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Ran a 10k in June (5 Viewers)

Short-time lurker to what has quickly become my favorite thread in the FFA. I'm begrudgingly reaching out for any training advice that those more experienced/knowledgable than me are willing to provide.

Target: Half-Marathon on June 8th, sub-1:45 goal (~8min/mile pace)

Background: I'm a 36yo non-runner in the sense that I didn't run track/CC in high school, though I've been a runner in the sense that it's what I've historically done a fair amount of running to train for other sports and generally stay in shape. I had never run longer than 5-6 miles prior to completing my first marathon in 2004, with my usual run being 2-4 miles at around 7min/mile pace which is fairly fast for me. I set my sights on a goal of a sub-4 hour marathon, boinked at 19 miles, but recovered to finish in 3:59:XX. While my knees ached for so long after the marathon that I vowed I'd never run one again, what was key for me was learning through that experience that faster wasn't always better when it came to running for fitness as I obviously saw far better results when running longer distances at slower paces than shorter distances faster. Fast forward to 2012 when my wife got the itch to attempt her first marathon, so in support of her I trained with and ran alongside her during her first marathon, finishing in 4:45:XX which was under her goal of sub-11min miles. Other than those two marathons, I haven't done much in the way of races. That brings us to the half-marathon on June 8th which we just signed. I'd like to try to run at a decent (for me) pace. I was pretty ill in January/February of this year, worked out hard in March, and have been down to a couple 4-5 mile runs per week during April due to lousy weather and a bit of laziness, or a lot of laziness and a bit of lousy weather.

Advice Sought: I'm down to less than 7 weeks to train for this half, and am basically looking for any tips or advice about how to best approach these 7 weeks from a training perspective considering I've never really trained to run "faster" than I normally would for a long distance race. I don't feel like sub-8min miles is unrealistic, though I'm just not quite sure what my training program should be in order to accomplish this. Based on what I've been reading in here of late, I know for certain that I need to incorporate differing types of runs that I don't presently do...speed, tempo, etc. I've been mostly a "lock it in at 7-9min/mile pace and run X miles" kind of a runner, which I now realize isn't going to get me to where I would like to be.

Resources: I religiously wear my Garmin 305, and monitor my HR, time, and distance. That said, I'm not certain where my various HR zones are, when to train in each zone, etc. Also, if anyone has a recommended software for importing my Garmin data into on the Mac I'd like to start better tracking that again as I haven't imported any workouts since switching over from a laptop to the Mac about a year ago. Also, based on all the recommendations here I ordered the Advanced Marathoning book, which should arrive tomorrow. I doubt that I'll be able to plow through it in time to help me over the next seven weeks though, which is why I'm hoping someone here may be able to help a novice out. I tentatively have a schedule that's 6 days per week of running, where only 1 day of that is for speed work. Six days per week may be one too many, and I worry that 1 day per week of speedwork isn't enough? Any advice would be much appreciated!

By the way, I appreciate all the posters in this thread that clearly provide so much motivation to others. It's fun to follow other runners, and see how supportive so many posters are in this thread. LIke I said, easily one of my favorites to follow now.

 
Short-time lurker to what has quickly become my favorite thread in the FFA. I'm begrudgingly reaching out for any training advice that those more experienced/knowledgable than me are willing to provide. Target: Half-Marathon on June 8th, sub-1:45 goal (~8min/mile pace) Background: I'm a 36yo non-runner in the sense that I didn't run track/CC in high school, though I've been a runner in the sense that it's what I've historically done a fair amount of running to train for other sports and generally stay in shape. I had never run longer than 5-6 miles prior to completing my first marathon in 2004, with my usual run being 2-4 miles at around 7min/mile pace which is fairly fast for me. I set my sights on a goal of a sub-4 hour marathon, boinked at 19 miles, but recovered to finish in 3:59:XX. While my knees ached for so long after the marathon that I vowed I'd never run one again, what was key for me was learning through that experience that faster wasn't always better when it came to running for fitness as I obviously saw far better results when running longer distances at slower paces than shorter distances faster. Fast forward to 2012 when my wife got the itch to attempt her first marathon, so in support of her I trained with and ran alongside her during her first marathon, finishing in 4:45:XX which was under her goal of sub-11min miles. Other than those two marathons, I haven't done much in the way of races. That brings us to the half-marathon on June 8th which we just signed. I'd like to try to run at a decent (for me) pace. I was pretty ill in January/February of this year, worked out hard in March, and have been down to a couple 4-5 mile runs per week during April due to lousy weather and a bit of laziness, or a lot of laziness and a bit of lousy weather. Advice Sought: I'm down to less than 7 weeks to train for this half, and am basically looking for any tips or advice about how to best approach these 7 weeks from a training perspective considering I've never really trained to run "faster" than I normally would for a long distance race. I don't feel like sub-8min miles is unrealistic, though I'm just not quite sure what my training program should be in order to accomplish this. Based on what I've been reading in here of late, I know for certain that I need to incorporate differing types of runs that I don't presently do...speed, tempo, etc. I've been mostly a "lock it in at 7-9min/mile pace and run X miles" kind of a runner, which I now realize isn't going to get me to where I would like to be. Resources: I religiously wear my Garmin 305, and monitor my HR, time, and distance. That said, I'm not certain where my various HR zones are, when to train in each zone, etc. Also, if anyone has a recommended software for importing my Garmin data into on the Mac I'd like to start better tracking that again as I haven't imported any workouts since switching over from a laptop to the Mac about a year ago. Also, based on all the recommendations here I ordered the Advanced Marathoning book, which should arrive tomorrow. I doubt that I'll be able to plow through it in time to help me over the next seven weeks though, which is why I'm hoping someone here may be able to help a novice out. I tentatively have a schedule that's 6 days per week of running, where only 1 day of that is for speed work. Six days per week may be one too many, and I worry that 1 day per week of speedwork isn't enough? Any advice would be much appreciated! By the way, I appreciate all the posters in this thread that clearly provide so much motivation to others. It's fun to follow other runners, and see how supportive so many posters are in this thread. LIke I said, easily one of my favorites to follow now.
7 weeks isn't really much time to change up the training too much. What is your running base like today? How much have you been running a week the past month or so? Where you're at now is really the key to how much you want to push the next 4 weeks and then taper for the last 3.
 
SayWhat - Welcome aboard! You've already gotten a taste of how awesome this group is. :thumbup:

A few questions...

  • Can you give some rough estimates on what you're average weekly mileage has been this year? Understanding that Jan/Feb were kind of throw aways.
  • How many days/week have you been running this year?
  • What's the longest run you've run this year?
  • What did your marathon training look like when you paced your wife?
I'd caution against trying to play catch-up or doing a cram session. You're just asking to get hurt by piling on too much too soon. Depending on your endurance base (answers to Q1-4), I'd err on the side of caution and not do any speed work. You should be focusing on long slow runs with some tempo runs (HM pace) mixed in.

You have 6 weeks for focused training, with the last week tapering for the HM. Depending on Q3, I'd suggest building up your weekly long run to 13-15mi, having a solid mid-week MLR (Medium Long Run) of 7-9, a recovery run or two, and a tempo run. Something along these lines (can tweak based on your answers):

M - SRD (Scheduled Rest Day)

T - Tempo run (5-8mi in total length, with a warmup/cooldown period included). Tempo mileage in the middle at HM pace.

W - recovery run (3-5mi embarassingly slow/easy)

T - MLR (7-9mi)

F - SRD

S - recovery run (3-5mi)

S - Long run (build up weekly starting at 10, peaking at 15 week 6)

Since you're logging your HR data, here's a post that I've saved that has some basic HR info.

 
SayWhat - Welcome aboard! You've already gotten a taste of how awesome this group is. :thumbup:

A few questions...

  • Can you give some rough estimates on what you're average weekly mileage has been this year? Understanding that Jan/Feb were kind of throw aways.
  • How many days/week have you been running this year?
  • What's the longest run you've run this year?
  • What did your marathon training look like when you paced your wife?
I'd caution against trying to play catch-up or doing a cram session. You're just asking to get hurt by piling on too much too soon. Depending on your endurance base (answers to Q1-4), I'd err on the side of caution and not do any speed work. You should be focusing on long slow runs with some tempo runs (HM pace) mixed in.

You have 6 weeks for focused training, with the last week tapering for the HM. Depending on Q3, I'd suggest building up your weekly long run to 13-15mi, having a solid mid-week MLR (Medium Long Run) of 7-9, a recovery run or two, and a tempo run. Something along these lines (can tweak based on your answers):

M - SRD (Scheduled Rest Day)

T - Tempo run (5-8mi in total length, with a warmup/cooldown period included). Tempo mileage in the middle at HM pace.

W - recovery run (3-5mi embarassingly slow/easy)

T - MLR (7-9mi)

F - SRD

S - recovery run (3-5mi)

S - Long run (build up weekly starting at 10, peaking at 15 week 6)

Since you're logging your HR data, here's a post that I've saved that has some basic HR info.
Hang 10, simply replying to Ned's post since you're both basically asking the same questions it seems.

1) Averaged about 30miles/week in March, probably down to about 10-20 miles/week in April thus far.

2) Running 5-6 days per week in March, 2-4 days per week in April.

3) Long run this year of 9 miles, back in mid-March. Long run since then of just 6 miles. Pretty much every run this year between 4-6 miles long.

4) Marathon training with my wife consisted of 4-5 days per week, typically running anywhere from 4-6 miles on Tue/Thurs, with a MLR on Wednesday and long run on the weekend. Longest run during training was 20 miles. Would also sprinkle in some runs on my own.

I hear you on cramming over the next 7 weeks, and certainly don't want to get injured heading into the summer considering I live in the midwest and cherish being able to get outside more when the snow clears. I like the theoretical week that you've laid out far more than what I was looking at.

My questions based on the fact that I'd like to run a sub 1:45 HM:

a) Would a tempo run of 5-8 miles be something like a 1 mile warmup at ~9+min/mile pace, 3-6 miles at 8min/mile pace, and 1 mile cooldown at 9min/mile pace?

b) What pace for MLR and LR? Again, something like 9+min/mile pace?

c) How do I guage what "embarassingly slow" is for recovery runs? HR based?

Thanks for all the feedback thus far!

 
Welcome to the 10k thread! I don't know you but you should start off running at least 30 miles a week!~ Ned :lmao:
:lol: I see where you're coming from with concerns about advising 30 miles per week, but the schedule that he laid out actually looks perfectly reasonable to me and is actually less mileage than the program I was looking at following for the next 7 weeks (which seemed a bit excessive).

My only concern would be jumping into a 10 miler as my long run starting this weekend and peaking with a 15 miler. Considering my longest run above 6-7 miles was a 9 miler 5 weeks ago, would it make more sense to make my long runs over the next 6 weeks something like 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 14? Or something in those ranges?

 
SayWhat...

I think you are being a little aggressive from what I have read, and that can lead to injury / disappointment.

Is your data uploaded to connect.garmin?

If it is, can you link it? If not, can you upload it and link it? That will help us give advice.

I would run your 1/2 marathon to enjoy it, not to stretch to your max. By that I mean, run the first 5 miles at a 9 min pace, and if you are breathing very freely, speed it up to 8:30 at that point for the next 5. Once you hit 10 miles, use your judgment on what to do. That is a very basic plan, but I would play it conservative personally.

But if you give us data I can make a much more informed judgment

 
SayWhat - Welcome aboard! You've already gotten a taste of how awesome this group is. :thumbup:

A few questions...

  • Can you give some rough estimates on what you're average weekly mileage has been this year? Understanding that Jan/Feb were kind of throw aways.
  • How many days/week have you been running this year?
  • What's the longest run you've run this year?
  • What did your marathon training look like when you paced your wife?
I'd caution against trying to play catch-up or doing a cram session. You're just asking to get hurt by piling on too much too soon. Depending on your endurance base (answers to Q1-4), I'd err on the side of caution and not do any speed work. You should be focusing on long slow runs with some tempo runs (HM pace) mixed in.

You have 6 weeks for focused training, with the last week tapering for the HM. Depending on Q3, I'd suggest building up your weekly long run to 13-15mi, having a solid mid-week MLR (Medium Long Run) of 7-9, a recovery run or two, and a tempo run. Something along these lines (can tweak based on your answers):

M - SRD (Scheduled Rest Day)

T - Tempo run (5-8mi in total length, with a warmup/cooldown period included). Tempo mileage in the middle at HM pace.

W - recovery run (3-5mi embarassingly slow/easy)

T - MLR (7-9mi)

F - SRD

S - recovery run (3-5mi)

S - Long run (build up weekly starting at 10, peaking at 15 week 6)

Since you're logging your HR data, here's a post that I've saved that has some basic HR info.
Hang 10, simply replying to Ned's post since you're both basically asking the same questions it seems.

1) Averaged about 30miles/week in March, probably down to about 10-20 miles/week in April thus far.

2) Running 5-6 days per week in March, 2-4 days per week in April.

3) Long run this year of 9 miles, back in mid-March. Long run since then of just 6 miles. Pretty much every run this year between 4-6 miles long.

4) Marathon training with my wife consisted of 4-5 days per week, typically running anywhere from 4-6 miles on Tue/Thurs, with a MLR on Wednesday and long run on the weekend. Longest run during training was 20 miles. Would also sprinkle in some runs on my own.

I hear you on cramming over the next 7 weeks, and certainly don't want to get injured heading into the summer considering I live in the midwest and cherish being able to get outside more when the snow clears. I like the theoretical week that you've laid out far more than what I was looking at.

My questions based on the fact that I'd like to run a sub 1:45 HM:

a) Would a tempo run of 5-8 miles be something like a 1 mile warmup at ~9+min/mile pace, 3-6 miles at 8min/mile pace, and 1 mile cooldown at 9min/mile pace?

b) What pace for MLR and LR? Again, something like 9+min/mile pace?

c) How do I guage what "embarassingly slow" is for recovery runs? HR based?

Thanks for all the feedback thus far!
a) Yup, thats it. Although with a HM pace at 8:00, I'd suggest 9:30 or so for warmup/cooldown.

b) 9:30+. Err on the slower side of 9:30. You should be able to carry a conversation with a running partner at MLR/LR pacing.

c) You should be thinking "GD IT this is stupid. If my friends saw me now, I'd want to run and hide". 10:15 at a minimum, but slower the better IMO.

 
SayWhat...

I think you are being a little aggressive from what I have read, and that can lead to injury / disappointment.

Is your data uploaded to connect.garmin?

If it is, can you link it? If not, can you upload it and link it? That will help us give advice.

I would run your 1/2 marathon to enjoy it, not to stretch to your max. By that I mean, run the first 5 miles at a 9 min pace, and if you are breathing very freely, speed it up to 8:30 at that point for the next 5. Once you hit 10 miles, use your judgment on what to do. That is a very basic plan, but I would play it conservative personally.

But if you give us data I can make a much more informed judgment
I do agree that a 1:45 HM is an aggressive goal, although I think he's got it in him given that he bonked his way to a 3:59 first marathon. Running a 5K or 10K in a few weeks would be a great idea to get an idea of his fitness level.

 
No matter what your training is like for the next 6+ weeks, the half is going to hurt. Not like a marathon bonk, but it will likely be painful the last couple of miles.

I would run as many miles per week as you can without getting injured with no regard to speed except for one day per week with a run at 8:00 pace. I think your idea of a long run for the next few weeks is pretty close to ideal.

The toughest part is that you will really have no idea what your pace should be. 8:00 might be right or it may be way too aggressive.

Welcome to the thread! I have only been here for a couple of months but it's very cool. Great people. I have pretty much given up on Runner's World's forums where I used to hang out. This is pretty much my online running home now.

 
SayWhat...

I think you are being a little aggressive from what I have read, and that can lead to injury / disappointment.

Is your data uploaded to connect.garmin?

If it is, can you link it? If not, can you upload it and link it? That will help us give advice.

I would run your 1/2 marathon to enjoy it, not to stretch to your max. By that I mean, run the first 5 miles at a 9 min pace, and if you are breathing very freely, speed it up to 8:30 at that point for the next 5. Once you hit 10 miles, use your judgment on what to do. That is a very basic plan, but I would play it conservative personally.

But if you give us data I can make a much more informed judgment
Yeah, I agree that a 1:45 HM at this point may be slightly agressive, but I do think that it's feasible.

I guess what I'm trying to learn is the logic behind training, pacing, etc when aiming for a particular goal. Specific to your post, what makes you say that I'm being a bit agressive? My running history? My training base, or relative lack thereof, the past couple months with only 7 weeks to race day? I may very well end up going the route that you prescribed (9min/mi for first 5mi, 8:30min/mi for next 5, see how I feel), but I definitely want to push myself a bit.

I'd upload my history to connect.garmin, though 95% of my runs this year have been on the treadmill with no footpod so I don't think the data would do much good. I didn't realize that was something you could do, so I'll keep that in mind as I start to get outdoors for runs now that the weather is turning. That said, I assume that uploaded to connect.garmin allows others to see everything about your runs, including time/location? If so, doesn't that make you at all uncomfortable that others know when you're typically not home and for what periods of time (and I suppose where you live if you are able to run from your residence like I often do)? Yeah, that's my paradoid side likely overanalyzing a bit.

 
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If you normally run between 7-9 minute miles, 1:45 is not overly aggressive.

If you're already running 20 to 30 miles a week, you should have a decent base for speed and tempo work. You should probably throw in some intervals once a week and pick a day and run 5-6 tempo miles at your goal HM pace.

You got this. :thumbup:

 
mr. furley said:
gruecd's handsome visage was all over my tv this morning :wub:
For what? The pre-race "ceremony" in Oshkosh on Sunday?
mr. furley said:
I'm thinking she's in pretty good shape for her sub-2-hour goal at Green Bay next month. She's gonna smoke Furley... ;)
now i have to shave about 7-8 minutes off my total time in 4 weeks :(
Maybe more than that. I'm thinking she's in shape to go 1:57, plus or minus 5 minutes. I'll be out there on the bike cheering her...and taunting you for getting beat by a girl who's only been running since November. ;)
oh, just #### this new quote function straight to hell.

yeah, you were on a podium wearing the Boston jacket while some guy was speaking.

also, i feel great shame being beat my someone who has been running for 6 months but i would rather live with shame than die in a heap on Potts

 
Speedguys/iCoaches, quick update on my son, he cracked the top 10 freshmen since 1990 (the time they began capturing these by grade) in the 400, running a 54.8 tonight. He is now #7 on the list only 2 meets into the season. He held his form very well throughout and did use the sling shot to his advantage. Followed it up with a 55.9 lead leg for the second 4x400 relay team. Now, next up, I need some talking points to get him to use blocks for the 400. He has had some trouble with them and fears it'll hold him back. I told him tonight he is building for 4-years and needs to get used of them for the future (after huge hugs and celebrating his 400 time, of course).

As for me, 2,500 yard swim last night and now I am in shut down mode until Saturday's trail 1/2.

 
SayWhat? - welcome!!!

My :2cents: : 7 weeks until the race means you have 5 weeks for productive training. You won't improve over those final two weeks. For the long runs, I'd suggest 8, 10, 7, 10, 12 over those five weeks. Real slow running helps improve your aerobic capacity, but I don't think you'll get a lot of that over this short a time period. So my thought on pacing is, maybe, 8:45-9:00/mile for your 8:00/mile race goal. Maybe pick up the tempo for the last mile or two of the long runs, if it feels OK, to simulate race pacing when tired. My other thought is to convert some of those 4-6 milers to something less, but at a harder tempo. I.e., get in some sub-8:00 pacing so your legs are used to working harder and faster than race pace. That could be an occasional mile at sub-8:00 pace, or some repeat half-miles or quarter-miles at a good clip. Another approach, discussed around here lately, is to add some striders to your regular runs ...just pick up the pace strong for short stretches over the latter part of the run. Be sure to get your rest days. If you push harder these next two weeks, then back off with an easier week before another two week push.

 
Thats awesome 2Young.

As for blocks...I feel his pain...hated them so very much. Im no help there other than to just keep working with them and getting used to them.

 
Speedguys/iCoaches, quick update on my son, he cracked the top 10 freshmen since 1990 (the time they began capturing these by grade) in the 400, running a 54.8 tonight. He is now #7 on the list only 2 meets into the season. He held his form very well throughout and did use the sling shot to his advantage. Followed it up with a 55.9 lead leg for the second 4x400 relay team. Now, next up, I need some talking points to get him to use blocks for the 400. He has had some trouble with them and fears it'll hold him back. I told him tonight he is building for 4-years and needs to get used of them for the future (after huge hugs and celebrating his 400 time, of course).

As for me, 2,500 yard swim last night and now I am in shut down mode until Saturday's trail 1/2.
I have no idea how fast these short races are, but it sounds like he's getting better quick. He's only 11 seconds off of Michael Johnson - I'm sure he'll have that in no time!

Nice swim, too. And remind me (us) what run this is? My memory is not much better than a three year old.

-----

On my end a great ride tonight. My legs felt like mush from the 101 on Sunday, but they were turning over ridiculously well. (BnB, you'll love this) For the useful ride (18 miles in 51 minutes) I averaged 250w with 268w normalized. I think those are the biggest numbers I've put up on that ride. Power records reset from about 30-50 minutes.

 
Speedguys/iCoaches, quick update on my son, he cracked the top 10 freshmen since 1990 (the time they began capturing these by grade) in the 400, running a 54.8 tonight. He is now #7 on the list only 2 meets into the season. He held his form very well throughout and did use the sling shot to his advantage. Followed it up with a 55.9 lead leg for the second 4x400 relay team. Now, next up, I need some talking points to get him to use blocks for the 400. He has had some trouble with them and fears it'll hold him back. I told him tonight he is building for 4-years and needs to get used of them for the future (after huge hugs and celebrating his 400 time, of course).

As for me, 2,500 yard swim last night and now I am in shut down mode until Saturday's trail 1/2.
Here are a couple of good articles I found regarding starting blocks. Note the first one starts with a cautionary note about young/new sprinters and the blocks!

http://www.athletesacceleration.com/startingblocks.html

http://track.isport.com/track-guides/how-to-use-starting-blocks

Do well on Saturday! I trust some of the boys are joining you ...tell 'em I said hi! Even Edgar. My latest plan is to stick with the DWD relay (since I now want to requalify for Boston with an early-September marathon), and I look forward to that.

eta: You mentioned that R doesn't like to think when he runs. However, to master the 400m (and the blocks), it seems like careful training, planning, and yes, thinking are necessary aspects. Maybe he can save the 'non-thinking' for cross-country season, and 'turn the brain on' for the track work.

 
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I tried my first "hill" work out today. I was on the treadmill so I set it at an incline of 2 at a 10:00 pace for three miles. My regular run is at 9:22 pace with incline at 1.

I am not sure if I am doing this right but I figure I could slowly raise that incline every workout. I plan on doing this every other week. I will be doing intervals on the other weeks. Does this sound reasonable? My goal is to maybe get faster and for sure be able to take on some hills this fall.

 
I tried my first "hill" work out today. I was on the treadmill so I set it at an incline of 2 at a 10:00 pace for three miles. My regular run is at 9:22 pace with incline at 1.

I am not sure if I am doing this right but I figure I could slowly raise that incline every workout. I plan on doing this every other week. I will be doing intervals on the other weeks. Does this sound reasonable? My goal is to maybe get faster and for sure be able to take on some hills this fall.
Instead of setting it at a specific incline all the way, I like some of the "rolling hills" options on the treadmill. I'll stay at a certain speed but the incline will vary from 0% to 6.5%. I like the varying effort and how it will get your heart rate up on the hills and then you can ease through the flats.

 
Not a running moment with my son...but proud of his speed tonight nonetheless...undefeated car in his cub scout pinewood derby...smoked everyone.

 
Sand said:
2Young2BBald said:
Speedguys/iCoaches, quick update on my son, he cracked the top 10 freshmen since 1990 (the time they began capturing these by grade) in the 400, running a 54.8 tonight. He is now #7 on the list only 2 meets into the season. He held his form very well throughout and did use the sling shot to his advantage. Followed it up with a 55.9 lead leg for the second 4x400 relay team. Now, next up, I need some talking points to get him to use blocks for the 400. He has had some trouble with them and fears it'll hold him back. I told him tonight he is building for 4-years and needs to get used of them for the future (after huge hugs and celebrating his 400 time, of course).

As for me, 2,500 yard swim last night and now I am in shut down mode until Saturday's trail 1/2.
I have no idea how fast these short races are, but it sounds like he's getting better quick. He's only 11 seconds off of Michael Johnson - I'm sure he'll have that in no time!

Nice swim, too. And remind me (us) what run this is? My memory is not much better than a three year old.

-----

On my end a great ride tonight. My legs felt like mush from the 101 on Sunday, but they were turning over ridiculously well. (BnB, you'll love this) For the useful ride (18 miles in 51 minutes) I averaged 250w with 268w normalized. I think those are the biggest numbers I've put up on that ride. Power records reset from about 30-50 minutes.
Great work Sand, especially coming off a 101.

I'm going to get back on the bike this weekend with an event. Hope I don't crash out anyone.

 
SayWhat? said:
SayWhat...

I think you are being a little aggressive from what I have read, and that can lead to injury / disappointment.

Is your data uploaded to connect.garmin?

If it is, can you link it? If not, can you upload it and link it? That will help us give advice.

I would run your 1/2 marathon to enjoy it, not to stretch to your max. By that I mean, run the first 5 miles at a 9 min pace, and if you are breathing very freely, speed it up to 8:30 at that point for the next 5. Once you hit 10 miles, use your judgment on what to do. That is a very basic plan, but I would play it conservative personally.

But if you give us data I can make a much more informed judgment
Yeah, I agree that a 1:45 HM at this point may be slightly agressive, but I do think that it's feasible.

I guess what I'm trying to learn is the logic behind training, pacing, etc when aiming for a particular goal. Specific to your post, what makes you say that I'm being a bit agressive? My running history? My training base, or relative lack thereof, the past couple months with only 7 weeks to race day? I may very well end up going the route that you prescribed (9min/mi for first 5mi, 8:30min/mi for next 5, see how I feel), but I definitely want to push myself a bit.

I'd upload my history to connect.garmin, though 95% of my runs this year have been on the treadmill with no footpod so I don't think the data would do much good. I didn't realize that was something you could do, so I'll keep that in mind as I start to get outdoors for runs now that the weather is turning. That said, I assume that uploaded to connect.garmin allows others to see everything about your runs, including time/location? If so, doesn't that make you at all uncomfortable that others know when you're typically not home and for what periods of time (and I suppose where you live if you are able to run from your residence like I often do)? Yeah, that's my paradoid side likely overanalyzing a bit.
Welcome aboard.

1:45 doesn't seem aggressive. I'd rather go out hard and blow up than treat a race like a training run. What would be helpful would be to run a 5k pedal to the floor and get that hr data for the last 10 minutes. With that info you'll be able to hr pace the 1/2.

 
First activity last night since the ultra. Went out with my son to do some speed work. He started with a 1 mile run at 5:46 which was a pr for him. I then joined him for some 1/4 miles. Times for me were 1:22, 1:26, 1:32, and 1:18. The 1:22 and 1:18 were new prs. Legs felt pretty good and my hip is getting better.

We're doing a duathlon relay this weekend.

 
First activity last night since the ultra. Went out with my son to do some speed work. He started with a 1 mile run at 5:46 which was a pr for him. I then joined him for some 1/4 miles. Times for me were 1:22, 1:26, 1:32, and 1:18. The 1:22 and 1:18 were new prs. Legs felt pretty good and my hip is getting better.

We're doing a duathlon relay this weekend.
:thumbup:

Can't believe you're already back doing speedwork. Nice job.

 
Finally found the results from my first race (5k) of the year. Apparently I was first in my group! Unfortunately there were only 5 penis people in my group :lmao: finished 31/205 overall. 24.55. This was the inaugural race and it was pretty small.

As you know I'm new to running and races and made the mistake of getting pretty sauced the day before with the FIL while fixing my water heater. Have another race this Sunday and will definitely lay off the liquor

 
Annyong said:
Finally found the results from my first race (5k) of the year. Apparently I was first in my group! Unfortunately there were only 5 penis people in my group :lmao: finished 31/205 overall. 24.55. This was the inaugural race and it was pretty small.

As you know I'm new to running and races and made the mistake of getting pretty sauced the day before with the FIL while fixing my water heater. Have another race this Sunday and will definitely lay off the liquor
I advise against changing anything. You won your age group! What more do you want out of a race? If anything you should get more DRINK MORE before the race.

 
All, thanks for the warm welcome and all of the great advice. I'm extremely competetive by nature, so I'm looking forward to pushing myself to hit that 1:45 target for my first half marathon. I've tried to incorporate a bit of everything people have said, and come up with the following plan for the next 6.5 weeks. I'm on board with what BNB said in that I'd rather push myself a bit than treat it like a more mildly difficult training run, though I understand that I shouldn't push myself so hard that I get injured. Though I may not be able to make an actual race fit my schedule, I'll try to get a hard 5K in over the next couple weeks and post my data if that data would help assess where I'm at or what I should be shooting for. Well onto the plan I devised based on the FBG's feedback. For my 8min/mile goal for the HM, I plan to run Tempo runs at 8min pace with a 1 mile warmup and 1 mile cooldown. I plan to run EZ runs at a 10-10:30min pace, with MLR/LR's at a 9-9:30min pace. Depending upon how training goes, I'll probably approach 1-2 of the MLR runs with a bit faster pace, some repeats, etc, just to push myself a bit and see how I feel. Weekly mileage for the 6 weeks ends up being between 30-36 miles per week. Please let me know if you see any flaws in this plan. Thanks again! Here's my tentative schedule:

Day Date Miles Type

Wed 24-Apr 4 EZ

Thu 25-Apr 7 MLR

Fri 26-Apr

Sat 27-Apr 4 EZ

Sun 28-Apr 8 LR

Mon 29-Apr

Tue 30-Apr 6 TEMPO

Wed 1-May 4 EZ

Thu 2-May 7 MLR

Fri 3-May

Sat 4-May 4 EZ

Sun 5-May 10 LR

Mon 6-May

Tue 7-May 7 TEMPO

Wed 8-May 4 EZ

Thu 9-May 7 MLR

Fri 10-May

Sat 11-May 4 EZ

Sun 12-May 8 LR

Mon 13-May

Tue 14-May 8 TEMPO

Wed 15-May 4 EZ

Thu 16-May 8 MLR

Fri 17-May

Sat 18-May 4 EZ

Sun 19-May 10 LR

Mon 20-May

Tue 21-May 7 TEMPO

Wed 22-May 4 EZ

Thu 23-May 9 MLR

Fri 24-May

Sat 25-May 4 EZ

Sun 26-May 12 LR

Mon 27-May

Tue 28-May 6 TEMPO

Wed 29-May 4 EZ

Thu 30-May 7 MLR

Fri 31-May

Sat 1-Jun 4 EZ

Sun 2-Jun 12 LR

Mon 3-Jun

Tue 4-Jun 5 TEMPO

Wed 5-Jun 4 EZ

Thu 6-Jun 3 EZ

Fri 7-Jun

Sat 8-Jun 13.1 HM

 
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Hey, guys. My friend Tim is a survivor of stage 4 brain cancer and is trying to gain entry to Kona via the "Kona Inspired" program. If you could take a quick minute to check out his video and vote, it would be greatly appreciated. Here's the link, and his video is the one called "Runnin' Down A Dream." Here's a link to an article about him that ran in the local paper a few weeks ago. Pretty inspirational story, and one of the strongest, nicest, most courageous people I know.

Thanks in advance!

 
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Welcome to the group Saywhat! There are a lot of folks that can help in here with the training and data analysis. I am more of a run by feel guy but get into numbers on speedwork.

Triman, those are some happy mofos in those pictures. I don't know if I've ever looked that happy in a race.

2Young, holy cow, that's great! When you say top 10 freshmen, you mean from his high school? We will all get to live vicariously for the next 4 years and perhaps beyond. Good stuff. Any plans to do an 800 again this spring? If I recall correctly, he had a rough go of one in winter track. But with his speed and endurance base from fall he should be able to get in the 2:10 range this spring. What kind of daily training is he doing? Working with sprinters or 400/800 guys? The coming out of blocks is a mental thing for a lot of people. You swim, so I assume he does or has. Give him the analogy of pushing off the wall in the pool. It's just that little leverage you need to get a burst out of the start.

 
It's going to be crazy fun when LittleYoung runs state cross-country in a few years and a bunch of internet guys all show up to wildly cheer him on. :clap: :clap: :clap:

 
It's going to be crazy fun when LittleYoung runs state cross-country in a few years and a bunch of internet guys all show up to wildly cheer him on. :clap: :clap: :clap:
Wait. 2Young finally changed his name to more accurately describe his stature?? And isn't he kinda old to be running cross-country?? ;)

 
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Hey, guys. My friend Tim is a survivor of stage 4 brain cancer and is trying to gain entry to Kona via the "Kona Inspired" program. If you could take a quick minute to check out his video and vote, it would be greatly appreciated. Here's the link, and his video is the one called "Runnin' Down A Dream." Here's a link to an article about him that ran in the local paper a few weeks ago. Pretty inspirational story, and one of the strongest, nicest, most courageous people I know.

Thanks in advance!
12-18mos - WHOA. I got chills.

:tebow: Tim

Voted.

ETA - direct link to his video here -> http://bit.ly/YGdbTL

 
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As usual a lot of great stuff around here.

Tri, belated congrats on the beastly 15-miler.

2young2bbald, awesome work for your son! Reckon we'll see a sub-50 out of him in the next year or two.

Hang- Nice to see you rounding into form.

Sand- The cycling stuff is beyond me too but I know PRs are always good.

Prince- The first time you do 10 is always special. Congrats man.

Jux, Prosopopis- Jack Daniels Running Formula has a pretty good section on running on inclines on treadmills and how the efforts translate. (p. 137 in the 2nd edition). I feel like those numbers may even be a little conservative as they seem to imply that a 1-1.5 incline on a treadmill is equivalent to running on flat ground.

To give you an idea of the effects of inclines. For running at 6.0 mph (10 min/mile) on the treadmill.

2.9 degree incline -> 9:19/mile effort

4.8 degree incline -> 8:15/mile effort

6.6 degree incline -> 7:24/mile effort

8.4 degree incline -> 6:44/mile effort

10.2 degree incline -> 6:11/mile effort.

Or speedwork equivalents when your treadmill tops out at 10 mph (6min/mile)

2.6 degree incline -> 5:43/mile effort

3.6 degree incline -> 5:19/mile effort

4.6 degree incline -> 4:59/mile effort

5.5 degree incline -> 4:42/mile effort

8.5 degree incline -> 4:01/mile effort

etc...

 
Ned, on 24 Apr 2013 - 13:42, said:

gruecd, on 24 Apr 2013 - 11:30, said:

Hey, guys. My friend Tim is a survivor of stage 4 brain cancer and is trying to gain entry to Kona via the "Kona Inspired" program. If you could take a quick minute to check out his video and vote, it would be greatly appreciated. Here's the link, and his video is the one called "Runnin' Down A Dream." Here's a link to an article about him that ran in the local paper a few weeks ago. Pretty inspirational story, and one of the strongest, nicest, most courageous people I know.

Thanks in advance!
12-18mos - WHOA. I got chills. :tebow: Tim

Voted.

ETA - direct link to his video here -> http://bit.ly/YGdbTL
Vote button is in the bottom left hand corner of the viewer.
 
Hey, guys. My friend Tim is a survivor of stage 4 brain cancer and is trying to gain entry to Kona via the "Kona Inspired" program. If you could take a quick minute to check out his video and vote, it would be greatly appreciated. Here's the link, and his video is the one called "Runnin' Down A Dream." Here's a link to an article about him that ran in the local paper a few weeks ago. Pretty inspirational story, and one of the strongest, nicest, most courageous people I know.

Thanks in advance!
Voted - sure hope he gets in.. Very inspirational story

 
Sand said:
2Young2BBald said:
Speedguys/iCoaches, quick update on my son, he cracked the top 10 freshmen since 1990 (the time they began capturing these by grade) in the 400, running a 54.8 tonight. He is now #7 on the list only 2 meets into the season. He held his form very well throughout and did use the sling shot to his advantage. Followed it up with a 55.9 lead leg for the second 4x400 relay team. Now, next up, I need some talking points to get him to use blocks for the 400. He has had some trouble with them and fears it'll hold him back. I told him tonight he is building for 4-years and needs to get used of them for the future (after huge hugs and celebrating his 400 time, of course).

As for me, 2,500 yard swim last night and now I am in shut down mode until Saturday's trail 1/2.
I have no idea how fast these short races are, but it sounds like he's getting better quick. He's only 11 seconds off of Michael Johnson - I'm sure he'll have that in no time!

Nice swim, too. And remind me (us) what run this is? My memory is not much better than a three year old.

-----

On my end a great ride tonight. My legs felt like mush from the 101 on Sunday, but they were turning over ridiculously well. (BnB, you'll love this) For the useful ride (18 miles in 51 minutes) I averaged 250w with 268w normalized. I think those are the biggest numbers I've put up on that ride. Power records reset from about 30-50 minutes.
Its my annual trail 1/2. It'll be my 6th and I have little doubt it will be my slowest. No :ptts: I am just not trained like I have been in the past and I am carrying way too much weight for this time of year. I am still looking forward to it. As TM can attest, this is a beautiful (and brutal) trail. AND, I won a FB promotion, getting VIP tent access. I'll be able to stretch, chill and walk out and drop in my wave. Even better, the port-a-john situation at this event in awful. No worries for me, there is a VIP port-a-john :headbang:

 
2Young2BBald said:
Speedguys/iCoaches, quick update on my son, he cracked the top 10 freshmen since 1990 (the time they began capturing these by grade) in the 400, running a 54.8 tonight. He is now #7 on the list only 2 meets into the season. He held his form very well throughout and did use the sling shot to his advantage. Followed it up with a 55.9 lead leg for the second 4x400 relay team. Now, next up, I need some talking points to get him to use blocks for the 400. He has had some trouble with them and fears it'll hold him back. I told him tonight he is building for 4-years and needs to get used of them for the future (after huge hugs and celebrating his 400 time, of course).

As for me, 2,500 yard swim last night and now I am in shut down mode until Saturday's trail 1/2.
Here are a couple of good articles I found regarding starting blocks. Note the first one starts with a cautionary note about young/new sprinters and the blocks!

http://www.athletesacceleration.com/startingblocks.html

http://track.isport.com/track-guides/how-to-use-starting-blocks

Do well on Saturday! I trust some of the boys are joining you ...tell 'em I said hi! Even Edgar. My latest plan is to stick with the DWD relay (since I now want to requalify for Boston with an early-September marathon), and I look forward to that.

eta: You mentioned that R doesn't like to think when he runs. However, to master the 400m (and the blocks), it seems like careful training, planning, and yes, thinking are necessary aspects. Maybe he can save the 'non-thinking' for cross-country season, and 'turn the brain on' for the track work.
Only Pete is joining me. Both Mark & Edgar are anti distance. Glad you are with us for the relay, but we can go to the bullpen if you decide to up to the 50K.

 
Welcome to the group Saywhat! There are a lot of folks that can help in here with the training and data analysis. I am more of a run by feel guy but get into numbers on speedwork.

Triman, those are some happy mofos in those pictures. I don't know if I've ever looked that happy in a race.

2Young, holy cow, that's great! When you say top 10 freshmen, you mean from his high school? We will all get to live vicariously for the next 4 years and perhaps beyond. Good stuff. Any plans to do an 800 again this spring? If I recall correctly, he had a rough go of one in winter track. But with his speed and endurance base from fall he should be able to get in the 2:10 range this spring. What kind of daily training is he doing? Working with sprinters or 400/800 guys? The coming out of blocks is a mental thing for a lot of people. You swim, so I assume he does or has. Give him the analogy of pushing off the wall in the pool. It's just that little leverage you need to get a burst out of the start.
Yes, top 10 freshmen from his school (first freshman to crack the list since 2007). He will be running the 4X800 this Friday at a relay event. He thought he might run a JV 800 last night, but they shifted him to the 4x400 JV running the first leg. Based on his split, he is less than a second from the low end of the #1 varsity team. He has shifted fully to working with the 400/800 distance guys in practice and it sounds as though they are doing something structured like you've mentioned before. Day before yesterday's meet he stated they they did a mellow three miles of what I would compare to intervals totaling 3 miles. On other days, he has done 4 mile tempo type runs. He does not like the pool, but I like the analogy. He really likes the distance coach and I suggested he work with him after practice on the blocks. Its tough to get one-on-one with a team of 70 boys during practice.

 

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