tri-man 47
Footballguy
Epic, Duck, epic. And: with pictures! Love it.
Fantasy Football - Footballguys Forums
This is a sample guest message. Register a free account today to become a member! Once signed in, you'll be able to participate on this site by adding your own topics and posts, as well as connect with other members through your own private inbox!
Ran a 10k in June (6 Viewers)
- Thread starter GStrot
- Start date
2Young2BBald
Footbaldguy
Duck, to both the effort/outcome and the tremendous write up to capture the experience.
worrierking
Footballguy
Great reports Fat Guy and Duck. I loved every second.
Northern Ohio Marathon Report.
I met some online friends on friday night who also were supposed to run Towpath, who were considering signing up for the Northern Ohio race like I did, since they were trained and had come all the way from Wisconsin. They decided to run it and even better, said they would stick around after the race to wait for me (they were doing the half). They learned why I am called the Worrierking, as I displayed expert fretting on subjects as diverse as the forecast, the unfamiliar course, and my bad sleeping habit, which usually gets worse when I travel and race.
Race morning proved to be cloudy, warm and humid, with a 50 percent chance of rain. I was perhaps one of the few people there hoping for the rain, as I am a heat wuss, even though I live and train in South Louisiana. Race start was 66 and the finish temperature was 70. Thankfully, the sun never came out. It never rained, either.
Met with the friends just before the gun and we were off. They left me instantly and I settled into an easy pace. I decided to make sure I was under ten minutes per mile, but I wanted run as much by effort as I possibly could, especially in the first half, to make sure I didn't bonk in the later miles. I have a bad cramping habit after mile 20.
9:31
9:38
9:54
The early miles start downhill and then head back up in miles three and four. The race starts right along Lake Erie in Fairport Harbor. Most of the terrain is about 15-20 feet above the lake, and there are many quick dips and rises on the course, although no long hills. The hills are basically when you are up on the high plain and then cross a creek or small river and you briefly go down to lake level and then quickly pop back up. In general it is a pretty fast course, flat for anyone other than someone who lives on the gulf coastal plain.
9:54
9:52
9:55
I felt like I really nailed the taper this time. I have often felt like my best race was three or four days prior to the actual date of the race. In the first few miles I really felt good. Sometimes I have a brief period in Marathons where I feel sluggish and slow. It's usually in the middle portion of the race, but Sunday it was around mile 5. I thought I might be in trouble, but it went away without me even noticing it somewhere around mile 7 or 8. It was about this time that a few people passed me, including a red-haired girl with numerous tattoos who was huffing and puffing. I took note of how hard she seemed to be working and I figured I would pass her again somewhere around mile 16 or so. I was also passed by a very cute lady who looked to be about my age 50-ish. As she went by I noticed she had the most amazingly well-defined calf muscles I have ever seen on a female human. They were not calves, they were steers. I followed those calves as long as I could until she finally was out of sight around mile 10.
9:21
9:36
9:48
Definitely feeling better here. I was a little warm and noticed an athletic looking black dude who looked my age who was sweating really badly. I decided I was going to pour cold water on my head at the water stops from that point on.
9:55
9:58
9:47
These miles measured a little long. My garmin said I was right at 9:45 for all three miles and I felt strong. Dialed in to the pace. It was flatter here, as we were away from the lake and there were no quick down-and-ups. A young girl watching the race encouraged me, saying how good l looked. I yelled back and told her to see me in 13 more miles. She said I really looked light on my feet, an adjective that has never before been used on my running form, which has been described as violent and thunderous in the past. I also decided somewhere along here that since I was going to come well-short of my PR, that I was just going to run it for the joy of being able to do it. I decided to thank every volunteer and high-five every kid. It put me in a relaxed mental state that really helped me preserve energy, both mentally and physically. The next 7-8 miles were some of the most fun I've had in a race, as I was just taking it in.
9:35
Hit the half at 2:07:51 and did the math in my head. Double that and I was looking at 4:15ish. I would be happy with that but I tend to fade and cramp in the later miles. Also here, I passed a girl in a Marathon Maniacs shirt. I was feeling pretty tough passing the maniac when she complimented me on the way by, telling me how strong I looked. Dammit, now I felt bad for passing her! She took away all the fun.
9:37
9:47
At mile 14 we got back to the lake front and started heading back toward the start/finish area, a mental milestone.
9:37
9:54
9:47
I passed a guy I had been tailing for a long time here and since our paces were really close, we ran together for about five minutes. He struck up a conversation and he ended up asking where I was from. I told him Lake Charles, Louisiana and he remarked that The Band did a song about that town! He and I spent the next couple of minutes figuring out the lyrics to Up On Cripple Creek. As I left him, the course headed off into the woods for about a mile on a crushed gravel trail. It was a nice break from the streets. If it had been sunny, the trail would have been a perfect respite as it was deep shade there.
9:36
9:39
9:25
At mile 19 we emerged from the trail back onto the streets and entered the town of Painesville, which I thought was a fitting touch. I actually felt good through here, so it would have been more fitting if the town was called Discomfortburgh. Here I also caught up with tattooed red-haired girl and she looked like a candidate for Mayor of Painesville. I knew I would catch her. Hah!
9:37
Caught up to ridiculously-defined calf lady here too. As I was passing her, two girls about ten came riding up to her on bikes and said "Hi Grandma!" Dang. They also said Grandpa had passed there about a half an hour earlier. Well, granny had some great calves and that's all I have to say about that.
We went through a loop in a State Park and suddenly I lost my mojo.
10:39
10:12
These miles (23 & 24) were back on the first few miles of the course and featured the same down-and-ups. I could not run up the hills. I power-walked them, but using the term "power" is a bit of a stretch. I still don't know if my issue was mental or physical, but I am ticked off about it. I also tried to take some salt here. As a hedge against cramping I followed my coach's advice and brought along a couple of salt packets I had taken from Wendy's the day before. I don't really subscribe to the salt theory, but she had been bugging me about it so I figured I had to try. I had completely sweated through the paper packets and the packet and the salt inside were completely wet, which made it one of the grossest things I have ever ingested. I was reconsuming my own salty sweat!
Mile 25 was a slight downhill and I regrouped-- 9:44. I could smell the beer at the finish line and felt good enough to pick it up. Mile 26-- 9:29. Last two tenths measured long (.26) and took it home in 2:17, finishing at 4:16:12. My friends from Wisconsin cheered me on.
All in all, I am happy. I think I was in definite PR shape (4:12) if the weather gods had cooperated. I was thinking 4:20 was a solid goal based on previous races in similar weather and I obliterated that. It was my third fastest time out of 11 marathons. My last three have been 4:16, 4:14 and 4:16. I am in a bit of a rut!
I am also pleased that my split was very close to even. 2:07:51 for the first half and 2:08:21 for the second half. My pacing was right on.
As I left the race after about 30 minutes of recovery with the Wisconsin contingent, I drove past mile 24 and saw the black sweaty guy I had passed in the early miles. He was looking at about a 5:30 and I was glad I wasn't still out there. I also passed a place on the side of the road that looked like a bar and it had a sign that said "Hungarian Culture Club." For the rest of the day I was hearing Boy George songs sung by the Gabor sisters in my head. "I'll tumble for you...Dahling."
I will recover and then get ready for Houston in January. I am also planning a mid-December half, our biggest local race.
Thanks for all the encouragement.
Northern Ohio Marathon Report.
I met some online friends on friday night who also were supposed to run Towpath, who were considering signing up for the Northern Ohio race like I did, since they were trained and had come all the way from Wisconsin. They decided to run it and even better, said they would stick around after the race to wait for me (they were doing the half). They learned why I am called the Worrierking, as I displayed expert fretting on subjects as diverse as the forecast, the unfamiliar course, and my bad sleeping habit, which usually gets worse when I travel and race.
Race morning proved to be cloudy, warm and humid, with a 50 percent chance of rain. I was perhaps one of the few people there hoping for the rain, as I am a heat wuss, even though I live and train in South Louisiana. Race start was 66 and the finish temperature was 70. Thankfully, the sun never came out. It never rained, either.
Met with the friends just before the gun and we were off. They left me instantly and I settled into an easy pace. I decided to make sure I was under ten minutes per mile, but I wanted run as much by effort as I possibly could, especially in the first half, to make sure I didn't bonk in the later miles. I have a bad cramping habit after mile 20.
9:31
9:38
9:54
The early miles start downhill and then head back up in miles three and four. The race starts right along Lake Erie in Fairport Harbor. Most of the terrain is about 15-20 feet above the lake, and there are many quick dips and rises on the course, although no long hills. The hills are basically when you are up on the high plain and then cross a creek or small river and you briefly go down to lake level and then quickly pop back up. In general it is a pretty fast course, flat for anyone other than someone who lives on the gulf coastal plain.
9:54
9:52
9:55
I felt like I really nailed the taper this time. I have often felt like my best race was three or four days prior to the actual date of the race. In the first few miles I really felt good. Sometimes I have a brief period in Marathons where I feel sluggish and slow. It's usually in the middle portion of the race, but Sunday it was around mile 5. I thought I might be in trouble, but it went away without me even noticing it somewhere around mile 7 or 8. It was about this time that a few people passed me, including a red-haired girl with numerous tattoos who was huffing and puffing. I took note of how hard she seemed to be working and I figured I would pass her again somewhere around mile 16 or so. I was also passed by a very cute lady who looked to be about my age 50-ish. As she went by I noticed she had the most amazingly well-defined calf muscles I have ever seen on a female human. They were not calves, they were steers. I followed those calves as long as I could until she finally was out of sight around mile 10.
9:21
9:36
9:48
Definitely feeling better here. I was a little warm and noticed an athletic looking black dude who looked my age who was sweating really badly. I decided I was going to pour cold water on my head at the water stops from that point on.
9:55
9:58
9:47
These miles measured a little long. My garmin said I was right at 9:45 for all three miles and I felt strong. Dialed in to the pace. It was flatter here, as we were away from the lake and there were no quick down-and-ups. A young girl watching the race encouraged me, saying how good l looked. I yelled back and told her to see me in 13 more miles. She said I really looked light on my feet, an adjective that has never before been used on my running form, which has been described as violent and thunderous in the past. I also decided somewhere along here that since I was going to come well-short of my PR, that I was just going to run it for the joy of being able to do it. I decided to thank every volunteer and high-five every kid. It put me in a relaxed mental state that really helped me preserve energy, both mentally and physically. The next 7-8 miles were some of the most fun I've had in a race, as I was just taking it in.
9:35
Hit the half at 2:07:51 and did the math in my head. Double that and I was looking at 4:15ish. I would be happy with that but I tend to fade and cramp in the later miles. Also here, I passed a girl in a Marathon Maniacs shirt. I was feeling pretty tough passing the maniac when she complimented me on the way by, telling me how strong I looked. Dammit, now I felt bad for passing her! She took away all the fun.
9:37
9:47
At mile 14 we got back to the lake front and started heading back toward the start/finish area, a mental milestone.
9:37
9:54
9:47
I passed a guy I had been tailing for a long time here and since our paces were really close, we ran together for about five minutes. He struck up a conversation and he ended up asking where I was from. I told him Lake Charles, Louisiana and he remarked that The Band did a song about that town! He and I spent the next couple of minutes figuring out the lyrics to Up On Cripple Creek. As I left him, the course headed off into the woods for about a mile on a crushed gravel trail. It was a nice break from the streets. If it had been sunny, the trail would have been a perfect respite as it was deep shade there.
9:36
9:39
9:25
At mile 19 we emerged from the trail back onto the streets and entered the town of Painesville, which I thought was a fitting touch. I actually felt good through here, so it would have been more fitting if the town was called Discomfortburgh. Here I also caught up with tattooed red-haired girl and she looked like a candidate for Mayor of Painesville. I knew I would catch her. Hah!
9:37
Caught up to ridiculously-defined calf lady here too. As I was passing her, two girls about ten came riding up to her on bikes and said "Hi Grandma!" Dang. They also said Grandpa had passed there about a half an hour earlier. Well, granny had some great calves and that's all I have to say about that.
We went through a loop in a State Park and suddenly I lost my mojo.
10:39
10:12
These miles (23 & 24) were back on the first few miles of the course and featured the same down-and-ups. I could not run up the hills. I power-walked them, but using the term "power" is a bit of a stretch. I still don't know if my issue was mental or physical, but I am ticked off about it. I also tried to take some salt here. As a hedge against cramping I followed my coach's advice and brought along a couple of salt packets I had taken from Wendy's the day before. I don't really subscribe to the salt theory, but she had been bugging me about it so I figured I had to try. I had completely sweated through the paper packets and the packet and the salt inside were completely wet, which made it one of the grossest things I have ever ingested. I was reconsuming my own salty sweat!
Mile 25 was a slight downhill and I regrouped-- 9:44. I could smell the beer at the finish line and felt good enough to pick it up. Mile 26-- 9:29. Last two tenths measured long (.26) and took it home in 2:17, finishing at 4:16:12. My friends from Wisconsin cheered me on.
All in all, I am happy. I think I was in definite PR shape (4:12) if the weather gods had cooperated. I was thinking 4:20 was a solid goal based on previous races in similar weather and I obliterated that. It was my third fastest time out of 11 marathons. My last three have been 4:16, 4:14 and 4:16. I am in a bit of a rut!
I am also pleased that my split was very close to even. 2:07:51 for the first half and 2:08:21 for the second half. My pacing was right on.
As I left the race after about 30 minutes of recovery with the Wisconsin contingent, I drove past mile 24 and saw the black sweaty guy I had passed in the early miles. He was looking at about a 5:30 and I was glad I wasn't still out there. I also passed a place on the side of the road that looked like a bar and it had a sign that said "Hungarian Culture Club." For the rest of the day I was hearing Boy George songs sung by the Gabor sisters in my head. "I'll tumble for you...Dahling."
I will recover and then get ready for Houston in January. I am also planning a mid-December half, our biggest local race.
Thanks for all the encouragement.
Last edited by a moderator:
Miscellaneous
Footballguy
OK - I think I'm ready for a 'just slightly better than beginner' workout plan. Is there anything good out there for taking a guy from 'run random 3-7 mile distances four times a week' to something with structure? Basically, for the past month and a half, I've been running whatever distance my schedule accomodates.
Sand
Footballguy
Really nice 5k time. Lots of improvement to be had on the swim and bike.fatguyinalittlecoat said:
BTW, there is a reason for the fancy bikes. They make you faster. A lot faster. My favorite tri here has a 16 mile bike, as well, and my time wouldn't be anywhere as fast as it is if I didn't have a fast bike. (I ran a 24:21 in that tri, too, so
)Also, I think my #### just clanged off of my spine just thinking about that water temp. Thank goodness we don't have cold water tris down here.
tri-man 47
Footballguy
It moved.
Nice report! Nice consistency in your pacing. I hear you about the late lull ...hard to know if that's physical or mental, probably some of both. But it's hard to make on-the-fly adjustments to those situations. Anyway, a solid time! Don't be too critical on yourself since your "rut" is running 26.2 friggin miles at consistent times! That's always an accomplishment to be proud of.
Hang 10
Footballguy
Great job out there
SFBayDuck
Footballguy
Great race report! As someone who likes to spend a little time on my own reports, I really appreciated and enjoyed it. And nice consistent pacing, well run race.
Looking forward to your next 2 races and reports.
FUBAR
Footballguy
Capped off the day with an 11 mile run home @ 8:09 pace. I'll miss this run as it gets darker and unsafe - combination of very busy intersection, trail, then another couple of busy roads. I'll have to run during the day instead. Thankfully my boss has no problem with me leaving for two+ hours during the day as long as it's for physical fitness.
sho nuff
Footballguy
just catching up a little...loving these updates...so awesome.
My running has been spotty...but have gotten in a few down here while at the beach.
one on the road (which went pretty well...but got out later than i wanted).
tried one on the beach this morning...tough running...but with the way the road was so cambered...my left ankle/leg needed a break from that
Headed to Wisconsin friday to visit my dad.
So far things have been going pretty good with him, just in a waiting game.
Had a more detailed MRI yesterday to map out his brain and the tumor. Opted for surgery in Milwaukee which will be Friday or Monday depending on how long it takes for the blood thinners to get through him so they can operate. Not sure what my schedule will be up there once I get in.
Likely some back and forth between there and my mom's house. Staying down at the hospital and with other family in the Milwaukee area some too.
My running has been spotty...but have gotten in a few down here while at the beach.
one on the road (which went pretty well...but got out later than i wanted).
tried one on the beach this morning...tough running...but with the way the road was so cambered...my left ankle/leg needed a break from that
Headed to Wisconsin friday to visit my dad.
So far things have been going pretty good with him, just in a waiting game.
Had a more detailed MRI yesterday to map out his brain and the tumor. Opted for surgery in Milwaukee which will be Friday or Monday depending on how long it takes for the blood thinners to get through him so they can operate. Not sure what my schedule will be up there once I get in.
Likely some back and forth between there and my mom's house. Staying down at the hospital and with other family in the Milwaukee area some too.
beer 302
Footballguy
Duck & worrieking AWESOME write ups! I think if this running thing doesn't work out for Duck he could make some scrilla on the side just writing up race reports. Great jobe by both of you, whole lot of inspiration in those two reports, great job guys!
http://www.halhigdon.com/training/
I'm a fan of Higdon's training programs. If you cant find one on here they probably don't have one for you
http://www.halhigdon.com/training/
Awesome race reports Duck, FatGuy, and WorrieKing! . Well done on the race (and the write-up) guys.
Any more (hopefully good?) news on the MRI Koby?
Para- Hoping your body just needed a few more days to heal up, it's good you're staying active though. The increased blood flow helps with that.
Tri- I hear ya, definitely good to see someone that's not only into the sport themselves but are also fans. I still follow my old HS and college teams from afar as well.
Fubar- Nice speed on those workouts!
Sho Nuff- Hoping for good news on your dad's end.
Any more (hopefully good?) news on the MRI Koby?
Para- Hoping your body just needed a few more days to heal up, it's good you're staying active though. The increased blood flow helps with that.
Tri- I hear ya, definitely good to see someone that's not only into the sport themselves but are also fans. I still follow my old HS and college teams from afar as well.
Fubar- Nice speed on those workouts!
Sho Nuff- Hoping for good news on your dad's end.
Miscellaneous
Footballguy
Awesome - of course now I remember people mentioning Higdon on here, but I had a hard time digging up programs.Duck & worrieking AWESOME write ups! I think if this running thing doesn't work out for Duck he could make some scrilla on the side just writing up race reports. Great jobe by both of you, whole lot of inspiration in those two reports, great job guys!
I'm a fan of Higdon's training programs. If you cant find one on here they probably don't have one for you
So, continuing the trend of me asking obvious questions: I've always just run 'my speed', which seems to be around 10 min miles. Sometimes I can run whole 10k routes at that speed, sometimes I can't.
That's also my pace for 5k.
What would you recommend as a starting point for 5k pace, 10k pace, tempo pace, and race pace? Do you guys have some algebra you do when setting these goals?
beer 302
Footballguy
5k - run like you are on fire until you puke. If you puke before the finish line, continue running after you are done pukingAwesome - of course now I remember people mentioning Higdon on here, but I had a hard time digging up programs.Duck & worrieking AWESOME write ups! I think if this running thing doesn't work out for Duck he could make some scrilla on the side just writing up race reports. Great jobe by both of you, whole lot of inspiration in those two reports, great job guys!
I'm a fan of Higdon's training programs. If you cant find one on here they probably don't have one for you
So, continuing the trend of me asking obvious questions: I've always just run 'my speed', which seems to be around 10 min miles. Sometimes I can run whole 10k routes at that speed, sometimes I can't.
That's also my pace for 5k.
What would you recommend as a starting point for 5k pace, 10k pace, tempo pace, and race pace? Do you guys have some algebra you do when setting these goals?
10k - If you are comfortable at 10 min miles for a 10k than you can be uncomfortable at around 9:30-9:40 for a 10k
Read some of Higdon's plans, he defines all that pretty well. Certainly much better than I can.
Sand
Footballguy
You can play with this calculator. You need one result that is at your capability and it does a pretty accurate job of predicting other race distances. In my case I've found it to be quite accurate.
---
On my end, I had a dentist appointment at lunch today, so I played hooky and took the rest of the day off. Headed straight out on my bike and did my best impression of a hill ride - 43 miles, 4800' of climbing. This is the terrain around here if you look for it - 100'/mile is a pretty attainable number. I could do 200 miles of these kind of hills here and never do the same one twice. Loads of fun until the side stitches started - that and the last hill which sported a 20+% grade for a tenth of a mile or so. Yeah, that sucked.
Last edited by a moderator:
tri-man 47
Footballguy
Miscellaneous - the calculators work well. Generally speaking, if you're running a 10 minute/mile pace (= 2 1/2 minutes per quarter mile = 150 seconds), you might try running some quarter mile repeats at, say, 130-140 seconds. Give yourself a couple minute rest between each one. The first couple should feel comfortable. If they're all comfortable, try pushing a little faster. Ideally, you'd do 6-8 of them. Or you could just do some sharp accelerations (on a track, field, or sidewalk/street). Start in a jog and consciously pick up the pace with a firm stride and good form for 50-75 yards. Walk/jog, and repeat a few times. Arms should swing forward and back; lower arms bent at about a 90 degree angle; feel the lift with the upper leg - don't overreach with the lower leg and land hard on the heel. Try to land and spring (like you're pushing off with a scooter), so you'll have a slight lean forward. By stopping and repeating, you can reassess your form.
koby - fingers crossed!
koby - fingers crossed!
sho nuff
Footballguy
Latest update from this afternoon...Dad's surgery is now set for tomorrow morning.
Apparently everything was fine for him to go earlier...and Friday was pretty busy for the surgeon and he had a slot tomorrow morning.
Going to be tough being in the car on the way back from the beach not really knowing anything for a while.
Apparently everything was fine for him to go earlier...and Friday was pretty busy for the surgeon and he had a slot tomorrow morning.
Going to be tough being in the car on the way back from the beach not really knowing anything for a while.
Juxtatarot
Footballguy
Weather looks near perfect (clear, single digit wind speeds, race time temps in the high 40s) in Washington D.C. for my race Sunday. Fly out tomorrow. I probably won't post a race report until I get back on Monday but if anyone's bored Sunday and is curious how I did, here's the race. I'm bib 1910. Official goal will is 66:30 which if I did the math right is a 6:39 average pace.
Ned
Footballguy
23rd overall
The best part is that you're still improving. Won't be long and you'll be able to run down those deer in the woods.
funny timing - I was off work Mon-Wed for the opening of archery season (got a doe on Tue).Appreciate all the comments from everyone. I'm still shaking my head in disbelief.
Ned
Footballguy
This was a tune-up for the Philly marathon (11/17). My mileage has been weak this summer and I've noticed a fade on most of my long runs. So I don't think I have the endurance for 3:15. Maybe low 3:20s......... We'll see how my final MP run goes next Sunday (18/14).
Ned
Footballguy
Duck - Holy ####! I read your RR during a lunch break while I was hunting, and wow, what a read! I was sitting there in my truck in the middle of the woods cheering you on as I read. The guts you showed over the last 10 miles shows your true character. Being able to dig deep for that long at the end of a 50 miler is seriously impressive. Bravo, sir!
worrier - great RR!
MAC - Jesus, dude. 17:41 all by yourself??? I agree with Steve. You've got a mid 17's in ya right now.
fatguy - Congrats on your first tri!
shonuff - Thoughts go out to you and your family. Hoping for the best for dad.
koby - That's great news you've been able to run and feel the strength is back. :fingerscrossed:
Juxt - Go get'm! This weekend's weather is going to be pristine. :jealous:
worrier -
great RR!MAC - Jesus, dude. 17:41 all by yourself??? I agree with Steve. You've got a mid 17's in ya right now.
fatguy - Congrats on your first tri!
shonuff - Thoughts go out to you and your family. Hoping for the best for dad.
koby - That's great news you've been able to run and feel the strength is back. :fingerscrossed:
Juxt - Go get'm! This weekend's weather is going to be pristine. :jealous:
Congrats Duck!!!**** Collins Firetrails 50 Miler
A bit of a head cold started to set in on Friday morning which set me back mentally a bit, but I hammered it with every kind of homeopathic and holistic immune booster and cold remedy I could find and seemed to keep it at bay. I managed a whole four hours of sleep before waking up for good at 2:00 AM, and watched some Bear Grylls (if he can eat that stuff I can run 50, right?) while waiting to begin my pre-race routine at 4:30. Then it was a handful of MAP (Master Amino Acid Pattern) pills, chia/coconut milk/banana/protein powder smoothie, a shower followed with a good coating of Body Glide and off to the race about an hour away.
At five minutes to race start I went to turn on my Garmin, accidentally hit two buttons at once and the screen lit up – but was blank. Every button I pushed gave a strange beep I’d never heard before, and I couldn’t get it to work. “Everyone to the start line,” they announced, and I’m panicked! I see someone with the same 310 and ask if he knows how to reset it, and he points at another guy who looks at it and says “that’s not good,” but then gets it to reset. Whew, off to the start line we go.
As per usual, I take my spot in the very back of the pack at the start line, and realize with the Garmin issue I forgot to do any sort of warmup or stretching. A couple of quick leg swings and active calf stretches, the horn goes off and it’s time to go. I planned to basically walk/slowly jog to warm up for the first mile anyway, and was able to do that with a quick stop to stretch my calves again and was good to go.
With all of the elevation gain and loss in this race (race website says 7,800’, Garmin tells me it was 8,600’!), it was a little tough to set up my pace chart by aid station. I worked it out as best I could with a window of time I wanted to be at each that would keep me moving toward a finish between 10-11 hours. The way it played out for me, the race really broke down into three sections: the first 30 miles, miles 30-41, and the finish.
First 30 miles
All in all, this segment went pretty well, and I managed to stay just barely ahead of my 11:00 pace times at the aid stations. Some highlights:
Miles 30-41.5
- The first 10.5 miles had climbs of 580’ over 1.5 miles and 600’ over 3 miles mixed in, and I planned to be to the AS (Aid Station) in 2:03 or less, and got there in exactly 2:03. Took a couple of pics up above the fog.
- I ran with my HR monitor for the first 15 miles and tried to stay 140-150, but it was regularly hitting 160 hiking the climbs. As usual, I hiked well and consistently passed people on the ups, including an 800’ climb over 3.5 miles heading into the mile 15 AS.
- Mile 15 was the first time I saw my crew – my girlfriend Heather. As I would at each AS for most of the day I filled my handheld with GU Brew, drank a cup of Coke, ate a couple of pieces of boiled potato dipped in salt, then from Heather grabbed a handful of MAP and a kiss and headed down the trail again. I also ditched the HR monitor as I knew at this point cardiac drift made the data pretty useless, and I was afraid I would just use it as an excuse to slow down, and off I ran into the Redwoods.
- Next section had the steepest climb of the course – 600’ in just over ¾ of a mile. Brutal, and starting to feel it in my quads and hammies and was working much harder than I wanted to be at this point. I started to feel hot spots on my toes on the downhill, so I took a couple of minutes at the next AS to put Vaseline on them and change socks to try and prevent blisters from derailing me with so much time left to go. Back onto the trail with another kiss from Heather, and the AS captain yelling out “are kisses considered PEDs?”
- 850’+ feet up to the high point of the course at the 21.5 mile mark and another AS, followed by the big downhill dropping almost 1300’ in just over 4 miles –quads really feeling it now. Into the AS just on my target time for some more GU Brew/MAP/potatoes/Vaseline/new socks, and I grabbed from Heather my waist pack with another bottle as I knew this hill, which was mostly exposed to the sun, was going to take a while to get back up.
- Barely managed a sub-15:00 pace over the four miles back to the top, but I had counted on this and was still on target hitting the 30.3 AS a couple of minutes ahead of my 6:40 goal time.
This is where things started to fall apart a bit for me. It was a steady downhill followed by re-visiting the backside of the steep hill from earlier in the race, and I started to fall off my pace. The quads were feeling it so the downs were slow, and the fatigue had set in making the climbs brutal. That 3+ mile stretch took about an hour, and I came into the next AS 7:30 into the race, now 11 minutes off my goal pace. Another steep downhill on trashed quads and feet that were now officially killing me, and it was another 15:00+/mile stretch that left me over 20 minutes off the pace at mile 37.
This was the last time I would see Heather until the finish. I left that AS saying to her, “I’ve got to pick it up”….but wasn’t really able to do so, mostly because the last sizable climb was heading in to the mile 41.5 AS. I hit that 9:27 in, now a full 28 minutes off of where I hoped to be at this point.
Mile 41.5 to the Finish
I headed out of there knowing that most of the next 6 miles was downhill, not overly steep or technical, with one short climb in the middle. I was totally negotiating with myself, “you don’t really need 11:00, you’re already qualified for States” battling with, ”quit being a wuss, you want 11:00 so HTFU and go get it.” The latter won out, and I decided I was going to go as hard as I could considering I had 41.5 miles in my legs, feet that were totally beat up and now blistered, and really unable to take on much in the way of calories anymore (I switched to water at this point as my stomach couldn’t take GU Brew anymore). I switched from podcasts to music to get a boost, and the next few miles were 10:25, 11:44, 11:32, 13:04 (there’s that climb), and 10:32. I had made up enough time that I knew it was in reach, with rolling bike path for the last couple of miles.
And if you look really closely at the elevation profile for the last couple of miles you can see that it is a relentless series of small rollers. Around Mile 48 I started to slow, and worried that I had started pushing too early or that the inability to keep taking in calories had caught up to me. I had been running off and on all day with another guy, who would repeatedly fly by me on flat/downhill stuff, and who I would pass on climbs. We had been near each other for the past 30 minutes or so, and he turned to me and said “are you thinking what I’m thinking?” I replied, “eleven hours?” He nodded and we both just started picking it up again – an awesome moment. Mile 49 was 11:23, slowing to walk for a bit at every little hill before forcing myself to start running again. I kept thinking I’d never see that damned finish line, but then the sound of cowbells and cheering hit, and we turned a corner and could see the finish area. I ran the last .34 miles at a 9:25 pace, and crossed the finish line in tears. I felt completely overwhelmed by the effort I had given for the entire day, but especially the last 90 minutes. The guy I had been running with came over to high five me and said, "thanks, you got me here," and I replied that he had done the same for me. Official chip time: 10:55:39.
Looking back, I obviously underestimated my ability to go a little quicker over the final stretch – I had planned on 13:00-14:00 mostly walking miles just due to the expected fatigue, but I managed an 11:18 average for the final 7+ miles. I need to figure out my feet issues – it was suggested by my friend Erika that Vaseline isn’t great because it breaks down, and I should try either just Body Glide or something called Gurney Goo. In both of my 50s my stomach has had trouble taking on anything other than water once I’m in the 40s, so I may have to adjust that as I look to move up. And I’ve got to do even more to bulletproof my quads – long, hard downhill efforts and maybe even some lunges
As for post-race carnage, my feet are a mess with a few blisters and a toenail or two that don’t look likely to survive - three days later I still can’t wear shoes. My quads are really sore, and it’s hard to walk especially after I’ve been sitting for a bit. But I seem to have come out uninjured, which is more than I can say for my last 50. I’m taking at least this entire week off before evaluating how I feel before I start up again.
I read this yesterday but knew I would want to re-read it.
Those hour long 3 mile stretches are tough on the psyche. Way to overcome that and knock out the last 8.5 miles in a sub 10:30 pace. That course is more suited for goats than humans. You killed it!!!
Regarding the nutrition. I would suggest that you start eating on all your training runs over one hour. Start with 200-250 calories every 1/2 an hour. That's more than you need, but you are training your stomach/body. Not just the fancy stuff either, real food and junk food they have on these courses. Try some off the wall stuff too. From there start backing off the calories until you find that sweet spot. Get real good at knowing how many calories in a handful of M&Ms or grapes. You may be eating too much early on. This got me during my last 50 miler early on as I was doing my gels and over did the trail mix. Felt like puking for the next hour.
Your going to want to learn to tolerate protein and fat digestion as you advance past 12 hours. The hamburger at Umstead didn't sit well with me but the fat and protein were needed. I know I'm going to be working on the coke consumption during training. It's been my experience that you want to hold off on this as long as possible. It will start a cycle of highs and lows. Not that big of deal except that you lows sneak up on you and hit fast.
Keep me updated on what you find out for your feet. I have always gone dry. Most of my events have been dry but the wet slushy one caused me some problems on the front of my toes. Of course I had blisters everywhere during Umstead, but it was more burning than pain. Hopefully our feet will htfu.
I really would like to toe the line with you at WS100.
worrierking
Footballguy
All the best to you and your family, Sho.
Juxt, good luck. I can't wait to hear the results. You will destroy it.
Hang in there Koby.
Thanks everybody for the kind words about the race. I am just about over the soreness. Looks like I will keep all my toenails this time too.
Hang 10
Footballguy
Ned
Footballguy
Man, this sounds so friggin hard core.Congrats Duck!!!**** Collins Firetrails 50 Miler
A bit of a head cold started to set in on Friday morning which set me back mentally a bit, but I hammered it with every kind of homeopathic and holistic immune booster and cold remedy I could find and seemed to keep it at bay. I managed a whole four hours of sleep before waking up for good at 2:00 AM, and watched some Bear Grylls (if he can eat that stuff I can run 50, right?) while waiting to begin my pre-race routine at 4:30. Then it was a handful of MAP (Master Amino Acid Pattern) pills, chia/coconut milk/banana/protein powder smoothie, a shower followed with a good coating of Body Glide and off to the race about an hour away.
At five minutes to race start I went to turn on my Garmin, accidentally hit two buttons at once and the screen lit up – but was blank. Every button I pushed gave a strange beep I’d never heard before, and I couldn’t get it to work. “Everyone to the start line,” they announced, and I’m panicked! I see someone with the same 310 and ask if he knows how to reset it, and he points at another guy who looks at it and says “that’s not good,” but then gets it to reset. Whew, off to the start line we go.
As per usual, I take my spot in the very back of the pack at the start line, and realize with the Garmin issue I forgot to do any sort of warmup or stretching. A couple of quick leg swings and active calf stretches, the horn goes off and it’s time to go. I planned to basically walk/slowly jog to warm up for the first mile anyway, and was able to do that with a quick stop to stretch my calves again and was good to go.
With all of the elevation gain and loss in this race (race website says 7,800’, Garmin tells me it was 8,600’!), it was a little tough to set up my pace chart by aid station. I worked it out as best I could with a window of time I wanted to be at each that would keep me moving toward a finish between 10-11 hours. The way it played out for me, the race really broke down into three sections: the first 30 miles, miles 30-41, and the finish.
First 30 miles
All in all, this segment went pretty well, and I managed to stay just barely ahead of my 11:00 pace times at the aid stations. Some highlights:
Miles 30-41.5
- The first 10.5 miles had climbs of 580’ over 1.5 miles and 600’ over 3 miles mixed in, and I planned to be to the AS (Aid Station) in 2:03 or less, and got there in exactly 2:03. Took a couple of pics up above the fog.
- I ran with my HR monitor for the first 15 miles and tried to stay 140-150, but it was regularly hitting 160 hiking the climbs. As usual, I hiked well and consistently passed people on the ups, including an 800’ climb over 3.5 miles heading into the mile 15 AS.
- Mile 15 was the first time I saw my crew – my girlfriend Heather. As I would at each AS for most of the day I filled my handheld with GU Brew, drank a cup of Coke, ate a couple of pieces of boiled potato dipped in salt, then from Heather grabbed a handful of MAP and a kiss and headed down the trail again. I also ditched the HR monitor as I knew at this point cardiac drift made the data pretty useless, and I was afraid I would just use it as an excuse to slow down, and off I ran into the Redwoods.
- Next section had the steepest climb of the course – 600’ in just over ¾ of a mile. Brutal, and starting to feel it in my quads and hammies and was working much harder than I wanted to be at this point. I started to feel hot spots on my toes on the downhill, so I took a couple of minutes at the next AS to put Vaseline on them and change socks to try and prevent blisters from derailing me with so much time left to go. Back onto the trail with another kiss from Heather, and the AS captain yelling out “are kisses considered PEDs?”
- 850’+ feet up to the high point of the course at the 21.5 mile mark and another AS, followed by the big downhill dropping almost 1300’ in just over 4 miles –quads really feeling it now. Into the AS just on my target time for some more GU Brew/MAP/potatoes/Vaseline/new socks, and I grabbed from Heather my waist pack with another bottle as I knew this hill, which was mostly exposed to the sun, was going to take a while to get back up.
- Barely managed a sub-15:00 pace over the four miles back to the top, but I had counted on this and was still on target hitting the 30.3 AS a couple of minutes ahead of my 6:40 goal time.
This is where things started to fall apart a bit for me. It was a steady downhill followed by re-visiting the backside of the steep hill from earlier in the race, and I started to fall off my pace. The quads were feeling it so the downs were slow, and the fatigue had set in making the climbs brutal. That 3+ mile stretch took about an hour, and I came into the next AS 7:30 into the race, now 11 minutes off my goal pace. Another steep downhill on trashed quads and feet that were now officially killing me, and it was another 15:00+/mile stretch that left me over 20 minutes off the pace at mile 37.
This was the last time I would see Heather until the finish. I left that AS saying to her, “I’ve got to pick it up”….but wasn’t really able to do so, mostly because the last sizable climb was heading in to the mile 41.5 AS. I hit that 9:27 in, now a full 28 minutes off of where I hoped to be at this point.
Mile 41.5 to the Finish
I headed out of there knowing that most of the next 6 miles was downhill, not overly steep or technical, with one short climb in the middle. I was totally negotiating with myself, “you don’t really need 11:00, you’re already qualified for States” battling with, ”quit being a wuss, you want 11:00 so HTFU and go get it.” The latter won out, and I decided I was going to go as hard as I could considering I had 41.5 miles in my legs, feet that were totally beat up and now blistered, and really unable to take on much in the way of calories anymore (I switched to water at this point as my stomach couldn’t take GU Brew anymore). I switched from podcasts to music to get a boost, and the next few miles were 10:25, 11:44, 11:32, 13:04 (there’s that climb), and 10:32. I had made up enough time that I knew it was in reach, with rolling bike path for the last couple of miles.
And if you look really closely at the elevation profile for the last couple of miles you can see that it is a relentless series of small rollers. Around Mile 48 I started to slow, and worried that I had started pushing too early or that the inability to keep taking in calories had caught up to me. I had been running off and on all day with another guy, who would repeatedly fly by me on flat/downhill stuff, and who I would pass on climbs. We had been near each other for the past 30 minutes or so, and he turned to me and said “are you thinking what I’m thinking?” I replied, “eleven hours?” He nodded and we both just started picking it up again – an awesome moment. Mile 49 was 11:23, slowing to walk for a bit at every little hill before forcing myself to start running again. I kept thinking I’d never see that damned finish line, but then the sound of cowbells and cheering hit, and we turned a corner and could see the finish area. I ran the last .34 miles at a 9:25 pace, and crossed the finish line in tears. I felt completely overwhelmed by the effort I had given for the entire day, but especially the last 90 minutes. The guy I had been running with came over to high five me and said, "thanks, you got me here," and I replied that he had done the same for me. Official chip time: 10:55:39.
Looking back, I obviously underestimated my ability to go a little quicker over the final stretch – I had planned on 13:00-14:00 mostly walking miles just due to the expected fatigue, but I managed an 11:18 average for the final 7+ miles. I need to figure out my feet issues – it was suggested by my friend Erika that Vaseline isn’t great because it breaks down, and I should try either just Body Glide or something called Gurney Goo. In both of my 50s my stomach has had trouble taking on anything other than water once I’m in the 40s, so I may have to adjust that as I look to move up. And I’ve got to do even more to bulletproof my quads – long, hard downhill efforts and maybe even some lunges
As for post-race carnage, my feet are a mess with a few blisters and a toenail or two that don’t look likely to survive - three days later I still can’t wear shoes. My quads are really sore, and it’s hard to walk especially after I’ve been sitting for a bit. But I seem to have come out uninjured, which is more than I can say for my last 50. I’m taking at least this entire week off before evaluating how I feel before I start up again.
I read this yesterday but knew I would want to re-read it.
Those hour long 3 mile stretches are tough on the psyche. Way to overcome that and knock out the last 8.5 miles in a sub 10:30 pace. That course is more suited for goats than humans. You killed it!!!
Regarding the nutrition. I would suggest that you start eating on all your training runs over one hour. Start with 200-250 calories every 1/2 an hour. That's more than you need, but you are training your stomach/body. Not just the fancy stuff either, real food and junk food they have on these courses. Try some off the wall stuff too. From there start backing off the calories until you find that sweet spot. Get real good at knowing how many calories in a handful of M&Ms or grapes. You may be eating too much early on. This got me during my last 50 miler early on as I was doing my gels and over did the trail mix. Felt like puking for the next hour.
Your going to want to learn to tolerate protein and fat digestion as you advance past 12 hours. The hamburger at Umstead didn't sit well with me but the fat and protein were needed. I know I'm going to be working on the coke consumption during training. It's been my experience that you want to hold off on this as long as possible. It will start a cycle of highs and lows. Not that big of deal except that you lows sneak up on you and hit fast.
Keep me updated on what you find out for your feet. I have always gone dry. Most of my events have been dry but the wet slushy one caused me some problems on the front of my toes. Of course I had blisters everywhere during Umstead, but it was more burning than pain. Hopefully our feet will htfu.
I really would like to toe the line with you at WS100.
Hang 10
Footballguy
Crazy mo-fo's.Man, this sounds so friggin hard core.Congrats Duck!!!**** Collins Firetrails 50 Miler
A bit of a head cold started to set in on Friday morning which set me back mentally a bit, but I hammered it with every kind of homeopathic and holistic immune booster and cold remedy I could find and seemed to keep it at bay. I managed a whole four hours of sleep before waking up for good at 2:00 AM, and watched some Bear Grylls (if he can eat that stuff I can run 50, right?) while waiting to begin my pre-race routine at 4:30. Then it was a handful of MAP (Master Amino Acid Pattern) pills, chia/coconut milk/banana/protein powder smoothie, a shower followed with a good coating of Body Glide and off to the race about an hour away.
At five minutes to race start I went to turn on my Garmin, accidentally hit two buttons at once and the screen lit up – but was blank. Every button I pushed gave a strange beep I’d never heard before, and I couldn’t get it to work. “Everyone to the start line,” they announced, and I’m panicked! I see someone with the same 310 and ask if he knows how to reset it, and he points at another guy who looks at it and says “that’s not good,” but then gets it to reset. Whew, off to the start line we go.
As per usual, I take my spot in the very back of the pack at the start line, and realize with the Garmin issue I forgot to do any sort of warmup or stretching. A couple of quick leg swings and active calf stretches, the horn goes off and it’s time to go. I planned to basically walk/slowly jog to warm up for the first mile anyway, and was able to do that with a quick stop to stretch my calves again and was good to go.
With all of the elevation gain and loss in this race (race website says 7,800’, Garmin tells me it was 8,600’!), it was a little tough to set up my pace chart by aid station. I worked it out as best I could with a window of time I wanted to be at each that would keep me moving toward a finish between 10-11 hours. The way it played out for me, the race really broke down into three sections: the first 30 miles, miles 30-41, and the finish.
First 30 miles
All in all, this segment went pretty well, and I managed to stay just barely ahead of my 11:00 pace times at the aid stations. Some highlights:
Miles 30-41.5
- The first 10.5 miles had climbs of 580’ over 1.5 miles and 600’ over 3 miles mixed in, and I planned to be to the AS (Aid Station) in 2:03 or less, and got there in exactly 2:03. Took a couple of pics up above the fog.
- I ran with my HR monitor for the first 15 miles and tried to stay 140-150, but it was regularly hitting 160 hiking the climbs. As usual, I hiked well and consistently passed people on the ups, including an 800’ climb over 3.5 miles heading into the mile 15 AS.
- Mile 15 was the first time I saw my crew – my girlfriend Heather. As I would at each AS for most of the day I filled my handheld with GU Brew, drank a cup of Coke, ate a couple of pieces of boiled potato dipped in salt, then from Heather grabbed a handful of MAP and a kiss and headed down the trail again. I also ditched the HR monitor as I knew at this point cardiac drift made the data pretty useless, and I was afraid I would just use it as an excuse to slow down, and off I ran into the Redwoods.
- Next section had the steepest climb of the course – 600’ in just over ¾ of a mile. Brutal, and starting to feel it in my quads and hammies and was working much harder than I wanted to be at this point. I started to feel hot spots on my toes on the downhill, so I took a couple of minutes at the next AS to put Vaseline on them and change socks to try and prevent blisters from derailing me with so much time left to go. Back onto the trail with another kiss from Heather, and the AS captain yelling out “are kisses considered PEDs?”
- 850’+ feet up to the high point of the course at the 21.5 mile mark and another AS, followed by the big downhill dropping almost 1300’ in just over 4 miles –quads really feeling it now. Into the AS just on my target time for some more GU Brew/MAP/potatoes/Vaseline/new socks, and I grabbed from Heather my waist pack with another bottle as I knew this hill, which was mostly exposed to the sun, was going to take a while to get back up.
- Barely managed a sub-15:00 pace over the four miles back to the top, but I had counted on this and was still on target hitting the 30.3 AS a couple of minutes ahead of my 6:40 goal time.
This is where things started to fall apart a bit for me. It was a steady downhill followed by re-visiting the backside of the steep hill from earlier in the race, and I started to fall off my pace. The quads were feeling it so the downs were slow, and the fatigue had set in making the climbs brutal. That 3+ mile stretch took about an hour, and I came into the next AS 7:30 into the race, now 11 minutes off my goal pace. Another steep downhill on trashed quads and feet that were now officially killing me, and it was another 15:00+/mile stretch that left me over 20 minutes off the pace at mile 37.
This was the last time I would see Heather until the finish. I left that AS saying to her, “I’ve got to pick it up”….but wasn’t really able to do so, mostly because the last sizable climb was heading in to the mile 41.5 AS. I hit that 9:27 in, now a full 28 minutes off of where I hoped to be at this point.
Mile 41.5 to the Finish
I headed out of there knowing that most of the next 6 miles was downhill, not overly steep or technical, with one short climb in the middle. I was totally negotiating with myself, “you don’t really need 11:00, you’re already qualified for States” battling with, ”quit being a wuss, you want 11:00 so HTFU and go get it.” The latter won out, and I decided I was going to go as hard as I could considering I had 41.5 miles in my legs, feet that were totally beat up and now blistered, and really unable to take on much in the way of calories anymore (I switched to water at this point as my stomach couldn’t take GU Brew anymore). I switched from podcasts to music to get a boost, and the next few miles were 10:25, 11:44, 11:32, 13:04 (there’s that climb), and 10:32. I had made up enough time that I knew it was in reach, with rolling bike path for the last couple of miles.
And if you look really closely at the elevation profile for the last couple of miles you can see that it is a relentless series of small rollers. Around Mile 48 I started to slow, and worried that I had started pushing too early or that the inability to keep taking in calories had caught up to me. I had been running off and on all day with another guy, who would repeatedly fly by me on flat/downhill stuff, and who I would pass on climbs. We had been near each other for the past 30 minutes or so, and he turned to me and said “are you thinking what I’m thinking?” I replied, “eleven hours?” He nodded and we both just started picking it up again – an awesome moment. Mile 49 was 11:23, slowing to walk for a bit at every little hill before forcing myself to start running again. I kept thinking I’d never see that damned finish line, but then the sound of cowbells and cheering hit, and we turned a corner and could see the finish area. I ran the last .34 miles at a 9:25 pace, and crossed the finish line in tears. I felt completely overwhelmed by the effort I had given for the entire day, but especially the last 90 minutes. The guy I had been running with came over to high five me and said, "thanks, you got me here," and I replied that he had done the same for me. Official chip time: 10:55:39.
Looking back, I obviously underestimated my ability to go a little quicker over the final stretch – I had planned on 13:00-14:00 mostly walking miles just due to the expected fatigue, but I managed an 11:18 average for the final 7+ miles. I need to figure out my feet issues – it was suggested by my friend Erika that Vaseline isn’t great because it breaks down, and I should try either just Body Glide or something called Gurney Goo. In both of my 50s my stomach has had trouble taking on anything other than water once I’m in the 40s, so I may have to adjust that as I look to move up. And I’ve got to do even more to bulletproof my quads – long, hard downhill efforts and maybe even some lunges
As for post-race carnage, my feet are a mess with a few blisters and a toenail or two that don’t look likely to survive - three days later I still can’t wear shoes. My quads are really sore, and it’s hard to walk especially after I’ve been sitting for a bit. But I seem to have come out uninjured, which is more than I can say for my last 50. I’m taking at least this entire week off before evaluating how I feel before I start up again.
I read this yesterday but knew I would want to re-read it.
Those hour long 3 mile stretches are tough on the psyche. Way to overcome that and knock out the last 8.5 miles in a sub 10:30 pace. That course is more suited for goats than humans. You killed it!!!
Regarding the nutrition. I would suggest that you start eating on all your training runs over one hour. Start with 200-250 calories every 1/2 an hour. That's more than you need, but you are training your stomach/body. Not just the fancy stuff either, real food and junk food they have on these courses. Try some off the wall stuff too. From there start backing off the calories until you find that sweet spot. Get real good at knowing how many calories in a handful of M&Ms or grapes. You may be eating too much early on. This got me during my last 50 miler early on as I was doing my gels and over did the trail mix. Felt like puking for the next hour.
Your going to want to learn to tolerate protein and fat digestion as you advance past 12 hours. The hamburger at Umstead didn't sit well with me but the fat and protein were needed. I know I'm going to be working on the coke consumption during training. It's been my experience that you want to hold off on this as long as possible. It will start a cycle of highs and lows. Not that big of deal except that you lows sneak up on you and hit fast.
Keep me updated on what you find out for your feet. I have always gone dry. Most of my events have been dry but the wet slushy one caused me some problems on the front of my toes. Of course I had blisters everywhere during Umstead, but it was more burning than pain. Hopefully our feet will htfu.
I really would like to toe the line with you at WS100.
koby925
Footballguy
MRI Verbal results (via the nurse just now):
Non-detached partial labral tear
Irritation at the hip joint
Some arthritis
Meeting with the doctor tomorrow to discuss treatment options
Since there's no detachment, I'm hoping some RICE, stretching, maybe PT and no surgery. I ran 6 again this morning so it was my first night/morning back to back in awhile and felt kinda tight. Then did some Yoga for the first time and that seemed to loosen me some. Being in there with everyone else, I realize I am REALLY tight in the hip groin region. Everybody else can sit cross legged with legs touching the ground. I can't even come close to legs touching the ground on that. I feel it all through the outer hip/butt area when I try to do it.
Non-detached partial labral tear
Irritation at the hip joint
Some arthritis
Meeting with the doctor tomorrow to discuss treatment options
Since there's no detachment, I'm hoping some RICE, stretching, maybe PT and no surgery. I ran 6 again this morning so it was my first night/morning back to back in awhile and felt kinda tight. Then did some Yoga for the first time and that seemed to loosen me some. Being in there with everyone else, I realize I am REALLY tight in the hip groin region. Everybody else can sit cross legged with legs touching the ground. I can't even come close to legs touching the ground on that. I feel it all through the outer hip/butt area when I try to do it.
tri-man 47
Footballguy
Hang 10 said:Juxtatarot said:
And Ned, only a doe this year? Nothing like last year's record-setting buck!
Sho Nuff- Hope the surgery is going/went well.
Juxt- Jealous, that's also one of the races near where I grew up that I want to run one day. One thing I have heard is that the race is usually 0.1-0.2mi long, (and not just from people who have garmins but don't know how to run tangents) so maybe don't be too disappointed if you only beat your goal time by 30-45 seconds.
Worrieking- Good to hear you seem to be recovering well.
Koby- Good to hear that they at least seemed to have figured it out for you, and hopefully it's not an overly complicated injury to treat and recover from. I tend to try to look on the bright side in these situations, and in this case it seems like you have identified a new area of weakness (i.e. flexibility in certain regions) to work on.
Ned- Philadelphia is a decently fast course, has some hills but I have heard it's closer to Chicago than Boston in terms of difficulty/hilliness. Looking forward to you throwing in down some solid training sessions and tune-up races in the next month or so. In fact, it's exactly 1 month away.
Juxt- Jealous, that's also one of the races near where I grew up that I want to run one day. One thing I have heard is that the race is usually 0.1-0.2mi long, (and not just from people who have garmins but don't know how to run tangents) so maybe don't be too disappointed if you only beat your goal time by 30-45 seconds.
Worrieking- Good to hear you seem to be recovering well.
Koby- Good to hear that they at least seemed to have figured it out for you, and hopefully it's not an overly complicated injury to treat and recover from. I tend to try to look on the bright side in these situations, and in this case it seems like you have identified a new area of weakness (i.e. flexibility in certain regions) to work on.
Ned- Philadelphia is a decently fast course, has some hills but I have heard it's closer to Chicago than Boston in terms of difficulty/hilliness. Looking forward to you throwing in down some solid training sessions and tune-up races in the next month or so. In fact, it's exactly 1 month away.
koby925
Footballguy
Yeah I feel partially justified that I wasn't just being a wuss. But I hope not so much so that I need surgery. If it will hurt for awhile but eventually self heal, I'm fine with that. I can run through pain. Had wicked plantar faciitis all through college. Just don't want to risk further damage or never healing by continuing to run on it. I'll know more tomorrow.
Ned
Footballguy
koby - Man, that's bittersweet news. My hips are my #1 enemy, too. Hell I can't sit indian style at all. Definitely go for the self heal route if you can. I'm very against going under the knife if at all possible. Hell I have a partially torn ACL in my left knee that I avoided getting fixed......
Tri - you need to shoot a doe before being 'buck eligible' at this state park. The big fellas don't show themselves during daylight hours until its sexy time (mid November). Of course my wife loves that I plan a week's vacation around deer sexy time. 
Steve - This will be my 4th year at Philly (3rd full). I absolutely love this course. You're spot on about the layout. It's only got a few hills, but the hills at 19-20 get me every time. I've been working on hills at back 1/3 of my LRs this year to hopefully combat that.
Tri -
you need to shoot a doe before being 'buck eligible' at this state park. The big fellas don't show themselves during daylight hours until its sexy time (mid November). Of course my wife loves that I plan a week's vacation around deer sexy time. Steve - This will be my 4th year at Philly (3rd full). I absolutely love this course. You're spot on about the layout. It's only got a few hills, but the hills at 19-20 get me every time. I've been working on hills at back 1/3 of my LRs this year to hopefully combat that.
MAC_32
Footballguy
Not sure what to call this one, hoping the technical folks out there may be able to help me describe exactly what this is and how it will benefit, but I tested my hand at a little something different today. It was just 4 miles, but I spent the run just focusing on my stride, keep the heart rate in control throughout. Good, hard stride, but never feeling overwhelmed with my pacing. It got a little hard towards the end as my legs fatigued, but I stayed disciplined and would not speed up - I would only keep the same stride pace but the length was decreasing. My recovery period was quick once I was done, like, maybe 90 seconds of moderately heavy huffing and puffing.
Did those 4 miles in just over 25 minutes.
I'm hoping the more technical training types can take that description and spin into something more meaningful. Maybe?
Did those 4 miles in just over 25 minutes.
I'm hoping the more technical training types can take that description and spin into something more meaningful. Maybe?
Tempo/Lactate Threshold Run.
In Jack Daniels terms it's defined as the pace you can hold for about a 1-hour race. (usually somewhere between 10-mile and HM pace for more experienced runners).
Plugging your worst-case estimated 5K fitness (I put 17:55) into this online calculator here ->http://runbayou.com/jackd.htm and it spits out a tempo pace of 6:15/mi. (look at that, that's what your 25min 4-miler came out to).
Coincidentally, he recommends doing a continuous 20-25 minute run at this effort as well for a tempo run. (which is exactly what you did)
Hang 10
Footballguy
Had a strong workout myself this evening. Missed my afternoon run to go surfing for a bit so had to run after work.
Kinda a on the fly tempo speed session.
Warmed up for two miles (8:43 & 7:36)
Two miles tempo (6:37 & 6:35)
One mile easy (8:09)
Two more tempo miles closer to 10k pace (6:28 & 6:27)
Mile and a half cool down (8:10 & 4:02)
8.5 total at a 7:22 pace.
Feeling pretty good about this upcoming 10k.
Kinda a on the fly tempo speed session.
Warmed up for two miles (8:43 & 7:36)
Two miles tempo (6:37 & 6:35)
One mile easy (8:09)
Two more tempo miles closer to 10k pace (6:28 & 6:27)
Mile and a half cool down (8:10 & 4:02)
8.5 total at a 7:22 pace.
Feeling pretty good about this upcoming 10k.
prosopis
Arizona Chupacabra
Damn that is impressive!!!!!!**** Collins Firetrails 50 Miler
A bit of a head cold started to set in on Friday morning which set me back mentally a bit, but I hammered it with every kind of homeopathic and holistic immune booster and cold remedy I could find and seemed to keep it at bay. I managed a whole four hours of sleep before waking up for good at 2:00 AM, and watched some Bear Grylls (if he can eat that stuff I can run 50, right?) while waiting to begin my pre-race routine at 4:30. Then it was a handful of MAP (Master Amino Acid Pattern) pills, chia/coconut milk/banana/protein powder smoothie, a shower followed with a good coating of Body Glide and off to the race about an hour away.
At five minutes to race start I went to turn on my Garmin, accidentally hit two buttons at once and the screen lit up – but was blank. Every button I pushed gave a strange beep I’d never heard before, and I couldn’t get it to work. “Everyone to the start line,” they announced, and I’m panicked! I see someone with the same 310 and ask if he knows how to reset it, and he points at another guy who looks at it and says “that’s not good,” but then gets it to reset. Whew, off to the start line we go.
As per usual, I take my spot in the very back of the pack at the start line, and realize with the Garmin issue I forgot to do any sort of warmup or stretching. A couple of quick leg swings and active calf stretches, the horn goes off and it’s time to go. I planned to basically walk/slowly jog to warm up for the first mile anyway, and was able to do that with a quick stop to stretch my calves again and was good to go.
With all of the elevation gain and loss in this race (race website says 7,800’, Garmin tells me it was 8,600’!), it was a little tough to set up my pace chart by aid station. I worked it out as best I could with a window of time I wanted to be at each that would keep me moving toward a finish between 10-11 hours. The way it played out for me, the race really broke down into three sections: the first 30 miles, miles 30-41, and the finish.
First 30 miles
All in all, this segment went pretty well, and I managed to stay just barely ahead of my 11:00 pace times at the aid stations. Some highlights:
Miles 30-41.5
- The first 10.5 miles had climbs of 580’ over 1.5 miles and 600’ over 3 miles mixed in, and I planned to be to the AS (Aid Station) in 2:03 or less, and got there in exactly 2:03. Took a couple of pics up above the fog.
- I ran with my HR monitor for the first 15 miles and tried to stay 140-150, but it was regularly hitting 160 hiking the climbs. As usual, I hiked well and consistently passed people on the ups, including an 800’ climb over 3.5 miles heading into the mile 15 AS.
- Mile 15 was the first time I saw my crew – my girlfriend Heather. As I would at each AS for most of the day I filled my handheld with GU Brew, drank a cup of Coke, ate a couple of pieces of boiled potato dipped in salt, then from Heather grabbed a handful of MAP and a kiss and headed down the trail again. I also ditched the HR monitor as I knew at this point cardiac drift made the data pretty useless, and I was afraid I would just use it as an excuse to slow down, and off I ran into the Redwoods.
- Next section had the steepest climb of the course – 600’ in just over ¾ of a mile. Brutal, and starting to feel it in my quads and hammies and was working much harder than I wanted to be at this point. I started to feel hot spots on my toes on the downhill, so I took a couple of minutes at the next AS to put Vaseline on them and change socks to try and prevent blisters from derailing me with so much time left to go. Back onto the trail with another kiss from Heather, and the AS captain yelling out “are kisses considered PEDs?”
- 850’+ feet up to the high point of the course at the 21.5 mile mark and another AS, followed by the big downhill dropping almost 1300’ in just over 4 miles –quads really feeling it now. Into the AS just on my target time for some more GU Brew/MAP/potatoes/Vaseline/new socks, and I grabbed from Heather my waist pack with another bottle as I knew this hill, which was mostly exposed to the sun, was going to take a while to get back up.
- Barely managed a sub-15:00 pace over the four miles back to the top, but I had counted on this and was still on target hitting the 30.3 AS a couple of minutes ahead of my 6:40 goal time.
This is where things started to fall apart a bit for me. It was a steady downhill followed by re-visiting the backside of the steep hill from earlier in the race, and I started to fall off my pace. The quads were feeling it so the downs were slow, and the fatigue had set in making the climbs brutal. That 3+ mile stretch took about an hour, and I came into the next AS 7:30 into the race, now 11 minutes off my goal pace. Another steep downhill on trashed quads and feet that were now officially killing me, and it was another 15:00+/mile stretch that left me over 20 minutes off the pace at mile 37.
This was the last time I would see Heather until the finish. I left that AS saying to her, “I’ve got to pick it up”….but wasn’t really able to do so, mostly because the last sizable climb was heading in to the mile 41.5 AS. I hit that 9:27 in, now a full 28 minutes off of where I hoped to be at this point.
Mile 41.5 to the Finish
I headed out of there knowing that most of the next 6 miles was downhill, not overly steep or technical, with one short climb in the middle. I was totally negotiating with myself, “you don’t really need 11:00, you’re already qualified for States” battling with, ”quit being a wuss, you want 11:00 so HTFU and go get it.” The latter won out, and I decided I was going to go as hard as I could considering I had 41.5 miles in my legs, feet that were totally beat up and now blistered, and really unable to take on much in the way of calories anymore (I switched to water at this point as my stomach couldn’t take GU Brew anymore). I switched from podcasts to music to get a boost, and the next few miles were 10:25, 11:44, 11:32, 13:04 (there’s that climb), and 10:32. I had made up enough time that I knew it was in reach, with rolling bike path for the last couple of miles.
And if you look really closely at the elevation profile for the last couple of miles you can see that it is a relentless series of small rollers. Around Mile 48 I started to slow, and worried that I had started pushing too early or that the inability to keep taking in calories had caught up to me. I had been running off and on all day with another guy, who would repeatedly fly by me on flat/downhill stuff, and who I would pass on climbs. We had been near each other for the past 30 minutes or so, and he turned to me and said “are you thinking what I’m thinking?” I replied, “eleven hours?” He nodded and we both just started picking it up again – an awesome moment. Mile 49 was 11:23, slowing to walk for a bit at every little hill before forcing myself to start running again. I kept thinking I’d never see that damned finish line, but then the sound of cowbells and cheering hit, and we turned a corner and could see the finish area. I ran the last .34 miles at a 9:25 pace, and crossed the finish line in tears. I felt completely overwhelmed by the effort I had given for the entire day, but especially the last 90 minutes. The guy I had been running with came over to high five me and said, "thanks, you got me here," and I replied that he had done the same for me. Official chip time: 10:55:39.
Looking back, I obviously underestimated my ability to go a little quicker over the final stretch – I had planned on 13:00-14:00 mostly walking miles just due to the expected fatigue, but I managed an 11:18 average for the final 7+ miles. I need to figure out my feet issues – it was suggested by my friend Erika that Vaseline isn’t great because it breaks down, and I should try either just Body Glide or something called Gurney Goo. In both of my 50s my stomach has had trouble taking on anything other than water once I’m in the 40s, so I may have to adjust that as I look to move up. And I’ve got to do even more to bulletproof my quads – long, hard downhill efforts and maybe even some lunges
As for post-race carnage, my feet are a mess with a few blisters and a toenail or two that don’t look likely to survive - three days later I still can’t wear shoes. My quads are really sore, and it’s hard to walk especially after I’ve been sitting for a bit. But I seem to have come out uninjured, which is more than I can say for my last 50. I’m taking at least this entire week off before evaluating how I feel before I start up again.
prosopis
Arizona Chupacabra
Ned
Footballguy
Steve - What JD book would you recommend (not even sure if he has multiple)? I want to branch out and learn some other methods out there. The Pfitz methodology has done me wonders over the last 2 years, but I'm really becoming a student of this sport and want to learn different views.SteveC702 said:
MAC - I think the tempo run is one of the most overlooked/misunderstood aspects in training. I'd strongly suggest doing more of those workouts in lieu of the speed intervals (not totally replace, mind you....). I've beaten this dead horse to a pulp, but you'll get way more bang for your buck out of a solid 20-30min tempo run than you'd get out of a track workout.
MAC_32
Footballguy
Lol, right, but I want to get fastER
I want to hit this year's goal so I can end the season on a high note, not a manufactured high note like last season, and create a new goal next year.
Hang 10
Footballguy
What's this year's goals again?Lol, right, but I want to get fastER
I want to hit this year's goal so I can end the season on a high note, not a manufactured high note like last season, and create a new goal next year.
Horses Mouth
Footballguy
2 weeks until my first ironman. couldn't run down my street 18 months ago!
prosopis
Arizona Chupacabra
FUBAR
Footballguy
Checked the forecast. 0% chance of rain but 44 degree overnight low. the water is gonna be chilly.
thinking of purchasing swim socks or booties. Any advice?
Hang 10
Footballguy
Which one are you doing? My training partner is doing the beach to battleship in Wilmington NC on the 26th.
MAC_32
Footballguy
Sub 18 5K - capable of it, I just need to do it race day.What's this year's goals again?Lol, right, but I want to get fastER
I want to hit this year's goal so I can end the season on a high note, not a manufactured high note like last season, and create a new goal next year.
Similar threads
