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Ran a 10k in June (9 Viewers)
- Thread starter GStrot
- Start date
What is your lacate threshold and where have all your long runs been at heart rate wise?
Ned
Footballguy
I'd love to know this too, being I have a long term dream of a BQ. Philly has turned into my home course. The Manyunk section at mile 19-20 ####s me up every time.
Sorry, got caught up watching the news the last couple of hours, then tried to copy/paste/edit my other report into here but it won't let me.
I got halfway through typing a new report before my browser crashed.
I'll try to get a report up within the next couple of hours. Gonna grab some lunch first though.
I got halfway through typing a new report before my browser crashed.
I'll try to get a report up within the next couple of hours. Gonna grab some lunch first though.
Juxtatarot
Footballguy
LT is probably about 170 (not 100% positive). Most of my long runs are in the 130s to 140s. I realize my HR was too high for that distance.
tri-man 47
Footballguy
Congrats on a fantastic race, wilked! You got some talent to run like that on so little training, hombre.
Very well executed race.
wilked
Footballguy
Philly hills are early
http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-7EXNozyWWpQ/UKrQ3PAZXUI/AAAAAAAABcU/nNqmpr0wqWE/s1600/philadelphia+marathon+elevation+profile.png
Both about 100 foot rise. I don't remember them being anything notable, but I didn't know #### about #### then either.
Ned
Footballguy
Elevation charts are deceiving. The hill at 9 isn't a big deal since you're still fresh. Manyunk gets me every time. It doesn't look like much here, but I'd gladly run the bigger hills at the beginning vs. the shorter/steeper hills at 19-21.
Prerace: I felt great on race day to be honest. There was barely any trace of pain/discomfort/tightness in my lower legs, which was extremely encouraging as they were somewhat tight after my flight to Boston and I could even feel it a little bit on my short Saturday and Sunday runs. I did realize I forgot my gel and also managed to get in the wrong porta-potty line (it was some line to get your picture taken in front of a poster or some ####) and waste 10-15 minutes . No worries, I got to my corral 10-15 minutes before the race started and placed myself at the back. (sorry Bnb, Sand, etc... it would have been impossible for me to go with "Plan B" at this point, no one was moving to let other people get to the front anyways) Start - I realized I must have started at least in the middle of the corral last time as it took me 20 seconds to cross the starting line this time (in 2010 it was only 10s for me). I stick to my plan and stay on the left side of the road. I am getting passed left and right by runners from the 2nd corral this whole mile. Mile 1 - 6:14 - I ran this mile in 6:02 last time and had planned a 5:55-6:00. Oops. I figured I just need to run the rest of the race 0.5s/mi to make it up. Whatever.Mile 2 - 5:48 - Settled into a comfortable rhythm here, did notice that my quadriceps are a little tight already though. Weird.Mile 3 - 5:455K - 18:22To be honest I wanted to run 18-min 5Ks, but I knew I had a slow first mile so I didn't really care at this point.Mile 4 - 5:41Mile 5 - 5:54Mile 6 - 5:4910K - 36:22I did some quick math and knew I was on pace for 2:33-2:34. My quads still haven't loosened up though so I decided to just take whatever I can get while running comfortably.Mile 7 - 5:51Mile 8 - 5:57Mile 9 - 5:4615K - 54:35This split meant nothing to me. I just keep on cruising along at the same effort as I have been keeping since mile 2.Mile 10 - 5:56 - This is when I realized I was running the same pace as 3 years ago and my legs were feeling a LOT worse. I was breathing as hard as I do on a faster easy day, but my legs felt as heavy at this point as they usually do at 23-25 miles.Mile 11 - 5:56Mile 12 - 5:5720K - 73:09There was a nice downhill stretch around Wellsley that was the beginning of the end for me. My legs are tight enough at this point that I had to slow down on the downhills.Mile 13 - 6:06Halfway - 77:19First thought at this point: "Argh, I am 30s slow than my 2010 split". 2nd thought was "where is that $20 bill I usually keep in my pocket for days like this... oh that's right I packed it in my gear check bag by accident...". I decided to tone it down a notch or two and see if I can stop the legs from getting any tighter, see what kind of times my legs are giving me and come up with a new goal in a few miles.Mile 14 - 6:16 oh that's not bad.... maybe I can still break 2:40.Mile 15 - 6:26 damnit how steep are these downhills?25K - 92:50 "Hey, I can almost start doing the countdown from 10 miles to go in a little bit"Mile 16 - 6:39 this was supposed to be the fastest mile on the course with the steep downhill. I took short choppy steps to save my quads.Mile 17 - 7:59 I cruised up the first Newton Hill fine, this actually helped stretch out my quads a little. I got to the top of the hill, saw the backside and muttered FML. I decided to hop in a porta potty to take care of some business. When I came out a minute or so later my friend was running by and yelled out at me. Apparently he was tightening up too and talked me into running with him for a bit. He is a 2:46 guy shooting for a sub-2:40 so I did some quick math and realized he still at least had a small shot at a PR.Mile 18 - 7:10 I grabbed 3-4 gels and some water to pass to my buddy when he needed them. I was pretty much acting as an impromptu pacer now.30K - 1:55:35Mile 19 - 6:59 We start high-fiving kids on the side of the road and try to enjoy the race. I think I had a banana from a spectator and took some bottled water too. I thought people had barbecues along the course... could really go for a juicy burger or hot dog right now.Mile 20 - 7:25 - Really just trying to relax and enjoy the rest of the race now.Mile 21 - 7:46 We started climbing a hill at 20.3 and when we crested it I think my garmin said 20.7-20.8 My buddy and I were confused and had a quick discussion on whether we had just gone up Heartbreak or if there was a bigger hill ahead. I saw the downhill on the backside (this was where my quads/hamstring locked up on me 3 years ago) and told my friend to go. I was taking it nice and easy down this thing.35K - 2:18:53 Mile 22 - 7:35 whew, made it to the bottom without cramping this time.Mile 23 - 8:21 FML there's another downhill... screw it I am walking this one... not going to get a cramp this time. Some woman on the side of the road handed me a bottle of powerade (unopened), I thank her after taking it and sipped on it every couple of minutes until I ditched it around mile 25.Mile 24 - 8:40Think I took another 90s walking break this mile too, I am really hating downhills now.40K - 2:44:29 I had hoped to be done about 10 minutes ago, but at least I don't have that much left.Mile 25 - 7:45 An elder woman passed me somewhere this mile I think. I later found out it was 1984 Olympic champion Joan Benoit Samuelson with a new American age record. (55/Female) I remembered being offered beer on this stretch last year so I stay pretty much right next to the curb instead of running tangents. No beer offers this year though. :(Mile 26 - 7:07 No more downhills! I then wonder how close Juxt and Gruecd are behind me or maybe they had already gone by.Last .22 - 1:39 Why is this last stretch so much longer than I remembered last time? I was surprisingly okay with everything when I crossed the finish line. I did a lot of thinking and reflectingthe last 10 miles of the race and had changed my mind from "never running another marathon, or just never running another Boston" to coming back and racing this damn thing until I finish in the top 100 / broke 2:30. I remembered the promise I made to myself at mile 24 3 years ago (to quit marathons) and knew that even if I made a similar promise today there was no way I was going to stick to it. So that's it, we're doing this again in 362 days.
and also managed to get in the wrong porta-potty line (it was some line to get your picture taken in front of a poster or some ####) and waste 10-15 minutes . No worries, I got to my corral 10-15 minutes before the race started and placed myself at the back. (sorry Bnb, Sand, etc... it would have been impossible for me to go with "Plan B" at this point, no one was moving to let other people get to the front anyways) Start - I realized I must have started at least in the middle of the corral last time as it took me 20 seconds to cross the starting line this time (in 2010 it was only 10s for me). I stick to my plan and stay on the left side of the road. I am getting passed left and right by runners from the 2nd corral this whole mile. Mile 1 - 6:14 - I ran this mile in 6:02 last time and had planned a 5:55-6:00. Oops. I figured I just need to run the rest of the race 0.5s/mi to make it up. Whatever.Mile 2 - 5:48 - Settled into a comfortable rhythm here, did notice that my quadriceps are a little tight already though. Weird.Mile 3 - 5:455K - 18:22To be honest I wanted to run 18-min 5Ks, but I knew I had a slow first mile so I didn't really care at this point.Mile 4 - 5:41Mile 5 - 5:54Mile 6 - 5:4910K - 36:22I did some quick math and knew I was on pace for 2:33-2:34. My quads still haven't loosened up though so I decided to just take whatever I can get while running comfortably.Mile 7 - 5:51Mile 8 - 5:57Mile 9 - 5:4615K - 54:35This split meant nothing to me. I just keep on cruising along at the same effort as I have been keeping since mile 2.Mile 10 - 5:56 - This is when I realized I was running the same pace as 3 years ago and my legs were feeling a LOT worse. I was breathing as hard as I do on a faster easy day, but my legs felt as heavy at this point as they usually do at 23-25 miles.Mile 11 - 5:56Mile 12 - 5:5720K - 73:09There was a nice downhill stretch around Wellsley that was the beginning of the end for me. My legs are tight enough at this point that I had to slow down on the downhills.Mile 13 - 6:06Halfway - 77:19First thought at this point: "Argh, I am 30s slow than my 2010 split". 2nd thought was "where is that $20 bill I usually keep in my pocket for days like this... oh that's right I packed it in my gear check bag by accident...". I decided to tone it down a notch or two and see if I can stop the legs from getting any tighter, see what kind of times my legs are giving me and come up with a new goal in a few miles.Mile 14 - 6:16 oh that's not bad.... maybe I can still break 2:40.Mile 15 - 6:26 damnit how steep are these downhills?25K - 92:50 "Hey, I can almost start doing the countdown from 10 miles to go in a little bit"Mile 16 - 6:39 this was supposed to be the fastest mile on the course with the steep downhill. I took short choppy steps to save my quads.Mile 17 - 7:59 I cruised up the first Newton Hill fine, this actually helped stretch out my quads a little. I got to the top of the hill, saw the backside and muttered FML. I decided to hop in a porta potty to take care of some business. When I came out a minute or so later my friend was running by and yelled out at me. Apparently he was tightening up too and talked me into running with him for a bit. He is a 2:46 guy shooting for a sub-2:40 so I did some quick math and realized he still at least had a small shot at a PR.Mile 18 - 7:10 I grabbed 3-4 gels and some water to pass to my buddy when he needed them. I was pretty much acting as an impromptu pacer now.30K - 1:55:35Mile 19 - 6:59 We start high-fiving kids on the side of the road and try to enjoy the race. I think I had a banana from a spectator and took some bottled water too. I thought people had barbecues along the course... could really go for a juicy burger or hot dog right now.Mile 20 - 7:25 - Really just trying to relax and enjoy the rest of the race now.Mile 21 - 7:46 We started climbing a hill at 20.3 and when we crested it I think my garmin said 20.7-20.8 My buddy and I were confused and had a quick discussion on whether we had just gone up Heartbreak or if there was a bigger hill ahead. I saw the downhill on the backside (this was where my quads/hamstring locked up on me 3 years ago) and told my friend to go. I was taking it nice and easy down this thing.35K - 2:18:53 Mile 22 - 7:35 whew, made it to the bottom without cramping this time.Mile 23 - 8:21 FML there's another downhill... screw it I am walking this one... not going to get a cramp this time. Some woman on the side of the road handed me a bottle of powerade (unopened), I thank her after taking it and sipped on it every couple of minutes until I ditched it around mile 25.Mile 24 - 8:40Think I took another 90s walking break this mile too, I am really hating downhills now.40K - 2:44:29 I had hoped to be done about 10 minutes ago, but at least I don't have that much left.Mile 25 - 7:45 An elder woman passed me somewhere this mile I think. I later found out it was 1984 Olympic champion Joan Benoit Samuelson with a new American age record. (55/Female) I remembered being offered beer on this stretch last year so I stay pretty much right next to the curb instead of running tangents. No beer offers this year though. :(Mile 26 - 7:07 No more downhills! I then wonder how close Juxt and Gruecd are behind me or maybe they had already gone by.Last .22 - 1:39 Why is this last stretch so much longer than I remembered last time? I was surprisingly okay with everything when I crossed the finish line. I did a lot of thinking and reflectingthe last 10 miles of the race and had changed my mind from "never running another marathon, or just never running another Boston" to coming back and racing this damn thing until I finish in the top 100 / broke 2:30. I remembered the promise I made to myself at mile 24 3 years ago (to quit marathons) and knew that even if I made a similar promise today there was no way I was going to stick to it. So that's it, we're doing this again in 362 days.
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Juxtatarot
Footballguy
Too bad about the quads, Steve. Seems like everything else was clicking for you. Do you ditch the HR monitor for races?
tri-man 47
Footballguy
Curious about that too, or if a top runner like you is in tune enough to not 'need' the monitor. Anyway - amazing speed ...super impressive!
sho nuff
Footballguy
Biggest surprise once my quad was tightening up was just how bad any downhill was hurting me later in the race.
Right before going into Memphis' baseball stadium I saw my wife near the finish and she said something about it just being around the corner and a little down hill and I laughed that this did not help me much.
SFBayDuck
Footballguy
Not much too add to what others have said - just sounds like, based on your HR, you went out too hard and ended up bonking early.
Do you usually down sugar 20 minutes before? I'm with you on the 3-hours before (at least 2 for early races), but I totally avoid carbs right before the race, buying into the theory that the insulin spike triggers your body to start relying on primarily glucose from the get go at the expense of fat burning. Of course my paces are slow enough that I can rely on fat, probably not the case for you fast marathon guys.
I'm familiar with that first sentence! You're much faster than me, though! Contrats on a great race, and loved the write up.
I have a confession about the HR thing... I don't use a heart rate monitor at all. You have/will see me quote HR readings at times, but it's basically a 10-second count that I take right after runs (I do realize it slows down right away so I add 5-10 bpm to my estimates) or intervals during workouts. My high school XC coach was huge on Jack Daniels so we ran most of our workouts based on HR. There weren't enough HR monitors for the entire team so he told us to do the 10-second count and gave us ranges to hit. I got pretty familiar with running off of "feel"/"effort". While my college coach had a different training philosophy, I used the HR count as a justification for my easy run paces when I dropped my teammates.
I would like to think I have a good feel for what marathon pace effort feels like at this point and almost thought about ditching the watch for Boston, but I am a huge numbers guy and it's always good to have the data for analysis later. In fact, after joining this thread and another board in the last few months I am having some serious thoughts on getting a HR monitor as well, if nothing more than having more data to play around with when I sit down and analyze my training.
I am fairly certain I have figured out my quad issues from Boston and come up with a list of things I need to do to be better prepared. I obviously need to run on roads more, which will happen once it's warmer than 20 degrees out. I also need to do runs that focus more on muscular/leg strength development than cardiovascular fitness, as it's clear my legs are the limiting factor right now - I had to stop and walk in 7 out of the 8 marathons I finished but 6 out of those 7 times was because of leg cramps. Thinking about mixing in some cross-training as well to develop leg strength, maybe even weights. Another thing I am thinking about is running more marathons at 90-95% effort, which also helps with one of my long-term goals to become a 50-stater. I will finalize everything soon, but I may end up running 3 more marathons before 2013 ends.
A interesting development is that my wife wants to run another marathon now. She is talking smack about how she's not as weak on downhills like me though and it looks like we may both be signing up for Tucson before the week is up. Here is the course map / elevation profile for anyone interested. It'll be too late as a qualifier for Boston 2014 unfortunately. http://www.tucsonmarathon.com/event-info/course-maps/
I would like to think I have a good feel for what marathon pace effort feels like at this point and almost thought about ditching the watch for Boston, but I am a huge numbers guy and it's always good to have the data for analysis later. In fact, after joining this thread and another board in the last few months I am having some serious thoughts on getting a HR monitor as well, if nothing more than having more data to play around with when I sit down and analyze my training.
I am fairly certain I have figured out my quad issues from Boston and come up with a list of things I need to do to be better prepared. I obviously need to run on roads more, which will happen once it's warmer than 20 degrees out. I also need to do runs that focus more on muscular/leg strength development than cardiovascular fitness, as it's clear my legs are the limiting factor right now - I had to stop and walk in 7 out of the 8 marathons I finished but 6 out of those 7 times was because of leg cramps. Thinking about mixing in some cross-training as well to develop leg strength, maybe even weights. Another thing I am thinking about is running more marathons at 90-95% effort, which also helps with one of my long-term goals to become a 50-stater. I will finalize everything soon, but I may end up running 3 more marathons before 2013 ends.
A interesting development is that my wife wants to run another marathon now. She is talking smack about how she's not as weak on downhills like me though and it looks like we may both be signing up for Tucson before the week is up. Here is the course map / elevation profile for anyone interested. It'll be too late as a qualifier for Boston 2014 unfortunately. http://www.tucsonmarathon.com/event-info/course-maps/
Juxtatarot
Footballguy
I did that before the Chicago Marathon but never before my other marathons. Perhaps I shouldn't. I just thought it would be good to start off with a little caloric energy. You guys have much more knowledge than I am on nutrition issues.
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By the way, I want to take a minute to stress that while I appreciate the complements on my workouts/races I feel like I get a lot out of reading about everyone's training and races as well. For example, the HR thing is on my mind a lot the last few weeks (and in no small part due to a lot of the people on this board mentioning it). I also think running longer races may help develop my leg strength, so I'll be digging through here for BnB, Duck, and Gruecd's old race reports. Hell, I figured on Monday my quads felt the same after 10K as they usually do after 20 miles and I ran another 20 miles after that... so the prospect of running a 50-miler doesn't seem as daunting. (I just know I am going to eat these words, maybe I'll start with a 50K)
Also appreciate the support obviously. Hope I'll have more positive race reports to share in the not-too-distance future.
Also appreciate the support obviously. Hope I'll have more positive race reports to share in the not-too-distance future.
It got so twisted on Monday that I was looking forward to the uphills because they helped stretch out my quads.
I made it sound pretty bad in the race report but I still maintain the hills in Boston aren't THAT bad. My issues started way before the race. I do have the realization that when you are having a bad day you seem to notice the hills even more. I have a pretty good memory of courses and all i remembered from 2010 was flying down gradual decline after another for the first 16 miles, but on Monday I kept on seeing small climbs here and there early on and then late in the race the downhills seemed much steeper than 3 years ago.
This is a website I found that compares a lot of the popular courses. Boston is actually not that bad in terms of total elevation gain (actually less than Philly, NYC, Flying Pig, Grandma's, MCM, etc..) it's just the placement of the downhills early on that #*$( people up.
2Young2BBald
Footbaldguy
Speedguys, can I get a bit more coaching advice for my son? Since over Sanding his first 800, he has been training a lot more distance and I think is learning how to pace himself. Due to snow and rain cancelling events, there had not been another meet until yesterday. Without a chance to race and prove himself, coaches had let him know he'd likely run a JV 200 and 4x400. He was bummed, but understood. Well, a half hour before the meet, he was told he'll be the 3rd Varsity runner in the 400 and run a JV 4x400. Like the 4x800, he had never raced that distance before. Unlike the 4x800, though, he did really well yesterday finishing first for his team and 3rd overall with a 56:10. This puts him less than a second away from cracking the top 10 freshmen of the last 20 years. He then ran a split of around 58 for his leg of the 4x400. From my observation, in both 400s his form began to fail a bit going into the third turn and correcting itself as he kicked for home on the straight away. Is there a tip, trick or word of advice I can share with him to help maintain form and are there ideas why form would fail at that point (other than a lack of familiarity with that distance and fatigue)?
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SFBayDuck
Footballguy
And so it begins......
In all seriousness, we've been seeing the beginnings of the younger, fast marathon guys moving up to ultras over the past year or two. Guys like Max King (2:14:36) and most recently Sage Canaday (2:16:52) are tearing things up as they move up in distance. Both have indicated they won't tackle a 100 miler this year, but may do so in 2014. As a fan of the sport, I hope so!
beer 302
Footballguy
SFBayDuck
Footballguy
Ned
Footballguy
What a disgrace.
mr. furley
Footballguy
IvanKaramazov
Footballguy
Both parties to this transaction need to be beaten to a pulp. In particular, who the hell would buy this?
IvanKaramazov
Footballguy
Steve -- I enjoyed the report, but you're out of my league too much to provide any commentary. Damn you're fast.
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Really nice 10/6 LT run today. I had an abysmal run on Monday that I actually cut short because it was going so poorly. Given the news on Monday, I didn't want to post about it because a bonk wasn't something to complain about. But this was a much-needed bounce-back.
_______________________
Really nice 10/6 LT run today. I had an abysmal run on Monday that I actually cut short because it was going so poorly. Given the news on Monday, I didn't want to post about it because a bonk wasn't something to complain about. But this was a much-needed bounce-back.
Juxtatarot
Footballguy
What about this? http://www.ebay.com/itm/Boston-Marathon-2013-Sam-Adams-beer-opener-/130890864791?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item1e79b41897
Edit: For the others, this was one of the free items included in your bag with your bib.
Second edit: This is the stupidest thing I've ever seen: http://www.ebay.com/itm/2013-Boston-Marathon-Runners-Property-Storage-Bag-USED-/271191060612?pt=Other_Sports_Fan_Shop&hash=item3f243f3084
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Ivan good to hear you had a nice bounceback run. Just out of curiosity are you a Advanced Marathoning follower too? (I know/think Gruecd and Juxt are). Thanks for the compliment but like I said I feel that I still have much to learn about marathons and welcome advice/suggestions from runners at all levels.
Man I thought the medals / shirts / opener were bad enough... but who the hell wants to buy a gear check bag for $30? what's next? those free posters they hand out at the expo? what about the race day directions included in your package? What about a half-eaten bagel from the Athlete's Village?
Reminds me of that guy who tried to sell a bottle of water right after the Olympics for $1000 last year and claimed it was from Mo Farah's ice bath right after he won the 10,000.
Reminds me of that guy who tried to sell a bottle of water right after the Olympics for $1000 last year and claimed it was from Mo Farah's ice bath right after he won the 10,000.
Prince Myshkin
Footballguy
Congratulations to all the Boston runners! I know that several of you didn't race as well as you wanted, but know that what you did is inspiring and motivational despite the troubles. In fact, it might even be more inspirational because of the troubles!
IvanKaramazov
Footballguy
Yeah, I followed 18/55 last year when I was training for Twin Cities. I'm not doing a marathon this year, but I learned a lot for Pfitzinger's general approach to running and I incorporate a lot of that stuff into my regular routine.
beer 302
Footballguy
Guys just wanted to say thanks for the race reports. In a week when we all went from jubilation of watching some of our best race in one of the biggest races of the year, to the having our hearts ripped out by what occurred after and then the highs & lows of trying to find out everyone was alright those reports bring some sort of normalcy back to all this for me. Glad everyone came through it ok as well as your families and supporters, lotta runs coming up to support Boston and the folks that were hurt, I'm sure we'll all represent well
wilked
Footballguy
I just sent the guy a FB message (Chuck) with it. If someone stole it from him they should be made to pay
Second edit: This is the stupidest thing I've ever seen: http://www.ebay.com/itm/2013-Boston-Marathon-Runners-Property-Storage-Bag-USED-/271191060612?pt=Other_Sports_Fan_Shop&hash=item3f243f3084
Second edit: This is the stupidest thing I've ever seen: http://www.ebay.com/itm/2013-Boston-Marathon-Runners-Property-Storage-Bag-USED-/271191060612?pt=Other_Sports_Fan_Shop&hash=item3f243f3084
sho nuff
Footballguy
And with all the ebay stories we have at least some good out there...
http://www.thestar.com/news/world/2013/04/17/boston_marathon_bombings_runner_tries_to_find_couple_who_gave_her_their_medal.html
http://www.thestar.com/news/world/2013/04/17/boston_marathon_bombings_runner_tries_to_find_couple_who_gave_her_their_medal.html
Juxtatarot
Footballguy
They should let anyone with a 40K split who was prohibited from finishing have a medal if they want one. Honestly, who would be against that? If ever there is a reason to make an exception to the rules, this is it.
Also, after reading that article, I wonder how many of the ebay bidders for medals are people like her.
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koby925
Footballguy
That is disgraceful that people are selling th BM stuff.
2Young, first of all, congrats to your son and you. He is certainly a talented young man. I never ran a 400m that fast as a frosh (i think i ran 57.5 range) and by senior year I ran a couple sub 50 relay splits. If he ran a 56.10 open 400 and then came back with a 58 relay split, that tells me he has some great natural speed but has to work on endurance. Your relay splits are typically a half second faster or so since you run them from handoffs with a running start. Could also be that he's a novice and getting used to pacing. The 400m is an interesting race, especially in relays since you get sprinters moving up and mid distance guys moving down for the event. My strategy was always to maintain good form on the curves and use the end of the curve sort of like a sling shot to really get up on my toes and dig on the straightaways. Unless you are in lanes for an open or a leadoff 4x400 leg, I tried to not try to do much passing on the curves unless I really got behind someone slower. Because a 400m even more than the distance races, going wide on the curves to pass is adding distance. May not seem like a lot, but if you're running 405 or more meters instead of 400 it can make a difference. Especially if your son gets down to the times I think he can. I tended to run the 400m about even or even a negative 200/200 split. But a lot of sprinters going up tended to go nearly all out early and hold on.
For workouts, I think the 6 or 8 repeats of 200m that I had mentioned before is a good workout for the 400m. For a 400/800m guy, I'd do 200 and jog rest the 200m in between so you don't fully recover. 400m specialists, though, tend to take more rest, maybe even walk the first 100m and slow jog the 2nd 100m.
2Young, first of all, congrats to your son and you. He is certainly a talented young man. I never ran a 400m that fast as a frosh (i think i ran 57.5 range) and by senior year I ran a couple sub 50 relay splits. If he ran a 56.10 open 400 and then came back with a 58 relay split, that tells me he has some great natural speed but has to work on endurance. Your relay splits are typically a half second faster or so since you run them from handoffs with a running start. Could also be that he's a novice and getting used to pacing. The 400m is an interesting race, especially in relays since you get sprinters moving up and mid distance guys moving down for the event. My strategy was always to maintain good form on the curves and use the end of the curve sort of like a sling shot to really get up on my toes and dig on the straightaways. Unless you are in lanes for an open or a leadoff 4x400 leg, I tried to not try to do much passing on the curves unless I really got behind someone slower. Because a 400m even more than the distance races, going wide on the curves to pass is adding distance. May not seem like a lot, but if you're running 405 or more meters instead of 400 it can make a difference. Especially if your son gets down to the times I think he can. I tended to run the 400m about even or even a negative 200/200 split. But a lot of sprinters going up tended to go nearly all out early and hold on.
For workouts, I think the 6 or 8 repeats of 200m that I had mentioned before is a good workout for the 400m. For a 400/800m guy, I'd do 200 and jog rest the 200m in between so you don't fully recover. 400m specialists, though, tend to take more rest, maybe even walk the first 100m and slow jog the 2nd 100m.
beer 302
Footballguy
I posted that article on FB page this morning, nice to see there is still hope
I was having a bit of a twitter conversation with a local reporter last night that is big into the running culture, she was wondering if the runners who didn't have an opportunity to finish would be given a medal. I countered with if you were given the medal, would you take it? I know there is kind of an unwritten code amongst some that if you don't finish the race you don't wear the medal/shirt/whatever. Is this different because of the circumstances? Interesting conversation.
I told her I would consider declining it but I would come back with a ####### vengeance next year. Now that I think about that statement though, would you have a shot to come back without re-qualifying given where these folks were going to finish anyhow. That might change my mind if this was a one & done bucket list type race for me.
As for the eBay stuff, I follow along the WWII airborne community and their is a HUGE business in selling fake/reproductions/etc. The purists have a lot of issues with it as well when a deceased soldier's belongings show up on eBay without the families approval or without first giving them the opportunity to take the stuff. I know it's not a direct tie to this but it's no less despicable. In short, not only will people sell anything on eBay but there always seem to be no end of idiots buying this stuff. I get the guy selling this stuff, he's typically a dirt bag trying to make a quick buck but what really get me are the buyers. What morbid fascination fuels your need to buy a medal for a race you most likely didn't run in and one that ended in such tragedy? Be like buying steel from the World Trade Centers, just not something I understand.
sho nuff
Footballguy
For me the open 400m I would go all out and hope to hold on. Worked well for me.
For the relays...it all depended on the situation.
I usually ran 3rd leg.
If we had the lead...I went out quick on the first curve...sort of strided out the straightaway...then turned it on in the last 200m to gain as much distance as possible. Unless it was only a tiny lead...then I went balls out the whole way.
From behind...goal was always to catch the guy in front of me as quickly as possible to make him think WTF? If I got to him by the end of the back straightaway...Id stay on his heels pissing him off on the curve and then slingshot as you say and do my best to dust him on the straightaway. Unless I was just feeling it and then f it...Id pass him on the curve anyway and make him spend energy trying to keep up and pass me.
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