Ran a 10k - Official Thread (11 Viewers)

[Juxtatarot]

I decided to pass on Boston for next year.  I'll run Chicago 2019 instead for my annual marathon attempt.  I haven't run Chicago since 2015 so it will be fun to experience it again.  Plus it's nice to sleep in my own bed and follow a pre-race nutrition plan from home.  I'm not sure what I'll do for next spring but I hope to keep at it so I don't have too great a loss in fitness.

 

[gianmarco]

Hey guys,

Just recovering from trip/race yesterday and then work so didn't look too closely afterward but now looking a bit more, it got me thinking about how things went and something that doesn't make sense to me.

My HR yesterday was pretty low overall.  Average HR of 158 for the entire race.  And the first 2 miles (which were 2 of my fastest) it was only ~150 (even in the upper 140's).  Now, I know the weather changed which helps, but that's still better than some of my recent slower runs.  And that overall HR is lower than most of my slower longer runs as well by a decent amount not to mention my tempo workouts. 

I'm pretty sure the HR was right because when I felt the worst right around mile 4, it was up to 170, so it otherwise seemed right.  And even stranger, I was able to get it back down toward the end of the race and even back in the 150's for a few moments. 

1)  Does that seem right or is it likely something was off?

2)  If that's right, is it a fitness thing or a weather thing or a combo of both?

3)  If that's right, does that mean I should have been pushing harder to start?  How do you use your HR during a race?  Without using it before or understanding how to use it during a race, it would seem that I had potential to push that HR higher and still be ok, although maybe that's not the case. 

4)  So I "felt" tired at the end of the race, but honestly, I think it was more my legs than my fitness and I know I didn't fuel well enough the previous couple days.  Could that explain why I couldn't go faster despite a HR that I'm used to running at without fatiguing? 

I was really surprised to see it so low at the end of the race and just trying to understand what happened and what to do with that info next time.

Lastly, I know part of this race was to help me figure out how to race in 1 month.  Using this calculator (which has served me well so far), things are lining up pretty consistently.  I put my Strava time in there, and based on my run yesterday, here are some equivalents:

1 mile -- 6:39 (mine is 6:38)
5K  -- 22:58 (mine is 23:00 chip time and 22:54 on Strava)

So those shorter distances lineup almost perfectly with my 10K yesterday.  Taking it to the HM, it says 1:45:37 (8:03 pace).  I'm thinking at this point that I should just make that my goal.  I might make sub 1:45:00 my A goal (8:00 pace), 8:05 pace or better as my B goal, and just finishing the damn thing as my C goal (which still has me a bit nervous).  Does that seem reasonable at this point?

 

[gianmarco]

I always go all out for tune up races with the exception of being a little fatigued from not doing a proper taper.  I really can't help it. 

Edit to add:  My 5K, 10K and half marathon PRs were all set at tune ups.

I echo @Juxtatarot - at that point in the training schedule I wouldn't taper (except take the day before off), but the race is all I got.  Just don't schedule anything intense for a few days after - maintain the mileage but it's all easy until your body gives you the thumbs up again.

Glad you guys told me this and I listened.  Definitely feel better overall having done that, learned some stuff, and would have been disappointed if I took it easier knowing I could have done more. 

 

[MAC_32]

Sub 1:45 is your A goal and if yesterday is any indication I think if your body and the weather are clicking then you'll be able to pick it up for the final 5K too.

I think your lower HR yesterday is just a function of the weather - correct me if I'm wrong, but it hasn't seemed like you've ran in a sub 140 suck since April.  You just didn't have to work as hard yesterday as the last 4-5 months.  You're also experiencing fitness gains, but because you simply have not been able to cut it loose (again, weather) your body's not there yet.

Once you've surprised yourself with your half performance next month then I'd consider upping the intensity and see how low you can get that December 15K.  You're set up for some major gains the next 3 months if you maintain consistency.

 

[pbm107]

I decided to pass on Boston for next year.  I'll run Chicago 2019 instead for my annual marathon attempt.  I haven't run Chicago since 2015 so it will be fun to experience it again.  Plus it's nice to sleep in my own bed and follow a pre-race nutrition plan from home.  I'm not sure what I'll do for next spring but I hope to keep at it so I don't have too great a loss in fitness.

You've had a heck of year so far setting PRs in the 5K and Full in local races as far as I can tell.  Sounds like a good idea running Chicago again, the weather will likely be better than Boston.  Considering you ran a 18:15 a week before a 1:22:38 this year I am looking forward to your new half PR.

 

[gianmarco]

Sub 1:45 is your A goal and if yesterday is any indication I think if your body and the weather are clicking then you'll be able to pick it up for the final 5K too.

I think your lower HR yesterday is just a function of the weather - correct me if I'm wrong, but it hasn't seemed like you've ran in a sub 140 suck since April.  You just didn't have to work as hard yesterday as the last 4-5 months.  You're also experiencing fitness gains, but because you simply have not been able to cut it loose (again, weather) your body's not there yet.

Once you've surprised yourself with your half performance next month then I'd consider upping the intensity and see how low you can get that December 15K.  You're set up for some major gains the next 3 months if you maintain consistency.

Crazy, but yeah, nothing really sub 140 for the last 5 months (and often over 150).  Should I have pushed harder yesterday until that HR was more in the 160-165 range when I'm used to working more?  How do you use that during your race?  Or, for a longer race do you try to keep it lower to start? 

 

[pbm107]

3)  If that's right, does that mean I should have been pushing harder to start?  How do you use your HR during a race?

I wouldn't recommend running the start any faster, it's not like you ran a huge negative split or anything.  From your report it seems like you paced yourself really well.  In a race of that distance I don't want to know my HR, so I don't display it.

Lastly, I know part of this race was to help me figure out how to race in 1 month.  Using this calculator (which has served me well so far), things are lining up pretty consistently.

Be careful with that calculator, it is fairly aggressive as you go up in distance.  When I plug in my 5K time, I can't come close to the expected marathon time.

 

[bushdocda]

I think you’re asking the right questions, hard to know how hard to push at different distances/races. You hit a good one yesterday and will know more on pacing the next 10k. It’s hard to look back and say you should have pushed harder/faster to a higher HR as it could have led to flameout.  

But if your goal was to puke then yes you should have pressed ?

 

[tri-man 47]

1)  Does that seem right or is it likely something was off?

2)  If that's right, is it a fitness thing or a weather thing or a combo of both?

3)  If that's right, does that mean I should have been pushing harder to start?  How do you use your HR during a race?  Without using it before or understanding how to use it during a race, it would seem that I had potential to push that HR higher and still be ok, although maybe that's not the case. 

4)  So I "felt" tired at the end of the race, but honestly, I think it was more my legs than my fitness and I know I didn't fuel well enough the previous couple days.  Could that explain why I couldn't go faster despite a HR that I'm used to running at without fatiguing? 

(#1/2) The data should be accurate, if it was recording and not having wild fluctuations. If your HR dropped, you might have backed off your effort to some degree ...or possibly mile 4 was higher as you stressed out. 

(#3) I gather HR data during my training, especially for longer races where I find it more relevant (HM and marathon).  During the race, as oft-stated here, I'll run by HR and only take some glances at pace.  Knowing the HR data, I know whether to back off or push harder.  It's not just casual data to me.  Early in a long race, seeing my HR in an appropriate range gives me great confidence and effectively tricks my own mind to not worry about the mileage, the competition, the weather, etc.  I just know the heart's doing what it's supposed to be doing, and so I just keep running.

 

[gianmarco]

I wouldn't recommend running the start any faster, it's not like you ran a huge negative split or anything.  From your report it seems like you paced yourself really well.  In a race of that distance I don't want to know my HR, so I don't display it.

Be careful with that calculator, it is fairly aggressive as you go up in distance.  When I plug in my 5K time, I can't come close to the expected marathon time.

Just looked at McMillan and yeah, it has a slower HM pace for me (8:09) with almost identical times for 1 mile and 5K based on my time yesterday.  Ugh....I don't want to crash and burn, especially with this being my first half and not knowing what to fully expect. 

 

[Juxtatarot]

Just looked at McMillan and yeah, it has a slower HM pace for me (8:09) with almost identical times for 1 mile and 5K based on my time yesterday.  Ugh....I don't want to crash and burn, especially with this being my first half and not knowing what to fully expect. 

Right, I think you should err on the conservative side.  If you keep running consistently, there will be plenty of opportunities to go for broke trying to break previous PRs.  I'd just like to see you continue having successes.

 

[gianmarco]

(#1/2) The data should be accurate, if it was recording and not having wild fluctuations. If your HR dropped, you might have backed off your effort to some degree ...or possibly mile 4 was higher as you stressed out. 

(#3) I gather HR data during my training, especially for longer races where I find it more relevant (HM and marathon).  During the race, as oft-stated here, I'll run by HR and only take some glances at pace.  Knowing the HR data, I know whether to back off or push harder.  It's not just casual data to me.  Early in a long race, seeing my HR in an appropriate range gives me great confidence and effectively tricks my own mind to not worry about the mileage, the competition, the weather, etc.  I just know the heart's doing what it's supposed to be doing, and so I just keep running.

That's so helpful.

So for a HM, where do you want that range?  Does it stay the same the whole race?  Right now, I know 150ish is where I have a little effort but still comfortable.  155-160 is where I'm in that comfortably uncomfortable range.  Once I start to get in the 165-170 range, I start to not feel as well if I'm holding it there consistently (and I can always tell when I'm there or getting there just like I did yesterday or toward the end of my long runs at times). 

I'm guessing I would want to start early for the first couple miles ~150, then try to get into that 155-160 range and just hold it?  If it goes higher, back it off?  And then toward the end, can push into that 165-170 range for the end? 

I was thinking about it from yesterday, I mean, I was chatting with that guy for almost 2 miles and held a conversation pretty well without being out of breath so the HR data makes sense.  But, as @bushdocda just said above, I may have crashed and burned if I did more to start.

 

[Juxtatarot]

You've had a heck of year so far setting PRs in the 5K and Full in local races as far as I can tell.  Sounds like a good idea running Chicago again, the weather will likely be better than Boston.  Considering you ran a 18:15 a week before a 1:22:38 this year I am looking forward to your new half PR.

Thanks!  One think I've noticed about 5Ks is I tend to do a little better when it's warmer (meaning maybe 50s and 60s).  Maybe I can't stay warmed up when it's in the 20s and 30s?  I also have noticed my breathing is worse (I think, just from memory) during the cold ones even if my heart rate stays lower.  I know that combo might not make sense.

 

[MAC_32]

Crazy, but yeah, nothing really sub 140 for the last 5 months (and often over 150).  Should I have pushed harder yesterday until that HR was more in the 160-165 range when I'm used to working more?  How do you use that during your race?  Or, for a longer race do you try to keep it lower to start? 

Your questions aren't bad ones, but I think you just need some harder training days in optimal conditions and not what you've been tasked with this summer.  

 

[tri-man 47]

So for a HM, where do you want that range?  Does it stay the same the whole race?  Right now, I know 150ish is where I have a little effort but still comfortable.  155-160 is where I'm in that comfortably uncomfortable range.  Once I start to get in the 165-170 range, I start to not feel as well if I'm holding it there consistently (and I can always tell when I'm there or getting there just like I did yesterday or toward the end of my long runs at times). 

I'm guessing I would want to start early for the first couple miles ~150, then try to get into that 155-160 range and just hold it?  If it goes higher, back it off?  And then toward the end, can push into that 165-170 range for the end? 

I was thinking about it from yesterday, I mean, I was chatting with that guy for almost 2 miles and held a conversation pretty well without being out of breath so the HR data makes sense.  But, as @bushdocda just said above, I may have crashed and burned if I did more to start.

Asked and answered!  As you state in the middle, the HR starts at a lower level - your conversational pace - and slowly climbs as the heart works harder to fuel the muscles as they tire.  Toward the end, as you max out your effort, the HR will approach your max.  The beauty is in those early miles where the HR tells you, in a totally objective manner, that yes, you're in control and running at a sustainable pace (or maybe can afford to push a little harder).  You don't have to assess temperature, humidity, course conditions, stress ...the HR naturally adapts to all that.  You can just run with confidence with no worries about 'can I sustain this?'

 

[bushdocda]

I don’t have much experience in getting my HR up as high as a lot of folks do/can and I have even less in trying to hold it there. Looking back on some races of varying distances, i am in the 160s the bulk of the time racing and end up into the 170s at the end.

I hope that more training and good conditions can combine to be able to push both the top end higher and extend the duration I can hold a given race pace. I guess that’s the name of the game really.  

 

[ChiefD]

That's so helpful.

So for a HM, where do you want that range?  Does it stay the same the whole race?  Right now, I know 150ish is where I have a little effort but still comfortable.  155-160 is where I'm in that comfortably uncomfortable range.  Once I start to get in the 165-170 range, I start to not feel as well if I'm holding it there consistently (and I can always tell when I'm there or getting there just like I did yesterday or toward the end of my long runs at times). 

I'm guessing I would want to start early for the first couple miles ~150, then try to get into that 155-160 range and just hold it?  If it goes higher, back it off?  And then toward the end, can push into that 165-170 range for the end? 

I was thinking about it from yesterday, I mean, I was chatting with that guy for almost 2 miles and held a conversation pretty well without being out of breath so the HR data makes sense.  But, as @bushdocda just said above, I may have crashed and burned if I did more to start.

If I recall, your max heart rate is pretty similar to mine. I honestly think you can be in the 175 range for your half, depending on how you feel and how the rest of your training goes.

For reference, click here for the race report I wrote about for my half in the spring. Might be a good resource to give you an idea of how to pace it based off of heart rate.

Just keep in mind - we are all different in terms of what we eat, stress, regular life stuff - so don't take my advice for anything other than just some possible info. One thing I will say though, if it's possible, start thinking now about nutrition in the days leading up to your long runs. For me, honing in on a regular nutrition plan even during training has helped me tremendously in terms of knowing what to expect each week. And then when race week comes, you'll already know what to eat and when. 

 

[Juxtatarot]

I don’t have much experience in getting my HR up as high as a lot of folks do/can and I have even less in trying to hold it there. Looking back on some races of varying distances, i am in the 160s the bulk of the time racing and end up into the 170s at the end.

I hope that more training and good conditions can combine to be able to push both the top end higher and extend the duration I can hold a given race pace. I guess that’s the name of the game really.  

Maybe you're like me and just not genetically built to have a high maximum heart rate.  I notice you only averaged 152 during the later part of your tempo last week and most of your runs have have been with a lower heart rate than many of the guys here.  I suspect the effort level it takes to run at a high heart rate is more for us than for others.

 

[tri-man 47]

I don’t have much experience in getting my HR up as high as a lot of folks do/can and I have even less in trying to hold it there. Looking back on some races of varying distances, i am in the 160s the bulk of the time racing and end up into the 170s at the end.

I hope that more training and good conditions can combine to be able to push both the top end higher and extend the duration I can hold a given race pace. I guess that’s the name of the game really.  

I don't know if you can increase the top end, but with training, the HR doesn't rise as fast and it does sustain longer.  Mentally, too, it becomes a matter of embracing the pain as the muscles break down.

 

[gianmarco]

Just found this and thought it was an interesting read:
 

One of the hardest races to ‘pace’ is a half marathon. We know a 5k is pretty much a ‘best effort’ type of race and a marathon is usually run at a long run pace - what about in the middle?

Member question

I have been training all winter for my first half-marathon which is coming up soon. During my triathlon season last summer and cross-country running last fall, I did well by monitoring my heart-rate (HR) during the races to set up good, sustainable pacing. I'd like to do the same in this race, but don't really know what zone I should be shooting for. I'm guessing low zone 3, no more for the first 8-10 miles, and then bump it up to mid or even upper 3 if it seems right . My zone 3 by BT Lactate Threshhold test is 131-137 bpm...I'm pretty old.  What do you think? 

Answer by Mike Ricci
Head Coach D3 Multisport.com

One of the hardest races to ‘pace’ is a half marathon. We know a 5k is pretty much a ‘best effort’ type of race, and that a 10k is only slightly slower – usually 10 seconds a mile or so. A marathon is usually run at long run pace, as it has to be sustained for 3+ hours. But a half marathon can be pretty tough to decipher. We’ll give it our best shot here.

You have the right idea with your pacing plan and I’ll even take it one step further to help you. I’ve used the following formula many times with great success I might add, and it’s about as easy as it gets. I call it the 5/5/5 plan. 5 miles at Zone 2 HR, 5 miles at Zone 3 HR and then 5k at your absolute best effort. If you can run the first 10 miles at the appropriate paces, then you’ll run about 20 seconds off your 5k personal best in the last 5k of the race.

If your lactate threshold is 134 (the middle ground between 131 and 137), then your Zone 2 heart rate for the race would be 109-118; for Zone 3 your heart rate would be 119-134 and then finally as you’re pushing hard for the last 5k, really crank it up and you should be in the 134-140 range.

Part of racing well is also having a good taper for the race and also a good nutrition plan. You may get advice that you don’t need any calories or fluids during a half marathon, but I’ll disagree with that. Knowing that you can handle 200 calories (or whatever you can personally handle) an hour (4 cups of Gatorade or 2 gels) will help keep your energy levels up. As you start to push more, especially later in the race, you don’t want to be on fumes, so make sure as the easier miles (1-5) are ticking by, you are keeping up with calories. Trying to take in calories as your heart rate is nearing threshold, may not be the easiest thing to do.

Lastly, if you have time, you can certainly test this plan out in training. You could run something like 10 miles and break it down to 4 / 4/ 2 or even if you ran 7 miles, it could be 3/ 3/ 1. The key is sticking to your zones early (and it will feel like you are holding back quite a bit), and then being able to execute the faster running towards the end. Good luck to you and have a great race!

 

[Juxtatarot]

I think that guy is using an age based heart rate calculation for bike training (BT right?) for lactate threshold.  That's the first thing the coach should have addressed.  I'll bet his true lactate threshold for running is higher than 134.  And anyone racing the first 5 miles of a half marathon at a heart rate between 109-118 seems ridiculously low.  

The first two sentences of the coach's last paragraph is my favorite.  The best idea is to get this guy practice at these paces and seeing what seems reasonable the old fashioned way -- by practice and "feel".

 

[bushdocda]

I don't know if you can increase the top end, but with training, the HR doesn't rise as fast and it does sustain longer.  Mentally, too, it becomes a matter of embracing the pain as the muscles break down.

Yeah this makes sense. I think it’s more me not knowing my max. I will get after it on the track sometime this winter and see what I can find out. 

 

[JAA]

Hey guys,

Just recovering from trip/race yesterday and then work so didn't look too closely afterward but now looking a bit more, it got me thinking about how things went and something that doesn't make sense to me.

My HR yesterday was pretty low overall.  Average HR of 158 for the entire race.  And the first 2 miles (which were 2 of my fastest) it was only ~150 (even in the upper 140's).  Now, I know the weather changed which helps, but that's still better than some of my recent slower runs.  And that overall HR is lower than most of my slower longer runs as well by a decent amount not to mention my tempo workouts. 

I'm pretty sure the HR was right because when I felt the worst right around mile 4, it was up to 170, so it otherwise seemed right.  And even stranger, I was able to get it back down toward the end of the race and even back in the 150's for a few moments. 

1)  Does that seem right or is it likely something was off?

2)  If that's right, is it a fitness thing or a weather thing or a combo of both?

3)  If that's right, does that mean I should have been pushing harder to start?  How do you use your HR during a race?  Without using it before or understanding how to use it during a race, it would seem that I had potential to push that HR higher and still be ok, although maybe that's not the case. 

4)  So I "felt" tired at the end of the race, but honestly, I think it was more my legs than my fitness and I know I didn't fuel well enough the previous couple days.  Could that explain why I couldn't go faster despite a HR that I'm used to running at without fatiguing? 

I was really surprised to see it so low at the end of the race and just trying to understand what happened and what to do with that info next time.

Lastly, I know part of this race was to help me figure out how to race in 1 month.  Using this calculator (which has served me well so far), things are lining up pretty consistently.  I put my Strava time in there, and based on my run yesterday, here are some equivalents:

1 mile -- 6:39 (mine is 6:38)
5K  -- 22:58 (mine is 23:00 chip time and 22:54 on Strava)

So those shorter distances lineup almost perfectly with my 10K yesterday.  Taking it to the HM, it says 1:45:37 (8:03 pace).  I'm thinking at this point that I should just make that my goal.  I might make sub 1:45:00 my A goal (8:00 pace), 8:05 pace or better as my B goal, and just finishing the damn thing as my C goal (which still has me a bit nervous).  Does that seem reasonable at this point?

.02

Weather.  Yes, you could have run faster.

For goals, I just like to target a HR zone for sufferring.  If you are below the zone, work harder.  IMHO this is one of the benefits of intervals.  When you push yourself hard in intervals you know how it feels.  Those feelings, and that HR baseline helps guide you on race day.

 

[Sand]

If anyone is an Audible listener, today's deal of the day is "Finding Ultra". $4

 

[Juxtatarot]

Here's a topic that I don't recall us ever discussing:  marijuana and running. 

The other day I saw mention of this with distance running and that sent me down an internet rabbit hole reading articles.  Perhaps not surprisingly, it seems to be quite common in the ultra running community.  And it may have some advantages for longer running such as helping with inflammation (good for recovery?) and also with nausea.   Plus, it could make that occasional dreaded long run a lot more fun.

Any thoughts on this?

I would have tried this out in my younger days but I'm older and frankly don't really hang around people that may have supplies.  If/when if becomes legal in Illinois, though, I'm sure I'd experiment.

 

[gruecd]

Here's a topic that I don't recall us ever discussing:  marijuana and running. 

The other day I saw mention of this with distance running and that sent me down an internet rabbit hole reading articles.  Perhaps not surprisingly, it seems to be quite common in the ultra running community.  And it may have some advantages for longer running such as helping with inflammation (good for recovery?) and also with nausea.   Plus, it could make that occasional dreaded long run a lot more fun.

Any thoughts on this?

I would have tried this out in my younger days but I'm older and frankly don't really hang around people that may have supplies.  If/when if becomes legal in Illinois, though, I'm sure I'd experiment.

@tri-man 47, didn't you try that stuff at Woodstock?

 

[ChiefD]

@tri-man 47, didn't you try that stuff at Woodstock?

 

[ChiefD]

Here's a topic that I don't recall us ever discussing:  marijuana and running. 

The other day I saw mention of this with distance running and that sent me down an internet rabbit hole reading articles.  Perhaps not surprisingly, it seems to be quite common in the ultra running community.  And it may have some advantages for longer running such as helping with inflammation (good for recovery?) and also with nausea.   Plus, it could make that occasional dreaded long run a lot more fun.

Any thoughts on this?

I would have tried this out in my younger days but I'm older and frankly don't really hang around people that may have supplies.  If/when if becomes legal in Illinois, though, I'm sure I'd experiment.

So, did your research indicate to smoke before, during, or after? Or all three? 

 

[Juxtatarot]

So, did your research indicate to smoke before, during, or after? Or all three? 

Edibles.  Before.  Or maybe during an ultra marathon with a product that includes easily digestible carbs and maybe some electrolytes.  

 

[Ned]

Here's a topic that I don't recall us ever discussing:  marijuana and running. 

The other day I saw mention of this with distance running and that sent me down an internet rabbit hole reading articles.  Perhaps not surprisingly, it seems to be quite common in the ultra running community.  And it may have some advantages for longer running such as helping with inflammation (good for recovery?) and also with nausea.   Plus, it could make that occasional dreaded long run a lot more fun.

Any thoughts on this?

I would have tried this out in my younger days but I'm older and frankly don't really hang around people that may have supplies.  If/when if becomes legal in Illinois, though, I'm sure I'd experiment.

In HS XC our team captain ran every race high.  He was a 16x runner.   

 

[Ned]

Hey guys,

Just recovering from trip/race yesterday and then work so didn't look too closely afterward but now looking a bit more, it got me thinking about how things went and something that doesn't make sense to me.

My HR yesterday was pretty low overall.  Average HR of 158 for the entire race.  And the first 2 miles (which were 2 of my fastest) it was only ~150 (even in the upper 140's).  Now, I know the weather changed which helps, but that's still better than some of my recent slower runs.  And that overall HR is lower than most of my slower longer runs as well by a decent amount not to mention my tempo workouts. 

I'm pretty sure the HR was right because when I felt the worst right around mile 4, it was up to 170, so it otherwise seemed right.  And even stranger, I was able to get it back down toward the end of the race and even back in the 150's for a few moments. 

1)  Does that seem right or is it likely something was off?

2)  If that's right, is it a fitness thing or a weather thing or a combo of both?

3)  If that's right, does that mean I should have been pushing harder to start?  How do you use your HR during a race?  Without using it before or understanding how to use it during a race, it would seem that I had potential to push that HR higher and still be ok, although maybe that's not the case. 

4)  So I "felt" tired at the end of the race, but honestly, I think it was more my legs than my fitness and I know I didn't fuel well enough the previous couple days.  Could that explain why I couldn't go faster despite a HR that I'm used to running at without fatiguing? 

I was really surprised to see it so low at the end of the race and just trying to understand what happened and what to do with that info next time.

Lastly, I know part of this race was to help me figure out how to race in 1 month.  Using this calculator (which has served me well so far), things are lining up pretty consistently.  I put my Strava time in there, and based on my run yesterday, here are some equivalents:

1 mile -- 6:39 (mine is 6:38)
5K  -- 22:58 (mine is 23:00 chip time and 22:54 on Strava)

So those shorter distances lineup almost perfectly with my 10K yesterday.  Taking it to the HM, it says 1:45:37 (8:03 pace).  I'm thinking at this point that I should just make that my goal.  I might make sub 1:45:00 my A goal (8:00 pace), 8:05 pace or better as my B goal, and just finishing the damn thing as my C goal (which still has me a bit nervous).  Does that seem reasonable at this point?

For starters?  Use a real watch.   

Being able to hold threshold for longer stretches is more of a fitness thing.  A more seasoned runner is going to be able to hold at or near threshold for longer than a newer runner.  Keep doing what you're doing and you'll see your avg HR go down over the easy runs and your threshold runs will get longer and harder (that's what she said).  I wouldn't get super hung up on what your HR is doing during the shorter races - just peg the pain and keep going.

Do you an idea of your mHR?

 

[bushdocda]

Edibles.  Before.  Or maybe during an ultra marathon with a product that includes easily digestible carbs and maybe some electrolytes.  

Edibles is interesting, I tried the oil a few months ago and it sure as hell didn’t make me want to run.  

 

[SFBayDuck]

Here's a topic that I don't recall us ever discussing:  marijuana and running. 

The other day I saw mention of this with distance running and that sent me down an internet rabbit hole reading articles.  Perhaps not surprisingly, it seems to be quite common in the ultra running community.  And it may have some advantages for longer running such as helping with inflammation (good for recovery?) and also with nausea.   Plus, it could make that occasional dreaded long run a lot more fun.

Any thoughts on this?

I would have tried this out in my younger days but I'm older and frankly don't really hang around people that may have supplies.  If/when if becomes legal in Illinois, though, I'm sure I'd experiment.

This is a pretty big topic in ultrarunning.  No doubt it's been a part of the sport since the start, and several of the best ultrarunners ever were known to regularly partake during training and racing.  It is on the WADA list, but there is a threshold that must be exceeded (which has been raised once or twice recently) during racing to trigger a positive.  So it's effectively not banned during training, just racing.  It seems strange to me that it would be considered performance enhancing by WADA for just about every sport...except ultrarunning.  Two of the biggest issues in long ultras are pain management and nausea, which are of course two things that marijuana is very good at alleviating.

It became a hot topic last year when Avery Collins won a spot in Western States by placing top 2 at the Georgia Death Race.  Avery is sponsored by a couple of edible companies (he lives in Colorado), and has been very open about his use of marijuana during training.  Some were upset that he took a spot away from somebody else while performing in what they saw as a grey area, but ultimately he isn't breaking the rules as he stops using about a month out from competition, and he has passed a couple of tests.  In general there is very little testing in american trail ultrarunning because 1)  there is no real governing body and 2) it's expensive.  But Western States does test the top 10 male and female finishers, and a couple of other races are testing now as well.

I'm not a marijuana guy, but I am really interested in trying CBD for the anti-inflammatory and recovery properties, and it's not on the WADA list anymore.  It's legal pretty much everywhere and can be ordered online, and with recreational use legal here in California there are dispensaries nearby with knowledgeable people that will give recommendations on products based on what you want them for.  

 

[Osaurus]

Gym was a little busier at lunchtime today.  A special thanks goes out to free weight slamming guy.  I wouldn’t have stayed awake without you.  Good times.

 

[Juxtatarot]

This is a pretty big topic in ultrarunning.  No doubt it's been a part of the sport since the start, and several of the best ultrarunners ever were known to regularly partake during training and racing.  It is on the WADA list, but there is a threshold that must be exceeded (which has been raised once or twice recently) during racing to trigger a positive.  So it's effectively not banned during training, just racing.  It seems strange to me that it would be considered performance enhancing by WADA for just about every sport...except ultrarunning.  Two of the biggest issues in long ultras are pain management and nausea, which are of course two things that marijuana is very good at alleviating.

It became a hot topic last year when Avery Collins won a spot in Western States by placing top 2 at the Georgia Death Race.  Avery is sponsored by a couple of edible companies (he lives in Colorado), and has been very open about his use of marijuana during training.  Some were upset that he took a spot away from somebody else while performing in what they saw as a grey area, but ultimately he isn't breaking the rules as he stops using about a month out from competition, and he has passed a couple of tests.  In general there is very little testing in american trail ultrarunning because 1)  there is no real governing body and 2) it's expensive.  But Western States does test the top 10 male and female finishers, and a couple of other races are testing now as well.

I'm not a marijuana guy, but I am really interested in trying CBD for the anti-inflammatory and recovery properties, and it's not on the WADA list anymore.  It's legal pretty much everywhere and can be ordered online, and with recreational use legal here in California there are dispensaries nearby with knowledgeable people that will give recommendations on products based on what you want them for.  

I’m sure you’ve considered it for nausea. Do you think the negatives outweigh the potential positives?

 

[SFBayDuck]

I’m sure you’ve considered it for nausea. Do you think the negatives outweigh the potential positives?

Yup, nausea has been my major issue.  For me, I'd have to figure out how to use without the negative affects.  Let's just say that if I reacted on the trails the way I did the last couple of times I used the stuff (circa 1999), nausea would be the least of my worries - the sweeper would find me sitting against a tree, rocking back and forth and mumbling to myself.

And even though I'm not going to get tested and am not competitive in terms of the race, I would still want to follow the spirit of the rules.  It looks like CBD may be effective on it's own:

Cannabinoids to manage nausea

The non-intoxicating cannabinoid CBD interacts with serotonin releasing receptors, and when given in relatively small doses has been shown to help alleviate both nausea and vomiting. CBD can also be effective in easing anxiety, which can help patients manage the angst of chronic nausea.1

THC also works well for many as an anti-nausea cannabinoid. When THC binds to the CB1 receptors in specific parts of the brain, it acts to reduce vomiting.2 The potentially uplifting side effects of THC can also be therapeutic in this case if not too intense. Creating a more positive state of mind is helpful for anyone going through chemotherapy, or for anyone experiencing difficult-to-treat, chronic nausea.

CBDA, the acidic, raw form of CBD, is even more active at the serotonin receptors, and preclinical (animal) studies indicate that CBDA is a potent anti-emetic, stronger than either CBD or THC. 2, 3  CBDA is the form of CBD that exists in the growing CBD-rich plant, before the plant has been dried or heated. With heating, CBDAbecomes CBD, just like THCA decarboxylates to become THC.  Currently, the best source of CBDA would be juice from fresh, high-CBD plants, but in the future dispensaries may be able to offer CBDA products for patients with need. 

https://www.projectcbd.org/managing-nausea-cannabis

Obviously not enough time to explore before my race in 3+ weeks, but something I should probably explore more going into next year.

 

[tri-man 47]

nausea would be the least of my worries - the sweeper would find me sitting against a tree, rocking back and forth and mumbling to myself @tri-man 47, <giggle> "wanna massage somethin' else?" </giggle>

Fixed.  

 

[JAA]

#### yea #####es, let’s all get high as ####!!!

 

[Juxtatarot]

Yup, nausea has been my major issue.  For me, I'd have to figure out how to use without the negative affects.  Let's just say that if I reacted on the trails the way I did the last couple of times I used the stuff (circa 1999), nausea would be the least of my worries - the sweeper would find me sitting against a tree, rocking back and forth and mumbling to myself.

All that makes sense.  If you change your mind down the road, I'll bet the fine folks at the dispensary could recommend a strain that would make this unlikely to happen. 

 

[bushdocda]

Hit 1000 miles for the year yesterday and have been around 50 miles per week for the past few which is a lot for me. Still building to end October and feeling good. 

I started putting my legs up on the wall most nights for like 5-15minutes after seeing it in a couple recovery articles when I was smoked a few weeks ago. I am convinced it’s helping and that’s my story and I’m sticking to it. 

 

[SteelCurtain]

Just completed my registration form for 2019 Boston.  I have exactly a 10 minute BQ, so I'm safe to get in.

There is this weird feeling between when you submit until you get the confirmation you have definitely been accepted.  Now I just have to wait for several days until I hear from them.

 

[MAC_32]

Just completed my registration form for 2019 Boston.  I have exactly a 10 minute BQ, so I'm safe to get in.

There is this weird feeling between when you submit until you get the confirmation you have definitely been accepted.  Now I just have to wait for several days until I hear from them.

How soon after registration close do you get an email?  My anxiety is going to be sky high next week no matter what, but knowing about when to expect the notification will help.

 

[gianmarco]

So pumped for you Boston guys.

And good luck this weekend @pbm107 and @SteelCurtain in your HMs. Can't wait to see what you guys put up.

 

[SteelCurtain]

How soon after registration close do you get an email?  My anxiety is going to be sky high next week no matter what, but knowing about when to expect the notification will help.

When you register, you get a confirmation they received your registration almost immediately.

Then in terms of actual confirmation, I think a lot depends on the race you qualified with.  For example, I think if you qualified with Chicago, it happens quickly as they have an auto-verification process.  If you did it with a very small race, then it takes a bit longer.

In addition, I think if you are right near the cutoff, it may take even longer.

All that being said, I think most people hear within 2-3 days, but in some obscure cases, it could be 1-2 weeks.

Help remind me how much of  BQ do you have and what race you did it?

 

[SteelCurtain]

So pumped for you Boston guys.

And good luck this weekend @pbm107 and @SteelCurtain in your HMs. Can't wait to see what you guys put up.

Thanks.  Feeling less and less confident on this one.  But I'm going to give it my best shot to PR.  Looking like a humid morning so that doesn't bode well.  But at least this race, I'm not flying the red eye back to run it!  ha ha

 

[MAC_32]

It wasn't Chicago - it was Toledo.  Only about 1,000 marathon runners.  I only BQ'd by 1:56, so I know I'm on the outside looking in.  I'm banking on some brutal body blows from mother nature decreasing the amount of qualifiers and entrants this year.  Good to know ahead of time just since my registration window closes next Wed I may not know for a while thereafter so I'm not sitting there just staring at my email all day like a schmuck.

 

[tri-man 47]

It wasn't Chicago - it was Toledo.  Only about 1,000 marathon runners.  I only BQ'd by 1:56, so I know I'm on the outside looking in.  I'm banking on some brutal body blows from mother nature decreasing the amount of qualifiers and entrants this year.  Good to know ahead of time just since my registration window closes next Wed I may not know for a while thereafter so I'm not sitting there just staring at my email all day like a schmuck.

Hope it works out!  BQ-1:56 is definitely on the bubble.  Fingers crossed!

 

[JAA]

As someone who has lived in MA for 10 years and worked in Boston for most of it, can anyone unpack for me the draw of the Boston Marathon like im a 42yo wannabe triathlete?  I dont get the draw.

 

[SteelCurtain]

It wasn't Chicago - it was Toledo.  Only about 1,000 marathon runners.  I only BQ'd by 1:56, so I know I'm on the outside looking in.  I'm banking on some brutal body blows from mother nature decreasing the amount of qualifiers and entrants this year.  Good to know ahead of time just since my registration window closes next Wed I may not know for a while thereafter so I'm not sitting there just staring at my email all day like a schmuck.

Hmmmm.  Yeah, so you'll have to probably wait until your section closes so they can review all the entries. 

1:56 might be a stretch, but the weather in Boston KILLED times this year so that will help you.  I wouldn't be surprised if the cutoff got a bit easier this year.  There are websites that predict it but they haven't been too accurate over the years.

I would plan on waiting several days before you hear.  They do it via email.  Good luck.  I'll be rooting for you to get in!

 

[SteelCurtain]

As someone who has lived in MA for 10 years and worked in Boston for most of it, can anyone unpack for me the draw of the Boston Marathon like im a 42yo wannabe triathlete?  I dont get the draw.

One of the oldest marathons.  Historic experience.  The entire city embraces the race in the days prior (its the leading story on the news in the days prior to the race.  Its not like that anywhere else I've run.)  Serious runners are there.  Its a challenge to get in.  Patriots Day is a state holiday so no school/work and the crowd support is fabulous.  Cool nuances of the race (heartbreak hill, Wellesley women, etc.)  Finally, the finish on Boylston is pretty bad a$$