement. Links have been posted to the contrary and have been ignored due to a website disclaimer. Please, just one link. I'd even accept a link showing that someone in the history of the draft signed a contract with the language "contingent upon being selected". Or one showing that a team signed multiple players prior to making their "official" selection. Anything other than opinion. Just one.

The draft will start at 3 p.m. ET on Saturday, three hours later than the previous start time

NFL.com

No, if a force majeure clause is invoked, the contract would void. What you and Jason had been talking about is a voidable contract. They are different and you should know that.

Force majeur as in the guy dies before being drafted.Not sure how that is different.

 

[Marc Levin]

Here's a basic contract principle for ya - impossibility. Here's another - frustration of purpose.

Subsequent events making both the phins obligation to draft Long and Long fulfilling his contractual obligations to the Dolphins impossible - he's dead.

I am pretty sure that if Long was unable to play in the NFL before Saturday's draft, the phins would be able to select a different player. And that is exactly what Jason and I have been talking about.

 

[dparker713]

Here's a basic contract principle for ya - impossibility.Subsequent events making both the phins obligation to draft Long and Long fulfilling his contractual obligations to the Dolphins impossible - he's dead.I am pretty sure that if Long was unable to play in the NFL before Saturday's draft, the phins would be able to select a different player. And that is exactly what Jason and I have been talking about.

Hardly a convincing defense. You're going to claim that the death of the player is unforeseeable? That contract was probably insured moments after it was signed. Absent a force majeure clause (which may or may not apply), I fail to see how the Dolphins would have any recourse. They'd have to both pay and pick Long at 1. The pick is in, the contract is approved. The Dolphins would be screwed.

 

[Marc Levin]

Here's a basic contract principle for ya - impossibility.Subsequent events making both the phins obligation to draft Long and Long fulfilling his contractual obligations to the Dolphins impossible - he's dead.I am pretty sure that if Long was unable to play in the NFL before Saturday's draft, the phins would be able to select a different player. And that is exactly what Jason and I have been talking about.

Hardly a convincing defense. You're going to claim that the death of the player is unforeseeable? That contract was probably insured moments after it was signed. Absent a force majeure clause (which may or may not apply), I fail to see how the Dolphins would have any recourse. They'd have to both pay and pick Long at 1. The pick is in, the contract is approved. The Dolphins would be screwed.

The non-occurrence of Long's death before the draft is a basic assumption of the contract - no?Yes - death of the player is unforeseeable and creates frustration of purpose when the death occurs before the draft. Just because the player's life is insured doesn't mean the Dolphins' #1 pick is protected. There is no amount of compensation available to the Dolphins that replaces the player.Once again, Long dies today, Dolphins get to pick a new player tomorrow. I see no reason why a contract in place with the PRESUMPTIVE #1 pick changes that.You are basically telling the Dolphins that they have to make salary cap space of the 30 Mill guaranteed for a dead player they never drafted.

 

[Marc Levin]

Link

In a leading New York case, 5 it was said that contracts "for the personal services, whether of the contracting; party or of a third person, requiring skill, and which can only be performed by the particular individual named, are not, in their nature, of absolute obligation under all circumstances. Both parties mnst be supposed to contemplate the continuance of the ability of the person whose skilled services are the subject of the contract, as one of the conditions of the contract. Contracts for personal services are subject to this implied condition, that the person shall be able at the time appointed to perform them; and if he dies, or, without of the parties to most contracts, yet engagements to render services of a personal nature, which cannot be performed by deputy, successor, or representative, within the meaning of the contract, are ended by the death, serious sickness, or insanity of the party bound to render such services, and an action will not thereafter lie for specific performance of such contract, or for damages for the breach thereof. . . . Either party to such contract for personal services is relieved from further performance under the contract, or from liability for breach thereof, by the death, insanity, or continued sickness of the other." Williams v. Butler (1914) — Ind. App. —, 105 N. E. 387.

All I could find on short notice and with other things to do, but if you start reading the link, you'll get all the info you need. Death of Long before the draft would likely relieve the Dolphins from the contract, thus freeing them to draft someone else.

 

[Obie Wan]

Link

In a leading New York case, 5 it was said that contracts "for the personal services, whether of the contracting; party or of a third person, requiring skill, and which can only be performed by the particular individual named, are not, in their nature, of absolute obligation under all circumstances. Both parties mnst be supposed to contemplate the continuance of the ability of the person whose skilled services are the subject of the contract, as one of the conditions of the contract. Contracts for personal services are subject to this implied condition, that the person shall be able at the time appointed to perform them; and if he dies, or, without of the parties to most contracts, yet engagements to render services of a personal nature, which cannot be performed by deputy, successor, or representative, within the meaning of the contract, are ended by the death, serious sickness, or insanity of the party bound to render such services, and an action will not thereafter lie for specific performance of such contract, or for damages for the breach thereof. . . . Either party to such contract for personal services is relieved from further performance under the contract, or from liability for breach thereof, by the death, insanity, or continued sickness of the other." Williams v. Butler (1914) — Ind. App. —, 105 N. E. 387.

All I could find on short notice and with other things to do, but if you start reading the link, you'll get all the info you need. Death of Long before the draft would likely relieve the Dolphins from the contract, thus freeing them to draft someone else.

based on this cite, your position is that Long's contract would void if he died AFTER the draft but before his 1st game.This would also presume his estate would have to return the signing bonus since he never performed under the contract.

Don;t thnk this cite proves anything regarding your pre-draft position

 

[Marc Levin]

Link

In a leading New York case, 5 it was said that contracts "for the personal services, whether of the contracting; party or of a third person, requiring skill, and which can only be performed by the particular individual named, are not, in their nature, of absolute obligation under all circumstances. Both parties mnst be supposed to contemplate the continuance of the ability of the person whose skilled services are the subject of the contract, as one of the conditions of the contract. Contracts for personal services are subject to this implied condition, that the person shall be able at the time appointed to perform them; and if he dies, or, without of the parties to most contracts, yet engagements to render services of a personal nature, which cannot be performed by deputy, successor, or representative, within the meaning of the contract, are ended by the death, serious sickness, or insanity of the party bound to render such services, and an action will not thereafter lie for specific performance of such contract, or for damages for the breach thereof. . . . Either party to such contract for personal services is relieved from further performance under the contract, or from liability for breach thereof, by the death, insanity, or continued sickness of the other." Williams v. Butler (1914) — Ind. App. —, 105 N. E. 387.

All I could find on short notice and with other things to do, but if you start reading the link, you'll get all the info you need. Death of Long before the draft would likely relieve the Dolphins from the contract, thus freeing them to draft someone else.

based on this cite, your position is that Long's contract would void if he died AFTER the draft but before his 1st game.This would also presume his estate would have to return the signing bonus since he never performed under the contract.

Don;t thnk this cite proves anything regarding your pre-draft position

Explain.My position is that the Dolphins are excused from performing the act of drafting Long on Saturday at 3p.m. if he dies between now and then.

 

[dparker713]

Link

In a leading New York case, 5 it was said that contracts "for the personal services, whether of the contracting; party or of a third person, requiring skill, and which can only be performed by the particular individual named, are not, in their nature, of absolute obligation under all circumstances. Both parties mnst be supposed to contemplate the continuance of the ability of the person whose skilled services are the subject of the contract, as one of the conditions of the contract. Contracts for personal services are subject to this implied condition, that the person shall be able at the time appointed to perform them; and if he dies, or, without of the parties to most contracts, yet engagements to render services of a personal nature, which cannot be performed by deputy, successor, or representative, within the meaning of the contract, are ended by the death, serious sickness, or insanity of the party bound to render such services, and an action will not thereafter lie for specific performance of such contract, or for damages for the breach thereof. . . . Either party to such contract for personal services is relieved from further performance under the contract, or from liability for breach thereof, by the death, insanity, or continued sickness of the other." Williams v. Butler (1914) — Ind. App. —, 105 N. E. 387.

All I could find on short notice and with other things to do, but if you start reading the link, you'll get all the info you need. Death of Long before the draft would likely relieve the Dolphins from the contract, thus freeing them to draft someone else.

based on this cite, your position is that Long's contract would void if he died AFTER the draft but before his 1st game.This would also presume his estate would have to return the signing bonus since he never performed under the contract.

Don;t thnk this cite proves anything regarding your pre-draft position

Explain.My position is that the Dolphins are excused from performing the act of drafting Long on Saturday at 3p.m. if he dies between now and then.

When he signed the contract, Long was due his signing bonus. Right then, right there. He was under no obligation to perform to be paid. Even if he dies, he's entitled to the entire 30 million even if he's never picked or plays a down. He has a right to that money and the Dolphins have a duty to pay. Long would be excused from future performance, and the Dolphins from future payments in the case of his death, but they would still owe his estate the balance of the guarenteed money. Right now, the contract is fully enforceable on both parties, regardless of what happens to Long. He's not the presumptive pick. He is the pick.

As for frustration of purpose, this again requires something reasonably unforeseeable. Its also inapplicable because it deals with the value of performance, and in this case Long just couldnt perform.

 

[Christo]

Link

In a leading New York case, 5 it was said that contracts "for the personal services, whether of the contracting; party or of a third person, requiring skill, and which can only be performed by the particular individual named, are not, in their nature, of absolute obligation under all circumstances. Both parties mnst be supposed to contemplate the continuance of the ability of the person whose skilled services are the subject of the contract, as one of the conditions of the contract. Contracts for personal services are subject to this implied condition, that the person shall be able at the time appointed to perform them; and if he dies, or, without of the parties to most contracts, yet engagements to render services of a personal nature, which cannot be performed by deputy, successor, or representative, within the meaning of the contract, are ended by the death, serious sickness, or insanity of the party bound to render such services, and an action will not thereafter lie for specific performance of such contract, or for damages for the breach thereof. . . . Either party to such contract for personal services is relieved from further performance under the contract, or from liability for breach thereof, by the death, insanity, or continued sickness of the other." Williams v. Butler (1914) — Ind. App. —, 105 N. E. 387.

All I could find on short notice and with other things to do, but if you start reading the link, you'll get all the info you need. Death of Long before the draft would likely relieve the Dolphins from the contract, thus freeing them to draft someone else.

based on this cite, your position is that Long's contract would void if he died AFTER the draft but before his 1st game.This would also presume his estate would have to return the signing bonus since he never performed under the contract.

Don;t thnk this cite proves anything regarding your pre-draft position

Explain.My position is that the Dolphins are excused from performing the act of drafting Long on Saturday at 3p.m. if he dies between now and then.

When he signed the contract, Long was due his signing bonus. Right then, right there. He was under no obligation to perform to be paid. Even if he dies, he's entitled to the entire 30 million even if he's never picked or plays a down. He has a right to that money and the Dolphins have a duty to pay. Long would be excused from future performance, and the Dolphins from future payments in the case of his death, but they would still owe his estate the balance of the guarenteed money. Right now, the contract is fully enforceable on both parties, regardless of what happens to Long. He's not the presumptive pick. He is the pick.

As for frustration of purpose, this again requires something reasonably unforeseeable. Its also inapplicable because it deals with the value of performance, and in this case Long just couldnt perform.

You make a lot of assumptions here. Have you actually read the contract?

 

[Marc Levin]

Link

In a leading New York case, 5 it was said that contracts "for the personal services, whether of the contracting; party or of a third person, requiring skill, and which can only be performed by the particular individual named, are not, in their nature, of absolute obligation under all circumstances. Both parties mnst be supposed to contemplate the continuance of the ability of the person whose skilled services are the subject of the contract, as one of the conditions of the contract. Contracts for personal services are subject to this implied condition, that the person shall be able at the time appointed to perform them; and if he dies, or, without of the parties to most contracts, yet engagements to render services of a personal nature, which cannot be performed by deputy, successor, or representative, within the meaning of the contract, are ended by the death, serious sickness, or insanity of the party bound to render such services, and an action will not thereafter lie for specific performance of such contract, or for damages for the breach thereof. . . . Either party to such contract for personal services is relieved from further performance under the contract, or from liability for breach thereof, by the death, insanity, or continued sickness of the other." Williams v. Butler (1914) — Ind. App. —, 105 N. E. 387.

All I could find on short notice and with other things to do, but if you start reading the link, you'll get all the info you need. Death of Long before the draft would likely relieve the Dolphins from the contract, thus freeing them to draft someone else.

based on this cite, your position is that Long's contract would void if he died AFTER the draft but before his 1st game.This would also presume his estate would have to return the signing bonus since he never performed under the contract.

Don;t thnk this cite proves anything regarding your pre-draft position

Explain.My position is that the Dolphins are excused from performing the act of drafting Long on Saturday at 3p.m. if he dies between now and then.

When he signed the contract, Long was due his signing bonus. Right then, right there. He was under no obligation to perform to be paid. Even if he dies, he's entitled to the entire 30 million even if he's never picked or plays a down. He has a right to that money and the Dolphins have a duty to pay. Long would be excused from future performance, and the Dolphins from future payments in the case of his death, but they would still owe his estate the balance of the guarenteed money. Right now, the contract is fully enforceable on both parties, regardless of what happens to Long. He's not the presumptive pick. He is the pick.

As for frustration of purpose, this again requires something reasonably unforeseeable. Its also inapplicable because it deals with the value of performance, and in this case Long just couldnt perform.

1) never said anything about the money being owed.2) assuming you are correct on all your assumptions above (and, FWIW, death of the player between signing day and draft day is NOT reasonably foreseeable), how does any of this affect whether the Dolphins are entitled to pick a non-dead player at 3 p.m. tomorrow?

(ETA - dparker, a lot of your arguments seem based on contract formation. I never said there was no contract.)

 

[dparker713]

Link

In a leading New York case, 5 it was said that contracts "for the personal services, whether of the contracting; party or of a third person, requiring skill, and which can only be performed by the particular individual named, are not, in their nature, of absolute obligation under all circumstances. Both parties mnst be supposed to contemplate the continuance of the ability of the person whose skilled services are the subject of the contract, as one of the conditions of the contract. Contracts for personal services are subject to this implied condition, that the person shall be able at the time appointed to perform them; and if he dies, or, without of the parties to most contracts, yet engagements to render services of a personal nature, which cannot be performed by deputy, successor, or representative, within the meaning of the contract, are ended by the death, serious sickness, or insanity of the party bound to render such services, and an action will not thereafter lie for specific performance of such contract, or for damages for the breach thereof. . . . Either party to such contract for personal services is relieved from further performance under the contract, or from liability for breach thereof, by the death, insanity, or continued sickness of the other." Williams v. Butler (1914) — Ind. App. —, 105 N. E. 387.

All I could find on short notice and with other things to do, but if you start reading the link, you'll get all the info you need. Death of Long before the draft would likely relieve the Dolphins from the contract, thus freeing them to draft someone else.

based on this cite, your position is that Long's contract would void if he died AFTER the draft but before his 1st game.This would also presume his estate would have to return the signing bonus since he never performed under the contract.

Don;t thnk this cite proves anything regarding your pre-draft position

Explain.My position is that the Dolphins are excused from performing the act of drafting Long on Saturday at 3p.m. if he dies between now and then.

When he signed the contract, Long was due his signing bonus. Right then, right there. He was under no obligation to perform to be paid. Even if he dies, he's entitled to the entire 30 million even if he's never picked or plays a down. He has a right to that money and the Dolphins have a duty to pay. Long would be excused from future performance, and the Dolphins from future payments in the case of his death, but they would still owe his estate the balance of the guarenteed money. Right now, the contract is fully enforceable on both parties, regardless of what happens to Long. He's not the presumptive pick. He is the pick.

As for frustration of purpose, this again requires something reasonably unforeseeable. Its also inapplicable because it deals with the value of performance, and in this case Long just couldnt perform.

1) never said anything about the money being owed.2) assuming you are correct on all your assumptions above (and, FWIW, death of the player between signing day and draft day is NOT reasonably foreseeable), how does any of this affect whether the Dolphins are entitled to pick a non-dead player at 3 p.m. tomorrow?

(ETA - dparker, a lot of your arguments seem based on contract formation. I never said there was no contract.)

1) Money being owed and paid is important because of the cap system in place in the NFL. Since every dollar paid to a player needs to be accounted for, once the Dolphins agree to pay Long there are serious cap implications, so even if they arent legally bound to take Long, they could very well be forced to take him under the CBA.2) The NFL has to approve all contracts before they're enforceable, so how exactly could the NFL approve a contract for the number one pick without requiring the Dolphins to be locked into that player for that pick. I fail to see how the Dolphins are in any different position right now then they will be at 3:11 pm eastern tomorrow. If Long were to suddenly die before the Rams pick but after the Dolphins selection, they'd have no recourse.

I guess I just dont see how the league office would allow for the type of loophole you're describing. Its not like the TV announcements are the actual time when the selection is made. The selections are submitted to the league on cards and are official before Goodell or Washington make the announcement. I'd be shocked if the league approved a contract for Long and did not require simultaneous submission of paperwork confirming Long as the first pick.

(You're argument is that there is a condition precedent to the contract being enforceable. Its a plausible argument, but given the attendant circumstances surrounding the contract, the view that the Dolphins picking Long at 1 as either a condition subsequent or concurrent seems to be the better argument. Unless all duties are delayed until after the selection, including payment of the signing bonus, then the selection really cant be a condition precedent.)

And no, I havent read the contract, this is all speculation on both sides of the argument.

 

[Marc Levin]

I fail to see how the Dolphins are in any different position right now then they will be at 3:11 pm eastern tomorrow. If Long were to suddenly die before the Rams pick but after the Dolphins selection, they'd have no recourse.

Your second sentence answers your first.

 

[Marc Levin]

You're argument is that there is a condition precedent to the contract being enforceable.

No - that isn't my argument.

 

[Bri]

My question is whether RIGHT NOW - before the Dolphins have made the pick - Jake Long is a member of the NFLPA. The reason I ask is that the CBA does not protect non-members of the NFLPA if the Dolphins were to breach.

He is governed by their CBA once he's reasonably considerred a surebet pick. He signed so he's a paying member now.It's a little confusing but clearly they word it better. It's at NFLPA.org and IIRC it's "player entry" but finding it amongst the roman numerals is a bit rough. It lacks a good TOC or I didn't notice one.

 

[dparker713]

You're argument is that there is a condition precedent to the contract being enforceable.

No - that isn't my argument.

You're viewing the NFL as an outsider to the Long-Dolphin contract then? Because they are potentially a party and at least a third party beneficiary. They had to approve the contract in addition to the Dolphins and Long. Not to mention that the Dolphins are a 1/32 member of the association. The agency law here gets a little convoluted, but it would be a difficult case to make that the NFL owes no duty to Long in this circumstance. I just dont see how the NFL could have approved the contract if they didnt require formal submission of the pick at the same time.

 

[Marc Levin]

You're argument is that there is a condition precedent to the contract being enforceable.

No - that isn't my argument.

You're viewing the NFL as an outsider to the Long-Dolphin contract then? Because they are potentially a party

No they aren't.And they aren't a third party beneficiary either.ETA - explain how they are a third party beneficiary of the player's contract, please. Because, as you know, third party beneficiaries can enforce the contract on the contract's terms as if they were a party. And that is because they were the INTENDED beneficiary of the contract.

 

[Marc Levin]

I just dont see how the NFL could have approved the contract if they didnt require formal submission of the pick at the same time.

Link to them approving the contract?

 

[dparker713]

I just dont see how the NFL could have approved the contract if they didnt require formal submission of the pick at the same time.

Link to them approving the contract?

CBAThis is the section of the CBA that governs the mechanics of player contracts. It requires the contract to be sent to the NFL Management Council and also discusses commissioner disapproval of a contract.

As for TPB, if Long now opted to play in another football league, the league would have standing for damages. Losing him would ostensibly lower the level of competition of the league and would be damaging to the product of all teams, especially if the Dolphins were allowed to select another player at 1. The level of play of the league is intended to be improved by this contract.

 

[Christo]

Hey, I know. Let's discuss what would happen if Long decides he doesn't want to play and informs the NFL he's withdrawing his name from consideration in tomorrow's draft.

Do the Phins still have to draft him?

Is he still entitled to the "signing bonus?"

 

[BoltBacker]

I skimmed through and am a little surprised nobody has mentioned the Bears situation back in 1990...

http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html...;sec=&spon=

... I was surprised it was against the rules back then but thought the league's decision, that the Bears has negotiated and signed the #6 pick in the draft(Mark Carrier) in 15 minutes, was completely absurd. If it was a bad rule then change it. If it wasn't a bad rule then enforce it.

 

[Marc Levin]

I just dont see how the NFL could have approved the contract if they didnt require formal submission of the pick at the same time.

Link to them approving the contract?

CBAThis is the section of the CBA that governs the mechanics of player contracts. It requires the contract to be sent to the NFL Management Council and also discusses commissioner disapproval of a contract.

As for TPB, if Long now opted to play in another football league, the league would have standing for damages. Losing him would ostensibly lower the level of competition of the league and would be damaging to the product of all teams, especially if the Dolphins were allowed to select another player at 1. The level of play of the league is intended to be improved by this contract.

I didn't see the Long contract mentioned there.Of course I don't dispute that the league must, at some point, approve the Long contract. Has it been approved already? Link?

Your TPB argument is wrong - the league had no standing to sue Ricky Williams when he played for the Canadian football league, with the Dolphins' approval, while still serving an NFL mandated suspension.

 

[Marc Levin]

Dparker, do you think the issue is contract formation or contract performance?

 

[obxlegends]

I skimmed through and am a little surprised nobody has mentioned the Bears situation back in 1990...

http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html...;sec=&spon=

... I was surprised it was against the rules back then but thought the league's decision, that the Bears has negotiated and signed the #6 pick in the draft(Mark Carrier) in 15 minutes, was completely absurd. If it was a bad rule then change it. If it wasn't a bad rule then enforce it.

I believe it was practice of a few teams back then to have team reps with several potential draft picks. Each of them with a contract in hand. The team would select who was willing to sign first, that is if the clock didn't run out first. I have no link, but I believed the Cowboys used this practice a lot.

 

[dparker713]

Dparker, do you think the issue is contract formation or contract performance?

I believe that there has already been an official pick made by the Dolphins, and that the signing bonus of the contract would, practically speaking, preclude them from choosing anyone else.

 

[Marc Levin]

Dparker, do you think the issue is contract formation or contract performance?

I believe that there has already been an official pick made by the Dolphins, and that the signing bonus of the contract would, practically speaking, preclude them from choosing anyone else.

And if Long were dead this morning, none of that changes.Dolphins have to draft a dead man.And you didn't answer the question.

 

[BuckeyeArt]

I just dont see how the NFL could have approved the contract if they didnt require formal submission of the pick at the same time.

Link to them approving the contract?

I can't believe you're asking for a link when you haven't even attempted to provide one yourself.

 

[Christo]

I just dont see how the NFL could have approved the contract if they didnt require formal submission of the pick at the same time.

Link to them approving the contract?

I can't believe you're asking for a link when you haven't even attempted to provide one yourself.

How do you provide a link to something that hasn't happened yet?

 

[massraider]

And the award for Lamest, Dweebiest Argument goes to.........

 

[Marc Levin]

I just dont see how the NFL could have approved the contract if they didnt require formal submission of the pick at the same time.

Link to them approving the contract?

I can't believe you're asking for a link when you haven't even attempted to provide one yourself.

How do you provide a link to something that hasn't happened yet?

Exactly - can't prove a negative.Which is exactly why neither I nor Christo gave you a link and why there will not be a link provided to answer my question.Neither event (contract approval, or first round selection) has happened yet.

 

[LAUNCH]

If the Rams plan to take Chris Long at #2 instead of getting anything from Atlanta (extra pick, bag of chips whatever) so they can draft Dorsey and then taking Long at 3 the GM for the team should be fired on the spot. The money saved between the 2nd and 3rd pick for a non-qb is such a huge factor that not making the move down would be a huge mistake.

 

[twitch]

If the Rams plan to take Chris Long at #2 instead of getting anything from Atlanta (extra pick, bag of chips whatever) so they can draft Dorsey and then taking Long at 3 the GM for the team should be fired on the spot. The money saved between the 2nd and 3rd pick for a non-qb is such a huge factor that not making the move down would be a huge mistake.

"fired on the spot"? seriously? we're just assuming the new GM is just some knucklehead who isnt aware that the Rams just drafted a DT last year, and Chris Long is a heluva player, the Rams actually like him, and they also are aware that theyd be overpaying to move up ONE spot? Cmon, now.

 

[Toomuchnv]

What if the Dolphins changed their mind and don't want Jake Long come draft day. So when they are officially on the clock they let the time expire and the Rams draft Jake Long? Could that not happen?

 

[zadok]

People, signed contract = drafted. There is no other scenario.

 

[dparker713]

Dparker, do you think the issue is contract formation or contract performance?

I believe that there has already been an official pick made by the Dolphins, and that the signing bonus of the contract would, practically speaking, preclude them from choosing anyone else.

And if Long were dead this morning, none of that changes.Dolphins have to draft a dead man.And you didn't answer the question.

I think there isnt a reasonable argument to be made that there isnt a valid contract. So contract performance would be the issue. Also, there is quite possibly an implied in fact contract between the Dolphins and the NFL if you're going to claim that the pick hasnt officially been made.

 

[BuckeyeArt]

Well, the NFL just introduced Jake Long as the 1st player selected in the draft, before the beginning of the draft. I guess that settles that discussion.

 

[Marc Levin]

Well, the NFL just introduced Jake Long as the 1st player selected in the draft, before the beginning of the draft. I guess that settles that discussion.

Then why did Roger Goodell just officially open the draft, announce Miami had the first pick, and that the pick was Jake Long?Cause they are into redundancy?

 

[Christo]

Well, the NFL just introduced Jake Long as the 1st player selected in the draft, before the beginning of the draft. I guess that settles that discussion.

Then why did Roger Goodell just officially open the draft, announce Miami had the first pick, and that the pick was Jake Long?Cause they are into redundancy?

Well, I did make reservations for dinner tonight. I'm going to go ahead and say I'm eating dinner.

 

[BuckeyeArt]

Well, the NFL just introduced Jake Long as the 1st player selected in the draft, before the beginning of the draft. I guess that settles that discussion.

Then why did Roger Goodell just officially open the draft, announce Miami had the first pick, and that the pick was Jake Long?Cause they are into redundancy?

Formality.He was also on Sirius at about 2:30 and said Miami had 'selected' Long, not 'will select' Long. He also said the reason the Rams were not allowed to pick was basically because that's how they (NFL) had done it in the past and that it wouldn't be fair to the fans.

 

[Marc Levin]

Well, the NFL just introduced Jake Long as the 1st player selected in the draft, before the beginning of the draft. I guess that settles that discussion.

Then why did Roger Goodell just officially open the draft, announce Miami had the first pick, and that the pick was Jake Long?Cause they are into redundancy?

Formality.

Exactly.

He was also on Sirius at about 2:30 and said Miami had 'selected' Long, not 'will select' Long. He also said the reason the Rams were not allowed to pick was basically because that's how they (NFL) had done it in the past and that it wouldn't be fair to the fans.