Ran a 10k in June (4 Viewers)

[tri-man 47]

I will respectfully disagree with Tri-man on bilateral breathing. In long distance swimming you want as much air as possible - bilateral cuts down on air by a bunch because you're breathing every three cycles instead of two. I would humbly recommend learning to breathe opposite side as a skillset addition. This lets you have an option if the waves are in your face to your regular side and let you sight to the opposite side if you want, etc. I do opposite side breathing typically every practice. Not much, just enough to have it as a "break glass in case of emergency" kind of skill.Lots of folks disagree with me, but I don't think bilateral breathing has a lot of value.

You're the swim expert, so if you're suggesting alternate-side breathing instead of bilateral breathing as a friendly amendment, I'll allow it. However, I use the 'bilateral' breathing concept (3 steps instead of strokes) on my long, slow runs ...I find the slower breathing cycle facilitates fuller exhales and inhales. I do use it a bit on my lake swims to calm myself and modify the rhythm. Anyway. I'd worry about us micromanaging 2Young's swim training, but we're talking about a buddy who measures out 1/4-mile splits for his son's CC races - what comes around, goes around.

BTW, I am super pumped that you are taking on this adventure. Personally, I have never felt as accomplished as I did when I touched sand at the end my first 5k. It is a monumental accomplishment.

THIS.

 

[Ned]

Training Report Week 6 (Recovery Week)

Tues 8 mi w/ 10 X 100 strides. I ran this on the treadmill so substituted 3 quarter mile intervals at 6:00 pace for the strides. I don't remember overall pace.

Wed 12 miles. 7:52/138

Thurs 5 recovery. 8:40. Heart rate data was really high and clearly not functioning correctly. It was quite cold so I wasn't sweating much and was wearing a few layers of tech garb. That probably caused the issues.

Friday Scheduled for 10 miles but Thursday night I got as sick as I ever remember. Some stomach virus, I guess. A lot of :X and , once at the same time! I couldn't even hold water down. Up all night and called off from work. (I'm 42 and this is the first day I've called off sick on any job in my life. Kind of sad the streak is over.) Didn't run this day. By the way, you guys were discussing weight loss a few days ago. For kicks on Friday morning I got on the scale knowing full well that due to dehydration and having nothing is my stomach, I'd weigh less than I have in 20 years. Came in at 132.

Sat Scheduled for 5 recovery but thought I'd test thing out at MLR pace and run the 10 scheduled for Friday if I felt OK. Felt fine at mile 3 and committed to the 10. Started struggling at 8 but made it through. I think I was still dehydrated. 7:54 pace. My heart rate monitor slipped off my chest during mile 1 (due to weight loss?) so I didn't get that data.

Sun 15 miles. Cold this morning so this was on the treadmill. A touch under 8:00 pace. I felt OK.

I ended up short a 5 mile recovery run so I only ran 50 instead of 55 miles. Mondays are my day off. I'm trying to decide if I want to make up the recovery run tomorrow or stick with the day off.

On the plus side, you got sick at a good time being a recovery week and all. 132lbs?!?! How tall are you? No wonder you're so stinkin' fast.

 

[tri-man 47]

Training Report Week 6 (Recovery Week)

Thursday night I got as sick as I ever remember. Some stomach virus, I guess.

Sat Scheduled for 5 recovery but thought I'd test thing out at MLR pace and run the 10 scheduled for Friday if I felt OK. Felt fine at mile 3 and committed to the 10.

Sun 15 miles. Cold this morning so this was on the treadmill. A touch under 8:00 pace. I felt OK.

'cause, yeah, who doesn't pop back-to-back 10 and 15 milers after being super sick?

 

[Juxtatarot]

On the plus side, you got sick at a good time being a recovery week and all. 132lbs?!?! How tall are you? No wonder you're so stinkin' fast.

5'11". I thought my skinniness was already well known around these parts!

 

[Sand]

micromanaging 2Young's swim training,

For the record I'd be completely comfortable micromanaging 2Young's swim training.

132lbs?!?! How tall are you? No wonder you're so stinkin' fast.

So I pretty much have to lose a Juxtatrot before I can think of running like Juxtatrot...---On my end, a 7 mile run - 8:50/mile. Legs were extremely toasty, but I pounded it out. Got very tired over the last mile, so I probably got the distance right.That wraps up a 5 hour workout weekend. I'll take that anytime.

 

[Juxtatarot]

Training Report Week 6 (Recovery Week)

Thursday night I got as sick as I ever remember. Some stomach virus, I guess.

Sat Scheduled for 5 recovery but thought I'd test thing out at MLR pace and run the 10 scheduled for Friday if I felt OK. Felt fine at mile 3 and committed to the 10.

Sun 15 miles. Cold this morning so this was on the treadmill. A touch under 8:00 pace. I felt OK.

'cause, yeah, who doesn't pop back-to-back 10 and 15 milers after being super sick?

Thanks but I was feeling OK by Friday afternoon...just needed to get some fluids and food at that point.

 

[Juxtatarot]

Ugh! I was trying to pin down some tune-up races and had my eye on a half on March 17, but just realized it sold out within a day. There is not much out there that's nearby. There is the Chi Town half marathon on March 24 (I notice Tri-man's also planning to run that) but that's the Sunday before taper. Do you guys think that's too late? Successful half marathons have really helped my confidence in the past so I'd like to get one in.

 

[beer 302]

132lbs?!?! How tall are you? No wonder you're so stinkin' fast.

I hate you both for the fact you can lap me in a 5k but the skinny ####er just moved to the lead position Nice training weeks by both of you Big weekend for some friends of mine, GB completed his first HM @ 1:58 and a 58 year old friend completed Weymouth Woods 100k starting at 8 am on Saturday morning and finishing at 12:30 am on Sunday morning. Incredible run for him Excited for both of them

 

[BassNBrew]

On the plus side, you got sick at a good time being a recovery week and all. 132lbs?!?! How tall are you? No wonder you're so stinkin' fast.

5'11". I thought my skinniness was already well known around these parts!

Jux and 2young playing basketball

 

[tri-man 47]

Ugh! I was trying to pin down some tune-up races and had my eye on a half on March 17, but just realized it sold out within a day. There is not much out there that's nearby. There is the Chi Town half marathon on March 24 (I notice Tri-man's also planning to run that) but that's the Sunday before taper. Do you guys think that's too late? Successful half marathons have really helped my confidence in the past so I'd like to get one in.

Juxt - I think the HM leading into the taper would be a very good fit ...still plenty of time to recover, yet a good challenge and the chance to get the competitive juices flowing. I just signed up, so come join me! It's not a CARA race, so it's also nice for some medal mongering.

 

[Juxtatarot]

Ugh! I was trying to pin down some tune-up races and had my eye on a half on March 17, but just realized it sold out within a day. There is not much out there that's nearby. There is the Chi Town half marathon on March 24 (I notice Tri-man's also planning to run that) but that's the Sunday before taper. Do you guys think that's too late? Successful half marathons have really helped my confidence in the past so I'd like to get one in.

Juxt - I think the HM leading into the taper would be a very good fit ...still plenty of time to recover, yet a good challenge and the chance to get the competitive juices flowing. I just signed up, so come join me! It's not a CARA race, so it's also nice for some medal mongering.

I think I will. I have a 20 miler scheduled that day and I normally hate missing those but I'm running enough miles this training schedule that missing it shouldn't be a big deal. Carpool? I'd pass you on the way downtown.

 

[mr. furley]

ran wearing a balaclava for the first time ever this morning. it somehow felt very wrong.

 

[beer 302]

ran wearing a balaclava for the first time ever this morning. it somehow felt very wrong.

Did you feel like a ninja? I feel I would have special ninja-like powers if I ran with one

 

[mr. furley]

ran wearing a balaclava for the first time ever this morning. it somehow felt very wrong.

Did you feel like a ninja? I feel I would have special ninja-like powers if I ran with one

yes, like a criminal ninja

 

[FUBAR]

ran wearing a balaclava for the first time ever this morning. it somehow felt very wrong.

T-shirt and shorts here 1 mile warm-up, 7 x hill repeats on the 1/4 mile hill near our house (not too bad an incline, but it's noticeable and almost exactly .25 mile long), then .5 cool-down. Felt pretty good, keeping the uphlls under a 6 minute pace. Downhill recoveries were nice and slow.

 

[BassNBrew]

16.7 miles tonite. First were at 10 min pace and felt good. Things went downhill from there as everything started hurting over the next 3 miles. Since I did an out and back with home at my back the entire time out, I was fully committed. Ended up run/walking the last 3.7 home. I guess I'm not recovered from last weekend.

 

[Ned]

16.7 miles tonite. First were at 10 min pace and felt good. Things went downhill from there as everything started hurting over the next 3 miles. Since I did an out and back with home at my back the entire time out, I was fully committed. Ended up run/walking the last 3.7 home. I guess I'm not recovered from last weekend.

of course your first run is a >16 miler.

 

[IvanKaramazov]

Friday Scheduled for 10 miles but Thursday night I got as sick as I ever remember. Some stomach virus, I guess. A lot of :X and , once at the same time! I couldn't even hold water down. Up all night and called off from work. (I'm 42 and this is the first day I've called off sick on any job in my life. Kind of sad the streak is over.) Didn't run this day.

So in mamby-pamby land, the combination of vomiting and diahrrea is a reason for a day off so you can lounge around in bed all day? If you say so . . .

 

[IvanKaramazov]

10 on the treadmill today, with the last 4 at MP. I'm now at the point where it's hard to believe that I did 26.2 at that pace just a few months ago. I mean, doing the last few miles of a 10-miler at that pace is still no big deal, but 16 on top of that? Not happening.

 

[IvanKaramazov]

ran wearing a balaclava for the first time ever this morning. it somehow felt very wrong.

If my notbook is correct, you should have had approximately the same temps that we did today (high of -8 or so). You have to cover your face in that weather. Not optional.

 

[BassNBrew]

ran wearing a balaclava for the first time ever this morning. it somehow felt very wrong.

If my notbook is correct, you should have had approximately the same temps that we did today (high of -8 or so). You have to cover your face in that weather. Not optional.

Shorts and t-shirt today. Even though I run like a pengiun, I don't what to live like one.

 

[IvanKaramazov]

Wed - 3.42 mile recovery run, 9:53 pace in the hills behind me. Figured if I have to run slow might as well do it in the hills.

Fri - 3.11 mile GA run, 9:31 pace.

You're doing good work beer, but both of these workouts are wrong. Recovery runs are supposed to be easy. "I might as well do it in the hills" is not a real recovery run. This is supposed to be a run that you'd be ashamed to post the distance/pace for in a vaccuum. I don't know exactly what your race paces are, but I ran a 3:50 full and 1:43 half last year, and my recovery runs are about that pace or slower on flat terrain.This one is nitpicking, but what's the point of 3 miles at GA pace? I would either do this as a light jog (instead of taking the day off or crosstraining) or just call it a SDO. This particular run isn't doing anything for you.

It could be that as your volume picks up, you'll naturally slow down on these easy days, making this issue self-correcting. But it's something to keep in mind.

 

[beer 302]

Wed - 3.42 mile recovery run, 9:53 pace in the hills behind me. Figured if I have to run slow might as well do it in the hills.

Fri - 3.11 mile GA run, 9:31 pace.

You're doing good work beer, but both of these workouts are wrong. Recovery runs are supposed to be easy. "I might as well do it in the hills" is not a real recovery run. This is supposed to be a run that you'd be ashamed to post the distance/pace for in a vaccuum. I don't know exactly what your race paces are, but I ran a 3:50 full and 1:43 half last year, and my recovery runs are about that pace or slower on flat terrain.This one is nitpicking, but what's the point of 3 miles at GA pace? I would either do this as a light jog (instead of taking the day off or crosstraining) or just call it a SDO. This particular run isn't doing anything for you.

It could be that as your volume picks up, you'll naturally slow down on these easy days, making this issue self-correcting. But it's something to keep in mind.

Yea I hear ya and honestly I thought I was around 10-10:30 pace. The run on Friday is just part of the program, typically it follows a tempo run but it just got rained out last week so it's more a recovery run than anything. M-W-F runs are followed by quality time with free weights. Today was one of the 3 mile recovery days and you'll be happy to hear it was at 10:20 pace. Appreciate the advice, please keep it coming

 

[PatriotJohn]

Anyone running any events in the Air Force Marathon in September? It's open to civilians as well, and takes you through parts of Wright-Patterson AFB and surrounding communities with fly-bys and plenty of spectators! I've run the half twice and will be running it again this year along with my wife, who ran her first half last year and got the itch after losing half her weight.....I thought I would never see her run....so proud of her! Anyways.....just throwing it out there in case anyone needs a unique race to run in Dayton Ohio in September.

 

[Sand]

16.7 miles tonite. First were at 10 min pace and felt good. Things went downhill from there as everything started hurting over the next 3 miles. Since I did an out and back with home at my back the entire time out, I was fully committed. Ended up run/walking the last 3.7 home. I guess I'm not recovered from last weekend.

of course your first run is a >16 miler.

General insanity, man.Light day today - 22 mile ride. 197w average, so really not bad for an 80 minute effort. Was going to run today, as well, but something in the back of my thigh is very sore from running yesterday, so skipped it. Holiday weekend - 6.5 hours. Not too bad. Looking to be a running week as it will be cold, cold, cold this week. We're getting down to 25 tonight. Brrr... Yes, Grue, I know you sympathize. Really gonna try to hit 20+ the next couple weeks.

 

[tri-man 47]

ran wearing a balaclava for the first time ever this morning. it somehow felt very wrong.

Me too! I had a bright-colored stocking cap over that to keep my head warm, a bright tri-jacket as my top layer, and big, thermal gloves. All in all, I was rather comfortable for my 9 mile run, but I was quite the sight. Hey, we're out there running on these nasty, cold days.Juxt - carpooling sounds like a plan! It's an 8:15 race, so the timing shouldn't be too bad. I know that area west of the park reasonably well, so we can find a place to park and jog over as a warm-up I suppose.

PatriotJohn - can't do the race, but major congrats to your wife!!!

 

[Juxtatarot]

Juxt - carpooling sounds like a plan! It's an 8:15 race, so the timing shouldn't be too bad. I know that area west of the park reasonably well, so we can find a place to park and jog over as a warm-up I suppose.

Just signed up. It's official.

 

[FUBAR]

10 miles today to cap off my down week. Didn't run Wednesday or Thursday because of work, but luckily this was a scheduled down week anyway.

It's amazing to me how much of a difference the down week seems to have made. Took Sunday off too as I had my oldest sons at a Cub Scouts sleepover. Yesterday the hill 1/4s felt pretty easy at a good pace (sub 6s).Today we went 4.1 miles, including 1.5 miles on a nice trail, chatting with a friend throughout the run. Turns out we kept a comfortable 7:04 throughout with the last 1.1 at 6:40 pace.

 

[davegameplayer]

Lot of action this weekend for everybody good going all. Saturday I got in a chest tri workout in the morning and ran three in the afternoon. Heart rate was really high throughout the run and I had to stop a couple times just to calm myself down it was an odd occurrence to say the least but got through it. Bought a book called Advanced Marathoning on Amazon it came in. Just started to read it to better understand terminology and running and me. Sunday did a back and bicep workout and went to watch the games and BBQ at a friends. Yesterday was off from work and got in a shoulder abs calves workout missed my run because a girl called and wanted to come over and hang out. Not to bad a weekend except for the run. As for swimming Very impressed with you guys I am always the slowest guy in the pool and really am at a loss on how to increase speed. can swim a mile straight but it takes a bit of time around 45 minutes. Any of you guys on Fitocracy?

 

[IvanKaramazov]

Lot of action this weekend for everybody good going all. Saturday I got in a chest tri workout in the morning and ran three in the afternoon. Heart rate was really high throughout the run and I had to stop a couple times just to calm myself down it was an odd occurrence to say the least but got through it. Bought a book called Advanced Marathoning on Amazon it came in. Just started to read it to better understand terminology and running and me. Sunday did a back and bicep workout and went to watch the games and BBQ at a friends. Yesterday was off from work and got in a shoulder abs calves workout missed my run because a girl called and wanted to come over and hang out. Not to bad a weekend except for the run. As for swimming Very impressed with you guys I am always the slowest guy in the pool and really am at a loss on how to increase speed. can swim a mile straight but it takes a bit of time around 45 minutes. Any of you guys on Fitocracy?

Yesterday the hill 1/4s felt pretty easy at a good pace (sub 6s).

:finger: I can't do a single sub-6:00 quarter on a track (more like 6:30). You're mind-numbingly fast.

 

[Ned]

Lot of action this weekend for everybody good going all. Saturday I got in a chest tri workout in the morning and ran three in the afternoon. Heart rate was really high throughout the run and I had to stop a couple times just to calm myself down it was an odd occurrence to say the least but got through it. Bought a book called Advanced Marathoning on Amazon it came in. Just started to read it to better understand terminology and running and me. Sunday did a back and bicep workout and went to watch the games and BBQ at a friends. Yesterday was off from work and got in a shoulder abs calves workout missed my run because a girl called and wanted to come over and hang out. Not to bad a weekend except for the run. As for swimming Very impressed with you guys I am always the slowest guy in the pool and really am at a loss on how to increase speed. can swim a mile straight but it takes a bit of time around 45 minutes. Any of you guys on Fitocracy?

 

[Hang 10]

On the plus side, you got sick at a good time being a recovery week and all. 132lbs?!?! How tall are you? No wonder you're so stinkin' fast.

5'11". I thought my skinniness was already well known around these parts!

5-11 132??? Dood. EAT SOMETHING. You obviously aren't putting back near the calories you're burning.

 

[gruecd]

Juxt - carpooling sounds like a plan! It's an 8:15 race, so the timing shouldn't be too bad. I know that area west of the park reasonably well, so we can find a place to park and jog over as a warm-up I suppose.

Just signed up. It's official.

D'oh! I was gonna suggest you come up to St. Paul on March 16 and run the Get Lucky Half Marathon with me. It's a nice, hilly course...definitely a good tune-up for Boston!

 

[gruecd]

Was in Cedar Rapids, IA, for work yesterday, and since I didn't want to haul along all of my cold-weather running gear, I did my 8 GA on the treadmill. Run went fine, except I sweat so damn much on those things that you'd swear it was raining in there. My clothes were literally soaked through. Did a couple of quarter-mile repeats to break up the monotony and to replace the strides that were scheduled. Glad it's done.Did yoga this morning at 6 AM, and I've got 11 miles on tap today. No way in hell I'm running that far on a treadmill, and I don't have access to an indoor track, so I'll bundle up and get 'er done. Forecast for 3 PM says 2°F with a wind chill of -15°F. Can't wait....

 

[gruecd]

On the plus side, you got sick at a good time being a recovery week and all. 132lbs?!?! How tall are you? No wonder you're so stinkin' fast.

5'11". I thought my skinniness was already well known around these parts!

5-11 132??? Dood. EAT SOMETHING. You obviously aren't putting back near the calories you're burning.

That's insane. I weigh 1.6 "juxes" right now. Goal is to lose about 1 pound/week to get me down around 205 for Boston.

 

[Juxtatarot]

On the plus side, you got sick at a good time being a recovery week and all. 132lbs?!?! How tall are you? No wonder you're so stinkin' fast.

5'11". I thought my skinniness was already well known around these parts!

5-11 132??? Dood. EAT SOMETHING. You obviously aren't putting back near the calories you're burning.

I'm back up to about 136 now -- it was due to being sick. I was a little under 140 for most of my races last year so this is an OK weight for me.

 

[Juxtatarot]

Juxt - carpooling sounds like a plan! It's an 8:15 race, so the timing shouldn't be too bad. I know that area west of the park reasonably well, so we can find a place to park and jog over as a warm-up I suppose.

Just signed up. It's official.

D'oh! I was gonna suggest you come up to St. Paul on March 16 and run the Get Lucky Half Marathon with me. It's a nice, hilly course...definitely a good tune-up for Boston!

Yes, I saw you were running that from your sig. I considered that one but the travel is kind of a pain and expensive -- particularly just for a tune-up race.BTW, is Rangar Chicago dead? I think we only had 4 or 5 respond.

 

[gruecd]

BTW, is Ragnar Chicago dead? I think we only had 4 or 5 respond.

Yeah, apparently so.

 

[Juxtatarot]

BTW, is Ragnar Chicago dead? I think we only had 4 or 5 respond.

Yeah, apparently so.

I'm blaming Tri-man.

 

[gruecd]

BTW, is Ragnar Chicago dead? I think we only had 4 or 5 respond.

Yeah, apparently so.

I'm blaming Tri-man.

Always a good option....

 

[SteelCurtain]

Interesting read, Duck. Congrats on the progress. I'm also surprised you had to slow down so much on your mile 4s. With the amount of running you do, I'd think you'd just be getting fully warmed up then!

Me, too. On "normal" runs, I seem to feel my best from about 45 minutes-2 hours. And Ned, I agree that volume is a huge part of this. I'm still relatively low volume, running 30-40 miles per week now, and will probably peak around 50 as I continue to ramp up. But I have no doubt higher volumes would/will yield even greater gains.

Been reading Higdon's chapter on mileage. The biggest reason I've been hesitant to train for another marathon or ultra is I like to do other physical training. Weights, cross-fit, etc. I like running but feel better when I do more cross training than I could do if I were to run 50+ miles each week. So, after being convinced to do another marathon, the most mileage I'll probably do will be 45 miles. Should be enough to finish, but I'm not sure I'll run as fast as I could if I concentrated more on running. Being 185 lbs now, which is about 15 lbs more than I was for my previous marathons, is somewhat of a concern for me too but so far it's been okay.

I've done marathons with peak mileage below 45 miles (42 to be precise). I even broke 4:00 on that training, although it was tough. Ned is absolutely right that there's nothing at all wrong with doing it this way if that's how you want to do it. We're doing these events mainly because we enjoy them, after all. If a lower-mileage program keeps you happy through training as opposed to turning your training regimen into a grind, and you're okay with giving up a few minutes on race day, that's cool. Oh and also, the bolded part above isn't really "relatively low volume" for normal people during the non-racing season. 30-40 mpw will keep you in really good shape for the spring.

I did the Philadelphia Marathon in 3:29 with less than 50 MPW. This was my fourth marathon. I really refined my eating. Made sure every workout had a reason for it. I did speed work, hills (lots of them), long runs. Made sure I rested at least 2 days per week. It can be done if you are smart. Fortunately, I'm also naturally "athletic" (thin). I'm 6'1", weighing between 165 (marathon time) - 175 (slow training times).

EDIT: Just noting that I'm catching up from weeks ago in this thread. Sorry for being out of loop for a few weeks.

 

[Juxtatarot]

It can be done if you are smart. Fortunately, I'm also naturally "athletic" (thin). I'm 6'1", weighing between 165 (marathon time) - 175 (slow training times).

 

[FUBAR]

It can be done if you are smart. Fortunately, I'm also naturally "athletic" (thin). I'm 6'1", weighing between 165 (marathon time) - 175 (slow training times).

I'm a good 185 now at 6'0". When I had my body fat checked it was 5% and my BMI is 25.1. So I'm overweight with too low body fat.

 

[Hang 10]

Interesting read, Duck. Congrats on the progress. I'm also surprised you had to slow down so much on your mile 4s. With the amount of running you do, I'd think you'd just be getting fully warmed up then!

Me, too. On "normal" runs, I seem to feel my best from about 45 minutes-2 hours. And Ned, I agree that volume is a huge part of this. I'm still relatively low volume, running 30-40 miles per week now, and will probably peak around 50 as I continue to ramp up. But I have no doubt higher volumes would/will yield even greater gains.

Been reading Higdon's chapter on mileage. The biggest reason I've been hesitant to train for another marathon or ultra is I like to do other physical training. Weights, cross-fit, etc. I like running but feel better when I do more cross training than I could do if I were to run 50+ miles each week. So, after being convinced to do another marathon, the most mileage I'll probably do will be 45 miles. Should be enough to finish, but I'm not sure I'll run as fast as I could if I concentrated more on running. Being 185 lbs now, which is about 15 lbs more than I was for my previous marathons, is somewhat of a concern for me too but so far it's been okay.

I've done marathons with peak mileage below 45 miles (42 to be precise). I even broke 4:00 on that training, although it was tough. Ned is absolutely right that there's nothing at all wrong with doing it this way if that's how you want to do it. We're doing these events mainly because we enjoy them, after all. If a lower-mileage program keeps you happy through training as opposed to turning your training regimen into a grind, and you're okay with giving up a few minutes on race day, that's cool. Oh and also, the bolded part above isn't really "relatively low volume" for normal people during the non-racing season. 30-40 mpw will keep you in really good shape for the spring.

I did the Philadelphia Marathon in 3:29 with less than 50 MPW. This was my fourth marathon. I really refined my eating. Made sure every workout had a reason for it. I did speed work, hills (lots of them), long runs. Made sure I rested at least 2 days per week. It can be done if you are smart. Fortunately, I'm also naturally "athletic" (thin). I'm 6'1", weighing between 165 (marathon time) - 175 (slow training times).

EDIT: Just noting that I'm catching up from weeks ago in this thread. Sorry for being out of loop for a few weeks.

I've only done one marathon (3:35) and only averaged running 3 times a week, 30 miles per.

 

[FUBAR]

Yesterday the hill 1/4s felt pretty easy at a good pace (sub 6s).

:finger: I can't do a single sub-6:00 quarter on a track (more like 6:30). You're mind-numbingly fast.

I really don't feel that. There are quite a few people here who blow me out of the water.

 

[Ned]

Interesting read, Duck. Congrats on the progress. I'm also surprised you had to slow down so much on your mile 4s. With the amount of running you do, I'd think you'd just be getting fully warmed up then!

Me, too. On "normal" runs, I seem to feel my best from about 45 minutes-2 hours. And Ned, I agree that volume is a huge part of this. I'm still relatively low volume, running 30-40 miles per week now, and will probably peak around 50 as I continue to ramp up. But I have no doubt higher volumes would/will yield even greater gains.

Been reading Higdon's chapter on mileage. The biggest reason I've been hesitant to train for another marathon or ultra is I like to do other physical training. Weights, cross-fit, etc. I like running but feel better when I do more cross training than I could do if I were to run 50+ miles each week. So, after being convinced to do another marathon, the most mileage I'll probably do will be 45 miles. Should be enough to finish, but I'm not sure I'll run as fast as I could if I concentrated more on running. Being 185 lbs now, which is about 15 lbs more than I was for my previous marathons, is somewhat of a concern for me too but so far it's been okay.

I've done marathons with peak mileage below 45 miles (42 to be precise). I even broke 4:00 on that training, although it was tough. Ned is absolutely right that there's nothing at all wrong with doing it this way if that's how you want to do it. We're doing these events mainly because we enjoy them, after all. If a lower-mileage program keeps you happy through training as opposed to turning your training regimen into a grind, and you're okay with giving up a few minutes on race day, that's cool. Oh and also, the bolded part above isn't really "relatively low volume" for normal people during the non-racing season. 30-40 mpw will keep you in really good shape for the spring.

I did the Philadelphia Marathon in 3:29 with less than 50 MPW. This was my fourth marathon. I really refined my eating. Made sure every workout had a reason for it. I did speed work, hills (lots of them), long runs. Made sure I rested at least 2 days per week. It can be done if you are smart. Fortunately, I'm also naturally "athletic" (thin). I'm 6'1", weighing between 165 (marathon time) - 175 (slow training times).

EDIT: Just noting that I'm catching up from weeks ago in this thread. Sorry for being out of loop for a few weeks.

I've only done one marathon (3:35) and only averaged running 3 times a week, 30 miles per.

Finish times are all relative, though. I'd argue you have a ton of potential left on the table if you can run a 3:35 on such little mileage. It's all about getting max effort for you.

 

[Hang 10]

Interesting read, Duck. Congrats on the progress. I'm also surprised you had to slow down so much on your mile 4s. With the amount of running you do, I'd think you'd just be getting fully warmed up then!

Me, too. On "normal" runs, I seem to feel my best from about 45 minutes-2 hours. And Ned, I agree that volume is a huge part of this. I'm still relatively low volume, running 30-40 miles per week now, and will probably peak around 50 as I continue to ramp up. But I have no doubt higher volumes would/will yield even greater gains.

Been reading Higdon's chapter on mileage. The biggest reason I've been hesitant to train for another marathon or ultra is I like to do other physical training. Weights, cross-fit, etc. I like running but feel better when I do more cross training than I could do if I were to run 50+ miles each week. So, after being convinced to do another marathon, the most mileage I'll probably do will be 45 miles. Should be enough to finish, but I'm not sure I'll run as fast as I could if I concentrated more on running. Being 185 lbs now, which is about 15 lbs more than I was for my previous marathons, is somewhat of a concern for me too but so far it's been okay.

I've done marathons with peak mileage below 45 miles (42 to be precise). I even broke 4:00 on that training, although it was tough. Ned is absolutely right that there's nothing at all wrong with doing it this way if that's how you want to do it. We're doing these events mainly because we enjoy them, after all. If a lower-mileage program keeps you happy through training as opposed to turning your training regimen into a grind, and you're okay with giving up a few minutes on race day, that's cool. Oh and also, the bolded part above isn't really "relatively low volume" for normal people during the non-racing season. 30-40 mpw will keep you in really good shape for the spring.

I did the Philadelphia Marathon in 3:29 with less than 50 MPW. This was my fourth marathon. I really refined my eating. Made sure every workout had a reason for it. I did speed work, hills (lots of them), long runs. Made sure I rested at least 2 days per week. It can be done if you are smart. Fortunately, I'm also naturally "athletic" (thin). I'm 6'1", weighing between 165 (marathon time) - 175 (slow training times).

EDIT: Just noting that I'm catching up from weeks ago in this thread. Sorry for being out of loop for a few weeks.

I've only done one marathon (3:35) and only averaged running 3 times a week, 30 miles per.

Finish times are all relative, though. I'd argue you have a ton of potential left on the table if you can run a 3:35 on such little mileage. It's all about getting max effort for you.

But what is really the optimal mileage? The mileage I ran was just based on training plan a buddy suggested. I don't doubt there's better plans out there though.

 

[Ned]

Interesting read, Duck. Congrats on the progress. I'm also surprised you had to slow down so much on your mile 4s. With the amount of running you do, I'd think you'd just be getting fully warmed up then!

Me, too. On "normal" runs, I seem to feel my best from about 45 minutes-2 hours. And Ned, I agree that volume is a huge part of this. I'm still relatively low volume, running 30-40 miles per week now, and will probably peak around 50 as I continue to ramp up. But I have no doubt higher volumes would/will yield even greater gains.

Been reading Higdon's chapter on mileage. The biggest reason I've been hesitant to train for another marathon or ultra is I like to do other physical training. Weights, cross-fit, etc. I like running but feel better when I do more cross training than I could do if I were to run 50+ miles each week. So, after being convinced to do another marathon, the most mileage I'll probably do will be 45 miles. Should be enough to finish, but I'm not sure I'll run as fast as I could if I concentrated more on running. Being 185 lbs now, which is about 15 lbs more than I was for my previous marathons, is somewhat of a concern for me too but so far it's been okay.

I've done marathons with peak mileage below 45 miles (42 to be precise). I even broke 4:00 on that training, although it was tough. Ned is absolutely right that there's nothing at all wrong with doing it this way if that's how you want to do it. We're doing these events mainly because we enjoy them, after all. If a lower-mileage program keeps you happy through training as opposed to turning your training regimen into a grind, and you're okay with giving up a few minutes on race day, that's cool. Oh and also, the bolded part above isn't really "relatively low volume" for normal people during the non-racing season. 30-40 mpw will keep you in really good shape for the spring.

I did the Philadelphia Marathon in 3:29 with less than 50 MPW. This was my fourth marathon. I really refined my eating. Made sure every workout had a reason for it. I did speed work, hills (lots of them), long runs. Made sure I rested at least 2 days per week. It can be done if you are smart. Fortunately, I'm also naturally "athletic" (thin). I'm 6'1", weighing between 165 (marathon time) - 175 (slow training times).

EDIT: Just noting that I'm catching up from weeks ago in this thread. Sorry for being out of loop for a few weeks.

I've only done one marathon (3:35) and only averaged running 3 times a week, 30 miles per.

Finish times are all relative, though. I'd argue you have a ton of potential left on the table if you can run a 3:35 on such little mileage. It's all about getting max effort for you.

But what is really the optimal mileage? The mileage I ran was just based on training plan a buddy suggested. I don't doubt there's better plans out there though.

There's no one size fits all, but I'll bet just about everything I got that you'd run a faster time with a higher volume type plan like the Pfitz 18/55 or Higdon's advanced plans.

 

[Hang 10]

Interesting read, Duck. Congrats on the progress. I'm also surprised you had to slow down so much on your mile 4s. With the amount of running you do, I'd think you'd just be getting fully warmed up then!

Me, too. On "normal" runs, I seem to feel my best from about 45 minutes-2 hours. And Ned, I agree that volume is a huge part of this. I'm still relatively low volume, running 30-40 miles per week now, and will probably peak around 50 as I continue to ramp up. But I have no doubt higher volumes would/will yield even greater gains.

Been reading Higdon's chapter on mileage. The biggest reason I've been hesitant to train for another marathon or ultra is I like to do other physical training. Weights, cross-fit, etc. I like running but feel better when I do more cross training than I could do if I were to run 50+ miles each week. So, after being convinced to do another marathon, the most mileage I'll probably do will be 45 miles. Should be enough to finish, but I'm not sure I'll run as fast as I could if I concentrated more on running. Being 185 lbs now, which is about 15 lbs more than I was for my previous marathons, is somewhat of a concern for me too but so far it's been okay.

I've done marathons with peak mileage below 45 miles (42 to be precise). I even broke 4:00 on that training, although it was tough. Ned is absolutely right that there's nothing at all wrong with doing it this way if that's how you want to do it. We're doing these events mainly because we enjoy them, after all. If a lower-mileage program keeps you happy through training as opposed to turning your training regimen into a grind, and you're okay with giving up a few minutes on race day, that's cool. Oh and also, the bolded part above isn't really "relatively low volume" for normal people during the non-racing season. 30-40 mpw will keep you in really good shape for the spring.

I did the Philadelphia Marathon in 3:29 with less than 50 MPW. This was my fourth marathon. I really refined my eating. Made sure every workout had a reason for it. I did speed work, hills (lots of them), long runs. Made sure I rested at least 2 days per week. It can be done if you are smart. Fortunately, I'm also naturally "athletic" (thin). I'm 6'1", weighing between 165 (marathon time) - 175 (slow training times).

EDIT: Just noting that I'm catching up from weeks ago in this thread. Sorry for being out of loop for a few weeks.

I've only done one marathon (3:35) and only averaged running 3 times a week, 30 miles per.

Finish times are all relative, though. I'd argue you have a ton of potential left on the table if you can run a 3:35 on such little mileage. It's all about getting max effort for you.

But what is really the optimal mileage? The mileage I ran was just based on training plan a buddy suggested. I don't doubt there's better plans out there though.

There's no one size fits all, but I'll bet just about everything I got that you'd run a faster time with a higher volume type plan like the Pfitz 18/55 or Higdon's advanced plans.

I'm sure you're probably right. I've never fully committed myself to running. I still strength/crosstrain as much as I run. Doubt I'm going to give that up anytime soon. Though, I wouldn't mind fully committing to a race and just see where it takes me. And who is this Higdon you speak of?

 

[beer 302]

And who is this Higdon you speak of?

Hal http://www.halhigdon.com/He's the one I use