Ran a 10k in June (9 Viewers)

[Alex P Keaton]

I got in another 11 today. Feeling very good about the HM in two weeks. I saw someone a couple pages back talking about 25 miles a week being light so now that has me worried I might not have trained hard enough. My current routine has been 3 days a week at 4-5 miles and then a long run on Sunday. 24 miles this week.

You should be in very good shape

 

[ChiefD]

Also, go out and run a few miles as fast as you can handle. You want to figure out about where you max heart rate is. Those age based formula don't work well for everyone.

I did this the other day, and I ran about as hard as I could for about 2 miles, which included some inclines as well. The max heart rate I could get to was 182. So I'm assuming I'm subtracting my age (44) from this, which would be 138.

I'm finding it extremely difficult to hit that number. Downhills or flat ground I can, but the pacing is so dang slow. The only way I can hit it on an uphill is if I darn near walk.

Is this normal, and just part of the process? If so, really frustrating. But I'm guessing beneficial, based on the reading I've done here and across the web.

I suspect you can do your easy running a little higher than 138. Many of the experts state easy running should be at about 75% of max. If you got to 182 in a training run like that I suspect you're true max might be in the high 180s. It's just so hard to reach your true max. Maybe 142 or so would be a good target. Just make sure it feels easy -- you should be able to carry on a conversation and your breathing shouldn't be labored.

Ok, thanks, and you might be right. It seems like my comfort zone is right around 145-150. I can pretty much maintain that throughout my runs. So I'll shoot for the 142 ish range for awhile.

 

[tri-man 47]

Whoa ..Steve.

 

[Ned]

Also, go out and run a few miles as fast as you can handle. You want to figure out about where you max heart rate is. Those age based formula don't work well for everyone.

I did this the other day, and I ran about as hard as I could for about 2 miles, which included some inclines as well. The max heart rate I could get to was 182. So I'm assuming I'm subtracting my age (44) from this, which would be 138.

I'm finding it extremely difficult to hit that number. Downhills or flat ground I can, but the pacing is so dang slow. The only way I can hit it on an uphill is if I darn near walk.

Is this normal, and just part of the process? If so, really frustrating. But I'm guessing beneficial, based on the reading I've done here and across the web.

I suspect you can do your easy running a little higher than 138. Many of the experts state easy running should be at about 75% of max. If you got to 182 in a training run like that I suspect you're true max might be in the high 180s. It's just so hard to reach your true max. Maybe 142 or so would be a good target. Just make sure it feels easy -- you should be able to carry on a conversation and your breathing shouldn't be labored.

Ok, thanks, and you might be right. It seems like my comfort zone is right around 145-150. I can pretty much maintain that throughout my runs. So I'll shoot for the 142 ish range for awhile.

Your max is definitely higher than 182 if you ran "about" as hard as you could. You need to be falling over and dry heaving at the end to hit your max.

145-150 is the high-end range for Long/Slow runs for a 195ish Max. I'd recommend trying to stay under 140. It won't be easy at first, but you'll adapt quickly. FUBAR recently just went through this.

 

[BassNBrew]

SFDuck - I met the Hoka rep last week. If you are thinking about another pair, hold off until summer if at all possible. Major changes coming. The new Stinson rocks and the price on all products is coming down $10. The upper end Mafate I saw in the works had an aggressive tread but they've used a material that is basically bomb proof. He said you could run with it on the road and wouldn't hurt the tread. Most of the new models are coming out in June and July. He had a suit case with samples of everything they have and will have.

 

[gruecd]

JFC Steve!

 

[sho nuff]

Whoa ..Steve.

Yeah...what the Doc said.

 

[Annyong]

I got in another 11 today. Feeling very good about the HM in two weeks. I saw someone a couple pages back talking about 25 miles a week being light so now that has me worried I might not have trained hard enough. My current routine has been 3 days a week at 4-5 miles and then a long run on Sunday. 24 miles this week.

I think I maxed out around 30 miles/week before running a HM last year. Still ran 1:50.40. You should easily beat that. Whats your goal?

 

[SteveC702]

Thanks guys. Like worrieking said the conditions weren't optimal, but I was in much better shape than when I ran my old PR that there was no way I wasn't walking out of there without a new PR unless I did something ######edly stupid. My wife and I met with a lot of our friends who either lived near there or came down for the race, and I got to experiment with some things which I think will really help going into Boston as well, so it was a good weekend overall.

 

[Ned]

Thanks guys. Like worrieking said the conditions weren't optimal, but I was in much better shape than when I ran my old PR that there was no way I wasn't walking out of there without a new PR unless I did something ######edly stupid. My wife and I met with a lot of our friends who either lived near there or came down for the race, and I got to experiment with some things which I think will really help going into Boston as well, so it was a good weekend overall.

DETAILS!!!!

 

[ChiefD]

Also, go out and run a few miles as fast as you can handle. You want to figure out about where you max heart rate is. Those age based formula don't work well for everyone.

I did this the other day, and I ran about as hard as I could for about 2 miles, which included some inclines as well. The max heart rate I could get to was 182. So I'm assuming I'm subtracting my age (44) from this, which would be 138.

I'm finding it extremely difficult to hit that number. Downhills or flat ground I can, but the pacing is so dang slow. The only way I can hit it on an uphill is if I darn near walk.

Is this normal, and just part of the process? If so, really frustrating. But I'm guessing beneficial, based on the reading I've done here and across the web.

I suspect you can do your easy running a little higher than 138. Many of the experts state easy running should be at about 75% of max. If you got to 182 in a training run like that I suspect you're true max might be in the high 180s. It's just so hard to reach your true max. Maybe 142 or so would be a good target. Just make sure it feels easy -- you should be able to carry on a conversation and your breathing shouldn't be labored.

Ok, thanks, and you might be right. It seems like my comfort zone is right around 145-150. I can pretty much maintain that throughout my runs. So I'll shoot for the 142 ish range for awhile.

Your max is definitely higher than 182 if you ran "about" as hard as you could. You need to be falling over and dry heaving at the end to hit your max.

145-150 is the high-end range for Long/Slow runs for a 195ish Max. I'd recommend trying to stay under 140. It won't be easy at first, but you'll adapt quickly. FUBAR recently just went through this.

Ok. Judging by the fall and puke factor, I would now say I did not hit my max.

Looks like under 140 is the place to be. I'll keep working at it. Thanks for the wisdom.

 

[FUBAR]

:snip: FUBAR recently just went through this.

I'm glad to have done it, but also glad to be past the pure building phase. Lessons have been learned - namely that I didn't lose much if any top end speed despite running slow; that I added significant mileage without any injuries; and I think I'll be better off in the training phase keeping some runs slower than I had in the past.

Also, having a good HR monitor is worth the money. I'll be buying a better one next year. For now, I'll be doing more PE than just looking at the monitor and slowing down even if I feel like it's easy. Doing this for 2.5 months has helped teach me what slow really feels like - and there's a difference between "comfortable" and "easy"

 

[worrierking]

Thanks guys. Like worrieking said the conditions weren't optimal, but I was in much better shape than when I ran my old PR that there was no way I wasn't walking out of there without a new PR unless I did something ######edly stupid. My wife and I met with a lot of our friends who either lived near there or came down for the race, and I got to experiment with some things which I think will really help going into Boston as well, so it was a good weekend overall.

DETAILS!!!!

Yeah, Steve, no getting out of this one without a complete write-up.

 

[SteveC702]

I logged on yesterday after the race and the first thing I saw was Koby's great news. Everything else is kind of a blur now. I'll see if anything comes to me in the next few days.

 

[BassNBrew]

I logged on yesterday after the race and the first thing I saw was Koby's great news. Everything else is kind of a blur now. I'll see if anything comes to me in the next few days.

Kicking butt and taking every name sans two comes to mind.

 

[Ned]

:snip: FUBAR recently just went through this.

I'm glad to have done it, but also glad to be past the pure building phase. Lessons have been learned - namely that I didn't lose much if any top end speed despite running slow; that I added significant mileage without any injuries; and I think I'll be better off in the training phase keeping some runs slower than I had in the past.

You don't know how awesome it is to see someone else figure this out. Congrats!

 

[ChiefD]

:snip: FUBAR recently just went through this.

I'm glad to have done it, but also glad to be past the pure building phase. Lessons have been learned - namely that I didn't lose much if any top end speed despite running slow; that I added significant mileage without any injuries; and I think I'll be better off in the training phase keeping some runs slower than I had in the past.

Also, having a good HR monitor is worth the money. I'll be buying a better one next year. For now, I'll be doing more PE than just looking at the monitor and slowing down even if I feel like it's easy. Doing this for 2.5 months has helped teach me what slow really feels like - and there's a difference between "comfortable" and "easy"

:snip: FUBAR recently just went through this.

I'm glad to have done it, but also glad to be past the pure building phase. Lessons have been learned - namely that I didn't lose much if any top end speed despite running slow; that I added significant mileage without any injuries; and I think I'll be better off in the training phase keeping some runs slower than I had in the past.

You don't know how awesome it is to see someone else figure this out. Congrats!

Yeah, that's one thing I've definitely noticed after only having the HM for about 10 days: my legs feel a heck of a lot better than I remember. And my runs are just a hell of a lot more fun: I feel more refreshed at the end without completely burning out toward the tail end of the run. As the weeks progress, I can see my mileage increasing because it just doesn't hurt as bad.

 

[Sand]

I logged on yesterday after the race and the first thing I saw was Koby's great news. Everything else is kind of a blur now. I'll see if anything comes to me in the next few days.

I'm gonna go with "it went by so damn fast how can I be expected to remember anything?"

 

[FUBAR]

A buddy sent me Sufferfest videos, so I did the "Rubber Gloves" session, finding your FTP. Not having a power meter, I just used the heart rate monitor. I'm taken aback by how much of a difference my HR is on the bike vs the run. Average was 135 bpm and I barely got up to 160 at the end sprint. Not sure if it's just that I'm a weaker cyclist than runner or if the 17 miles yesterday impacted it. I'll probably do the test again sometime after a rest day.

 

[gruecd]

Meeting with the first of four ortho surgeons tomorrow morning to discuss my hip. I have a whole sheet of questions printed out. The guy isn't very experienced, so I highly doubt that I'd have him do my surgery if I need it, but he studied under Dr. Marc Philippon in Colorado (one of the pioneers in hip arthroscopy), so I figure it'll be good to pick his brain.

Also saw my PT this morning, which I'll continue to do weekly for the foreseeable future in the hope of strengthening the muscles around the hip. I also decided this past week that since I can't run much right now, I'm gonna try to do yoga every day this month. Three down, 25 to go. (Yoga pants)

Finally, I did manage an easy little 4-mile run yesterday. Felt good. Looking forward to hearing what the various docs have to say about running while I work through this.

 

[Sand]

A buddy sent me Sufferfest videos, so I did the "Rubber Gloves" session, finding your FTP. Not having a power meter, I just used the heart rate monitor. I'm taken aback by how much of a difference my HR is on the bike vs the run. Average was 135 bpm and I barely got up to 160 at the end sprint. Not sure if it's just that I'm a weaker cyclist than runner or if the 17 miles yesterday impacted it. I'll probably do the test again sometime after a rest day.

You need to be fresh for a 20 minute FTP test. Much fresher than what you were. It hurts like a #####. BTW, I see about a 10bpm difference between cycling and running. Max running is 188 or so while cycling is 180 or so.

 

[SteveC702]

I logged on yesterday after the race and the first thing I saw was Koby's great news. Everything else is kind of a blur now. I'll see if anything comes to me in the next few days.

I'm gonna go with "it went by so damn fast how can I be expected to remember anything?"

A lot of dark thoughts went through my head from miles 16-20 of this one. In fact as I started to write out the race report it's pretty long. I am going to need some time to organize this a bit better. Race report coming in the next few days.

 

[SFBayDuck]

SFDuck - I met the Hoka rep last week. If you are thinking about another pair, hold off until summer if at all possible. Major changes coming. The new Stinson rocks and the price on all products is coming down $10. The upper end Mafate I saw in the works had an aggressive tread but they've used a material that is basically bomb proof. He said you could run with it on the road and wouldn't hurt the tread. Most of the new models are coming out in June and July. He had a suit case with samples of everything they have and will have.

That's good to know, thanks. A Hoka rep was supposed to be at my local running shop this weekend but I wasn't able to make it down there, so good to get that intel.

I wish I could wait until summer, but I've already got 608 miles on them (thanks Strava for keeping track) and the outside of the outsole is pretty worn on each, really no tread left on the outer 1/3 - obviously I pronate a bit. But I should put 500-600 miles on a new pair by summer anyway and be ready for another.

 

[SFBayDuck]

I logged on yesterday after the race and the first thing I saw was Koby's great news. Everything else is kind of a blur now. I'll see if anything comes to me in the next few days.

I'm gonna go with "it went by so damn fast how can I be expected to remember anything?"

A lot of dark thoughts went through my head from miles 16-20 of this one. In fact as I started to write out the race report it's pretty long. I am going to need some time to organize this a bit better. Race report coming in the next few days.

And congrats!

 

[bentley]

Quick question guys. On a lark today, I committed to the MS 150 bike race in Texas. It's 75 miles per day x 2 days. I'm assuming that completing it shouldn't be too much difficulty. I have no illusions of being fast but it doesn't seem like a 75 mile ride should be any harder than a 10-12 mile run. Am I insane?

 

[prosopis]

Thanks guys. Like worrieking said the conditions weren't optimal, but I was in much better shape than when I ran my old PR that there was no way I wasn't walking out of there without a new PR unless I did something ######edly stupid. My wife and I met with a lot of our friends who either lived near there or came down for the race, and I got to experiment with some things which I think will really help going into Boston as well, so it was a good weekend overall.

Congratulations and holy #### that is fast.

 

[Hang 10]

Congrats, Koby!

Steve, once again...

 

[Sand]

Quick question guys. On a lark today, I committed to the MS 150 bike race in Texas. It's 75 miles per day x 2 days. I'm assuming that completing it shouldn't be too much difficulty. I have no illusions of being fast but it doesn't seem like a 75 mile ride should be any harder than a 10-12 mile run. Am I insane?

It is very doable (assuming it is flat, which I don't know), but that first 10 miles on the second day is going to hurt. Or, at least, your ### is going to hurt.

 

[jb1020]

:snip: FUBAR recently just went through this.

I'm glad to have done it, but also glad to be past the pure building phase. Lessons have been learned - namely that I didn't lose much if any top end speed despite running slow; that I added significant mileage without any injuries; and I think I'll be better off in the training phase keeping some runs slower than I had in the past.

You don't know how awesome it is to see someone else figure this out. Congrats!

Can someone briefly explain to me what happened here?

2 years ago I paid a ton of attention to my heart rate, but I guess I never really "analyzed" things. Heading into these summer months I'm trying to build a better base by running/biking mainly in zone 2, which by my estimates is 145ish and below.

Is that the deal here? If so, what is the ultimate goal...like when do you know your base is good enough?

 

[BassNBrew]

A buddy sent me Sufferfest videos, so I did the "Rubber Gloves" session, finding your FTP. Not having a power meter, I just used the heart rate monitor. I'm taken aback by how much of a difference my HR is on the bike vs the run. Average was 135 bpm and I barely got up to 160 at the end sprint. Not sure if it's just that I'm a weaker cyclist than runner or if the 17 miles yesterday impacted it. I'll probably do the test again sometime after a rest day.

It's easier for me to max the hr on the bike, especially the trainer. The bike it holding you upright whereas running you'll go down in a heap if you misstep. Try again when you have less than a 17 miles already backlogged in the legs.

 

[BassNBrew]

Quick question guys. On a lark today, I committed to the MS 150 bike race in Texas. It's 75 miles per day x 2 days. I'm assuming that completing it shouldn't be too much difficulty. I have no illusions of being fast but it doesn't seem like a 75 mile ride should be any harder than a 10-12 mile run. Am I insane?

You're not insane, but you're butt or shoulders will tell you that you are if you don't get the miles in beforehand. I can jog for 24 hours, but 4-5 on the bike makes my neck/shoulder/tricep hurt so bad I want to curl up into ball and cry like a baby (and that's even after being properly fitted).

 

[BassNBrew]

:snip: FUBAR recently just went through this.

I'm glad to have done it, but also glad to be past the pure building phase. Lessons have been learned - namely that I didn't lose much if any top end speed despite running slow; that I added significant mileage without any injuries; and I think I'll be better off in the training phase keeping some runs slower than I had in the past.

You don't know how awesome it is to see someone else figure this out. Congrats!

Can someone briefly explain to me what happened here?

2 years ago I paid a ton of attention to my heart rate, but I guess I never really "analyzed" things. Heading into these summer months I'm trying to build a better base by running/biking mainly in zone 2, which by my estimates is 145ish and below.

Is that the deal here? If so, what is the ultimate goal...like when do you know your base is good enough?

The ultimate goal is to be able to use fat as a fuel (and less carbs) when you race in a zone 3-4 range. You're base will be good enough when you can go hard and can get by with 200-300 cal per hour w/o boinking.

 

[SteveC702]

I got in another 11 today. Feeling very good about the HM in two weeks. I saw someone a couple pages back talking about 25 miles a week being light so now that has me worried I might not have trained hard enough. My current routine has been 3 days a week at 4-5 miles and then a long run on Sunday. 24 miles this week.

I know plenty of people who have run HMs comfortably on 25 mpw. It's all about doing as much as you can without overextending yourself and risk injury based on everything you have going on in our life. The more important thing is being smart on race day once the gun goes off.

 

[SteveC702]

Good luck with those appointments Grue. Hope you get some solid information out of the one you saw this morning and one of these guys can at least shed some more insight on your issues.

It also looks like we got a few new faces and a couple more converts to the "easy days easy, hard days hard" school. Welcome!

 

[Juxtatarot]

:snip: FUBAR recently just went through this.

I'm glad to have done it, but also glad to be past the pure building phase. Lessons have been learned - namely that I didn't lose much if any top end speed despite running slow; that I added significant mileage without any injuries; and I think I'll be better off in the training phase keeping some runs slower than I had in the past.

You don't know how awesome it is to see someone else figure this out. Congrats!

Can someone briefly explain to me what happened here?

2 years ago I paid a ton of attention to my heart rate, but I guess I never really "analyzed" things. Heading into these summer months I'm trying to build a better base by running/biking mainly in zone 2, which by my estimates is 145ish and below.

Is that the deal here? If so, what is the ultimate goal...like when do you know your base is good enough?

The ultimate goal is to be able to use fat as a fuel (and less carbs) when you race in a zone 3-4 range. You're base will be good enough when you can go hard and can get by with 200-300 cal per hour w/o boinking.

How important do you think this is for distances of half marathon or less? This is where I'm not completely on board with training super slow instead of just at a comfortable pace. People shouldn't bonk during half marathons.

 

[SteveC702]

Now, without further ado...

______________________________________________________________________________________



Rock n' Roll New Orleans Race Report:
Pre-race forecast was 60-70 degrees with pretty significant humidity and 30%-50% chance of rain starting at 8 am. (Race Start was 7 AM) Wind forecast of 6-10 mph. I didn't give any of this much of a thought as we were supposed to have 90-100% humidity in Houston 2 weeks ago too and I didn't feel it at all, and the wind sounded mild compared to some workouts I did in 20-25 mph winds recently. Little did I know what the day had in store for me and everyone else racing on the day...

Pre-race: One of my friends and I were going to meet up beforehand to warm-up together, but we both somehow put our phones in gear check bags thinking it was going to be easy to find each other. When I still couldn’t find him with less than 30 minutes left before the race I just gave up and went off to do my own thing (and figured correctly that he did the same thing). We ended up meeting up in the elite corral about 5 minutes before the race started.
At the start of the race a couple of guys took off along with Ben Bruce (the pre-race favorite, 62:5x half-marathoner making his marathon debut). My friend and I settle into our pre-determined pace and were running behind about a dozen other runners by the mile mark.
Mile 1 - 5:35 - Right on pace
Mile 2 - 5:44 - Effort stayed the same but I guess we slowed down because we went out a bit fast that first mile and then settled. So I tried to pick it back up a bit without getting too crazy.
Mile 3 - 5:42 –
Mile 4 - 5:40 - Back in business. I do notice my singlet is already soaked even though I was running fairly comfortably.
Mile 5 - 5:47 – I don’t remember what happened here, maybe a combination of the first 180 degree turn on the course and a slight climb in the first half of this mile.
Mile 6 - 5:41 - (10K 35:18) - Shortly after 10K My buddy lets me know something isn't feeling right so I grudgingly pushed on ahead and hope he manages to stay relaxed and rally in the last few miles.
Mile 7 - 5:27 - Had a nice breeze at my back and downhill.
Mile 8 - 5:36 - The roads were ridiculously slick on this part of the course for some reason, I asked a bunch of other people afterwards and everyone had the same experience but nobody knew why.
Mile 9 - 5:30 - Okay, back in business.
Mile 10 - 5:30 - Passed a couple of half guys. One of them tried to pick it up to fight me off and I looked down at my garmin to see it read 5:10/mi. Oops. I backed off for a minute and then passed him 2 minutes later without any issues.
Mile 11 - 5:34 - Passed one of the marathoners here. I would be alone with my escort bike for pretty much the rest of the race sans a glimpse of other runners at the 19.5 turnaround.
Mile 12 - 5:31 - Shortly before we passed the halfway mark, the half/full courses split and I was thinking about how at this point last year I was headed to the finish and now I am about to take an extra 13.1 detour to the lake. I feel in the zone now though and am preparing myself for a solid negative split.
Mile 13 - 5:28 – The official timing system screwed this split up somehow, but I was about 73:30 when I came through here so I in the back of my mind I was thinking I had a 2:26 going or possibly a high-2:25.
Mile 14 - 5:34 - Spectators tell me I am in 3rd but my escort biker and I both thought I was still 4th. (it turned out one of the guys with an elite marathon bib switched into the half but still had a marathon bib)
Mile 15 - 5:44 – Starting to run into a headwind.
Mile 16 - 5:48 - Really hoping this damn wind dies down.
Mile 17 - 5:46 - The course turned right and we're running right along the lake. The skies opened up hard (30% chance of light rain my ###!) and the wind picked up a notch or four. At the same time we're heading up the first bridge (I thought there were no hills on this damn course?!!!!) and I am hating life at this point.
Mile 18 - 5:54 - This is the low point of the race for me. In my head I asked myself what the hell I was thinking running another one of these things after Boston last year and then thinking that the first thing I do when I get home is find someone to take my Boston bib off my hands.
Mile 19 - 5:52 - I saw Ben Bruce and the lead truck going the other way and for some reason the thought that I can start turning around soon kind of helped me get out of my pity party. I also do some quick math and realize that if I keep everything at 5:50-5:55 I'll be right under 2:30. Reminder: always be flexible and set new backup goals when you realize your prerace goal is out of reach.
Mile 20 - 5:41 - I saw the 2nd runner shortly before the turnaround and based on the fact that it took me a little over a minute to get to the turnaround after I saw him I estimated I was 2:15-2:30 behind him at that point and that I was also in 3rd place for sure. With the wind now at my back most of the way and I am starting to come out of my bad patch. I am finally experiencing the fabled "second wind" for the first time in a marathon.
Mile 21 - 5:48 - I had conceded 2nd place at this point and just want to protect my position at this point. I also know I needed just 5:55s at this point to go sub-2:30 so I am feeling good. Ready to just finish this thing, collect my $100 and go home.
Mile 22 - 5:45 - Cruising along. Maybe 2:28x if I keep this up?
Mile 23 - 5:43 - Somewhere along this mile the runners coming the other way started telling me 2nd place was fading or 2nd place wasn't looking good. I still can't see him so I'm thinking these guys are just finding encouraging things to say.
Mile 24 - 5:42 - With a little over 3 miles to go I catch a glimpse of a biker ahead. Not any biker but one decked out in the same exact outfit my personal escort also had on! Going by my watch I am still over a minute behind at this point and I still can't see the runner, but if the bike is there the runner can't be too far ahead.
Mike 25 - 5:44 - By the end of this mile the gap was down to 30 seconds or so. I caught myself thinking "damn if this race was 27-28 miles long I can probably at least catch up" and then I of course realized this is an idiotic thought and I would still rather just get this damn thing over with.
Mile 26 - 5:52 - Still pushing hard but 2nd place knew the finish was near and turned it back on a notch.
Last 0.2 - 1:07 - Officially 2:28:43.

Post-race
Afterwards somebody slipped me an envelope with a wristband to the VIP area and told me to hang out there until it's time for awards. My wife, friends, and I quickly huddled and realized we had to change our original plan of going back to the hotel to shower right after the race. (checkout time was noon and they wouldn’t give us late checkout, with the awards at 11 AM and having to take a 20-30 min shuttle afterwards this was going to be really close). I ended up staying behind while everyone else went back. I went into the VIP area and chatted with some of the other runners hanging out there. It was cool chatting with Ben Bruce as he was a really nice guy and down to earth, and he was talking about his experience in running diamond league and world championship races in the same way that we talk about running races like Boston/Chicago/NYC or our local hometown 5K/10Ks. The awards ceremony was quick and simple and then they let us onto the shuttle to take us back to our hotels.

Thoughts on the race/last training cycle
The conditions obviously weren't optimal, but you're only as good as the time you ran on the day. I knew going in that I basically did a training cycle focused on half-marathon training with a few weeks of high mileage and a couple of long runs. I only had 3 runs over 16 miles in my 22-week cycle (18, 20, 23) and limited MP-specific s sessions so I was going to have to scale back my expectations a little bit. (Most calculators predict 2:23-2:25 off of a 68:12 half, I thought 2:25:59 would be possible on a great day but 2:27-2:28 was more realistic). I did have a few other goals for the race/cycle that I think I accomplished and feel very good about heading into my Boston cycle.

1. Worked on my nutrition. I planned on taking 4 gels instead of 2 like I did in the past and get as much gatorade/water as I can. I ended up taking 3 or 4 and ended up drinking at pretty much every stop until 3-4 miles to go.
2. Experimented with a shorter/less taper. In the past I've done a 3-4 week taper with race week of 30-40 miles in the 6 days before the race. This time I raced a half 2 weeks out and then kept the mileage at 70-80% of peak mileage with race week being 50+ miles in 6 days. I ended up pretty much avoiding the typical “taper madness” where I felt ridiculously tired leading up to race day and still felt fresh and rested on race morning.
3. Pre-race breakfast / warmup / strides routine. In the past I have pretty much done no warmup (other than walk and a few strides). I didn’t time my warmup, but I got in at least a good 3-5 minutes and some drills beforehand. I also got my pre-race / long run breakfast routine down so I’ll most likely stick with the same routine for Boston.
4. Gain experience: Ran a solid PR and like I mentioned in the race report I was able to keep a solid pace with no leg cramping issues for the first time ever over 26.2 miles. I have always told people that I feel like I have run marathons and never "raced" one. This wasn't the case last weekend, I was able to get back into a racing mindset in the last 5-7K and while I didn't catch my target, I feel this mindset will be tremendously helpful in April when there should be more people in closer intervals for me to run down in the last few miles.

This is also the smallest positive split I’ve ever had in a marathon, (1:43-1:53 depending on the exact half split) and the 2nd half was definitely a bit tougher than the 1st condition-wise.

Now, a few days of rest and then start training for a return trip to Hopkinton for redemption.

​

 

[Sand]

An article everyone in here should read - fascinating look at athletes and pain. Yes,we are tougher than the average bear.

 

[Sammy3469]

Quick question guys. On a lark today, I committed to the MS 150 bike race in Texas. It's 75 miles per day x 2 days. I'm assuming that completing it shouldn't be too much difficulty. I have no illusions of being fast but it doesn't seem like a 75 mile ride should be any harder than a 10-12 mile run. Am I insane?

You're not insane, but you're butt or shoulders will tell you that you are if you don't get the miles in beforehand. I can jog for 24 hours, but 4-5 on the bike makes my neck/shoulder/tricep hurt so bad I want to curl up into ball and cry like a baby (and that's even after being properly fitted).

FWIW, I just had another fitting done on my relatively new bike and while I had the saddle, pedals, crank all dialed in, the guy crunched the stem 10mm and put on a narrower handlebar for similar neck/shoulder/tricep "issues". He said that if you are stretched out at all those muscles are forced to be tense and you get that upper back soreness after 2+ hours. Just something to think about especially as we get older and/or early in the season, we lose some of the flexibility and strength that let you be more stretched out.

 

[Juxtatarot]

I wish I could have a personal race escort!

 

[2Young2BBald]

I wish I could have a personal race escort!

No ####. Mind blowing split data.

 

[tri-man 47]

I wish I could have a personal race escort!

No ####. Mind blowing split data.

Impressive stuff!

We're such dorks. We're getting all excited here over a personal escort ...when it's a guy on a bike.

 

[jb1020]

Mile 17 - 5:46 - The course turned right and we're running right along the lake. The skies opened up hard (30% chance of light rain my ###!) and the wind picked up a notch or four. At the same time we're heading up the first bridge (I thought there were no hills on this damn course?!!!!) and I am hating life at this point.

Great race and report.

My one and only marathon was NOLA and I had a similar thought. First you go up the levee to get on the lake...then up and down the bridges, with a stiff lake wind hitting you. <insert witty personal bike escort joke here>

 

[beer 302]

http://www.marathonfoto.com/Marathon/Rock-n-Roll-New-Orleans-2014/offering/myMarathonfotos/RaceOID/26602014W1/Language/en

Steve, you really need to work on your finishers celebration, bit anti-climatic or where you just unable to move? Thanks for the race report, awesome to have your input in this thread.

 

[Ned]

I wish I could have a personal race escort!

No ####. Mind blowing split data.

Impressive stuff!

We're such dorks. We're getting all excited here over a personal escort ...when it's a guy on a bike.

Steve - Very interesting on note #2 regarding 2 week taper. I've always felt I'm at my best when I'm piling the mileage on.... I've considered a 2 week taper for my last 2 marathons, but chickened out because 3 weeks was so mainstream. You've inspired me to try it this year.

Congrats on a stellar marathon!

 

[Ned]

:snip: FUBAR recently just went through this.

I'm glad to have done it, but also glad to be past the pure building phase. Lessons have been learned - namely that I didn't lose much if any top end speed despite running slow; that I added significant mileage without any injuries; and I think I'll be better off in the training phase keeping some runs slower than I had in the past.

You don't know how awesome it is to see someone else figure this out. Congrats!

Can someone briefly explain to me what happened here?

2 years ago I paid a ton of attention to my heart rate, but I guess I never really "analyzed" things. Heading into these summer months I'm trying to build a better base by running/biking mainly in zone 2, which by my estimates is 145ish and below.

Is that the deal here? If so, what is the ultimate goal...like when do you know your base is good enough?

The ultimate goal is to be able to use fat as a fuel (and less carbs) when you race in a zone 3-4 range. You're base will be good enough when you can go hard and can get by with 200-300 cal per hour w/o boinking.

How important do you think this is for distances of half marathon or less? This is where I'm not completely on board with training super slow instead of just at a comfortable pace. People shouldn't bonk during half marathons.

It's very important in a half; obviously not quite as important in the full, but its still vital for anyone looking to race a half. I know I say it too much, but you're leaving too much on the table thinking there's no place for the slow training runs.

To the bolded: screw that! I've bonked plenty of times in a half. What are you talking about?

I also don't think you should ever consider your base good enough. It should be the core element of your training regiment no matter how experienced you are.

 

[Sand]

I wish I could have a personal race escort!

No ####. Mind blowing split data.

Impressive stuff!

We're such dorks. We're getting all excited here over a personal escort ...when it's a guy on a bike.

I had a motorcycle escort once. Felt like a rockstar.

Yes, it is that cool.

 

[BassNBrew]

:snip: FUBAR recently just went through this.

I'm glad to have done it, but also glad to be past the pure building phase. Lessons have been learned - namely that I didn't lose much if any top end speed despite running slow; that I added significant mileage without any injuries; and I think I'll be better off in the training phase keeping some runs slower than I had in the past.

You don't know how awesome it is to see someone else figure this out. Congrats!

Can someone briefly explain to me what happened here?

2 years ago I paid a ton of attention to my heart rate, but I guess I never really "analyzed" things. Heading into these summer months I'm trying to build a better base by running/biking mainly in zone 2, which by my estimates is 145ish and below.

Is that the deal here? If so, what is the ultimate goal...like when do you know your base is good enough?

The ultimate goal is to be able to use fat as a fuel (and less carbs) when you race in a zone 3-4 range. You're base will be good enough when you can go hard and can get by with 200-300 cal per hour w/o boinking.

How important do you think this is for distances of half marathon or less? This is where I'm not completely on board with training super slow instead of just at a comfortable pace. People shouldn't bonk during half marathons.

For low intensity running your stores will last up to 90 minutes. For high intensity exercise it could be a little as 20 minutes before they are gone. I'm pretty confident in saying that if you're racing a half marathon at lacate threshold you will boink without replacement or very efficient fat burning. Personally I used to hit a point where a gel at 45-50 minutes would improve performance. Hopefully I've moved beyond that. For most in this thread I'd put the dividing line at the 8k-10k distance where slow training will net big dividends.

 

[gruecd]

Potential surgeon interview #1 this morning. Diagnosis confirmed. Now I just see if the others agree (almost a given), then choose a surgeon and decide if I wanna do Boston first.

Interestingly, the guy today (who I liked and who studied under Phillipon in Colorado) told me two weeks on crutches post-surgery and that I could start running another six weeks after that. If I had surgery in May, I could run a fall marathon. I could live with that. Hell, my running muscles might appreciate the break. #GlassHalfFull

 

[Juxtatarot]

:snip: FUBAR recently just went through this.

I'm glad to have done it, but also glad to be past the pure building phase. Lessons have been learned - namely that I didn't lose much if any top end speed despite running slow; that I added significant mileage without any injuries; and I think I'll be better off in the training phase keeping some runs slower than I had in the past.

You don't know how awesome it is to see someone else figure this out. Congrats!

Can someone briefly explain to me what happened here?

2 years ago I paid a ton of attention to my heart rate, but I guess I never really "analyzed" things. Heading into these summer months I'm trying to build a better base by running/biking mainly in zone 2, which by my estimates is 145ish and below.

Is that the deal here? If so, what is the ultimate goal...like when do you know your base is good enough?

The ultimate goal is to be able to use fat as a fuel (and less carbs) when you race in a zone 3-4 range. You're base will be good enough when you can go hard and can get by with 200-300 cal per hour w/o boinking.

How important do you think this is for distances of half marathon or less? This is where I'm not completely on board with training super slow instead of just at a comfortable pace. People shouldn't bonk during half marathons.

It's very important in a half; obviously not quite as important in the full, but its still vital for anyone looking to race a half. I know I say it too much, but you're leaving too much on the table thinking there's no place for the slow training runs.

To the bolded: screw that! I've bonked plenty of times in a half. What are you talking about?

I also don't think you should ever consider your base good enough. It should be the core element of your training regiment no matter how experienced you are.

I thought bonking was the layman's term for glycogen depletion that often happens for most people around the late teens in miles (unless you push that back by proper training, nutrition, etc.).

I fully support long, slow runs for all runners training for 5Ks and up. What I wonder about is how important slowing down from 75% of max heart rate to less than 70%, particularly for races where you should have proper glycogen reserves.

Edit: Aww, ####. See my reply to BnB. I guess I'm wrong on the bonk.

 

[Juxtatarot]

:snip: FUBAR recently just went through this.

I'm glad to have done it, but also glad to be past the pure building phase. Lessons have been learned - namely that I didn't lose much if any top end speed despite running slow; that I added significant mileage without any injuries; and I think I'll be better off in the training phase keeping some runs slower than I had in the past.

You don't know how awesome it is to see someone else figure this out. Congrats!

Can someone briefly explain to me what happened here?

2 years ago I paid a ton of attention to my heart rate, but I guess I never really "analyzed" things. Heading into these summer months I'm trying to build a better base by running/biking mainly in zone 2, which by my estimates is 145ish and below.

Is that the deal here? If so, what is the ultimate goal...like when do you know your base is good enough?

The ultimate goal is to be able to use fat as a fuel (and less carbs) when you race in a zone 3-4 range. You're base will be good enough when you can go hard and can get by with 200-300 cal per hour w/o boinking.

How important do you think this is for distances of half marathon or less? This is where I'm not completely on board with training super slow instead of just at a comfortable pace. People shouldn't bonk during half marathons.

For low intensity running your stores will last up to 90 minutes. For high intensity exercise it could be a little as 20 minutes before they are gone. I'm pretty confident in saying that if you're racing a half marathon at lacate threshold you will boink without replacement or very efficient fat burning. Personally I used to hit a point where a gel at 45-50 minutes would improve performance. Hopefully I've moved beyond that. For most in this thread I'd put the dividing line at the 8k-10k distance where slow training will net big dividends.

Interesting. I must have read too much about marathon bonking and was confused. Thank you.