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Ran a 10k - Official Thread (4 Viewers)

SteelCurtain said:
Sorry, I have been MIA.

Here's what my life has been.

Early September -- BQ at Tunnel Marathon. Got to hang with everyone's favorite @bushdocda . Had a great time.

4 days later, I know something is up with my heart. End up on Friday (5 days after Marathon) going to cardiologist. End up diagnosing I have Atrial Fibrillation....which is essentially, heart is not beating in rhythm....super inefficient. I felt like I was living at 12,000 feet of elevation. Out of breath going up a flight of stairs type of thing. (I had this 11 years ago as well.)

A week or so later, I had a cardioversion where they use electric shocks to get the heart back into rhythm. All is good, however, in meeting with the cardiologist, he said, "There is research going on that may indicate some longer endurance events could have a negative impact on some hearts." This was obviously nerve-racking to me. My doc is a triathlete so he understands my mentality and I trust him. The research isn't totally conclusive and we agreed since I went 11 years in between episodes, I can continue on with my racing plan.

In any event, I decided I need to continue to live my life but I'm definitely much more careful right now in what I'm asking my body to do. I used to workout and go hard....as hard as I could. I simply need to be smarter and more measured.

I just led the 4:00 pace group at a small race here in NY and will be leading the 4:05 pace group at NYC Marathon in a couple weeks. That will be the end of the 2024 race season for me.

2025 currently looking like Boston (my 8th straight), a possible 2027 BQ attempt in September (location TBD), Chicago (likely pacing), Marine Corps Marathon (pacing) and NYC (pacing). Admittedly, I'm working on getting myself back into Chicago -- was offered a pacing spot a few years ago but had already committed to another race. Now, I know I said I was being more careful, and I am. I will likely slow down my paces -- particularly for MCM and NYC since they are on back to back weekends.

If anyone will be in NYC for the marathon, let me know. I believe @bushdocda and Mrs. @bushdocda may be spending a few days in the Big Apple during that time. Perhaps a FBG meet up is in order!
Click to expand...
As an active afibber myself, with a good friend who’s a distance-running cardiologist, I’ve had plenty of discussions on this topic (including one with you, IIRC). While the association with endurance training definitely exists, the time/intensity which balances cardiovascular benefits and harm is unclear.

In general, we know moderate intensity exercise is helpful, actually reducing arrhythmia and mortality risk. The ceiling “dose” for moderate exercise is high - somewhere in the range of 2000 minutes/week. But high intensity exercise increases the risk of atrial fibrillation, with one study showing 2000 cumulative training hours nearly quadruples AF frequency. Other studies have confirmed 4-5 fold greater AF prevalence among endurance athletes, with highest risk among those with the best race times, and most frequent races.

All that said, meta analyses, which combine data from multiple studies to form a larger database, have shown mixed results. One of these suggested AF risk was limited to athletes less than 54, as age is an independent risk factor for the arrhythmia. And athletes have lower all cause mortality than sedentary folks regardless, AF or not.

For me, the AF-exercise signal is strong enough that I scaled way back after my diagnosis. I quit running altogether, and cycling as well, though I’m more open to resuming the latter. But I still exercise every day, at least 90 minutes. It’s mostly hill walking, which gets my HR up enough to preserve a decent VO2 max, while not overtaxing my heart, or joints.

Even though your AF events were over a decade apart, recurrence after a first episode at a young age clearly shows you’re prone to the arrhythmia. Fortunately, you were shocked out of it both times. I was diagnosed later, but required multiple shocks and two ablation procedures to reign it in. I’ve had no recurrence in 1.5 years, and take no medications, so I’m content, even if my racing days are over.

I hope you find a compromise which works for you. Good luck.

ETA “Moderate” intensity is less than 6 METS. Walking a 15 minute mile is ~4 METS, running a 10 minute mile is about 10 METS.
 
Last edited:
Mini "race" report, as I want actually racing, mostly just surviving...

Tecumseh Trail HM
I did this few years ago, trail today want the same but was similar. Then I wasn't particularly close to my peak shape but was far better than today, and then I finished in about 2:45. Today I was consistently moving on through 8 miles, then I rolled my left ankle on what was my 3rd and final fall of the day. Almost quit then but didn't. Tweaked the ankle again at about the 9.5 mile mark. At that point it became a pure effort to just finish and it became a lot of walking.

But, I finished. Took about 3:25 to do so, but I did it so...
 
Thanks everyone!

Short version for now...some times you take some risks and they blow up in your face, other times they pay off.

This whole year for me was about qualifying for Boston 2026. Before all the BQ changes and seeing the buffers needed, I thought coming in at 3:13:30-3:14:00 would cut it. After all the new info that came out, I don't think that will be enough.

I decided to try and cut 3-4 seconds off my pace to at least give me a better shot at getting in. If I failed, it would have sucked, but I didn't want to leave anything out there...this was my only goal for the year.

Fortunately, I was able to keep it together. My pace started slipping the last 3 miles, but I made some of that up in the extra mileage and had banked enough throughout the race to come in <3:12. We will see if 3:11:55 ends up being enough, but this would have been more than an 8 minute buffer under the old standards and >3 mins now.

I'm tired.
 
3:36:52 for me! I was extremely pleased with the pace and comfortable effort through the first 18-19 miles or so. I was holding a solid 8:04/ mile pace (miles 16-17 both sub 8:00). Some slippage after that, especially in miles 24-25 as I dealt with some cramping. But it’s a very comfortable BQ-43.
 
xulf said:
Fortunately, I was able to keep it together. My pace started slipping the last 3 miles, but I made some of that up in the extra mileage and had banked enough throughout the race to come in <3:12. We will see if 3:11:55 ends up being enough, but this would have been more than an 8 minute buffer under the old standards and >3 mins now.
Click to expand...

KICK ***! Great job and so awesome. Love it. :strong:
 
tri-man 47 said:
3:36:52 for me! I was extremely pleased with the pace and comfortable effort through the first 18-19 miles or so. I was holding a solid 8:04/ mile pace (miles 16-17 both sub 8:00). Some slippage after that, especially in miles 24-25 as I dealt with some cramping. But it’s a very comfortable BQ-43.
Click to expand...

Hahah BQ-43 that's nuts! Great work! #BMF
 
xulf said:
Thanks everyone!

Short version for now...some times you take some risks and they blow up in your face, other times they pay off.

This whole year for me was about qualifying for Boston 2026. Before all the BQ changes and seeing the buffers needed, I thought coming in at 3:13:30-3:14:00 would cut it. After all the new info that came out, I don't think that will be enough.

I decided to try and cut 3-4 seconds off my pace to at least give me a better shot at getting in. If I failed, it would have sucked, but I didn't want to leave anything out there...this was my only goal for the year.

Fortunately, I was able to keep it together. My pace started slipping the last 3 miles, but I made some of that up in the extra mileage and had banked enough throughout the race to come in <3:12. We will see if 3:11:55 ends up being enough, but this would have been more than an 8 minute buffer under the old standards and >3 mins now.

I'm tired.
Click to expand...
What a beast! Those split times on strava are just insanely consistent. Just simply amazing!
 
tri-man 47 said:
3:36:52 for me! I was extremely pleased with the pace and comfortable effort through the first 18-19 miles or so. I was holding a solid 8:04/ mile pace (miles 16-17 both sub 8:00). Some slippage after that, especially in miles 24-25 as I dealt with some cramping. But it’s a very comfortable BQ-43.
Click to expand...
Wow. Just wow. You guys rock.
 
Terminalxylem said:
SteelCurtain said:
Sorry, I have been MIA.

Here's what my life has been.

Early September -- BQ at Tunnel Marathon. Got to hang with everyone's favorite @bushdocda . Had a great time.

4 days later, I know something is up with my heart. End up on Friday (5 days after Marathon) going to cardiologist. End up diagnosing I have Atrial Fibrillation....which is essentially, heart is not beating in rhythm....super inefficient. I felt like I was living at 12,000 feet of elevation. Out of breath going up a flight of stairs type of thing. (I had this 11 years ago as well.)

A week or so later, I had a cardioversion where they use electric shocks to get the heart back into rhythm. All is good, however, in meeting with the cardiologist, he said, "There is research going on that may indicate some longer endurance events could have a negative impact on some hearts." This was obviously nerve-racking to me. My doc is a triathlete so he understands my mentality and I trust him. The research isn't totally conclusive and we agreed since I went 11 years in between episodes, I can continue on with my racing plan.

In any event, I decided I need to continue to live my life but I'm definitely much more careful right now in what I'm asking my body to do. I used to workout and go hard....as hard as I could. I simply need to be smarter and more measured.

I just led the 4:00 pace group at a small race here in NY and will be leading the 4:05 pace group at NYC Marathon in a couple weeks. That will be the end of the 2024 race season for me.

2025 currently looking like Boston (my 8th straight), a possible 2027 BQ attempt in September (location TBD), Chicago (likely pacing), Marine Corps Marathon (pacing) and NYC (pacing). Admittedly, I'm working on getting myself back into Chicago -- was offered a pacing spot a few years ago but had already committed to another race. Now, I know I said I was being more careful, and I am. I will likely slow down my paces -- particularly for MCM and NYC since they are on back to back weekends.

If anyone will be in NYC for the marathon, let me know. I believe @bushdocda and Mrs. @bushdocda may be spending a few days in the Big Apple during that time. Perhaps a FBG meet up is in order!
Click to expand...
As an active afibber myself, with a good friend who’s a distance-running cardiologist, I’ve had plenty of discussions on this topic (including one with you, IIRC). While the association with endurance training definitely exists, the time/intensity which balances cardiovascular benefits and harm is unclear.

In general, we know moderate intensity exercise is helpful, actually reducing arrhythmia and mortality risk. The ceiling “dose” for moderate exercise is high - somewhere in the range of 2000 minutes/week. But high intensity exercise increases the risk of atrial fibrillation, with one study showing 2000 cumulative training hours nearly quadruples AF frequency. Other studies have confirmed 4-5 fold greater AF prevalence among endurance athletes, with highest risk among those with the best race times, and most frequent races.

All that said, meta analyses, which combine data from multiple studies to form a larger database, have shown mixed results. One of these suggested AF risk was limited to athletes less than 54, as age is an independent risk factor for the arrhythmia. And athletes have lower all cause mortality than sedentary folks regardless, AF or not.

For me, the AF-exercise signal is strong enough that I scaled way back after my diagnosis. I quit running altogether, and cycling as well, though I’m more open to resuming the latter. But I still exercise every day, at least 90 minutes. It’s mostly hill walking, which gets my HR up enough to preserve a decent VO2 max, while not overtaxing my heart, or joints.

Even though your AF events were over a decade apart, recurrence after a first episode at a young age clearly shows you’re prone to the arrhythmia. Fortunately, you were shocked out of it both times. I was diagnosed later, but required multiple shocks and two ablation procedures to reign it in. I’ve had no recurrence in 1.5 years, and take no medications, so I’m content, even if my racing days are over.

I hope you find a compromise which works for you. Good luck.

ETA “Moderate” intensity is less than 6 METS. Walking a 15 minute mile is ~4 METS, running a 10 minute mile is about 10 METS.
Click to expand...
Wow. @Terminalxylem , I'm so incredibly grateful for you sharing this information. It's nerve racking trying to find a balance to feed my competitive urges and be smart about my heart health.

If you don't mind, I will likely send you some additional questions and thoughts about my specific situation. No need to muddy up this thread with heart health stuff.

Thanks again.
 
Columbus Marathon

2023 was a great year for me running-wise. I had 4 races, and 4 PRs. Thanks to last spring’s Glass City Marathon, I was also truly able to race (and finish without walking) a marathon for the first time.

2024 didn’t start off as great for me. I had a HM in the spring, where I tried to reduce the number of weeks I was training, but also got sick for a week or 2, and it never came together. Sunny/warm weather killed my goal time 4 miles in.

For this one, I followed the same training I did for Glass City. I tracked the Hanson Advanced plan, but modify it by:

  • Adding 3 miles to every GMP run. Instead of progressing from 6@GMP to 10@GMP throughout, I started at 9@GMP and went through a HM@GMP.
  • Adding 2 miles to every Sunday long run. The exception was that I replaced two of the 16 milers with 20 milers.


My GMP during this cycle was <7:20, which put me at ~3:12 if I didn’t have any extra distance. I knew that wouldn’t happen, so I estimated I’d end up ~3:13:30-3:14:00.

As I mentioned in my super short RR, this whole year for me was about qualifying for Boston 2026. Before all the BQ changes and seeing the buffers needed, I thought coming in at 3:13:30-3:14:00 would cut it. After all the new info that came out, I don't think that will be enough.

For my last training run at GMP, I tested out dropping my time by a few seconds. All felt good, so for the race I decided to try and cut 3-4 seconds off my pace to at least give me a better shot at getting into Boston. Having had to walk a couple miles at Monumental, I knew if this was too aggressive, I was going to have a really sh!tty end to this race. But I didn't want to leave anything out there...since this was my only goal for the year.

All went smooth in the morning as my wife dropped me off a few blocks from the start. She and my kids later came to root me on at miles 14 and 24. Weather was ~40 at the gun and ended upper 50s by the finish.


Miles 1-10: 7:11/7:14/7:11/7:17/7:13/7:17/7:19/7:15/7:15/7:14

With all the excitement at the start and moving through the maze of people (even starting near the front), I went out a little hotter than I expected. However, the first couple miles of this race are uphill, and since this pace didn’t seem like it would cause issues, I was good with it. However, because this starting pace was a faster pace than what I had been training at, I was a bit nervous. I kept thinking about slowing down, but race flow and the course itself (e.g., timely downhills when I thought about backing off, but didn’t want to waste them) led me to keep it up.

I checked my HR multiple times per mile to make sure I wasn’t letting it get away from me, and fortunately my HR remained around the mid-150s, which is right where I wanted it to be. I always forget that the front half timing mats on this course are off. The first one is shorter than it says so everyone’s pace looks fast, the second one is then farther out which means that segments pace is slow, but the HM mat seems to be right on target. Overall, I was quite pleased (surprised?) with how this first 10 miles played out.


Miles 11-20: 7:16/7:11/7:16/7:15/7:17/7:16/7:15/7:17/7:19/7:15

I started getting passed by half marathoners in miles 10-13. It was a little tough not to keep up with them, but I kept telling myself not to do anything stupid and run my own race. I never once during the race checked my total time, only focusing on each mile and making sure that was staying on pace. I apparently hit the HM mark at 1:35:35, so I was on pace for what I wanted, if not slightly ahead of pace.

We lost all the half marathoners and went on to a more thinned out back half. After losing a bunch of people who split off, I saw my wife and girls cheering on the runners at mile 14 --- this of course put a big smile on my face and gave me a little extra giddy up. The second half of this race goes to Ohio State’s campus and we run around the outside of the Horseshoe. There is a tough hill on this stretch before the stadium, but I got through that unscathed. After the stadium, we cross a bridge that eats people up, and I had a guy cramp up right in front of me, which I fortunately was able to weave around. I started passing more and more walkers around mile 18.

I actually started feeling a bit confident at this point. My HR was still hovering around the upper 150s, I felt strong versus the other runners that were having some trouble, and I overall felt good. I even started trying to do the maths if I could somehow get in around 3:10 if I could start cutting more time off. These same thoughts always seem to run through my head in race, and fortunately more sound reason prevailed. I kept telling myself not to do anything stupid because I was killing this race, and I didn’t want to F anything up by going too hard. My choice not to go harder was also assisted by the big @ss hill on mile 19. I was able to keep my pace up, but it spiked my HR up to the upper 160s, and after this mile, I was never able to get it back down to the more comfortable 150s.


Miles 21-26+: 7:14/7:15/7:15/7:21/7:26/7:25/6:59

Things get a little fuzzy on this stretch of things. I was definitely feeling the race, but I also felt good enough that I thought I could finish it. After the hill on mile 19, we got a bit of downhill reprieve. More and more people are walking and I’m passing a pretty decent number of people who have also just slowed up. My wife and kids were on mile 24 to cheer me on again. But, I honestly did not see them. Apparently, they recruited a person dressed up in a panda costume and her friends to cheer me on and I saw none of it… I was just trying to survive at this point and the world around me was a blur.

I do remember that my watch was having some issues with the pace staying on point. Im not sure if it was buildings that were blocking the GPS or what, but I would look down and see a 7:45 pace for the mile and feel defeated, but then it would quickly drop 10-15 seconds and hold. I definitely saw some pace slippage those last 3 miles, but I still had enough in the tank. I made the final turn and had ~0.7 miles left. As Im making that turn, some ladies had thought that was a great time for them to cross the street right in front of me. I gave them a dirty look and a weak grunt (all I could muster) and put my head down to finish as fast as I could.



Official Time – 3:11:55
PR by 4:08

Enough for Boston 26? I have a 3:05 buffer on the new standards, so we will see.
 
Last edited:
xulf said:
Columbus Marathon

2023 was a great year for me running-wise. I had 4 races, and 4 PRs. Thanks to last spring’s Glass City Marathon, I was also truly able to race (and finish without walking) a marathon for the first time.

2024 didn’t start off as great for me. I had a HM in the spring, where I tried to reduce the number of weeks I was training, but also got sick for a week or 2, and it never came together. Sunny/warm weather killed my goal time 4 miles in.

For this one, I followed the same training I did for Glass City. I tracked the Hanson Advanced plan, but modify it by:

  • Adding 3 miles to every GMP run. Instead of progressing from 6@GMP to 10@GMP throughout, I started at 9@GMP and went through a HM@GMP.
  • Adding 2 miles to every Sunday long run. The exception was that I replaced two of the 16 milers with 20 milers.


My GMP during this cycle was <7:20, which put me at ~3:12 if I didn’t have any extra distance. I knew that wouldn’t happen, so I estimated I’d end up ~3:13:30-3:14:00.

As I mentioned in my super short RR, this whole year for me was about qualifying for Boston 2026. Before all the BQ changes and seeing the buffers needed, I thought coming in at 3:13:30-3:14:00 would cut it. After all the new info that came out, I don't think that will be enough.

For my last training run at GMP, I tested out dropping my time by a few seconds. All felt good, so for the race I decided to try and cut 3-4 seconds off my pace to at least give me a better shot at getting into Boston. Having had to walk a couple miles at Monumental, I knew if this was too aggressive, I was going to have a really sh!tty end to this race. But I didn't want to leave anything out there...since this was my only goal for the year.

All went smooth in the morning as my wife dropped me off a few blocks from the start. She and my kids later came to root me on at miles 14 and 24. Weather was ~40 at the gun and ended upper 50s by the finish.


Miles 1-10: 7:11/7:14/7:11/7:17/7:13/7:17/7:19/7:15/7:15/7:14

With all the excitement at the start and moving through the maze of people (even starting near the front), I went out a little hotter than I expected. However, the first couple miles of this race are uphill, and since this pace didn’t seem like it would cause issues, I was good with it. However, because this starting pace was a faster pace than what I had been training at, I was a bit nervous. I kept thinking about slowing down, but race flow and the course itself (e.g., timely downhills when I thought about backing off, but didn’t want to waste them) led me to keep it up.

I checked my HR multiple times per mile to make sure I wasn’t letting it get away from me, and fortunately my HR remained around the mid-150s, which is right where I wanted it to be. I always forget that the front half timing mats on this course are off. The first one is shorter than it says so everyone’s pace looks fast, the second one is then farther out which means that segments pace is slow, but the HM mat seems to be right on target. Overall, I was quite pleased (surprised?) with how this first 10 miles played out.


Miles 11-20: 7:16/7:11/7:16/7:15/7:17/7:16/7:15/7:17/7:19/7:15

I started getting passed by half marathoners in miles 10-13. It was a little tough not to keep up with them, but I kept telling myself not to do anything stupid and run my own race. I never once during the race checked my total time, only focusing on each mile and making sure that was staying on pace. I apparently hit the HM mark at 1:35:35, so I was on pace for what I wanted, if not slightly ahead of pace.

We lost all the half marathoners and went on to a more thinned out back half. After losing a bunch of people who split off, I saw my wife and girls cheering on the runners at mile 14 --- this of course put a big smile on my face and gave me a little extra giddy up. The second half of this race goes to Ohio State’s campus and we run around the outside of the Horseshoe. There is a tough hill on this stretch before the stadium, but I got through that unscathed. After the stadium, we cross a bridge that eats people up, and I had a guy cramp up right in front of me, which I fortunately was able to weave around. I started passing more and more walkers around mile 18.

I actually started feeling a bit confident at this point. My HR was still hovering around the upper 150s, I felt strong versus the other runners that were having some trouble, and I overall felt good. I even started trying to do the maths if I could somehow get in around 3:10 if I could start cutting more time off. These same thoughts always seem to run through my head in race, and fortunately more sound reason prevailed. I kept telling myself not to do anything stupid because I was killing this race, and I didn’t want to F anything up by going too hard. My choice not to go harder was also assisted by the big @ss hill on mile 19. I was able to keep my pace up, but it spiked my HR up to the upper 160s, and after this mile, I was never able to get it back down to the more comfortable 150s.


Miles 21-26+: 7:14/7:15/7:15/7:21/7:26/7:25/6:59

Things get a little fuzzy on this stretch of things. I was definitely feeling the race, but I also felt good enough that I thought I could finish it. After the hill on mile 19, we got a bit of downhill reprieve. More and more people are walking and I’m passing a pretty decent number of people who have also just slowed up. My wife and kids were on mile 24 to cheer me on again. But, I honestly did not see them. Apparently, they recruited a person dressed up in a panda costume and her friends to cheer me on and I saw none of it… I was just trying to survive at this point and the world around me was a blur.

I do remember that my watch was having some issues with the pace staying on point. Im not sure if it was buildings that were blocking the GPS or what, but I would look down and see a 7:45 pace for the mile and feel defeated, but then it would quickly drop 10-15 seconds and hold. I definitely saw some pace slippage those last 3 miles, but I still had enough in the tank. I made the final turn and had ~0.7 miles left. As Im making that turn, some ladies had thought that was a great time for them to cross the street right in front of me. I gave them a dirty look and a weak grunt (all I could muster) and put my head down to finish as fast as I could.



Official Time – 3:11:55
PR by 4:08

Enough for Boston 26? I have a 3:05 buffer on the new standards, so we will see.
Click to expand...
Such impressive consistency in the pacing. You were really in control out there ...wow. As to the training, I love the discipline you showed with the Hanson Advanced plan and, then, the two smart modifications to the plan for the GMP tempo runs and the long runs. Superbly done, @xulf !!!

:pickle:
 
xulf said:
Columbus Marathon

2023 was a great year for me running-wise. I had 4 races, and 4 PRs. Thanks to last spring’s Glass City Marathon, I was also truly able to race (and finish without walking) a marathon for the first time.

2024 didn’t start off as great for me. I had a HM in the spring, where I tried to reduce the number of weeks I was training, but also got sick for a week or 2, and it never came together. Sunny/warm weather killed my goal time 4 miles in.

For this one, I followed the same training I did for Glass City. I tracked the Hanson Advanced plan, but modify it by:

  • Adding 3 miles to every GMP run. Instead of progressing from 6@GMP to 10@GMP throughout, I started at 9@GMP and went through a HM@GMP.
  • Adding 2 miles to every Sunday long run. The exception was that I replaced two of the 16 milers with 20 milers.


My GMP during this cycle was <7:20, which put me at ~3:12 if I didn’t have any extra distance. I knew that wouldn’t happen, so I estimated I’d end up ~3:13:30-3:14:00.

As I mentioned in my super short RR, this whole year for me was about qualifying for Boston 2026. Before all the BQ changes and seeing the buffers needed, I thought coming in at 3:13:30-3:14:00 would cut it. After all the new info that came out, I don't think that will be enough.

For my last training run at GMP, I tested out dropping my time by a few seconds. All felt good, so for the race I decided to try and cut 3-4 seconds off my pace to at least give me a better shot at getting into Boston. Having had to walk a couple miles at Monumental, I knew if this was too aggressive, I was going to have a really sh!tty end to this race. But I didn't want to leave anything out there...since this was my only goal for the year.

All went smooth in the morning as my wife dropped me off a few blocks from the start. She and my kids later came to root me on at miles 14 and 24. Weather was ~40 at the gun and ended upper 50s by the finish.


Miles 1-10: 7:11/7:14/7:11/7:17/7:13/7:17/7:19/7:15/7:15/7:14

With all the excitement at the start and moving through the maze of people (even starting near the front), I went out a little hotter than I expected. However, the first couple miles of this race are uphill, and since this pace didn’t seem like it would cause issues, I was good with it. However, because this starting pace was a faster pace than what I had been training at, I was a bit nervous. I kept thinking about slowing down, but race flow and the course itself (e.g., timely downhills when I thought about backing off, but didn’t want to waste them) led me to keep it up.

I checked my HR multiple times per mile to make sure I wasn’t letting it get away from me, and fortunately my HR remained around the mid-150s, which is right where I wanted it to be. I always forget that the front half timing mats on this course are off. The first one is shorter than it says so everyone’s pace looks fast, the second one is then farther out which means that segments pace is slow, but the HM mat seems to be right on target. Overall, I was quite pleased (surprised?) with how this first 10 miles played out.


Miles 11-20: 7:16/7:11/7:16/7:15/7:17/7:16/7:15/7:17/7:19/7:15

I started getting passed by half marathoners in miles 10-13. It was a little tough not to keep up with them, but I kept telling myself not to do anything stupid and run my own race. I never once during the race checked my total time, only focusing on each mile and making sure that was staying on pace. I apparently hit the HM mark at 1:35:35, so I was on pace for what I wanted, if not slightly ahead of pace.

We lost all the half marathoners and went on to a more thinned out back half. After losing a bunch of people who split off, I saw my wife and girls cheering on the runners at mile 14 --- this of course put a big smile on my face and gave me a little extra giddy up. The second half of this race goes to Ohio State’s campus and we run around the outside of the Horseshoe. There is a tough hill on this stretch before the stadium, but I got through that unscathed. After the stadium, we cross a bridge that eats people up, and I had a guy cramp up right in front of me, which I fortunately was able to weave around. I started passing more and more walkers around mile 18.

I actually started feeling a bit confident at this point. My HR was still hovering around the upper 150s, I felt strong versus the other runners that were having some trouble, and I overall felt good. I even started trying to do the maths if I could somehow get in around 3:10 if I could start cutting more time off. These same thoughts always seem to run through my head in race, and fortunately more sound reason prevailed. I kept telling myself not to do anything stupid because I was killing this race, and I didn’t want to F anything up by going too hard. My choice not to go harder was also assisted by the big @ss hill on mile 19. I was able to keep my pace up, but it spiked my HR up to the upper 160s, and after this mile, I was never able to get it back down to the more comfortable 150s.


Miles 21-26+: 7:14/7:15/7:15/7:21/7:26/7:25/6:59

Things get a little fuzzy on this stretch of things. I was definitely feeling the race, but I also felt good enough that I thought I could finish it. After the hill on mile 19, we got a bit of downhill reprieve. More and more people are walking and I’m passing a pretty decent number of people who have also just slowed up. My wife and kids were on mile 24 to cheer me on again. But, I honestly did not see them. Apparently, they recruited a person dressed up in a panda costume and her friends to cheer me on and I saw none of it… I was just trying to survive at this point and the world around me was a blur.

I do remember that my watch was having some issues with the pace staying on point. Im not sure if it was buildings that were blocking the GPS or what, but I would look down and see a 7:45 pace for the mile and feel defeated, but then it would quickly drop 10-15 seconds and hold. I definitely saw some pace slippage those last 3 miles, but I still had enough in the tank. I made the final turn and had ~0.7 miles left. As Im making that turn, some ladies had thought that was a great time for them to cross the street right in front of me. I gave them a dirty look and a weak grunt (all I could muster) and put my head down to finish as fast as I could.



Official Time – 3:11:55
PR by 4:08

Enough for Boston 26? I have a 3:05 buffer on the new standards, so we will see.
Click to expand...
Truly amazing pacing. Congratulations on your BQ. No one can ever take that away from you.

I'm a huge fan of Hanson's and love your tweaks. I have never extended the GMP runs but I do extend those 16 milers to 20.

Two questions I have.....

1. Would it have been better to do a slower first mile or two to let your body warm up? I find if I launch into race pace immediately, I'm working harder than I am at mile 5 after I'm warmed up.
2. That hill you referenced at 19 which made your HR spike. Would it have been better to go a bit slower on the uphill and keep the HR down and then try to make up the lost time on the couple miles afterwards. Or it doesn't really matter? Interesting proposition. @tri-man 47 is our resident heart rate expert these days now that @Ned has retired from the 10K thread.


Regardless, you absolutely crushed it and to get a 4+ minute PR is incredible. Congratulations again.
 
Arrived at my daughter’s place late last night. Chilling out today and will head out a little after 6am tomorrow for the hour drive to the course. Triple Lakes Trail Race 40 mile, I am Bib 504 and it uses RaceJoy tracking if anyone wants to follow along.

Weather forecast not great - clear skies, upper 50s at start and upper 70s by noon. I’m going to need to drink a lot to keep things from spiraling. Dew points in 50s, so humid for this time of year but not crazy oppressive.

In addition to walking any steepish uphills, the plan is to take regular 5 minute walk breaks to take in nutrition and break up the flat sections to keep from flaming out. We’ll see. I’ll do my best, boys.
 
SteelCurtain said:
xulf said:
Columbus Marathon

2023 was a great year for me running-wise. I had 4 races, and 4 PRs. Thanks to last spring’s Glass City Marathon, I was also truly able to race (and finish without walking) a marathon for the first time.

2024 didn’t start off as great for me. I had a HM in the spring, where I tried to reduce the number of weeks I was training, but also got sick for a week or 2, and it never came together. Sunny/warm weather killed my goal time 4 miles in.

For this one, I followed the same training I did for Glass City. I tracked the Hanson Advanced plan, but modify it by:

  • Adding 3 miles to every GMP run. Instead of progressing from 6@GMP to 10@GMP throughout, I started at 9@GMP and went through a HM@GMP.
  • Adding 2 miles to every Sunday long run. The exception was that I replaced two of the 16 milers with 20 milers.


My GMP during this cycle was <7:20, which put me at ~3:12 if I didn’t have any extra distance. I knew that wouldn’t happen, so I estimated I’d end up ~3:13:30-3:14:00.

As I mentioned in my super short RR, this whole year for me was about qualifying for Boston 2026. Before all the BQ changes and seeing the buffers needed, I thought coming in at 3:13:30-3:14:00 would cut it. After all the new info that came out, I don't think that will be enough.

For my last training run at GMP, I tested out dropping my time by a few seconds. All felt good, so for the race I decided to try and cut 3-4 seconds off my pace to at least give me a better shot at getting into Boston. Having had to walk a couple miles at Monumental, I knew if this was too aggressive, I was going to have a really sh!tty end to this race. But I didn't want to leave anything out there...since this was my only goal for the year.

All went smooth in the morning as my wife dropped me off a few blocks from the start. She and my kids later came to root me on at miles 14 and 24. Weather was ~40 at the gun and ended upper 50s by the finish.


Miles 1-10: 7:11/7:14/7:11/7:17/7:13/7:17/7:19/7:15/7:15/7:14

With all the excitement at the start and moving through the maze of people (even starting near the front), I went out a little hotter than I expected. However, the first couple miles of this race are uphill, and since this pace didn’t seem like it would cause issues, I was good with it. However, because this starting pace was a faster pace than what I had been training at, I was a bit nervous. I kept thinking about slowing down, but race flow and the course itself (e.g., timely downhills when I thought about backing off, but didn’t want to waste them) led me to keep it up.

I checked my HR multiple times per mile to make sure I wasn’t letting it get away from me, and fortunately my HR remained around the mid-150s, which is right where I wanted it to be. I always forget that the front half timing mats on this course are off. The first one is shorter than it says so everyone’s pace looks fast, the second one is then farther out which means that segments pace is slow, but the HM mat seems to be right on target. Overall, I was quite pleased (surprised?) with how this first 10 miles played out.


Miles 11-20: 7:16/7:11/7:16/7:15/7:17/7:16/7:15/7:17/7:19/7:15

I started getting passed by half marathoners in miles 10-13. It was a little tough not to keep up with them, but I kept telling myself not to do anything stupid and run my own race. I never once during the race checked my total time, only focusing on each mile and making sure that was staying on pace. I apparently hit the HM mark at 1:35:35, so I was on pace for what I wanted, if not slightly ahead of pace.

We lost all the half marathoners and went on to a more thinned out back half. After losing a bunch of people who split off, I saw my wife and girls cheering on the runners at mile 14 --- this of course put a big smile on my face and gave me a little extra giddy up. The second half of this race goes to Ohio State’s campus and we run around the outside of the Horseshoe. There is a tough hill on this stretch before the stadium, but I got through that unscathed. After the stadium, we cross a bridge that eats people up, and I had a guy cramp up right in front of me, which I fortunately was able to weave around. I started passing more and more walkers around mile 18.

I actually started feeling a bit confident at this point. My HR was still hovering around the upper 150s, I felt strong versus the other runners that were having some trouble, and I overall felt good. I even started trying to do the maths if I could somehow get in around 3:10 if I could start cutting more time off. These same thoughts always seem to run through my head in race, and fortunately more sound reason prevailed. I kept telling myself not to do anything stupid because I was killing this race, and I didn’t want to F anything up by going too hard. My choice not to go harder was also assisted by the big @ss hill on mile 19. I was able to keep my pace up, but it spiked my HR up to the upper 160s, and after this mile, I was never able to get it back down to the more comfortable 150s.


Miles 21-26+: 7:14/7:15/7:15/7:21/7:26/7:25/6:59

Things get a little fuzzy on this stretch of things. I was definitely feeling the race, but I also felt good enough that I thought I could finish it. After the hill on mile 19, we got a bit of downhill reprieve. More and more people are walking and I’m passing a pretty decent number of people who have also just slowed up. My wife and kids were on mile 24 to cheer me on again. But, I honestly did not see them. Apparently, they recruited a person dressed up in a panda costume and her friends to cheer me on and I saw none of it… I was just trying to survive at this point and the world around me was a blur.

I do remember that my watch was having some issues with the pace staying on point. Im not sure if it was buildings that were blocking the GPS or what, but I would look down and see a 7:45 pace for the mile and feel defeated, but then it would quickly drop 10-15 seconds and hold. I definitely saw some pace slippage those last 3 miles, but I still had enough in the tank. I made the final turn and had ~0.7 miles left. As Im making that turn, some ladies had thought that was a great time for them to cross the street right in front of me. I gave them a dirty look and a weak grunt (all I could muster) and put my head down to finish as fast as I could.



Official Time – 3:11:55
PR by 4:08

Enough for Boston 26? I have a 3:05 buffer on the new standards, so we will see.
Click to expand...
Truly amazing pacing. Congratulations on your BQ. No one can ever take that away from you.

I'm a huge fan of Hanson's and love your tweaks. I have never extended the GMP runs but I do extend those 16 milers to 20.

Two questions I have.....

1. Would it have been better to do a slower first mile or two to let your body warm up? I find if I launch into race pace immediately, I'm working harder than I am at mile 5 after I'm warmed up.
2. That hill you referenced at 19 which made your HR spike. Would it have been better to go a bit slower on the uphill and keep the HR down and then try to make up the lost time on the couple miles afterwards. Or it doesn't really matter? Interesting proposition. @tri-man 47 is our resident heart rate expert these days now that @Ned has retired from the 10K thread.


Regardless, you absolutely crushed it and to get a 4+ minute PR is incredible. Congratulations again.
Click to expand...

Thanks. To answer your questions...

1) I dont think its a big deal for me to start off faster. A couple of things, I'm a giant ball of anxiety to start races because I'm always fearful of getting tripped up and eating concrete - this doesnt help my HR. I also do some runs without really any warmup @GMP. It's not like it's a full sprint, so it's not that grueling. I also get in a bit of a warmup prior to the gun.

2) There's really no way for me to know. If I took an extra 15 seconds on the hill, then held my normal pace for the rest of the way, it would have come out pretty similarly. The way it turned out, I can't complain so I would probably do it the same way if given the opportunity.
 
Dr_Zaius said:
Arrived at my daughter’s place late last night. Chilling out today and will head out a little after 6am tomorrow for the hour drive to the course. Triple Lakes Trail Race 40 mile, I am Bib 504 and it uses RaceJoy tracking if anyone wants to follow along.

Weather forecast not great - clear skies, upper 50s at start and upper 70s by noon. I’m going to need to drink a lot to keep things from spiraling. Dew points in 50s, so humid for this time of year but not crazy oppressive.

In addition to walking any steepish uphills, the plan is to take regular 5 minute walk breaks to take in nutrition and break up the flat sections to keep from flaming out. We’ll see. I’ll do my best, boys.
Click to expand...

Good luck today. You're a BMF for signing up for this! Sounds like you got a plan, now get er done :boxing:
 
Grand Rapids Marathon Race Report

3:36:52 (8:11/mi)

2nd of 13 in AG; 196 of 1,100 overall

TL:DR – I ran an encouraging race and easily qualified for Boston, 2026 with a decent qualifying time …while medal mongering along the way.

This marathon was three years in the making following the Boston race in fall, 2021. My long-view plan was to maintain my fitness, or even better, sharpen up where I could, and run a strong qualifier for Boston, 2026, when I’ll be in an even older-guy AG. So this was putting a lot of pressure on one race, and I was OK with that. While 2022 was an average year, 2023 was very productive – 60K of elevation (my focus throughout the year, and twice the elevation of any previous year) combined with @-OZ- 's monthly challenges, which were effective (thank you!). The turn to 2024 was difficult due to a respiratory infection, then a hip bursitis issue, and then a lingering, bad cold over the course of three months.

Spring and summer training went well, though, once I got my legs back under me. As I started my marathon training, one key was using a 10-day cycle in which I included three SOS (something of substance) workouts. That approach felt very comfortable. By late July, however, I developed issues with my feet. On my left foot, it was on and off sharp pain by the fifth metatarsal (midway up the outside of the foot). On the right foot, it was some sort of growth/protrusion on the back of the heel (extending further than an existing protrusion from years ago). Ultimately, this cut into my mileage accumulation as I had a hard time running on consecutive days, although the running itself was fine. These issues are still lingering, to some degree. Strategically, I was also aware that I didn’t do enough extended tempo runs.

My first BQ attempt was in late September at the Fox Valley Marathon. But 70-degree temps and 90%+ humidity, combined with the still-adjusting dynamic with new Mizuno super shoes, led to my worst marathon effort ever. I just couldn’t run well. I knew I’d need to try again, so I dropped at mile 21. Soon after, I signed up for the GR race, which ironically was my original plan.


I drove to GR early on Saturday, which is risky. But I went to our summer cottage and did some light yardwork, which I figured would open up the legs after the 3-hour drive in. The yard work went fine, and I met the busty new renter next door, and then drove back into the city to pick up my race packet. I stayed the night at an AirBnB (since my sister was out of town), which was just 15 minutes from the race site.

I slept pretty good and had normal morning routines. I might have overeaten dinner or b’fast (banana and two slices of toast) as I felt a little “full” early in the race, which affected my Gu intake. Otherwise, pre-race went fine. I ran a little over a mile, which I needed to open up my stride, and did some nervous accelerations and pee stops before lining up for the 8 am start.

Miles 1-7 (8:03, 8:03, 8:02, 7:53, 7:39, 8:03, 8:08)

What’s the “right” pace for the day? The multi-year strategy was to still be running around 8:00/mile, which is close to my PR and would be a great pace in 2026. I just went out at an uncomfortably comfortable pace and a HR in the low 150s, and this is what I got. That 7:39 mile is a hint of what I’m capable of with ideal training, I believe.

Miles 8-9 (7:55, 8:04)

As we headed out of downtown GR into a rather undeveloped area along the Grand River, I worried a little about these two miles. I drove them on Saturday, knowing they start with the biggest “hill” of the course followed by some rolling road. But these went great! As I saw in training, I can handle modest hills easily enough, and then I can take advantage of the down slopes. I felt very good about this.

Miles 10-15 (7:55, 8:11, 8:13, 7:58, 8:33, 8:03)

These miles move through some rolling terrain near the river. I wondered if the slow-down in miles 11-12 was a sign of things to come, but mile 13 got me back on track. Mile 14 included a pee stop, which might have been my first ever for a marathon.

Miles 16-21 (7:53, 7:51, 8:02, 8:13, 8:14, 8:25)

These miles were a three-mile out and back on a shaded road along the Grand River. Those first two miles were very encouraging as I look ahead to 2026. I “dropped” an Annie Lennox rockin’ song into my mind and just ran comfortably strong. The three returning miles, however, were a sign of my slowdown.

Through mile 18, though, I was at an 8:00/mile pace (removing the pee stop seconds). Ultimately, that’s the best indicator I take from the race. With good health and solid training, I’d love to be able to hold that pace. Doing so in Boston 2026 could be a top 5 or top 10 AG finish.

Miles 22-finish (8:33, 8:24, 8:52,9:00, 8:41, 8:25)

I didn’t bonk, but I faded. Could I have toughened up? I’d like to think so, but then again, I saw finish line pics, and I very much looked my age. That includes, as I saw with the MCM five years ago, a leftward lean. Ugh. Maybe I could have picked up a minute or two, but it wouldn’t have mattered much. I had thoughts about using a little fartlek, as needed, and that could have shaved some time. And while I frequently referred to my mental “coach” during the race, I had plans to channel some @SteelCurtain pacer encouragement along the way, and that might have helped. But my lower leg muscles were compressing around mile 23.5, and I had hammy issues over the final 2 ½ miles. I should have had a couple of pickle juice shots offered late on the course (even though I hate pickles). My HR wasn’t climbing much at all over this back half, which tells me the limitation was in the legs, not the lungs. The finish was as much as a push as I could give, given the hammies.

All in all, this was good! With some training limitations and a lot of uncertainty after the effort a month before, I’m very happy with how this turned out. It really was a 3:35 effort, but the course ran long even though I’m very aware of running tangents (often running alone along a winding road). Also, this was 5 minutes faster than my effort 15 years ago as my first BQ race …so I can’t complain. Another good indicator is that over the course of the race, I improved my position from 227, 221, 219, 203, 196th (even with the fade).

So on to Boston 2026 training! I might add a 5K this fall. But otherwise, I want to refocus – strength work; flexibility work; swim workouts at my new university; and maybe a fall 2025 marathon to gauge status. Maybe I’ll run this course again in a year. I also need to tighten down my race day hydration/nutrition plans.
 
tri-man 47 said:
Grand Rapids Marathon Race Report

3:36:52 (8:11/mi)

2nd of 13 in AG; 196 of 1,100 overall

TL:DR – I ran an encouraging race and easily qualified for Boston, 2026 with a decent qualifying time …while medal mongering along the way.

This marathon was three years in the making following the Boston race in fall, 2021. My long-view plan was to maintain my fitness, or even better, sharpen up where I could, and run a strong qualifier for Boston, 2026, when I’ll be in an even older-guy AG. So this was putting a lot of pressure on one race, and I was OK with that. While 2022 was an average year, 2023 was very productive – 60K of elevation (my focus throughout the year, and twice the elevation of any previous year) combined with @-OZ- 's monthly challenges, which were effective (thank you!). The turn to 2024 was difficult due to a respiratory infection, then a hip bursitis issue, and then a lingering, bad cold over the course of three months.

Spring and summer training went well, though, once I got my legs back under me. As I started my marathon training, one key was using a 10-day cycle in which I included three SOS (something of substance) workouts. That approach felt very comfortable. By late July, however, I developed issues with my feet. On my left foot, it was on and off sharp pain by the fifth metatarsal (midway up the outside of the foot). On the right foot, it was some sort of growth/protrusion on the back of the heel (extending further than an existing protrusion from years ago). Ultimately, this cut into my mileage accumulation as I had a hard time running on consecutive days, although the running itself was fine. These issues are still lingering, to some degree. Strategically, I was also aware that I didn’t do enough extended tempo runs.

My first BQ attempt was in late September at the Fox Valley Marathon. But 70-degree temps and 90%+ humidity, combined with the still-adjusting dynamic with new Mizuno super shoes, led to my worst marathon effort ever. I just couldn’t run well. I knew I’d need to try again, so I dropped at mile 21. Soon after, I signed up for the GR race, which ironically was my original plan.


I drove to GR early on Saturday, which is risky. But I went to our summer cottage and did some light yardwork, which I figured would open up the legs after the 3-hour drive in. The yard work went fine, and I met the busty new renter next door, and then drove back into the city to pick up my race packet. I stayed the night at an AirBnB (since my sister was out of town), which was just 15 minutes from the race site.

I slept pretty good and had normal morning routines. I might have overeaten dinner or b’fast (banana and two slices of toast) as I felt a little “full” early in the race, which affected my Gu intake. Otherwise, pre-race went fine. I ran a little over a mile, which I needed to open up my stride, and did some nervous accelerations and pee stops before lining up for the 8 am start.

Miles 1-7 (8:03, 8:03, 8:02, 7:53, 7:39, 8:03, 8:08)

What’s the “right” pace for the day? The multi-year strategy was to still be running around 8:00/mile, which is close to my PR and would be a great pace in 2026. I just went out at an uncomfortably comfortable pace and a HR in the low 150s, and this is what I got. That 7:39 mile is a hint of what I’m capable of with ideal training, I believe.

Miles 8-9 (7:55, 8:04)

As we headed out of downtown GR into a rather undeveloped area along the Grand River, I worried a little about these two miles. I drove them on Saturday, knowing they start with the biggest “hill” of the course followed by some rolling road. But these went great! As I saw in training, I can handle modest hills easily enough, and then I can take advantage of the down slopes. I felt very good about this.

Miles 10-15 (7:55, 8:11, 8:13, 7:58, 8:33, 8:03)

These miles move through some rolling terrain near the river. I wondered if the slow-down in miles 11-12 was a sign of things to come, but mile 13 got me back on track. Mile 14 included a pee stop, which might have been my first ever for a marathon.

Miles 16-21 (7:53, 7:51, 8:02, 8:13, 8:14, 8:25)

These miles were a three-mile out and back on a shaded road along the Grand River. Those first two miles were very encouraging as I look ahead to 2026. I “dropped” an Annie Lennox rockin’ song into my mind and just ran comfortably strong. The three returning miles, however, were a sign of my slowdown.

Through mile 18, though, I was at an 8:00/mile pace (removing the pee stop seconds). Ultimately, that’s the best indicator I take from the race. With good health and solid training, I’d love to be able to hold that pace. Doing so in Boston 2026 could be a top 5 or top 10 AG finish.

Miles 22-finish (8:33, 8:24, 8:52,9:00, 8:41, 8:25)

I didn’t bonk, but I faded. Could I have toughened up? I’d like to think so, but then again, I saw finish line pics, and I very much looked my age. That includes, as I saw with the MCM five years ago, a leftward lean. Ugh. Maybe I could have picked up a minute or two, but it wouldn’t have mattered much. I had thoughts about using a little fartlek, as needed, and that could have shaved some time. And while I frequently referred to my mental “coach” during the race, I had plans to channel some @SteelCurtain pacer encouragement along the way, and that might have helped. But my lower leg muscles were compressing around mile 23.5, and I had hammy issues over the final 2 ½ miles. I should have had a couple of pickle juice shots offered late on the course (even though I hate pickles). My HR wasn’t climbing much at all over this back half, which tells me the limitation was in the legs, not the lungs. The finish was as much as a push as I could give, given the hammies.

All in all, this was good! With some training limitations and a lot of uncertainty after the effort a month before, I’m very happy with how this turned out. It really was a 3:35 effort, but the course ran long even though I’m very aware of running tangents (often running alone along a winding road). Also, this was 5 minutes faster than my effort 15 years ago as my first BQ race …so I can’t complain. Another good indicator is that over the course of the race, I improved my position from 227, 221, 219, 203, 196th (even with the fade).

So on to Boston 2026 training! I might add a 5K this fall. But otherwise, I want to refocus – strength work; flexibility work; swim workouts at my new university; and maybe a fall 2025 marathon to gauge status. Maybe I’ll run this course again in a year. I also need to tighten down my race day hydration/nutrition plans.
Click to expand...
Awesome work!
Swimming at the university sounds perfect.
 
tri-man 47 said:
Grand Rapids Marathon Race Report

3:36:52 (8:11/mi)

2nd of 13 in AG; 196 of 1,100 overall

TL:DR – I ran an encouraging race and easily qualified for Boston, 2026 with a decent qualifying time …while medal mongering along the way.

This marathon was three years in the making following the Boston race in fall, 2021. My long-view plan was to maintain my fitness, or even better, sharpen up where I could, and run a strong qualifier for Boston, 2026, when I’ll be in an even older-guy AG. So this was putting a lot of pressure on one race, and I was OK with that. While 2022 was an average year, 2023 was very productive – 60K of elevation (my focus throughout the year, and twice the elevation of any previous year) combined with @-OZ- 's monthly challenges, which were effective (thank you!). The turn to 2024 was difficult due to a respiratory infection, then a hip bursitis issue, and then a lingering, bad cold over the course of three months.

Spring and summer training went well, though, once I got my legs back under me. As I started my marathon training, one key was using a 10-day cycle in which I included three SOS (something of substance) workouts. That approach felt very comfortable. By late July, however, I developed issues with my feet. On my left foot, it was on and off sharp pain by the fifth metatarsal (midway up the outside of the foot). On the right foot, it was some sort of growth/protrusion on the back of the heel (extending further than an existing protrusion from years ago). Ultimately, this cut into my mileage accumulation as I had a hard time running on consecutive days, although the running itself was fine. These issues are still lingering, to some degree. Strategically, I was also aware that I didn’t do enough extended tempo runs.

My first BQ attempt was in late September at the Fox Valley Marathon. But 70-degree temps and 90%+ humidity, combined with the still-adjusting dynamic with new Mizuno super shoes, led to my worst marathon effort ever. I just couldn’t run well. I knew I’d need to try again, so I dropped at mile 21. Soon after, I signed up for the GR race, which ironically was my original plan.


I drove to GR early on Saturday, which is risky. But I went to our summer cottage and did some light yardwork, which I figured would open up the legs after the 3-hour drive in. The yard work went fine, and I met the busty new renter next door, and then drove back into the city to pick up my race packet. I stayed the night at an AirBnB (since my sister was out of town), which was just 15 minutes from the race site.

I slept pretty good and had normal morning routines. I might have overeaten dinner or b’fast (banana and two slices of toast) as I felt a little “full” early in the race, which affected my Gu intake. Otherwise, pre-race went fine. I ran a little over a mile, which I needed to open up my stride, and did some nervous accelerations and pee stops before lining up for the 8 am start.

Miles 1-7 (8:03, 8:03, 8:02, 7:53, 7:39, 8:03, 8:08)

What’s the “right” pace for the day? The multi-year strategy was to still be running around 8:00/mile, which is close to my PR and would be a great pace in 2026. I just went out at an uncomfortably comfortable pace and a HR in the low 150s, and this is what I got. That 7:39 mile is a hint of what I’m capable of with ideal training, I believe.

Miles 8-9 (7:55, 8:04)

As we headed out of downtown GR into a rather undeveloped area along the Grand River, I worried a little about these two miles. I drove them on Saturday, knowing they start with the biggest “hill” of the course followed by some rolling road. But these went great! As I saw in training, I can handle modest hills easily enough, and then I can take advantage of the down slopes. I felt very good about this.

Miles 10-15 (7:55, 8:11, 8:13, 7:58, 8:33, 8:03)

These miles move through some rolling terrain near the river. I wondered if the slow-down in miles 11-12 was a sign of things to come, but mile 13 got me back on track. Mile 14 included a pee stop, which might have been my first ever for a marathon.

Miles 16-21 (7:53, 7:51, 8:02, 8:13, 8:14, 8:25)

These miles were a three-mile out and back on a shaded road along the Grand River. Those first two miles were very encouraging as I look ahead to 2026. I “dropped” an Annie Lennox rockin’ song into my mind and just ran comfortably strong. The three returning miles, however, were a sign of my slowdown.

Through mile 18, though, I was at an 8:00/mile pace (removing the pee stop seconds). Ultimately, that’s the best indicator I take from the race. With good health and solid training, I’d love to be able to hold that pace. Doing so in Boston 2026 could be a top 5 or top 10 AG finish.

Miles 22-finish (8:33, 8:24, 8:52,9:00, 8:41, 8:25)

I didn’t bonk, but I faded. Could I have toughened up? I’d like to think so, but then again, I saw finish line pics, and I very much looked my age. That includes, as I saw with the MCM five years ago, a leftward lean. Ugh. Maybe I could have picked up a minute or two, but it wouldn’t have mattered much. I had thoughts about using a little fartlek, as needed, and that could have shaved some time. And while I frequently referred to my mental “coach” during the race, I had plans to channel some @SteelCurtain pacer encouragement along the way, and that might have helped. But my lower leg muscles were compressing around mile 23.5, and I had hammy issues over the final 2 ½ miles. I should have had a couple of pickle juice shots offered late on the course (even though I hate pickles). My HR wasn’t climbing much at all over this back half, which tells me the limitation was in the legs, not the lungs. The finish was as much as a push as I could give, given the hammies.

All in all, this was good! With some training limitations and a lot of uncertainty after the effort a month before, I’m very happy with how this turned out. It really was a 3:35 effort, but the course ran long even though I’m very aware of running tangents (often running alone along a winding road). Also, this was 5 minutes faster than my effort 15 years ago as my first BQ race …so I can’t complain. Another good indicator is that over the course of the race, I improved my position from 227, 221, 219, 203, 196th (even with the fade).

So on to Boston 2026 training! I might add a 5K this fall. But otherwise, I want to refocus – strength work; flexibility work; swim workouts at my new university; and maybe a fall 2025 marathon to gauge status. Maybe I’ll run this course again in a year. I also need to tighten down my race day hydration/nutrition plans.
Click to expand...

Excellent result for a monster time. Your BQ buffer is so ridiculous, just shows how much of a stud you are :thumbup:

You mentioned nutrition. What was your plan during the race? I intentionally ate a ton during the week prior to the race, and the morning of, I was not at all hungry. I still forced down 90% of a peanut butter sandwich and then ate a mini take 5 bar right before the race.

During the race, I planned on GUs at 7, 14, and 21. I ended up taking one at 6.5 and 16, and that was it. I have a really hard time ingesting food/calories late in races. It makes me feel like I want to puke when I try at that exhaustion level.
 

- YouTube

Auf YouTube findest du die angesagtesten Videos und Tracks. Außerdem kannst du eigene Inhalte hochladen und mit Freunden oder gleich der ganzen Welt teilen.
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Crazy high quality coverage of Javalina race from out in the desert. Course record watch is on.
 
xulf said:
tri-man 47 said:
Grand Rapids Marathon Race Report

3:36:52 (8:11/mi)

2nd of 13 in AG; 196 of 1,100 overall

TL:DR – I ran an encouraging race and easily qualified for Boston, 2026 with a decent qualifying time …while medal mongering along the way.

This marathon was three years in the making following the Boston race in fall, 2021. My long-view plan was to maintain my fitness, or even better, sharpen up where I could, and run a strong qualifier for Boston, 2026, when I’ll be in an even older-guy AG. So this was putting a lot of pressure on one race, and I was OK with that. While 2022 was an average year, 2023 was very productive – 60K of elevation (my focus throughout the year, and twice the elevation of any previous year) combined with @-OZ- 's monthly challenges, which were effective (thank you!). The turn to 2024 was difficult due to a respiratory infection, then a hip bursitis issue, and then a lingering, bad cold over the course of three months.

Spring and summer training went well, though, once I got my legs back under me. As I started my marathon training, one key was using a 10-day cycle in which I included three SOS (something of substance) workouts. That approach felt very comfortable. By late July, however, I developed issues with my feet. On my left foot, it was on and off sharp pain by the fifth metatarsal (midway up the outside of the foot). On the right foot, it was some sort of growth/protrusion on the back of the heel (extending further than an existing protrusion from years ago). Ultimately, this cut into my mileage accumulation as I had a hard time running on consecutive days, although the running itself was fine. These issues are still lingering, to some degree. Strategically, I was also aware that I didn’t do enough extended tempo runs.

My first BQ attempt was in late September at the Fox Valley Marathon. But 70-degree temps and 90%+ humidity, combined with the still-adjusting dynamic with new Mizuno super shoes, led to my worst marathon effort ever. I just couldn’t run well. I knew I’d need to try again, so I dropped at mile 21. Soon after, I signed up for the GR race, which ironically was my original plan.


I drove to GR early on Saturday, which is risky. But I went to our summer cottage and did some light yardwork, which I figured would open up the legs after the 3-hour drive in. The yard work went fine, and I met the busty new renter next door, and then drove back into the city to pick up my race packet. I stayed the night at an AirBnB (since my sister was out of town), which was just 15 minutes from the race site.

I slept pretty good and had normal morning routines. I might have overeaten dinner or b’fast (banana and two slices of toast) as I felt a little “full” early in the race, which affected my Gu intake. Otherwise, pre-race went fine. I ran a little over a mile, which I needed to open up my stride, and did some nervous accelerations and pee stops before lining up for the 8 am start.

Miles 1-7 (8:03, 8:03, 8:02, 7:53, 7:39, 8:03, 8:08)

What’s the “right” pace for the day? The multi-year strategy was to still be running around 8:00/mile, which is close to my PR and would be a great pace in 2026. I just went out at an uncomfortably comfortable pace and a HR in the low 150s, and this is what I got. That 7:39 mile is a hint of what I’m capable of with ideal training, I believe.

Miles 8-9 (7:55, 8:04)

As we headed out of downtown GR into a rather undeveloped area along the Grand River, I worried a little about these two miles. I drove them on Saturday, knowing they start with the biggest “hill” of the course followed by some rolling road. But these went great! As I saw in training, I can handle modest hills easily enough, and then I can take advantage of the down slopes. I felt very good about this.

Miles 10-15 (7:55, 8:11, 8:13, 7:58, 8:33, 8:03)

These miles move through some rolling terrain near the river. I wondered if the slow-down in miles 11-12 was a sign of things to come, but mile 13 got me back on track. Mile 14 included a pee stop, which might have been my first ever for a marathon.

Miles 16-21 (7:53, 7:51, 8:02, 8:13, 8:14, 8:25)

These miles were a three-mile out and back on a shaded road along the Grand River. Those first two miles were very encouraging as I look ahead to 2026. I “dropped” an Annie Lennox rockin’ song into my mind and just ran comfortably strong. The three returning miles, however, were a sign of my slowdown.

Through mile 18, though, I was at an 8:00/mile pace (removing the pee stop seconds). Ultimately, that’s the best indicator I take from the race. With good health and solid training, I’d love to be able to hold that pace. Doing so in Boston 2026 could be a top 5 or top 10 AG finish.

Miles 22-finish (8:33, 8:24, 8:52,9:00, 8:41, 8:25)

I didn’t bonk, but I faded. Could I have toughened up? I’d like to think so, but then again, I saw finish line pics, and I very much looked my age. That includes, as I saw with the MCM five years ago, a leftward lean. Ugh. Maybe I could have picked up a minute or two, but it wouldn’t have mattered much. I had thoughts about using a little fartlek, as needed, and that could have shaved some time. And while I frequently referred to my mental “coach” during the race, I had plans to channel some @SteelCurtain pacer encouragement along the way, and that might have helped. But my lower leg muscles were compressing around mile 23.5, and I had hammy issues over the final 2 ½ miles. I should have had a couple of pickle juice shots offered late on the course (even though I hate pickles). My HR wasn’t climbing much at all over this back half, which tells me the limitation was in the legs, not the lungs. The finish was as much as a push as I could give, given the hammies.

All in all, this was good! With some training limitations and a lot of uncertainty after the effort a month before, I’m very happy with how this turned out. It really was a 3:35 effort, but the course ran long even though I’m very aware of running tangents (often running alone along a winding road). Also, this was 5 minutes faster than my effort 15 years ago as my first BQ race …so I can’t complain. Another good indicator is that over the course of the race, I improved my position from 227, 221, 219, 203, 196th (even with the fade).

So on to Boston 2026 training! I might add a 5K this fall. But otherwise, I want to refocus – strength work; flexibility work; swim workouts at my new university; and maybe a fall 2025 marathon to gauge status. Maybe I’ll run this course again in a year. I also need to tighten down my race day hydration/nutrition plans.
Click to expand...

Excellent result for a monster time. Your BQ buffer is so ridiculous, just shows how much of a stud you are :thumbup:

You mentioned nutrition. What was your plan during the race? I intentionally ate a ton during the week prior to the race, and the morning of, I was not at all hungry. I still forced down 90% of a peanut butter sandwich and then ate a mini take 5 bar right before the race.

During the race, I planned on GUs at 7, 14, and 21. I ended up taking one at 6.5 and 16, and that was it. I have a really hard time ingesting food/calories late in races. It makes me feel like I want to puke when I try at that exhaustion level.
Click to expand...
Back to your question on nutrition: My intent was to take a Gu a little before the start and then have four Gu's during the race. I seem to be able to handle them OK, so the quantity didn't concern me. But feeling too "full" at the start threw me off schedule and I ended up with three Gu's still in my pockets. I took one around mile 8 and another around mile 14. An insufficient intake might have been a reason for the fade over the final miles and some cramping over the final two miles. I am aware that I can get too mentally tired for the simple act of pulling out a Gu and slurping it down, so I tell myself to set a stricter schedule and when the thought comes to act, to just do so before my mind says "nah." All in all, I wasn't deliberate enough with my meals/eating in the prerace week, and I'll need to address that going forward. I might repeat this race next fall with a primary focus being on all the nutrition/hydration aspects.
 
Triple Lakes Trail Race 40 miler race report (1/2)

Buildup
So, most of the thread knows that despite being fairly dedicated to running for the last decade, I’ve never raced anything longer than a half marathon. Until the runup to this race my longest single run was around 15 miles. There were a few reasons for this. One of these was I’m trying to maintain a good balance between running and family. Another is that I’ve never really enjoyed runs longer than 70 minutes or so, and I’ve also found running more than 3 or 4 times per week I usually ended up injured or at least hobbled. Given that I know if I ever raced a marathon, I’d be looking at all of those conversion charts and worried about getting a “good” time versus my other distances, the whole process always seemed very fraught.

On the other hand, I still wanted to try my hand at something longer, and triman aside, I know that can get a little dicey as one gets older, so I’ve been cognizant of not knowing how long I would realistically have to do so before my body starts to have major issues with long distances. Because of this, I’d been considering ultras in my mind for at least 5 years or so. The problem is that PA ultras are pretty unappealing to me because the trails tend to be so rocky and technical. There was a localish backyard ultra that was less so that I had been eyeing, but apparently it’s now defunct. On the other hand, my oldest daughter is in NC for at least the next year, and I had run a few trails down there and they seemed a lot less likely for one to split their head open. So I stumbled across a race in the fall in Greensboro, and decided to plan a visit around it. 40 miles instead of 50K wasn’t ideal for somebody with my volume, but beggars can’t be choosers.

Before I took the plunge and signed up, I had been thinking I’d largely coast on my good fitness from the spring half PR, but after I was committed and came to my senses I realized that would be pretty stupid, so with my short window and busy schedule I decided to completely prioritize the long run, even it made my workout weeks look ridiculous (e.g., 6 miles, 5 miles, 16 miles for a week). I got in a 20 mile run on a local trail as well as a 17 mile run on that same trail two weeks later. This was definitely a good thing, because both days were unusually hot and I learned that I wasn’t drinking nearly enough. I was also beat up enough afterwards to know race day was going to be a bit of a meat grinder, but I was committed at this point.

My worries about what would derail my race were as follows:
  • Not drinking enough – I knew I needed to make this a priority, particularly based on my long runs and with race day high near 80.
  • Not eating enough/gastro issues – I have a pretty iron stomach, but I’ve still read enough to know that I had to be deliberate with taking in nutrition
  • Blisters/chafing – was mainly worried about the former, but picked up and applied body glide just in case
  • Legs holding up to the pounding – particularly with my low mileage, but there wasn’t much I could do to mitigate this. I did buy some newish Cliftons to make sure I was running on cushioned, non-worn out shoes
Pre-race
The wife and I did the 7+hour drive down Thursday night after work, so we got in late. Friday I met a former coworker for lunch to catch up, did some light shopping, then we hung out with my daughter the rest of the day at her place. Woke up around 5:30 race day, ate some cereal and had my coffee. Left for the hour drive at 6:15, picked up my bib. I used the port-o-pot only semi-successfully and then it was time to walk down to the corral. Roughly 700 people for the half, 70 for the full, 70 for the 40 mile. Half went off 5 minutes before the other two.
 
Triple Lakes Trail Race 40 Mile Race Report(2 of 2)

The Race (broken into sections between aid stations)

Miles 0-6.6 (11:37/mi)

After an initial section on the greenway the course quickly moved to single track. Because the half marathon shares the course for the first 6 miles or so, things were very crowded here. I wasn’t too upset about this because going out too fast has always been a big failure mode for me. Not knowing the course, I was surprised that it was much more technical than I had anticipated. Don’t get me wrong, it’s nothing crazy and it’s almost all eminently runnable if one is so inclined, but there were way more roots than I expected, and that would end up putting a lot of stress on my feet. I guess the finishing times in the past versus the elevation profile should have clued me in. The plus side versus expectation is that the course is almost entirely shaded, which was important with temperatures nearing 80 in the middle of the race. The downside of technical + crowded is that it was hard to see up ahead, and 80% of my tripping occurred in the first ¼ of the race. The gnarlier sections also made my “don’t run for more than 15 minutes straight” plan moot, as there were always at least little sections where walking was clearly the right play for me.

Incidentally, while prerace I was worried about heat, after running the course what I really should have been worried about was rain. There were extended sections that would have been a slippery nightmare if it was wet, so I dodged that weather whammy in hindsight.

Miles 6.6-11.9 (11:15/mi)

Less up and downs here, which between that and thinning out had me moving a little faster. I did trip and fall during mile 9, bruising and scraping my hands a bit. Somewhere during this section, either due to that trip or an earlier trip, my right IT band started acting up. I had issues with this probably a decade ago but it’s been totally fine for years, so I have to assume it was a bad step or two. It was tender but manageable, but having 30 miles to go and already being in some pain was pretty ominous. My right toes were also feeling blistery which confused me, until I got to the aid station and realized that shoe had somehow come untied. Oops.

Miles 11.9-18.9 (11:26/mi)

The wife and daughter met me at this aid station, so I stopped for a bit to chat. I also pounded a fair amount of water here as I realized I was a bit behind. This is a pretty easy stretch, but I knew I should hold back as I already had a large amount of fatigue and wear.

Miles 18.9-24.4 (12:10/mi)

Out and back to and from the turnaround here. Halfway is always a big milestone for me, and somewhere before halfway the thought of dropping popped into my head as I knew a wall of pain was eventually coming, but if I quit I’d have to sign up for another one of these to actually finish, plus my family had come with me, and I pushed it out of my mind and didn’t really think about it again. I was surprised that I was intermittently passing people in this section, because I didn’t feel like I was moving all that well.

Miles 24.4-32 (14:17/mi)

This was the other easier stretch, but I was really feeling it and not taking good advantage of it. My wife walked a bit with me from an aid station in the middle of the section, and I snacked and used a portable massager during that time. The visit slowed me down a bit but was very welcome for a mental boost. Shortly after that I came across a friendly young lady, and we ran a nice 4 miles together in the 11:00-12:00 range. I would have loved to stay with her, but the muscles in my feet as well as my right IT band were really unhappy by this point, and I warned her before the aid station that I was going to walk the first 5 minutes out of there and that she should keep running her race. I wouldn’t see her again until the finish. Surprisingly I’m pretty sure she’s the only person that passed me in the last 25 miles.

Miles 32-37.4 (14:45/mi)

This was the nadir for me, with a lot of walking and pain and a seemingly interminable distance ahead of me. I met my wife again during this stretch, and I think sensing my mood she passed along messages from my kids, siblings, and other family members. The encouragement and support definitely helped keep me going. Towards the end of this section I came to the startling realization that running and taking biggish strides was actually slightly less painful than walking, so I started moving better. The problem was that I would run for a few minutes and then take a goofy step, leading to a flash of pain that would push me back to walking. This cycle would basically repeat for the last 5 miles.

Miles 37.4-41.4 (12:56/mi)

I was now moving pretty decently here doing the long strides then walk thing, especially considering that we were back to the rolling hills with lots of roots. I held back a bit though because I didn’t actually know +/- a mile where the finish was. I passed two guys in rough shape with a mile or so to go. Soon I could hear the finish line, and when I was certain it was indeed shortly ahead went back to running, made the final turn waving to my wife and daughter, then did a sort of long hop over the timing mat that the photographer somehow caught perfectly and gave me a nice finishing photo for once. I then hobbled over to the picnic tables and had my wife get me some bacon and a coke.

Final Time : 9:08:44 (13:14/mi), 27th out of 52 finishers.

Avg moving pace 12:28/mi. 5:25:16 running, 3:17:27 walking, 26:01 idle according to Garmin

Post-race thoughts
When I signed up, I had to enter a time, so I swagged 8:30. I came in substantially slower than that, but I would describe myself as content with my time as I didn’t have any firm expectations and I knew realistically the whole ordeal was a stretch for my training. I would have been mildly disappointed to be over 10 hours, and I would have considered missing the 12 hour cutoff or any other DNF as a failure.

Interestingly, out of the things I was worried about, most were manageable. I drank enough, as evidenced by a few pit stops in the woods. I was able to get enough calories down, and apart from a sour burp or two my stomach held up. My feet were a bit blistered and painful but not enough to really slow me down, and I had absolutely no chafing anywhere else. The IT was a bummer and a hindrance, and part of me wonders what a different race day without that issue would have yielded, as it definitely wasn’t my aerobic fitness that held me back. On the other hand, what I think ultimately would have still limited me was the muscles in my feet not being conditioned to take the pounding required, which would have required a lot more mileage from me to mitigate. The day after every step was agonizing due to the muscles on the bottom of my feet being absolutely trashed. Fortunately that abated pretty quickly, and I walked with my coworkers Monday afternoon with some discomfort but at my usual pace.

I went into this race viewing it as probably being a bucket list, one time thing, and I think that’s where I’m still at. I’m extremely glad I did it, as it was a race experience unlike anything else I’ve ever done, and it will definitely be a fond memory once the short term pain fades. Which speaking of, 6 days later things are pretty good : some minor feet complaints yet, and the hips are still surprisingly tender, but other than that I’m feeling pretty good. I’ve got my Thanksgiving weekend and New Year’s 5Ks coming up, but other than those no future plans, so I’ll have to think about that as the year closes out.
 
Dr_Zaius said:
My worries about what would derail my race were as follows:
  • Not drinking enough – I knew I needed to make this a priority, particularly based on my long runs and with race day high near 80.
  • Not eating enough/gastro issues – I have a pretty iron stomach, but I’ve still read enough to know that I had to be deliberate with taking in nutrition
Click to expand...

Did you carry water with you during the race? What was your nutrition plan? Were you able to follow it?

Dr_Zaius said:
Final Time : 9:08:44 (13:14/mi), 27th out of 52 finishers.

Avg moving pace 12:28/mi. 5:25:16 running, 3:17:27 walking, 26:01 idle according to Garmin
Click to expand...
Impressive result, especially so considering you never raced longer than a half prior. Great race report.
 
Way to go, @Dr_Zaius !!! It sounds like that angel showed up at just the right time after the midway point to keep you focused for those 4 miles. A lot of things could go wrong over 9 hours, so it's great that it all came together for a successful day. BMF!!!

:pickle:
 
pbm107 said:
Dr_Zaius said:
My worries about what would derail my race were as follows:
  • Not drinking enough – I knew I needed to make this a priority, particularly based on my long runs and with race day high near 80.
  • Not eating enough/gastro issues – I have a pretty iron stomach, but I’ve still read enough to know that I had to be deliberate with taking in nutrition
Click to expand...

Did you carry water with you during the race? What was your nutrition plan? Were you able to follow it?
Click to expand...
I had a Salomon vest and two soft flasks that each held 500mL. I drank from them sporadically between aid stations, and then at the stations I drank from the reusable cup they gave me at the start and would top up the flasks. I drank a fair amount of Coke on the back half in addition to the water.

For nutrition, I packed 4 honey stinger energy waffles, 2 bags of pretzels and 2 bags of Ritz crackers that should have been roughly 200 calories per bag. The plan was to largely use the aid stations, but to have bare minimum to get by on me should I have to rely on what was in my pack. I wanted to have an emergency reserve because I am allergic to both peanuts and mustard, so I didn't want to bank getting stuff at every aid station. In the end I ended up eating one of the pretzel bags, one of the cracker bags, and one of the waffles. The rest I took from the aid stations : more pretzels, a strip of bacon at a couple of them, some Oreo cookies, a few orange slices and a couple of bananas. I basically ate what appealed to me at the time and didn't adhere to a strict schedule. I broke out the crackers right away somewhere on the back half when I suddenly got a hunger urge. In hindsight I should have maybe been a little more structured by tracking the last time I had eaten to make sure there was always something digesting, but it worked out. I probably had a bit of buffer since I wasn't going all out aerobically, where I'd imagine I'd have been much more on a knife's edge between too much and too little.
 
Zasada said:
Dr_Zaius said:
some Oreo cookies,
Click to expand...

Boss move here!

Great race, and great RR. Hopefully you have the ultra/trail bug now and look to try another!

Maybe R2R2R in your future???
Click to expand...
I do like trail runs. Unfortunately I don't have many that are super close to me. I've been passively looking for a wooded property as a getaway spot which would mitigate that, but real estate is still so crazy in this area right now. I will probably make sure to do the local Trail 15K next summer. It's a great race, but it sells out early and my summer schedule is always a bit up in the air, so it's been years since I ran it, but I really should make it a priority to do it again.

It's funny on the Oreos, because typically they're not usually my thing, but boy did they taste good!
 
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