tri-man 47
Footballguy
Hey ..actual speed work this morning! 5 miles, including 4 x 1/2 mile @ 3:27. They didn't feel very smooth, but I'm really pleased to be able to run them at a sub-7:00 pace. That's better than I expected.
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Ran a 10k in June (5 Viewers)
- Thread starter GStrot
- Start date
Prince Myshkin
Footballguy
SFBayDuck
Footballguy
That is a good one. Reminded me I've been meaning to share this one, about Gordy and the origin of the Western States 100. http://youtu.be/629q81fPqYM
"....I came to the point where I said, 'well, I can still take one more step,' and I just decided to keep taking one more step until I could no longer take one more step."
FUBAR
Footballguy
Why do you think your mile 5 was faster than 3 and 4? I've never had that on a track, though they have been close.
FUBAR
Footballguy
if you never DNF, you haven't pushed your distance.2015 might see FUBAR attempt an ultra.
SFBayDuck
Footballguy
Not entirely sure. It's obviously not that far off percentage wise, so could be something as simple as variability with the Garmin HRM or GPS (I was running in the outside lane so letting Garmin track my mile splits). Or, it could be that I've always felt I'm not really warmed up and feeling good until 4-5 miles into a run - maybe that's actually true.
Juxtatarot
Footballguy
Included two 13.1 mile runs in training this week. Half marathon 15 days away. 1:41 on Tuesday and 1:37 today. Looking back at training, I noticed I ran a 1:35 a week before setting my HM PR last fall so I think I'll try to beat that next weekend. I'll try a long tempo next week too. Probably not "by the book" training, but I think it will help my confidence.
Sand
Footballguy
That's... fairly insane. What time are you aiming for?
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On my end, I finally got a good ride in. 61 miles, 4300' of climbing at 20+mph. The group was full of nutcases that were ridiculously strong. I managed to hang on, though so it ended pretty well.
In the afternoon we went and tried out my wife's kayak that I got her for Christmas. Pretty fun stuff. The upshot of this is I'm sure now that my whole body will be sore tomorrow.
3 1/2 hours of good work done today and managed not to aggravate the abdominal strain that has grounded my running and swimming. Hoping to rest that enough to cure that in a couple days.
FUBAR
Footballguy
If it works for you, forget the book.
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Thinking next year I may have to do: http://www.etinternet.net/~runrbike/weymouth-info.htm 100k in mid January about 30 minutes from my house.
there's a free 50k (no shirts, prizes, etc) two weeks later which could be a fall back option.
That used to be a qualifier for WS100 before they thinned the qualifier list. The loop concept is a good arrangement for your first event. Wouldn't even need to carry water.
Juxtatarot
Footballguy
I'll probably start out around PR pace (1:27:39) and see how I feels after the first few miles. I doubt I'm in shape for that so I'll probably slow. I'll be disappointed if I come in over 1:30.
Prince Myshkin
Footballguy
having some achilles problems again. shut down 2 runs in a row with pain there. not as bad as last year, but no incentive to push it at this point.
gru/duck/anybody else with AT experience, any suggestions??? i had gotten a little lazy on the heel drops, so i've started back on that. i'm thinking an mri and some official physical therapy may be in order.
gru/duck/anybody else with AT experience, any suggestions??? i had gotten a little lazy on the heel drops, so i've started back on that. i'm thinking an mri and some official physical therapy may be in order.
tri-man 47
Footballguy
Despite my 1:31:30 PR, I'll be shocked if I crack 1:40 ...just can't get consistent training yet. So the good news is you can do your cool down while waiting for me.
Juxtatarot
Footballguy
Weather seems to finally be turning. At a minimum this will be a good race for us to judge where we're at to begin the season.
ChiefD
Footballguy
Still here. My race is in 3 weeks.
Not much new to report, except I feel my training is all over the place. I have not felt good at all during this build up to the race. Where in previous races I was feeling I was making progress, right now I just don't feel like I'm getting there.
Not sure if it's all the running slow I've been doing has made me feel I'm not making progress, or if that's just part of the process and the end game is not this race but maybe for later in the year.
Just don't feel great right now, so mentally I'm losing the battle at this point. Starting to wonder if I have some other health issues that are hindering me.
My training schedule called for a 15k race for today, so I decided to just run 9.6 and try to run a good solid pace. Ended running an 8:44 pace, so not bad. HR averaged 168. I didn't prepare that great the last 2 days getting ready in terms of diet and hydration, so I know that's on me.
Hang 10
Footballguy
Oh, I don't know why I thought your race was in March.
If you aren't feeling improvement, maybe you're doing too many easy runs. I've been doing a bit of reading and a thing that really caught my eye was quality over quantity for speed. The only time you should really be running slow is your long runs and your recovery runs... And recovery runs really aren't a necessity. Run some hills, do some track work, run some fartleks but whatever you do don't practice plodding. Train slow and race slow.
pizzatyme
Footballguy
Walk/run novice here. Ramping up training to do a half marathon by walking/running 3-4 miles 2x a week and then 6-10 miles over the next few weeks on Saturdays.
My question is, I get occasional shin splints. Anything I can do to prevent and/or treat these and other foot ankle pain?
Compression socks?
Stretching?
Etc?
TIA
My question is, I get occasional shin splints. Anything I can do to prevent and/or treat these and other foot ankle pain?
Compression socks?
Stretching?
Etc?
TIA
Sand
Footballguy
Essentially toe raises, though I used to do them by sitting on the floor, grabbing a foot with leg fully extended, and do sets of pushing against my hands.
tri-man 47
Footballguy
Compression socks probably won't help (they're better for the calves). The best advice is rest, but it sounds like your HM is rather soon. You can ice the soreness after workouts. To stretch and strengthen, take time to actively work the feet and ankles ...'stretch' and roll them around when you wake up, do some toe raises as Sand suggests (stand on a stair and lift yourself up and down), and use the exercise of 'writing' the alphabet with an outstretched foot. It will be hard to get a lot of improvement over the next few weeks when you're struggling with pain from overuse already. Do you have good shoes? That could be a cause. Can you train at all on hills/inclines (more efficient than just putting in miles)?
Keep us informed! If you can get at all comfortable with, say, 10 miles, the race environment will help you manage the extra distance.
beer 302
Footballguy
I have a number of friends who run Weymouth Woods, it's a rooty ##### that will wear your quads out. Train accordingly.
I've found compression sleeves for your calves help me. Wear them 24/7 if you can, they tend to help more after the run than during actually. I also usually just run through them but if you are having recurring issues with them then there is probably more going on than just getting used to pounding on the roads.
beer 302
Footballguy
Have an interesting dilemma. I want to run a 50 miler this year (or early next year) but I also want to focus on increasing my speed. Over the last few years I've found that increasing your base capabilities seems to be the harder of the two for me but arguably I haven't adhered to any speed training workout for more than a month or so. Should be an interesting summer, any races I'd be targeting would be late in the year so I have plenty of time to figure out something that works. I feel pretty good about where my base is right now so I'm thinking of working on the speed aspect and trying to drop about 30 seconds off race pace while still putting in some decent mileage on Saturdays.
MAC_32
Footballguy
Taking another shot at a five miler in two weeks. I did six miles earlier this week at the same clip, three miles at six minute mile pace Friday, and did seven today in 7:30 pace without breaking much of a sweat. Kinda pissed about my time last week now! I'll be happy with anything starting with a 32.
MAC_32
Footballguy
be careful, you won't want to rest but more rest than running is the right move, stick to every other day, push the miles one day per weekend and hope for week to week progress. Do not focus on pace, just focus on form, and get the miles in. If you start feeling healthy and want to increase speed by all means, but not until you get through a few workouts pain free.pizzatyme said:
Prince Myshkin
Footballguy
I had shin splint problems early on that were helped tremendously by compression sleeves. I would suggest at least trying it out.pizzatyme said:
Juxtatarot
Footballguy
How have your tempos gone? Are you running them faster than goal pace? For how many miles? You're also running occasionally at goal pace, right? How have those runs gone?
chauncey
Footballguy
So I set a goal to do 12 half marathons in 12 months in 12 states this year. Mainly trying to keep myself committed to running consistently all year and do some traveling around the country.
2/23 TX: The First Half, 2:02:06
3/9 CA: The Drunk Half, 2:04:00
3/23 AZ: The Crack 2hr Half, 1:54:59
Felt good to cross the beginner milestone of <2hr today, was at a 8:42 pace for first 10 miles then ran out of energy on the uphill 11th. Last 2 were at 8:26 pace. Amazing what a good night's sleep, being sober, and chasing hot chicks in skimpy shorts can do for your time.
Are there any half marathons you guys would recommend based on scenery, after party, charity, etc?
I'll probably take April off to train and work on speed (like to get down to 8:30 pace by late summer and 8:00 pace by 2015). Looking to do 2-3 races in May/June
2/23 TX: The First Half, 2:02:06
3/9 CA: The Drunk Half, 2:04:00
3/23 AZ: The Crack 2hr Half, 1:54:59
Felt good to cross the beginner milestone of <2hr today, was at a 8:42 pace for first 10 miles then ran out of energy on the uphill 11th. Last 2 were at 8:26 pace. Amazing what a good night's sleep, being sober, and chasing hot chicks in skimpy shorts can do for your time.
Are there any half marathons you guys would recommend based on scenery, after party, charity, etc?
I'll probably take April off to train and work on speed (like to get down to 8:30 pace by late summer and 8:00 pace by 2015). Looking to do 2-3 races in May/June
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beer 302
Footballguy
Nice job chauncey!!! That's a cool way to stay plugged into the sport. From your first 3 I'll guess you are on the west coast, plenty of good running out that way year round to keep you busy. There are a lot of top 10 or "must do befor you die" lists out there, I'd google up a few and see what works for you. The signature half around here is in November (Charlotte's Thunder Road) but I wouldn't call it anything special to hop on a plane for.
Hang 10
Footballguy
Work on getting faster IMO. That's something that's going to last and serve you well in all your races. Ultras are cool but they take so much time to train for (unless you're BNB) and after you'll likely be so banged up that running fast wont be an option for months. There will always be another 50K or 50 miler. Summer of speed, beer!beer 302 said:
Ned
Footballguy
Not uncommon to hit plateaus. You're used to making big strides in your previous training cycles because you started from 'zero'. You're probably in a better shape than you're giving yourself credit for.ChiefD said:
I'm also curious about what pacing you've been doing on speedwork and tempo runs. You could be burning the wick at both ends...
Hang 10
Footballguy
Good questions. It's also possible that if you're incorporating all that speed work and you're not feeling improvement, then you may be over training.
It's probably too late to sign up for a tuneup race before your half but I would recommend doing some trial runs around 10K and under to see where you're at.
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SFBayDuck
Footballguy
I'm assuming you're talking about getting faster at half or longer pace, and if that's the case I think you can definitely do both. Everything I've read indicates that you want to have a solid base prior to starting speed work, so that your body will hold up and can take advantage of the new stress. If you're there, then start mixing in speed/tempo work during the week, and just make sure you keep getting in those long runs on the weekends.
Now focusing on 5K speed while training for a 50M might be a bit tougher to balance.
SFBayDuck
Footballguy
Since it's recurring you've likely got something going wrong somewhere, and while the calves are the most likely place it could be anywhere up and down the kinetic chain. Only way to find out is to go see a good PT who can evaluate you for imbalances and weakness, and prescribe some exercises and drills to correct those while also treating the actual injury (ultrasound, massage, etc). I'm not sure what good an MRI would do you unless you think it's torn.Prince Myshkin said:
One other thing I'd throw out is to try out KT tape - that helped me a lot when I was coming back from my AT issues a few years back in letting me ramp up training again while I was still healing.
Hang 10
Footballguy
Not saying you're wrong but in my experience what you're suggesting doesn't really work in the practical sense. I'm also talking about distances of half marathon and lower. Building the mileage necessary for ultras does not usually allow you to bring your A game to the track. 3 hour runs on the weekends do more harm than good IMO and the races themselves leave your body in tatters at the end. The best way to get faster is to train continuously and the injuries that pile up doing ultras don't always allow that.
I've just starting develop a different philosophy when it comes to racing. I rather put my max training effort into short enough races distance in an attempt to master them (whatever that is for me) then to do races so far that I'm only training to accomplish the bare minimum (finishing).
Now, I hope you don't take this the wrong way. I'm only talking about myself here and we all do races for different reasons. I get the appeal of the ultras but it's not for me at this point in my life.
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ChiefD
Footballguy
Here are some of my results from the last few weeks. This is only the speed work, as I've been doing somewhat easy runs the other days.
March 4th: 4x800, 10K Pace: Ran the 800's in a pace in the 7:40 range
March 6th: 45 minute tempo: First 2 miles at about 10:00 pace, then start ramping up. At about mile 3.5 I reach my peak for about .5 mile, where I'm running in the 7:20 range, and at the end of that stretch I'm hitting 6:52, but not for long. Maybe a minute. Then I ramp back down for the remainder of the time. I'm basing this off the Higdon plan, so it's entirely possible I'm not doing tempo runs properly.
March 8th: 4 Mile Pace: Pace is 8:11. My goal for the HM is 8:00ish.
March 11th: 3 x 1600 Race Pace: Pace is 7:58.
March 13th: 50 Minute Tempo: First 3-4 miles are at about 8:55 pace. Start to ramp up, and at my peak I'm at about a 7:30 pace, which I hold for about a .5 mile. Then ramp down the remainder of the run.
March 15th: Scheduled for a 5 Mile Pace, but I was traveling on Sunday, so did my long run of 11.1 on this day.
Last week was sporadic, as I was traveling most of the week. It was actually a week with an extra rest day scheduled in, but I ended up running slow runs on Tuesday and Saturday. I then had a scheduled 15k race pace for Sunday, so I ran 9.6 miles at a 8:44 pace. This is the one that got me a little worried about my progression.
tri-man 47
Footballguy
Hang 10 - you make good points. A primary reason I don't like running marathons (much less giving consideration to ultras) is that it inhibits top performance in the shorter races (esp. 5Ks). Triathlons, and triathlon training, create the same challenge. I get caught up in doing a wide range of races, and that's fine and fun, but I also kind of want to pick a distance and really focus hard on it. I think my slow start this spring is tied to the marathon bonanza last fall.
Chauncey - I see a neat HM in Monterey on November 16 (registration starts on 4/1 - it's called the Big Sur HM, but it's not run on the Big Sur coast south of Carmel). I've run much of the race course, by chance, when I was in Monterey for a conference a few years ago, and it does hug part of the Monterey coast line (still very scenic). And I absolutely love the whole Carmel/Monterey area. If you're somewhere southwest, you might also explore the Denver/Boulder area.
Ned
Footballguy
Where's the HR data at, man?
You're running too many speed and tempo workouts close together, IMO. Your legs are probably pretty spent. What are you doing between these training runs?
Also, what's your HM PR? Curious where the 8:00 goal is coming from.
SFBayDuck
Footballguy
You're both right, if looking at shorter distances like 5K-10K, probably even up to a half. Beer mentioned "trying to drop about 30 seconds off race pace", while also putting in enough mileage to work towards a 50M. I guess I assumed he was talking longer distances as those seem to be more the races he's running. I think moving from say an 10:00 to 9:30 or 9:30 to a 9:00 pace would be very doable while training for an ultra. Maffetone would say just keep running MAF and you'll get faster at the kinds of "race pace" you're looking at for marathons and beyond. And if you're not 100% on board with MAF then throwing in some tempo/harder efforts while still getting in long runs on the weekend should show improvement as well.
Now if he's trying to sharpen up 5K and 10K speed, I would think you're absolutely right in that 4-5 hour weekend long runs would negatively impact your ability to get in quality speed workouts during the week.
And Hang, I don't take your comments the wrong way at all - you are very right in that we all do this sport for different reasons. Although I will say I'm not sure I'd call finishing a 50M or 100M a "bare minimum" under any circumstance.
ChiefD
Footballguy
Sorry about that. Added above and bolded.Where's the HR data at, man?
You're running too many speed and tempo workouts close together, IMO. Your legs are probably pretty spent. What are you doing between these training runs?
Also, what's your HM PR? Curious where the 8:00 goal is coming from.
All I'm doing is following the Higdon Advanced HM plan to the day. So the runs you see above are basically Tuesday/Thursday/Saturday runs. I'm running a slow run on Mondays and Wednesdays, rest on Friday, and then a long run on Sundays.
My legs actually feel pretty dang good. Not much soreness at all and they don't feel dead to me at all.
My PR HM was 1:52, so I set a goal of 1:45. Hence the 8:00 pace.
beer 302
Footballguy
Duck knows me well. My intent isn't to bring my 5k time up but to lower my distance times (if that makes sense). I long ago resigned myself to the fact that I'm not a speed guy like some of you and I know, it's all relative but I'm never going to be under 7 minute guy. And I'm good with that but I would like to get around 8 minute miles and sustain it for a half or longer. Right now I'm probably around 9 minute miles for that distance so there's plenty of work to do. I feel pretty confident in my base right now thanks to the ultra training I've done recently and noticed a really cool side effect is (light bulb moment) I've gotten faster by running longer & slower. 20 mile trail runs did wonders for me in the last half I ran so I'm looking to build on that.My plan is to continue to work on my base to maintain it but also run more tempo and dedicated speed workouts than I have in the past. Today I did 8 3/4 @ slightly above race pace 9:18. It was the best run I can remember for that route pretty much ever. Tomorrow will be 6 in the hills behind my house at a slower pace but the hills will make up for it. There aren't a whole lot of flat areas around here to recover on so even your slow runs encompass hills.
[SIZE=medium]As promised...hope you enjoy or at least sympathize.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=medium]Georgia Death Race Report[/SIZE]
[SIZE=medium]Overview - Definitely the hardest event I’ve ever attempted and my first DNF. We were allotted 24 hours to complete the 68 miles and the time cut offs ended up closing in on me and ending my event. The terrain was tough but the views were nice in the remote northern GA Mountains. RD was a great guy and the event was well supported with a few minor hiccups.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=medium]Friday Night - Made the 4 hour drive to arrive right in the middle of the 2 hour mandatory check in window. During the race meeting I found out that drop bags had to be turned in that evening in the next 15 minutes which sent me into a panic scramble. The race website almost touted a Friday Night BBQ dinner. When I asked about dinner I found out that was an oversight not removed from the website and I was a year late for dinner. I had planned on sleeping in my truck at the start line and hadn’t brought dinner. It was a 20 minute drive to town to find a Wendy’s for a salad. I ate and drove back and crashed in my truck some time around 11pm. At 2am the Wendy’s turned out to be a mistake as I was awaken with stomach pain and the need to trek a ¼ mile to the facilities. By the time I got back to my truck I had to turn around and visit the facilities again. Finally went back to sleep and awoke at 4:30 for the 5am start.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=medium]Start to Coosa - The first mile was crowded as we quickly transitioned to single track after a short stint on the road. The first mile had 350 ft of climbing and I managed a nice 12’43” start. The next 3 miles had 466 ft up and 843 ft down which I covered in about 39 min. I was feeling strong as we rolled into the first major climb. At mile 4 we were at 2100 ft elevation on our way up to 4300 ft at mile 7.25. This is the steepest terrain I’ve ever run/hiked and managed some outstanding mile times of 18’16” / 21’06” / 24’26” in the dark. I passed several people in the first mile and noticed a line of 30+ headlamps chasing me up the climb. I held off all but one or two runners during the climb and was relieved when the trail finally stopped going up. It was shortly after this that downhill technical running weakness was exposed. Over the next downhill mile at least 30 and probably closer to 40 runners passed me. I kept pulling off to the side of the trail to let people pass. It was like was a full cement truck on the expressway during rush hour. I hit the first aid station at mile 8 well ahead of my goal pace. I filled a single water bottle and was on my way as the sun peaked over the horizon in the distance. [/SIZE]
[SIZE=medium]Coosa to Mulky Gap – The next 5 miles were up and down alternating between 140 ft up to 450 ft up and right back down. It took me 93 minutes to cover this section. At an 18’40” pace I was still below my goal pace but was disappointed I wasn’t gaining time on the down hills. It seemed like the remaining half the field passed me and I was wondering if I had completed that first mega climb at the pointy end of the field. The coolest part about this section was as I traversed the mountain side hills, as I looked off to my left it was a 45 degree drop as far as I could see. May have been 500 feet down, could have easily been 1000+ feet to the bottom. Definitely makes you think about staying in control and not making any footing mistakes. One bottle turned out not to be enough so I was getting dehydrated and went to two bottles.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=medium]Mulky Gap to Skeenah Gap – The climbs started to wear on my here. 8.5 miles that took me in excess of 3h 5m to complete. Here are some of the climbs; 700 ft in 9/10s mi, 200 ft in ¼ mi, 250 ft in ½ mi, 400 ft in 4/10s mi, 250 ft in 1/4 mi, and 400 ft in 1/2mi. That’s 2.8 miles between 15% and 20% grade. The down hills were equally as steep and the quads and knees didn’t like any of it. I posted some atrocious mile times of 27 min, 26 min, and 29 min which destroyed my cumulative average. Finished this section with a 750 ft descent over 9/10’s of a mile into the aid station. Worse part of this was that after you refueled, you had turn around and climb right back up. [/SIZE]
[SIZE=medium]Skeenah Gap to Point Bravo – 7.5 mile stretch here. Two bottles wasn’t enough for 3 hours as the day heated up and I had been in conservation mode. Spent a little over 5 minutes at the aid station sucking down as much liquid as possible. The next 1.4 miles covered 900 ft of vertical gain. After a ½ mile “flat” there was a 1/5 mile 300 ft gain section followed by a 700 ft plummet over the next mile. Mile times on the uphill were over 25 min/mi and I wasn’t gaining it back with 20 min pace on the down hills. It was here that I knew making the 24 hour finishing cutoff wasn’t very likely. Another short steep climb and then an 1100 free fall over 1.6 miles into Point Bravo. I did lose a little time helping a sick runner during this section. [/SIZE]
[SIZE=medium]Point Bravo to Sapling Gap – I reached Bravo (mile 28) at 10 hours into the event. Spent 10 minutes at this aid station getting a callus taped and getting who knows what from my drop bag. Ran the math…if I keep the same pace I’m looking at a time just north of 24 hours. Some said the course got easier from here so “there’s hope”. Left the aid station and had what seemed like a burst of energy at the time and began running. Knocked out two 15 minute miles on forest service road that I would have pegged at 12 min miles at the time. Back to single track, across an amazing swinging bridge, and then the next climb hits. 500 feet up over the next ½ mile. That took 18 minutes as I waved bye-bye to the recent time gains. It didn’t get any easier with an additional 700 ft of climbing over the next two miles. Somewhere in this section was an aid station. I remember being at mile 33 at roughly 12 hours and thinking I only needed to go double the distance and then do it faster…no problem :rolls eyes:.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=medium]Sapling Gap to Big Bald / Frick Creek – Signs of human life have been spotty. Going into Big Bald I get passed by two runners I saw over 10 miles ago. Getting passed was actually comforting. It’s been over 3.5 hours since I’ve seen another runner and thoughts of ending up in northern Alabama are creeping into my head. The sun is also becoming spotty as the mountain peaks in the middle of nowhere obscure the remaining rays. I and one of the passing runners have an impromptu math lesson and he pulls the plug at the next stop. I wasn’t as smart.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=medium]Big Bald / Frick Creek to Winding Stair – The aid station locations and numbers changed twice over the two days prior to the race. I take off from the aid station convinced I’ve just gone through Wind Stair and that my GPS data was off. Yippee…I’m actually 2.5 miles further than I thought. I knock out the next forest service road mile in 17 minutes and have my game face back on. It’s now dark and the head lamp is back on. It should be several miles of downhill forest service road to the next stop. About a mile later the road starts to level. No big deal, elevation profiles can hide these flats. A mile later the flat turns into an uphill and I realize that I have a two mile climb to Winding Stair and I’m not 2.5 miles ahead. I pull into Winding Stair (mile 43.5) at 16 hours an hour ahead of the posted cutoff. That’s 21.75 miles per 8 hours and I have about 25 miles to cover in 8 hours. That works out to a 19 min pace to finish. My last 3.5 miles took 90 minutes or a 26 min/mi pace. I have two options at this point;[/SIZE]
[SIZE=medium]On the ride back to the start we passed numerous people still on the course. Everyone single one of them was walking. I’m sure the sweeper/reaper picked off most of these individuals at the next two cut off points.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=medium]It’s over a week later and my quads still are sore. My feet survived well and I’ve started running again. This was a fun event and overall the race director did a good job staging the event other than a few minor complaints. The bottom line is that I bit off more than I could chew by signing up for this event. I’m just not technically proficient enough running steep downhill terrain to bank enough time to make up for the relentless climbing. I’ve hit the limit of my ability for my weight, age, and running background. I’m actually very happy with my uphill performance which was sufficient to have finished this event.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=medium]This was a training event for the upcoming Massenutten 100 event. Given the terrain at Mass100 I’m having serious concerns about toeing the start line. I have about 4 weeks to make a final decision and 8 weeks to gun time. I would need to maintain a 21 minute pace to complete Mass, something I was unable to do at the Ga Death Race.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=medium]Final tallies – 43.5 miles, 16 hours, 11,700 ft climbing, 8500 Kcals burned, 1 kicked butt.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=medium]Georgia Death Race Report[/SIZE]
[SIZE=medium]Overview - Definitely the hardest event I’ve ever attempted and my first DNF. We were allotted 24 hours to complete the 68 miles and the time cut offs ended up closing in on me and ending my event. The terrain was tough but the views were nice in the remote northern GA Mountains. RD was a great guy and the event was well supported with a few minor hiccups.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=medium]Friday Night - Made the 4 hour drive to arrive right in the middle of the 2 hour mandatory check in window. During the race meeting I found out that drop bags had to be turned in that evening in the next 15 minutes which sent me into a panic scramble. The race website almost touted a Friday Night BBQ dinner. When I asked about dinner I found out that was an oversight not removed from the website and I was a year late for dinner. I had planned on sleeping in my truck at the start line and hadn’t brought dinner. It was a 20 minute drive to town to find a Wendy’s for a salad. I ate and drove back and crashed in my truck some time around 11pm. At 2am the Wendy’s turned out to be a mistake as I was awaken with stomach pain and the need to trek a ¼ mile to the facilities. By the time I got back to my truck I had to turn around and visit the facilities again. Finally went back to sleep and awoke at 4:30 for the 5am start.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=medium]Start to Coosa - The first mile was crowded as we quickly transitioned to single track after a short stint on the road. The first mile had 350 ft of climbing and I managed a nice 12’43” start. The next 3 miles had 466 ft up and 843 ft down which I covered in about 39 min. I was feeling strong as we rolled into the first major climb. At mile 4 we were at 2100 ft elevation on our way up to 4300 ft at mile 7.25. This is the steepest terrain I’ve ever run/hiked and managed some outstanding mile times of 18’16” / 21’06” / 24’26” in the dark. I passed several people in the first mile and noticed a line of 30+ headlamps chasing me up the climb. I held off all but one or two runners during the climb and was relieved when the trail finally stopped going up. It was shortly after this that downhill technical running weakness was exposed. Over the next downhill mile at least 30 and probably closer to 40 runners passed me. I kept pulling off to the side of the trail to let people pass. It was like was a full cement truck on the expressway during rush hour. I hit the first aid station at mile 8 well ahead of my goal pace. I filled a single water bottle and was on my way as the sun peaked over the horizon in the distance. [/SIZE]
[SIZE=medium]Coosa to Mulky Gap – The next 5 miles were up and down alternating between 140 ft up to 450 ft up and right back down. It took me 93 minutes to cover this section. At an 18’40” pace I was still below my goal pace but was disappointed I wasn’t gaining time on the down hills. It seemed like the remaining half the field passed me and I was wondering if I had completed that first mega climb at the pointy end of the field. The coolest part about this section was as I traversed the mountain side hills, as I looked off to my left it was a 45 degree drop as far as I could see. May have been 500 feet down, could have easily been 1000+ feet to the bottom. Definitely makes you think about staying in control and not making any footing mistakes. One bottle turned out not to be enough so I was getting dehydrated and went to two bottles.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=medium]Mulky Gap to Skeenah Gap – The climbs started to wear on my here. 8.5 miles that took me in excess of 3h 5m to complete. Here are some of the climbs; 700 ft in 9/10s mi, 200 ft in ¼ mi, 250 ft in ½ mi, 400 ft in 4/10s mi, 250 ft in 1/4 mi, and 400 ft in 1/2mi. That’s 2.8 miles between 15% and 20% grade. The down hills were equally as steep and the quads and knees didn’t like any of it. I posted some atrocious mile times of 27 min, 26 min, and 29 min which destroyed my cumulative average. Finished this section with a 750 ft descent over 9/10’s of a mile into the aid station. Worse part of this was that after you refueled, you had turn around and climb right back up. [/SIZE]
[SIZE=medium]Skeenah Gap to Point Bravo – 7.5 mile stretch here. Two bottles wasn’t enough for 3 hours as the day heated up and I had been in conservation mode. Spent a little over 5 minutes at the aid station sucking down as much liquid as possible. The next 1.4 miles covered 900 ft of vertical gain. After a ½ mile “flat” there was a 1/5 mile 300 ft gain section followed by a 700 ft plummet over the next mile. Mile times on the uphill were over 25 min/mi and I wasn’t gaining it back with 20 min pace on the down hills. It was here that I knew making the 24 hour finishing cutoff wasn’t very likely. Another short steep climb and then an 1100 free fall over 1.6 miles into Point Bravo. I did lose a little time helping a sick runner during this section. [/SIZE]
[SIZE=medium]Point Bravo to Sapling Gap – I reached Bravo (mile 28) at 10 hours into the event. Spent 10 minutes at this aid station getting a callus taped and getting who knows what from my drop bag. Ran the math…if I keep the same pace I’m looking at a time just north of 24 hours. Some said the course got easier from here so “there’s hope”. Left the aid station and had what seemed like a burst of energy at the time and began running. Knocked out two 15 minute miles on forest service road that I would have pegged at 12 min miles at the time. Back to single track, across an amazing swinging bridge, and then the next climb hits. 500 feet up over the next ½ mile. That took 18 minutes as I waved bye-bye to the recent time gains. It didn’t get any easier with an additional 700 ft of climbing over the next two miles. Somewhere in this section was an aid station. I remember being at mile 33 at roughly 12 hours and thinking I only needed to go double the distance and then do it faster…no problem :rolls eyes:.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=medium]Sapling Gap to Big Bald / Frick Creek – Signs of human life have been spotty. Going into Big Bald I get passed by two runners I saw over 10 miles ago. Getting passed was actually comforting. It’s been over 3.5 hours since I’ve seen another runner and thoughts of ending up in northern Alabama are creeping into my head. The sun is also becoming spotty as the mountain peaks in the middle of nowhere obscure the remaining rays. I and one of the passing runners have an impromptu math lesson and he pulls the plug at the next stop. I wasn’t as smart.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=medium]Big Bald / Frick Creek to Winding Stair – The aid station locations and numbers changed twice over the two days prior to the race. I take off from the aid station convinced I’ve just gone through Wind Stair and that my GPS data was off. Yippee…I’m actually 2.5 miles further than I thought. I knock out the next forest service road mile in 17 minutes and have my game face back on. It’s now dark and the head lamp is back on. It should be several miles of downhill forest service road to the next stop. About a mile later the road starts to level. No big deal, elevation profiles can hide these flats. A mile later the flat turns into an uphill and I realize that I have a two mile climb to Winding Stair and I’m not 2.5 miles ahead. I pull into Winding Stair (mile 43.5) at 16 hours an hour ahead of the posted cutoff. That’s 21.75 miles per 8 hours and I have about 25 miles to cover in 8 hours. That works out to a 19 min pace to finish. My last 3.5 miles took 90 minutes or a 26 min/mi pace. I have two options at this point;[/SIZE]
- [SIZE=medium]Bust my rear through the night to get to mile 61, miss the cutoff, have to find a ride back to the finish, hope to make the last shuttle from the finish to the start where my truck is. [/SIZE]
- [SIZE=medium]Kick back in a chair next to a campfire under a blanket and drink a beer.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=medium]On the ride back to the start we passed numerous people still on the course. Everyone single one of them was walking. I’m sure the sweeper/reaper picked off most of these individuals at the next two cut off points.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=medium]It’s over a week later and my quads still are sore. My feet survived well and I’ve started running again. This was a fun event and overall the race director did a good job staging the event other than a few minor complaints. The bottom line is that I bit off more than I could chew by signing up for this event. I’m just not technically proficient enough running steep downhill terrain to bank enough time to make up for the relentless climbing. I’ve hit the limit of my ability for my weight, age, and running background. I’m actually very happy with my uphill performance which was sufficient to have finished this event.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=medium]This was a training event for the upcoming Massenutten 100 event. Given the terrain at Mass100 I’m having serious concerns about toeing the start line. I have about 4 weeks to make a final decision and 8 weeks to gun time. I would need to maintain a 21 minute pace to complete Mass, something I was unable to do at the Ga Death Race.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=medium]Final tallies – 43.5 miles, 16 hours, 11,700 ft climbing, 8500 Kcals burned, 1 kicked butt.[/SIZE]
Hang 10
Footballguy
I think I've identified the problem. Your speed work isn't speed work. It's medium work. You're are doing VO2 max type workouts at a threshold pace. If your goal is to run your half marathon at an 8 minute pace than doing 800's and 1600's at just a bit faster than a 8 minute pace probably isn't very challenging. You should be running your tempo runs at a steady 8 minute pace and your track work should be at 5K pace or better (<7:30).Sorry about that. Added above and bolded.Where's the HR data at, man?
You're running too many speed and tempo workouts close together, IMO. Your legs are probably pretty spent. What are you doing between these training runs?
Also, what's your HM PR? Curious where the 8:00 goal is coming from.
All I'm doing is following the Higdon Advanced HM plan to the day. So the runs you see above are basically Tuesday/Thursday/Saturday runs. I'm running a slow run on Mondays and Wednesdays, rest on Friday, and then a long run on Sundays.
My legs actually feel pretty dang good. Not much soreness at all and they don't feel dead to me at all.
My PR HM was 1:52, so I set a goal of 1:45. Hence the 8:00 pace.
Hang 10
Footballguy
I think you may be selling yourself short, my friend.
Think about it like this. What if you put in half marathon mileage but with focused training with the goal of crushing a 5k. You probably have no idea what you're capable of. Let's find out! This also doesn't really preclude you from running longer races whenever you felt like it because obviously you'd have a good mileage base.
This is my plan. I believe if you really want get faster you need to start from the bottom and work your way up. Eventually that speed will translate into gains in ALL your races.
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Hang 10
Footballguy
Insane. How many people started this race and how many finished? What was the average finishing time?
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