Ran a 10k in June (6 Viewers)

[SteelCurtain]

Went to sign up for my October 9 marathon tonight and its filled!

Soooo, I've spent the last hour looking at potential replacements. I've narrowed it down to:

Bar Harbor, ME

Baltimore Marathon

New Hampshire Marathon

Hartford Marathon

I think that's the order of preference but I've got to run by my wife and check with work. If anyone has any experience with these races, I'm all ears.

Since my only marathon was Disney, which is pre-packaged artificial fun.....I'm leaning toward Bar Harbor as it is more natural, serene surroundings. The course looks hard though, lots of up and downs on the course elevation. Elevation at the bottom of this page So, I wouldn't be looking for an improvement of time necessarily. Just looking for fun (although I'm sure on that last incline I won't be thinking about how much fun I'm having! )

Just thinking out loud. I'll shut up now.

 

[prosopis]

I took gruecd advice and ran faster on the tread mill today. I did 7:30 & 8:00 pace.

Just to be clear, I wasn't implying that you should be doing ALL of your runs faster. I just meant that you need to incorporate some faster running ("speedwork") into your training plan if you want to get faster. Intervals, tempo runs, fartlek, and even hill repeats are all great ways to help build speed. Just remember that every workout has a distinct purpose, and as much as it's important to run your fast runs fast, it's equally important to run your easy runs easy so that you're properly rested for your "quality" workouts.

I am doing the Pfitz 24/55 plan. It says nothing about hill repeats. I want to do hill repeats and I have my hill picked out. Which workout would you do these on? Aerobic,long run,or lactate threshold? I am assuming you dont want to do hills on a recovery run.

 

[prosopis]

I did 8.2 miles today. It was again over 100. I waited until the sun was just kissing the horizon and I went out. It went much better then last week. I was supposed to do some 100m strides. Instead of doing those I walked the 24 seconds after every mile. I feel much better this week. It really helped waiting for the sun to go down. The biggest problem here is that you can barely see your hand in front of your face when there is no moon. We have no lights out here which is one of the reasons I live here. The stars are beautiful but its easy to trip over rocks and what not.

I would call today a success.

 

[gruecd]

I am doing the Pfitz 24/55 plan. It says nothing about hill repeats. I want to do hill repeats and I have my hill picked out. Which workout would you do these on? Aerobic,long run,or lactate threshold? I am assuming you dont want to do hills on a recovery run.

Honestly, I'd probably just skip the hill repeats for now. If anything, wait until Pfitz has you doing some interval (i.e., "VO2 max") workouts, and maybe substitute some hill repeats for those.

 

[tri-man 47]

12-mile ride last night and easy 4-mile run tonight after work. Legs feel surprisingly great. Apparently the slower pace made a world of difference in terms of recovery time.

Thinking ahead to 2012. Maybe I'll race a 50-miler in the fall.

"Fall 50" - Door County, WI. You know the course from our relay a few years ago. Word.

 

[BassNBrew]

12-mile ride last night and easy 4-mile run tonight after work. Legs feel surprisingly great. Apparently the slower pace made a world of difference in terms of recovery time.

Thinking ahead to 2012. Maybe I'll race a 50-miler in the fall.

"Fall 50" - Door County, WI. You know the course from our relay a few years ago. Word.

At my run pace, I stay permanantly recovered.

 

[tri-man 47]

I have a century ride/race on Saturday that I would like to do well in and then 2 weeks to the marathon. I hadn't planned anything over 6 miles this week and one last 13 miler next Sun/Mon. Since I pulled the plug on this run early, should I be looking at more mileage this week? Maybe a 10-13 miler tomorrow morning?

Obviously would've been ideal if you could've finished the 22, but as long as you'd already done a couple of 20-milers, it's not the end of the world that you cut it short, and it was probably a good call to avoid the blisters. I don't think I'd do anything differently at this point. For what it's worth, though, I don't know that it's the best idea to ride a hard 100-miler two weeks pre-marathon. That being said, I also don't know which one is the bigger priority for you.

I've only done one 20 miler. Green light on 12 in the morning?I don't get good results from tapering and will lose more fitness than i gain back in rest. I do better with more rest days splinkled throughout based on past results. With a metric century the day before the marathon as part of the festivities, this ride is part of the training block.

BnB - I like the adage of 'race your way into shape,' which seemed to work for me in my BtoB. So the century two weeks before is OK by me! At this point, don't stress the cut-back in the 20 miler. You can't make that up. Just trust your (cross)training (which has been very strong).

 

[tri-man 47]

Prosopis - you're doing great! I love the thought of running under the stars, though the creature potential would probably spook me.

Steel Curtain - I drove along the Maine coast two years ago and loved it. That'd be a great place for a marathon. You're right about that last extended hill though - oof! But ya gotta love the "downhill" at mile 6 in the top map drawing. BYO sled.

 

[gruecd]

12-mile ride last night and easy 4-mile run tonight after work. Legs feel surprisingly great. Apparently the slower pace made a world of difference in terms of recovery time.

Thinking ahead to 2012. Maybe I'll race a 50-miler in the fall.

"Fall 50" - Door County, WI. You know the course from our relay a few years ago. Word.

Haha. If I'm gonna do a 50, I probably won't do it on the road. Probably either the North Face Endurance Challenge near Madison, or else the JFK 50. Plenty of time to decide. Word.

 

[Darrinll40]

12-mile ride last night and easy 4-mile run tonight after work. Legs feel surprisingly great. Apparently the slower pace made a world of difference in terms of recovery time.

Thinking ahead to 2012. Maybe I'll race a 50-miler in the fall.

"Fall 50" - Door County, WI. You know the course from our relay a few years ago. Word.

Haha. If I'm gonna do a 50, I probably won't do it on the road. Probably either the North Face Endurance Challenge near Madison, or else the JFK 50. Plenty of time to decide. Word.

I visited the gym yesterday for the first time in more than a year. Did lower body workout for bout 40 minutes, working everything from the abs down. I warmed up on the bike and finished with a very short jog on the dreadmill. Tonight is a 3-4 mile interval run.

 

[ThreeThousand]

Disappointing day for me yesterday. Usually try to hit the gym instead of going out to lunch, which provides about 75% of my workout time and keeps me from eating crap for lunch . Yesterday, though, I had a Board meeting I had to attend, and then had a Dr.'s appt in the afternoon, so no gym visit .

When I got home, the wife immediately put me on baby duty - we have a 7 week old, and she needed a break. Which is fine, but that means that there's not much in the way of working out. I managed to sneak in an hour of P90X while the baby was in her swing, and a quick 30 minute ride on the trainer after my wife got back from having "me" time. But, that's about it.

Should be better today as I've got a lunch workout planned, an after-work workout planned, and a soccer game tonight.

 

[Sand]

12-mile ride last night and easy 4-mile run tonight after work. Legs feel surprisingly great. Apparently the slower pace made a world of difference in terms of recovery time.

Thinking ahead to 2012. Maybe I'll race a 50-miler in the fall.

"Fall 50" - Door County, WI. You know the course from our relay a few years ago. Word.

Haha. If I'm gonna do a 50, I probably won't do it on the road. Probably either the North Face Endurance Challenge near Madison, or else the JFK 50. Plenty of time to decide. Word.

I visited the gym yesterday for the first time in more than a year. Did lower body workout for bout 40 minutes, working everything from the abs down. I warmed up on the bike and finished with a very short jog on the dreadmill. Tonight is a 3-4 mile interval run.

You're gonna crush Bourbon with this type of workrate.

At my run pace, I stay permanantly recovered.

Sig-worthy.

-----

On my end, not anything huge going on. My bike this weekend was (as graded by my computer) the toughest I've recorded. Felt decent after. I managed to leave a huge puddle of sweat on the dreadmill at the Y after a good 5 miles. Overused some back muscles while doing the last mile at 7:00. I'm trying to keep some run shape up for the mountain run July 4th. Other than that just trying to get in 100+ miles/week on the bike. The next tri is flat and I want to be at 24-25mph for that one.

 

[Sand]

Time to feel really slow:

M80 Ed Whitlock ON ran the 10,000m – the first event of Day 2 of the Canadian Masters Championships on Saturday Morning under perfect conditions. The World Record stood at 44:29.4 – set by Ed Bedham USA in 1988 – that stood for almost 25 years. Ed finished in an unbelievable 42:59.16 - a minute and a half under the record. As Ken Stone points out, that averaged 6:55 per Mile. The WR in the M80 Mile is 7:09.. and Ed ran six of them in a row!!

25 hours later, on Sunday morning, Ed ran 20:58.12….another World Record in the 5000m - bettering his own mark that he set two weekends ago on the same Varsity Centre track at the Ontario Masters Championships.

Cervelo R3 and P3

 

[Ned]

Time to feel really slow:

M80 Ed Whitlock ON ran the 10,000m – the first event of Day 2 of the Canadian Masters Championships on Saturday Morning under perfect conditions. The World Record stood at 44:29.4 – set by Ed Bedham USA in 1988 – that stood for almost 25 years. Ed finished in an unbelievable 42:59.16 - a minute and a half under the record. As Ken Stone points out, that averaged 6:55 per Mile. The WR in the M80 Mile is 7:09.. and Ed ran six of them in a row!!

25 hours later, on Sunday morning, Ed ran 20:58.12….another World Record in the 5000m - bettering his own mark that he set two weekends ago on the same Varsity Centre track at the Ontario Masters Championships.

Cervelo R3 and P3

Holy ####. Great for him! I can't see those records falling any time soon. Sheesh.

 

[Darrinll40]

You guys doing tri's may want to stay out of King County.

I think watching he swim portion there would be hilarious.

 

[Ned]

My four year old son ran his first ever run today. We went for a half mile run around the neighborhood and he took it in stride. It was funny to watch him trying to figure out how to run smoothly, run in a straight line, etc. I was paying close attention to his breathing to listen for any sort of issues. He was barely breathing. That of course drove his little brother Ian to want to go for a run so we went up the street and back after we came back. One of the neighbors drove by and honked/gave a thumbs up to the kids. Great stuff.

Hopefully it was the first of many. Good job, Zack and Ian!

 

[prosopis]

I am doing the Pfitz 24/55 plan. It says nothing about hill repeats. I want to do hill repeats and I have my hill picked out. Which workout would you do these on? Aerobic,long run,or lactate threshold? I am assuming you dont want to do hills on a recovery run.

Honestly, I'd probably just skip the hill repeats for now. If anything, wait until Pfitz has you doing some interval (i.e., "VO2 max") workouts, and maybe substitute some hill repeats for those.

I will do that.I dont see any VO2 workouts for another 10 weeks so maybe it will be cooler then. I am running a race labor day that has some pretty serious hills in it. I was hoping to be prepared for that but maybe that will be one of my hill repeats.Thanks for the help. You are a great resource.

 

[prosopis]

My four year old son ran his first ever run today. We went for a half mile run around the neighborhood and he took it in stride. It was funny to watch him trying to figure out how to run smoothly, run in a straight line, etc. I was paying close attention to his breathing to listen for any sort of issues. He was barely breathing. That of course drove his little brother Ian to want to go for a run so we went up the street and back after we came back. One of the neighbors drove by and honked/gave a thumbs up to the kids. Great stuff. Hopefully it was the first of many. Good job, Zack and Ian!

That is awesome.

 

[Darrinll40]

4 mile interval run this afternoon, and it was only 91 when I went out. I planned on doing a mile warmup and cool down with 1 min speed runs and 2 min easy in between. Instead I did a mile warmup, then;

1.5 min speed

2 min rest

1 s but faster

2 r

.5 s but faster

2r

repeat 3 times. My cool down ended being only .35, but I walked for about 5 minutes afterward.

On the 30 second speed runs I managed 6:45, 7:20, and 7:42. It is nice to know that I can do 403.8 feet at around the same pace that Grue can do 26.2 miles, and I couldn't even repeat that speed 3/4 of a mile further down the road. Tomorrow I hit the gym for upper body workouts. I can already feel my sore arms.

 

[Darrinll40]

My four year old son ran his first ever run today. We went for a half mile run around the neighborhood and he took it in stride. It was funny to watch him trying to figure out how to run smoothly, run in a straight line, etc. I was paying close attention to his breathing to listen for any sort of issues. He was barely breathing. That of course drove his little brother Ian to want to go for a run so we went up the street and back after we came back. One of the neighbors drove by and honked/gave a thumbs up to the kids. Great stuff. Hopefully it was the first of many. Good job, Zack and Ian!

That is awesome.

 

[tri-man 47]

Time to feel really slow:

M80 Ed Whitlock ON ran the 10,000m – the first event of Day 2 of the Canadian Masters Championships on Saturday Morning under perfect conditions. The World Record stood at 44:29.4 – set by Ed Bedham USA in 1988 – that stood for almost 25 years. Ed finished in an unbelievable 42:59.16 - a minute and a half under the record. As Ken Stone points out, that averaged 6:55 per Mile. The WR in the M80 Mile is 7:09.. and Ed ran six of them in a row!!

25 hours later, on Sunday morning, Ed ran 20:58.12….another World Record in the 5000m - bettering his own mark that he set two weekends ago on the same Varsity Centre track at the Ontario Masters Championships.

Cervelo R3 and P3

Holy ####. Great for him! I can't see those records falling any time soon. Sheesh.

Not soon, no. But in 25 years ... Darrin - funny stuff about the vests. "I'm not that ...strong ..a swimmer." :SNLclassic:

Ned - that's so cool about the boys wanting to run!! Liquors had a similar story about his girls last year. I recall the oldest toeing the 'start' line and declaring "it's on like Donkey Kong."

 

[Ned]

Time to feel really slow:

M80 Ed Whitlock ON ran the 10,000m – the first event of Day 2 of the Canadian Masters Championships on Saturday Morning under perfect conditions. The World Record stood at 44:29.4 – set by Ed Bedham USA in 1988 – that stood for almost 25 years. Ed finished in an unbelievable 42:59.16 - a minute and a half under the record. As Ken Stone points out, that averaged 6:55 per Mile. The WR in the M80 Mile is 7:09.. and Ed ran six of them in a row!!

25 hours later, on Sunday morning, Ed ran 20:58.12….another World Record in the 5000m - bettering his own mark that he set two weekends ago on the same Varsity Centre track at the Ontario Masters Championships.

Cervelo R3 and P3

Holy ####. Great for him! I can't see those records falling any time soon. Sheesh.

Not soon, no. But in 25 years ... Darrin - funny stuff about the vests. "I'm not that ...strong ..a swimmer." :SNLclassic:

Ned - that's so cool about the boys wanting to run!! Liquors had a similar story about his girls last year. I recall the oldest toeing the 'start' line and declaring "it's on like Donkey Kong."

I'd probably pass out from the laughter if Z said that. Gotta love kids....

 

[tri-man 47]

Haha. If I'm gonna do a 50, I probably won't do it on the road. Probably either the North Face Endurance Challenge near Madison, or else the JFK 50. Plenty of time to decide. Word.

Well, 'cause, yeah ...where's the challenge in a 50 mile road race? Go get 'em, tiger!

 

[Ned]

The combo of 5mi run with 5x hills yesterday followed by a 7mi tempo in today's heat kicked my ###. :X

I let my HR dictate the pace today given that it was 85 with 73% humidity and I saw a very distinct connection with hitting the top end of Lactate Threshold (175) and the pain. I kept the 3 mi in the middle of Lactate Threshold and had to do everything I could from stopping. I went 8:29, 8:51, 9:01 and was fading fast. A month ago I wouldn't have been able to do this run at all without passing out.

I wanted to get my HR back down to Recovery rate for the last 2 miles and couldn't do it without walking. So I walked/ran the last 1.5 and got back to the house with every inch of my body covered in sweat. Thank god for the Amphipod belt.

I know I was hurting when I couldn't get my HR lower than 145 while I was walking. It gave me flashbacks to the Marathon blowup. I'll have to look back at my data tonight and see if there was any similarities.

 

[IvanKaramazov]

This week is the first of what I hope is new regular five-day-a-week routine. In the past -- like several years ago -- I found that I couldn't do more than four days per week without getting injured, but that was before I had built up a good base. Pfitz has a nice line in his book to the effect that many people experiment with certain routines (like higher mileages), get hurt, and give up permanently without considering that with a couple more years under their belts they would be able to go back and adapt to that higher training with no problem. So I'm going to try to increase my overall mileage by adding an extra day.

For now, it's looking like this:

Sun: SDO -- done

Monday: 5 miles at something like HMP --done

Tuesday: 5 miles recovery -- done

Wednesday: 10 miles easy -- done

Thursday: SDO

Friday: 5 miles at something like HMP

Saturday: 5 miles recovery

My plan is to hopefully do this for a couple of weeks, make sure everything works okay, and then a) boost my long run a little and b) turn one of those HMP pace runs into a tempo run or intervals or something.

Edit: What I'd really like to do sometime before winter arrives is to do the first month or so of 18/55 just to get a taste for how it goes.

 

[The_Man]

Prosopis - nice job running in the dark.

Grue - that 50-miler sounds right up your alley. I love that a 5k is too tough for you, but a 50-miler seems reasonable.

Sand - You are a machine right now. I am seeing much hardware in your future.

Ned - great stuff with the kids. It's always a little scary when I'm reminded how much of a role model I am for my kids in everything I do. Running is an example of you modeling behavior that it's great for your kids to emulate. Interesting stuff on the HR - it wouldn't surprise me if you do find some similarities with your Marathon HR. For me, an HR of 165-170 is pretty much the blowup point. Once I pass that point, it seems like I can't get my HR back under control while continuing to run and it just keeps going up and up until I blowup and have to stop.

Darrin - you are killing it now, too. Just a lot of really good work. I'm thinking you're putting your weight in a good place.

As for me, I'm still grinding away. Five miles yesterday and five today - that's 5 straight scheduled weekday runs without a miss, which is a very good sign for me. My goal is to rebuild my base over the next 7 weeks with lots of slow, easy miles. I did 28 miles last week, and basically plan to boost that about 2 miles per week until I'm up to 40/week by early August. At that point, I'll start an 18-week training plan for another marathon - kind of leaning away from the Rail Trail Marathon in Maryland now and thinking about the Rehoboth Marathon on December 10 at the beach.

Also will have to decide at some point between the Higdon Advanced I and the Pfitz 18/55 plans. Am thinking Pfitz, but only if I really am up to 40 mpw by August. Jumping into Pfitz when I wasn't ready for it after taking a couple of months off is what rattled my confidence/desire to run and got me out of my routine in the first place.

 

[The_Man]

In the past -- like several years ago -- I found that I couldn't do more than four days per week without getting injured, but that was before I had built up a good base. Pfitz has a nice line in his book to the effect that many people experiment with certain routines (like higher mileages), get hurt, and give up permanently without considering that with a couple more years under their belts they would be able to go back and adapt to that higher training with no problem.

Hey, I resemble that remark!

Also will have to decide at some point between the Higdon Advanced I and the Pfitz 18/55 plans. Am thinking Pfitz, but only if I really am up to 40 mpw by August. Jumping into Pfitz when I wasn't ready for it after taking a couple of months off is what rattled my confidence/desire to run and got me out of my routine in the first place.

I think you will be fine making the leap to 5 days per week - the way your sked is set up, you never do more than 3 days in a row, same as me. One tip - I usually run in the morning, but on that third consecutive day, sometimes I do that run after work - that way I get an extra half-day of rest before running that third straight day, which seems to help keep me from overuse injury.

 

[Ned]

Ivan - That was a huge point in the book that really stuck with me too. It definitely helped me decide to go for another marathon.

The_Man - I was :thisclose: to choosing Rehoboth over Philly. I'll be curious to read your RR. Glad to see you getting back in the saddle.

 

[tri-man 47]

In the past -- like several years ago -- I found that I couldn't do more than four days per week without getting injured, but that was before I had built up a good base. Pfitz has a nice line in his book to the effect that many people experiment with certain routines (like higher mileages), get hurt, and give up permanently without considering that with a couple more years under their belts they would be able to go back and adapt to that higher training with no problem.

Hey, I resemble that remark!

Also will have to decide at some point between the Higdon Advanced I and the Pfitz 18/55 plans. Am thinking Pfitz, but only if I really am up to 40 mpw by August. Jumping into Pfitz when I wasn't ready for it after taking a couple of months off is what rattled my confidence/desire to run and got me out of my routine in the first place.

I think you will be fine making the leap to 5 days per week - the way your sked is set up, you never do more than 3 days in a row, same as me. One tip - I usually run in the morning, but on that third consecutive day, sometimes I do that run after work - that way I get an extra half-day of rest before running that third straight day, which seems to help keep me from overuse injury.

Some deliberate stretching/yoga and/or strength work on the 'off' days could help as well. Knock on wood tapshead: ) but it doesn't bother me to run for many days in a row.

 

[SteelCurtain]

The combo of 5mi run with 5x hills yesterday followed by a 7mi tempo in today's heat kicked my ###. :X

I let my HR dictate the pace today given that it was 85 with 73% humidity and I saw a very distinct connection with hitting the top end of Lactate Threshold (175) and the pain. I kept the 3 mi in the middle of Lactate Threshold and had to do everything I could from stopping. I went 8:29, 8:51, 9:01 and was fading fast. A month ago I wouldn't have been able to do this run at all without passing out.

I wanted to get my HR back down to Recovery rate for the last 2 miles and couldn't do it without walking. So I walked/ran the last 1.5 and got back to the house with every inch of my body covered in sweat. Thank god for the Amphipod belt.

I know I was hurting when I couldn't get my HR lower than 145 while I was walking. It gave me flashbacks to the Marathon blowup. I'll have to look back at my data tonight and see if there was any similarities.

Can we talk heartrate? I just started hooking myself up.I'm 40 years old. My really easy recovery runs are usually at about 140. Most of my long runs, I'm at about 145-150. My speed work is usually 165ish....max I've hit was 175 this morning. Am I on track? Or not?

These figures are only from the last week (because that's when I started.)

Do you just do your training workouts based on HR as opposed to pace?

Thanks.

 

[Sand]

The combo of 5mi run with 5x hills yesterday followed by a 7mi tempo in today's heat kicked my ###. :X

I let my HR dictate the pace today given that it was 85 with 73% humidity and I saw a very distinct connection with hitting the top end of Lactate Threshold (175) and the pain. I kept the 3 mi in the middle of Lactate Threshold and had to do everything I could from stopping. I went 8:29, 8:51, 9:01 and was fading fast. A month ago I wouldn't have been able to do this run at all without passing out.

I wanted to get my HR back down to Recovery rate for the last 2 miles and couldn't do it without walking. So I walked/ran the last 1.5 and got back to the house with every inch of my body covered in sweat. Thank god for the Amphipod belt.

I know I was hurting when I couldn't get my HR lower than 145 while I was walking. It gave me flashbacks to the Marathon blowup. I'll have to look back at my data tonight and see if there was any similarities.

Can we talk heartrate? I just started hooking myself up.I'm 40 years old. My really easy recovery runs are usually at about 140. Most of my long runs, I'm at about 145-150. My speed work is usually 165ish....max I've hit was 175 this morning. Am I on track? Or not?

These figures are only from the last week (because that's when I started.)

Do you just do your training workouts based on HR as opposed to pace?

Thanks.

Sounds reasonable. My runs are anywhere from 145 (today on dreadmill) to 180 (races, my last hill run in 90 temps). Most typical 10k training runs at tempoish pace are in the 165bpm range. And I am 40 (not that means much since HR is so individual).I do all workouts based on pace and distance. I pretty much do my best Jens Voight imitation and tell my body to shut up and do what I want it to do. I keep track of HR and like to gaze at it afterward, particularly after races to see how close I got to getting it to explode. During a workout I typically ignore it unless my effort feels off or somesuch.

 

[2Young2BBald]

The combo of 5mi run with 5x hills yesterday followed by a 7mi tempo in today's heat kicked my ###. :X

I let my HR dictate the pace today given that it was 85 with 73% humidity and I saw a very distinct connection with hitting the top end of Lactate Threshold (175) and the pain. I kept the 3 mi in the middle of Lactate Threshold and had to do everything I could from stopping. I went 8:29, 8:51, 9:01 and was fading fast. A month ago I wouldn't have been able to do this run at all without passing out.

I wanted to get my HR back down to Recovery rate for the last 2 miles and couldn't do it without walking. So I walked/ran the last 1.5 and got back to the house with every inch of my body covered in sweat. Thank god for the Amphipod belt.

I know I was hurting when I couldn't get my HR lower than 145 while I was walking. It gave me flashbacks to the Marathon blowup. I'll have to look back at my data tonight and see if there was any similarities.

Can we talk heartrate? I just started hooking myself up.I'm 40 years old. My really easy recovery runs are usually at about 140. Most of my long runs, I'm at about 145-150. My speed work is usually 165ish....max I've hit was 175 this morning. Am I on track? Or not?

These figures are only from the last week (because that's when I started.)

Do you just do your training workouts based on HR as opposed to pace?

Thanks.

Sounds reasonable. My runs are anywhere from 145 (today on dreadmill) to 180 (races, my last hill run in 90 temps). Most typical 10k training runs at tempoish pace are in the 165bpm range. And I am 40 (not that means much since HR is so individual).I do all workouts based on pace and distance. I pretty much do my best Jens Voight imitation and tell my body to shut up and do what I want it to do. I keep track of HR and like to gaze at it afterward, particularly after races to see how close I got to getting it to explode. During a workout I typically ignore it unless my effort feels off or somesuch.

I have been meaning to post about the difference between my HR on the run and the bike and this reminded me about it. 42 here and for runs at race pace, I can peg my HR between 160 & 165, spiking to the high 170s during whatever sprint to the finish I have left, same for bigger hills. But, on the bike, I can push as hard as I can, but rarely get it over 155, unless it is a stand out of the saddle type hill. I would guess it means I am in better run shape than bike shape, or that I need to just work harder on the bike. Thoughts here too?

 

[Ned]

The combo of 5mi run with 5x hills yesterday followed by a 7mi tempo in today's heat kicked my ###. :X

I let my HR dictate the pace today given that it was 85 with 73% humidity and I saw a very distinct connection with hitting the top end of Lactate Threshold (175) and the pain. I kept the 3 mi in the middle of Lactate Threshold and had to do everything I could from stopping. I went 8:29, 8:51, 9:01 and was fading fast. A month ago I wouldn't have been able to do this run at all without passing out.

I wanted to get my HR back down to Recovery rate for the last 2 miles and couldn't do it without walking. So I walked/ran the last 1.5 and got back to the house with every inch of my body covered in sweat. Thank god for the Amphipod belt.

I know I was hurting when I couldn't get my HR lower than 145 while I was walking. It gave me flashbacks to the Marathon blowup. I'll have to look back at my data tonight and see if there was any similarities.

Can we talk heartrate? I just started hooking myself up.I'm 40 years old. My really easy recovery runs are usually at about 140. Most of my long runs, I'm at about 145-150. My speed work is usually 165ish....max I've hit was 175 this morning. Am I on track? Or not?

These figures are only from the last week (because that's when I started.)

Do you just do your training workouts based on HR as opposed to pace?

Thanks.

Funny you ask (bolded). I've read a lot about HR and studied my own HR a lot in the past year and have been fascinated by it. I've always used it as a judge on how runs go at a certain pace (lower HR at same pace means I'm getting stronger). I've gotten to the point where I can generally know my HR by feel. It's almost become a game to keep my mind occupied on longer runs. After reading the Pfitz book twice now, I decided today that I'm going to flip the script and train to HR for a while to see how things go. At a minimum you need to know your max HR in order to calc the workout ranges. The more precise way is to know your HR reserve, which is the difference between your resting and max HR (I'm 54 resting, 193 max). The Pfitz book has suggested ranges for each workout using both resting and Max calcs. These will be my guide from now through the Fall.

The best way I've found to get the max is to wear my Garmin at every race. I've hit 193 3x at 5K and 10K races. Anything longer than that, I don't come close to 190s. For resting HR, you need to wear your HR strap to bed one night and have the HR monitor next to you. When you wake up, grab the HR monitor and turn it on. That's going to be your resting HR. Try to not get up and out of bed to test it. Your HR will instantly jump once you get on your feet.

Running in the heat of the summer and reading the Pfitz book really gave me that moment. Your pace is going to fall into these HR ranges based on the tons of variables that come with each run. How rested are you? How hot is it? What is the humidity like? Etc etc.... Especially running in the summer time, you have to be careful to not exceed these HR ranges. It's incredible how different a run will be based on all of these conditions. By blindly running based on pace, you're going to get yourself into trouble sooner or later. Today's run would've been a massive failure if I stuck with trying to hit 8:15 on the Tempo miles. By training to the top end of Lactate Threshold, I was able to gut it out a bit longer.

 

[tri-man 47]

Heart rate - I used this a lot for the marathons. As part of my training, I did two different sequences of 7 mile runs at different paces. It was interesting to see how linear the HR was as my pace changed. I learned that I could hold a comfortable pace in the 145-150 bpm range. My long, slow training runs tended to average in the low 150s. At Boston, where I struggled somewhat through the final miles, my HR was in the high 150s early on. At Big Sur, it stayed around 150 through the first half of the race. Individual results will vary, of course, but this all convinced me that, indeed, the HR is a (or even the) key factor in our distance training.

 

[Ned]

Ned - great stuff with the kids. It's always a little scary when I'm reminded how much of a role model I am for my kids in everything I do. Running is an example of you modeling behavior that it's great for your kids to emulate. Interesting stuff on the HR - it wouldn't surprise me if you do find some similarities with your Marathon HR. For me, an HR of 165-170 is pretty much the blowup point. Once I pass that point, it seems like I can't get my HR back under control while continuing to run and it just keeps going up and up until I blowup and have to stop.

So I looked at my Garmin data from the marathon. Pfitz says that marathon pace is just below the top end of Lactate Threshold (specifically says 79-88% of Max or 73-84% of HRR). For me, that's around a max of 170. It's no wonder I blew up. I hit 170 mile 3 and proceeded to blow thru that and was at 180 by mile 12. I never gave myself a chance. This actually backs up my other post on HR training. Your pace is going to be dictated by your ability to run at a certain HR range. If Pfitz is right, than I should've backed off the pace at 7 when it was clear I was going too fast (hit 175 at mile 7). Had I backed it down instead of blindly following pace, I probably would've had a much better experience/time.

 

[SteelCurtain]

This heart rate stuff is really interesting. I've only used it for a week of training, so I'm just learning, but I am obsessed with watching how small hills will take my heart rate up another 5 beats per minute for a short stretch. I haven't had it in enough variable weather to tell the difference yet, but I'm looking forward to it.

I gotta get that Pfitz book. Of course, I barely have enough time to read my Sports Illustrated each week....hard to imagine I'll carve out time for the book.

tri man - you say that the HR is a key factor in distance training. Are you feeling like you should try to use it in determining your marathon pace in races as well?

 

[BassNBrew]

19 mile "sweet spot" ride tonite. 283 watts, 21.7 mph, 79 cadence, 156 hr.

Got hosed on the average speed by a headwind that kicked up on the 2nd half of the ride (average almost 1 mph headwind for the ride) and having to slow for 50 geese crossing the road at the base of the last hill. Watts are a little high as I had my race wheels on and the unit is calibrated for my training wheels.

think I'm going to go for a run now.

 

[Sand]

I have been meaning to post about the difference between my HR on the run and the bike and this reminded me about it. 42 here and for runs at race pace, I can peg my HR between 160 & 165, spiking to the high 170s during whatever sprint to the finish I have left, same for bigger hills. But, on the bike, I can push as hard as I can, but rarely get it over 155, unless it is a stand out of the saddle type hill. I would guess it means I am in better run shape than bike shape, or that I need to just work harder on the bike. Thoughts here too?

Odd - I can sustain a HR on the bike that I typically can't running.

So I looked at my Garmin data from the marathon. Pfitz says that marathon pace is just below the top end of Lactate Threshold (specifically says 79-88% of Max or 73-84% of HRR). For me, that's around a max of 170. It's no wonder I blew up. I hit 170 mile 3 and proceeded to blow thru that and was at 180 by mile 12. I never gave myself a chance.

Your marathon was all about the heat.

19 mile "sweet spot" ride tonite. 283 watts, 21.7 mph, 79 cadence, 156 hr.

You are a beast. Cadence is too low, though.

 

[prosopis]

It hit 112 here today. The better part of valor had me skip my 9 miles today. I also had my 16 year old passing his drivers test today which took a toll on me. I will do my recovery on Fri and long run early sat am.

 

[BassNBrew]

I have been meaning to post about the difference between my HR on the run and the bike and this reminded me about it. 42 here and for runs at race pace, I can peg my HR between 160 & 165, spiking to the high 170s during whatever sprint to the finish I have left, same for bigger hills. But, on the bike, I can push as hard as I can, but rarely get it over 155, unless it is a stand out of the saddle type hill. I would guess it means I am in better run shape than bike shape, or that I need to just work harder on the bike. Thoughts here too?

Odd - I can sustain a HR on the bike that I typically can't running.

I'm in the same boat as Sand. Much easier to push the pain threshold when you're sitting on your butt and don't have to worry about fallening down. 2y2b - You may need to find the right type of course. Too many turns and downhills and it's hard to hold a hr. I have found that as I've increased my running and backed off my biking at threshold that the pain threshold on the bike has dropped. I used to be able to ride an hour in zone 4 and now I want to puke when i cross into it. Try some bike intervals in the 2-5 min range at or above threshold.

 

[BassNBrew]

So much for the run...seems to rain/strom every night right at sun down.

 

[sho nuff]

Had my last run til maybe Sunday in Orlando. Not going to feel like running late Friday before getting up at 4am for the long drive.

Tonight was my quarter mile interval night...which I love...even on the TM.

When I started doing these things I was doing about 2:30 per quarter. Now I do most of them around 2:00 per quarter. (which still makes me laugh that this is a speed workout for me and the regular pace for some of you).

Started most of this around 250 lbs back in January. Down to 215 now and feeling great. Had to buy some new shorts and shirts for the trip. First time in a while that I have wearing a size large shirt.

Going to try not to blow it all this week on vacation...

 

[2Young2BBald]

I have been meaning to post about the difference between my HR on the run and the bike and this reminded me about it. 42 here and for runs at race pace, I can peg my HR between 160 & 165, spiking to the high 170s during whatever sprint to the finish I have left, same for bigger hills. But, on the bike, I can push as hard as I can, but rarely get it over 155, unless it is a stand out of the saddle type hill. I would guess it means I am in better run shape than bike shape, or that I need to just work harder on the bike. Thoughts here too?

Odd - I can sustain a HR on the bike that I typically can't running.

I'm in the same boat as Sand. Much easier to push the pain threshold when you're sitting on your butt and don't have to worry about fallening down. 2y2b - You may need to find the right type of course. Too many turns and downhills and it's hard to hold a hr. I have found that as I've increased my running and backed off my biking at threshold that the pain threshold on the bike has dropped. I used to be able to ride an hour in zone 4 and now I want to puke when i cross into it. Try some bike intervals in the 2-5 min range at or above threshold.

So, Sunday's tri ride is dead flat and I averaged 22.8 MPH last year (over 13 miles). Doubt I can do that this year, but to try and do so, should I go max gear and try to push my heart rate to where it usually gets on my runs?

 

[tri-man 47]

tri man - you say that the HR is a key factor in distance training. Are you feeling like you should try to use it in determining your marathon pace in races as well?

Yes. Now, by using it in training, you'll have a very good sense of what sort of pace you can maintain during the race. So in effect, you've already established your targeted pace based on a maintainable heart rate. But since the race course and race conditions will differ from your training, using the HR as a guide can be a very good reality check instead of trying to hold what could be an inappropriate pace. I was a little too stubborn at Boston and suffered a bit over the final four miles as a result. All in all, it might be wise to set the Garmin screen to show HR (and/or avg HR) instead of pace, and run according to that through the first half of the race!

 

[BassNBrew]

tri man - you say that the HR is a key factor in distance training. Are you feeling like you should try to use it in determining your marathon pace in races as well?

Yes. Now, by using it in training, you'll have a very good sense of what sort of pace you can maintain during the race. So in effect, you've already established your targeted pace based on a maintainable heart rate. But since the race course and race conditions will differ from your training, using the HR as a guide can be a very good reality check instead of trying to hold what could be an inappropriate pace. I was a little too stubborn at Boston and suffered a bit over the final four miles as a result. All in all, it might be wise to set the Garmin screen to show HR (and/or avg HR) instead of pace, and run according to that through the first half of the race!

Very well put.

 

[Ned]

So I looked at my Garmin data from the marathon. Pfitz says that marathon pace is just below the top end of Lactate Threshold (specifically says 79-88% of Max or 73-84% of HRR). For me, that's around a max of 170. It's no wonder I blew up. I hit 170 mile 3 and proceeded to blow thru that and was at 180 by mile 12. I never gave myself a chance.

Your marathon was all about the heat.

Right. The heat is what drove my HR through the roof. Had I paid closer attetion to my HR at the early stages of the race, I may have been able to salvage it.

tri man - you say that the HR is a key factor in distance training. Are you feeling like you should try to use it in determining your marathon pace in races as well?

Yes. Now, by using it in training, you'll have a very good sense of what sort of pace you can maintain during the race. So in effect, you've already established your targeted pace based on a maintainable heart rate. But since the race course and race conditions will differ from your training, using the HR as a guide can be a very good reality check instead of trying to hold what could be an inappropriate pace. I was a little too stubborn at Boston and suffered a bit over the final four miles as a result. All in all, it might be wise to set the Garmin screen to show HR (and/or avg HR) instead of pace, and run according to that through the first half of the race!

 

[Sand]

I have been meaning to post about the difference between my HR on the run and the bike and this reminded me about it. 42 here and for runs at race pace, I can peg my HR between 160 & 165, spiking to the high 170s during whatever sprint to the finish I have left, same for bigger hills. But, on the bike, I can push as hard as I can, but rarely get it over 155, unless it is a stand out of the saddle type hill. I would guess it means I am in better run shape than bike shape, or that I need to just work harder on the bike. Thoughts here too?

Odd - I can sustain a HR on the bike that I typically can't running.

I'm in the same boat as Sand. Much easier to push the pain threshold when you're sitting on your butt and don't have to worry about fallening down. 2y2b - You may need to find the right type of course. Too many turns and downhills and it's hard to hold a hr. I have found that as I've increased my running and backed off my biking at threshold that the pain threshold on the bike has dropped. I used to be able to ride an hour in zone 4 and now I want to puke when i cross into it. Try some bike intervals in the 2-5 min range at or above threshold.

So, Sunday's tri ride is dead flat and I averaged 22.8 MPH last year (over 13 miles). Doubt I can do that this year, but to try and do so, should I go max gear and try to push my heart rate to where it usually gets on my runs?

Absolutely not. If this were a TT, heck yea. But you have to run after the bike, so you want a hard threshold type pacing on the bike. Above that will leave you staggering through the run.

 

[Lehigh98]

Fortunately all of that is nothing major and he sentenced me to 6 weeks rest with partial credit for time served (almost 4 weeks with only 2 runs of about 3 mi each since the half).

One of the runs was the Runamuck 5K which was alot of fun. We came in 4th even though one of our team of four was holding us back.

Before

Back

During

After

I'm 3 of 4 in the before and after pics.

Great to hear it's not bad news ...and love the race pics! What fun!

My buddy Sean (all the way on the right in the before pic) is a "Tri-man" too, he just won the Long Island Gold Coast Triathlon this past weekend, we were definitely holding him back in the mud run.

 

[Sand]

tri man - you say that the HR is a key factor in distance training. Are you feeling like you should try to use it in determining your marathon pace in races as well?

Yes. Now, by using it in training, you'll have a very good sense of what sort of pace you can maintain during the race. So in effect, you've already established your targeted pace based on a maintainable heart rate. But since the race course and race conditions will differ from your training, using the HR as a guide can be a very good reality check instead of trying to hold what could be an inappropriate pace. I was a little too stubborn at Boston and suffered a bit over the final four miles as a result. All in all, it might be wise to set the Garmin screen to show HR (and/or avg HR) instead of pace, and run according to that through the first half of the race!

Very well put.

Not that I've done a marathon, but for steady state runs HR is a wonderful tool. On the other hand it is useless for intervals or speedwork or 5k pacing, etc. HR lags too much for intervals and 5ks are typically done at a "I'm think I'm going to puke and die" pace anyway.

 

[Sand]

So I looked at my Garmin data from the marathon. Pfitz says that marathon pace is just below the top end of Lactate Threshold (specifically says 79-88% of Max or 73-84% of HRR). For me, that's around a max of 170. It's no wonder I blew up. I hit 170 mile 3 and proceeded to blow thru that and was at 180 by mile 12. I never gave myself a chance.

Your marathon was all about the heat.

Right. The heat is what drove my HR through the roof. Had I paid closer attetion to my HR at the early stages of the race, I may have been able to salvage it.

That may very well be true, but I have done runs where my HR climbed to the moon no matter how slow I went. You certainly may have been able to salvage it. The only recourse at this point is sign up for another one and make sure it is 40F, overcast, with no wind the morning of the race.