Yeah, you are. He's just saying Barden's path is not blocked by Fitzgerald or Moss (PROVEN players), but instead by guys that may or may not be able to keep him off the field. It's not a comment at all about Barden's talent or proven-'ness'.
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Ramses Barden (1 Viewer)
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JohnnyU
Footballguy
To say that Nicks is "totally unproven" is ridiculous when you consider his pedigree compared to Barden's and what Nicks accomplished last year as a rookie.
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"Totally unproven" means you've never done a thing on the field. I think both Nicks and Manningham proved something last year. Sure, they haven't proven they're superstars yet but they're certainly not "totally unproven." Probably just a semantics argument but I do feel that's not being fair to Nicks/Manningham.
I agree. I think he was a little overboard with that bit, but it's not like Breaston in AZ when he had Fitz and Boldin as a clear roadblock. Nicks (to me) is much more of an obstacle than Manningham.
shader
Footballguy
Nicks and Manningham both are proven average receivers in this league. Both had approximately 800 yards last season. Nicks seems to have more talent, but pedigree has nothing to do with being proven. They are unproven in the sense that they haven't proven to be great receivers, which everyone seems to have them built up as. Now if you asked my OPINION, I'd rather have Nicks and Manningham than Barden. I clearly stated that I know very little about Barden, and don't have much of an opinion on him.
But he was being trashed by many in the thread for the sheer fact that he plays on the Giants and has 3 guys in front of him.
My point is that the three guys in front of him aren't proven studs. They are young guys and are unproven. Are they more proven than Barden? Of course, but that's not the issue. If Barden has more talent, and he comes out and catches 60 balls for 1,000 yards, he'll go right to the top of the list in New York.
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BigJim®
Footballguy
I agree Nicks is not totally unproven, but Nicks has a pedigree? A cynic might ask if you are referring to 1st round pedigree, a la Troy Williamson, Craig Davis, Hayward-Bey, Chad Jackson, Mike Williams, Matt Jones, Rashaun Woods, Reggie Williams, Charles Rogers, Donte Stallworth, Koren Robinson, Peter Warrick, etc.? His rookie season was impressive no question, and possibly he could become a Fitzgerald/A.Johnson WR staple. However, those type of WRs are few and far between. Most 1st round WRs battle for PT just like everyone else. Also, many 1st round WRs underperform the draft pedigree even after showing early glimpses (Stallworth, M.Jones, Krob, Bowe?). To his credit, Nicks was obviously was eons ahead of Barden in terms of NFL-readiness despite being drafted just 2 rounds apart.IMHO, some in this thread are overreacting to the real point others are making. Barden is a perfect buy opportunity. I don't think anyone is suggesting to draft Barden as your WR3. My larger perspective is he's a nobody right now because he barely saw the field in 2009; a 17th round dynasty pick or possibly a free agent pick-up in existing dynasty leagues. Smith/Nicks are pretty standard NFL competition at this point, Barden is himself a 3rd round pick, and may also benefit from lack of competition for a role in NY. I'd be hard pressed to come up with 5 NFL WR corps that offer a better competition opportunity for a guy like Barden. His potentially beastly attributes make him much more valued by me as a prospect than your typical 4th-5th WR on a team's depth chart, particularly at his current cost. Nice opportunity for future trade value increase.
JohnnyU
Footballguy
I don't know about you, but what I saw from Nicks his rookie year leads me to believe he has a lot of talent (Pedigree) and will get better with each year going forward, which is not surprising in the least bit. Anyone who didn't see that in Nicks has blinders on.BigJim® said:
BigJim®
Footballguy
Ok, I don't think of pedigree in terms of pure talent, but rather reputation, lineage. JMHO you're taking this discussion a bit personal... using a lot of effort defending Nicks. I understand some of that is reaction to statements that Nicks is unproven. Time will tell, but even if you are 100% right about Nicks, you may miss up an opportunity to benefit from picking up Barden because value comes out of nowhere in the NFL.
JohnnyU
Footballguy
I'm not missing out on Barden. I picked him up in 3 leagues
Of course Barden has nothing to do with Nicks and won't be stealing any of his future thunder. Maybe Steve Smith owners should worry.
Don Quixote
Footballguy
jaybebo
Footballguy
Yes, but I am sure you were asking the question as a rhetorical one...it may also help if he lets those people go... 
Faust
MVP
I dug up this from NFL.com from last year:
http://www.nfl.com/draft/story?id=09000d5d...mp;confirm=true
Keyshawn look-alike Barden expects to make a name for himself
The physical stature of these two men, their facial similarity is, indeed, astounding.
Johnson said: "Well, I have heard that every year since 1996 when I was drafted, that every guy that is 6-2 or higher that can play some is always the next Keyshawn or reminds them of Keyshawn. At the end of the day, none of them have panned out to be Keyshawn. I really wouldn't want to put that on my back if I was them. But this time it's someone who actually looks like me? That's interesting. I have to check him out."
And then Barden had a little "Keyshawn" for Keyshawn.
"I know he was a great possession receiver," Barden said. "I think I have that trait. But I think I'm a receiver that what you need, I can get. I think I'm a complete receiver, not a possession receiver."
Catchy stuff, but in the eyes of NFL scouts, it just might be true.
Among the top-rated receivers in this draft, Texas Tech's Michael Crabtree is the unanimous No. 1 receiver, a splendid mixture of production and skill. Florida's Percy Harvin and Missouri's Jeremy Maclin are explosive pass catchers with unmistakable kick return skills to boot. Maryland's Darrius Heyward-Bey tore it up at the combine. And Ohio State's Brian Robiskie is a coach's son and a pass-catching dream.
But catch the consensus scouting report on Barden, a 6-foot-6, 230-pound pack of wonder:
"Big, great hands, athletic and can dominate. Great target. A certain No. 2 receiver with upside. Can take over a game. Tremendous body control. The best blocker of all receivers in the draft. Reminiscent of San Diego Chargers receiver Vincent Jackson but projected to become the better player. You need or want a big receiver, this player cannot be ignored. Could slip into the bottom of the first round. Should not last past the second round."
That is a sterling report for such a big player from such a small school.
His father, Al, was a forward on the NYU basketball team that toppled Jerry West and West Virginia en route to the 1960 Final Four. Barden played more basketball than he did football while growing up in Altadena, Calif., and, what with his striking height, excelled at fade patterns in the end zone. You toss it up, he goes and gets it. He scored a touchdown in 32 of his 46 Cal Poly games and scored a touchdown in 23 consecutive games.
"Something about basketball has always helped me in football," Barden said. "It prepared me more. Scoring became clear to me as what to do in both sports. Everything I did in basketball involved jumping and a lot of rebounding. I translate that to football. I don't have the luxury of coming from a big school where sheer talent and numbers shined everywhere. I am trying to make sure people know more about what I have.
"I spent five years around football in college since I was a redshirt my first year. Each year I became a more well-rounded receiver. I've worked on a variety of more routes, more slants and outs and comebacks and curls. I move like a 6-footer. I bend my knees to get the ball when I have to. I have a physical standpoint in my arsenal. I was taught at Cal Poly that you give great effort when the ball is not coming your way. You stay involved when you are not getting the football by blocking your tail off."
At his workout Friday and his final pro day at USC on April 1, Barden wants to excel at sharpening the top of his routes, exploding in his breaks and running strong out of cuts. He was told he was clocked in the 40-yard dash at the combine in ranges from 4.50 to 4.57. He wants to improve on that.
He gained his degree in business administration and marketing from Cal Poly on Dec. 13. Since then, he has turned heads at the Senior Bowl and the combine, and now looks to attract more eyes and interest.
All beyond the Keyshawn factor.
"I've played so many sports -- volleyball, track, soccer, baseball, basketball -- beyond football and I have dealt with many things in sports," Barden said. "I know you have to rebound and be tough and get through tough athletic experiences. You have to have a certain understanding about your mind and your body and how they work together. They go hand-in-hand. I have that understanding. I want to learn how to get better and I don't waste time in my work. I think I am the most complete receiver in the draft, better than a decent player and aspiring to be a great player."
http://www.nfl.com/draft/story?id=09000d5d...mp;confirm=true
Keyshawn look-alike Barden expects to make a name for himself
The physical stature of these two men, their facial similarity is, indeed, astounding.
Johnson said: "Well, I have heard that every year since 1996 when I was drafted, that every guy that is 6-2 or higher that can play some is always the next Keyshawn or reminds them of Keyshawn. At the end of the day, none of them have panned out to be Keyshawn. I really wouldn't want to put that on my back if I was them. But this time it's someone who actually looks like me? That's interesting. I have to check him out."
And then Barden had a little "Keyshawn" for Keyshawn.
"I know he was a great possession receiver," Barden said. "I think I have that trait. But I think I'm a receiver that what you need, I can get. I think I'm a complete receiver, not a possession receiver."
Catchy stuff, but in the eyes of NFL scouts, it just might be true.
Among the top-rated receivers in this draft, Texas Tech's Michael Crabtree is the unanimous No. 1 receiver, a splendid mixture of production and skill. Florida's Percy Harvin and Missouri's Jeremy Maclin are explosive pass catchers with unmistakable kick return skills to boot. Maryland's Darrius Heyward-Bey tore it up at the combine. And Ohio State's Brian Robiskie is a coach's son and a pass-catching dream.
But catch the consensus scouting report on Barden, a 6-foot-6, 230-pound pack of wonder:
"Big, great hands, athletic and can dominate. Great target. A certain No. 2 receiver with upside. Can take over a game. Tremendous body control. The best blocker of all receivers in the draft. Reminiscent of San Diego Chargers receiver Vincent Jackson but projected to become the better player. You need or want a big receiver, this player cannot be ignored. Could slip into the bottom of the first round. Should not last past the second round."
That is a sterling report for such a big player from such a small school.
His father, Al, was a forward on the NYU basketball team that toppled Jerry West and West Virginia en route to the 1960 Final Four. Barden played more basketball than he did football while growing up in Altadena, Calif., and, what with his striking height, excelled at fade patterns in the end zone. You toss it up, he goes and gets it. He scored a touchdown in 32 of his 46 Cal Poly games and scored a touchdown in 23 consecutive games.
"Something about basketball has always helped me in football," Barden said. "It prepared me more. Scoring became clear to me as what to do in both sports. Everything I did in basketball involved jumping and a lot of rebounding. I translate that to football. I don't have the luxury of coming from a big school where sheer talent and numbers shined everywhere. I am trying to make sure people know more about what I have.
"I spent five years around football in college since I was a redshirt my first year. Each year I became a more well-rounded receiver. I've worked on a variety of more routes, more slants and outs and comebacks and curls. I move like a 6-footer. I bend my knees to get the ball when I have to. I have a physical standpoint in my arsenal. I was taught at Cal Poly that you give great effort when the ball is not coming your way. You stay involved when you are not getting the football by blocking your tail off."
At his workout Friday and his final pro day at USC on April 1, Barden wants to excel at sharpening the top of his routes, exploding in his breaks and running strong out of cuts. He was told he was clocked in the 40-yard dash at the combine in ranges from 4.50 to 4.57. He wants to improve on that.
He gained his degree in business administration and marketing from Cal Poly on Dec. 13. Since then, he has turned heads at the Senior Bowl and the combine, and now looks to attract more eyes and interest.
All beyond the Keyshawn factor.
"I've played so many sports -- volleyball, track, soccer, baseball, basketball -- beyond football and I have dealt with many things in sports," Barden said. "I know you have to rebound and be tough and get through tough athletic experiences. You have to have a certain understanding about your mind and your body and how they work together. They go hand-in-hand. I have that understanding. I want to learn how to get better and I don't waste time in my work. I think I am the most complete receiver in the draft, better than a decent player and aspiring to be a great player."
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Ron_Mexico
I Love Doggies
Huh ?Steve Smith was a beast last year, and has improved every year since becoming a pro.To suggest that Smith should be worried about Barden stealing his jobis beyond ridiculous. Why is Nicks job safe, and Steve Smith owners should "worry" ?I like Barden but you are barking up the wrong tree.Barden may be groomed as a WR3 to fight with Manningham, nothing more at this juncture.I'm not missing out on Barden. I picked him up in 3 leaguesOf course Barden has nothing to do with Nicks and won't be stealing any of his future thunder. Maybe Steve Smith owners should worry.
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netnalp
Footballguy
Media Q&A With Offensive Coordinator Kevin Gilbride:
Q: Ramses Barden starting to pick up the offense?
A: It would be good. There is no question. I think we all are hopeful because we see a guy that has a big wing span, and he is a bright young man. He has good hands. Now he just has to go do it; go do it on a consistent basis. And I think he wants to do it and I think it is important to him. That is the first step. The second step – now you have to go do it. And that is what we are waiting to see. In the spring you see those little glimpses – you get encouragement and feel, “He is there.” Now can we get it out of you on a consistent basis? Can you take advantage of the fact that you are 6-5, 6-6, whatever your size is and reach over somebody and make some of those catches that we think you are capable of making. You see it once in a while; you don’t see it enough. No one wants it more than him. And I’m not sure that – I think last year as his first year was kind of a feeling out process. I think he really wants to be the guy. I think he wants to be that contributor. Now he has to go do it.
Q: He had one yesterday afternoon that Bomar threw it up in the air – a little bit high – he…?
A: That is where – you just have to jump, all you do is run (I think he meant the choice was to jump or continue running on that pass). Where it hit him it was a great throw. He stopped to make a spectacular catch. If he had just kept running, it would have been right in his hands. It was a great throw. I would say that he tried too hard. He wants to make a spectacular catch. All he had to do was to keep running. It would have been right in stride. Maybe that is an example of what I am saying. He wants to do it so badly sometimes it almost hurts you. But I feel encouraged by the fact that I see a guy that really is trying very, very hard. And again I see some skills that would help us and would benefit us substantially if he can do it on a continual basis. I’m betting on him. I think he is going to do it. I think he wants to do it. I think it is important enough; he is bright enough – now just go do it. I think he can. Steve Smith started…his rookie year and then now he has become a very – every play in and play out – practice, games. It doesn’t matter. He is always in competition, he is always doing it. I’m not saying that he is Steve Smith, but I’m saying that I would love to see him take the next step like Steve did his second year. And if he can do that, that will help us tremendously.
Q: Learning curve for Barden from Cal Poly to the NFL?
A: Yeah, I guess. I guess. You are hopeful you see something – maybe in an earlier than we did. I see a very intelligent guy that I would hope would assimilate what we do at a fairly quick pace. And so therefore, you would like to see it manifest itself maybe a little bit more rapidly. Maybe I’m being unfair because I’m so hopeful because I can see some things that would fill some voids that we have offensively. But you have to go do it.
................................................................................
Barden hasn't consistently made enough right decisions on the field to overcome Mannigham in OTAs. Barden needs more experience so he reflexively makes the right decision, I think this season he'll still have to consciously think how to respond, which is a slower thought process than responding reflexively.
He'll be #4 this season. Next season is where I'll be seeing if he can become #3, or if there's an injury #2.
Q: Ramses Barden starting to pick up the offense?
A: It would be good. There is no question. I think we all are hopeful because we see a guy that has a big wing span, and he is a bright young man. He has good hands. Now he just has to go do it; go do it on a consistent basis. And I think he wants to do it and I think it is important to him. That is the first step. The second step – now you have to go do it. And that is what we are waiting to see. In the spring you see those little glimpses – you get encouragement and feel, “He is there.” Now can we get it out of you on a consistent basis? Can you take advantage of the fact that you are 6-5, 6-6, whatever your size is and reach over somebody and make some of those catches that we think you are capable of making. You see it once in a while; you don’t see it enough. No one wants it more than him. And I’m not sure that – I think last year as his first year was kind of a feeling out process. I think he really wants to be the guy. I think he wants to be that contributor. Now he has to go do it.
Q: He had one yesterday afternoon that Bomar threw it up in the air – a little bit high – he…?
A: That is where – you just have to jump, all you do is run (I think he meant the choice was to jump or continue running on that pass). Where it hit him it was a great throw. He stopped to make a spectacular catch. If he had just kept running, it would have been right in his hands. It was a great throw. I would say that he tried too hard. He wants to make a spectacular catch. All he had to do was to keep running. It would have been right in stride. Maybe that is an example of what I am saying. He wants to do it so badly sometimes it almost hurts you. But I feel encouraged by the fact that I see a guy that really is trying very, very hard. And again I see some skills that would help us and would benefit us substantially if he can do it on a continual basis. I’m betting on him. I think he is going to do it. I think he wants to do it. I think it is important enough; he is bright enough – now just go do it. I think he can. Steve Smith started…his rookie year and then now he has become a very – every play in and play out – practice, games. It doesn’t matter. He is always in competition, he is always doing it. I’m not saying that he is Steve Smith, but I’m saying that I would love to see him take the next step like Steve did his second year. And if he can do that, that will help us tremendously.
Q: Learning curve for Barden from Cal Poly to the NFL?
A: Yeah, I guess. I guess. You are hopeful you see something – maybe in an earlier than we did. I see a very intelligent guy that I would hope would assimilate what we do at a fairly quick pace. And so therefore, you would like to see it manifest itself maybe a little bit more rapidly. Maybe I’m being unfair because I’m so hopeful because I can see some things that would fill some voids that we have offensively. But you have to go do it.
................................................................................
Barden hasn't consistently made enough right decisions on the field to overcome Mannigham in OTAs. Barden needs more experience so he reflexively makes the right decision, I think this season he'll still have to consciously think how to respond, which is a slower thought process than responding reflexively.
He'll be #4 this season. Next season is where I'll be seeing if he can become #3, or if there's an injury #2.
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don't know if he did enough last night to be out there during the season.. seems he's still behind Manningham, and Smith... and now this Cruz fella.. it may be year 3, and maybe with another team before Barden matures enough to be a FFWR#3..
disclosure, he's my 6th WR behind james Jones and Dez Bryant and TJH, fighting for my #3 spot.. not that you care... i may have to cut bait in season if a sleeper emerges
disclosure, he's my 6th WR behind james Jones and Dez Bryant and TJH, fighting for my #3 spot.. not that you care... i may have to cut bait in season if a sleeper emerges
identikit
Footballguy
Update from Ralph Vacchiano, Giants' beat writer at the NY Daily News:
Brace for bad #NYG news: Giants WR Ramses Barden has a stress fracture of a transverse process in his back. That's not a short-term thing.
Time out depends on severity, place of fracture. Barden has it in lower back, which is good. Could be out at least a month, though.
Brace for bad #NYG news: Giants WR Ramses Barden has a stress fracture of a transverse process in his back. That's not a short-term thing.
Time out depends on severity, place of fracture. Barden has it in lower back, which is good. Could be out at least a month, though.
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netnalp
Footballguy
Goff had a similar injury and it took a month to heal. They won't cut Barden, the team likes him, he just needs to get more experience. The injury probably means the Giants will carry 6 WRs rather than 5 this season, likely Cruz and Hagan, though Moss always seems to make the roster even though fans expect him to get cut.
OLD THREAD BUMP, maybe something to look for on MNF
Last week, Barden was in on red zone sets.
Waiting for him to be a monster near the GL once Eli gets comfy with him. At 6-6 with leaping ability, good luck to the defense stopping a lob.
It's been ssssssssssslow progress, but it seems like he's coming along.
Last week, Barden was in on red zone sets.
Waiting for him to be a monster near the GL once Eli gets comfy with him. At 6-6 with leaping ability, good luck to the defense stopping a lob.
It's been ssssssssssslow progress, but it seems like he's coming along.
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netnalp
Footballguy
Coordinator Kevin Gilbride suggested that Ramses Barden will not have a major role even if Steve Smith (pectoral) misses Sunday's game.
"We'll rotate and move guys so we're not pigeon holed with one guy," said Gilbride. "Depending on what the route is and what we're asking with the play, we can move different people in there." Keep Barden on the waiver wire. He'll split snaps with Duke Calhoun and H-back Travis Beckum.
http://www.rotoworld.com/content/Home_NFL.aspx
"We'll rotate and move guys so we're not pigeon holed with one guy," said Gilbride. "Depending on what the route is and what we're asking with the play, we can move different people in there." Keep Barden on the waiver wire. He'll split snaps with Duke Calhoun and H-back Travis Beckum.
http://www.rotoworld.com/content/Home_NFL.aspx
Giants4Life
Footballguy
Barden is not good. He's slower then most WRs, has trouble running routes. I feel like he should be converted to a TE. Hes a feel good story, but hes not going to make an impact
netnalp
Footballguy
Updating a previous item, Giants WR Ramses Barden has been diagnosed with a "significant injury" to the deltoid ligament in his left foot.
He also has a fracture in his left leg. Asked Monday if it's an injury Barden could return from this year, coach Tom Coughlin replied "That's unlikely as of now." The Giants' three-receiver set has taken a big hit since last Thursday. It's fallen from Hakeem Nicks-Steve Smith-Mario Manningham to Nicks-Manningham-Duke Calhoun. Barden is headed for injured reserve.
http://www.rotoworld.com/content/playerpag...NFL&id=5207
He also has a fracture in his left leg. Asked Monday if it's an injury Barden could return from this year, coach Tom Coughlin replied "That's unlikely as of now." The Giants' three-receiver set has taken a big hit since last Thursday. It's fallen from Hakeem Nicks-Steve Smith-Mario Manningham to Nicks-Manningham-Duke Calhoun. Barden is headed for injured reserve.
http://www.rotoworld.com/content/playerpag...NFL&id=5207
netnalp
Footballguy
http://www.sportsinjuryclinic.net/cyberthe...kle_sprain.html
What is a deltoid ligament sprain?
The deltoid ligament is on the inside of the ankle and provides support to prevent the ankle over pronating. It is rare for the deltoid ligament to be sprained as the fibula bone tends to prevent the ankle from moving far enough to sprain or over stretch the ligament. A deltoid ligament sprain is often associated with a fracture of the fibula or other bones in the ankle.
What is a deltoid ligament sprain?
The deltoid ligament is on the inside of the ankle and provides support to prevent the ankle over pronating. It is rare for the deltoid ligament to be sprained as the fibula bone tends to prevent the ankle from moving far enough to sprain or over stretch the ligament. A deltoid ligament sprain is often associated with a fracture of the fibula or other bones in the ankle.
Boone22
Footballguy
I'm surprised by this. Third round development project isn't really a feel good story either.
