Ran a 10k in June (2 Viewers)

[jb1020]

Nice read PSL. I plan on dusting my road bike off this summer. I got it, rode it to hell and back for about 3 months and haven't touched it in 2 years.

 

[pmbrown_22]

Great race PSL! Nice podium too. I am not down with all the lingo, but it sounds like you had a great race and you have to be riding pretty high having been so low 14 months ago. Great effort.

-------------------

I have still been kickin' it on the road. Here are my last couple of days:

Thursday: 4 miles recovery

Friday: 9 miles with a LT 4 miles at the start. 7:20, 7:27, 7:47, and 7:18. This was about what I wanted for these. Mile 3 hurt a bit as it was up a pretty good set of rollers so the effort was there.

Saturday: 4 miles recovery

Sunday: 15 miles @ 8:42 average. About even for all of them.

Overall, I am elated to be where I am at right now. With all the changes going on around the house, I did not think I would be able to keep up the training. I am still having a hard time with the long mid week run, and getting it in, but I think I am still doing well on mileage.

On a different note, I am regaining my speed at changing diapers. I think I am down to about 15 seconds flat in changing one now. I am upholding my household title as "The Glorified Buttwiper". Hey we all have to be somebody and we all have our parts to play. Might as well put everything into it that I can.

 

[jb1020]

First time I'm doing Higdon and what I don't like about it is the lack of taper. A 15mi run 1 week before a half? Strength training during taper week? Don't like it. My body is telling me to take it easy after constant training since October. (I guess I trained several weeks longer than the Higdon plan, but still...)

Everyone's different and it also depends on your mileage base, but I think a one week taper is plenty for a HM. When's your race? It's soon, right?

Sunday.Tom Holland's HM plan has you taking every other day off and doing no weights for the last 3 weeks. I made my taper similar to Higdon but without weights and with no super long runs.

Tapering is one of those things that I think you should feel free to modify as you see fit, assuming you've had some experience and know how to listen to your body. For me personally, I would not want to run 15 miles the week before a half. An easy 10 would be fine, but 15 is a just a little too much. Other people would have no problems with this, but the bottom line is that that last 15 miler is not going to really do anything to help your race-day performance when it's that close to the race itself. I've always had good experiences with doing my last long run (15 or 16 or so) two weeks before a half, and then doing something intermediate (8-10) the week before. But that's just me.

Intermediate 1 called for 15 miles the week before the scheduled HM. It worried me a bit, but everything seemed to work out just fine. I'm looking forward to my taper runs. Here's what I have left.... 20, 12, 20, 12, 8 then the marathon. Can't come soon enough.

Wow time's flying. How are you feeling? If I remember right, this should be your first 20?

Time really has flown by. It sank in last night when I bought a new carton of milk for my son, the expiration date was March 1. I thought, oh #### for a second, it pretty much here.Yes, this will be the first 20. Since the Half in early Dec I haven't missed a workout. I've had to juggle a few and I've cut a couple short, but other than that its been moderately easy (I'll eat these words Sunday). Other than my 17 mile run last weekend nothing has been too taxing. Mon-Wed is a smattering of 4-8 mile easy runs, Friday is usually a Pace run (nothing more than 8) and Sat is the long run. I still go out a little too fast on the long runs. I had to visit my BIL this weekend in Oxford, AL. We went out for a hilly 13 and he turned in at the 9 mile mark. He's a tri guy that despises the running part. I felt pretty good after he folded. My HR was at 150, which was 10 higher than my 17 the previous week, but I chalked it up to running with someone (lots of conversation) and the hills.

 

[BassNBrew]

It's been more than 14 months, but I'm finally writing a RACE REPORT!!This morning I raced in the Frostbike 50, a 55 mile ride outside of flat as hell Houston. I got to bed by 10:00 last night after having two almost all-nighters in 2 of the 3 previous days (I'm aging fast right now TriMan). I was sound asleep almost as soon as I hit my pillow, but my dog went ape-#### at 1:15 and needed attention. My best guess is that he saw an armadillo, a shadow or a bug. My alarm went off what seemed to be seconds later at 5:40. I checked the weather, made some peanut butter toast, had an excellent bm, applied butt butter and got dressed and out the door be 6:10 feeling pretty good about myself. Five miles down the road I realized I still had my water bottles in my fridge at home so I turned around, got them, and drove a bit faster than expected. I arrived at the 8:00 race at 7:25. The temp for the start of the race was 62, with 12 mph winds, and 67 and 20 mph winds at the end. I went to the restroom, registered and went back to the restroom before getting my bike ready for "Go Time." They announced that the race would be starting :05 late, so I went to the bathroom again, and found my place at the starting line (Damn it felt awesome!!!!!) with no more than 10 racers in front of me. At the gun we headed out single file, as the first half mile had at least 10 speed bumps (WTF?). I didn't hit my Garmin until we got out of the parking lot and it was game on! With multiple stop lights and intersections, the first six miles were methodical and slow into a side wind (18.6, 17.9, 19.0, 19.6, 21.1, 21.5). I was positioned at the front of the peloton, and told myself that the only way I wouldn't be in the top 5 would be if I blew up (a very possible outcome). The speed ramped up slightly over the next 5 (still a side wind), and the posers started to drop (22.6, 22.2, 22.2, 23.0, 22.5). We now had likely less than 40 in the lead group, and it was Go Time, as we caught a down wind for most of the next 11 miles. The pace was fast, but not difficult (26.6, 26.9, 26.6, 26.3, 26.9, 26.6, 26.3, 26.9, 22.7, 22.6, 26.1, 28.2, 25.7). This stretch had 2 hanky moments. Right at mile 17 there was a rest stop, and the fidiot who was pulling went into the rest stop. I was 4th in line, and the two in front of me (2 strongest riders by far) took off, trying to drop the peloton. I worked my ### off with my heart rate hitting 184 (way to soon for that ####!) to catch them by pulling four others with me. We had 7 for a couple miles before dropping 1 at mile 20. I was feeling really good about the six that were left as the two strong riders were taking long pulls, and I was taking medium ones, with the others not really doing much. All that was going great ended abruptly between miles 22 and 23. The two strong riders turned left as the rest of us turned right as they were only riding 45 miles, not the full 55 = Fudge! We now lost the down wind, and were down to 4...and not a strong 4. I'm now pretty certain this is going to blow up, I just don't know when. I took a full mile pull (23.1), then the next guy did a full mile (21.1), and the next two did less than half mile pulls (21.5), I took over for another one (22.1), than the other guy did one (22.1) then the bastages both did less than a tenth of a mile. I said F that and put the hammer down for a 24.2 (I did half the mile, other guy did a half) and we dropped the other two after mile 27. We were now just 2 at the freaking halfway point. The two of us worked really well together for 9 miles (28-36) taking equal pulls, and encouraging each other (20.9, 22.6, 21.3, 20.7, 20.2, 22.5, 23.4, 21.6, 21.4). Before mile 37 the other guy pulled up next to me and said he needed the rest stop, and I thought about stopping with him for a second but didn't want to post in here that I had to stop = I was now the lone wolf! The super sucky part was that the last 18 were now mostly right into the wind that was getting stronger. I now was focused on not letting anybody pass me. I looked back every .5 miles, and kept my feet pedaling. Miles 37-45 were very lonely (except for some 45 milers that I was passing) and mostly into the wind (19.2, 17.7, 17.2, 19.7, 18.0, 19.5, 18.3, 20.2, 20.1). During this stretch my HR stayed in the mid to upper 160's, and I felt darn comfortable. The last rest stop was at mile 46'ish and I loved riding right by it. I went less than a block past it where the road forked and there was no sign for which way to turn. I quickly u-turned and went back toward the rest stop and asked a cop directing traffic which way to turn (without stopping) and he didn't know. A race Marshall passed and I took off to catch him. He turned right and I asked him if he knew for sure if it was right and he said he didn't = Roh Roh! Luckily less than a tenth of a mile up the road a 45 miler was coming back at us and said to go back the other way. Another u-turn and I was back at it. From here forward there was literally no signs (found out when we got in, that somebody stole most of the last signs as a likely prank (sick *******!). Miles 46-49 were darn confusing with poor signage (17.6, 18.0, 19.1, 18.8). I caught up (thankfully) with a 45 miler who had a Garmin 500 with GPS and he was struggling, but knew where to go! We plugged along with a 15.5 and a 15.7 before my buddy who stopped at mile 47 joined us! The two of us pulled the other guy along at a slow pace as there were multiple turns but ZERO signs. We did a 19.3 and a 19.6 for miles 53 and 54, and I forgot to turn my Garmin off while coasting to my car for an 11.6 recorded last lap which was just .34 miles. In all it was 54.34 miles in 2:36:57. Average pace was 2:53 (20.8 MPH), AVE HR was 165 (darn low for me!) and MAX HR was 184 (while chasing down the breakaway. My HR never hit 180 after mile 19. The race organizers were ecstatic to see us as the 45 milers weren't in yet and they were getting worried. Without GPS dood, I'd likely still be out there. I got my bike put away, and a couple of slices in my belly, before the two strong riders that did the 45 came in. They had European accents and let the pizza-giving volunteers know how awful they were for having no signage coming in. They were just the start of many others who were quite displeased. Thanks again Garmin Dood!P.S. I now need a full GPS Garmin.

Nice ride dude. Are organizers allowed to paint the road in your area? We have so many rides that every intersection around here looks like art work. Do you have your license yet to start accumulating your 10 cat 5 starts? Those events will have a moto bike or car leading the way.Since you like to trave; blood, sweat, and gears is the 4th saturday in June. I've got you covered on a place to stay and food.

 

[17seconds]

I managed a HM PR yesterday in the Carlsbad Half! 1:43:19 My goal was to break an 8:00 overall pace and I came in at 7:53! Here's a summary:

Morning was cold for me (low 40s and overcast) so I debated whether to wear long sleeves or not and did go with the long sleeves. The right decision I think but probably could have gone with short sleeves as well. The course has a lot of small rolling hills, top elevation is only 75'. Even so, I had a hill strategy. Take it easy going up all the hills, lengthen stride and go fast on the downhills. Miles 7-10 have a general flat/downhill terrain so my plan was to run those well below target pace, go smooth from 10-12, then run hard for the last mile which is downhill and flat.

Felt nausea throughout the race so I was cautious about taking GUs or energy drinks along the way. I only took 1 GU at mile 5 and the rest was water. Started the day with instant oatmeal, a banana, and then a GU chomps just before the race. Since it was cool I had enough in my system to get through. Also felt leg cramps coming on for the 2nd half of the race but salt tablets kept them at bay - I didn't actually cramp.

My strategy of negative splits really worked. Plan was to go out at 8:30 pace and try for 1min behind pace at the halfway point, then make up that minute and more in the 2nd half. I was exactly 1min behind at mile 7 (57:00), then started running sub 8min miles the rest of the way.

Felt much better after the race this time. Tired, but able to chase kids around the rest of the day.

Splits

1 8:29.3 1.00 8:29

2 8:01.3 1.00 8:01

3 8:15.6 1.00 8:16

4 7:46.3 1.00 7:46

5 8:01.6 1.00 8:02

6 7:46.9 1.00 7:47

7 8:05.9 1.00 8:06

8 7:41.1 1.00 7:41

9 7:18.3 1.00 7:18

10 7:36.3 1.00 7:36

11 7:48.6 1.00 7:49

12 7:57.9 1.00 7:58

13 7:09.0

Right now I'm feeling like upgrading to a full 26.2 for my next race which is 6/3.

 

[Sand]

liquors - fantastic report! Very odd about the missing signage ...frustrating for the racers, too, of course. Sand, I guess we'd better get a new 'podium' spreadsheet started for 2012!!!

New link same as the old link. PSL get your stuff in there!Nice race, BTW. Was this a Cat 5 event?

Nice run 17! Nice negative split.

----

Nothing much on my end. Got 3 rides, a slow run, and a good swim in this weekend. Even better I managed to snag an almost-new Finis Swimsense for over half off retail (people are selling now that the Garmin 910xt is out). Now I can be even more anal about my swim workouts!

 

[Ned]

I managed a HM PR yesterday in the Carlsbad Half! 1:43:19 My goal was to break an 8:00 overall pace and I came in at 7:53! Here's a summary:

Morning was cold for me (low 40s and overcast) so I debated whether to wear long sleeves or not and did go with the long sleeves. The right decision I think but probably could have gone with short sleeves as well. The course has a lot of small rolling hills, top elevation is only 75'. Even so, I had a hill strategy. Take it easy going up all the hills, lengthen stride and go fast on the downhills. Miles 7-10 have a general flat/downhill terrain so my plan was to run those well below target pace, go smooth from 10-12, then run hard for the last mile which is downhill and flat.

Felt nausea throughout the race so I was cautious about taking GUs or energy drinks along the way. I only took 1 GU at mile 5 and the rest was water. Started the day with instant oatmeal, a banana, and then a GU chomps just before the race. Since it was cool I had enough in my system to get through. Also felt leg cramps coming on for the 2nd half of the race but salt tablets kept them at bay - I didn't actually cramp.

My strategy of negative splits really worked. Plan was to go out at 8:30 pace and try for 1min behind pace at the halfway point, then make up that minute and more in the 2nd half. I was exactly 1min behind at mile 7 (57:00), then started running sub 8min miles the rest of the way.

Felt much better after the race this time. Tired, but able to chase kids around the rest of the day.

Splits

1 8:29.3 1.00 8:29

2 8:01.3 1.00 8:01

3 8:15.6 1.00 8:16

4 7:46.3 1.00 7:46

5 8:01.6 1.00 8:02

6 7:46.9 1.00 7:47

7 8:05.9 1.00 8:06

8 7:41.1 1.00 7:41

9 7:18.3 1.00 7:18

10 7:36.3 1.00 7:36

11 7:48.6 1.00 7:49

12 7:57.9 1.00 7:58

13 7:09.0

Right now I'm feeling like upgrading to a full 26.2 for my next race which is 6/3.

1:43 is cookin'! Great job racing the plan too!

 

[tri-man 47]

I am upholding my household title as "The Glorified Buttwiper". Hey we all have to be somebody and we all have our parts to play. Might as well put everything into it that I can.

Oh, sure, you tell us about this skill set AFTER the Bourbon Chase is over. --

jb - I hope the 20 miler goes well! I'm a fan of getting beyond 20, so here's a thought: Run your 20, and as you get back home ...add another mile loop. It gets you past that 20 mile hurdle and gives you a strong mental edge about pushing a little further when you are really ready to stop.

17 - great job on the HM! Excellent controlled pacing ...an anti-SandTM race.

 

[pigskinliquors]

So did you win this thing overall?! It was interesting to see how much teamwork is involved with your competitors. I never would've guessed that so much went into it, but I guess thinking back it makes sense from a wind perspective.

Same here. That was an interesting read. Nice race.

Teamwork is huge in cycling. Riding in a pack can save up to 40% of effort. Imagine if you could be running at 5k pace, while only feeling like you were running marathon training pace. It's like that. I certainly wasn't the best cyclist at the event, but I was likely the most motivated to "race." This was the first of many smaller events here geared to get ready for the MS150 race which will have over 10,000 riders. Most treat it as a leisurely "ride". Having been away from the start line for so long, I needed to race.

I...haven't touched it in 2 years.

Ouch. I touch it whenever I can.

I am upholding my household title as "The Glorified Buttwiper". Hey we all have to be somebody and we all have our parts to play. Might as well put everything into it that I can.

Awesome job GB (now has multiple meanings!). Also great that you are keeping up with your training

Are organizers allowed to paint the road in your area? We have so many rides that every intersection around here looks like art work. Do you have your license yet to start accumulating your 10 cat 5 starts? Those events will have a moto bike or car leading the way.

Since you like to trave; blood, sweat, and gears is the 4th saturday in June. I've got you covered on a place to stay and food.

Most of our rides use paint as well. No clue why they didn't. What is this license thingy regarding 10 starts ? Last Saturday of June is no bueno, as the Cruise Tourism class that I teach will be on a cruise (final project) that week. It's a tough job but somebody has to do it.

I managed a HM PR yesterday in the Carlsbad Half! 1:43:19 My goal was to break an 8:00 overall pace and I came in at 7:53!

Right now I'm feeling like upgrading to a full 26.2 for my next race which is 6/3.

Awesome race 17sec's! I think you already know the answer to whether you should upgrade. DO IT! Only God knows how many chances you'll have at doing a marathon. Do this one while you are physically and mentally ready.

 

[pigskinliquors]

I downloaded my data into Garmin Training Center last night. Here it is!

1st Page: = the map. We started/finished at the little tip above "529 in lower right hand corner. Winds were out of the south to show where we were fighting vs. with it. The triangle in upper left corner was the 10 miles 55 milers did vs. 45 milers.

Pages 2 and 3 = my raw data. I'm most happy with my HR. It only got into any danger at miles 7&8 and 17&18. Both times were for break aways that I wasn't going to lose.

First Graph: one line shows my HR. You can see how it bounced around quite a bit when riding with other (pulling vs. drafting) and really calmed down when I was alone. Other shows my pace. Three really slow peaks = the start (traffic lights), mile 46 (being lost) and not turning off my gps at the end (54.3).

Second Graph: shows speed with elevation. As flat as it was, you can still see how correlated (inversely) they were.

 

[Ned]

I downloaded my data into Garmin Training Center last night. Here it is!

1st Page: = the map. We started/finished at the little tip above "529 in lower right hand corner. Winds were out of the south to show where we were fighting vs. with it. The triangle in upper left corner was the 10 miles 55 milers did vs. 45 milers.

Pages 2 and 3 = my raw data. I'm most happy with my HR. It only got into any danger at miles 7&8 and 17&18. Both times were for break aways that I wasn't going to lose.

First Graph: one line shows my HR. You can see how it bounced around quite a bit when riding with other (pulling vs. drafting) and really calmed down when I was alone. Other shows my pace. Three really slow peaks = the start (traffic lights), mile 46 (being lost) and not turning off my gps at the end (54.3).

Second Graph: shows speed with elevation. As flat as it was, you can still see how correlated (inversely) they were.

Too cool! This weather we're having is straight up nutty. On Sunday I was covered in ice. Today I did my 6mi recovery run in shorts and a tshirt. It seriously feels like April. The run was great to boot - 9:44/142. Loving these lower HR runs.

 

[Sand]

I downloaded my data into Garmin Training Center last night. Here it is!

PSA: Please move to Garmin Connect. GTC is pretty awful. Or even better load it to Strava.

 

[BassNBrew]

I managed a HM PR yesterday in the Carlsbad Half! 1:43:19 My goal was to break an 8:00 overall pace and I came in at 7:53! Here's a summary:

Morning was cold for me (low 40s and overcast) so I debated whether to wear long sleeves or not and did go with the long sleeves. The right decision I think but probably could have gone with short sleeves as well. The course has a lot of small rolling hills, top elevation is only 75'. Even so, I had a hill strategy. Take it easy going up all the hills, lengthen stride and go fast on the downhills. Miles 7-10 have a general flat/downhill terrain so my plan was to run those well below target pace, go smooth from 10-12, then run hard for the last mile which is downhill and flat.

Felt nausea throughout the race so I was cautious about taking GUs or energy drinks along the way. I only took 1 GU at mile 5 and the rest was water. Started the day with instant oatmeal, a banana, and then a GU chomps just before the race. Since it was cool I had enough in my system to get through. Also felt leg cramps coming on for the 2nd half of the race but salt tablets kept them at bay - I didn't actually cramp.

My strategy of negative splits really worked. Plan was to go out at 8:30 pace and try for 1min behind pace at the halfway point, then make up that minute and more in the 2nd half. I was exactly 1min behind at mile 7 (57:00), then started running sub 8min miles the rest of the way.

Felt much better after the race this time. Tired, but able to chase kids around the rest of the day.

Splits

1 8:29.3 1.00 8:29

2 8:01.3 1.00 8:01

3 8:15.6 1.00 8:16

4 7:46.3 1.00 7:46

5 8:01.6 1.00 8:02

6 7:46.9 1.00 7:47

7 8:05.9 1.00 8:06

8 7:41.1 1.00 7:41

9 7:18.3 1.00 7:18

10 7:36.3 1.00 7:36

11 7:48.6 1.00 7:49

12 7:57.9 1.00 7:58

13 7:09.0

Right now I'm feeling like upgrading to a full 26.2 for my next race which is 6/3.

Way to knock it out of the park. With a good training cycle, 8 m/m pace should be obtainable for the full.

 

[pigskinliquors]

Ned: I can get a 142 HR walking to my car

BnB: Any desire to make a run at 4:30 with my at HHH this year (this also goes for Sand, 2Y, Tri and Grue)

I downloaded my data into Garmin Training Center last night. Here it is!

PSA: Please move to Garmin Connect. GTC is pretty awful. Or even better load it to Strava.

Yes sir. My update:

I had DOMS yesterday, but still got in 50 minutes (6.5 miles) on the the elliptical. I'm going to just spin for :30 today, before hopefully doing a good workout tomorrow. I'm now likely to be signing up for a 71 miler on 2/11, on a hillier course. This one should give me a good idea of where I'm at.

 

[sho nuff]

Got 8 in today on the greenway before the rain came.

Forgot the HR monitor this morning...struggled to slow down but kept the pace at 9:52 for this one. I know these longer runs should be run slower, it is just hard sometimes to go much slower than this for me (not trying to brag...my feet just don't want to go that pace anymore).

 

[17seconds]

Way to knock it out of the park. With a good training cycle, 8 m/m pace should be obtainable for the full.

Thanks! Serious? I'd just want to finish in under 4 hours. Should I be going for under 3:40?

 

[IvanKaramazov]

Way to knock it out of the park. With a good training cycle, 8 m/m pace should be obtainable for the full.

Thanks! Serious? I'd just want to finish in under 4 hours. Should I be going for under 3:40?

That was a nice half. Based on that time, you should have no problem finishing under 4:00 -- that would be a super-conservative time goal. The McMillan calculator has you at about a 3:40, although that tends to be a little on the aggressive side.

 

[gruecd]

Way to knock it out of the park. With a good training cycle, 8 m/m pace should be obtainable for the full.

Assuming he's doing enough mileage, I'd agree.

 

[gruecd]

BnB: Any desire to make a run at 4:30 with my at HHH this year (this also goes for Sand, 2Y, Tri and Grue)

I don't even know what that is.

 

[tri-man 47]

Way to knock it out of the park. With a good training cycle, 8 m/m pace should be obtainable for the full.

Thanks! Serious? I'd just want to finish in under 4 hours. Should I be going for under 3:40?

A rule of thumb (which I find realistic): HM x 2, plus ten minutes. 1:43 --> 3:36So sub-3:40 is achievable with appropriate training!

 

[Ned]

Way to knock it out of the park. With a good training cycle, 8 m/m pace should be obtainable for the full.

Thanks! Serious? I'd just want to finish in under 4 hours. Should I be going for under 3:40?

That was a nice half. Based on that time, you should have no problem finishing under 4:00 -- that would be a super-conservative time goal. The McMillan calculator has you at about a 3:40, although that tends to be a little on the aggressive side.

I'm with Ivan on the conservative part. Meeting these calcs requires a tremendous mileage base.

 

[gruecd]

I'm with Ivan on the conservative part. Meeting these calcs requires a tremendous mileage base.

Define "tremendous." I agree that it does require a good amount of mileage, but nothing ridiculous. If his plan even gets up into the 50s, I think he can do it.

 

[gruecd]

Right now I'm feeling like upgrading to a full 26.2 for my next race which is 6/3.

You could do an 18-week marathon training plan starting next Monday. If you did something like Pfitz 18/55, you'd start out with weekly mileage in the 30s and a long run of 12 miles to a peak week of 55 miles with a 20-mile LR. If you did this, I think sub-3:40 could definitely be do-able.

 

[gruecd]

liquors - Just realized that I neglected to give you props on an awesome bike race. Way to go!!

 

[pigskinliquors]

Way to knock it out of the park. With a good training cycle, 8 m/m pace should be obtainable for the full.

Thanks! Serious? I'd just want to finish in under 4 hours. Should I be going for under 3:40?

Here's Running World's Training Calculator: They say 3:35! Regarding mileage needed, I used training calculators for my races and generally found them to be very accurate. I also have NEVER run more than 40 miles in any given week, even though I've done a handful of marathons and one ultra. My key was to always get three good workouts in (pace, speed, distance) every week, and to cross train. Sub 4:00 would be selling yourself short (No offense 2y2BB) if you asked me.

BnB: Any desire to make a run at 4:30 with my at HHH this year (this also goes for Sand, 2Y, Tri and Grue)

I don't even know what that is.

HHH! It's an uber fast 103 mile ride/race. With your new tri goals I kind of thought you might be interested

 

[Ned]

I'm with Ivan on the conservative part. Meeting these calcs requires a tremendous mileage base.

Define "tremendous." I agree that it does require a good amount of mileage, but nothing ridiculous. If his plan even gets up into the 50s, I think he can do it.

I'm in the minority, but I think these calculators are too aggressive when using it as a goal setter for your first marathon. I'd be more comfortable saying he can shoot for 3:40 for his second marathon. Not to say that I think he can't do it, it's just leaving zero room for error.

 

[17seconds]

I'm with Ivan on the conservative part. Meeting these calcs requires a tremendous mileage base.

Define "tremendous." I agree that it does require a good amount of mileage, but nothing ridiculous. If his plan even gets up into the 50s, I think he can do it.

I'm in the minority, but I think these calculators are too aggressive when using it as a goal setter for your first marathon. I'd be more comfortable saying he can shoot for 3:40 for his second marathon. Not to say that I think he can't do it, it's just leaving zero room for error.

According to those calculators it says I can do a 1:40 half based on my 5K time. That is very aggressive and 3mins under the PR I just set. For my first full, most of my goal is to finish without having to walk so I want to be conservative. It may be the only full I ever do. If I love it, of course I'll do more but it's a completion goal. I like the HM distance.Also, I'm kind of burned out on training right now. I did a 20 week plan for that last HM. I have a 5K coming up in 2 mos so I'll be doing mostly speed work to try and do a PR. Wasn't going to start high mileage marathon training until at least mid-march.

 

[Ned]

I'm with Ivan on the conservative part. Meeting these calcs requires a tremendous mileage base.

Define "tremendous." I agree that it does require a good amount of mileage, but nothing ridiculous. If his plan even gets up into the 50s, I think he can do it.

I'm in the minority, but I think these calculators are too aggressive when using it as a goal setter for your first marathon. I'd be more comfortable saying he can shoot for 3:40 for his second marathon. Not to say that I think he can't do it, it's just leaving zero room for error.

According to those calculators it says I can do a 1:40 half based on my 5K time. That is very aggressive and 3mins under the PR I just set. For my first full, most of my goal is to finish without having to walk so I want to be conservative. It may be the only full I ever do. If I love it, of course I'll do more but it's a completion goal. I like the HM distance.Also, I'm kind of burned out on training right now. I did a 20 week plan for that last HM. I have a 5K coming up in 2 mos so I'll be doing mostly speed work to try and do a PR. Wasn't going to start high mileage marathon training until at least mid-march.

My 5K PR plugged in to the McMillan calc spits out a 1:38 HM. I guess my endurance sucks, because I'd drop dead trying to run that. You're going into this with the right mindset, IMO. You'll come to a point where you want to figure out a pacing plan. Let your training dictate your pacing.If you're burnt out, this is not the time to start marathon training. Get your mind clear first. Maybe the speed training will help reset you.

 

[BassNBrew]

Way to knock it out of the park. With a good training cycle, 8 m/m pace should be obtainable for the full.

Thanks! Serious? I'd just want to finish in under 4 hours. Should I be going for under 3:40?

I read the other replies and your response. I'd wait on the marathon until you could commit to at least a 12 wk plan with a decent base coming into it. you're in a great spot to do that right now, but if you're burned out no sense fighting that.The problem with a goal of 4 hr is that you'd be looking at a 9:05 to 9;10 pace. Can you really run that slow? During training your long runs would be around 10:30 and tempo runs slower than you ran the half. If you're going to train at faster paces, you might as well race at a faster pace. Even if you did 20 miles at 8:00 pace you could blow up and do the last 6.2 mi at almost a 13 m/m pace and crack 4 hr. My theory is why put in all that work, time, and expense for essentailly a fun run with your talent. You could crack 4 hr solo self supported if you just wanted to say that you did a sub 4 hr mary.

 

[BassNBrew]

18 miles yesterday in 2:59. Felt good physically, but obviously the hr drifted up as I tried to maintain pace. followed that up 2 hours later with 30 minutes lifting and 20 min on the stair climber. temps were in the 40's with sun and I got hot in the shorts and short sleeve shirt. i ran the first 6 without the fuel belt and then strapped it on. it had to weight over 5 lbs with 4 pounds of fluid alone. start off at 221 lb and finished at 217 lb. really noticing the impact of dropping weight on the slight hill i hit.

Split time Lap time HR Avg HR Notes

1 0:09'58.8 0:09'58.8 125 147

2 0:20'18.4 0:10'19.6 128 132

3 0:29'43.6 0:09'25.2 143 141

4 0:39'39.8 0:09'56.2 133 138

5 0:49'11.6 0:09'31.8 137 141

6 0:58'50.2 0:09'38.6 145 136

7 1:09'04.2 0:10'14 143 139

8 1:19'43.6 0:10'39.4 144 140

9 1:29'09.9 0:09'26.3 143 147

10 1:39'19.3 0:10'09.4 145 146

11 1:48'27.5 0:09'08.2 144 146

12 1:58'05.3 0:09'37.8 141 145

13 2:08'03.3 0:09'58 159 145

14 2:18'31 0:10'27.7 143 149

15 2:28'39.4 0:10'08.4 149 152

16 2:38'40.9 0:10'01.5 143 148

17 2:48'59.1 0:10'18.2 150 149

18 2:58'56.7 0:09'57.6 156 148

 

[pmbrown_22]

17 seconds - I am really seeing both sides on this. Sure it is very important to have a goal to push you, but if you are burnt out then let that dog lie as your training will be more like a job for the marathon and you will not enjoy the experience of it. Much of running a marathon is about the journey getting there. You have to kind of enjoy that part and if you are burnt out now you definitely will not get your head right jumping into that training.

The other side of this is that this is your first marathon and you really want to enjoy it. If you set an over aggressive goal, you may not enjoy that race so much if you are constantly trying to meet your times. The marathon is a different kind of race than anything you have done before. I always tell first timers to just get through that first race and enjoy it. Don't worry so much about the time as that could drive you crazy. There will be plenty of time to obsess over your time (like the rest of us do) if you even enjoy it enough to want to run another one.

Just my .02.

----------------

As for me, this week has been a struggle. I have been getting less sleep this week and I have been in no mood to run. I averaged about 4 hours of sleep for Sunday through Tuesday nights. I still did get out there and do 5 miles, but man did it kill me.

I am thinking this is going to be an unintentional step down week and then try and get back at it next week.

Have a great day all.

 

[jb1020]

I'm with Ivan on the conservative part. Meeting these calcs requires a tremendous mileage base.

Define "tremendous." I agree that it does require a good amount of mileage, but nothing ridiculous. If his plan even gets up into the 50s, I think he can do it.

I'm in the minority, but I think these calculators are too aggressive when using it as a goal setter for your first marathon. I'd be more comfortable saying he can shoot for 3:40 for his second marathon. Not to say that I think he can't do it, it's just leaving zero room for error.

Agreed. My 1:58 HM translates into a 4:12 full. Having never run a full this seems rather daunting, doable, but daunting. I've set my goal at 4:30.

 

[Ned]

18 miles yesterday in 2:59. Felt good physically, but obviously the hr drifted up as I tried to maintain pace. followed that up 2 hours later with 30 minutes lifting and 20 min on the stair climber. temps were in the 40's with sun and I got hot in the shorts and short sleeve shirt. i ran the first 6 without the fuel belt and then strapped it on. it had to weight over 5 lbs with 4 pounds of fluid alone. start off at 221 lb and finished at 217 lb. really noticing the impact of dropping weight on the slight hill i hit. Split time Lap time HR Avg HR Notes 1 0:09'58.8 0:09'58.8 125 147 2 0:20'18.4 0:10'19.6 128 132 3 0:29'43.6 0:09'25.2 143 141 4 0:39'39.8 0:09'56.2 133 138 5 0:49'11.6 0:09'31.8 137 141 6 0:58'50.2 0:09'38.6 145 136 7 1:09'04.2 0:10'14 143 139 8 1:19'43.6 0:10'39.4 144 140 9 1:29'09.9 0:09'26.3 143 147 10 1:39'19.3 0:10'09.4 145 146 11 1:48'27.5 0:09'08.2 144 146 12 1:58'05.3 0:09'37.8 141 145 13 2:08'03.3 0:09'58 159 145 14 2:18'31 0:10'27.7 143 149 15 2:28'39.4 0:10'08.4 149 152 16 2:38'40.9 0:10'01.5 143 148 17 2:48'59.1 0:10'18.2 150 149 18 2:58'56.7 0:09'57.6 156 148

How ya feelin' as you head into T-4 weeks? That HR drift is a B. I wish I could be more linear, but I always drift.

 

[pigskinliquors]

...the hr drifted up as I tried to maintain pace. ...really noticing the impact of dropping weight on the slight hill i hit.

Great workout BnB Do you have a target weight to get down to? I'm on the other extreme, as I can certainly feel the extra weight when doing hills right now (at least descents are better). Also, what's your HR max, as those HR's look very moderate, and it's impressive how steady they were (sans the 159 at mile 13).

I am thinking this is going to be an unintentional step down week and then try and get back at it next week.

Nothing wrong with a step down week. With the sleep you've been getting, small workouts might help you maintain a little bit of energy. It's a great time of the year to get your body healthy and fresh.

 

[tri-man 47]

The other side of this is that this is your first marathon and you really want to enjoy it. If you set an over aggressive goal, you may not enjoy that race so much if you are constantly trying to meet your times. The marathon is a different kind of race than anything you have done before. I always tell first timers to just get through that first race and enjoy it. Don't worry so much about the time as that could drive you crazy. There will be plenty of time to obsess over your time (like the rest of us do) if you even enjoy it enough to want to run another one.

While the data might suggest a sub-3:40 for 17seconds, a sub-4:00 first marathon would be excellent ...train hard, then maybe go for sub-4:00 and see how the body responds in the late miles.The charts like McMillan are a good gauge, but (a) it's still a matter of training (as gruecd notes), and (b) some runners are just better at the short stuff while others are better at the endurance races. It's tough to be a master of all.HR drift - I found that the HR did drift higher in my marathons. But that makes sense. The muscles tire and call for more oxygen, so the heart has to work harder to fuel them. That's why it's important to keep the HR under control in the early part of an endurance race.

 

[sho nuff]

Alright...have gotten by with most of the gear that I have so far...but looking for a pretty lightweight wind jacket.

Water resistant would be nice too...but mostly interested in the wind protection.

Have liked the look of the Brooks Essential and I think the Saucony Epic too.

Anyone have something they really like?

 

[Ned]

The other side of this is that this is your first marathon and you really want to enjoy it. If you set an over aggressive goal, you may not enjoy that race so much if you are constantly trying to meet your times. The marathon is a different kind of race than anything you have done before. I always tell first timers to just get through that first race and enjoy it. Don't worry so much about the time as that could drive you crazy. There will be plenty of time to obsess over your time (like the rest of us do) if you even enjoy it enough to want to run another one.

While the data might suggest a sub-3:40 for 17seconds, a sub-4:00 first marathon would be excellent ...train hard, then maybe go for sub-4:00 and see how the body responds in the late miles.The charts like McMillan are a good gauge, but (a) it's still a matter of training (as gruecd notes), and (b) some runners are just better at the short stuff while others are better at the endurance races. It's tough to be a master of all.HR drift - I found that the HR did drift higher in my marathons. But that makes sense. The muscles tire and call for more oxygen, so the heart has to work harder to fuel them. That's why it's important to keep the HR under control in the early part of an endurance race.

I wish I could find that report/article that grue posted about a year ago where the guy in the article insisted that he could train virtually anyone to master an endurance event. I may not be remembering it right, but that's what stuck with me. He seemed to really toot the horn of the majority of your runs should be 150 HR type runs. He said anyone with a big desparity between their shorter distance PRs and marathons just lack endurance (which could be trained).Grue - does this ring a bell? I think it was actually a link to a word doc?

 

[IvanKaramazov]

I'm with Ivan on the conservative part. Meeting these calcs requires a tremendous mileage base.

Define "tremendous." I agree that it does require a good amount of mileage, but nothing ridiculous. If his plan even gets up into the 50s, I think he can do it.

I'm in the minority, but I think these calculators are too aggressive when using it as a goal setter for your first marathon. I'd be more comfortable saying he can shoot for 3:40 for his second marathon. Not to say that I think he can't do it, it's just leaving zero room for error.

Agreed. My 1:58 HM translates into a 4:12 full. Having never run a full this seems rather daunting, doable, but daunting. I've set my goal at 4:30.

Like gruecd pointed out above, these calculators assume you're training for the full with a similar relative intensity/volume to what you trained for your half. When you PRed the half, you probably trained pretty hard for it -- you weren't training "just to finish." Therein lies the problem for first-time marathoners. Most novice marathon training programs are really just designed to get you across the finish line. They're not comparable to "PR your next half-mary" programs. Sure, they have a lot more miles, but they're light relative to the step up in distance.If your overall endurance level is high enough that you can jump right into something like 18/55 for your first full, then you can probably get pretty close to your McMillan projected time. But if you're doing something more like Higdon's novice program, those calculations are just setting you up for disappointment on race day.

 

[17seconds]

Thanks for all the comments on the marathon training. I'm on work travel this week, eating a lot and haven't done a workout since the race last Sunday.

Not feeling quite as burnt out now! Can't wait to do a smooth 6.5 miles tomorrow when I'm back home.

 

[gruecd]

Grue - does this ring a bell? I think it was actually a link to a word doc?

This? Hadd's Approach to Distance Training

 

[Ned]

Grue - does this ring a bell? I think it was actually a link to a word doc?

This? Hadd's Approach to Distance Training

Yes! Thanks, GB.

 

[gruecd]

Like gruecd pointed out above, these calculators assume you're training for the full with a similar relative intensity/volume to what you trained for your half. When you PRed the half, you probably trained pretty hard for it -- you weren't training "just to finish." Therein lies the problem for first-time marathoners. Most novice marathon training programs are really just designed to get you across the finish line. They're not comparable to "PR your next half-mary" programs. Sure, they have a lot more miles, but they're light relative to the step up in distance.

If your overall endurance level is high enough that you can jump right into something like 18/55 for your first full, then you can probably get pretty close to your McMillan projected time. But if you're doing something more like Higdon's novice program, those calculations are just setting you up for disappointment on race day.

Well stated.And for the record, I'm not saying that he should attempt the sub-3:40 marathon, just that there's a real chance that he could do it. I did my first marathon just to finish, thinking it was just something to cross off the bucket list. Ended up running 3:45:41 and feeling great, and here I am 16 marathons later.

Honestly, my best advice for a first-timer is to run the first 20 miles nice and easy. If you've got something left in the tank, then "race" the last 10K. I can't tell you how good it feels to be the guy passing people at the end of a race. As I'm sure the other guys can attest, it's much better than the alternative!

 

[17seconds]

Honestly, my best advice for a first-timer is to run the first 20 miles nice and easy. If you've got something left in the tank, then "race" the last 10K.

I think this is a great idea and what I'll do.

 

[2Young2BBald]

Fellow s. Kindle's free app earlier this week was Keep Track Pro. Its an Android app, but I'd bet there is an Apple version. Its a slick and simple tracking app for just about anything you'd want to measure. Currently I am tracking my weight (such a girl) to overlay the data on my training record (and to get me to stop being such a ). There is a bit of a glitch when using decimals, in that it will only take whole number first, but you can add the decimal by doing a quick edit. Not sure if its still free.

eta:

Check Out These Socks

 

[sho nuff]

Like gruecd pointed out above, these calculators assume you're training for the full with a similar relative intensity/volume to what you trained for your half. When you PRed the half, you probably trained pretty hard for it -- you weren't training "just to finish." Therein lies the problem for first-time marathoners. Most novice marathon training programs are really just designed to get you across the finish line. They're not comparable to "PR your next half-mary" programs. Sure, they have a lot more miles, but they're light relative to the step up in distance.

If your overall endurance level is high enough that you can jump right into something like 18/55 for your first full, then you can probably get pretty close to your McMillan projected time. But if you're doing something more like Higdon's novice program, those calculations are just setting you up for disappointment on race day.

Well stated.And for the record, I'm not saying that he should attempt the sub-3:40 marathon, just that there's a real chance that he could do it. I did my first marathon just to finish, thinking it was just something to cross off the bucket list. Ended up running 3:45:41 and feeling great, and here I am 16 marathons later.

Honestly, my best advice for a first-timer is to run the first 20 miles nice and easy. If you've got something left in the tank, then "race" the last 10K. I can't tell you how good it feels to be the guy passing people at the end of a race. As I'm sure the other guys can attest, it's much better than the alternative!

Love this...and by next december this will likely be my plan.In a way, my first half was that way.

I kind of underdid the first 9, there at the end I felt great and pushed the pace and was passing people down the end.

My second I did the opposite and went out fast and hit the wall on the huge hill at mile 9 and again the hill at mile 12.

 

[BassNBrew]

Like gruecd pointed out above, these calculators assume you're training for the full with a similar relative intensity/volume to what you trained for your half. When you PRed the half, you probably trained pretty hard for it -- you weren't training "just to finish." Therein lies the problem for first-time marathoners. Most novice marathon training programs are really just designed to get you across the finish line. They're not comparable to "PR your next half-mary" programs. Sure, they have a lot more miles, but they're light relative to the step up in distance.

If your overall endurance level is high enough that you can jump right into something like 18/55 for your first full, then you can probably get pretty close to your McMillan projected time. But if you're doing something more like Higdon's novice program, those calculations are just setting you up for disappointment on race day.

Well stated.And for the record, I'm not saying that he should attempt the sub-3:40 marathon, just that there's a real chance that he could do it. I did my first marathon just to finish, thinking it was just something to cross off the bucket list. Ended up running 3:45:41 and feeling great, and here I am 16 marathons later.

Honestly, my best advice for a first-timer is to run the first 20 miles nice and easy. If you've got something left in the tank, then "race" the last 10K. I can't tell you how good it feels to be the guy passing people at the end of a race. As I'm sure the other guys can attest, it's much better than the alternative!

So what pace do you run your first 20 at?????

 

[BassNBrew]

...the hr drifted up as I tried to maintain pace. ...really noticing the impact of dropping weight on the slight hill i hit.

Great workout BnB Do you have a target weight to get down to? I'm on the other extreme, as I can certainly feel the extra weight when doing hills right now (at least descents are better). Also, what's your HR max, as those HR's look very moderate, and it's impressive how steady they were (sans the 159 at mile 13).

I am thinking this is going to be an unintentional step down week and then try and get back at it next week.

Nothing wrong with a step down week. With the sleep you've been getting, small workouts might help you maintain a little bit of energy. It's a great time of the year to get your body healthy and fresh.

210 goal weight

 

[BassNBrew]

18 miles yesterday in 2:59. Felt good physically, but obviously the hr drifted up as I tried to maintain pace. followed that up 2 hours later with 30 minutes lifting and 20 min on the stair climber. temps were in the 40's with sun and I got hot in the shorts and short sleeve shirt. i ran the first 6 without the fuel belt and then strapped it on. it had to weight over 5 lbs with 4 pounds of fluid alone. start off at 221 lb and finished at 217 lb. really noticing the impact of dropping weight on the slight hill i hit. Split time Lap time HR Avg HR Notes 1 0:09'58.8 0:09'58.8 125 147 2 0:20'18.4 0:10'19.6 128 132 3 0:29'43.6 0:09'25.2 143 141 4 0:39'39.8 0:09'56.2 133 138 5 0:49'11.6 0:09'31.8 137 141 6 0:58'50.2 0:09'38.6 145 136 7 1:09'04.2 0:10'14 143 139 8 1:19'43.6 0:10'39.4 144 140 9 1:29'09.9 0:09'26.3 143 147 10 1:39'19.3 0:10'09.4 145 146 11 1:48'27.5 0:09'08.2 144 146 12 1:58'05.3 0:09'37.8 141 145 13 2:08'03.3 0:09'58 159 145 14 2:18'31 0:10'27.7 143 149 15 2:28'39.4 0:10'08.4 149 152 16 2:38'40.9 0:10'01.5 143 148 17 2:48'59.1 0:10'18.2 150 149 18 2:58'56.7 0:09'57.6 156 148

How ya feelin' as you head into T-4 weeks? That HR drift is a B. I wish I could be more linear, but I always drift.

Way under trained. I have a 6 hr run on tap in the next three days which should be fun.

 

[gruecd]

Like gruecd pointed out above, these calculators assume you're training for the full with a similar relative intensity/volume to what you trained for your half. When you PRed the half, you probably trained pretty hard for it -- you weren't training "just to finish." Therein lies the problem for first-time marathoners. Most novice marathon training programs are really just designed to get you across the finish line. They're not comparable to "PR your next half-mary" programs. Sure, they have a lot more miles, but they're light relative to the step up in distance.

If your overall endurance level is high enough that you can jump right into something like 18/55 for your first full, then you can probably get pretty close to your McMillan projected time. But if you're doing something more like Higdon's novice program, those calculations are just setting you up for disappointment on race day.

Well stated.And for the record, I'm not saying that he should attempt the sub-3:40 marathon, just that there's a real chance that he could do it. I did my first marathon just to finish, thinking it was just something to cross off the bucket list. Ended up running 3:45:41 and feeling great, and here I am 16 marathons later.

Honestly, my best advice for a first-timer is to run the first 20 miles nice and easy. If you've got something left in the tank, then "race" the last 10K. I can't tell you how good it feels to be the guy passing people at the end of a race. As I'm sure the other guys can attest, it's much better than the alternative!

So what pace do you run your first 20 at?????

I'm not exactly a first-timer, so I'm running even splits all the way through, or if it's a tactical course like Boston or New York, I've got pre-determined mile-by-mile targets.

 

[tri-man 47]

eta:

...and I saw the socks and thought of you.