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Ray Rice, McFadden, Moreno - 4th round rb (1 Viewer)

Soaring Eagle

Footballguy
i have a feeling that these rb's will be sitting around in the 4th rounds of many of my drafts - just had one tonight (td heavy with some yardage bonuses - no ppr) and i went with ray rice - just have a gut feeling about him that he will see 60-70% of the carries on that team - i had some "guilt" as all the experts liked McFadden more and he was the "value" pick there as Rice was a reach but my gut told me he was the pick there. like moreno a lot but the injury concerned me

curious to see the thoughts of others

 
i have a feeling that these rb's will be sitting around in the 4th rounds of many of my drafts - just had one tonight (td heavy with some yardage bonuses - no ppr) and i went with ray rice - just have a gut feeling about him that he will see 60-70% of the carries on that team - i had some "guilt" as all the experts liked McFadden more and he was the "value" pick there as Rice was a reach but my gut told me he was the pick there. like moreno a lot but the injury concerned mecurious to see the thoughts of others
Until I see the raiders use McFadden more consistently and call him the starter, Rice seems safer. But all in all, they are about equal. take the one that falls to round 5.
 
Don't like any of them in the 4th, but if I had to pick one, it'd be Rice. At least one of these guys might make the 6th.

 
How many people in your draft? In one I was in this weekend with 12 people (start 2 RB plus one flex), Rice and McFadden went in the 3rd, Moreno at the end of the 4th.

 
Don't like any of them in the 4th, but if I had to pick one, it'd be Rice. At least one of these guys might make the 6th.
Agree. Sit and wait on them till at least 6th.I personally like Rice the most of the 3, then Moreno, then McFadden. I think Bush will really cut into McFadden this year especially at the goal line if the raiders ever make it there. In my 10 teamer last night they went like thisMcFadden 6.05Rice 8.05 (me)Moreno 9.05Same guy took McFadden and Moreno. They all are good value at those picks I think and wouldn't take any of them in the 4th!
 
I like Moreno here.

I've never been a McFadden fan and nothing he's done with the silver and black has changed my opinion of him. He's a one-dimensional runner who's only useful when he has a wide open lane to explode through. He'll break the occasional big play, but I think he'll be a disappointment for anyone expecting consistent production.

Ray Rice seems like a pretty safe pick to contribute, but I don't see a huge upside here. He's not the most explosive back around. More importantly, McClain and McGahee figure to eat into his production. With no big plays and (possibly) limited goal line opportunities, it's hard for me to see him emerging as anything more than a RB2 this season.

That leaves Moreno. I'm worried about the knee injury and the sad state of Denver's offense, but there's no doubt in my mind that he's the most talented RB on the roster. I expect him to win the starting job once he's healthy and I think he has the potential to be the kind of every down back who can give you consistent top 10 ppg numbers when he plays.

 
was a 12 team league 1 qb/2 rb/ 3 wr

rice went in the 4th in another league i did over a week ago

i don't think many will last to the 6th

i think 4th to 5th round (and depending were you pick in 4 they might not make it back to you in 5)

 
I like McFadden.

He'll be the center of that offense this year. The Raiders were #10 in rush attempts last year despite their terrible year. I think that Russell has improved and the O line is very good.

Above all I think he has the best skill set and is the most talented of the 3 listed.

BTW - With all the hype around Rice there is no way that he'll last until the 6th.

 
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Amazing how missing a couple of preseason games changes perceptions. 2 months ago, Moreno was a 3rd rounder, and Beanie Wells was going extremely high as well. In my 12 team, start 2 RBs, 3 WRs, non-ppr, I went Megatron and AJohnson from the 12 slot early and was able to end up with a Kevin Smith (4.01), Moreno (6.01), Beanie (8.01), and Felix Jones (7.12) backfield.

Moreno was out running and cutting before the game tonight. I think he starts week 1 and therefore represents monster value where he's currently going.

 
Just had my big league draft this evening (12 team redraft)

McFadden went 6.5

Wells went at 6.6

Rice went 6.10

I was more than happy to get Moreno at 7.1 and just as happy to get Hightower at 8.12

Lots of question marks about the RB's this year. Makes for some interesting draft scenarios....

 
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Our draft just wrapped. 12-team High Performance - PPR scoring

Ray Rice 6.01

Knowshon Moreno 6.04

Darren McFadden 7.06 :confused:

 
Had ours (12 owners, 14 rounds, non PPR)

McFadden: 3rd round 4th pick

Moreno: 4th round, 1st pick

Rice: 6th Round 2nd pick

I was really hoping Rice would fall to me at 6:10.

We had massive runs on RB with 11 going in the first round. McFadden was drafted by a rookie but the good ones were gone. He was 16th off the board so the owner didn't miss by much if he missed.

 
Just wrapped up a competitive 12-team draft, .5 ppr for RBs, 1 ppr for WRs/TEs:

McFadden went at 5.11

Rice went at 6.02

Moreno went at 6.06

I ended up with Moreno, but really wanted Rice with that pick.

I gambled at RB2 and went RB-WR-QB-WR-WR in the first 5 rounds.

Since I don't feel great about Moreno for Week 1, I came right back and drafted:

Felix Jones at 7.07

Donald Brown at 8.06

I feel fortunate to have gotten those two guys, but still don't feel confident at RB2. Hopefully at least one will emerge.

 
just finished:

RICE: 9.8 (me :thumbdown: )

MCFADDEN (5.4)

MORENO (4.7)

I think they're all pretty good values at those picks (especially rice in the 9th...did i mention :lmao: ). But of the 3 i actually like Rice the most. I was big on McFadden until i got to see the Raiders play a couple pre season games. Their O has aboslutely zero consistency and i just dont trust him holding up to an NFL season either. As for Moreno, i try to stay away from all Belichick (and disciples) RBs.

 
Targeting Moreno and Beanie Wells in the mid rounds.

Curious where people are seeing Wells getting drafted following his 2 TD game this week against Green Bay. Getting paranoid that he's going to start sneaking up into the early parts of the 5th round in 12-team drafts.

Or is Wells still going later b/c people are worried about his injury and/or Hightower?

 
Targeting Moreno and Beanie Wells in the mid rounds.Curious where people are seeing Wells getting drafted following his 2 TD game this week against Green Bay. Getting paranoid that he's going to start sneaking up into the early parts of the 5th round in 12-team drafts.Or is Wells still going later b/c people are worried about his injury and/or Hightower?
12 team yesterday he went 5.04. If that guy hadn't taken him he wouldn't have lasted through the round.
 
I don't get the Ray Rice love in round 4. I really like Ray Rice, but he plays on the wrong team to be drafted that early. If you can grab him two round later, then sure why not go for it.

If I had to draft one of those RB's in the 4th, it would be Moreno because in theory he won't be splitting time with another talented RB. You cannot say the same for Rice and McFadden. But ideally, you could pick up the RB's in rounds 5/6.

 
Today McFadden went in the 4th, Rice in the 5th, Moreno in the 6th. Leon Washington, Tim Hightower, and Beanie Wells all went in the 7th and 8th.

 
I draft Tuesday night. if you didnt see Wells TD's and his first run from scrimmage it was impressive. espicially his longer TD run. Seeing hightower all season last year you can not compare the talent of these 2. My opinion, do not let Wells go past you in the 6th. Hell, I may not wait past the 4th depending upon how the auction is going. If those runs I saw are with an ankle injury, there is something special there. 6-1, 235 and he is fast with good vision.

I am not comparing the 2 , but the knock on AD was "injury prone" as he fell to the Vikes. Same knock on Wells as he fell to the end of the 1st to AZ. AZ will not do a 60/40 split between Wells and hightower once Beannie shows what he can do. i believe Wizenhunt wants to run the ball more, he just didn't have the horse in the race to do it. he does now.

 
Amazing how missing a couple of preseason games changes perceptions. 2 months ago, Moreno was a 3rd rounder, and Beanie Wells was going extremely high as well. In my 12 team, start 2 RBs, 3 WRs, non-ppr, I went Megatron and AJohnson from the 12 slot early and was able to end up with a Kevin Smith (4.01), Moreno (6.01), Beanie (8.01), and Felix Jones (7.12) backfield. Moreno was out running and cutting before the game tonight. I think he starts week 1 and therefore represents monster value where he's currently going.
My league 12 team, no PPR, 6 points on all TD's, i went in almost the same direction. Picking from the 6th slot though I got A. Johnson, Colston, and Jennings with my first three. Next three went K.Smith, R. Rice, and Beanie in that order. Looking at Ravens game over the weekend, Rice touched the ball 18 times for 99 yards. He is going to used in this offense regardless of Mcgahee and Mcclain and once the season starts and the Ravens D is dominating teams I believe Rice could be the steal of the draft, especially getting him int he 5th round! Then again he is on my team so I may sound a little biased but traditionally Defense minded team who will Run, to open up the pass, and only lead to more touches for Rice!
 
I don't get the Ray Rice love in round 4. I really like Ray Rice, but he plays on the wrong team to be drafted that early. If you can grab him two round later, then sure why not go for it. If I had to draft one of those RB's in the 4th, it would be Moreno because in theory he won't be splitting time with another talented RB. You cannot say the same for Rice and McFadden. But ideally, you could pick up the RB's in rounds 5/6.
He went in the 4th in my 12-team ppr, I believe the 18th rb taken. At that point you can either go for the safe veteran that might finish in the 20-25 range (like larry johnson?), or the home run young guy with a lot of untapped potential (in ray rice) that could finish top 10.
 
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10 team redraft last night. Bunch of guys I don't know, but I was assured are "sharks" lol.

ME = McFadden 5.08

ME= Moreno 6.03

ME= Beanie 9.08 (OMFG!!!!)

ME= Donald Brown 12.03 (Woot.)

sharks indeed.

Didn't mention I got Sjax at 1.08 and Chris Johnson at 2.03

(can start 3 RB's, no PPR)

 
I don't get the Ray Rice love in round 4. I really like Ray Rice, but he plays on the wrong team to be drafted that early. If you can grab him two round later, then sure why not go for it.
Agreed, I've taken McFadden in 3 drafts and Rice in none (Rice going a round or two later - only fell far once and I didn't notice).
 
I don't get the Ray Rice love in round 4. I really like Ray Rice, but he plays on the wrong team to be drafted that early. If you can grab him two round later, then sure why not go for it.

If I had to draft one of those RB's in the 4th, it would be Moreno because in theory he won't be splitting time with another talented RB. You cannot say the same for Rice and McFadden. But ideally, you could pick up the RB's in rounds 5/6.
Because of McG and McC? He's definitely on the right team as far as run/pass goes, good defense, etc. I really want Rice this year to the point I'm highly debating 4.03 on him (assuming a higher projected RB doesn't fall) because I don't think I get him at 5.10.

 
Local redraft league.....these guys just have no clue I had the #1 spot

DMC 4.03

Moreno 8.12 Me

Rice 10.12 Me

 
I don't get the Ray Rice love in round 4. I really like Ray Rice, but he plays on the wrong team to be drafted that early. If you can grab him two round later, then sure why not go for it.

If I had to draft one of those RB's in the 4th, it would be Moreno because in theory he won't be splitting time with another talented RB. You cannot say the same for Rice and McFadden. But ideally, you could pick up the RB's in rounds 5/6.
Because of McG and McC? He's definitely on the right team as far as run/pass goes, good defense, etc. I really want Rice this year to the point I'm highly debating 4.03 on him (assuming a higher projected RB doesn't fall) because I don't think I get him at 5.10.
Yes because Baltimore has a three-headed monster at RB. And out of the three, Ray Rice was the only RB that did not score a rushing or receiving TD last year. Also it's presumed he will be the "starter" but we don't really know exactly how that will play out. But we do know he scored zero TD's last year even though he had 140 touches. I'm sure he will score some TD's this year, but my concern is that it will not be enough to justify a 4th round pick.
 
I took Rice at 3.08 in a 12 teamer, cause the 4 teams after me(9-12) all needed RBs and I already had R Moss. I liked him more than Bush, LJ, T Jones, and McFadden, all that was really left. Its a RB heavy league, Grant, Portis, Ward, Addai, K Smith were all taken earlier in Rd 3.

Other than K Smith and Grant, Rice was the best IMO, and he is on a team that could lead him to be the best of the post-1st rd RBs.

 
I don't get the Ray Rice love in round 4. I really like Ray Rice, but he plays on the wrong team to be drafted that early. If you can grab him two round later, then sure why not go for it.

If I had to draft one of those RB's in the 4th, it would be Moreno because in theory he won't be splitting time with another talented RB. You cannot say the same for Rice and McFadden. But ideally, you could pick up the RB's in rounds 5/6.
Because of McG and McC? He's definitely on the right team as far as run/pass goes, good defense, etc. I really want Rice this year to the point I'm highly debating 4.03 on him (assuming a higher projected RB doesn't fall) because I don't think I get him at 5.10.
Yes because Baltimore has a three-headed monster at RB. And out of the three, Ray Rice was the only RB that did not score a rushing or receiving TD last year. Also it's presumed he will be the "starter" but we don't really know exactly how that will play out. But we do know he scored zero TD's last year even though he had 140 touches. I'm sure he will score some TD's this year, but my concern is that it will not be enough to justify a 4th round pick.
McGahee stinks, I took him as insurance. McClain will get some touches inside the 5 yard line, he's a poor mans LenDale White. Other than that, its Rice time. Since I am in a PPR and get 1pt/10 yards, I really dont need him to score a ton of TDs to be solid. We only get 5 pts/rushing TD, but 7/recv TD(for RBs).
 
In the middle of a slow (multiday) draft, 12 team PPR (WR/TE only) start 1 qb, 2 rb, 4 wr, 1 superflex

Moreno went at pick 3.07, very early in my view.

Just at the start of the 4th now with both Rice and DMC still on the board. I'd take one in the 5th but probably not before.

 
I don't get the Ray Rice love in round 4. I really like Ray Rice, but he plays on the wrong team to be drafted that early. If you can grab him two round later, then sure why not go for it. If I had to draft one of those RB's in the 4th, it would be Moreno because in theory he won't be splitting time with another talented RB. You cannot say the same for Rice and McFadden. But ideally, you could pick up the RB's in rounds 5/6.
He went in the 4th in my 12-team ppr, I believe the 18th rb taken. At that point you can either go for the safe veteran that might finish in the 20-25 range (like larry johnson?), or the home run young guy with a lot of untapped potential (in ray rice) that could finish top 10.
There is a chance LJ can finish top 10 even on a horrible Chiefs team. I think he finishes closer to 10 than the 20-25 range. But I have a difficult time projecting Ray Rice as having a shot at the top 10 with the three-headed monster RBBC in Baltimore and the fact that Ray Rice scored zero TD's last year on 140 touches. If McGahee ends up being the goal line back, that really caps Rice's value depending on your scoring system.
 
Don't like any of them in the 4th, but if I had to pick one, it'd be Rice. At least one of these guys might make the 6th.
Agree. Sit and wait on them till at least 6th.I personally like Rice the most of the 3, then Moreno, then McFadden. I think Bush will really cut into McFadden this year especially at the goal line if the raiders ever make it there. In my 10 teamer last night they went like thisMcFadden 6.05Rice 8.05 (me)Moreno 9.05Same guy took McFadden and Moreno. They all are good value at those picks I think and wouldn't take any of them in the 4th!
Are there a bunch of guppies in this draft 8th for Rice? How many QB's/Def off the board at this point?
 
In our 12 team PPR re-draft it went:

Rice - 5.05

McFadden - 6.02 (me)

Moreno - 6.04

I had McFadden ranked higher than Rice by a bit and Moreno by even more but could not argue it shaking out any other way either. They are close.

 
i just trade Wells and (jenkins) for Mcfadden and (crayton)

and in another trade

i gave up Donald Brown and (Dominik HIxon) for Ray rice and (brianrobiskie)

i really didnt care about receivers in both trades so i think i got good value and very lucky

 
In our 12 team PPR re-draft it went:Rice - 5.05McFadden - 6.02 (me)Moreno - 6.04I had McFadden ranked higher than Rice by a bit and Moreno by even more but could not argue it shaking out any other way either. They are close.
What site are you playing at?
 
I don't like saying sharks or guppies, because I am definitely not a shark and often think guppies make better picks than others suggest.

That being said, my local redraft league is mostly full of guys (and a gal) who really don't know go nuts with fantasy information.

McFadden 3.10 (her)

Rice 6.03 (her)

LJ 6.08 (me)

Moreno 7.05 (me)

Wells 10.03 (her)

Me and another owner (happens to be a woman, the first year she's played and had a GREAT team, obviously did her homework) were all over these guys.

Again, I realize this doesn't help anyone out with their drafts but in a local league where a lot of guys just play for the fun and don't take it as seriously (like I do, lol) this is what happened.

IMO, it made the draft harder to predict. If I had known all of these guys would fall, I would have drafted Moss (she got him!) rather than Sjax in the first, then gone wr-wr again with Jennings and Colston (who I got). Then again, Sjax when healthy is proven, those others are not and only some will pan out.

Just throwing some stuff out there - I think in a less than informed league it may be worth it to take wrs early as these rbs may slide.

 
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Tonight in my main 12-team non-PPR league:

Rice 4.02

McFadden 4.12

Moreno 6.09

Rice is going to be taken in the 4th in most competitive 12-team leagues IMO. You just know someone will be drooling over him and know he can't risk waiting until the 5th on him, so he'll pull the trigger in the 4th.

IMO McFadden is a terrible buy at his ADP, given the state of the Raiders and the uncertain distribution of their RB touches. But late 4th or 5th is what I'm seeing.

Moreno is flying under the radar a bit it seems due to the injury and the Broncos' own messy situation, and I would expect him to last the longest of the three.

 
Frankly I think Rice will be a top 10 back in PPR leagues this year. This years D.Williams or M.Turner both of whom were taking in late rounds last year. I want him in all my pools but the question is where to take him and get good value. I don't want to risk losing him but I don't want to take him too early.

By the way both Williams and Turner were thought to be in committees heading into last year

The reasons why I like Rice so much?

I keep hearing that the Ravens have a 3 RB Committee. That was true last year but won't be this year. The fundamental reason why is because McClain is now the Fulltime Fullback with Neal gone. He won't get nearly as many touches this year for that reason alone. Mclain has only 3 carries in the preseason in contrast to Rice's 23 and McGahee's 18.

Last year between McClain,Rice and McGahee the 3 backs had a combined 509 carries. Yes 509! The Ravens probably will pass a bit more this year but they are still a smashmouth football team.

Let's say they run 480 times this year. I don't see McClain getting more than 60 because of his FB Duties. McGahee will be used quite a bit. I say he matches his 170 from last year.

That leaves 250 carries for Rice. Say he matches his 4.2 YPC of last year and that gives him 1050 rushing yards. I actually think he could see as many as 300 carries but I think 250 is a safe number to forecast.

Thats Ok but add the fact he will get by far the most receptions of the backs. He had 273 receiving yards last year in limited action and has been featured extensively as a receiver in the preseason. When the Ravens say they are going to pass the ball more they are factoring in a lot of screens.

I think 60 receptions and 500 yards receiving are definitely within reach for Rice this year.

Right now it is hard to say who will get the most Goalline carries but there aren't a lot of backs out there who are in line for over 1500 combined yards this year.

 
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Frankly I think Rice will be a top 10 back in PPR leagues this year. This years D.Williams or M.Turner both of whom were taking in late rounds last year. I want him in all my pools but the question is where to take him and get good value. I don't want to risk losing him but I don't want to take him too early.By the way both Williams and Turner were thought to be in committees heading into last yearThe reasons why I like Rice so much?I keep hearing that the Ravens have a 3 RB Committee. That was true last year but won't be this year. The fundamental reason why is because McClain is now the Fulltime Fullback with Neal gone. He won't get nearly as many touches this year for that reason alone. Mclain has only 3 carries in the preseason in contrast to Rice's 23 and McGahee's 18.Last year between McClain,Rice and McGahee the 3 backs had a combined 509 carries. Yes 509! The Ravens probably will pass a bit more this year but they are still a smashmouth football team.Let's say they run 480 times this year. I don't see McClain getting more than 60 because of his FB Duties. McGahee will be used quite a bit. I say he matches his 170 from last year.That leaves 250 carries for Rice. Say he matches his 4.2 YPC of last year and that gives him 1050 rushing yards. I actually think he could see as many as 300 carries but I think 250 is a safe number to forecast. Thats Ok but add the fact he will get by far the most receptions of the backs. He had 273 receiving yards last year in limited action and has been featured extensively as a receiver in the preseason. When the Ravens say they are going to pass the ball more they are factoring in a lot of screens.I think 60 receptions and 500 yards receiving are definitely within reach for Rice this year. Right now it is hard to say who will get the most Goalline carries but there aren't a lot of backs out there who are in line for over 1500 combined yards this year.
That sounds eerily like Chris Johnson '08 - 251 carries, 43 receptions, ~1500 combined yards.My suspicion is that the Rice owners will be cursing McGahee for vulturing the TDs, much like White did. Just a hunch though.
 
Frankly I think Rice will be a top 10 back in PPR leagues this year. This years D.Williams or M.Turner both of whom were taking in late rounds last year. I want him in all my pools but the question is where to take him and get good value. I don't want to risk losing him but I don't want to take him too early.By the way both Williams and Turner were thought to be in committees heading into last yearThe reasons why I like Rice so much?I keep hearing that the Ravens have a 3 RB Committee. That was true last year but won't be this year. The fundamental reason why is because McClain is now the Fulltime Fullback with Neal gone. He won't get nearly as many touches this year for that reason alone. Mclain has only 3 carries in the preseason in contrast to Rice's 23 and McGahee's 18.Last year between McClain,Rice and McGahee the 3 backs had a combined 509 carries. Yes 509! The Ravens probably will pass a bit more this year but they are still a smashmouth football team.Let's say they run 480 times this year. I don't see McClain getting more than 60 because of his FB Duties. McGahee will be used quite a bit. I say he matches his 170 from last year.That leaves 250 carries for Rice. Say he matches his 4.2 YPC of last year and that gives him 1050 rushing yards. I actually think he could see as many as 300 carries but I think 250 is a safe number to forecast. Thats Ok but add the fact he will get by far the most receptions of the backs. He had 273 receiving yards last year in limited action and has been featured extensively as a receiver in the preseason. When the Ravens say they are going to pass the ball more they are factoring in a lot of screens.I think 60 receptions and 500 yards receiving are definitely within reach for Rice this year. Right now it is hard to say who will get the most Goalline carries but there aren't a lot of backs out there who are in line for over 1500 combined yards this year.
That sounds eerily like Chris Johnson '08 - 251 carries, 43 receptions, ~1500 combined yards.My suspicion is that the Rice owners will be cursing McGahee for vulturing the TDs, much like White did. Just a hunch though.
Aside from the statue of liberty play, McGahee got 4 out of the 5 other carries inside the 5 this preseason. The 5th one went to McClain. For Rice to get his TD's, he's going to have to do it fom distance. I'm not sold he's that type of athelete.
 
Ha, well this question is easy for me to answer since I acquired all 3 in my last draft.

I'd take McFadden first (pick #32), then Moreno (pick #54), then Rice (pick #67)

This is a PPR 10-team league where you keep any 3 players not taken in the first 3 rounds.

 
You'd think I play with a bunch of scrubs, but I really think my league just simply overlooked Rice. Just had my draft last night, 10 team, PPR, redraft:

6.8 Moreno

6.10 Wells

14.4 Rice (Me) :lmao:

The sad thing is that I missed him for the longest time too! I was just like, "He's been taken." I was digging for some late round flyers, and I saw him around pick 13.9 or so...I bit my fingernails all the way till my pick, because I KNEW somebody was going to take him. But they didn't. My win.

I also picked up M. Lynch at 5.7. Some guys had started taking QB's by then, which I held off on doing.

 
fwiw, I did a mock on CBS last night and it seemed Rice was way down on the RB list projections. I'm sure magazines are the same way. I think that bodes well for waiting...even if you're in a league with decently good competition, if their info is bad it's easy to see how he, or any of these guys, can fall.

 
Local league in its 5th year, guys fairly solid in the earlier rounds, not so much in the later rounds (i.e. smart guppies - which I may be as well). Draft was held August 24th.

-14 team league (first 2 rounds keepers with the option of picking in the 3rd round or keeping a 3rd player. Draft order was random)

-fractional scoring, 1 point per 20 yards receiving/rushing, 6 points per TD, -2 points per fumble, and .5 PPR

4.14 Darren McFadden (3-time league champion)

5.01 Knowshon Moreno (3-time league champion)

6.02 Beanie Wells (me)

6.05 Felix Jones

7.07 Donald Brown

7.13 Ray Rice (me)

13.02 Leon Washington (I was an idiot who passed up on him and took Shonn Greene & Davone Bess with my 11th and 12th round picks instead)

I really think a lot of people are overrating Ray Rice. I'll be happy if he performs like a #2 RB (and I'm not convinced he will do that well).

I like Moreno the most out of the McFadden, Moreno, and Rice group.

 
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