Ran a 10k in June (8 Viewers)

[BassNBrew]

Is their a mileage strike point or temperature where you should consider carrying water with you?

I have pretty distinct strike points for carrying water. Winter - an hour. Summer, 30-45 minutes, depending on how nasty it is.

Winter - 2 hours, especially if there's snow on the ground that I can use.Summer - anything over 30-40 min

 

[BassNBrew]

Felt compelled to share this just because my buddy and I were laughing about it on Saturday night.

There was a 7-year-old girl who ran 25:07 at a local 5K here last month. Yes, she was 7 years old, and she ran 25:07.

I know her parents, and they're both locally competitive runners (her dad ran 17:45 in this same race while pushing her younger brother in a baby stroller), but still. Unbe-#######-lievable.

BFD...I bet she weighs next to nothing. Strap three 45 lb plates on her back and let's she if can cut the mustard.

 

[BassNBrew]

You really should consider 100 runs in 100 days after the Chase. I racked up both a 5k pr and 1/2 marathon pr doing this with zero speedwork. Regardless, slow volume would be much more productive in getting your weight down. Doing speedwork while overwieght is a formula for injury.

I disagree with this. Not from a running perspective (where I'm far from qualified to offer an opinion), but from a weight loss perspective/fitness perspective. Darrin has to do what he thinks best, and I do think he courts injury if he does too much speed work, but I also think he courts injury by piling up the miles (and I think it's really counter-productive to his weight loss as it's going to overload his body with stress hormones). If he had to choose, I'd say that he'd be better served by doing two intense speed workouts a week and walking the rest of the days than by running every day. All I have is my N+1 experience, but I'm a lot faster today pushing 40 than I was when I was 30. I was doing between 30-40 miles a week back then (and still couldn't get below 225 lbs our so, no matter how much I ran). Now, I might do 15 on a heavy week. But more relevantly, I can remember many, many days where the days after my runs and workouts were pure torture back then. And I never feel like that now.

Fat loss is going to be optimized in his zone 1 heart rate zone. Work here will also teach his body to better optimize fat higher heart rates rather than relying solely on glycogen.

HEART RATE TRAINING ZONES The whole point of using different heart rate zones when training is that each training zone has a different effect on your fitness. It is worthwhile taking the time to understand the benefits of training in each zone. The value of each training zone should not be underestimated and although it may feel strange the first time you do an ergo at 65% (because it doesn't hurt and you're not sweating like a pig), resist the temptation to pull harder and just keep at it, it's on your programme for a reason. The Energy Efficient or Recovery Zone - 60% to 70% Much of the benefits from heart rate training involve the body's energy systems and one of these systems is responsible for the long term supply of energy to your working muscles. Fat is an abundant source of energy for the endurance athlete. Training within this heart rate zone - best accomplished by doing long, slow ergos, (or runs or water-work) - develops the body's ability to feed the working muscles more efficiently. The other major advantage to training in this zone is weight loss, because you are almost exclusively burning FAT. You will also be allowing your muscles to re-energise with glycogen, which has been expended during those faster paced work-outs. Underestimate this training zone at your peril. The Aerobic Zone - 70% to 80% When you train in this Heart Rate zone, you are training your cardiovascular system. Within this range, the body's ability to transport oxygen to, and carbon dioxide away from, the working muscles can be developed and improved. As you become fitter and stronger from training in this zone you will get the benefits of some fat burning and improved aerobic capacity. 75% training often feels good. This zone is also ideal for developing local muscle strength. The Anaerobic Zone - 80% to 90% This is the zone in which an enormous amount of benefit can be gained. Somewhere between 80 and 90%, your individual anaerobic threshold is hiding. Between these heart rates, you use very little fat, instead you start to use glycogen - which is stored in your muscles - as the main source of energy. Unfortuntely, one of the by-products of burning this glycogen, is the rower's worst enemy, Lactic Acid. There is a point at which the working muscles are producing lactic acid at a faster rate than the body can remove it. The heart rate this happens at, depends on you as an individual but when you do hit this point - known as Anabolic Threshold it will be accompanied by a rapid rise in heart rate and a slowing of your pace - sound familiar? Through the correct training it is possible to delay the Anabolic Threshold either: by increasing the heart rate at which you reach it or by increasing your body's ability to deal with the lactic acid for a longer period of time. The fitter you are the nearer you will be racing to your Anabolic Threshold. But beware, pulling a 1:45 split does not mean you are rowing at your Anabolic Threshold if the training you have been under-going is incorrect. Assuming you are fit you will be racing at just below, or right on, your AT (depending on the length of the race). Sometimes elite athletes can hold a pace above their AT but for most mere mortals "going off too hard" will only result in you "blowing up" half way through a race - something most of us have exerienced at some stage, and it's not pleasant. The Red Line Zone 90% to 100% In this zone you will only be able to train for short periods of time. It effectively trains your fast twitch muscle fibres and helps to develop speed. It is worth being aware that to develop this speed you must first have developed your ability to deal with lactic acid. This zone is reserved for racing sprints and only the very fit are able to train effectively within the red line zone.

My coach often puts people in a place she calls "heart rate jail" for 2-3 months. That means weeks of work in zone 1-2 and no high heart work. Darrin shold be well enogh trained that zone 1 work won't tax his body. He could also possbily get there with a fast paced walk. The point of 100 runs (or walks) in 100 days wouldn't be to beat up his body, it would be to improve his body's ability to burn fat when he does start training (speed work) in zone 3-4.This might fall in "tough love" category, but Darrin is all over the map with his goals. Probably the case of the pot calling the kettle black as I've been switching directions as the wind changes, but the guys here that have been seeing the best results are sticking to a structured plan. Gru is a prime example. That said, Darrin may have the worst training environment of anyone here based on his location. He'd probably be better off building base and cross training in the summer and dropping the hammer in the winter.

 

[Reginald Cornsilks]

59 Degrees when I started this morning - thought I was destined for my PR but I think my GPS is sandbagging me.

There's just no way I'm going as slow as some of the paces are telling me. Maybe I'm being naive, but I've been running long enough to know about what my pace is. It was clocking me in the 13-14 minute range during my first mile which is bunk and a heavily wooded neighborhood. So, I'm shuked.

Anyway - still have been feeling great. I haven't hit a "wall" in weeks now - just normal aches, soreness and pains. I did my last half mile on the track and opened it up way too much though and ended up with my left quad tugging at me a little. I'll give it some icyhot and hope it feels fine tomorrow.

 

[Ned]

Is it the weight loss that makes you say that?

Yes. Losing 5 pounds on an 8-mile run is ridiculous.On some of my 10- and 12-mile runs a couple of weeks ago, I'd stop to refill my 20-ounce heldheld 2-3 times.

Sorry Grue - it really isn't. It depends on how much of a sweater he is. For example, if you drank 3 20-oz bottles during this 8 mile run you are putting back in ~4lbs. Personally in that weather I'd still lose 5lbs. In hot summer I tend to lose a bit more than a lb/mile. You can only replenish at a certain rate, so it is well within the realm for him to lose substantial weight in this weather.(Last summer I lost 9 lbs on a 10 mile run, despite having some water along the way. That was indeed ridiculous - and a sufferfest).

I've mentioned it before and can't stress it enough. Calculate your sweat rate ASAP. It's the only sure fire way to know how much you need. My linkThis morning was a 9mi with 5LT. If this weren't happening to me, I'd call BS. This is fantastic stuff and I can't quite believe it. I woke up early and had spent some quality time on the throne. My guts were a mess. I didn't think I'd be able to run. After 20 minutes of giving birth, I finally got out and was late. So that had me in a hurry. For the first 2 warmpup miles, I went out faster than I had been in the past and thought for sure I'd pay the price.

It was cool this morning, but humid - 66 and 92%. I was expecting to crash/burn, but it never happened. I'm floored.

LT is 159-176.5

3 - 162 @ 7:59

4 - 168 @ 7:57

5 - 170 @ 7:59

6 - 173 @ 7:56

7 - 173 @ 7:56

2 cooldown miles and I my HR dropped right back into the mid 150s and I felt totally refreshed.

 

[IvanKaramazov]

Is it the weight loss that makes you say that?

Yes. Losing 5 pounds on an 8-mile run is ridiculous.On some of my 10- and 12-mile runs a couple of weeks ago, I'd stop to refill my 20-ounce heldheld 2-3 times.

Sorry Grue - it really isn't. It depends on how much of a sweater he is. For example, if you drank 3 20-oz bottles during this 8 mile run you are putting back in ~4lbs. Personally in that weather I'd still lose 5lbs. In hot summer I tend to lose a bit more than a lb/mile. You can only replenish at a certain rate, so it is well within the realm for him to lose substantial weight in this weather.(Last summer I lost 9 lbs on a 10 mile run, despite having some water along the way. That was indeed ridiculous - and a sufferfest).

Fair enough, but we should all be able to agree that proposis isn't drinking enough. When you're resorting to psychological tricks like running with water in your mouth so you don't feel so thirsty, you need to drink way more.

 

[BassNBrew]

Is it the weight loss that makes you say that?

Yes. Losing 5 pounds on an 8-mile run is ridiculous.On some of my 10- and 12-mile runs a couple of weeks ago, I'd stop to refill my 20-ounce heldheld 2-3 times.

Sorry Grue - it really isn't. It depends on how much of a sweater he is. For example, if you drank 3 20-oz bottles during this 8 mile run you are putting back in ~4lbs. Personally in that weather I'd still lose 5lbs. In hot summer I tend to lose a bit more than a lb/mile. You can only replenish at a certain rate, so it is well within the realm for him to lose substantial weight in this weather.(Last summer I lost 9 lbs on a 10 mile run, despite having some water along the way. That was indeed ridiculous - and a sufferfest).

Fair enough, but we should all be able to agree that proposis isn't drinking enough. When you're resorting to psychological tricks like running with water in your mouth so you don't feel so thirsty, you need to drink way more.

Agreed.Now let's figure out a way to comfortably carry 20 lbs of water with us on a run.

 

[pigskinliquors]

Now let's figure out a way to comfortably carry 20 lbs of water with us on a run.

It's more difficult than most would think.

 

[scoobygang]

Fat loss is going to be optimized in his zone 1 heart rate zone. Work here will also teach his body to better optimize fat higher heart rates rather than relying solely on glycogen.My coach often puts people in a place she calls "heart rate jail" for 2-3 months. That means weeks of work in zone 1-2 and no high heart work. Darrin shold be well enogh trained that zone 1 work won't tax his body. He could also possbily get there with a fast paced walk. The point of 100 runs (or walks) in 100 days wouldn't be to beat up his body, it would be to improve his body's ability to burn fat when he does start training (speed work) in zone 3-4.This might fall in "tough love" category, but Darrin is all over the map with his goals. Probably the case of the pot calling the kettle black as I've been switching directions as the wind changes, but the guys here that have been seeing the best results are sticking to a structured plan. Gru is a prime example. That said, Darrin may have the worst training environment of anyone here based on his location. He'd probably be better off building base and cross training in the summer and dropping the hammer in the winter.

As you point out, Darrin isn't going to do "100 runs in 100 days" and still stay in zone 1. To the extent that you want him to focus on prolonged exercise in Zone 1, I agree with that advice, which is why I think he should walk more and run less. Research has also shown very short high intensity interval training in zone 5 is more beneficial for later fat loss than sustained steady-state cardio in the zone 3 and zone 4 range. If your advice were "10,000 steps a day for 100 days (with a few cardio sprint programs thrown in when you feel up to it)" I would endorse that plan whole heartedly. I agree that some of the weight loss goal runners have goals that are all over the map. Frankly, I don't think there's much they can take from someone like grue (who's results are certainly impressive), anymore than I have anything of value to say to someone looking to qualify for Boston. Our goals and abilities are just far too different. Keeping in mind that I'm far from an expert on running, I do think I have some insight into trying to add exercise while losing a lot of weight or after losing it. I personally don't think it's particularly feasible to plan on consistently 1)losing weight, 2) improving your mile times, and 3) adding distance all at the same time, particularly if your weight loss goals are sizable. If I wanted to get faster, I'd train for 5Ks. If I wanted to complete a half-marathon, I think I'd just try to do the Penguin thing (at least the first time). But I don't think I'd be working constantly on both, particularly as a beginner (and I essentially count myself as one). The goals don't align the way people to expect them to. Right now, I'm making some pretty massive fitness gains, both in cardio and in strength training. I'm not really losing weight.I also think that to a certain extent it's better to listen to your body than to follow a one-size fits all plan. If prosopsis has to run 13:30 miles to keep his heartrate down in that heat, why not walk? It seems to me that he's forcing his body into the most awkward unnatural cadence there is (I really struggle to either walk or jog at 4.5 mph, it's just a weird speed). If I lived in the desert, I suppose I'd make winter my training months and summer my maintenance months (or I'd have a gym membership). Mabye focus on eating cleanly, doing a lot of walking and the occassional 20 minute sprint workout to minimize the impact of the heat. This is a runner's thread, so I'm not here to crap on all the people who are seeing the results and happiness they want from increasing their mileage. Obviously that works for some people, some of my friends among them. I just don't think it works for everyone.

 

[Sand]

My coach often puts people in a place she calls "heart rate jail" for 2-3 months. That means weeks of work in zone 1-2 and no high heart work. Darrin shold be well enogh trained that zone 1 work won't tax his body. He could also possbily get there with a fast paced walk. The point of 100 runs (or walks) in 100 days wouldn't be to beat up his body, it would be to improve his body's ability to burn fat when he does start training (speed work) in zone 3-4.

I'd fire your coach on the spot for that. Zone 1-2 for weeks? #### that.

Agreed.Now let's figure out a way to comfortably carry 20 lbs of water with us on a run.

Easy - let's just strap it on that 8 year old. She can be our water Sherpa.And as far as a general comment on Darrin (why that has become a topic of conversation I don't know) I say "rock on". He is getting faster and leaner. He is putting in good work despite being in a pretty tough area to run. Nothing wrong with just running without a structured plan. I've never been on a structured plan and my races have been turning out pretty well lately.

 

[SteelCurtain]

Is it the weight loss that makes you say that?

Yes. Losing 5 pounds on an 8-mile run is ridiculous.On some of my 10- and 12-mile runs a couple of weeks ago, I'd stop to refill my 20-ounce heldheld 2-3 times.

Sorry Grue - it really isn't. It depends on how much of a sweater he is. For example, if you drank 3 20-oz bottles during this 8 mile run you are putting back in ~4lbs. Personally in that weather I'd still lose 5lbs. In hot summer I tend to lose a bit more than a lb/mile. You can only replenish at a certain rate, so it is well within the realm for him to lose substantial weight in this weather.(Last summer I lost 9 lbs on a 10 mile run, despite having some water along the way. That was indeed ridiculous - and a sufferfest).

I've mentioned it before and can't stress it enough. Calculate your sweat rate ASAP. It's the only sure fire way to know how much you need. My linkThis morning was a 9mi with 5LT. If this weren't happening to me, I'd call BS. This is fantastic stuff and I can't quite believe it. I woke up early and had spent some quality time on the throne. My guts were a mess. I didn't think I'd be able to run. After 20 minutes of giving birth, I finally got out and was late. So that had me in a hurry. For the first 2 warmpup miles, I went out faster than I had been in the past and thought for sure I'd pay the price.

It was cool this morning, but humid - 66 and 92%. I was expecting to crash/burn, but it never happened. I'm floored.

LT is 159-176.5

3 - 162 @ 7:59

4 - 168 @ 7:57

5 - 170 @ 7:59

6 - 173 @ 7:56

7 - 173 @ 7:56

2 cooldown miles and I my HR dropped right back into the mid 150s and I felt totally refreshed.

One word --> Awesome!

 

[tri-man 47]

My coach often puts people in a place she calls "heart rate jail" for 2-3 months. That means weeks of work in zone 1-2 and no high heart work. Darrin shold be well enogh trained that zone 1 work won't tax his body. He could also possbily get there with a fast paced walk. The point of 100 runs (or walks) in 100 days wouldn't be to beat up his body, it would be to improve his body's ability to burn fat when he does start training (speed work) in zone 3-4.

I'd fire your coach on the spot for that. Zone 1-2 for weeks? #### that.

Me too - it really should be for a couple/few months, not weeks. I believe in the benefits from Zone 1/2 training. I would say the key is to recognize if you're running slow, you're doing it for a specific reason. I think two common mistakes for runners is (1) not patiently putting in the long, slow miles and/or (2) not breaking out of that pattern at some point to move to a higher plateau of fitness and performance. The latter could be done by focused training for races while 'in season' or through cross-training to add more strength and flexibility.6 miles for me today with two hard miles thrown in early and late (6:40/mi for each).

 

[BassNBrew]

My coach often puts people in a place she calls "heart rate jail" for 2-3 months. That means weeks of work in zone 1-2 and no high heart work. Darrin shold be well enogh trained that zone 1 work won't tax his body. He could also possbily get there with a fast paced walk. The point of 100 runs (or walks) in 100 days wouldn't be to beat up his body, it would be to improve his body's ability to burn fat when he does start training (speed work) in zone 3-4.

I'd fire your coach on the spot for that. Zone 1-2 for weeks? #### that.

Agreed.Now let's figure out a way to comfortably carry 20 lbs of water with us on a run.

Easy - let's just strap it on that 8 year old. She can be our water Sherpa.And as far as a general comment on Darrin (why that has become a topic of conversation I don't know) I say "rock on". He is getting faster and leaner. He is putting in good work despite being in a pretty tough area to run. Nothing wrong with just running without a structured plan. I've never been on a structured plan and my races have been turning out pretty well lately.

It wasn't by plan, but I pretty much spent March thru early July strictly in zone 1-2 when I was marathon training. The theory behind hr jail is that when you do go back to zone 4 work or race, your body will be more adapt at using fat as a fuel source rather than glycogen which is limited in supply. Base building and periodization are pretty common in most longer term training plans.Regarding your last thought, I didn't convey what I meant to say very well. I wasn't talking about structured training plans as much as a structured "A" event plans. I was just trying to offer some training suggestions which has led to a conversation between me and scooby on different ways to crack that nut. I do hope he posts some of the research that he's seen.lol at the water sherpa. The best part about doing formal events (especially running) is not having to drag water around. We're not too far away from a break in the heat.

 

[BassNBrew]

It was cool this morning, but humid - 66 and 92%. I was expecting to crash/burn, but it never happened. I'm floored.LT is 159-176.53 - 162 @ 7:594 - 168 @ 7:575 - 170 @ 7:596 - 173 @ 7:567 - 173 @ 7:562 cooldown miles and I my HR dropped right back into the mid 150s and I felt totally refreshed.

Amazing consistancy Ned. You've been knocking it out of the park.

 

[gruecd]

As you point out, Darrin isn't going to do "100 runs in 100 days" and still stay in zone 1. To the extent that you want him to focus on prolonged exercise in Zone 1, I agree with that advice, which is why I think he should walk more and run less. Research has also shown very short high intensity interval training in zone 5 is more beneficial for later fat loss than sustained steady-state cardio in the zone 3 and zone 4 range. If your advice were "10,000 steps a day for 100 days (with a few cardio sprint programs thrown in when you feel up to it)" I would endorse that plan whole heartedly.

I agree that some of the weight loss goal runners have goals that are all over the map. Frankly, I don't think there's much they can take from someone like grue (who's results are certainly impressive), anymore than I have anything of value to say to someone looking to qualify for Boston. Our goals and abilities are just far too different.

Keeping in mind that I'm far from an expert on running, I do think I have some insight into trying to add exercise while losing a lot of weight or after losing it. I personally don't think it's particularly feasible to plan on consistently 1)losing weight, 2) improving your mile times, and 3) adding distance all at the same time, particularly if your weight loss goals are sizable. If I wanted to get faster, I'd train for 5Ks. If I wanted to complete a half-marathon, I think I'd just try to do the Penguin thing (at least the first time). But I don't think I'd be working constantly on both, particularly as a beginner (and I essentially count myself as one). The goals don't align the way people to expect them to. Right now, I'm making some pretty massive fitness gains, both in cardio and in strength training. I'm not really losing weight.

I also think that to a certain extent it's better to listen to your body than to follow a one-size fits all plan. If prosopsis has to run 13:30 miles to keep his heartrate down in that heat, why not walk? It seems to me that he's forcing his body into the most awkward unnatural cadence there is (I really struggle to either walk or jog at 4.5 mph, it's just a weird speed). If I lived in the desert, I suppose I'd make winter my training months and summer my maintenance months (or I'd have a gym membership). Mabye focus on eating cleanly, doing a lot of walking and the occassional 20 minute sprint workout to minimize the impact of the heat. This is a runner's thread, so I'm not here to crap on all the people who are seeing the results and happiness they want from increasing their mileage. Obviously that works for some people, some of my friends among them. I just don't think it works for everyone.

Really , Scooby.

 

[BassNBrew]

Went out for 10 easy miles as a follow up to Sunday's 14 mile death march.

1 - 9:39 pace, 134 hr

Even when I try to start off slow I Sand it.

2 - 10:05, 138

3 - 9:58, 142

4 - 10:09, 138

Took a detour to the college track and the softer rubber surface for the next 4 miles. I was thinking about Ivan's enduro efforts during this time. They shut the lights off after about a mile. There was a hose stretched across the track ont he backside and dang it if that thing didn't trip me up 4 times.

5 - 10:06, 141

6 - 9:49, 142

7 - 10:12, 143

8 - 9:57, 146

Exited the track for the 2 miles home at a 10:00 pace average.

9 - 9:17, 148

10 - 9:32, 148

Caught a second wind and was enjoying the run so much I decided to add in an extra 2 miles.

11 - 9:29, 146

12 - 9:43, 146

Still feeling good so I decided to do 2 more miles and see if I could better Sunday's results.

13 - 9:38, 148

14 - 9:43, 148

Total - 14 miles, 144 average hr, 9:48 pace

Ivan, I gained a lot of respect for your longer track runs. As soon as I got off that track I felt like I was flying. Not sure I could do double digits on the track and keep my pace up. Those miles just seemed longer. How do you do it?

 

[sho nuff]

Felt compelled to share this just because my buddy and I were laughing about it on Saturday night.

There was a 7-year-old girl who ran 25:07 at a local 5K here last month. Yes, she was 7 years old, and she ran 25:07.

I know her parents, and they're both locally competitive runners (her dad ran 17:45 in this same race while pushing her younger brother in a baby stroller), but still. Unbe-#######-lievable.

The first one I did I got beat by 2 8 year olds and at least one 11 year old.The one 8 year old (boy) and 11 year old girl were brother/sister. They and their parents ran about a 24:35 I think.

The other 8 year old boy finished just ahead of me with his dad.

Ok, I was a bit off here.8 year old boy #1 finished at 23:53...his sister is 9 and finished at 27:25

The other 8 year old boy finished at 28:44 (Id smoke him now and catch her too )

 

[IvanKaramazov]

Ivan, I gained a lot of respect for your longer track runs. As soon as I got off that track I felt like I was flying. Not sure I could do double digits on the track and keep my pace up. Those miles just seemed longer. How do you do it?

I'm being 100% serious when I say that I have an extremely high tolerance for boredom. Or to put it differently, I just don't get bored easily. 2+ hours on a track doesn't bother me at all. I'm also the guy who can sit down for a four hour flight, open a book, and not look up until the final descent, and the guy who drives 13+ hours solo without stopping for more than 15 minutes at a time when I need to refill the gas tank (that last example is tougher on me now than it used to be). ________Anyway, I got in 10 easy miles today. Tomorrow is a SDO, and then I'm going to have to do 16 on Thursday because my Friday is booked solid and my wife is running long on Saturday which means that I can't. Classes don't start for two more weeks, so I can still come into the office pretty late.

 

[sho nuff]

Ivan, I gained a lot of respect for your longer track runs. As soon as I got off that track I felt like I was flying. Not sure I could do double digits on the track and keep my pace up. Those miles just seemed longer. How do you do it?

I'm being 100% serious when I say that I have an extremely high tolerance for boredom. Or to put it differently, I just don't get bored easily. 2+ hours on a track doesn't bother me at all. I'm also the guy who can sit down for a four hour flight, open a book, and not look up until the final descent, and the guy who drives 13+ hours solo without stopping for more than 15 minutes at a time when I need to refill the gas tank (that last example is tougher on me now than it used to be). ________Anyway, I got in 10 easy miles today. Tomorrow is a SDO, and then I'm going to have to do 16 on Thursday because my Friday is booked solid and my wife is running long on Saturday which means that I can't. Classes don't start for two more weeks, so I can still come into the office pretty late.

I can do some of that (the driving thing for sure...trip to Disney with barely any music since the kids and wife are asleep...sometimes one headphone and the ipod in...or when the kids are watching a movie)...but for some reason, track running for longer distances just does not work. And I am even ok on the TM where others aren't.

 

[Sand]

My coach often puts people in a place she calls "heart rate jail" for 2-3 months. That means weeks of work in zone 1-2 and no high heart work. Darrin shold be well enogh trained that zone 1 work won't tax his body. He could also possbily get there with a fast paced walk. The point of 100 runs (or walks) in 100 days wouldn't be to beat up his body, it would be to improve his body's ability to burn fat when he does start training (speed work) in zone 3-4.

I'd fire your coach on the spot for that. Zone 1-2 for weeks? #### that.

Me too - it really should be for a couple/few months, not weeks. I believe in the benefits from Zone 1/2 training.

Months? Double #### that!

Went out for 10 easy miles as a follow up to Sunday's 14 mile death march.1 - 9:39 pace, 134 hr Even when I try to start off slow I Sand it.

Took a detour to the college track and the softer rubber surface for the next 4 miles. I was thinking about Ivan's enduro efforts during this time. They shut the lights off after about a mile. There was a hose stretched across the track ont he backside and dang it if that thing didn't trip me up 4 times.

(Evidently I have nothing interesting so say today, so I'm just picking on everyone else. I do have a hammerfest ride tonight, though.)

 

[Reginald Cornsilks]

So...

now that I can hit 4 miles consistently 3-4 days a week, and hover around 9-10:30 minute mile, who can point me in the direction of a training plan to ramp things up to the 10K range? Ultimate goal is half marathon next spring

 

[IvanKaramazov]

So...

now that I can hit 4 miles consistently 3-4 days a week, and hover around 9-10:30 minute mile, who can point me in the direction of a training plan to ramp things up to the 10K range? Ultimate goal is half marathon next spring

HigdonI'm guessing you're somewhere between the Novice and Intermediate plans.

 

[BassNBrew]

Took a detour to the college track and the softer rubber surface for the next 4 miles. I was thinking about Ivan's enduro efforts during this time. They shut the lights off after about a mile. There was a hose stretched across the track ont he backside and dang it if that thing didn't trip me up 4 times.

(Evidently I have nothing interesting so say today, so I'm just picking on everyone else. I do have a hammerfest ride tonight, though.)

I was laughing at myself too. I'd trip on it and then remember it for 2-3 laps and then drift off into lala land and nearly bust my ### on it again.

 

[The Duff Man]

Ned -

Normally it is my own hose I am tripping on. Ba-dum-dum Ching!

10k today. I ran 21 miles last week, eleven weeks out from my half marathon. I have been running fairly consistently since Jan, averaging I guess 12-13 miles a week but getting as high as 27 miles in a week when I was training for my June 10k. The guy at the local running place said he thought I was running too much in a week.

 

[Darrinll40]

Ooh, but I did buy a bunch of running stuff tonight. Got a pair of New Balance 890s for only $62 from Running Warehouse (25% off) using this link and bought four pairs of Asics running shorts from Eastbay for $80.

I will now have 5 pairs of unused running shoes in my closet. I have a problem.

Thanks for the link. I bought pair of Brooks for 54.01.

I went to the gym this morning to run for a 1 hour easy run. I got in at least 5.6 miles. after about 30 minutes the damn treadmill got a stuck key and reset everything. I started at 10:42 (5.6mph) m/m moved it up to 10:33 (5.7) after about 15 minutes. I did the last 30 at 5.7. I should have probably gone faster because it felt effortless. Afterward I wasn't even breathing hard.

I decided for sure that once the chase is over I am going to concentrate on shorter distance races for the next year. I want to work on getting my wieght down further and get a lot faster before I try to tackle another half or a full marathon.

You really should consider 100 runs in 100 days after the Chase. I racked up both a 5k pr and 1/2 marathon pr doing this with zero speedwork. Regardless, slow volume would be much more productive in getting your weight down. Doing speedwork while overwieght is a formula for injury.

Sorry, I've been busy at work lately. Teachers are back this week and they like to ruin computers. I am very aware of the chance of injury, but in the 5 years I have been running the worst thing to happen to me are leg cramps. And, as much as I claim to be way overweight, I am actually only about 20 pounds over where I want to be. I am not really doing the speedwork to lose weight, I am doing it to run faster. And it is working. Running 100 days in a row sounds horrible to me, I like to take a lot of rest days every week. BnB thanks for the advice, and I will keep it in mind. I only do the speed stuff on Tues/Thur, I do nice slow runs on the weekend.

Today was interval day, plus I had a non-stop day at work. I only tried to tell myself 2 or 3 times today that I was too tired to run, but as usual I showed up at the gym as planned.

Warmed up with a 1/2 mile at 10:42, then hit 1/2 mile intervals with 1/4 mile rests.

At the 2.5 mile mark I increased it to 8 m/m for a 1/4, that was fun. Finished the 4 miles in 38:25

 

[Darrinll40]

59 Degrees when I started this morning - thought I was destined for my PR but I think my GPS is sandbagging me.

I don't hate anything, but this makes me come close.

 

[Darrinll40]

You really should consider 100 runs in 100 days after the Chase. I racked up both a 5k pr and 1/2 marathon pr doing this with zero speedwork. Regardless, slow volume would be much more productive in getting your weight down. Doing speedwork while overwieght is a formula for injury.

I disagree with this. Not from a running perspective (where I'm far from qualified to offer an opinion), but from a weight loss perspective/fitness perspective. Darrin has to do what he thinks best, and I do think he courts injury if he does too much speed work, but I also think he courts injury by piling up the miles (and I think it's really counter-productive to his weight loss as it's going to overload his body with stress hormones). If he had to choose, I'd say that he'd be better served by doing two intense speed workouts a week and walking the rest of the days than by running every day.

All I have is my N+1 experience, but I'm a lot faster today pushing 40 than I was when I was 30. I was doing between 30-40 miles a week back then (and still couldn't get below 225 lbs our so, no matter how much I ran). Now, I might do 15 on a heavy week. But more relevantly, I can remember many, many days where the days after my runs and workouts were pure torture back then. And I never feel like that now.

Fat loss is going to be optimized in his zone 1 heart rate zone. Work here will also teach his body to better optimize fat higher heart rates rather than relying solely on glycogen.

HEART RATE TRAINING ZONES

The whole point of using different heart rate zones when training is that each training zone has a different effect on your fitness. It is worthwhile taking the time to understand the benefits of training in each zone.

The value of each training zone should not be underestimated and although it may feel strange the first time you do an ergo at 65% (because it doesn't hurt and you're not sweating like a pig), resist the temptation to pull harder and just keep at it, it's on your programme for a reason.

The Energy Efficient or Recovery Zone - 60% to 70%

Much of the benefits from heart rate training involve the body's energy systems and one of these systems is responsible for the long term supply of energy to your working muscles.

Fat is an abundant source of energy for the endurance athlete. Training within this heart rate zone - best accomplished by doing long, slow ergos, (or runs or water-work) - develops the body's ability to feed the working muscles more efficiently.

The other major advantage to training in this zone is weight loss, because you are almost exclusively burning FAT. You will also be allowing your muscles to re-energise with glycogen, which has been expended during those faster paced work-outs.

Underestimate this training zone at your peril.

The Aerobic Zone - 70% to 80%

When you train in this Heart Rate zone, you are training your cardiovascular system. Within this range, the body's ability to transport oxygen to, and carbon dioxide away from, the working muscles can be developed and improved.

As you become fitter and stronger from training in this zone you will get the benefits of some fat burning and improved aerobic capacity. 75% training often feels good.

This zone is also ideal for developing local muscle strength.

The Anaerobic Zone - 80% to 90%

This is the zone in which an enormous amount of benefit can be gained.

Somewhere between 80 and 90%, your individual anaerobic threshold is hiding. Between these heart rates, you use very little fat, instead you start to use glycogen - which is stored in your muscles - as the main source of energy.

Unfortuntely, one of the by-products of burning this glycogen, is the rower's worst enemy, Lactic Acid.

There is a point at which the working muscles are producing lactic acid at a faster rate than the body can remove it. The heart rate this happens at, depends on you as an individual but when you do hit this point - known as Anabolic Threshold it will be accompanied by a rapid rise in heart rate and a slowing of your pace - sound familiar?

Through the correct training it is possible to delay the Anabolic Threshold either:

by increasing the heart rate at which you reach it or

by increasing your body's ability to deal with the lactic acid for a longer period of time.

The fitter you are the nearer you will be racing to your Anabolic Threshold. But beware, pulling a 1:45 split does not mean you are rowing at your Anabolic Threshold if the training you have been under-going is incorrect.

Assuming you are fit you will be racing at just below, or right on, your AT (depending on the length of the race). Sometimes elite athletes can hold a pace above their AT but for most mere mortals "going off too hard" will only result in you "blowing up" half way through a race - something most of us have exerienced at some stage, and it's not pleasant.

The Red Line Zone 90% to 100%

In this zone you will only be able to train for short periods of time. It effectively trains your fast twitch muscle fibres and helps to develop speed.

It is worth being aware that to develop this speed you must first have developed your ability to deal with lactic acid.

This zone is reserved for racing sprints and only the very fit are able to train effectively within the red line zone.

My coach often puts people in a place she calls "heart rate jail" for 2-3 months. That means weeks of work in zone 1-2 and no high heart work. Darrin shold be well enogh trained that zone 1 work won't tax his body. He could also possbily get there with a fast paced walk. The point of 100 runs (or walks) in 100 days wouldn't be to beat up his body, it would be to improve his body's ability to burn fat when he does start training (speed work) in zone 3-4.This might fall in "tough love" category, but Darrin is all over the map with his goals. Probably the case of the pot calling the kettle black as I've been switching directions as the wind changes, but the guys here that have been seeing the best results are sticking to a structured plan. Gru is a prime example. That said, Darrin may have the worst training environment of anyone here based on his location. He'd probably be better off building base and cross training in the summer and dropping the hammer in the winter.

I realized this some time ago. I do have a base of almost a year now of slow shorter runs and slow longer run/walks, and it would be different if I was 50-60 pounds over weight. But I don't think I will have the issues you are concerned with at 15-20 pounds.

Plus remember that I did this before a few years ago. It was only because of my slothy attitude and World of Warcraft that I gained some of my weight back. I kick myself every day that I allowed it to happen.

I have been lying awake thinking about this, and the best way I can put it is this way.

I am not running faster to lose weight. I am losing weight to run faster.

I enjoy running. My best friend thinks that I have a very loose grip on my sanity because I enjoy it. Less weight means I can enjoy it even more.

 

[Darrinll40]

Kept meaning to post this, I found it funny. You have all probably seen it already.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cw5MHsO-JI8&feature=related

 

[Darrinll40]

You really should consider 100 runs in 100 days after the Chase. I racked up both a 5k pr and 1/2 marathon pr doing this with zero speedwork. Regardless, slow volume would be much more productive in getting your weight down. Doing speedwork while overwieght is a formula for injury.

I disagree with this. Not from a running perspective (where I'm far from qualified to offer an opinion), but from a weight loss perspective/fitness perspective. Darrin has to do what he thinks best, and I do think he courts injury if he does too much speed work, but I also think he courts injury by piling up the miles (and I think it's really counter-productive to his weight loss as it's going to overload his body with stress hormones). If he had to choose, I'd say that he'd be better served by doing two intense speed workouts a week and walking the rest of the days than by running every day. All I have is my N+1 experience, but I'm a lot faster today pushing 40 than I was when I was 30. I was doing between 30-40 miles a week back then (and still couldn't get below 225 lbs our so, no matter how much I ran). Now, I might do 15 on a heavy week. But more relevantly, I can remember many, many days where the days after my runs and workouts were pure torture back then. And I never feel like that now.

Right now, age 46, I am doing 16 miles per week. Speed intervals (4 miles)on Tuesday, tempo on Thursday (4 miles total, 3 speed), long run (only 5 now but will be going up to 6 soon), and a real easy 3 on Sunday. I do at least 1/2 hour of weight work on Monday and Wednesday, nothing on Friday. At no time, before, after, or during workouts do I feel like it is torture. I am not wiped out afterward, though I do have delayed sweating which really screws up the idea of showering. I can promise you all that if I ever did feel that way I would cut back. But right now the only feeling I have after any run is one of accomplishment.ETA: Sorry, I didn't mean to make this whole page about me. I will now resume my regularly posted updates.

 

[wilked]

You guys talking about drinking water 30-40 mins into a summer run...what do you use for the water? Those belts? Or those water bottles with the hand strap? What do you recommend for a guy training for a marathon?

Did this one last week http://connect.garmin.com/activity/105114529 no water till the end. I am continuing to increase distance, so need to consider what I need to buy

 

[SteelCurtain]

You guys talking about drinking water 30-40 mins into a summer run...what do you use for the water? Those belts? Or those water bottles with the hand strap? What do you recommend for a guy training for a marathon?

Did this one last week http://connect.garmin.com/activity/105114529 no water till the end. I am continuing to increase distance, so need to consider what I need to buy

I know that area well and dropping water off is not really an option. If I were you, I'd just carry a bottle of water with me while I ran. Do you live near there? For a marathon, I would plan on running by a water stop several times during your long runs.

That being said, you have a good pace. Is 8 min miles your race pace with longer runs? As you increase mileage, be sure you don't go at Marathon Pace all the time or you may ask for an injury.

Good luck!

 

[Reginald Cornsilks]

You guys talking about drinking water 30-40 mins into a summer run...what do you use for the water? Those belts? Or those water bottles with the hand strap? What do you recommend for a guy training for a marathon?

Did this one last week http://connect.garmin.com/activity/105114529 no water till the end. I am continuing to increase distance, so need to consider what I need to buy

Went to a Sox game last week and never saw so many runners in my life on that course you mapped. It was absolutely ridiculous how many runners were out there.I'm a noob, so I can't be of much help with the water. Right now, when I do carry water, I just carry a sports water bottle and it's not too much of a pain. Looks like you're also using a Garmin so I'm assuming your holding nothing else. Just a 20 ounce water bottle in one hand shouldn't be too much of a bother.

 

[wilked]

You guys talking about drinking water 30-40 mins into a summer run...what do you use for the water? Those belts? Or those water bottles with the hand strap? What do you recommend for a guy training for a marathon?

Did this one last week http://connect.garmin.com/activity/105114529 no water till the end. I am continuing to increase distance, so need to consider what I need to buy

I know that area well and dropping water off is not really an option. If I were you, I'd just carry a bottle of water with me while I ran. Do you live near there? For a marathon, I would plan on running by a water stop several times during your long runs.

That being said, you have a good pace. Is 8 min miles your race pace with longer runs? As you increase mileage, be sure you don't go at Marathon Pace all the time or you may ask for an injury.

Good luck!

I live where the run startsI am targeting a <3:30 run so 8 min is my marathon pace. But I could run faster than that for 10 miles...I am making sure I take it easy.

So you favor those water bottle things over the belt thing? Is the belt thing kind of 'toolish'? Help me out here...

 

[BassNBrew]

5.25 mi recovery run. 9:59 pace all in zone 1.

Based on hr rate training, my marathon pace, long run pace, and recovery run pace are all 10:00 min. Weather is probably the biggest factor here.

 

[gruecd]

Fair enough, but we should all be able to agree that proposis isn't drinking enough. When you're resorting to psychological tricks like running with water in your mouth so you don't feel so thirsty, you need to drink way more.

Agreed.Now let's figure out a way to comfortably carry 20 lbs of water with us on a run.

That's my point. You don't need to carry your entire water supply. You can either plan a route that runs past places where you can stop and refill your bottle(s), or else run loops and stop back at your car/house every so often to refill. Piece of cake.

I believe in the benefits from Zone 1/2 training. I would say the key is to recognize if you're running slow, you're doing it for a specific reason. I think two common mistakes for runners is (1) not patiently putting in the long, slow miles and/or (2) not breaking out of that pattern at some point to move to a higher plateau of fitness and performance.

Well stated. I agree.

 

[gruecd]

Started off the week with a 4/6 recovery double yesterday, and followed it up with a 10-mile GA run at 7:55 average pace tonight. Tomorrow is my first VO2max workout of this cycle. I've got 11 miles with 5 x 1200M at 5K pace. I'll target 6:00 pace, so I'll be shooting for 4:30/repeat, and I'll jog an easy lap (~2:15) in between reps.

Finally confirmed that I'm runner #5 for Ragnar this weekend, so I've got legs 5, 17, and 29. That hill in leg #17 (in the middle of the night) is gonna suck, and that last 7-miler won't be a cakewalk, either. Oh, well.

--------------------------

Ned - Good job on the LT run. Nice consistency.

tri-man - Good, strong finish.

BNB - Nice job on the 14.

Ivan - I love the "easy" 10.

Duff Man - The guy at your local running store is an idiot.

Darrin - Nice job on the intervals.

wilked - I own a Fuel Belt, but I hate it. I almost always just use my 20-ounce Amphipod Hydraform Handheld and plan my route so I can stop and refill as necessary.

 

[tri-man 47]

So you favor those water bottle things over the belt thing? Is the belt thing kind of 'toolish'? Help me out here...

I use a fuel belt for long runs, though I prefer to go without it. It's not "toolish" ...it says you're a distance runner. It's an adjustment, but it can serve a good purpose.

 

[CDog]

You guys talking about drinking water 30-40 mins into a summer run...what do you use for the water? Those belts? Or those water bottles with the hand strap? What do you recommend for a guy training for a marathon?

Did this one last week http://connect.garmin.com/activity/105114529 no water till the end. I am continuing to increase distance, so need to consider what I need to buy

I have both a belt and some handhelds. I never run with them at the same time though. I think they both work well, I prefer the belt though.

 

[BassNBrew]

wilked - I own a Fuel Belt, but I hate it. I almost always just use my 20-ounce Amphipod Hydraform Handheld and plan my route so I can stop and refill as necessary.

The handhelds looks like a pain, but I always notice that the faster the runner is, the more likely they're using the handheld.

Wilked - I have a belt and have a problem with it digging into my skin unless my shorts are pulled up high. I have many fewer problems with the camelback during longer runs, but definately notice the weight and water slogging around. I also think it impacts your body's ability to cool.

 

[sho nuff]

I use a fuel belt...but the amphipod belts look sweet and someone here has one of those.

I generally have it with me in the summer for any run around 3 miles or more. I err on the side of cautious when it comes to water in the southern heat.

And if someone thinks its toolish to carry water on a longer run and keep yourself hydrated...well, they are likely the tool.

 

[walnutz]

Took the family on one last vacation before school starts this week end. So, I effectively did not running. Unless you count chasing a 6 and 4 year old around a water park training.

Went out this morning and decided I was going to break through the 3 mile barrier that I had been hitting. I did 4.14 in 43:20. I felt good through the whole run. Was not struggling and my breathing was very even. I think I could have done another mile but needed to get back and get to work. I have my 5K race coming up this week end but will probably stay in the 4 to 4.5 mile range for a week and then hop up to 5 the week after next.

Mile 1 - 9:06

Mile 2 - 9:07

Mile 3 - 9:16

Mile 4 - 9:20

My average HR was 170 and max was 183.

 

[gruecd]

And if someone thinks its toolish to carry water on a longer run and keep yourself hydrated...well, they are likely the tool.

Fuel Belts do look kinda toolish, but not "socks and sandals" toolish or anything. And it wouldn't stop me from wearing one if I needed it.

 

[pigskinliquors]

Walnutz: Awesome that you are upping the distance. Your HR seems darn high though. What's your max HR?

Wilked: I've used hand helds, fuel belts, and a Camelback. Of those I greatly prefer using a Camelback. My preference though is to put water bottles out, usually at the end of my driveway, and then run loops back to them. I pick the bottles up, while running through the "water stop" then throw them in one of my neighbor's yards. While it sucks a bit to run short circles (not as bad as tripping on a hose, on a track ), it emulates water stops in races, and allows my daughters to cheer for me with each pass. The neighbor that I usually throw the bottles in also has a kegerator. Thus, when I'm done, I can fill one of the water bottles up with some carbs. Winning.

Darrin: Always love to see your updates. As frustrating as it is to come in here w/o being able to post workouts, I always look forward to seeing you plugging away. Keep at it!

Grue: You are truly a machine right now. I'm jealous that when I was younger and in much better shape that I was never as dedicated as you are. You are maximizing your abilities by fully dedicating yourself to the sport.

I got the MRI on my knee on Monday, and Christine was there to give it to me again While we were walking toward the MRI thingy, she said, "We're getting to see a lot of you around here." Since last time I saw her, she saw my old man balls while I got two shots in the groin, I had to agree with her.

My next shot in the groin, and MRI is tomorrow, followed by my consult with the Orthoped looking at all three MRI's and all X-Rays on Friday. :fingerscrossed:

 

[gruecd]

I got the MRI on my knee on Monday, and Christine was there to give it to me again While we were walking toward the MRI thingy, she said, "We're getting to see a lot of you around here." Since last time I saw her, she saw my old man balls while I got two shots in the groin, I had to agree with her.

My next shot in the groin, and MRI is tomorrow, followed by my consult with the Orthoped looking at all three MRI's and all X-Rays on Friday. :fingerscrossed:

Good luck on Friday!

 

[walnutz]

Walnutz: Awesome that you are upping the distance. Your HR seems darn high though. What's your max HR?

When I last measured my max HR is 195. This was about a week ago for my referee fitness test. The last leg of the test is an 7x40 yard sprint with a 10 second rest after the 3rd 40. The highest I saw was 195 on my HR monitor. I am thinking I am running in a zone that is too high right now. I have consciously slowed my pace down. I would have to walk to get any slower. Someone mentioned that it takes time to get the HR down into a lower zone on these. I am open to suggestions on this though. I see lots of guys in here running with their HR in the 130's to 140's. I started off for the first mile of that run in the 160's. Mile 2 I went up into the 170's and stayed there for the remainder of the run. I am positively shuked.

 

[pigskinliquors]

Walnutz: Awesome that you are upping the distance. Your HR seems darn high though. What's your max HR?

When I last measured my max HR is 195. This was about a week ago for my referee fitness test. The last leg of the test is an 7x40 yard sprint with a 10 second rest after the 3rd 40. The highest I saw was 195 on my HR monitor. I am thinking I am running in a zone that is too high right now. I have consciously slowed my pace down. I would have to walk to get any slower. Someone mentioned that it takes time to get the HR down into a lower zone on these. I am open to suggestions on this though. I see lots of guys in here running with their HR in the 130's to 140's. I started off for the first mile of that run in the 160's. Mile 2 I went up into the 170's and stayed there for the remainder of the run. I am positively shuked.

Running in low 9:00's = you can run much slower if you need to. Starting in the 160's is likely due to heat/humidity. Having a 170 average, on a run that is long for you, is not all that bad. Also getting up to 183 with a max of at least 195 is not bad. When you see guys running in the 130's/140's, it's only relevant to you, IF their max is near yours. My max is 198 (high compared to most), and I can't walk around the block in this heat without getting up to 140. Follow Ned for HR advice. Determine the zone you want for each run prior to starting, and stick to it the best that you can. Once things cool down, you'll be amazed at how much faster you'll have to (and be able to!) run in order to achieve similar HR's.

 

[gruecd]

Walnutz: Awesome that you are upping the distance. Your HR seems darn high though. What's your max HR?

When I last measured my max HR is 195. This was about a week ago for my referee fitness test. The last leg of the test is an 7x40 yard sprint with a 10 second rest after the 3rd 40. The highest I saw was 195 on my HR monitor. I am thinking I am running in a zone that is too high right now. I have consciously slowed my pace down. I would have to walk to get any slower. Someone mentioned that it takes time to get the HR down into a lower zone on these. I am open to suggestions on this though. I see lots of guys in here running with their HR in the 130's to 140's. I started off for the first mile of that run in the 160's. Mile 2 I went up into the 170's and stayed there for the remainder of the run. I am positively shuked.

Running in low 9:00's = you can run much slower if you need to. Starting in the 160's is likely due to heat/humidity. Having a 170 average, on a run that is long for you, is not all that bad. Also getting up to 183 with a max of at least 195 is not bad. When you see guys running in the 130's/140's, it's only relevant to you, IF their max is near yours. My max is 198 (high compared to most), and I can't walk around the block in this heat without getting up to 140. Follow Ned for HR advice. Determine the zone you want for each run prior to starting, and stick to it the best that you can. Once things cool down, you'll be amazed at how much faster you'll have to (and be able to!) run in order to achieve similar HR's.

Hadd's Approach to Distance Training

 

[Sand]

##### of a run done today. 90 degrees (luckily not as humid it has been). 5 miles, 8:30 average. 6lbs lost. Where was my damn water Sherpa?

Probably would have been a bit easier today, but legs were still toast from a hard, hard group ride last night. Someone hit the "haul ###" button and we were off. I was actually pretty stoked about the ride - I had the same power output on the big climb as the guy who had the best bike split from the tri last weekend. Of course he weighs 25lbs less than me and smoked me up the hill, but was still pretty happy that I'm in the ballpark (and I was third up the hill behind the two waifs of the group). Just need to lose an arm or a leg and I'll trim down to where he is.

 

[sho nuff]

Water sherpa...when on a loop in my neighborhood or close by...I need a button on my garmin...push it and it alerts my house that I need more water and sends my moving location. My son can then track me on a panel on his bike and bring me water.

I need to work on this.

 

[BassNBrew]

Hadd's Approach to Distance Training

Thanks Gru...great read. I'm a prime example of the uneven pacing he speaks of. This explains why 100 in 100 worked last winter and the 3-4 months of hr jail during marathon training worked pretty good for me. I was shocked to set my 5k pr during towards the end of 100 in 100 when I hadn't done any speed work. Definately confirms that I need to stay in the zone 1 (127-137) range for the bulk of my work. Cooler weathr would be a huge help in pursuing this further.Those 10 mile bench marks are something I need to adapt into a plan.