Ran a 10k in June (8 Viewers)

[tri-man 47]

If I were to run and stay in my target heart rate I would be running a mile time that I am unhappy with. Does anyone else have this issue or should I just run in a higher heart rate zone

Are you confident about the HR target (or is it too low)? Does "unhappy" mean ridiculously, uncomfortably slow, or just disappointing because you know you can feel relaxed at a faster pace? The long, slow runs at a targeted HR can be rather dull and boring. I feel like wearing a shirt that says "I'm running slow because this is HR training." But those runs are about trusting the process ...those runs are all about the heart.

 

[BassNBrew]

If I were to run and stay in my target heart rate I would be running a mile time that I am unhappy with. Does anyone else have this issue or should I just run in a higher heart rate zone

Yup...most of us here have that issue. Take Gru for example...knocked out 6x during a recent run and then runs in the 8x range the next day. He's running 30% slower. He's doing that for a reason and so should you.

 

[pmbrown_22]

Had a pretty killer run at lunch.

Decided that I was going to kind of do a Tempo run for 4 miles and then finish with 5 at whatever pace. The last 5 was up into the hills, so I did not want try and do my speed up the inclines. First 4 miles were at 7:14, 7:22, 7:11, and 7:10. I was downright giddy after this. I have not run this fast in quite some time. The last 5 miles went by pretty good. I averaged a little over 8 for the entire set so it was a pretty good workout. Best thing is that I could have easily done 5 more miles had I wanted to as the weather was great and I felt pretty good. 5 or 6 recovery miles tomorrow and then 18 again on Sunday. That is the plan anyway. Hopefully, the little guy can help me out a bit and get me some sleep.

Have a great weekend all.

 

[IvanKaramazov]

So a colleague stops by my office this morning to talk about his current running plans. He starts off with "My goal is crack 16 minutes in the 5K, so I need to do a little better than 5:00-flat . . . "

I hate him.

 

[2Young2BBald]

2Y2BB: Also a great workout. I typically, likely do too many yards and not enough speed, but I prefer those workouts as I'm typically just working towards a distance, not a time. Your gains in the water suggest you are doing something right. What about having a Cornhole where we all fly in somewhere with a good pool, and have Sand give us personal training by day, and we party by night. Mini Chad would likely be needed for the evening activity.

If you guys aren't busy, I am heading out to Idaho (2) weeks from yesterday to see him for some liver pickling. Lets make this happen I think the distance swim versus speed is a comfort thing for me. No matter how much I swim, I'll still have it my head that I am new at this and need to keep reminding myself I can go the distance. Plus, I hate the way I feel doing those speed repeats on the number thingys.

 

[Sand]

2Y2BB: Also a great workout. I typically, likely do too many yards and not enough speed, but I prefer those workouts as I'm typically just working towards a distance, not a time. Your gains in the water suggest you are doing something right. What about having a Cornhole where we all fly in somewhere with a good pool, and have Sand give us personal training by day, and we party by night. Mini Chad would likely be needed for the evening activity.

Talk about the blind leading the blind...

Plus, I hate the way I feel doing those speed repeats on the number thingys.

Yeah, GB, you're not supposed to like them. "Likeability" and "what makes you faster" are pretty much an inverse relationship.

 

[tri-man 47]

Hopefully, the little guy can help me out a bit and get me some sleep.

For the casual reader: pmb and his wife recently had a new baby boy. HTH(In case that's not the "little guy" you think he's talking about)

 

[Juxtatarot]

If I were to run and stay in my target heart rate I would be running a mile time that I am unhappy with. Does anyone else have this issue or should I just run in a higher heart rate zone

Are you confident about the HR target (or is it too low)? Does "unhappy" mean ridiculously, uncomfortably slow, or just disappointing because you know you can feel relaxed at a faster pace? The long, slow runs at a targeted HR can be rather dull and boring. I feel like wearing a shirt that says "I'm running slow because this is HR training." But those runs are about trusting the process ...those runs are all about the heart.

I'm doing one of the Pfitz plans and focusing on HR for the first time. I'm having similar feelings as Acer. Anyone know why the runs called "general aerobic runs" are done at a lower HR than the long runs? With my heart rate calculations, I'm supposed to be doing these general aerobics with HRs in the 130s while my long runs can be in the 140s. The Advanced Marathoning book doesn't really explain why. I feel much more comfortable running in the low 140s.

 

[AcerFC]

If I were to run and stay in my target heart rate I would be running a mile time that I am unhappy with. Does anyone else have this issue or should I just run in a higher heart rate zone

Are you confident about the HR target (or is it too low)? Does "unhappy" mean ridiculously, uncomfortably slow, or just disappointing because you know you can feel relaxed at a faster pace? The long, slow runs at a targeted HR can be rather dull and boring. I feel like wearing a shirt that says "I'm running slow because this is HR training." But those runs are about trusting the process ...those runs are all about the heart.

I used a calculator and it says I should be between 137 and 158. I find when I run between that zone, I am just going too slow. I am running about an 11:25 pace at that rate. I am more then comfortable running between 168-180 and running around a 9 minute mile. How often should a person run a HR training vs some other form of training. And thanks for your answer

If I were to run and stay in my target heart rate I would be running a mile time that I am unhappy with. Does anyone else have this issue or should I just run in a higher heart rate zone

Yup...most of us here have that issue. Take Gru for example...knocked out 6x during a recent run and then runs in the 8x range the next day. He's running 30% slower. He's doing that for a reason and so should you.

Can you tell me what the reason is

 

[jb1020]

If I were to run and stay in my target heart rate I would be running a mile time that I am unhappy with. Does anyone else have this issue or should I just run in a higher heart rate zone

Are you confident about the HR target (or is it too low)? Does "unhappy" mean ridiculously, uncomfortably slow, or just disappointing because you know you can feel relaxed at a faster pace? The long, slow runs at a targeted HR can be rather dull and boring. I feel like wearing a shirt that says "I'm running slow because this is HR training." But those runs are about trusting the process ...those runs are all about the heart.

I used a calculator and it says I should be between 137 and 158. I find when I run between that zone, I am just going too slow. I am running about an 11:25 pace at that rate. I am more then comfortable running between 168-180 and running around a 9 minute mile. How often should a person run a HR training vs some other form of training. And thanks for your answer

If I were to run and stay in my target heart rate I would be running a mile time that I am unhappy with. Does anyone else have this issue or should I just run in a higher heart rate zone

Yup...most of us here have that issue. Take Gru for example...knocked out 6x during a recent run and then runs in the 8x range the next day. He's running 30% slower. He's doing that for a reason and so should you.

Can you tell me what the reason is

The others here can give you a better answer than me, but my answer might be simpler...you can't always run hard. You'll risk injury and you won't be able to build a base like you need. I had this same question many pages back. I had just run a Half with a pace of 9 minute miles. I couldn't wrap my mind around if I could run I minute miles for 13 miles why on earth did my long runs need to be nearly 11 minutes. I also used to struggle with running on back to back days. That's not an issue anymore.

 

[gruecd]

Can you tell me what the reason is

In a nutshell? Different physiological responses occur at different paces.And Acer, please read this book. Even if you don't plan on following the training plans, the book does an excellent job of explaining the principals of proper training.

 

[Ned]

If I were to run and stay in my target heart rate I would be running a mile time that I am unhappy with. Does anyone else have this issue or should I just run in a higher heart rate zone

Are you confident about the HR target (or is it too low)? Does "unhappy" mean ridiculously, uncomfortably slow, or just disappointing because you know you can feel relaxed at a faster pace? The long, slow runs at a targeted HR can be rather dull and boring. I feel like wearing a shirt that says "I'm running slow because this is HR training." But those runs are about trusting the process ...those runs are all about the heart.

I'm doing one of the Pfitz plans and focusing on HR for the first time. I'm having similar feelings as Acer. Anyone know why the runs called "general aerobic runs" are done at a lower HR than the long runs? With my heart rate calculations, I'm supposed to be doing these general aerobics with HRs in the 130s while my long runs can be in the 140s. The Advanced Marathoning book doesn't really explain why. I feel much more comfortable running in the low 140s.

Are you sure you have those calculated right? There is quite a bit of overlap between the two. GA = 70-81% of max HR. Long and MLR = 74-84%. What's your max HR?GA runs are intended to be an aerobic only exercise where you keep the HR in a range that's best suited for that training. Long or MLR should be first run at the lower end of the range and pushed closer the the higher end towards the end of the run. The first part is going to be more like a GA run where the end of the run is creeping up on marathon pacing (but not quite). I believe you're supposed to be finishing your long/MLR at around 10% slower than MP.

 

[Ned]

If I were to run and stay in my target heart rate I would be running a mile time that I am unhappy with. Does anyone else have this issue or should I just run in a higher heart rate zone

Are you confident about the HR target (or is it too low)? Does "unhappy" mean ridiculously, uncomfortably slow, or just disappointing because you know you can feel relaxed at a faster pace? The long, slow runs at a targeted HR can be rather dull and boring. I feel like wearing a shirt that says "I'm running slow because this is HR training." But those runs are about trusting the process ...those runs are all about the heart.

I used a calculator and it says I should be between 137 and 158. I find when I run between that zone, I am just going too slow. I am running about an 11:25 pace at that rate. I am more then comfortable running between 168-180 and running around a 9 minute mile. How often should a person run a HR training vs some other form of training. And thanks for your answer

If I were to run and stay in my target heart rate I would be running a mile time that I am unhappy with. Does anyone else have this issue or should I just run in a higher heart rate zone

Yup...most of us here have that issue. Take Gru for example...knocked out 6x during a recent run and then runs in the 8x range the next day. He's running 30% slower. He's doing that for a reason and so should you.

Can you tell me what the reason is

I agree with grue 150%. Get the book. It's worth 500x the price. The short answer though is....There's four Basic runs - recovery, tempo, intervals, long. Each one has a specific purpose. Recovery is meant to help rebuild your system while increasing volume, tempo is for improving your pace at lactic threshold, intervals is for speed work or VO2 max, and long runs are for endurance.You'll usually do one or two workouts and then a recovery run and a rest day or second recovery run. Rinse repeat.

 

[Juxtatarot]

If I were to run and stay in my target heart rate I would be running a mile time that I am unhappy with. Does anyone else have this issue or should I just run in a higher heart rate zone

Are you confident about the HR target (or is it too low)? Does "unhappy" mean ridiculously, uncomfortably slow, or just disappointing because you know you can feel relaxed at a faster pace? The long, slow runs at a targeted HR can be rather dull and boring. I feel like wearing a shirt that says "I'm running slow because this is HR training." But those runs are about trusting the process ...those runs are all about the heart.

I'm doing one of the Pfitz plans and focusing on HR for the first time. I'm having similar feelings as Acer. Anyone know why the runs called "general aerobic runs" are done at a lower HR than the long runs? With my heart rate calculations, I'm supposed to be doing these general aerobics with HRs in the 130s while my long runs can be in the 140s. The Advanced Marathoning book doesn't really explain why. I feel much more comfortable running in the low 140s.

Are you sure you have those calculated right? There is quite a bit of overlap between the two. GA = 70-81% of max HR. Long and MLR = 74-84%. What's your max HR?GA runs are intended to be an aerobic only exercise where you keep the HR in a range that's best suited for that training. Long or MLR should be first run at the lower end of the range and pushed closer the the higher end towards the end of the run. The first part is going to be more like a GA run where the end of the run is creeping up on marathon pacing (but not quite). I believe you're supposed to be finishing your long/MLR at around 10% slower than MP.

Thank you. I estimated my max HR at 185 (I think) and my resting is about 45. I'll double check my calculations when I get home. I know the range for a GA is much narrower than the other runs - that's part of my issue, probably. So I'm supposed to increase pace during the long runs to get near the upper HR range? That would be weird as I might need to run marathon pace time to get it that high. I thought the wider range was meant to allow for a creeping HR during the long runs.Edit: Wait. I calculated HR zone off of HR reserves, not off the max. And I recall the GA range being really narrow. I don't have the book here at work. Maybe I messed this up.

 

[Ned]

If I were to run and stay in my target heart rate I would be running a mile time that I am unhappy with. Does anyone else have this issue or should I just run in a higher heart rate zone

Are you confident about the HR target (or is it too low)? Does "unhappy" mean ridiculously, uncomfortably slow, or just disappointing because you know you can feel relaxed at a faster pace? The long, slow runs at a targeted HR can be rather dull and boring. I feel like wearing a shirt that says "I'm running slow because this is HR training." But those runs are about trusting the process ...those runs are all about the heart.

I'm doing one of the Pfitz plans and focusing on HR for the first time. I'm having similar feelings as Acer. Anyone know why the runs called "general aerobic runs" are done at a lower HR than the long runs? With my heart rate calculations, I'm supposed to be doing these general aerobics with HRs in the 130s while my long runs can be in the 140s. The Advanced Marathoning book doesn't really explain why. I feel much more comfortable running in the low 140s.

Are you sure you have those calculated right? There is quite a bit of overlap between the two. GA = 70-81% of max HR. Long and MLR = 74-84%. What's your max HR?GA runs are intended to be an aerobic only exercise where you keep the HR in a range that's best suited for that training. Long or MLR should be first run at the lower end of the range and pushed closer the the higher end towards the end of the run. The first part is going to be more like a GA run where the end of the run is creeping up on marathon pacing (but not quite). I believe you're supposed to be finishing your long/MLR at around 10% slower than MP.

Thank you. I estimated my max HR at 185 (I think) and my resting is about 45. I'll double check my calculations when I get home. I know the range for a GA is much narrower than the other runs - that's part of my issue, probably. So I'm supposed to increase pace during the long runs to get near the upper HR range? That would be weird as I might need to run marathon pace time to get it that high. I thought the wider range was meant to allow for a creeping HR during the long runs.Edit: Wait. I calculated HR zone off of HR reserves, not off the max. And I recall the GA range being really narrow. I don't have the book here at work. Maybe I messed this up.

The book has both HRR and HR max. I don't trust my resting HR enough to use it so I just use max. I think your issue might be that you're estimating your max. If you're at marathon pace to get to the end of your long run HR range than your estimated max might be too high. I don't have the book handy, but found this on his site - My link

The first few miles of your long runs can be done slowly, but by 5 miles into your long run, your pace should be no slower than 20 percent slower than marathon race pace. Then gradually increase your pace until you’re running approximately 10 percent slower than marathon race pace during the last 5 miles of your long runs. This makes for an excellent workout and provides a strong stimulus for physiological adaptations such as increased glycogen storage. In terms of heart rate, you would run the first few miles at the low end of the recommended intensity range, and gradually increase your effort until you reach the high end of the range during the last few miles. These workouts are difficult enough that you should schedule a recovery day the day before, and one or two days after your long runs.

 

[Juxtatarot]

The first few miles of your long runs can be done slowly, but by 5 miles into your long run, your pace should be no slower than 20 percent slower than marathon race pace. Then gradually increase your pace until you’re running approximately 10 percent slower than marathon race pace during the last 5 miles of your long runs. This makes for an excellent workout and provides a strong stimulus for physiological adaptations such as increased glycogen storage. In terms of heart rate, you would run the first few miles at the low end of the recommended intensity range, and gradually increase your effort until you reach the high end of the range during the last few miles. These workouts are difficult enough that you should schedule a recovery day the day before, and one or two days after your long runs.

Hmmm, that sounds familiar. I think I've read that before. Everything is clearer to me now.The whole HR thing is strange to me, though. To keep my HR under 140 I have to run near 9:00 miles and to get it up to the mid 160s, I'm running about 7:00. It's such a big difference for only 25 beats.

 

[AcerFC]

Thanks guys. Much appreciated and I'll check out the book.

 

[AcerFC]

Can you tell me what the reason is

In a nutshell? Different physiological responses occur at different paces.And Acer, please read this book. Even if you don't plan on following the training plans, the book does an excellent job of explaining the principals of proper training.

OK, just bought the book and read the preface. I assume everything they are talking about is for non marathoners also. I may decide to try another marathon one day but I'm not planning on one right now. Right now I'm just getting back into it with 3-5 milers.

 

[2Young2BBald]

I need some help thinking through how to get my son in to running, without having him burn out on it. My daughter and I have piqued his interest in running cross country when he enters high school in the fall. He is planning on running track for his middle school in the spring of this year, so he'll somewhat get in to running already. Although, I think they'll peg him for short sprint distance. Most of his interest seems to be stemming from a desire to trail run based on how much fun I have doing it (or it might just be that he wants a cool pair of trail runners). I would LOVE for him to take this up so we could run together. So, I am thinking of printing a couple of couch to 5K plans for him to start out, thinking he'll trust this more than anything I have to say. Once he gets to where he can run a 5K, I thought I'd get him out on the trails. He and I share the same shoe size, for now and he really likes a pair of Asisc Gel Nimbus that I wore for, maybe, 40 miles before I scrapped them and switched to Brooks. so he has a good shoe to start with. Being a gear-ho, I have a couple of pairs of trail shoes he could use as well. I have a tendency to over coach my kids, so I want to be careful here to make sure I don't turn him off to the whole thing. His math teacher, who he seems to like, is the assistant CC coach at the high school. I have told my son to talk to him about CC, thinking that if encouragement is coming from someone else, it'll help as well.

My son is an Xbox loving natural athlete, with a short (typical 13 year old) attention span. With this in mind and the info above, what other thoughts or resources should I be thinking about to give him the best look at running? My daughter chose running, basically, on her own. I am sure my wife and I role modeled a bit. With my son, if he is not sold on something right away, he can lose interest real quick. Long term, I dream of running something like the Disney 1/2 with my wife and both kids, so I don't want to screw this up. TIA for any thoughts here!!!!

 

[sho nuff]

2y2b...not much advice here as my son is only 7. He is taking an interest, but talk about a short attention span.

I think so far what you are doing seems like about as good of advice I could give. He is getting into track...and Id definitely try to get him talking to the math teacher he seems to like.

Other than getting him to run with you from time to time...not much else I can offer.

Good luck.

On my end, finished out a 32 mile week with 14 this morning.

First 4 outside...then a little thunder and a downpour brought me inside for 10 (yuck) on the treadmill.

I don't think the weather got all that bad after about 10 minutes I should have headed back out...but oh well.

I pushed through it.

Legs feel great even after I managed to keep it down about 10 min/mile outside and from 10-10:11 on the TM.

Now time for back to back birthday parties with 4 year olds (inflatable place)...my kids should sleep well tonight too.

 

[tri-man 47]

I need some help thinking through how to get my son in to running, without having him burn out on it. My daughter and I have piqued his interest in running cross country when he enters high school in the fall. He is planning on running track for his middle school in the spring of this year, so he'll somewhat get in to running already. Although, I think they'll peg him for short sprint distance. Most of his interest seems to be stemming from a desire to trail run based on how much fun I have doing it (or it might just be that he wants a cool pair of trail runners). I would LOVE for him to take this up so we could run together. So, I am thinking of printing a couple of couch to 5K plans for him to start out, thinking he'll trust this more than anything I have to say. Once he gets to where he can run a 5K, I thought I'd get him out on the trails. He and I share the same shoe size, for now and he really likes a pair of Asisc Gel Nimbus that I wore for, maybe, 40 miles before I scrapped them and switched to Brooks. so he has a good shoe to start with. Being a gear-ho, I have a couple of pairs of trail shoes he could use as well. I have a tendency to over coach my kids, so I want to be careful here to make sure I don't turn him off to the whole thing. His math teacher, who he seems to like, is the assistant CC coach at the high school. I have told my son to talk to him about CC, thinking that if encouragement is coming from someone else, it'll help as well. My son is an Xbox loving natural athlete, with a short (typical 13 year old) attention span. With this in mind and the info above, what other thoughts or resources should I be thinking about to give him the best look at running? My daughter chose running, basically, on her own. I am sure my wife and I role modeled a bit. With my son, if he is not sold on something right away, he can lose interest real quick. Long term, I dream of running something like the Disney 1/2 with my wife and both kids, so I don't want to screw this up. TIA for any thoughts here!!!!

Tri relay? You could swim, T could bike, and R could run. M could coach the team! That way, he becomes part of something bigger than just his own training. Could you find a sprint relay in August?

 

[Ned]

I need some help thinking through how to get my son in to running, without having him burn out on it. My daughter and I have piqued his interest in running cross country when he enters high school in the fall. He is planning on running track for his middle school in the spring of this year, so he'll somewhat get in to running already. Although, I think they'll peg him for short sprint distance. Most of his interest seems to be stemming from a desire to trail run based on how much fun I have doing it (or it might just be that he wants a cool pair of trail runners). I would LOVE for him to take this up so we could run together. So, I am thinking of printing a couple of couch to 5K plans for him to start out, thinking he'll trust this more than anything I have to say. Once he gets to where he can run a 5K, I thought I'd get him out on the trails. He and I share the same shoe size, for now and he really likes a pair of Asisc Gel Nimbus that I wore for, maybe, 40 miles before I scrapped them and switched to Brooks. so he has a good shoe to start with. Being a gear-ho, I have a couple of pairs of trail shoes he could use as well. I have a tendency to over coach my kids, so I want to be careful here to make sure I don't turn him off to the whole thing. His math teacher, who he seems to like, is the assistant CC coach at the high school. I have told my son to talk to him about CC, thinking that if encouragement is coming from someone else, it'll help as well. My son is an Xbox loving natural athlete, with a short (typical 13 year old) attention span. With this in mind and the info above, what other thoughts or resources should I be thinking about to give him the best look at running? My daughter chose running, basically, on her own. I am sure my wife and I role modeled a bit. With my son, if he is not sold on something right away, he can lose interest real quick. Long term, I dream of running something like the Disney 1/2 with my wife and both kids, so I don't want to screw this up. TIA for any thoughts here!!!!

My boys are just 3 and 5 so I wish I had some real life experience to lend, but I'm rooting for you guys. I too dream of the day where the four of us are running races as a family. I will say I'm a believer in letting the kids decide their own fate without much pressure from us. Whatever they choose, as long as its legal and safe, is cool with me and I will back them 150%.

 

[2Young2BBald]

I need some help thinking through how to get my son in to running, without having him burn out on it. My daughter and I have piqued his interest in running cross country when he enters high school in the fall. He is planning on running track for his middle school in the spring of this year, so he'll somewhat get in to running already. Although, I think they'll peg him for short sprint distance. Most of his interest seems to be stemming from a desire to trail run based on how much fun I have doing it (or it might just be that he wants a cool pair of trail runners). I would LOVE for him to take this up so we could run together. So, I am thinking of printing a couple of couch to 5K plans for him to start out, thinking he'll trust this more than anything I have to say. Once he gets to where he can run a 5K, I thought I'd get him out on the trails. He and I share the same shoe size, for now and he really likes a pair of Asisc Gel Nimbus that I wore for, maybe, 40 miles before I scrapped them and switched to Brooks. so he has a good shoe to start with. Being a gear-ho, I have a couple of pairs of trail shoes he could use as well. I have a tendency to over coach my kids, so I want to be careful here to make sure I don't turn him off to the whole thing. His math teacher, who he seems to like, is the assistant CC coach at the high school. I have told my son to talk to him about CC, thinking that if encouragement is coming from someone else, it'll help as well. My son is an Xbox loving natural athlete, with a short (typical 13 year old) attention span. With this in mind and the info above, what other thoughts or resources should I be thinking about to give him the best look at running? My daughter chose running, basically, on her own. I am sure my wife and I role modeled a bit. With my son, if he is not sold on something right away, he can lose interest real quick. Long term, I dream of running something like the Disney 1/2 with my wife and both kids, so I don't want to screw this up. TIA for any thoughts here!!!!

Tri relay? You could swim, T could bike, and R could run. M could coach the team! That way, he becomes part of something bigger than just his own training. Could you find a sprint relay in August?

Not a bad idea!!! There is a Sprint Tri/Du in June that we've done the past few years. T Did the short run and bike leg and a girlfriend of hers did the 5K at the end. Pete has done it too & plans on having his daughter do the event this year. If R digs running enough, maybe I could get him to do the whole sprint Du. He is almost as tall and I am now, so I could fit him to my road bike. Thanks for the thought!!!

 

[tri-man 47]

Hope it works out, 2Young! Would your boy feel less intimidated if mom took him out for some runs? It's no surprise the kids pick up your interests since you're so darn enthusiastic about, well, life.

A 20 mile recovery week for me - just three runs (4, 6, 10). I've had a sore butt muscle and some foot pain (plantar faciitis type, so I wanted to be cautious this week and it seems to have paid off). Still some good training, though. End of the 6 miler had 4 qtr-mile long striders (one step per city block). Heart of today's 10 miler were 3 1/2 miles of repeats back and forth over a large urban overpass. Focused training starts next week. Up first: some interval work.

 

[Ned]

A quiet, but solid week overall - 40 miles. Not much to comment on. Just pluggin' away right now.

Tue - 5mi recovery with focusing on slowing it down. Didn't feel that great, but I've had worse. 9:52/143

Wed - 10mi GA. Felt sluggish today after getting a massage on Tues night. Probably not the smartest idea to run 10 right after a massage. 9:20/155

Thurs - 5mi recovery and felt pretty good. Legs had more pop to them. 9:43/142

Sat - 15mi run. I usually do my LRs on Sunday's, but had a planned night out in Baltimore to celebrate my BIL's 30th bday. Felt off the whole time, but I got the mileage in at a comfortable pace. 9:43/156 Side note - Fogo de Chao is a MUST for any steak lover.

Sun - I left today wide open as I expected to be hung over today. I decided to head out for a 5mi recovery/detox run. All things considered from last night's debauchery, I felt pretty good. 9:49/146

GO PATS!

 

[Sand]

Greetings all.

This turned out to be a pretty laid back week. Was under the weather for a couple days, so didn't get in everything I wanted. Did get in about 30 miles of riding, 23 or so running miles, and 6k in the pool. Missed two swim days - bah.

Back at it next week.

 

[BassNBrew]

Ran my first marathon this morning, Surf City in Huntington Beach, CA. Goal was under four hours, finished in 3:58. Last five miles were brutally painful, but at some point had a little epiphany that I just had to be patient. Let the minutes tick by and the legs will do the work. The pain seemed to fade into some distant part of my mind after that.Picturesque Southern California day, with the women and the waves, made the scenery fantastic. I'm really sore and really happy. Will not be my last marathon. I can see how you guys can get hooked on this ####.

Congrats on busting your goal.

 

[pmbrown_22]

Congrats bananafish. Way to finish (Goal A) and beat your estimate.

2YBB: My only suggestion on getting your son involved is to just let him run what he wants to run. If he is enthusiastic about the trails, then why not let him start on the trails. If I remember from my XCountry days, most of it was off road anyway so he gets a bit of a head start. Maybe it gets him a chance to get his feet wet and then get hooked on the whole running thing. If he gets hooked and does do XCountry, then he will get plenty of road work in through practice and all of that. I am sure there are trails around you that would not be so difficult for a beginner. That way you can take him out on some easy runs and then expand from there.

I like what Tri said about going out and running with someone else besides you. I know I will have the same problem with one of my sons and that I will turn him away if I get too involved. Maybe your daughter can take him out and see how it goes from there. I want badly to run with my kids as well, but I think the biggest hurdle is getting them hooked into it and then apply the challenges.

--------------------

All and all, a good weekend for me. I did 5 recovery on Saturday and was feeling pretty good. Had to take the first shift for the little guy (Max) and stayed up 'til 1AM on Saturday night. I don't usually stay up past 10 on most weekends so this was a bit of a shock to the system.

Woke up on Sunday feeling pretty beat, but still managed to get my run of 18 in in the wonderful high 40's we were having yesterday. I was supposed to do 10 of those 18 at MP, but I just could not get them going. I did put in strong effort for those and got in around 8/mile for those 10. I was feeling tired, but strong if that makes any sense, but just could not go faster. I am thinking at this point, unless something strange happens, this is going to be my MP for here on out. It just makes sense to me and I am pretty used to that pace and no problems hitting it consistantly.

Finished up the 18 averaging 8:22 per. Overall it was a good run and I was feeling really strong at the end. I could have gone more if I needed too. That is always a good feeling.

Have a great day all.

 

[jb1020]

Congrats Bfish. You made it sound a little too easy though.

Another successful week for me.

Higdon Week 14 - Intermediate 1

Mon: 5 @ 10:25 HR 135

Tues: 5 @ 10:36 HR 131

Wed: 5 @ 10:36 HR 139 (identical to Tues, but higher HR?)

Fri: 8 @ 10:20 HR 137

Sat: 12 @ 10:45 HR 134

This past week was a relatively easy week. Upcoming week is the peak of the training.

 

[comfortably numb]

Thanks for the supportive words.

Last week, I only got to run at gym on treadmill on Thursday.

Did 5k, in about 33min

Then Saturday I went for my 5k trail run.

Was awesome.

Very hilly, water, ankle twisting, jumping over tree trunks, plopping in mud, uphill/downhill dodging tree branches.

Only 38 people did the 5k.

I came in 12th at 34min and change basically.

Had a really good time.

My cousin ran with me, he has run a lot more than me.

He took off flying at the start, waving me to hurry up, I kept my slow steady pace, and and 6 min later i come passing him by.

I am not ready to teabag or sandbag anything yet.

I want to keep finishing races without much stopping for the 1st few to build my confidence.

Being time is hard for me to juggle to get out and run with kids, and different work schedules with wife, I have a hard time getting more runs in.

In Ned's words.

"How bad do you want it"

So I mapped out a 5k course here at work on our property.

I should be able to come in at 5:30ish, and get some runs in before everyone gets in.

 

[Sand]

I am not ready to sandbag anything yet.

 

[Ned]

banana - big time congrats. 3:58 for your first is a killer time!

jb - I wouldn't read too much into that single day's workout. Too many variables to really guess, but I'd chalk it up to not being 100% recovered.

cn - "So I mapped out a 5k course here at work on our property. I should be able to come in at 5:30ish, and get some runs in before everyone gets in. "

Sand - Give him time. He'll SandTM one sooner or later.

 

[Ned]

Bourbon chasers - did you guys do any sort of training to prepare for the back to back racing you were doing? It might not be exactly the same, but since I'm doing this triple crown I'm thinking I need to prepare my mind and body for the back to back racing. The longest break I'll probably have on race day is 30ish minutes. Right now I'm planning on doing a few long runs where I do a sort of 'brick' workout. Run a 10mi run, take a break for 30 minutes, eat a banana or something (trying to simulate what I'd do at race day), and then head back out for another 5mi GA type of run.

The races are in descending order, distance wise - 13.1, 6.2, 3.1. So each run is going to be faster. I'm thinking these 'bricks' need to mimic this as well, but not to the point where I'm hammering true race paces. This is all new territory for me, so I may be over thinking it.

 

[pmbrown_22]

Bourbon chasers - did you guys do any sort of training to prepare for the back to back racing you were doing? It might not be exactly the same, but since I'm doing this triple crown I'm thinking I need to prepare my mind and body for the back to back racing. The longest break I'll probably have on race day is 30ish minutes. Right now I'm planning on doing a few long runs where I do a sort of 'brick' workout. Run a 10mi run, take a break for 30 minutes, eat a banana or something (trying to simulate what I'd do at race day), and then head back out for another 5mi GA type of run.The races are in descending order, distance wise - 13.1, 6.2, 3.1. So each run is going to be faster. I'm thinking these 'bricks' need to mimic this as well, but not to the point where I'm hammering true race paces. This is all new territory for me, so I may be over thinking it.

I think the brick thing will work well for you. I did not do too much other than get a couple of double workouts in for one day. We had like 8 hours in between runs so that was easy enough to simulate. I think the biggest thing for you is to make sure you stay loose in between your runs. You definitely don't want to tighten up as it will take that much longer to get loose as the day wears on.

 

[Juxtatarot]

Ned - I realized I did have a stupid math error in calculating HR ranges for GA runs. I can now run them about 10 beats faster, so in the 140s. Thanks for directing me down that path.

 

[tri-man 47]

b-fish, c-numb - Great job guys!

pmb - way to be tough and get in your 18 miler.

Ned - While we had long time gaps in the Bourbon Chase, the Dances With Dirt trail relay I've done the last two years with 2Young and friends has much shorter breaks (this past year, one of my breaks was just 30 minutes). It works out OK. As long as the first leg is something less than 100% effort and you accept the fact that subsequent legs might be 90% effort at best, the legs actually go surprisingly well. You just get in the mindset of running, running, running and you do it.

 

[gruecd]

bananafish - Congrats on a solid debut!

Ned/jb - Nice weeks!

pmb - Great job on the 18!

----------

I had a decent week, highlighted by the 8/4T on Thursday. I was planning on doing 17/8MP over the weekend, but apparently I pulled my stoooopid SI joint out of alignment again, so I went and got it adjusted back into position and settled for a relatively hard 10-miler (7:36/mile) instead. ETA: I'm now convinced more than ever that treadmills are evil, evil machines. Not only are they boring as hell, but every time I run on those stupid things, I get injured.

No long run this coming weekend (racing a 15K), and since I didn't run long this past weekend, either, I think I'm gonna get up early tomorrow and try to knock out 17 before work. I'd love to break an hour on the 15K, but that means 6:27 pace. My marathon time from last fall would suggest that I could do it, but my half marathon time from Houston says otherwise. Just not sure what kind of shape I'm in right now. Running 1:01 or 1:02 is probably more realistic, but I'll probably give the sub-60 a shot and risk the crash-and-burn.

Hope you all have a great week!

 

[sho nuff]

Congrats B-fish...great run.

My last week

M - 7X1000m @10k pace...with little recovery in between...total about 6 miles.

T - some light weight and core work

W - 8 miles total (5 @ 8:45/mile 3 @10:15 I think)

TR- 4 miles at 10:45 AVG

S - 14 miles at 10:11

32 total

Today started with a little warmup then 2 @ 10k, 2X1 mile repeats at 5k, 2X.5 @just under 5k with recovery in between and about a half mile cool down.

Total 7 miles.

Really liking these monday interval work and repeats.

 

[BassNBrew]

What I lcacked in quantity this wekend, I made up for in quality.

Sat: 6 mile trail run. 3 miles, 1100 ft up and then back down.

Sun: 8 mile road run. 4 miles, 1955 ft up and then back down. Mile 2 was the toughest and featured 700 ft of climbing. Did manage to hold a sub 15 min pace on the run shuffle up. Actually very happy that I didn't walk any of this. You would think that you could fly back down, but 20-30% grades are just too steep (at least at my weight) to cut loose. I had to resort to shuffle mode and lean back like I was in a recliner. Did manage to go sub 8 on the last mile. I'm a little sore in the legs, but the back took the brunt of it.

Anyone have any advice on running downhills? Should I be emphasizing tunrover or stride length. I messed with both on the way back down yesterday.

 

[Sand]

What I lcacked in quantity this wekend, I made up for in quality.

Sat: 6 mile trail run. 3 miles, 1100 ft up and then back down.

Sun: 8 mile road run. 4 miles, 1955 ft up and then back down. Mile 2 was the toughest and featured 700 ft of climbing. Did manage to hold a sub 15 min pace on the run shuffle up. Actually very happy that I didn't walk any of this. You would think that you could fly back down, but 20-30% grades are just too steep (at least at my weight) to cut loose. I had to resort to shuffle mode and lean back like I was in a recliner. Did manage to go sub 8 on the last mile. I'm a little sore in the legs, but the back took the brunt of it.

Anyone have any advice on running downhills? Should I be emphasizing tunrover or stride length. I messed with both on the way back down yesterday.

A 13% average mile? Where is this?

 

[gruecd]

600 pages! Wow!!

 

[tri-man 47]

Anyone have any advice on running downhills? Should I be emphasizing turnover or stride length. I messed with both on the way back down yesterday.

I would say: turnover. A longer stride length means you'll be pounding the heels more, which jars the legs and kills the quads. Instead, I prefer a quicker turnover with some up and down spring to the stride ...trying to land more midsole.

 

[sho nuff]

Supposed to run 8 miles today and I forgot my running shoes. Now I have to wait till I get home and run in the darkness until about 8pm... This is after a massive pizza/beer weekend. Dying to get out there.

Yes...yesterday's consumption definitely put some pep in the step for the run today.BBQ, sausage balls, pizza/sausage roll up things, cookies, hashbrown caserole, cheese dip.And beer of course.

 

[BassNBrew]

What I lcacked in quantity this wekend, I made up for in quality.

Sat: 6 mile trail run. 3 miles, 1100 ft up and then back down.

Sun: 8 mile road run. 4 miles, 1955 ft up and then back down. Mile 2 was the toughest and featured 700 ft of climbing. Did manage to hold a sub 15 min pace on the run shuffle up. Actually very happy that I didn't walk any of this. You would think that you could fly back down, but 20-30% grades are just too steep (at least at my weight) to cut loose. I had to resort to shuffle mode and lean back like I was in a recliner. Did manage to go sub 8 on the last mile. I'm a little sore in the legs, but the back took the brunt of it.

Anyone have any advice on running downhills? Should I be emphasizing tunrover or stride length. I messed with both on the way back down yesterday.

A 13% average mile? Where is this?

Backside of Beech Mt, TN/NC border. There's a substained 20% section over a 1/4 mi peaking out at 28% for roughly 60 yards. We've biked it and it's crippled everyone who has attempted it. Most say no mas. I did get up it once on fresh legs, but my buddy who was pushing his bike passed me. It was actually easier running it than biking.

 

[Ned]

What I lcacked in quantity this wekend, I made up for in quality.

Sat: 6 mile trail run. 3 miles, 1100 ft up and then back down.

Sun: 8 mile road run. 4 miles, 1955 ft up and then back down. Mile 2 was the toughest and featured 700 ft of climbing. Did manage to hold a sub 15 min pace on the run shuffle up. Actually very happy that I didn't walk any of this. You would think that you could fly back down, but 20-30% grades are just too steep (at least at my weight) to cut loose. I had to resort to shuffle mode and lean back like I was in a recliner. Did manage to go sub 8 on the last mile. I'm a little sore in the legs, but the back took the brunt of it.

Anyone have any advice on running downhills? Should I be emphasizing tunrover or stride length. I messed with both on the way back down yesterday.

A 13% average mile? Where is this?

Backside of Beech Mt, TN/NC border. There's a substained 20% section over a 1/4 mi peaking out at 28% for roughly 60 yards. We've biked it and it's crippled everyone who has attempted it. Most say no mas. I did get up it once on fresh legs, but my buddy who was pushing his bike passed me. It was actually easier running it than biking.

you're a nut.

 

[sho nuff]

What I lcacked in quantity this wekend, I made up for in quality.

Sat: 6 mile trail run. 3 miles, 1100 ft up and then back down.

Sun: 8 mile road run. 4 miles, 1955 ft up and then back down. Mile 2 was the toughest and featured 700 ft of climbing. Did manage to hold a sub 15 min pace on the run shuffle up. Actually very happy that I didn't walk any of this. You would think that you could fly back down, but 20-30% grades are just too steep (at least at my weight) to cut loose. I had to resort to shuffle mode and lean back like I was in a recliner. Did manage to go sub 8 on the last mile. I'm a little sore in the legs, but the back took the brunt of it.

Anyone have any advice on running downhills? Should I be emphasizing tunrover or stride length. I messed with both on the way back down yesterday.

A 13% average mile? Where is this?

Backside of Beech Mt, TN/NC border. There's a substained 20% section over a 1/4 mi peaking out at 28% for roughly 60 yards. We've biked it and it's crippled everyone who has attempted it. Most say no mas. I did get up it once on fresh legs, but my buddy who was pushing his bike passed me. It was actually easier running it than biking.

you're a nut.

I have some other words in mind.

 

[Ned]

What I lcacked in quantity this wekend, I made up for in quality.

Sat: 6 mile trail run. 3 miles, 1100 ft up and then back down.

Sun: 8 mile road run. 4 miles, 1955 ft up and then back down. Mile 2 was the toughest and featured 700 ft of climbing. Did manage to hold a sub 15 min pace on the run shuffle up. Actually very happy that I didn't walk any of this. You would think that you could fly back down, but 20-30% grades are just too steep (at least at my weight) to cut loose. I had to resort to shuffle mode and lean back like I was in a recliner. Did manage to go sub 8 on the last mile. I'm a little sore in the legs, but the back took the brunt of it.

Anyone have any advice on running downhills? Should I be emphasizing tunrover or stride length. I messed with both on the way back down yesterday.

A 13% average mile? Where is this?

Backside of Beech Mt, TN/NC border. There's a substained 20% section over a 1/4 mi peaking out at 28% for roughly 60 yards. We've biked it and it's crippled everyone who has attempted it. Most say no mas. I did get up it once on fresh legs, but my buddy who was pushing his bike passed me. It was actually easier running it than biking.

you're a nut.

I have some other words in mind.

My hero?

 

[pmbrown_22]

600 pages! Wow!!

Hard to believe that we can get 600 pages out of the following:- running/not running- biking/not biking- swimming/not swimming- triathlons of all types- marathons, halfs, 5Ks, 10Ks - 200 mile races- 40 mile races up a hill- b-itching about going too fast- b-itching about going too slow- injuries- getting fatter- getting thinner- drinking- fast heart rates- slow heart rates- the sechs in compression gear- oogling young coeds- oogling old women (you know who you are tri-man)- herding cattle- minivan aerobics- yogaThis list seems to be growing faster than I thought it would. No wonder we have such a big thread.Have a great day all.

 

[gruecd]

17 miles done pre-work in the face of blustery NE winds (17 G 21 MPH) and on 4-1/2 hours of sleep. Might be some kind of pre-work mileage record for me. Started slow and picked up the pace towards the end. Averaged 8:08/mile overall, averaged 7:40 on the last 7 miles. Glad it's done. Yoga tonight.

 

[Ned]

17 miles done pre-work in the face of blustery NE winds (17 G 21 MPH) and on 4-1/2 hours of sleep. Might be some kind of pre-work mileage record for me. Started slow and picked up the pace towards the end. Averaged 8:08/mile overall, averaged 7:40 on the last 7 miles. Glad it's done. Yoga tonight.

Wow. What time did you wake up? Your dedication is unmatched, my friend.------On my end I had a pleasant surprise. I came down with a cold just in time to do my first tempo run in a while. I had no expectations going in, but wow that was a solid run. No idea where that came from, but I'll take it. I did the Pfitz 8 with 4 LT and averaged 7:43/174 for the LT miles. Aside from blowing snot everywhere :X , the cold was a non-factor.