Ran a 10k in June (6 Viewers)

[gruecd]

I'm sure my recovery was lengthened a bit by the Bourbon Chase, but here we are 23 days after my marathon, and I finally have a little bounce back in my step. 8 miles yesterday after work at 7:17 average pace. SRD today, then 10 tomorrow, hopefully some speed on Thursday, recovery Friday, and 15 on Saturday. Weekly mileage back up into the 50s. More like it.

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pmb - Loved the race report. Especially the bouncing eyefuls.

liquors - Great work on the bike. Keep it up, Lance.

 

[IvanKaramazov]

Nice race, pmb.

gru -- Your recovery time is almost as insane as your racing speed. If I did a marathon PR and then turned around a few days later and raced a bunch of miles for the Bourbon Chase, I wouldn't be able to run with any seriousness for 6 weeks. Getting back to real training after only 3 weeks and change is great.

__________________________

Not much to report today -- just 5 decent-quality miles at HMP, give or take.

 

[Sand]

pmb - as a compromise, you could get compression socks and wear them after your runs (around the house). That could help with the recovery.

And I'm still waiting for the Greek Sand Godtm to politely point out that his run times are in the middle of all his cross-training as opposed to those of us who are currently focused only on our running.

Very true. I will definitely think about it if I continue to have problems.

No need, GB. I haven't ridden much in the last couple weeks and my swimming practices look more like spastic octopus hour.And since you just talked about compression socks, don't forget I just posted about a deal going now. $25 for a decent pair of these seems to be a pretty good thing. Now I doubt any of us will make them look as cool as 2Y does, but hopefully they'll help with recovery.

 

[Darrinll40]

4 miles in 38:23 this evening. Faster than I had planned, but it felt great and I did slow down a bit in the last mile.

All day long while at work my legs and knees were bothering me just a little bit and I almost called the run off. I am glad I didn't, about 10 steps into the run everything stopped hurting.

Tomorrow I am heading to another hill, this is one that is part of a 5k I did a few years ago, and I remember it as being a decent slope.

 

[tri-man 47]

4 miles in 38:23 this evening. Faster than I had planned, but it felt great and I did slow down a bit in the last mile. All day long while at work my legs and knees were bothering me just a little bit and I almost called the run off. I am glad I didn't, about 10 steps into the run everything stopped hurting. Tomorrow I am heading to another hill, this is one that is part of a 5k I did a few years ago, and I remember it as being a decent slope.

Darrin, how close are you to the beach? Sand running would be excellent training, especially if you can run (even barefoot) in some soft sand. That'll kick your butt in a hurry!

 

[prosopis]

I got a little over 6 miles in today. I am getting pretty bad rt heel pain. I first mention it Oct 5th in my notes. It is when I walk/run but not when resting/sitting. Any one ever get something like that? I sort of feel I need new shoes but I dont see that happening anytime soon. I find that I am changing the way I run to avoid heel rt strike now.

 

[BassNBrew]

12 miles in the middle of zone 3 last night, 8:59 pace, 152 hr

For reference

10-5: 9 mi @ 8:59, 144 hr (reverse 3 days prior; 40 mi bike 1.1 hr run, 3 hr run)

10-12: 10 mi @ 9:07, 146 hr (off, 2 hr run, 1 hr run)

10-15: 10 mi @ 8:37, 150 hr (off, off)

10-22: 10 mi @ 8:59, 144 hr (off, off, off)

10-24: 12 mi @ 8:59, 152 hr (1.5 hr run, off, 3.5 hr run)

Over trained or under trained or just getting old and back sliding??? Last nite's effort should have been delivering close to an 8:30 pace.

 

[Ned]

12 miles in the middle of zone 3 last night, 8:59 pace, 152 hrFor reference10-5: 9 mi @ 8:59, 144 hr (reverse 3 days prior; 40 mi bike 1.1 hr run, 3 hr run)10-12: 10 mi @ 9:07, 146 hr (off, 2 hr run, 1 hr run)10-15: 10 mi @ 8:37, 150 hr (off, off)10-22: 10 mi @ 8:59, 144 hr (off, off, off)10-24: 12 mi @ 8:59, 152 hr (1.5 hr run, off, 3.5 hr run)Over trained or under trained or just getting old and back sliding??? Last nite's effort should have been delivering close to an 8:30 pace.

Honestly, I think you might be looking too closely. If you split the runs up based on preceding rest and workouts, your runs after 2-3 1 hr+ runs are right in range with last night. You also can't discount the extra 18mins (last night) accounting for a bit higher HR average. 10-5 seems to be the only outlier, which may have just been one of those good days or perfect weather?The one 8:30 paced run was after 2 days off. Comparing that to yesterday when you ran 4hrs before that isn't being fair to yourself.Without a lot of rest:10-5: 9 mi @ 8:59, 144 hr (reverse 3 days prior; 40 mi bike 1.1 hr run, 3 hr run)10-12: 10 mi @ 9:07, 146 hr (off, 2 hr run, 1 hr run)10-24: 12 mi @ 8:59, 152 hr (1.5 hr run, off, 3.5 hr run)With rest:10-15: 10 mi @ 8:37, 150 hr (off, off)10-22: 10 mi @ 8:59, 144 hr (off, off, off)

 

[sho nuff]

Well, likely to miss a run tonight.

Bit of a stomach bug going through me...thought I was fine last night after leaving work early...made a bad choice for dinner and today have the chili craps. Don't think running tonight would be a good idea with that goin on.

So today, Im going to knock this unscheduled rest out of the park and catch up on the DVR.

 

[BassNBrew]

12 miles in the middle of zone 3 last night, 8:59 pace, 152 hr

For reference

10-5: 9 mi @ 8:59, 144 hr (reverse 3 days prior; 40 mi bike 1.1 hr run, 3 hr run)

10-12: 10 mi @ 9:07, 146 hr (off, 2 hr run, 1 hr run)

10-15: 10 mi @ 8:37, 150 hr (off, off)

10-22: 10 mi @ 8:59, 144 hr (off, off, off)

10-24: 12 mi @ 8:59, 152 hr (1.5 hr run, off, 3.5 hr run)

Over trained or under trained or just getting old and back sliding??? Last nite's effort should have been delivering close to an 8:30 pace.

Honestly, I think you might be looking too closely. If you split the runs up based on preceding rest and workouts, your runs after 2-3 1 hr+ runs are right in range with last night. You also can't discount the extra 18mins (last night) accounting for a bit higher HR average. 10-5 seems to be the only outlier, which may have just been one of those good days or perfect weather?The one 8:30 paced run was after 2 days off. Comparing that to yesterday when you ran 4hrs before that isn't being fair to yourself.

Without a lot of rest:

10-5: 9 mi @ 8:59, 144 hr (reverse 3 days prior; 40 mi bike 1.1 hr run, 3 hr run)

10-12: 10 mi @ 9:07, 146 hr (off, 2 hr run, 1 hr run)

10-24: 12 mi @ 8:59, 152 hr (1.5 hr run, off, 3.5 hr run)

With rest:

10-15: 10 mi @ 8:37, 150 hr (off, off)

10-22: 10 mi @ 8:59, 144 hr (off, off, off)

That's why I have watt meters, cadence sensors, hr monitors, software to analze, barometric pressure equipment for elevations, gps, etc. This #### wouldn't be half as much fun if we couldn't over analysis everything.

 

[Ned]

12 miles in the middle of zone 3 last night, 8:59 pace, 152 hr

For reference

10-5: 9 mi @ 8:59, 144 hr (reverse 3 days prior; 40 mi bike 1.1 hr run, 3 hr run)

10-12: 10 mi @ 9:07, 146 hr (off, 2 hr run, 1 hr run)

10-15: 10 mi @ 8:37, 150 hr (off, off)

10-22: 10 mi @ 8:59, 144 hr (off, off, off)

10-24: 12 mi @ 8:59, 152 hr (1.5 hr run, off, 3.5 hr run)

Over trained or under trained or just getting old and back sliding??? Last nite's effort should have been delivering close to an 8:30 pace.

Honestly, I think you might be looking too closely. If you split the runs up based on preceding rest and workouts, your runs after 2-3 1 hr+ runs are right in range with last night. You also can't discount the extra 18mins (last night) accounting for a bit higher HR average. 10-5 seems to be the only outlier, which may have just been one of those good days or perfect weather?The one 8:30 paced run was after 2 days off. Comparing that to yesterday when you ran 4hrs before that isn't being fair to yourself.

Without a lot of rest:

10-5: 9 mi @ 8:59, 144 hr (reverse 3 days prior; 40 mi bike 1.1 hr run, 3 hr run)

10-12: 10 mi @ 9:07, 146 hr (off, 2 hr run, 1 hr run)

10-24: 12 mi @ 8:59, 152 hr (1.5 hr run, off, 3.5 hr run)

With rest:

10-15: 10 mi @ 8:37, 150 hr (off, off)

10-22: 10 mi @ 8:59, 144 hr (off, off, off)

That's why I have watt meters, cadence sensors, hr monitors, software to analze, barometric pressure equipment for elevations, gps, etc. This #### wouldn't be half as much fun if we couldn't over analysis everything.

you sound just like me. I'd be embarrased to show anyone the excel workbook I have going on all my runs that I've logged in the past 18 months. It's a full blown running diary with all sorts of data analysis.

 

[2Young2BBald]

12 miles in the middle of zone 3 last night, 8:59 pace, 152 hr

For reference

10-5: 9 mi @ 8:59, 144 hr (reverse 3 days prior; 40 mi bike 1.1 hr run, 3 hr run)

10-12: 10 mi @ 9:07, 146 hr (off, 2 hr run, 1 hr run)

10-15: 10 mi @ 8:37, 150 hr (off, off)

10-22: 10 mi @ 8:59, 144 hr (off, off, off)

10-24: 12 mi @ 8:59, 152 hr (1.5 hr run, off, 3.5 hr run)

Over trained or under trained or just getting old and back sliding??? Last nite's effort should have been delivering close to an 8:30 pace.

Honestly, I think you might be looking too closely. If you split the runs up based on preceding rest and workouts, your runs after 2-3 1 hr+ runs are right in range with last night. You also can't discount the extra 18mins (last night) accounting for a bit higher HR average. 10-5 seems to be the only outlier, which may have just been one of those good days or perfect weather?The one 8:30 paced run was after 2 days off. Comparing that to yesterday when you ran 4hrs before that isn't being fair to yourself.

Without a lot of rest:

10-5: 9 mi @ 8:59, 144 hr (reverse 3 days prior; 40 mi bike 1.1 hr run, 3 hr run)

10-12: 10 mi @ 9:07, 146 hr (off, 2 hr run, 1 hr run)

10-24: 12 mi @ 8:59, 152 hr (1.5 hr run, off, 3.5 hr run)

With rest:

10-15: 10 mi @ 8:37, 150 hr (off, off)

10-22: 10 mi @ 8:59, 144 hr (off, off, off)

That's why I have watt meters, cadence sensors, hr monitors, software to analze, barometric pressure equipment for elevations, gps, etc. This #### wouldn't be half as much fun if we couldn't over analysis everything.

you sound just like me. I'd be embarrased to show anyone the excel workbook I have going on all my runs that I've logged in the past 18 months. It's a full blown running diary with all sorts of data analysis.

I'll see your and raise you a tracking spreadsheet with swim/bike/run/other, color coding by event type, % analysis of each discipline (S/B/R) based on comparison to each other, comparison to total days in the year and % analysis to 2009 & 2010. And, I embed a hyperlink to the data on Garmin Connect to most activities as reference. It has reached a level of certifiable insanity

 

[Ned]

That's why I have watt meters, cadence sensors, hr monitors, software to analze, barometric pressure equipment for elevations, gps, etc. This #### wouldn't be half as much fun if we couldn't over analysis everything.

you sound just like me. I'd be embarrased to show anyone the excel workbook I have going on all my runs that I've logged in the past 18 months. It's a full blown running diary with all sorts of data analysis.

I'll see your and raise you a tracking spreadsheet with swim/bike/run/other, color coding by event type, % analysis of each discipline (S/B/R) based on comparison to each other, comparison to total days in the year and % analysis to 2009 & 2010. And, I embed a hyperlink to the data on Garmin Connect to most activities as reference. It has reached a level of certifiable insanity

 

[The Duff Man]

It looks like race pics will take a few more days so I will post my report now.

A perfect day for a race. It was cool in the morning, but warmed up a lot. A bunch of woman around me stripped their shirts off on the run....talk about putting a spring in your step.

For the entire two hours I was kicking myself for not being a runner while I was single....and have since told all of my single friends that they are dumb if they don't start running TODAY.

I got to the starting line 25 min before the race, but having a one hour drive to get there I was in need of my second movement of the morning. There were about 20 bathrooms....with a lineup I estimated at 200 people. Doing the quick math, I wasn't sure I would make it, but didn't have much choice. I stretched while in line :(

With about two minutes to go, I hear them announce that it was three minutes until the start. Phew, my watch is fast. But I am still 15 people from the front. I get in the bathroom as they announce one minute. Squeezing like a mother... I took the fastest dump I could and got in line near the 2 hour group as the 10 second countdown started.

I hung with that group for 1.5 miles but couldn't keep up. The start seemed very tough, probably due to limited warm up. I hit the 21 mile marker at 75 min, which was 7.9 miles for me (starting at 13.1 miles for the half). So about 9:30 pace. Miles 4-8 seemed to fly by.

The remaining 5.2 miles took me 53 min, just a hair over 10 min pace. So I was a little slower to end, but not much. For my first half, I felt like I ran my best. At no point did I feel like I couldn't do it, or want to give up. A couple of times when I thought my pace was slowing I was able to recover. I took water while running at 3 and 6 miles, and drank while having a short walking rest at 8, 10 and 12.

I passed an overweight guy getting frantic medical attention with about 5k to go. He must have been well ahead of me, they already had him to the side of the road with paramedics on scene. He looked kinda grey, a bad scene since a 27 year old died at the Toronto event the week before.

I heard my wife and kids yell out to me at the finish line and got to give them a wave and meet up with them after I got clear of the finish line. A woman was getting taken away on a stretcher there too.

A little sore Monday, but nearly totally back to normal today. I had a massage yesterday.....holy hell it felt like heaven.

I haven't seen any races in Dec or Jan, which is a bummer since I don't want to wait until spring for the next one!

 

[Ned]

Whoa momma. Today's VO2 max workout (10mi with 4x1200M @ 5K pace) kicked my ###. For as hard as that was, my calf came out A-OK. It's tight, but feeling better with every day. What's really odd is when I was doing the 1200M repeats, it felt 100%. Only when I slowed down for the recovery jogs did I feel it.

I did 3 up, then the repeats, and 3 down. The first one felt hard, the second one felt easy, then 3 & 4 were torture. :X

1 - 4:58 @ 178 HR (6:38 pace)

2 - 5:03 @ 178 (6:45)

3 - 5:06 @ 179 (6:50)

4 - 5:06 @ 179 (6:50)

What is shocking to me is those HR numbers. HTF did I manage that HM at the same or higher?

 

[BassNBrew]

Whoa momma. Today's VO2 max workout (10mi with 4x1200M @ 5K pace) kicked my ###. For as hard as that was, my calf came out A-OK. It's tight, but feeling better with every day. What's really odd is when I was doing the 1200M repeats, it felt 100%. Only when I slowed down for the recovery jogs did I feel it. I did 3 up, then the repeats, and 3 down. The first one felt hard, the second one felt easy, then 3 & 4 were torture. :X1 - 4:58 @ 178 HR (6:38 pace)2 - 5:03 @ 178 (6:45)3 - 5:06 @ 179 (6:50)4 - 5:06 @ 179 (6:50)What is shocking to me is those HR numbers. HTF did I manage that HM at the same or higher?

Caffine?Great workout. Can't beat consistant pace and hr.

 

[BassNBrew]

6.1 tonite @ 10:42 pace, 127 hr.

3 wks ago I did a similiar 6.2 mi @ 10:45, 126 hr which had more elevation change.

Awaiting that break thru that I thought I was on the verge of.

 

[sho nuff]

Slow in here today.

Looking like cold rain all day...finally over the stomach bug...well, over it enough. Will likely go out for 4-5 tonight before hitting 12 again on Saturday.

After the 8 I did last Saturday and started munching on a chocolate chip cookie (parents were in from Wisconsin and my son was on fall break the week before so they had made cookies with him)...my son came down and asked what I was doing (since I was having a cookie at 9am)...just told him I was replacing my glycogen stores. He looked at me and then told me I was weird.

 

[The_Man]

How do you know when it's time to switch the model shoe you've been wearing, and how do you pick a new one? I've been running for a couple of years+ now and am still wearing the Asics GT 2150 that I started with. The running store got me into them when I said I needed some support and padding, particularly as I was about to begin ramping up my mileage for the first time. Plus they sold me on some Super Feet inserts.

The good news is that other than for a couple of weeks, I've basically been uninjured during that entire time. So the shoes were a good choice. The bad news is that I feel like I'm wearing giant weighted pillows on my feet, especially at the end of my long runs. Am I crazy to think about switching to something else, so I've been unhurt? Or am I still going around with training wheels on that are offering unneeded protection while slowing me down?

My marathon is four weeks from Saturday. I'm really thinking about getting a new pair of shoes tonight to break in and be ready to race in next month. Thoughts in general? Also specifically, the guy at the hard core running store suggested Brooks Racer ST5. They offer a little more support than a pure racing flat, but are still lightweight. Any insight?

Thanks!

 

[Ned]

How do you know when it's time to switch the model shoe you've been wearing, and how do you pick a new one? I've been running for a couple of years+ now and am still wearing the Asics GT 2150 that I started with. The running store got me into them when I said I needed some support and padding, particularly as I was about to begin ramping up my mileage for the first time. Plus they sold me on some Super Feet inserts.The good news is that other than for a couple of weeks, I've basically been uninjured during that entire time. So the shoes were a good choice. The bad news is that I feel like I'm wearing giant weighted pillows on my feet, especially at the end of my long runs. Am I crazy to think about switching to something else, so I've been unhurt? Or am I still going around with training wheels on that are offering unneeded protection while slowing me down?My marathon is four weeks from Saturday. I'm really thinking about getting a new pair of shoes tonight to break in and be ready to race in next month. Thoughts in general? Also specifically, the guy at the hard core running store suggested Brooks Racer ST5. They offer a little more support than a pure racing flat, but are still lightweight. Any insight?Thanks!

I've been burning thru shoes like they're candy. I recently switched from the Asics Gel Cumulus 12 to the Cumulus 13s. Like you, I was , but bit the bullet and tried them. I think its just a matter of making sure the style of shoe is still right for you and then trying them out.Unless you're a small guy, I'd be leary of running a marathon on anything flat-like. I love my flats for 5Ks, but at 190 I'd probably be running barefoot at mile 18.

 

[pmbrown_22]

How do you know when it's time to switch the model shoe you've been wearing, and how do you pick a new one? I've been running for a couple of years+ now and am still wearing the Asics GT 2150 that I started with. The running store got me into them when I said I needed some support and padding, particularly as I was about to begin ramping up my mileage for the first time. Plus they sold me on some Super Feet inserts.The good news is that other than for a couple of weeks, I've basically been uninjured during that entire time. So the shoes were a good choice. The bad news is that I feel like I'm wearing giant weighted pillows on my feet, especially at the end of my long runs. Am I crazy to think about switching to something else, so I've been unhurt? Or am I still going around with training wheels on that are offering unneeded protection while slowing me down?My marathon is four weeks from Saturday. I'm really thinking about getting a new pair of shoes tonight to break in and be ready to race in next month. Thoughts in general? Also specifically, the guy at the hard core running store suggested Brooks Racer ST5. They offer a little more support than a pure racing flat, but are still lightweight. Any insight?Thanks!

I am usually on the more conservative side while in training so it sounds odd to me that 4 weeks out to want to switch shoes. I think I would wait until after the marathon to switch them out. Since you have 4 weeks left, what type of mileage do you have left to run? Do you have another long run left to test them out? What is the back up plan if the new shoes don't work?Just my initial thoughts and .02.I would hate for you to go through all of that training and then have sore feet or calves because you switched shoes and they did not work out so well.

 

[tri-man 47]

How do you know when it's time to switch the model shoe you've been wearing, and how do you pick a new one? I've been running for a couple of years+ now and am still wearing the Asics GT 2150 that I started with. The running store got me into them when I said I needed some support and padding, particularly as I was about to begin ramping up my mileage for the first time. Plus they sold me on some Super Feet inserts.The good news is that other than for a couple of weeks, I've basically been uninjured during that entire time. So the shoes were a good choice. The bad news is that I feel like I'm wearing giant weighted pillows on my feet, especially at the end of my long runs. Am I crazy to think about switching to something else, so I've been unhurt? Or am I still going around with training wheels on that are offering unneeded protection while slowing me down?My marathon is four weeks from Saturday. I'm really thinking about getting a new pair of shoes tonight to break in and be ready to race in next month. Thoughts in general? Also specifically, the guy at the hard core running store suggested Brooks Racer ST5. They offer a little more support than a pure racing flat, but are still lightweight. Any insight?Thanks!

I use the Asics 21xx series. (I find them to be less restrictive than the more expenxive Cumulus.) Maybe switch quickly to a new pair and get them broken in for four weeks (so you'll still a few longer runs in them). But I definitely would NOT switch brands.

 

[The_Man]

I've got a 17-mile run this weekend and a 20-miler next weekend before starting a three-week taper, so there's no problem with getting new shoes broken in.

I'm just tired of clumping around in these shoes that are way more weighed down with padding and support than I need. I know you're right about not switching now, but I definitely need to get a new pair of shoes before the Marathon (regardless of what kind I get), and so I want to get them this week to break them in before raceday.

I feel like I buy another pair of the Asics 2150 or 2160 now, I'll be stuck with them for a few more months after the marathon - because my shoe budget only allows for me to get one new pair every 400 miles or so.

 

[sho nuff]

How do you know when it's time to switch the model shoe you've been wearing, and how do you pick a new one? I've been running for a couple of years+ now and am still wearing the Asics GT 2150 that I started with. The running store got me into them when I said I needed some support and padding, particularly as I was about to begin ramping up my mileage for the first time. Plus they sold me on some Super Feet inserts.The good news is that other than for a couple of weeks, I've basically been uninjured during that entire time. So the shoes were a good choice. The bad news is that I feel like I'm wearing giant weighted pillows on my feet, especially at the end of my long runs. Am I crazy to think about switching to something else, so I've been unhurt? Or am I still going around with training wheels on that are offering unneeded protection while slowing me down?My marathon is four weeks from Saturday. I'm really thinking about getting a new pair of shoes tonight to break in and be ready to race in next month. Thoughts in general? Also specifically, the guy at the hard core running store suggested Brooks Racer ST5. They offer a little more support than a pure racing flat, but are still lightweight. Any insight?Thanks!

I use the Asics 21xx series. (I find them to be less restrictive than the more expenxive Cumulus.) Maybe switch quickly to a new pair and get them broken in for four weeks (so you'll still a few longer runs in them). But I definitely would NOT switch brands.

Would agree here.4 weeks out you have a little time if you want to do it quickly to try.I would think maybe the DS Trainers if you wanted to drop about an ounce or so from the 2150s and still have some stability in the shoe.I went from my Mizuno Inspires to the Elixirs a few weeks before my half and had a longish (9 miler) in them and felt confident enough that I would wear them for the half.Worked out well and I love those shoes as far as the lightweight. I would not ever wear them for anything more than a half though with those.I think the Trainers would be fine for a marathon though...unless you are a heavier plodding type.seems in the reviews I have read on there, plenty of people switch between the 2150s and DS Trainers for speed work and races.But yes, it can be nerve racking to switch close to a race.

 

[pigskinliquors]

Hi All!

PMB: Great Half!! I'll second your need for calf sleeves. Wear them for no other reason than how cool they make you look.

2Young: Good luck with bilateral breathing. I've worked on it a few times with little success. I find myself out of breath while doing it.

BnB: You are over trained...but that's just how your roll. Looking for a speed breakthrough while piling up mileage isn't likely. I do love the over-analysis though. It's the anti-Tri-Man method.

Ned: Have you tried Rolaids yet? I'm a believer in their power. Regarding not cramping until you slow down, that is typically when cramps occur = when your cadence changes.

Grue: you should plan another big race next week. As much as you detest recovery and tapering, you might as well do them both at the same time. I'm just saying

__________________________________

My updated:

Waaaaaay hungover and tired this morning as a newly divorced friend had a birthday party last night, and it was literally a gathering of the "divorced-with-kids-and-really-desperate-club." My favorite peeps! Thought I'd have a fairly easy 20 miler, but the wind was down, and I decided after 5 miles to go further and faster than anticipated (the pounding in my head was greatly against that idea though). I ended up getting 23.6 miles in at 21.2 MPH, with all miles at least 20.0 MPH. I didn't have my HR strap on, but I'm guessing I hit 180 at least 3x (all miles into the wind and/or uphill) trying to keep each mile under 3:00. I'm heading home for a nap as I'm hoping for round two tonight with my newly found friend, while watching the World Series.

 

[The_Man]

Waaaaaay hungover and tired this morning as a newly divorced friend had a birthday party last night, and it was literally a gathering of the "divorced-with-kids-and-really-desperate-club." My favorite peeps! ... I'm heading home for a nap as I'm hoping for round two tonight with my newly found friend, while watching the World Series.

You know, you really make the whole recently divorced thing seem like an unusual amount of fun

 

[Sand]

My marathon is four weeks from Saturday. I'm really thinking about getting a new pair of shoes tonight to break in and be ready to race in next month. Thoughts in general? Also specifically, the guy at the hard core running store suggested Brooks Racer ST5. They offer a little more support than a pure racing flat, but are still lightweight. Any insight?

Go try one of the shoes in the new Brooks Pure series. I love my Connects. Light (i.e. a lot lighter than my Adrenalines) with some support. Racer ST5 is even a bit lighter weight than the Pures and I'd be hesitant to use something that light for a marathon.

 

[Sand]

I've been burning thru shoes like they're candy.

I was on track to burn through the sole of my Adrenalines in less than 100 miles in one spot. That's what I get for having a surgically enhanced knee, I guess. So now I have been putting on a layer of shoe goo every week and using that as a wear surface. Working great - I can't tell the difference and my shoes will definitely last a lot longer now.

 

[Sand]

Hey Sand, any tips beyond this type of stuff to learn how to bilateral breathe? Back in the pool for the winter I have fixed most of the technique stuff that goes away a bit by OWS over the summer and am swimming 2,000 yards with ease (and actually about as fast as I have swam) a couple of nights a week. My goal for the winter, other than maintenance, is to learn how to breathe on my left side. Most courses I race up here run counter-clockwise, so I am at a disadvantage being a right side breather. I have forced myself to swim a 500 per night breathing on my left and cannot get over the "bilateral hump". A pull buoy seems to help a little, in that I can slow down and try to work on good technique, but it seems like my left arm turnover is too quick and I find I am drinking half the damn pool trying to learn this. I really only need to learn this for the sprints to get a break from some of the thrashing and, maybe, 5-10 times on an Oly or HIM swim for siting purposes. TIA for any help!!!

I can go into more detail later, but IMO bilateral breathing is a waste of time. I breathe only on the right in races and seem to do ok. Learn how to sight straight ahead properly and you won't have to try to go bilateral. (Note I'm not suggesting that breathing on the left on occasion isn't useful - I do practice it a bit in case of emergency).What I can say is that you likely need to practice rotating more to not drink the pool instead of breathing. Try the

and then try to breathe left with it. The exaggerated motion may help you get there.

 

[Darrinll40]

Hey, I found Tri-man a bike, maybe from his childhood.

 

[BassNBrew]

Wow I'm so freaking pumped right now. Went out for a 20 mile bike ride this evening. Wasn't planning on riding for speed so I started the computer when I rolled out. Wind was kicking for these parts. The short of it was I felt like a rocketship tonite. Averaged 21.1 which included numerous stops and slow downs for rush traffic and sneaking thru town twice. Heart rate average 150, low zone 3. Other than a few short hills which crushed me, the legs felt great. Felt like the wind was at my back the whole time and I had wings. Kept saying to myself, why is this so easy? Even the last 2 miles which were a gentle uphill into the wind I kept the speed above 20 mph except for a short portion. Usually that's an 18 mph section for me.

I may skip my rest day tomorrow and do a 5k just for giggles. 9 days away from the Shut-In Ridge 18 miler.

Also losing about 1 to 1.25 pounds halfway thru week 7 of my 24 week plan. Started at 230 and have been tickling 220 the last couple of days.

 

[Ned]

PSL - this was more than a cramp, I think. It's been sore to the touch ever since the incident on Sunday. I've been cautiously running all week. I haven't tried Rolaids. When I feel it, it's always a tightness sort of pain with it being maybe a 2 on a 1-10 scale.

BnB - I wish I knew what the bike stuff really meant, but judging from your excitement.

 

[2Young2BBald]

PSL - this was more than a cramp, I think. It's been sore to the touch ever since the incident on Sunday. I've been cautiously running all week. I haven't tried Rolaids. When I feel it, it's always a tightness sort of pain with it being maybe a 2 on a 1-10 scale.

BnB - I wish I knew what the bike stuff really meant, but judging from your excitement.

You might want to try a Van 2 favorite The Stick. This and a foam roller are key to working out the kinks.

 

[gruecd]

Grue: you should plan another big race next week. As much as you detest recovery and tapering, you might as well do them both at the same time. I'm just saying

See my signature.

 

[tri-man 47]

Hey, I found Tri-man a bike, maybe from his childhood.

yeah, I got a shaft drive right here for ya, kiddo.

 

[Darrinll40]

PSL - this was more than a cramp, I think. It's been sore to the touch ever since the incident on Sunday. I've been cautiously running all week. I haven't tried Rolaids. When I feel it, it's always a tightness sort of pain with it being maybe a 2 on a 1-10 scale.

BnB - I wish I knew what the bike stuff really meant, but judging from your excitement.

You might want to try a Van 2 favorite The Stick. This and a foam roller are key to working out the kinks.

I bought one as soon as I got back from Kentucky, and I use it almost every day.

 

[Darrinll40]

Hey, I found Tri-man a bike, maybe from his childhood.

yeah, I got a shaft drive right here for ya, kiddo.

To be honest, I don't feel like a kid today. I finished my second straight week of Tues 4 mile, Wed, 2 mile hills, Thurs 4.3 mile, and I am feeling it in my legs. Last night before sleep I did get the wife to use the stick on my calfs and that made them feel a lot better.

Saturday I am going to try for 7 miles, then 4 on Sunday. Next week will be more of the same except that I am only doing 5 next Saturday morning. Kind of a 3rd week setback, and so I am fresh for the 5K on the 6th. I want to at least try a 9 mile run before the 10 mile race on Thanksgiving. My only goal for that is to run all of it, but if I have to walk a bit it won't bother me too much.

 

[Ned]

PSL - this was more than a cramp, I think. It's been sore to the touch ever since the incident on Sunday. I've been cautiously running all week. I haven't tried Rolaids. When I feel it, it's always a tightness sort of pain with it being maybe a 2 on a 1-10 scale.

BnB - I wish I knew what the bike stuff really meant, but judging from your excitement.

You might want to try a Van 2 favorite The Stick. This and a foam roller are key to working out the kinks.

I bought one as soon as I got back from Kentucky, and I use it almost every day.

After reading about all of the BC shenanigans, I was pretty leery of clicking on that link.

 

[The_Man]

This morning turned out to be one of those times that I feel lucky to be a runner. Stayed up until close to 1 a.m. watching the World Series, and was not feeling it at 5:30 this morning. But I'd already missed yet another scheduled run this week, so I dragged myself out of bed and got outside. An icy blast of wind drove me back inside to grab running pants for the first time since February or March; checked the temp - 39 degrees!

But, like always, the first step was the hardest one. Once I was up, out of bed, dressed, shoes on, and on the street, everything felt great. Was debating between 7 or 8 miles for today's recovery run, and when the sky in the east just started to go from black to darkest blue at about Mile 4, I knew I was staying out there for the full 8 so I could watch the sunrise. Suddenly running in the pre-dawn darkness was a privilege, not a chore. Coolest part was that at the 7 Mile mark, as the sky was getting orange and pink, one of my favorite songs ever came up on the shuffle: "See A Little Light" by Bob Mould. Thanks, Universe!

Suitably inspired, I stepped it up for the last mile - after taking it really easy for the first seven, I wanted to see how fast I could run the final mile without laboring. So without looking at my watch, I just ran the last mile at the fastest pace I can do and still feel comfortable - 7:36. Woot! My goal marathon pace is going to be 7:40, but I've been worried about how much effort I've had to expend during my GMP runs - I've done the time, but it always feels like I'm working harder than I should be. Today, it felt good. We'll see how it feels tomorrow when I do 7 at GMP.

 

[Ned]

This morning turned out to be one of those times that I feel lucky to be a runner. Stayed up until close to 1 a.m. watching the World Series, and was not feeling it at 5:30 this morning. But I'd already missed yet another scheduled run this week, so I dragged myself out of bed and got outside. An icy blast of wind drove me back inside to grab running pants for the first time since February or March; checked the temp - 39 degrees!But, like always, the first step was the hardest one. Once I was up, out of bed, dressed, shoes on, and on the street, everything felt great. Was debating between 7 or 8 miles for today's recovery run, and when the sky in the east just started to go from black to darkest blue at about Mile 4, I knew I was staying out there for the full 8 so I could watch the sunrise. Suddenly running in the pre-dawn darkness was a privilege, not a chore. Coolest part was that at the 7 Mile mark, as the sky was getting orange and pink, one of my favorite songs ever came up on the shuffle: "See A Little Light" by Bob Mould. Thanks, Universe! Suitably inspired, I stepped it up for the last mile - after taking it really easy for the first seven, I wanted to see how fast I could run the final mile without laboring. So without looking at my watch, I just ran the last mile at the fastest pace I can do and still feel comfortable - 7:36. Woot! My goal marathon pace is going to be 7:40, but I've been worried about how much effort I've had to expend during my GMP runs - I've done the time, but it always feels like I'm working harder than I should be. Today, it felt good. We'll see how it feels tomorrow when I do 7 at GMP.

My brother is texting me the same feelings right now after having a killer 10 miler this morning. He's up in the Poconos and had some ice in his hair when he finished!He's made so much progress that we're talking about pacing each other at Philly since the full and half all run together.

 

[pigskinliquors]

The_Man: Awesome run and experience. For all the crap in our lives, the stuff we type about in this thread is an amazing escape Re: the divorced life...it ain't so bad

Ned: If it's a twinge, the stick or a foam roller will likely greatly help.

BnB: Awesome ride!! You are on the fringe of having some BIG returns on your work. Not much beats the wind feeling at your back for a full ride. The opposite is a royal suck.

Darrin: Can't wait to read your 10 mile race report on Turkey Day.

Grue: I should have known better!!!

_________________________

My update:

Thank goodness today is a scheduled rest day. Last night was a late one. I'm also pretty sure tomorrow will be an unscheduled rest day. I throw an annual Halloween Party which is tonight, then tomorrow morning I'll be at our tailgate before going to my daughter's 10:30 soccer game. After the game = back to the tailgate. A nap will be needed soon.

 

[Ned]

Had a really strong 11mi MLR for lunch today. Near perfect conditions made this sheer bliss. Sunny, breezy and 50 degrees.

The calf felt the best it's felt all week. The soreness is just about gone.

151 @ 8:52

 

[BassNBrew]

http://www.runningtimes.com/Article.aspx?ArticleID=23257

Thought you guys might find this marathon training article interesting.

 

[pigskinliquors]

Had a really strong 11mi MLR for lunch today. Near perfect conditions made this sheer bliss. Sunny, breezy and 50 degrees.

The calf felt the best it's felt all week. The soreness is just about gone.

151 @ 8:52

Great news Ned!!!!!!!!!!

 

[The_Man]

http://www.runningtimes.com/Article.aspx?ArticleID=23257

Thought you guys might find this marathon training article interesting.

Good stuff. Thanks for posting. My two takeaways were this:

Marathon Performance Training Group’s elite coach Brad Hudson says the magic number to hit in a single run is 80 minutes. “A lot of the science shows that once you reach the 80-minute mark, there is a bigger benefit in endurance enzymes made.” Hudson notes that studies have shown that the differences of enzymatic production from 60 to 80 minutes are enormous.

Pay close attention to three things you may not have looked at previously: your average pace during all your runs (ensuring you aren’t running too fast in every session so that you don’t become glycogen depleted and that you are maximizing fat burning), duration (aim for exceeding 60 minutes), and nutrition (proper fueling after your run).

Run longer, run slower, and fuel properly. That about sums up Marathon training - the philosophy that I arrived at last year, with significant influence from Grue, is:

Slow down 90 percent of your runs, speed up your speed work, and run more.

Too bad that for this cycle, I've been running shorter and faster. I am in shape for a hell of a HM. Don't want to think about what the second half of my Marathon might be like.

 

[tri-man 47]

Too bad that for this cycle, I've been running shorter and faster. I am in shape for a hell of a HM. Don't want to think about what the second half of my Marathon might be like.

But you've got the FBG secret weapon - monitor your HR. Particularly if you feel like you'll be entering some unknown territory (due to the course, your training, conditions, etc.), take the guesswork out of it by following the HR. You can't succeed more by ignoring the HR and running at a relatively faster pace ...so why try? [i got that right, Coach Ned?]

 

[The_Man]

Too bad that for this cycle, I've been running shorter and faster. I am in shape for a hell of a HM. Don't want to think about what the second half of my Marathon might be like.

But you've got the FBG secret weapon - monitor your HR. Particularly if you feel like you'll be entering some unknown territory (due to the course, your training, conditions, etc.), take the guesswork out of it by following the HR. You can't succeed more by ignoring the HR and running at a relatively faster pace ...so why try? [i got that right, Coach Ned?]

So true - this time last year I was a HR maniac, and it served me well. This time around, I got sick of wearing that thing. But I'm pretty sure its absence is one of the reasons I've been running my workouts too fast. When I tracked my HR, it definitely kept me aware of how hard I was working and stopped me from going too hard when I wasn't supposed to. Maybe I'll get back to it after this race.

 

[JFT Ben]

A little late in the day on a Friday, but anyone here doing the Haunted Hustle in Madison/Middleton WI tomorrow? I'm doing the half and will be dressed up like the Mad Hatter from the newer Alice in Wonderland. Not sure how happy I'll be with the hat/wig combo by the end but should be fun, hope to pull out 1:30 but my training has been poor as I've been nursing a sore achilles.. am guessing that will be modified early on but let's see.

 

[gruecd]

That about sums up Marathon training - the philosophy that I arrived at last year, with significant influence from Grue, is:

Slow down 90 percent of your runs, speed up your speed work, and run more.

I feel like a proud parent.

 

[Darrinll40]

This morning I had 7 miles planned and everything was looking great until I saw the morning temp. 5am and it was 70 fricken degrees with 100% humidity, I did not have high hopes.

I started easy with a 10:54 pace for mile 1.

Miles 2 and 3 were a bit faster at 10:25 and 10:35, I slowed down to 10:49 for mile 4. At about 4.5 I turn left and head up a little rise, it is not very high, but it is fairly steep. Going up that hill seemed to kill my quads and directly above each knee, I had felt it last week but not until the last mile.

Funny thin, once I topped the rise the pain went away and i felt great. Mile 5 went by at 10:16, Mile 6 at 9:40 and mile 7 at 9:36. The last would have been faster, but I forced myself to slow a bit. I think that the extra day, even though it is two miles, is really paying off. I was really encouraged when the legs stopped hurting so much.

Looking forward to reading race reports this weekend, so there had better be some.