wraith5
Footballguy
nice job!
The_Man got me thinking about nutrition, and I'm curious how you fuel for an 80 or 100 mile ride. By my math, that's a 5000+ calorie workout... That would be a whole lot of Gu.Fantasy Football - Footballguys Forums
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Ran a 10k in June (2 Viewers)
- Thread starter GStrot
- Start date
The_Man got me thinking about nutrition, and I'm curious how you fuel for an 80 or 100 mile ride. By my math, that's a 5000+ calorie workout... That would be a whole lot of Gu.
wraith5
Footballguy
I really hope I get to do this kind of stuff with my boys as they get a little older!!
Sand
Footballguy
First off, 1:19 for your race is a joke, unless it is super hilly. I'm betting on 1:17. If you get really nice weather, 1:16.As far as nutrition, these century rides have rest stops every 20 miles or so. I spent about 40 minutes stopped at 5 stops to get water, gatorade, and graze on snacks during the century (and hit the restrooms). I didn't replace 5k calories, though. I really suffered at the end, but don't think it was a bonk. I just think my muscles and back had had enough. But, yeah, I think I burned some good calories this weekend. Besides, I hate Gu. Expensive and gagalicious. I'd rather just take along some Jelly Belly's to snack on if I really needed the calories.nice job!
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pmbrown_22
Footballguy
Wow. You guys are inspiring me to catch up with all of you and actually do something. A bunch of great work in here this weekend.
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Nothing too big for me guys. I am still in recovery mode as I am still feeling fatigued from the marathon. I can't figure out why, but I just don't have it in my legs much and I am still feeling drained at night even though I am getting tons of rest. I ran 4.5 miles on Friday and then 5 on Saturday. I was hoping that I would just ease back into my 6 of 7 day a week schedule and start on some lower miles, but I took yesterday off because my body just felt like it needed it. I can't really figure it out and I feel like I should be back by now, but I think another week of lighter running will do me good and I can concentrate more after this week of maintaining my mileage.
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Nothing too big for me guys. I am still in recovery mode as I am still feeling fatigued from the marathon. I can't figure out why, but I just don't have it in my legs much and I am still feeling drained at night even though I am getting tons of rest. I ran 4.5 miles on Friday and then 5 on Saturday. I was hoping that I would just ease back into my 6 of 7 day a week schedule and start on some lower miles, but I took yesterday off because my body just felt like it needed it. I can't really figure it out and I feel like I should be back by now, but I think another week of lighter running will do me good and I can concentrate more after this week of maintaining my mileage.
BassNBrew
Footballguy
300 to 400 calories per hour is all your body can sucessfully digest. Anything beyond that is a waste. By building the proper base, you teach your body to burn fat rather than carbs/sugar.nice job!The_Man got me thinking about nutrition, and I'm curious how you fuel for an 80 or 100 mile ride. By my math, that's a 5000+ calorie workout... That would be a whole lot of Gu.
tri-man 47
Footballguy
Pretty sure you're still waterlogged. Once you dry out, you'll be good to go.
2Young2BBald
Footbaldguy
I hope we can keep the discussion rolling on this topic. I have been experimenting with nutrition this spring on every long workout in preparation for July's HIM. During Saturday's 3 hour training ride, instead of taking a Hammer Gel at the 50 minute mark and some type of bean at the 2 hour mark, I took parts of each every 1/2 hour, alternating between the 2. I think this severed me well and I'll by trying this again this weekend. Typically, I get "hungry" about 50 minutes in to a long workout, 1/2 marathon, etc. For whatever reason (likely OCD related), I've felt like I have to take the whole gel, bag of beans all at the same time. Taking parts every 1/2 hour seemed to stem this "hunger". Additionally, I have been testing out eating Greek Yogurt w/ granola as pre-race fuel. There is a ton of protein in the yogurt and seems to work with my gut. Lastly, I am digging GU chomps.300 to 400 calories per hour is all your body can sucessfully digest. Anything beyond that is a waste. By building the proper base, you teach your body to burn fat rather than carbs/sugar.nice job!The_Man got me thinking about nutrition, and I'm curious how you fuel for an 80 or 100 mile ride. By my math, that's a 5000+ calorie workout... That would be a whole lot of Gu.
gruecd
Footballguy
Just finished a "way-faster-than-I-shoulda" lunchtime 6-miler at 7:37 pace. In my defense, I didn't look at my Garmin the whole time, and it felt nice and easy and under control. Should bode well for at least the first half of the race on Green Bay. Beyond that, it's anybody's guess. 
IvanKaramazov
Footballguy
Who would have thought that running 26.2 consecutive hard miles would wear a guy out?
Sammy3469
Footballguy
Like anything, it takes some practice (keep in mind I'm just a bike rider not tri/runner guy). Like Bass said it takes practice to know what you're body needs. My basic plan for any long (60+ ride) is eat a good carbo breakfast beforehand, drink a replacement drink the first hour (I use Accerlade, but any really works) that has about 300 calories, eat something over the 2nd hour and 3rd hour (Cliff Bar, etc), stop for a break/lunch which includes some protein (something like 2 eggs on a bagel), drink/eat (ie Gatorade, gels, shot block, etc) something with electrolytes the rest of the way. Everyone's different though so it really depends on the person. For instance I can't stomach Gatorade (too sweet) so I use Accelerade which has a little protein to cut the sweet. I've also found nutritional requirements go way up over 60 miles in the saddle (or about 3.5 hours). Once you push above that you really have to be aware of eating/drinking early in the ride.Also, for wraith it sounds like you need a good bike fitting. It's almost never a good idea to switch up so many parts of your bike "stance" at once. Your cleats should also be right on the balls of your feet (try standing on pedal and see what part of your foot has the pressure). If they aren't you'll be putting too much pressure on the front of your foot which may be another reason you're feet got sore. Also if you want to increase your cadence the only real way to do it is to put the bike in an easy gear and keep the cadence 100+ for as long as possible (as you get better you can increase the cadence). When riding at that cadence you shouldn't be feeling any real pressure from the gear.I hope we can keep the discussion rolling on this topic. I have been experimenting with nutrition this spring on every long workout in preparation for July's HIM. During Saturday's 3 hour training ride, instead of taking a Hammer Gel at the 50 minute mark and some type of bean at the 2 hour mark, I took parts of each every 1/2 hour, alternating between the 2. I think this severed me well and I'll by trying this again this weekend. Typically, I get "hungry" about 50 minutes in to a long workout, 1/2 marathon, etc. For whatever reason (likely OCD related), I've felt like I have to take the whole gel, bag of beans all at the same time. Taking parts every 1/2 hour seemed to stem this "hunger". Additionally, I have been testing out eating Greek Yogurt w/ granola as pre-race fuel. There is a ton of protein in the yogurt and seems to work with my gut. Lastly, I am digging GU chomps.300 to 400 calories per hour is all your body can sucessfully digest. Anything beyond that is a waste. By building the proper base, you teach your body to burn fat rather than carbs/sugar.nice job!The_Man got me thinking about nutrition, and I'm curious how you fuel for an 80 or 100 mile ride. By my math, that's a 5000+ calorie workout... That would be a whole lot of Gu.
10.5 miles yesterday at 8:15 pace. Nice comfortable long run. I'll be coasting for the rest of the week in preparation of my 1/2 on Sunday. 5 miles tomorrow (with a few strides) and 5-6 on Thursday. Forecast looks good....around 50 degrees, 20% chance of precip, winds at 10mph.
Oh, almost forgot that I'm running the Kids Run with my 7 year old nephew on Saturday (day before my run). 1K around Lambeau Field. He's been practicing with his dad and has done it in 4:53 (7:51 pace).
Gru, I'll be hanging around the beer tent...stop by when you're done!
Oh, almost forgot that I'm running the Kids Run with my 7 year old nephew on Saturday (day before my run). 1K around Lambeau Field. He's been practicing with his dad and has done it in 4:53 (7:51 pace).
Gru, I'll be hanging around the beer tent...stop by when you're done!
pigskinliquors
Dr. Parrothead
2Young: Great weekend with the family!
Grue:
sub 20:00
Already some great responses for you Wraith. For a century I typically like to stop once (around mile 60), though the last one I went without a stop. I typically take a gu every 30 minutes (= 200 calories per hour). I replace a couple of the gu breaks with an energy bar (I like Cliff) to break up the monotony. More importantly, I use a Camelback so that I can sip water whenever I want, and have my water bottles filled with Gatorade (approx. 40 oz. total). For me; keeping hydrated is the key.
_____________________
My update:
The weather was a little cooler this weekend and I got in a real pleasant 8 miler on Saturday. At mile 5 I caught up with a guy running with a Camelback (I raced pretty hard to catch him, as he had a ponytail, and I thought he was a she
). Once I caught up, we had a great time running the last three together, and I found out he's training for a 100k next month, and a 100 miler in July 
He was in the middle of a short run for him...just 20 miles.
Right after the run, my 8 yr. old daughter and I went to the pool to do some lap and drink beer/juice boxes. I started timing her for up and backs on the 15 meter pool last year, and her fastest time prior to this weekend was 32.3 seconds and she's been at that speed for quite some time. Something majorly clicked for her, and she did 5 in a row (rests between each) under 30.0 with the fastest being 28.2 seconds She was giddy about it, and can't wait to do more laps tonight!!
Grue:
sub 20:00Already some great responses for you Wraith. For a century I typically like to stop once (around mile 60), though the last one I went without a stop. I typically take a gu every 30 minutes (= 200 calories per hour). I replace a couple of the gu breaks with an energy bar (I like Cliff) to break up the monotony. More importantly, I use a Camelback so that I can sip water whenever I want, and have my water bottles filled with Gatorade (approx. 40 oz. total). For me; keeping hydrated is the key.
_____________________
My update:
The weather was a little cooler this weekend and I got in a real pleasant 8 miler on Saturday. At mile 5 I caught up with a guy running with a Camelback (I raced pretty hard to catch him, as he had a ponytail, and I thought he was a she
). Once I caught up, we had a great time running the last three together, and I found out he's training for a 100k next month, and a 100 miler in July He was in the middle of a short run for him...just 20 miles.Right after the run, my 8 yr. old daughter and I went to the pool to do some lap and drink beer/juice boxes. I started timing her for up and backs on the 15 meter pool last year, and her fastest time prior to this weekend was 32.3 seconds and she's been at that speed for quite some time. Something majorly clicked for her, and she did 5 in a row (rests between each) under 30.0 with the fastest being 28.2 seconds
She was giddy about it, and can't wait to do more laps tonight!!
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gruecd
Footballguy
Sounds good. Save me a few, OK?
gruecd
Footballguy
I know, right?Honestly, unless I start really recruiting my speed and hitting the track for some shorter repeats, I think my goal of eventually going sub-3 in the marathon is looking a lot more do-able than my other goals of going sub-19 in the 5K or sub-40 in the 10K.That being said, a part of me suspects that working towards the latter two goals might prove quite beneficial in attaining the former. Hmm...pigskinliquors said:Grue:sub 20:00
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pigskinliquors
Dr. Parrothead
2Young2BBald
Footbaldguy
pigskinliquors said:2Young: Great weekend with the family!
Grue:
Already some great responses for you Wraith. For a century I typically like to stop once (around mile 60), though the last one I went without a stop. I typically take a gu every 30 minutes (= 200 calories per hour). I replace a couple of the gu breaks with an energy bar (I like Cliff) to break up the monotony. More importantly, I use a Camelback so that I can sip water whenever I want, and have my water bottles filled with Gatorade (approx. 40 oz. total). For me; keeping hydrated is the key.
_____________________
My update:
The weather was a little cooler this weekend and I got in a real pleasant 8 miler on Saturday. At mile 5 I caught up with a guy running with a Camelback (I raced pretty hard to catch him, as he had a ponytail, and I thought he was a she
Right after the run, my 8 yr. old daughter and I went to the pool to do some lap and drink beer/juice boxes. I started timing her for up and backs on the 15 meter pool last year, and her fastest time prior to this weekend was 32.3 seconds and she's been at that speed for quite some time. Something majorly clicked for her, and she did 5 in a row (rests between each) under 30.0 with the fastest being 28.2 secondsShe was giddy about it, and can't wait to do more laps tonight!!
In case you didn't know, trifind.com lists kids tris by state, here is Texas! The kids events are what sparked my daughters interest big time (my son, not so much, be he still like the bling)!
wraith5
Footballguy
Did another 2500 yd workout in the pool at lunchtime - a ladder up to 500 and back down. It kicked my ### by the last 200, but I was a lot "faster" than I was 2 weeks ago when I did the same workout (10:10 v 10:56 for the 500). Mostly I stayed just under 1:00/50, which is my line in the sand.
My shoulders felt OK. I took some ibuprofen beforehand, and discovered when I pull my arms straight down by body (as opposed to closer to my center) it's somewhat more comfortable. But I'm really feeling them now and will need to ice them tonight.
My shoulders felt OK. I took some ibuprofen beforehand, and discovered when I pull my arms straight down by body (as opposed to closer to my center) it's somewhat more comfortable. But I'm really feeling them now and will need to ice them tonight.
wraith5
Footballguy
I use Accelerade as well (I believe it was BnB who turned me onto it). It took some getting used to but I think it is vastly superior to Gatorade (tho I still like to drink Gatorade after long workouts). I'm planning on taking some pictures of my current set-up as previously suggested and will share them to get opinions here. cadence > 100 =Sammy3469 said:
Is that what you real riders hit? It was significant for me that I was able to hit 87 last week...pmbrown_22
Footballguy
I know. I should probably just take it easier and enjoy the little rest that I am getting.IvanKaramazov said:Who would have thought that running 26.2 consecutive hard miles would wear a guy out?pmbrown_22 said:
Sammy3469
Footballguy
no, its more used to train your body to consistently to have a cadence of around 90 since in general that's more a strain on your cardio versus skeletal muscles. Basically you need to train your legs to move that fast on a consistent basis and the best way to do it is to go out every once and awhile and really ramp the rpms. Having said that, there are guys out there who prefer to bike at low RPMs (and you may be one of them), so it's really up to your body. Averaging 87 for a ride is close enough for government work especially if there are hills/rollers involved.I use Accelerade as well (I believe it was BnB who turned me onto it). It took some getting used to but I think it is vastly superior to Gatorade (tho I still like to drink Gatorade after long workouts). I'm planning on taking some pictures of my current set-up as previously suggested and will share them to get opinions here. cadence > 100 =Sammy3469 said:Is that what you real riders hit? It was significant for me that I was able to hit 87 last week...
BassNBrew
Footballguy
The top TTs will spin around 100 rpm. That said, many people including myself optimize our power and speed output as low as 80 rpm. Unless you are analzing your cadence data v. your output, I would just ignore it until base building in the off season. One of the better TT strategies is to alternate between gears/cadence to shift the load back and forth between cardio and leg muscle burn.no, its more used to train your body to consistently to have a cadence of around 90 since in general that's more a strain on your cardio versus skeletal muscles. Basically you need to train your legs to move that fast on a consistent basis and the best way to do it is to go out every once and awhile and really ramp the rpms. Having said that, there are guys out there who prefer to bike at low RPMs (and you may be one of them), so it's really up to your body. Averaging 87 for a ride is close enough for government work especially if there are hills/rollers involved.I use Accelerade as well (I believe it was BnB who turned me onto it). It took some getting used to but I think it is vastly superior to Gatorade (tho I still like to drink Gatorade after long workouts). I'm planning on taking some pictures of my current set-up as previously suggested and will share them to get opinions here. cadence > 100 =Sammy3469 said:Is that what you real riders hit? It was significant for me that I was able to hit 87 last week...
2Young2BBald
Footbaldguy
More info please. Can you gauge this without a power meter with a combo of HRM data, speed and cadence analysis? Or is it just "feel"? Among other events, I am doing a couple of sprint tris where I would like to ride as hard as I can and not care what this does to my run as another experiment. One is on a dead flat out and back track that would be perfect for this.
The_Man
Footballguy
Well, considering Sunday was the first time I even drank Powerade while exercising, I'm no expert. But I've been reading a ton about this lately, and here's the optimal plan I've come up with so far.Three hours before exercise - eat a meal with 100-200 grams of carbs, preferrably low GI (fruits, grainy breads, pasta, milk, yogurt). This could be oatmeal, a banana and/or some cereal. You don't necessarily want to eat a ton of protein before/while exercising. It requires a lot of energy to digest, diverting calories you would rather burn on exercise.Two hours before - finish hydrating by drinking at least 20 oz. of water.Right before exercise - 8 or 10 oz of sports drink. While exercising - I've heard 16 to 32 oz. of fluid per hour of exercise is the federally recommended guideline. I'm trying 4 oz. of sports drink every two miles. That gets me to right around 16 but doesn't have my gut sloshing or have me dashing to the toilet. Also high-GI carbs if you're hungry (corn flakes, Watermelon, white bread. I'm guessing gel/beans are high GI but I don't know). More important than any of those individual guidelines are finding foods that you can stomach during exercise.2Young2BBald said:
tri-man 47
Footballguy
Accelerade:The top TTs will spin around 100 rpm. That said, many people including myself optimize our power and speed output as low as 80 rpm. Unless you are analzing your cadence data v. your output, I would just ignore it until base building in the off season. One of the better TT strategies is to alternate between gears/cadence to shift the load back and forth between cardio and leg muscle burn.no, its more used to train your body to consistently to have a cadence of around 90 since in general that's more a strain on your cardio versus skeletal muscles. Basically you need to train your legs to move that fast on a consistent basis and the best way to do it is to go out every once and awhile and really ramp the rpms. Having said that, there are guys out there who prefer to bike at low RPMs (and you may be one of them), so it's really up to your body. Averaging 87 for a ride is close enough for government work especially if there are hills/rollers involved.I use Accelerade as well (I believe it was BnB who turned me onto it). It took some getting used to but I think it is vastly superior to Gatorade (tho I still like to drink Gatorade after long workouts). I'm planning on taking some pictures of my current set-up as previously suggested and will share them to get opinions here. cadence > 100 =Sammy3469 said:
FWIW, in my morning bike training sessions (60-75 minutes), I use a 2 mile rectangular route in my neighborhood (with just a few stop signs and very light traffic). I typically focus on either (a) moderate lengths (e.g., a 3/4 mile straightaway) at a higher gear/higher speed to build strength, (b) short lengths (e.g., 1/4 miles) at a very high gear and up off the saddle to simulate hill work, or © moderate or longer lengths at an easier gear but high rpm to develop rotational speed. I am also then trying to get in one longer (3-4 hour) ride per week to develop endurance. Not that I really know what I'm doing, though ...eta: I do find that after using a high gear, coming back down to a moderate gear seems easier. So I believe it can be helpful in a race to mix up the gears. A bit of harder effort at a higher gear can, I believe, set up some good speed and quick rotation at an easier gear.
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BassNBrew
Footballguy
Here's an article that covers cadence and gives some tests to do w/o a power meter.http://coachlevi.com/cycling/high-vs-low-c...pedaling-speed/
Personally I ride a TT in the upper 70's. Power meter has confirmed that this is my current sweet spot. I'll mash until the legs start to burn and then downshift and spin for a minute to give the legs some relief and load the cardio system. As my cardio peters out and I start to slow down, I'll shift back into the bigger gear and mash. I would be much better served by riding around 90 rpm, but this will take a couple of years of adaption for it to be efficient. My low rpms probably explains some of my issues on the run with cramping.
Interestingly enough we have some females on our team that typically race at 100-105 rpm. Our coach has been working with them to ride around 95 in a bigger gear and it's paid some dividends for them.
BassNBrew
Footballguy
HUGE break through tonite on my 5k course. 23:48, average HRM of 160. My previous best was 24:35 which was my only other sub 25:00 effort ever. Paces were 7'28 for mile 1, 7'55 for mile 2, and 7'42 for the balance. I really couldn't push it hard on the home stretch because the hammy I tweaked a week ago was still tender. Wasn't planning on hammering tonite, but when I saw the sub 7'30 first mile I ran a couple of quick calculations and felt a PR was in my grasp. I've been doing two things different... longer runs and I ditched the high turnover short strides for long strides when I want to go fast.
Anyone want to give me some speed work targets for when I finally get around to adding speed work?
Anyone want to give me some speed work targets for when I finally get around to adding speed work?
wraith5
Footballguy
Great job, BnB! Here are the speed targets for 23:50 from FIRST: 400 - 1:45 (7:00) 600 - 2:40 (7:07) 800 - 3:34 (7:08) 1000 - 4:30 (7:12) 1200 - 5:27 (7:16) 1600 - 7:24 2000 - 9:20 (7:28) Short Tempo - 7:57 Mid Tempo - 8:12 Long Tempo - 8:27
2Young2BBald
Footbaldguy
THANKS!
pigskinliquors
Dr. Parrothead
I also love the Accelerade 
2Young: I've looked at the kid's tri link many times. Logistically we just haven't found one that fits our schedule yet. It's hard to do with t-ball, soccer and dance classes. Both of my girls have done a couple small tri's, and the oldest one certainly would benefit from them right now.
BnB: from Runner's World your times for different distances using 23:48 per 5k should be:
1500m 6:38
the mile 7:09
3000m(3k) 13:50
3200m(about 2 miles) 14:49
5000m(5k) 23:47
8000m(8k) 39:08
5 miles 39:22
10,000m(10k) 49:34
ten miles 1:22:05
a half marathon 1:49:17
a marathon 3:47:51
I've been told that speed work should be done slightly faster than 5k pace or 20-25 seconds faster than mile pace. Thus your speed work should be done between 7:30-7:35 mile pace. You'd likely benefit more from shorter intervals than longer, as the races you've been competing at have been shorter. I'd recommend doing Yasso 800's; starting at 4 or 5, then increasing the number as your endurance for them improves. A sample Yasso workout would be:
1 mile warm-up
.5 miles at pace (7:30-735)
.25 mile slow (approx. 1 minute more than marathon pace = approx. 9:40 pace)
.5 miles at pace
.25 slow
.5 miles at pace
.25 slow
.5 miles a pace
1 mile cool-down
Yasso's are generally a really good predictor of marathon finish time as well. Once you get up to 10 intervals, whatever average time you have per 800; should reflect marathon finish time. Thus, if you can do all 10 in 3:45; you should be able to run a 3:45:00 marathon.
I also love the idea of switching cadence and power during TT's. I'll need to work on this. On my road bike my average cadence is generally really close to 90; while on my tri bike, it's closer to 85. I have done workouts at 100, but do not like doing them.
_____________________
My update:
I royally detest this time of the year This morning at 5:50 it was 74 degrees in 91% humidity :X I took my lumps on this mornings run, and want out really slow and had every mile :10 faster or more than the previous. I ended up averaging 8:28 per mile, and it took way to much out of me, for what should have been a very ez run.
2Young: I've looked at the kid's tri link many times. Logistically we just haven't found one that fits our schedule yet. It's hard to do with t-ball, soccer and dance classes. Both of my girls have done a couple small tri's, and the oldest one certainly would benefit from them right now.
BnB: from Runner's World your times for different distances using 23:48 per 5k should be:
1500m 6:38
the mile 7:09
3000m(3k) 13:50
3200m(about 2 miles) 14:49
5000m(5k) 23:47
8000m(8k) 39:08
5 miles 39:22
10,000m(10k) 49:34
ten miles 1:22:05
a half marathon 1:49:17
a marathon 3:47:51
I've been told that speed work should be done slightly faster than 5k pace or 20-25 seconds faster than mile pace. Thus your speed work should be done between 7:30-7:35 mile pace. You'd likely benefit more from shorter intervals than longer, as the races you've been competing at have been shorter. I'd recommend doing Yasso 800's; starting at 4 or 5, then increasing the number as your endurance for them improves. A sample Yasso workout would be:
1 mile warm-up
.5 miles at pace (7:30-735)
.25 mile slow (approx. 1 minute more than marathon pace = approx. 9:40 pace)
.5 miles at pace
.25 slow
.5 miles at pace
.25 slow
.5 miles a pace
1 mile cool-down
Yasso's are generally a really good predictor of marathon finish time as well. Once you get up to 10 intervals, whatever average time you have per 800; should reflect marathon finish time. Thus, if you can do all 10 in 3:45; you should be able to run a 3:45:00 marathon.
I also love the idea of switching cadence and power during TT's. I'll need to work on this. On my road bike my average cadence is generally really close to 90; while on my tri bike, it's closer to 85. I have done workouts at 100, but do not like doing them.
_____________________
My update:
I royally detest this time of the year
This morning at 5:50 it was 74 degrees in 91% humidity :X I took my lumps on this mornings run, and want out really slow and had every mile :10 faster or more than the previous. I ended up averaging 8:28 per mile, and it took way to much out of me, for what should have been a very ez run.
Bauer
Footballguy
Ran my second 5 mile run this morning, and it was really nice relaxing run. I actually prefer it over any other distance I've ran thus far. First run took me 38:15 because I went pretty slow in the first couple of miles to get the pace right, but I completed today's run in 37:14 and still wasn't gassed or anything afterwards.
Little anecdote from this morning: About 4.5 miles into my run I spot this beautiful, fit, blonde hair women running ahead of me in those spandex long pants and a sports bra. I felt like Seabiscuit catching the eye of an opponent, and just kicked it into another gear I didn't know I had after running 4.5 miles. I was able to catch up with her and it was well worth the effort. As I was doing my cool down walk back to my apartment, she passed me and says "boy I wish I could run at your pace" and I tell her she's welcome to run with me anytime she wants.
Also if anyone is looking for a good energy drink that isn't too sweet but still gives you a good taste, try G2. It's Gatorade but watered down to take the typical sweetness away that usually steers people away from drinking Gatorade. Plus, it only has 45 calories in the 20oz bottle. I drink one before and after each run, and buy them in bulk at Costco for a decent price.
Little anecdote from this morning: About 4.5 miles into my run I spot this beautiful, fit, blonde hair women running ahead of me in those spandex long pants and a sports bra. I felt like Seabiscuit catching the eye of an opponent, and just kicked it into another gear I didn't know I had after running 4.5 miles. I was able to catch up with her and it was well worth the effort. As I was doing my cool down walk back to my apartment, she passed me and says "boy I wish I could run at your pace" and I tell her she's welcome to run with me anytime she wants.
Also if anyone is looking for a good energy drink that isn't too sweet but still gives you a good taste, try G2. It's Gatorade but watered down to take the typical sweetness away that usually steers people away from drinking Gatorade. Plus, it only has 45 calories in the 20oz bottle. I drink one before and after each run, and buy them in bulk at Costco for a decent price.
gruecd
Footballguy
I actually think it's actually more useful as a negative indicator. In the example above, I would say that if you can't do ten (10) 800s at 3:45 pace, then you probably don't have a chance of running 3:45. But I wouldn't say that you can run 3:45 just because you can do the ten 800s.
pigskinliquors
Dr. Parrothead
They've very accurately predicted my marathon finish time on multiple occasions, though they could just be a self-fulfilling prophecy. I typically try to get two workouts with 10 repeats in them during marathon training, with the second one being 3 weeks and 3 days (Thursdays = my speed day) prior to the race. Whatever I'm able to average for those 10 = my target pace. For the most part, I've been pretty successful in meeting my race pace for marathons, which mean my Yasso times are good predictors.
Sammy3469
Footballguy
Geez...Upper 70's would probably kill me after 5 miles...I really only go that low on the steeper section of climbs. There's obviously many ways to skin the cat. The one advantage of a high cadence that the article touches on is that I find it much easier to respond on climbs and other attacks. Obviously that isn't important in TT. Just to flip this discussion a bit for those with higher cadences. Like the females on your team I have a pretty high cadence (it was 100+) from years of just doing elliptical and spinning in the gym (I've only been biking for 1.5 years now). I don't have the strength and have worked on it by going the opposite way by putting the bike in a low gear and going for 24 miles (4 laps in Central Park) in that one gear. That includes 2 "rollers" and 4 smaller inclines, so it builds up your strength.
I was bummed this morning that my morning laps group only managed 67 minutes for the 4 laps...we were at 65 last week. Too many of you tri-athletes in the park riding 3 wide
tri-man 47
Footballguy
Well, you're fittin' right in here.
pigskinliquors
Dr. Parrothead
He gets a fit blonde, and I follow a dude with a pony-tailtri-man 47 said:
@ Seabiscuit! I think we've all been there, done that.
The_Man
Footballguy
Been loving the cool weather here. It was around 43 when I started, though it warmed quickly once the sun came up.
A nice, steady 5 miles for me at 7:55 overall. Did the last mile in 7:27 while focusing on running smooth and strong and keeping my effort and form under control. I've done a "Fast Finish" on my last 3 runs and really enjoyed them - 7:25 for a 6th mile Saturday, and 7:14 and 6:58 on miles 8 and 9 on Sunday.
I'm really starting to think that maybe longer distances are what I'm built for. It takes me at least a couple of miles to get loose, and my heart rate usually spikes up at the start of my run. Then it comes down, often even as my pace increases, and once I hit a comfortable stride I don't seem to tire appreciably as the run goes on. Though it will be very interesting to see how true that holds as I start to up the mileage on my long runs, which go back into double digits starting this weekend.
A nice, steady 5 miles for me at 7:55 overall. Did the last mile in 7:27 while focusing on running smooth and strong and keeping my effort and form under control. I've done a "Fast Finish" on my last 3 runs and really enjoyed them - 7:25 for a 6th mile Saturday, and 7:14 and 6:58 on miles 8 and 9 on Sunday.
I'm really starting to think that maybe longer distances are what I'm built for. It takes me at least a couple of miles to get loose, and my heart rate usually spikes up at the start of my run. Then it comes down, often even as my pace increases, and once I hit a comfortable stride I don't seem to tire appreciably as the run goes on. Though it will be very interesting to see how true that holds as I start to up the mileage on my long runs, which go back into double digits starting this weekend.
IvanKaramazov
Footballguy
Go on . . .Bauer said:
pigskinliquors
Dr. Parrothead
When I'm in shape, I'm the same way. I've never understood how my HR can maintain or decrease later in a race, while it shoots up at the beginning. For cycling I expect it, as there are typically a lot of chases early in a long race, but for runs I don't get it. Most of my runs have all miles be increasingly faster, though for races I try to maintain a consistent pace. On a similar vein, for Event races, my HR generally skyrockets in the first half mile. At the Austin marathon a couple years ago, my HR reached 180 after the flyover, and during the fireworks, that were exploding right over the top of us. Thank goodness it calmed down quickly after!
BassNBrew
Footballguy
Thanks dude. My best half marathon time from a week ago was about 20 minutes north of that pace.pigskinliquors said:I also love the Accelerade
2Young: I've looked at the kid's tri link many times. Logistically we just haven't found one that fits our schedule yet. It's hard to do with t-ball, soccer and dance classes. Both of my girls have done a couple small tri's, and the oldest one certainly would benefit from them right now.
BnB: from Runner's World your times for different distances using 23:48 per 5k should be:
1500m 6:38
the mile 7:09
3000m(3k) 13:50
3200m(about 2 miles) 14:49
5000m(5k) 23:47
8000m(8k) 39:08
5 miles 39:22
10,000m(10k) 49:34
ten miles 1:22:05
a half marathon 1:49:17
a marathon 3:47:51
I've been told that speed work should be done slightly faster than 5k pace or 20-25 seconds faster than mile pace. Thus your speed work should be done between 7:30-7:35 mile pace. You'd likely benefit more from shorter intervals than longer, as the races you've been competing at have been shorter. I'd recommend doing Yasso 800's; starting at 4 or 5, then increasing the number as your endurance for them improves. A sample Yasso workout would be:
1 mile warm-up
.5 miles at pace (7:30-735)
.25 mile slow (approx. 1 minute more than marathon pace = approx. 9:40 pace)
.5 miles at pace
.25 slow
.5 miles at pace
.25 slow
.5 miles a pace
1 mile cool-down
Yasso's are generally a really good predictor of marathon finish time as well. Once you get up to 10 intervals, whatever average time you have per 800; should reflect marathon finish time. Thus, if you can do all 10 in 3:45; you should be able to run a 3:45:00 marathon.
I also love the idea of switching cadence and power during TT's. I'll need to work on this. On my road bike my average cadence is generally really close to 90; while on my tri bike, it's closer to 85. I have done workouts at 100, but do not like doing them.
_____________________
My update:
I royally detest this time of the year
pigskinliquors
Dr. Parrothead
With your previous 5k PR at 24:35; you are getting closer, but it still suggests you could be faster in the Half. Below are suggested times for a 24:35 5K'er:Thanks dude. My best half marathon time from a week ago was about 20 minutes north of that pace.pigskinliquors said:I also love the Accelerade
2Young: I've looked at the kid's tri link many times. Logistically we just haven't found one that fits our schedule yet. It's hard to do with t-ball, soccer and dance classes. Both of my girls have done a couple small tri's, and the oldest one certainly would benefit from them right now.
BnB: from Runner's World your times for different distances using 23:48 per 5k should be:
1500m 6:38
the mile 7:09
3000m(3k) 13:50
3200m(about 2 miles) 14:49
5000m(5k) 23:47
8000m(8k) 39:08
5 miles 39:22
10,000m(10k) 49:34
ten miles 1:22:05
a half marathon 1:49:17
a marathon 3:47:51
I've been told that speed work should be done slightly faster than 5k pace or 20-25 seconds faster than mile pace. Thus your speed work should be done between 7:30-7:35 mile pace. You'd likely benefit more from shorter intervals than longer, as the races you've been competing at have been shorter. I'd recommend doing Yasso 800's; starting at 4 or 5, then increasing the number as your endurance for them improves. A sample Yasso workout would be:
1 mile warm-up
.5 miles at pace (7:30-735)
.25 mile slow (approx. 1 minute more than marathon pace = approx. 9:40 pace)
.5 miles at pace
.25 slow
.5 miles at pace
.25 slow
.5 miles a pace
1 mile cool-down
Yasso's are generally a really good predictor of marathon finish time as well. Once you get up to 10 intervals, whatever average time you have per 800; should reflect marathon finish time. Thus, if you can do all 10 in 3:45; you should be able to run a 3:45:00 marathon.
I also love the idea of switching cadence and power during TT's. I'll need to work on this. On my road bike my average cadence is generally really close to 90; while on my tri bike, it's closer to 85. I have done workouts at 100, but do not like doing them.
_____________________
My update:
I royally detest this time of the year
pigskinliquors
Dr. Parrothead
It's a video of our 8 year old doing a lap in the pool.
wraith5
Footballguy
Interesting speedwork day today - 2x 3200 (2 miles) with a 400 RI.
FIRST doesn't tell me what speed to run 2 miles at (about the only distance it doesn't cover), and my short tempo target of 7:35 seemed too slow ( ), so I decided to target my target 5k pace, which is 7:19/mile.
Hit 7:19s on the nose for the first repeat, took almost 4 full minutes for the 400 to recover, then made 7:15s on the second set. Ran 7 miles overall (I added a 1/2 mile on the cooldown because I felt pretty good and just wanted to get to 7 miles).
FIRST doesn't tell me what speed to run 2 miles at (about the only distance it doesn't cover), and my short tempo target of 7:35 seemed too slow (
), so I decided to target my target 5k pace, which is 7:19/mile.Hit 7:19s on the nose for the first repeat, took almost 4 full minutes for the 400 to recover, then made 7:15s on the second set. Ran 7 miles overall (I added a 1/2 mile on the cooldown because I felt pretty good and just wanted to get to 7 miles).
wraith5
Footballguy
FWIW, FIRST puts you at a 1/2 of 1:50:28, and a full marathon of 3:51:56Thanks dude. My best half marathon time from a week ago was about 20 minutes north of that pace.pigskinliquors said:I also love the Accelerade
2Young: I've looked at the kid's tri link many times. Logistically we just haven't found one that fits our schedule yet. It's hard to do with t-ball, soccer and dance classes. Both of my girls have done a couple small tri's, and the oldest one certainly would benefit from them right now.
BnB: from Runner's World your times for different distances using 23:48 per 5k should be:
1500m 6:38
the mile 7:09
3000m(3k) 13:50
3200m(about 2 miles) 14:49
5000m(5k) 23:47
8000m(8k) 39:08
5 miles 39:22
10,000m(10k) 49:34
ten miles 1:22:05
a half marathon 1:49:17
a marathon 3:47:51
I've been told that speed work should be done slightly faster than 5k pace or 20-25 seconds faster than mile pace. Thus your speed work should be done between 7:30-7:35 mile pace. You'd likely benefit more from shorter intervals than longer, as the races you've been competing at have been shorter. I'd recommend doing Yasso 800's; starting at 4 or 5, then increasing the number as your endurance for them improves. A sample Yasso workout would be:
1 mile warm-up
.5 miles at pace (7:30-735)
.25 mile slow (approx. 1 minute more than marathon pace = approx. 9:40 pace)
.5 miles at pace
.25 slow
.5 miles at pace
.25 slow
.5 miles a pace
1 mile cool-down
Yasso's are generally a really good predictor of marathon finish time as well. Once you get up to 10 intervals, whatever average time you have per 800; should reflect marathon finish time. Thus, if you can do all 10 in 3:45; you should be able to run a 3:45:00 marathon.
I also love the idea of switching cadence and power during TT's. I'll need to work on this. On my road bike my average cadence is generally really close to 90; while on my tri bike, it's closer to 85. I have done workouts at 100, but do not like doing them.
_____________________
My update:
I royally detest this time of the year
Sand
Footballguy
Too bad she's not in my age group - I'd crush her. Seriously, like most little kids the majority of their issues come from head movement while breathing. If she can keep her head low (and thus get the rest of her body up and level) she'll be in prime position to do really well in local swim meets and such.
Seriously, like most little kids the majority of their issues come from head movement while breathing. If she can keep her head low (and thus get the rest of her body up and level) she'll be in prime position to do really well in local swim meets and such.
The_Man
Footballguy
Nice! You're still getting faster and faster.I've got 8 x 400 tomorrow a.m. with my Garmin for the first time. Will be interesting to see if what I was calling 400 really is 400 -- I just run on the street because I don't have a track nearby.Interesting speedwork day today - 2x 3200 (2 miles) with a 400 RI.
Sand
Footballguy
The Garmin isn't that accurate. It will get you close, though.Nice! You're still getting faster and faster.I've got 8 x 400 tomorrow a.m. with my Garmin for the first time. Will be interesting to see if what I was calling 400 really is 400 -- I just run on the street because I don't have a track nearby.Interesting speedwork day today - 2x 3200 (2 miles) with a 400 RI.
BassNBrew
Footballguy
Geez...I think I'm turning into a runner. Took a pass on bike ride for a 10 mile run tonite. For those who posted paces earlier, I agree with gru. 9:30 mi/min pace and the hr starting flying the last 3 miles trying to hold that pace.
It was a relatively cool night at 65 degrees but I still lost at least 8 pounds since morning. Between the water loss and a busy day limiting me to 300-400 calories today and running a sleep deficit, I wasn't feeling so hot afterwards. About two hours after my run while fixing some chow I either blacked out or fell asleep on my feet in the kitchen. Came to when my back smashed into the kitchen counter and caught my balance before hitting the floor...although my dinner wasn't so fortunate.
It was a relatively cool night at 65 degrees but I still lost at least 8 pounds since morning. Between the water loss and a busy day limiting me to 300-400 calories today and running a sleep deficit, I wasn't feeling so hot afterwards. About two hours after my run while fixing some chow I either blacked out or fell asleep on my feet in the kitchen. Came to when my back smashed into the kitchen counter and caught my balance before hitting the floor...although my dinner wasn't so fortunate.
