Randy Johnson retires (1 Viewer)

[Spartans346]

I say yes.

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=4799462

 

[shut it down]

Absolutely yes. It'd be ridiculous if he didn't get in on the first ballot.

 

[720tail]

First ballot... 300 wins is a lock...

 

[shut it down]

In 2001 he had a 2.50 ERA despite a .328 BABIP.

 

[Eephus]

The only question is which hat will he wear?

 

[avoiding injuries]

The only question is which hat will he wear?

Has to be Arizona b/c of the World Series.

 

[the moops]

The only question is which hat will he wear?

In his first 6 years in Arizona, he won 4 consecutive Cy Youngs in his first 4 years there, and finished 2nd in his last. He won a World Series there. He was 103-49 (128-62 when you count his stint in 07/08). He was the NL pitching version of Barry Bonds.Definitely goes in as a Diamondback.

 

[oso diablo]

is the thread subtitle ?

 

[Spartans Rule]

The only question is which hat will he wear?

Gotta be the D-Backs.He won his four straight Cy Youngs there and got his only ring. Pitched eight seasons in Arizona, compared with 10 for Seattle (and two of those were partial), so longevity with the Mariners isn't as significant as I would've thought.

 

[shuke]

Does he get into the hall of fame?

 

[Chairshot]

He's in, obviously. The only real question is if he breaks Tom Seaver's all time voting percentage record. I say he has a good shot. I'd love to hear anyone's argument that Randy Johnson isn't a HOFer. The only voters who won't vote for him are the d-bags that never vote for anyone on the first ballot. And even they have to question that strategy with RJ.

 

[John Bender]

Guy was incredible.

Should be first ballot without question.

 

[Koya]

is the thread subtitle ?

Yes. No one is that stupid. Not even FBGs.

 

[Tau837]

is the thread subtitle ?

It can't be a serious question. He's as much of a lock as there can be.

 

[Regular Crust Pizza]

Of course.

 

[Smack Tripper]

He should be unanimous, along with Maddux

 

[TommyGilmore]

I hope he comes out of retirement next season for a playoff run. He's still got a little juice left in the tank.

 

[Tau837]

He should be unanimous, along with Maddux

 

[Eephus]

He should be unanimous, along with Maddux

some sportswriter will be a #### and submit a blank ballot because Johnson had 1497 career BB or they didn't like his hair

 

[Clifton]

I'd say there's a chance he misses some votes. Many realize he probably wouldn't have been the pitcher he ended up being had he not been so naturally large. I'm pretty sure some voters will realize this. He probably gets in but he's definitely not a first ballot lock.

 

[Tau837]

I'd say there's a chance he misses some votes. Many realize he probably wouldn't have been the pitcher he ended up being had he not been so naturally large. I'm pretty sure some voters will realize this. He probably gets in but he's definitely not a first ballot lock.

I think this is a pretty ridiculous viewpoint.

 

[Eephus]

The funny thing is that Johnson was a complete fantasy baseball non-factor for his early career. I was playing in NL only leagues back then. When he got traded to the AL, there was a huge bidding war for Mark Langston but Johnson leaving had no impact. I doubt he was even on an active roster.

When he got to Seattle, he became a better version of Daniel Cabrera. He ate innings and rang up Ks but his control made him a WHIP killer. After his age 28 season, his lifetime record stood at 49-48, with an ERA+ of 101 and a 1.33 WHIP. But he turned it around in 1993 and reduced his BB to under 100 (well 99) to go along w/ 308 Ks.

You could have gotten shorter odds in 1992 that Johnson would kill a bird with a pitch than that he would end up as a 300 game winner and a lead pipe cinch for the HoF.

 

[Mr. Brownstone]

Does he make the HOF?? Come on now.

 

[Encyclopedia Brown]

Jeff Pearlman (ex-SI writer) is not a fan.

http://jeffpearlman.com/?p=4398

In the coming days, people throughout baseball will pay homage to Randy Johnson, who is announcing his retirement today. They’ll talk about his power, his ferocity, his toughness. They’ll recall his pitch to John Kruk in the All-Star Game, and how he helped put Seattle baseball on the map. All around the baseball media world, men and women will leap from their seats to praise the Big Unit.

But not me.

I have nothing but negative thoughts for Randy Johnson, a brilliant pitcher but a pathetic human being. I covered baseball for a good chunk of time. I had direct access to such unpleasant men as Will Clark, John Rocker, Barry Bonds, Arthur Rhodes. But nobody—and I mean absolutely nobody—possessed the pure dismissive cruelty of Randy Johnson.

I’ve heard it a million times—no one cares how athletes treat the media. Well, I care. And Johnson was a punk. He bullied reporters, he snarled at reporters, he occasionally threatened reporters. He is one of the far-too-many professional athletes who believes the ability to throw a round piece of animal skin 100 mph grants you the right to treat other human beings as dog excrement. Just ask anyone who covered Johnson during his days in Montreal, Seattle, Houston, Arizona, New York and, lastly, San Francisco. He was a first-class pitcher and a first-class creep.

Should that prevent people from voting Johnson into the Hall of Fame? Of course not. His record of greatness is undeniable—303 wins, 4,875 strikeouts, a World Series title. But when you think of Randy Johnson, I urge you not to remember the 6-foot-10 pitching giant, but the little man who inhabited his body

.

 

[Koya]

I'd say there's a chance he misses some votes. Many realize he probably wouldn't have been the pitcher he ended up being had he not been so naturally large. I'm pretty sure some voters will realize this. He probably gets in but he's definitely not a first ballot lock.

I think this is a pretty ridiculous viewpoint.

Completely. I dont see an arguement for him not being a top 3 lefty of all time. If not for Grove, he'd have a real viability as the best lefty ever.

 

[Mr. Retukes]

Jeff Pearlman (ex-SI writer) is not a fan.

http://jeffpearlman.com/?p=4398

In the coming days, people throughout baseball will pay homage to Randy Johnson, who is announcing his retirement today. They’ll talk about his power, his ferocity, his toughness. They’ll recall his pitch to John Kruk in the All-Star Game, and how he helped put Seattle baseball on the map. All around the baseball media world, men and women will leap from their seats to praise the Big Unit.

But not me.

I have nothing but negative thoughts for Randy Johnson, a brilliant pitcher but a pathetic human being. I covered baseball for a good chunk of time. I had direct access to such unpleasant men as Will Clark, John Rocker, Barry Bonds, Arthur Rhodes. But nobody—and I mean absolutely nobody—possessed the pure dismissive cruelty of Randy Johnson.

I’ve heard it a million times—no one cares how athletes treat the media. Well, I care. And Johnson was a punk. He bullied reporters, he snarled at reporters, he occasionally threatened reporters. He is one of the far-too-many professional athletes who believes the ability to throw a round piece of animal skin 100 mph grants you the right to treat other human beings as dog excrement. Just ask anyone who covered Johnson during his days in Montreal, Seattle, Houston, Arizona, New York and, lastly, San Francisco. He was a first-class pitcher and a first-class creep.

Should that prevent people from voting Johnson into the Hall of Fame? Of course not. His record of greatness is undeniable—303 wins, 4,875 strikeouts, a World Series title. But when you think of Randy Johnson, I urge you not to remember the 6-foot-10 pitching giant, but the little man who inhabited his body

.

Surprised Pearlman didn't mention Johnson's illegitimate daughter, who Johnson also (reportedly) treats like crap.

 

[Wrigley]

Dumbest question ever

Top 20 pitcher of all time

 

[Zoomanji]

He should be unanimous, along with Maddux

some sportswriter will be a #### and submit a blank ballot because Johnson had 1497 career BB or they didn't like his hair

Its the Hall of Fame, not Hall of Mullets

 

[shut it down]

I'd say there's a chance he misses some votes. Many realize he probably wouldn't have been the pitcher he ended up being had he not been so naturally large. I'm pretty sure some voters will realize this. He probably gets in but he's definitely not a first ballot lock.

I think this is a pretty ridiculous viewpoint.

Completely. I dont see an arguement for him not being a top 3 lefty of all time. If not for Grove, he'd have a real viability as the best lefty ever.

 

[Eephus]

He should be unanimous, along with Maddux

some sportswriter will be a #### and submit a blank ballot because Johnson had 1497 career BB or they didn't like his hair

Its the Hall of Fame, not Hall of Mullets

If he was as big a jerk as stated earlier in the thread, some voter will omit him out of spite. And there are always even bigger jerks like Jay Mariotti who won't vote for anybody.

 

[shuke]

I'd say there's a chance he misses some votes. Many realize he probably wouldn't have been the pitcher he ended up being had he not been so naturally large. I'm pretty sure some voters will realize this. He probably gets in but he's definitely not a first ballot lock.

 

[Zoomanji]

He should be unanimous, along with Maddux

some sportswriter will be a #### and submit a blank ballot because Johnson had 1497 career BB or they didn't like his hair

Its the Hall of Fame, not Hall of Mullets

If he was as big a jerk as stated earlier in the thread, some voter will omit him out of spite. And there are always even bigger jerks like Jay Mariotti who won't vote for anybody.

for sureI'd love to hear the logic from the guy who doesn't vote for Maddux. I thought it was Mike, not Greg? He doesn't throw hard enough?

 

[Eephus]

sfor sureI'd love to hear the logic from the guy who doesn't vote for Maddux. I thought it was Mike, not Greg? He doesn't throw hard enough?

Maddux wasn't very good when he pitched for the Cubs, Padres, etc. He was a product of the Atlanta system. Even Denny Neagle was successful when he pitched there.

 

[Wrigley]

s

for sure

I'd love to hear the logic from the guy who doesn't vote for Maddux. I thought it was Mike, not Greg? He doesn't throw hard enough?

Maddux wasn't very good when he pitched for the Cubs, Padres, etc. He was a product of the Atlanta system. Even Denny Neagle was successful when he pitched there.

I assume this is sarcasm.

 

[Koya]

I'd say there's a chance he misses some votes. Many realize he probably wouldn't have been the pitcher he ended up being had he not been so naturally large. I'm pretty sure some voters will realize this. He probably gets in but he's definitely not a first ballot lock.

I think this is a pretty ridiculous viewpoint.

Completely. I dont see an arguement for him not being a top 3 lefty of all time. If not for Grove, he'd have a real viability as the best lefty ever.

Ok, I forgot Sandy (the best ever, period... though you can argue career wise he was not with his short but uber bright height of career). Other than that, the only others in the conversation would be Carlton (not as good as Grove) and Ford (not close to as good as Grove, did have a great win % though) unless I am overlooking someone.So, you have at the height of their career, Sandy Koufax, Lefty Grove and then you can go Big Unit or Carlton and some might talk Ford though I dont see it.For a career its Koufax or Grove at the top spot.Either way, the Unit would be hard pressed to be worse than #4 and I see no way he is below #5 unless Im forgetting someone (which is possible).

 

[Eephus]

s

for sure

I'd love to hear the logic from the guy who doesn't vote for Maddux. I thought it was Mike, not Greg? He doesn't throw hard enough?

Maddux wasn't very good when he pitched for the Cubs, Padres, etc. He was a product of the Atlanta system. Even Denny Neagle was successful when he pitched there.

I assume this is sarcasm.

Maddux was 95-75 w/ ERA+ of 115 and 1.25 WHIP while with the Cubs. Good but not HoF caliber. Only his final 1992 season in Chicago (his 1st CY Award) hints at what was to come. Ironically, his 1993 move to Atlanta happened the same year that Randy Johnson turned his career around.

 

[Eephus]

I'd say there's a chance he misses some votes. Many realize he probably wouldn't have been the pitcher he ended up being had he not been so naturally large. I'm pretty sure some voters will realize this. He probably gets in but he's definitely not a first ballot lock.

I think this is a pretty ridiculous viewpoint.

Completely. I dont see an arguement for him not being a top 3 lefty of all time. If not for Grove, he'd have a real viability as the best lefty ever.

Ok, I forgot Sandy (the best ever, period... though you can argue career wise he was not with his short but uber bright height of career). Other than that, the only others in the conversation would be Carlton (not as good as Grove) and Ford (not close to as good as Grove, did have a great win % though) unless I am overlooking someone.So, you have at the height of their career, Sandy Koufax, Lefty Grove and then you can go Big Unit or Carlton and some might talk Ford though I dont see it.For a career its Koufax or Grove at the top spot.Either way, the Unit would be hard pressed to be worse than #4 and I see no way he is below #5 unless Im forgetting someone (which is possible).

Spahn has to be in the conversation as well

 

[Wrigley]

s

for sure

I'd love to hear the logic from the guy who doesn't vote for Maddux. I thought it was Mike, not Greg? He doesn't throw hard enough?

Maddux wasn't very good when he pitched for the Cubs, Padres, etc. He was a product of the Atlanta system. Even Denny Neagle was successful when he pitched there.

I assume this is sarcasm.

Maddux was 95-75 w/ ERA+ of 115 and 1.25 WHIP while with the Cubs. Good but not HoF caliber. Only his final 1992 season in Chicago (his 1st CY Award) hints at what was to come. Ironically, his 1993 move to Atlanta happened the same year that Randy Johnson turned his career around.

Worst move the Cubs ever made(and that includes Brock)

 

[Captain Hook]

Thanks Eephus - I was frothing that someone could be talking about BEST LHP and not mention Warren Spahn.

There have been some sportswriters who have tackled the question but for career I have not seen any of them conclude the candidates were not Grove, Spahn, or Randy Johnson.

Koufax is certainly in the mix when you talk about greatest season(s) but generally the shortness of his career takes him out of consideration for best all time.

 

[boubucarow]

s

for sure

I'd love to hear the logic from the guy who doesn't vote for Maddux. I thought it was Mike, not Greg? He doesn't throw hard enough?

Maddux wasn't very good when he pitched for the Cubs, Padres, etc. He was a product of the Atlanta system. Even Denny Neagle was successful when he pitched there.

I assume this is sarcasm.

Maddux was 95-75 w/ ERA+ of 115 and 1.25 WHIP while with the Cubs. Good but not HoF caliber. Only his final 1992 season in Chicago (his 1st CY Award) hints at what was to come. Ironically, his 1993 move to Atlanta happened the same year that Randy Johnson turned his career around.

Worst move the Cubs ever made(and that includes Brock)

Maddux had 2 all star appearance, 3 gold gloves, a Cy Young Award, and a 3rd place finish for the Cy Young with the Cubs in 8 seasons before leaving. He had two sub 3 era seasons and 5 straight seasons under 3.50. He won 87 games in the 5 seasons before leaving and his era was 2.18 with 20 wins at the age of 26 in his last Cubs season. There is no reason to think he would not have become a Hall of Fame pitcher. And from what I know of the Maddux free agent leaving, it was the Cubs basically showing him the door without much conversation. I am pretty sure that I read that Maddux would have stayed a Cub for less money. Too bad the Cubs organization was massively cheap during that time period. That is why despite the failings of the last few years either in the regular season or fall apart in the playoffs, I can't be too mad since they finally are actually trying to win.

 

[Leroy Hoard]

Nope, too ugly.

 

[Koya]

Thanks Eephus - I was frothing that someone could be talking about BEST LHP and not mention Warren Spahn.There have been some sportswriters who have tackled the question but for career I have not seen any of them conclude the candidates were not Grove, Spahn, or Randy Johnson. Koufax is certainly in the mix when you talk about greatest season(s) but generally the shortness of his career takes him out of consideration for best all time.

For some reason I have a mental blindspot for Spahn. Even so, I have less of a grip on his career than any of the others listed. When looking at his BR page, I don't see a compelling reason to put him above either Koufax or Grove, and not over Johnson either. I could be convinced otherwise as I admittedly am not fully in the know on this one.

 

[proninja]

It's going to be sad for Mariner fans to see him go into the hall as a Diamondback. Guy was awesome to watch pitch, and him pointing to the sky at the end of the one game playoff for the division in 1995 was my 2nd favorite baseball moment - only after Edgar's double later in the year.

I was really hoping the M's would sign him this year.