beer 302
Footballguy
It's a bit of a task to get there but any self-respecting iStalker can knock it out in a few minutes. SteveC has a pretty impressive stat line
This sounds a lot more diabolical than it is. Flonase to the rescue!
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Ran a 10k in June (6 Viewers)
- Thread starter GStrot
- Start date
Juxtatarot
Footballguy
sho nuff
Footballguy
Hah.2 sinus surgeries already (last one 4 years ago).Another one probable around May if this next treatment does not work.Ive flushed, used all the mist craps, tons of things.Doc bascially has this company sending me what they call an Atomizer which is going to flush my sinuses with antibiotics and steroids twice a day.I have one messed up nose. He scoped me monday and wondered how it was I was feeling ok. Just used to the crap I guess.
beer 302
Footballguy
Oof, that blows man. Nothing worst than sinus issues. I've had some kinda crap going on with mine for about a month but it hasn't turned into anything more than a PITA when I run and snot all over myself. My wife has all kinds of allergy related issues but when they start talking about cutting on you that's serious.
gruecd
Footballguy
I'm doing the Ice Age Trail 50 in the South Kettle Moraine in southeast Wisconsin (about 50 minutes SW of Milwaukee).Honestly, while the terrain for this one is definitely harder than JFK, I think it will be an easier race. Why? The first part of JFK (on the Appalachian Trail) is pretty cool, but the “Canal” section is 26+ miles (from 15.5-41.8 miles) of almost totally flat unpaved dirt/gravel surface. Borrring. Ice Age is technical trail the entire way; you're so caught up in watching for rocks and roots, making tactical decisions about running/walking hills, etc., that I'm guessing you never really get caught up in the enormity of what you're trying to do. When you're out there on the towpath at JFK, that's all you think about.'SteveC702 said:
Good luck on your quest for sub-70. I saw the start of the USA Half Marathon Championships at Grandma's last June. Pretty cool. Personally, I'd just love to go sub-85 one day...
Hang 10
Footballguy
Maybe I'm doing it wrong but I don't see any 2013 races on that list.ETA: NEVERMIND
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Juxtatarot
Footballguy
SFBayDuck
Footballguy
I'm worried about the same thing with my 50M in April - the first 26 or so are on bike path before hitting single track, albeit mostly along the Sacramento River so hopefully it won't be too boring for me. Hopefully will help that it's the opposite of JFK in that the trail is the 2nd part of the race. Of course that also means that stupid climbthe last 2.5 miles!
Ned
Footballguy
Do you have to be spiderman to qualify for this race? :X
IvanKaramazov
Footballguy
5Ks suck. No way around it.It's not a joke! Do you remember my previous attempt at a 5K? My link@ jux 'just finishing' a 5K.
2Young2BBald
Footbaldguy
Fixed.5Ks suck, No way around it. unless there is beer or bloody marys after (better yet, both)It's not a joke! Do you remember my previous attempt at a 5K? My link
You just have to break this down into sections. At least it won't be snowing and you won't be on a treadmill.For me I look at every mile done as 2 completed. One mile further away from zero and one mile closer to the finish. For 50 you can set a marathon time goal and shoot for that. Watching my pace vs. that goal keeps me entertained. After the marathon your more than halfway there. That's when me second wind kicks in. It's not long thereafter you can think about being 2/3's of the way done and then 3/4's of the way done. When there's 12 left to go, you're talking about basically what amounts to an easy training day for guys like you and Gru. Heck, Gru rolls on of bed and knocks on 12 in the time it takes me to eat breakfast and take a dump. Once you're in the 6-8 range to go you can start thinking about a new finish time goal. 5 to go and you have less than an hour to run. 3 and less you can work on your last targets in front of you.
Sand - Brutal bike workout today. 15 mins averaging about 275 watts followed immediately by 2 mins at 350 watts. 5 min recovery at 230 watts (I only recovered to just under LT) and then immediately into 5 x 2 mins x 350 which I couldn't complete 3 of them. Ended with a 4 mile uphill TT where I average 264 watts on decimated legs.
Sand
Footballguy
And to think I felt good about the 1/2 hour on a spin bike I squeezed in yesterday.
By the time BS&G comes around you're gonna drop me 2 miles in.To be fair I did have to suffer the day yesterday at coed heaven (U. Alabama). It was a tough, exhausting job...That's kind of funny reading about your POV of JFK, since that boring segment is what makes it appeal to me. In fact, I actually toyed with the idea of running the Chicago lake front 50K or 50-miler where you basically just run 3-4 out-and-back loops on the bike path. I guess my ability to deal with monotony is why I haven't gone crazy in the Alaskan winters up here. (my long run options are 20-23 milers on the treadmill or a 200-meter indoor track)I think if you are already at 87:00 and are in your early-mid 30s you still have quite a bit of room for improvement. I was running low-mid 80s 4-5 years ago but I decided to just be patient and pile on the miles and ended up taking off a couple of minutes every year. I would think sub-85 this year should be doable for you even with your focus on the longer stuff.'gruecd said:
Juxtatarot
Footballguy
Get ready for someSteve, teach me!
I'm a 20 to 25 mile a week(3 days) runner on average. Can run a half marathon in about 1:31ish. Overall pretty average runner. How do get fast like you...or take the next step?
I'll hang up and listen.
about the bolded. 1:31 is certainly well above average.
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Hang 10
Footballguy
You know I mean...I still consider myself more of a weekend warrior. Sure, 1:31 is a good time for sure and I'll be happy as hell if hit that number in two weeks but hundreds of runners will finish ahead of me. I'm average when compared to real runners.Get ready for someSteve, teach me!
I'm a 20 to 25 mile a week(3 days) runner on average. Can run a half marathon in about 1:31ish. Overall pretty average runner. How do get fast like you...or take the next step?
I'll hang up and listen.
Running 7-minute miles with that training load (20-25 mpw) is actually pretty impressive and bodes well as a starting point.I would say run more, but I don't know your time constraints. (i.e. how much time you can devote to training per day, per week, etc... and responsibilities like family/kids/jobs). But if you have the time, I would at least aim for the following.1. Increase weekly mileage by 2-3 miles every 2 weeks until you are running at least 40 mpw. In the beginning, run as slowly as you need to on your runs in order to hit the mileage goal. Do 1 workout max per week. If you are running 20-25 mpw on 3 days (about 6-8 miles per run) you should be able to hit 40 mpw while running only 5 days per week. That still gives you 2 days off per week.2. Once you are used to running 40 mpw for 2-3 weeks, I would advise a basic training schedule like this: (it's pretty generic, you would need to probably adjust it a little depending on how far along you are in your training cycle)Monday - off or cross-train.Tuesday - Threshold workout. (1-2 miles warmup, workout, then 1-2miles cool down). The workout would be something like 4-6 miles @ half marathon goal pace, or broken up like 2x3mi or 3x2mi at goal HMP.Wednesday - Easy run. (6-8)Thursday - VO2 max workout. (1-2mi warmup, workout, 1-2mi cool down). Workout would be something like 6x800 @ 5K pace with a 1-lap jog in between intervals for recovery.Friday - off or cross-train.Saturday - Easy run. (6-8)Sunday - Long run of 10-14 miles. If you feel pretty good I would try to run the last few miles @ goal HMP + 10%. (so if you are running 7-minute miles, try to get down to 7:40s for the last 3-4 miles)3. I guess after that it's just a cycle of:-Set a goal of about 1-2 minutes faster than current PR.-Adjust workout times based on new goal.-Add a few more miles per week if your body can handle it, but if you are still improving and running PRs at your current training load then more miles isn't necessarily the answer. (especially if adding those miles means you are too tired to do your workouts).A few things that I think really helped me get to where I am right now-Avoiding injuries. Stringing together weeks and weeks of pretty good training is better than doing a few crazy weeks of training and then getting hurt. I try not to do more than 2 workouts a week, and if I do I make sure at least one of the workouts that week is about 50% of what I would do for a full workout.-Don't get caught up on pace on your easy days. I think of these runs as just helping me recover and a light muscular workout for my legs. I sometimes run these with my wife (around 9min/mile). I run these at a comfortable conversational pace and always try to make sure I am going slow enough to be recovered before my next workout.-Don't worry about workout paces if you are having an off day. I feel like running workouts while not sufficiently recovered or being stubborn about hitting times while you are tired is a prime receipt for getting injured. I have absolutely no problem backing off the pace or cutting the workout short if I am having an off day. Last year when I was focusing for a 5K I tried to run a workout of 4xMile repeats every week, and bailed after 2-3 repeats every week for a month. Eventually I came around, but I think if I had kept on hammering during those sessions I would've at least pulled a muscle or two.Steve, teach me! I'm a 20 to 25 mile a week(3 days) runner on average. Can run a half marathon in about 1:31ish. Overall pretty average runner. How do get fast like you...or take the next step? I'll hang up and listen.
Hang 10
Footballguy
Much appreciated.Running 7-minute miles with that training load (20-25 mpw) is actually pretty impressive and bodes well as a starting point.I would say run more, but I don't know your time constraints. (i.e. how much time you can devote to training per day, per week, etc... and responsibilities like family/kids/jobs). But if you have the time, I would at least aim for the following.1. Increase weekly mileage by 2-3 miles every 2 weeks until you are running at least 40 mpw. In the beginning, run as slowly as you need to on your runs in order to hit the mileage goal. Do 1 workout max per week. If you are running 20-25 mpw on 3 days (about 6-8 miles per run) you should be able to hit 40 mpw while running only 5 days per week. That still gives you 2 days off per week.2. Once you are used to running 40 mpw for 2-3 weeks, I would advise a basic training schedule like this: (it's pretty generic, you would need to probably adjust it a little depending on how far along you are in your training cycle)Monday - off or cross-train.Tuesday - Threshold workout. (1-2 miles warmup, workout, then 1-2miles cool down). The workout would be something like 4-6 miles @ half marathon goal pace, or broken up like 2x3mi or 3x2mi at goal HMP.Wednesday - Easy run. (6-8)Thursday - VO2 max workout. (1-2mi warmup, workout, 1-2mi cool down). Workout would be something like 6x800 @ 5K pace with a 1-lap jog in between intervals for recovery.Friday - off or cross-train.Saturday - Easy run. (6-8)Sunday - Long run of 10-14 miles. If you feel pretty good I would try to run the last few miles @ goal HMP + 10%. (so if you are running 7-minute miles, try to get down to 7:40s for the last 3-4 miles)3. I guess after that it's just a cycle of:-Set a goal of about 1-2 minutes faster than current PR.-Adjust workout times based on new goal.-Add a few more miles per week if your body can handle it, but if you are still improving and running PRs at your current training load then more miles isn't necessarily the answer. (especially if adding those miles means you are too tired to do your workouts).A few things that I think really helped me get to where I am right now-Avoiding injuries. Stringing together weeks and weeks of pretty good training is better than doing a few crazy weeks of training and then getting hurt. I try not to do more than 2 workouts a week, and if I do I make sure at least one of the workouts that week is about 50% of what I would do for a full workout.-Don't get caught up on pace on your easy days. I think of these runs as just helping me recover and a light muscular workout for my legs. I sometimes run these with my wife (around 9min/mile). I run these at a comfortable conversational pace and always try to make sure I am going slow enough to be recovered before my next workout.-Don't worry about workout paces if you are having an off day. I feel like running workouts while not sufficiently recovered or being stubborn about hitting times while you are tired is a prime receipt for getting injured. I have absolutely no problem backing off the pace or cutting the workout short if I am having an off day. Last year when I was focusing for a 5K I tried to run a workout of 4xMile repeats every week, and bailed after 2-3 repeats every week for a month. Eventually I came around, but I think if I had kept on hammering during those sessions I would've at least pulled a muscle or two.Steve, teach me! I'm a 20 to 25 mile a week(3 days) runner on average. Can run a half marathon in about 1:31ish. Overall pretty average runner. How do get fast like you...or take the next step? I'll hang up and listen.
I'm going to get through this race and I'm going to strongly consider trying this with a marathon goal.I wouldn't try that schedule for a marathon since I tailored it for a half. I feel like with a marathon there is more of a variation in training from week-to-week as well as different workouts for different phases in your cycle. I might just recommend you buy either "Advanced Marathoning" by Pete Pfitzinger or "Hanson's Marathon Method" by Luke Humphrey and follow one of the plans in either of those books. I like the Hanson's book the most out of all the books out there, but their long run tops out at 16 miles and I am pretty sure 9 out of 10 runners who follow their plan will do a longer run than that. (and I strongly disagree with the carbo loading section about how you don't eat 4 plates of pasta the night before the race, but that's neither here nor there)Much appreciated.Running 7-minute miles with that training load (20-25 mpw) is actually pretty impressive and bodes well as a starting point.I would say run more, but I don't know your time constraints. (i.e. how much time you can devote to training per day, per week, etc... and responsibilities like family/kids/jobs). But if you have the time, I would at least aim for the following.1. Increase weekly mileage by 2-3 miles every 2 weeks until you are running at least 40 mpw. In the beginning, run as slowly as you need to on your runs in order to hit the mileage goal. Do 1 workout max per week. If you are running 20-25 mpw on 3 days (about 6-8 miles per run) you should be able to hit 40 mpw while running only 5 days per week. That still gives you 2 days off per week.2. Once you are used to running 40 mpw for 2-3 weeks, I would advise a basic training schedule like this: (it's pretty generic, you would need to probably adjust it a little depending on how far along you are in your training cycle)Monday - off or cross-train.Tuesday - Threshold workout. (1-2 miles warmup, workout, then 1-2miles cool down). The workout would be something like 4-6 miles @ half marathon goal pace, or broken up like 2x3mi or 3x2mi at goal HMP.Wednesday - Easy run. (6-8)Thursday - VO2 max workout. (1-2mi warmup, workout, 1-2mi cool down). Workout would be something like 6x800 @ 5K pace with a 1-lap jog in between intervals for recovery.Friday - off or cross-train.Saturday - Easy run. (6-8)Sunday - Long run of 10-14 miles. If you feel pretty good I would try to run the last few miles @ goal HMP + 10%. (so if you are running 7-minute miles, try to get down to 7:40s for the last 3-4 miles)3. I guess after that it's just a cycle of:-Set a goal of about 1-2 minutes faster than current PR.-Adjust workout times based on new goal.-Add a few more miles per week if your body can handle it, but if you are still improving and running PRs at your current training load then more miles isn't necessarily the answer. (especially if adding those miles means you are too tired to do your workouts).A few things that I think really helped me get to where I am right now-Avoiding injuries. Stringing together weeks and weeks of pretty good training is better than doing a few crazy weeks of training and then getting hurt. I try not to do more than 2 workouts a week, and if I do I make sure at least one of the workouts that week is about 50% of what I would do for a full workout.-Don't get caught up on pace on your easy days. I think of these runs as just helping me recover and a light muscular workout for my legs. I sometimes run these with my wife (around 9min/mile). I run these at a comfortable conversational pace and always try to make sure I am going slow enough to be recovered before my next workout.-Don't worry about workout paces if you are having an off day. I feel like running workouts while not sufficiently recovered or being stubborn about hitting times while you are tired is a prime receipt for getting injured. I have absolutely no problem backing off the pace or cutting the workout short if I am having an off day. Last year when I was focusing for a 5K I tried to run a workout of 4xMile repeats every week, and bailed after 2-3 repeats every week for a month. Eventually I came around, but I think if I had kept on hammering during those sessions I would've at least pulled a muscle or two.Steve, teach me! I'm a 20 to 25 mile a week(3 days) runner on average. Can run a half marathon in about 1:31ish. Overall pretty average runner. How do get fast like you...or take the next step? I'll hang up and listen.
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Ned
Footballguy
This is meant in a good way.... You're looking at this backwards. You're able to pop off these times with little to no endurance work. You've got way more than "average" talent.You know I mean...I still consider myself more of a weekend warrior. Sure, 1:31 is a good time for sure and I'll be happy as hell if hit that number in two weeks but hundreds of runners will finish ahead of me. I'm average when compared to real runners.Get ready for someSteve, teach me!
I'm a 20 to 25 mile a week(3 days) runner on average. Can run a half marathon in about 1:31ish. Overall pretty average runner. How do get fast like you...or take the next step?
I'll hang up and listen.
Juxtatarot
Footballguy
Steve- What are some things you like about Hanson compared to Pfitzinger?
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Sand
Footballguy
First hard run in forever today. 5 mile run in 38:20 with the last mile at 7:10. Not too bad for the first fast run in 6 months. Followed up with a decent, though tired swim. Did hit a 2:24 200yd set with lots left in the tank, which was pretty skippy. Finished the swim out with a tired 6:25 500, which was also quite good considering I basically crawled out of the pool.
1) More emphasis on MP runs. I can't find my copy of Pfitzinger at the moment, but I was pretty sure he only had a MP session scheduled every 3-4 weeks, whereas the Hanson's plan have a MP session every week. I like the specificity of their plan better. 2) I feel like some of the VO2max sessions in the later part of the Pfitzinger plans are kind of pointless as its a little too late to get any real VO2max gains at that point. Most people are probably better served by another MP or threshold session.
3) The lack of emphasis on 20-mile+ long runs. I just don't believe slogging through a 20-24 miler is the best way to train for a marathon. The wear and tear from these runs on most beginning runners are just not worth it. (especially if you have to take more than 1-2 easy days after them to recover). I actually sort of experimented with this last year where I ran a marathon in January, and didn't do a single run longer than 18.5 miles between then and my September marathon. I did cramp up at around 25.5 miles in my September marathon, but I honestly believe it was more due to the fact that my legs were shot from racing 5 weekends in a row leading up to the race than the lack of long runs. That's not to say I don't plan on doing any runs that are 20+ miles in this training cycle, but they're going to happen because I will be doing 15-16 mile MP runs with a 2-3 mile warmup + 2-3 mile cooldown rather than because I set out to cover that specific distance.
4) This one is more personal than anything else. I like how they basically have the same set of workouts each week. (i.e. speed or strength workouts as the first workout of the week depending on the phase you are in, then MP/tempo a couple of days later, then long run on the weekends). This makes it easier for me to get in a rhythm and build momentum week-to-week.
With that said, I don't follow their plan exactly. In addition to doing longer MP sessions than they recommend (which maxes out at 10 miles) and incorporating it into my long run, I had to modify the schedule and dial back the mileage a little bit the last month to try to run a fast half last weekend. For the next 5 weeks though my week will basically look like this:
Tuesday - tempo or speed.
Wednesday - medium long run. (13-16)
Saturday - long run with 10-16 miles of it at goal marathon pace.
(then easy running the other days)
My apologies for the novel, but most times when someone ask me a running-related question I have trouble giving them a short answer.
Ned
Footballguy
You're gonna fit right in.
Hang 10
Footballguy
Gotcha.I think the main take away, is that I need to start running 5 days a week. I've got this half in a little over 2 weeks and then I'm going to have to figure a way to add a couple days to the schedule. This has always been difficult for me, since I've always really been into weight training and have always worried about dropping too much weight. Though it's starting to be less of a concern. Sorta feel like I need to get off the speedwork for a while though...feelin pretty beat up right now.I wouldn't try that schedule for a marathon since I tailored it for a half. I feel like with a marathon there is more of a variation in training from week-to-week as well as different workouts for different phases in your cycle. I might just recommend you buy either "Advanced Marathoning" by Pete Pfitzinger or "Hanson's Marathon Method" by Luke Humphrey and follow one of the plans in either of those books. I like the Hanson's book the most out of all the books out there, but their long run tops out at 16 miles and I am pretty sure 9 out of 10 runners who follow their plan will do a longer run than that. (and I strongly disagree with the carbo loading section about how you don't eat 4 plates of pasta the night before the race, but that's neither here nor there)Much appreciated.Running 7-minute miles with that training load (20-25 mpw) is actually pretty impressive and bodes well as a starting point.I would say run more, but I don't know your time constraints. (i.e. how much time you can devote to training per day, per week, etc... and responsibilities like family/kids/jobs). But if you have the time, I would at least aim for the following.1. Increase weekly mileage by 2-3 miles every 2 weeks until you are running at least 40 mpw. In the beginning, run as slowly as you need to on your runs in order to hit the mileage goal. Do 1 workout max per week. If you are running 20-25 mpw on 3 days (about 6-8 miles per run) you should be able to hit 40 mpw while running only 5 days per week. That still gives you 2 days off per week.2. Once you are used to running 40 mpw for 2-3 weeks, I would advise a basic training schedule like this: (it's pretty generic, you would need to probably adjust it a little depending on how far along you are in your training cycle)Monday - off or cross-train.Tuesday - Threshold workout. (1-2 miles warmup, workout, then 1-2miles cool down). The workout would be something like 4-6 miles @ half marathon goal pace, or broken up like 2x3mi or 3x2mi at goal HMP.Wednesday - Easy run. (6-8)Thursday - VO2 max workout. (1-2mi warmup, workout, 1-2mi cool down). Workout would be something like 6x800 @ 5K pace with a 1-lap jog in between intervals for recovery.Friday - off or cross-train.Saturday - Easy run. (6-8)Sunday - Long run of 10-14 miles. If you feel pretty good I would try to run the last few miles @ goal HMP + 10%. (so if you are running 7-minute miles, try to get down to 7:40s for the last 3-4 miles)3. I guess after that it's just a cycle of:-Set a goal of about 1-2 minutes faster than current PR.-Adjust workout times based on new goal.-Add a few more miles per week if your body can handle it, but if you are still improving and running PRs at your current training load then more miles isn't necessarily the answer. (especially if adding those miles means you are too tired to do your workouts).A few things that I think really helped me get to where I am right now-Avoiding injuries. Stringing together weeks and weeks of pretty good training is better than doing a few crazy weeks of training and then getting hurt. I try not to do more than 2 workouts a week, and if I do I make sure at least one of the workouts that week is about 50% of what I would do for a full workout.-Don't get caught up on pace on your easy days. I think of these runs as just helping me recover and a light muscular workout for my legs. I sometimes run these with my wife (around 9min/mile). I run these at a comfortable conversational pace and always try to make sure I am going slow enough to be recovered before my next workout.-Don't worry about workout paces if you are having an off day. I feel like running workouts while not sufficiently recovered or being stubborn about hitting times while you are tired is a prime receipt for getting injured. I have absolutely no problem backing off the pace or cutting the workout short if I am having an off day. Last year when I was focusing for a 5K I tried to run a workout of 4xMile repeats every week, and bailed after 2-3 repeats every week for a month. Eventually I came around, but I think if I had kept on hammering during those sessions I would've at least pulled a muscle or two.Steve, teach me! I'm a 20 to 25 mile a week(3 days) runner on average. Can run a half marathon in about 1:31ish. Overall pretty average runner. How do get fast like you...or take the next step? I'll hang up and listen.
Hang 10
Footballguy
Thanks. I guess, I don't focus on how much more training the guys I'm "competing" against are doing than me. And I've never thought that I didn't do enough endurance work. I do run 8 to 10 miles every saturday depending on the race. Past month I've ran 14, 9, 14.5 and 18.6 respectively. I do understand that's nothing when compared to the volume Jux and Grue schedule though.This is meant in a good way.... You're looking at this backwards. You're able to pop off these times with little to no endurance work. You've got way more than "average" talent.You know I mean...I still consider myself more of a weekend warrior. Sure, 1:31 is a good time for sure and I'll be happy as hell if hit that number in two weeks but hundreds of runners will finish ahead of me. I'm average when compared to real runners.Get ready for someSteve, teach me!
I'm a 20 to 25 mile a week(3 days) runner on average. Can run a half marathon in about 1:31ish. Overall pretty average runner. How do get fast like you...or take the next step?
I'll hang up and listen.
beer 302
Footballguy
Good stuff SteveC!
Ned
Footballguy
I need to pay more attention. I didn't realize you ran those, other than the 30K. I'm of the strong belief that your training should have around 80% of your weekly volume as endurance work. The longer your races are, the more important this becomes, obviously.It all goes back to your goals. Want to just run a decent time (for you)? You're training is fine. Want to get every last drop of potential out of you? Volume is king. If I were focusing on HM and below, I'd model my plans off of Pfitz 18/55, but add a bit more speedwork. Which is essentially what Steve mapped out above.Thanks. I guess, I don't focus on how much more training the guys I'm "competing" against are doing than me. And I've never thought that I didn't do enough endurance work. I do run 8 to 10 miles every saturday depending on the race. Past month I've ran 14, 9, 14.5 and 18.6 respectively. I do understand that's nothing when compared to the volume Jux and Grue schedule though.This is meant in a good way.... You're looking at this backwards. You're able to pop off these times with little to no endurance work. You've got way more than "average" talent.You know I mean...I still consider myself more of a weekend warrior. Sure, 1:31 is a good time for sure and I'll be happy as hell if hit that number in two weeks but hundreds of runners will finish ahead of me. I'm average when compared to real runners.Get ready for someSteve, teach me!
I'm a 20 to 25 mile a week(3 days) runner on average. Can run a half marathon in about 1:31ish. Overall pretty average runner. How do get fast like you...or take the next step?
I'll hang up and listen.
GL! You got the talent to push jux and grue, IMO.
gruecd
Footballguy
Especially if grue's training keeps on getting jacked up by this POS Wisconsin weather....
gruecd
Footballguy
That's insane. I have a buddy who lives in Anchorage who does the same kind of thing. I don't know how you guys do it. My longest-ever treadmill run was 15 miles, and I wanted to off myself...I've got a trail 30-miler coming up in 23 days, and I can't wait. Not gonna race it, per se, but it'll nice getting back on the trails for the first time since November. I just hope the snow is gone...
Juxtatarot
Footballguy
Thanks for the post! A lot of that makes sense. I'll have to pick up that Hanson book. I hadn't heard of it before and it looks like it just came out this fall. Perhaps I'll try one of his schedules for my fall marathon. As you may have noticed, Steve, I'm currently running one of the Pfitzinger schedules and Advanced Marathoning is a very popular book in this thread. At a minimum, though, reading your post makes me feel less guilty about substituting a half marathon in place of a last 20-miler later in March!
Ned
Footballguy
That guilt is amazingly powerful, eh? Drives me crazy.
Juxtatarot
Footballguy
Yes, one time I remember stopping a recovery run at something like 4.96 miles instead of 5 and I couldn't stop thinking about it for days!
Ned
Footballguy
Hang 10
Footballguy
Ok...that's pretty bad.But I got something similar going on. I've got a decent amount of pain I'm dealing with in my left leg for the past month...mid thigh region. I'd like nothing better to take it easy on it, as my race is like 2-1/2 weeks away. Today I got a 5 mile run scheduled at a MT pace. Do I just grind it out, or just run an easy 6 or so? Either way, I'm going to regret my decision.
Juxtatarot
Footballguy
I'd still do the pace run but I'm probably not the best person to ask as I tend to do a lot of stupid stuff.Ok...that's pretty bad.But I got something similar going on. I've got a decent amount of pain I'm dealing with in my left leg for the past month...mid thigh region. I'd like nothing better to take it easy on it, as my race is like 2-1/2 weeks away. Today I got a 5 mile run scheduled at a MT pace. Do I just grind it out, or just run an easy 6 or so? Either way, I'm going to regret my decision.
Ned
Footballguy
What's MT?Where's the pain on the thigh? Outter mid thigh (left side of left thigh)?On a scale of 1-10, how much does it hurt? Does it go away when you start running or is it constant no matter what you're doing?All things being equal, better safe than sorry. Being 2.5 weeks out, you're not going to lose/gain much of anything.Ok...that's pretty bad.But I got something similar going on. I've got a decent amount of pain I'm dealing with in my left leg for the past month...mid thigh region. I'd like nothing better to take it easy on it, as my race is like 2-1/2 weeks away. Today I got a 5 mile run scheduled at a MT pace. Do I just grind it out, or just run an easy 6 or so? Either way, I'm going to regret my decision.
Hang 10
Footballguy
Mid TempoIt's my inner left thigh...I think it relates to some issues I was having with my leg/hip joint. It's probably about 3 right now...causing me a little hitch in my giddyup. It lingers for like the first couple miles of a run but it's barely noticeable once I get warm. Maybe a 1 on the pain scale at that point.What's MT?Where's the pain on the thigh? Outter mid thigh (left side of left thigh)?On a scale of 1-10, how much does it hurt? Does it go away when you start running or is it constant no matter what you're doing?All things being equal, better safe than sorry. Being 2.5 weeks out, you're not going to lose/gain much of anything.Ok...that's pretty bad.But I got something similar going on. I've got a decent amount of pain I'm dealing with in my left leg for the past month...mid thigh region. I'd like nothing better to take it easy on it, as my race is like 2-1/2 weeks away. Today I got a 5 mile run scheduled at a MT pace. Do I just grind it out, or just run an easy 6 or so? Either way, I'm going to regret my decision.
koby925
Footballguy
Steve makes a good point about backing off when you need to. It was a lesson I forgot on my first comeback attempt and I gave myself a hip fracture. But I am listening to it now. Case in point...Did my first speed work in months last night. The goal was to do 3 x Mile repeats with 3-3:30 run rest in between. I ran it on this neighborhood course I run where I knew miles 1 and 3 would be mostly flat or some downhill and mile 2 was all gradual uphill. I wanted to do this because again a) I suck at hills and b) as I get back into things, 5ks are what I am running and this simulates the worst part of the race IMO, that 2nd mile. Just ran this in trainers. Mile 1 - 5:58. Felt pretty good on this.Mile 2 - Ok this is where I think I'm learning my lesson. A quarter mile into this I realized a mile uphill wasn't going to happen...or if it did, I'd be shot for the rest of the workout and/or get hurt. So I cut it back to a half mile and I live to fight another day. Maybe next time I do .75 miles up this hill. Baby steps. Anyway, I did this in 3:02Mile 3 - Cranked it up at the end a bit, the slight downhill helped. 5:47. Overall, I'm pretty happy with this. Would I have liked to stick to the plan and do 3xMile? Sure. But with low mileage and no speedwork in months and my sucktitude on hills, it probably wasn't realistic anyway.
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I'll second this post as well. The 40 mpw on 5 days schedule I posted is what I think would be a reasonable step for you to work towards in the next 3-6 months given the information you provided. (20-25 mpw, 3 runs a week currently). Longer term you may want to run 50mpw/5-6 days per week for your next cycle, then 60mpw/6-7 runs,, then 70 etc...I need to pay more attention. I didn't realize you ran those, other than the 30K. I'm of the strong belief that your training should have around 80% of your weekly volume as endurance work. The longer your races are, the more important this becomes, obviously.It all goes back to your goals. Want to just run a decent time (for you)? You're training is fine. Want to get every last drop of potential out of you? Volume is king. If I were focusing on HM and below, I'd model my plans off of Pfitz 18/55, but add a bit more speedwork. Which is essentially what Steve mapped out above.Thanks. I guess, I don't focus on how much more training the guys I'm "competing" against are doing than me. And I've never thought that I didn't do enough endurance work. I do run 8 to 10 miles every saturday depending on the race. Past month I've ran 14, 9, 14.5 and 18.6 respectively. I do understand that's nothing when compared to the volume Jux and Grue schedule though.This is meant in a good way.... You're looking at this backwards. You're able to pop off these times with little to no endurance work. You've got way more than "average" talent.You know I mean...I still consider myself more of a weekend warrior. Sure, 1:31 is a good time for sure and I'll be happy as hell if hit that number in two weeks but hundreds of runners will finish ahead of me. I'm average when compared to real runners.Get ready for someSteve, teach me!
I'm a 20 to 25 mile a week(3 days) runner on average. Can run a half marathon in about 1:31ish. Overall pretty average runner. How do get fast like you...or take the next step?
I'll hang up and listen.
GL! You got the talent to push jux and grue, IMO.
Another vote for resting. If you cross-train and it won't aggravate the area you can try to get in a similar effort on a bike/elliptical/pool, but I too believe you don't gain fitness within 10-14 days of your goal race.What's MT?Where's the pain on the thigh? Outter mid thigh (left side of left thigh)?On a scale of 1-10, how much does it hurt? Does it go away when you start running or is it constant no matter what you're doing?All things being equal, better safe than sorry. Being 2.5 weeks out, you're not going to lose/gain much of anything.Ok...that's pretty bad.But I got something similar going on. I've got a decent amount of pain I'm dealing with in my left leg for the past month...mid thigh region. I'd like nothing better to take it easy on it, as my race is like 2-1/2 weeks away. Today I got a 5 mile run scheduled at a MT pace. Do I just grind it out, or just run an easy 6 or so? Either way, I'm going to regret my decision.
tri-man 47
Footballguy
Yeah, I was going to say that a 1:31 HM for, like, a really old guy would be awesome, but for a younger pup like you, it's pretty 'meh.'You know I mean...I still consider myself more of a weekend warrior. Sure, 1:31 is a good time for sure and I'll be happy as hell if hit that number in two weeks but hundreds of runners will finish ahead of me. I'm average when compared to real runners.Get ready for someSteve, teach me!
I'm a 20 to 25 mile a week(3 days) runner on average. Can run a half marathon in about 1:31ish. Overall pretty average runner. How do get fast like you...or take the next step?
I'll hang up and listen.
I like SteveC's emphasis on 40 miles or more and 5 days per week ...that kind of consistency and mileage just builds the endurance and the leg strength.Juxt - I thought we were adding a 5 mile cooldown after the upcoming HM so you could (along with a warmup) get your 20 miles? You could even do a mile or two of it while you wait for me to finish.
koby - good points on the speed work ..and good discipline. Keep working that mile incline!!!
Juxtatarot
Footballguy
No, but you can get your cooldown in. Just keep on running after the finish and hopefully you'll catch up to me before I get to the car.
gruecd
Footballguy
Registering tomorrow for Madison for the fall. Only $65 if you sign up from March 1-4. One hell of a bargain for a marathon these days....Plus race date is November 11, which means the heaviest training will be in September and October, generally the best time of the year to run in the Midwest.
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Sounds about right....flattish to downhill there. Mile 5 starts a 4 mile climb at 6%. By mile 6 you'll fly by and I don't see you again until beer o'clock.I'll be shooting for sub-6 this year. Have a buddy coming in from PA gunning for 5:30.'Sand said:And to think I felt good about the 1/2 hour on a spin bike I squeezed in yesterday.By the time BS&G comes around you're gonna drop me 2 miles in .To be fair I did have to suffer the day yesterday at coed heaven (U. Alabama). It was a tough, exhausting job...
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