RB Dalvin Cook, DAL (2 Viewers)

[Mavis]

That is quite a jump. I don't think I am ready to just assume they have gone from a putrid to above average. The line is better, but we will see how much better. He was supposedly a poor pass blocker so I worry McKinnon might get some 3rd down work. He doesn't look like a GL back and so Murray makes a lot more sense in that role. Also, the Vikings offense under Sam Bradford isn't very exciting. Toss in his fumbling issues and I am a bit worried about just how many touches he gets and what value those touches have. 

It was mentioned that the line had issues that were beyond their own control, injuries bad RBs running behind them and playing from behind a lot. It seems people are worrying about the little things that you cant really consider because you are blind on it. You are worried about his touches? All RBs can have touch issues unless you are a stud, he isnt behind Bell or Gordon. Murray is already hurt and is not a typically healthy guy. I like Murrays game, but he is not Cook and they will play the better guy. McKinnon is just not good. 

 

[Ilov80s]

It was mentioned that the line had issues that were beyond their own control, injuries bad RBs running behind them and playing from behind a lot. It seems people are worrying about the little things that you cant really consider because you are blind on it. You are worried about his touches? All RBs can have touch issues unless you are a stud, he isnt behind Bell or Gordon. Murray is already hurt and is not a typically healthy guy. I like Murrays game, but he is not Cook and they will play the better guy. McKinnon is just not good. 

Exactly, it's a very unknown situation with lots of possible outcomes.

I think the point of Murray already having some medical issues this season is important and something to monitor, but I wouldn't call Murray injury prone either. Other than the ankle injury that cost him his rookie year, it's just been the typical minor things and it's only cost him 3 games over the last years. 

 

[Biabreakable]

That is quite a jump. I don't think I am ready to just assume they have gone from a putrid to above average. The line is better, but we will see how much better. He was supposedly a poor pass blocker so I worry McKinnon might get some 3rd down work. He doesn't look like a GL back and so Murray makes a lot more sense in that role. Also, the Vikings offense under Sam Bradford isn't very exciting. Toss in his fumbling issues and I am a bit worried about just how many touches he gets and what value those touches have. 

Riley Reif and Mike Remmers grade as better run blockers than pass blockers by PFF.

Mike Zimmer hates PFF grades but he made a similar comment about the new additions at tackle, that they are good run blockers and that is what he wanted, needed to improve about the offensive line.

The way I interpret this is that the Vikings offensive line should significantly improve their run blocking. It would be nearly impossible for them not to. The pass blocking may not take as big a step forward, but as long as TJ Clemmings (graded as the worst tackle by PFF last year and about as bad in 2015 as well) isn't starting there (knock on wood) is should be better. Maybe not a lot better, but better. I'm more optimistic about the run blocking improving a lot than I am the pass blocking.

Jerrick McKinnon is not good in pass protection either. When the Vikings need a RB to be able to help the line and pick up the blitz it will be Murray who gets that assignment not Jet.

I like McKinnon, I just don't think he does anything better than Cook, so I don't really expect him to play much. Maybe some wildcat, not much more.

Murray is the guy to worry about stealing snaps and possible short yardage TD opportunities. Murray is not that good of a runner though. Cook is going to get plenty of opportunities. 

Sam Bradford is a better QB than people give him credit for. He played very well under the circumstances last year and I expect him to improve on that with a full offseason with the team.

I think Cook ends up getting around 280 opportunities (rushing attempts and targets) with some upside for more than that as a rookie.

220 rushing attempts and 60 targets as a receiver. This would be based on the Vikings throwing 550 times and 400 rushing attempts. Murray and McKinnon will have rushing attempts as well about 150 left to be split between them assuming the QB will run 20-30 times and some runs with Diggs and other WRs. If Cook has an average catch percentage for a RB (73%) he should get about 40 receptions with upside for more (Bradford his completion percentage and Cook likely above average as a receiver). This should lead to about 1200 combined yards. I agree with you the TD potential may be capped by Murray getting goal line work.

 

[Ilov80s]

Riley Reif and Mike Remmers grade as better run blockers than pass blockers by PFF.

Mike Zimmer hates PFF grades but he made a similar comment about the new additions at tackle, that they are good run blockers and that is what he wanted, needed to improve about the offensive line.

The way I interpret this is that the Vikings offensive line should significantly improve their run blocking. It would be nearly impossible for them not to. The pass blocking may not take as big a step forward, but as long as TJ Clemmings (graded as the worst tackle by PFF last year and about as bad in 2015 as well) isn't starting there (knock on wood) is should be better. Maybe not a lot better, but better. I'm more optimistic about the run blocking improving a lot than I am the pass blocking.

Jerrick McKinnon is not good in pass protection either. When the Vikings need a RB to be able to help the line and pick up the blitz it will be Murray who gets that assignment not Jet.

I like McKinnon, I just don't think he does anything better than Cook, so I don't really expect him to play much. Maybe some wildcat, not much more.

Murray is the guy to worry about stealing snaps and possible short yardage TD opportunities. Murray is not that good of a runner though. Cook is going to get plenty of opportunities. 

Sam Bradford is a better QB than people give him credit for. He played very well under the circumstances last year and I expect him to improve on that with a full offseason with the team.

I think Cook ends up getting around 280 opportunities (rushing attempts and targets) with some upside for more than that as a rookie.

220 rushing attempts and 60 targets as a receiver. This would be based on the Vikings throwing 550 times and 400 rushing attempts. Murray and McKinnon will have rushing attempts as well about 150 left to be split between them assuming the QB will run 20-30 times and some runs with Diggs and other WRs. If Cook has an average catch percentage for a RB (73%) he should get about 40 receptions with upside for more (Bradford his completion percentage and Cook likely above average as a receiver). This should lead to about 1200 combined yards. I agree with you the TD potential may be capped by Murray getting goal line work.

Agree with all of this. My original questioning was in relation to someone claiming Cool was a top 10 RB this year.

 

[Mavis]

Agree with all of this. My original questioning was in relation to someone claiming Cool was a top 10 RB this year.

I dont think he will do that, but he could, you never know. I have a feeling people think he is still sitting behind a prime Adrian Peterson the way people talk about whats in front of him. I also hear people mention the OLine as if it will be the same this year. Even though different players and different RBs, they will be worse or be just as bad? Thats is flawed logic. Its like thinking my new car will run like crap just because my old one did. This kid is talented, so anything is possible from RB1 to RB 50. Who knows. Dont ever forget Darren McFadden was a top 15 RB because of all the injuries and the situation he was in just two years ago. 

 

[spider321]

I agree with Mavis' insight.  Cook probably will end up somewhere between rb1 and rb50.

 

[steelers1080]

I agree with Mavis' insight.  Cook probably will end up somewhere between rb1 and rb50.

I think it's pretty safe to say that in actuality he'll end up somewhere from RB 2 to RB 49.

 

[spider321]

I think it's pretty safe to say that in actuality he'll end up somewhere from RB 2 to RB 49.

Whoa now!  I'll need to see him in a preseason game or two before I'm willing to make that leap.

 

[Interseptopus]

I dont think he will do that, but he could, you never know. I have a feeling people think he is still sitting behind a prime Adrian Peterson the way people talk about whats in front of him. I also hear people mention the OLine as if it will be the same this year. Even though different players and different RBs, they will be worse or be just as bad? Thats is flawed logic. Its like thinking my new car will run like crap just because my old one did. This kid is talented, so anything is possible from RB1 to RB 50. Who knows. Dont ever forget Darren McFadden was a top 15 RB because of all the injuries and the situation he was in just two years ago. 

From my understanding. the Vikings have 1 (one, uno, eins, un) OL different from last year to this year. They move Berger over to RG and have an un-drafted center with 5 career starts and 11 games played in 2 seasons starting at center. Yep... looks like it'll be loads better. 

You want to talk flawed logic... it's not like saying your brand new car will run like crap because your old one did. What it is like is saying hanging dice from your rear view mirror won't change your fuel efficiency. 

Putting a career backup into a starting position on a bad OL does not make an OL loads better. 

Rb 1 to 50... Are you being serious right now?   

 

[Andy Dufresne]

From my understanding. the Vikings have 1 (one, uno, eins, un) OL different from last year to this year. They move Berger over to RG and have an un-drafted center with 5 career starts and 11 games played in 2 seasons starting at center. Yep... looks like it'll be loads better. 

You want to talk flawed logic... it's not like saying your brand new car will run like crap because your old one did. What it is like is saying hanging dice from your rear view mirror won't change your fuel efficiency. 

Putting a career backup into a starting position on a bad OL does not make an OL loads better. 

Rb 1 to 50... Are you being serious right now?   

They'll likely have 3 (three, tres, drei) new linemen. They signed 2 (two, dos, zwei) free agents in Reiff and Remmers and drafted 1(one, uno, eins) Pat Elflein.

Have you been asleep this off-season?

 

[Tau837]

From my understanding. the Vikings have 1 (one, uno, eins, un) OL different from last year to this year. They move Berger over to RG and have an un-drafted center with 5 career starts and 11 games played in 2 seasons starting at center. Yep... looks like it'll be loads better. 

This is about as wrong as wrong gets. The info has even been posted in this thread... maybe you should read it.

 

[bicycle_seat_sniffer]

They'll likely have 3 (three, tres, drei) new linemen. They signed 2 (two, dos, zwei) free agents in Reiff and Remmers and drafted 1(one, uno, eins) Pat Elflein.

Have you been asleep this off-season?

Dr dan.....um,yeah,stick to being a Dr cuz ff isn't ur thing.......

 

[Ilov80s]

Love this. Dalvin Cook is going to be fun to monitor. There are a lot of chips in the middle on this guy. 

 

[steelers1080]

My only hangup with Cook is Zimmer. He's so stubborn when it comes to using rookies that I could easily see Cook getting less than 100 touches this year.  I don't think Zimmer is a good offensive coach (from the Rex Ryan mold), and I worry that even if Cook is the much more talented RB, they'll still use Murray and Mckinnon if they're healthy.

 

[Pwingles]

My only hangup with Cook is Zimmer. He's so stubborn when it comes to using rookies that I could easily see Cook getting less than 100 touches this year.  I don't think Zimmer is a good offensive coach (from the Rex Ryan mold), and I worry that even if Cook is the much more talented RB, they'll still use Murray and Mckinnon if they're healthy.

Id be more worried that when Cook does show something Coach simply wont see it

 

[Interseptopus]

They'll likely have 3 (three, tres, drei) new linemen. They signed 2 (two, dos, zwei) free agents in Reiff and Remmers and drafted 1(one, uno, eins) Pat Elflein.

Have you been asleep this off-season?

This is about as wrong as wrong gets. The info has even been posted in this thread... maybe you should read it.

Whoops! I was under the impression Reiff and Remmers were on the team last year, my mistake, was an incorrect depth chart. And I was unaware that Elfein was projected as a starter. Thanks guys 

 

[Interseptopus]

Dr dan.....um,yeah,stick to being a Dr cuz ff isn't ur thing.......

My history of success would say otherwise, but it is correct to say I need to be more diligent in verifying I am looking at the correct reference before I post. As I mentioned above, I made a mistake on the depth chart I was referecning. Yes, the Vikings have had a complete make over of their OL and it'll be interesting to see how well they perform. That was the biggest issue for them.

They have a good defense to control the score, Cook could likely be relied on heavily to help control the game clock. Bradford is Bradford, you know what you get. The biggest issue for them is OL and if that comes out heavily improved this could be a great recipe for success for the Vikings. A year ago they were looking at a potential playoff run, which is why they went out and over paid for Bradford. Last year was a flop but they are just one year removed from all that hype and they do look better than they did at this point last season.  

Plenty of reasons to like Cook (as well as not like). As I said, I was mistaken on my OL reference, and it does look improved from last season. 

 

[bicycle_seat_sniffer]

My only hangup with Cook is Zimmer. He's so stubborn when it comes to using rookies that I could easily see Cook getting less than 100 touches this year.  I don't think Zimmer is a good offensive coach (from the Rex Ryan mold), and I worry that even if Cook is the much more talented RB, they'll still use Murray and Mckinnon if they're healthy.

Is this based on treadwell or are there more examples??

 

[Ilov80s]

Is this based on treadwell or are there more examples??

He had no issue getting Diggs involved as an unheralded rookie

 

[Andy Dufresne]

To be fair, Zimmer HAS brought rookies along slowly. Both Rhodes and Waynes are good examples. Diggs didn't get much until later in his rookie year.

He definitely favors vets.

 

[Interseptopus]

My only hangup with Cook is Zimmer. He's so stubborn when it comes to using rookies that I could easily see Cook getting less than 100 touches this year.  I don't think Zimmer is a good offensive coach (from the Rex Ryan mold), and I worry that even if Cook is the much more talented RB, they'll still use Murray and Mckinnon if they're healthy.

This is quite the statement. He hasn't gotten rookie WRs involved because they haven't really drafted great rookie WRs ready to step in day 1 in general the last few years. Diggs was an exception.

If he limits Cook to less than 100 touches I imagine Zimmer will be looking for a job. Assuming Cook grasps the playbook and can block and catches on quick, there is zero reason to keep your best running back on the bench

 

[Interseptopus]

To be fair, Zimmer HAS brought rookies along slowly. Both Rhodes and Waynes are good examples. Diggs didn't get much until later in his rookie year.

He definitely favors vets.

Forgot about Rhodes. I always felt like they were screwing the pooch on him

 

[Ilov80s]

This is quite the statement. He hasn't gotten rookie WRs involved because they haven't really drafted great rookie WRs ready to step in day 1 in general the last few years. Diggs was an exception.

If he limits Cook to less than 100 touches I imagine Zimmer will be looking for a job. Assuming Cook grasps the playbook and can block and catches on quick, there is zero reason to keep your best running back on the bench

Only way Cooks gets <100 touches is injury, off field issue, early fumble issues or whatever disease Treadwell has. 

 

[Andy Dufresne]

I'd bet my house that Cook gets more than 100 touches barring injury.

 

[Interseptopus]

I'd bet my house that Cook gets more than 100 touches barring injury.

Cook is likely to get >250 touches (carries + receptions) IMO

 

[Mavis]

To be fair, Zimmer HAS brought rookies along slowly. Both Rhodes and Waynes are good examples. Diggs didn't get much until later in his rookie year.

He definitely favors vets.

He may not have the time to bring rooks along slow. They got a new stadium, they need a competitor and a face for the franchise yesterday with AP gone. Cook is the guy they drafted to try to fit that role, quick. By year 2, he is the every down back. If that brings success is a different story. 

 

[Tau837]

He may not have the time to bring rooks along slow. They got a new stadium, they need a competitor and a face for the franchise yesterday with AP gone. Cook is the guy they drafted to try to fit that role, quick. By year 2, he is the every down back. If that brings success is a different story. 

 

 

[Mavis]

 

Wait... did a guy who just liked a post about me not posting again, just give me this on a post? 

 

[Biabreakable]

My only hangup with Cook is Zimmer.

I think this is a legitimate concern. Andy points out some of the examples of Zimmers reluctance to play rookie players upthread. I share this concern and part of the reason my general projections about opportunites upthread are conservative as they are, also coupled with knowing that rookie RB often have to prove themselves and that takes time.

He's so stubborn when it comes to using rookies that I could easily see Cook getting less than 100 touches this year.

This I do not agree with. As I already mentioned, 260 touches is my conservative estimate for Cook in 2017. It could easily be more than this.

I don't think Zimmer is a good offensive coach (from the Rex Ryan mold), and I worry that even if Cook is the much more talented RB, they'll still use Murray and Mckinnon if they're healthy.

Zimmer has taken a very hands off approach when it comes to the offense thus far, entrusting many of those decisions to Norv Turner. This is the first year that Zimmer has decided to take a more active role with the offense. So I don't think your judgement comparing him to Rex Ryan is applicable.

In regards to this, Zimmers comments about thinking Cook could be a very special RB is a very good sign I think.

Murray will definitely have a role. His main job is to help in pass protection. He is an upgrade from Matt Asiata in this offense.

McKinnon is a player that Zimmer has been critical of in the past. Saying that he wants to see Jet gain more yards after contact. I don't think he will favor McKinnon over Cook who does everything McKinnon can do but much better (including gaining yards after contact).

 

[Aznflyer14]

I think this is a legitimate concern. Andy points out some of the examples of Zimmers reluctance to play rookie players upthread. I share this concern and part of the reason my general projections about opportunites upthread are conservative as they are, also coupled with knowing that rookie RB often have to prove themselves and that takes time.

This I do not agree with. As I already mentioned, 260 touches is my conservative estimate for Cook in 2017. It could easily be more than this.

Zimmer has taken a very hands off approach when it comes to the offense thus far, entrusting many of those decisions to Norv Turner. This is the first year that Zimmer has decided to take a more active role with the offense. So I don't think your judgement comparing him to Rex Ryan is applicable.

In regards to this, Zimmers comments about thinking Cook could be a very special RB is a very good sign I think.

Murray will definitely have a role. His main job is to help in pass protection. He is an upgrade from Matt Asiata in this offense.

McKinnon is a player that Zimmer has been critical of in the past. Saying that he wants to see Jet gain more yards after contact. I don't think he will favor McKinnon over Cook who does everything McKinnon can do but much better (including gaining yards after contact).

I also like to point out that most of coaches will find a way to get the talent players on the field regardless the situation.  McKinnon has had every chance to demonstrate his talents (and his ridiculous SPARQ skills) on the field and he failed to produce (regardless of Vikings' inept OL).   The same goes for Murray for failing to maximize his opportunity when playing for Raiders especially with their top-five ranked OL. 

And from what I have seen Cook's performance when playing for Florida State especially vs. good opponents especially on national spotlight, he excelled.  Many scouts have been repeatedly attributed his vision and breakaway as two of his exceptional football skills.

If this helps, I would suggest to read this link. 

https://www.profootballfocus.com/news/fantasy-football-metrics-that-matter-how-far-apart-are-cook-and-fournette-really

 

[Biabreakable]

I also like to point out that most of coaches will find a way to get the talent players on the field regardless the situation.  McKinnon has had every chance to demonstrate his talents (and his ridiculous SPARQ skills) on the field and he failed to produce (regardless of Vikings' inept OL).   The same goes for Murray for failing to maximize his opportunity when playing for Raiders especially with their top-five ranked OL. 

And from what I have seen Cook's performance when playing for Florida State especially vs. good opponents especially on national spotlight, he excelled.  Many scouts have been repeatedly attributed his vision and breakaway as two of his exceptional football skills.

If this helps, I would suggest to read this link. 

https://www.profootballfocus.com/news/fantasy-football-metrics-that-matter-how-far-apart-are-cook-and-fournette-really

This is a nice article that I have come across before. Thanks for sharing it.

In another discussion related to comparisons of Cook to Fournette, the point is made that running a higher speed at a greater weight causes that player to generate more momentum, thus making it more difficult to slow that player down when tackling them, which could lead to more yards after contact.

On a related note Jerrick McKinnon has reportedly added 10 lbs during this offseason, I presume with the goal of enabling him to improve in this area (yards after contact) that Mike Zimmer wants from him.

However as we can see from the charting data in the link above, Cook has consistently gained more yards after contact per attempt than Fournette has. So clearly there is more to gaining yards after contact than weight or a speed score than combines 40 time with height and weight.

What Cook does that I really like about him is that he never provides a very good target for tacklers to bring him down, and this leads to more yards after contact, sometimes a lot more yards after contact due to his speed to gain large chunks of yards after making a defender miss. I also think he is better at breaking tackles than people give him credit for. It is more subtle than how Fournette does this, but as we see from the charting data, actually more effective on a per touch basis.

 

[Ilov80s]

Cooks does feel like the guy that is going to catch a swing pass in the first preseason game, juke a LB out of their shorts and then end up with a 3rd round ADP.

 

[Ilov80s]

This is a nice article that I have come across before. Thanks for sharing it.

In another discussion related to comparisons of Cook to Fournette, the point is made that running a higher speed at a greater weight causes that player to generate more momentum, thus making it more difficult to slow that player down when tackling them, which could lead to more yards after contact.

On a related note Jerrick McKinnon has reportedly added 10 lbs during this offseason, I presume with the goal of enabling him to improve in this area (yards after contact) that Mike Zimmer wants from him.

However as we can see from the charting data in the link above, Cook has consistently gained more yards after contact per attempt than Fournette has. So clearly there is more to gaining yards after contact than weight or a speed score than combines 40 time with height and weight.

What Cook does that I really like about him is that he never provides a very good target for tacklers to bring him down, and this leads to more yards after contact, sometimes a lot more yards after contact due to his speed to gain large chunks of yards after making a defender miss. I also think he is better at breaking tackles than people give him credit for. It is more subtle than how Fournette does this, but as we see from the charting data, actually more effective on a per touch basis.

A ton goes into that, for example where was first contact made? The size/speed combo means nothing if first contact is coming at the LOS., that is where a quicker, more agile back is more likely to be able to escape contact. However, if we are talking first contact being made >3 yards past the line of scrimmage it can favor the size speed guy. It reminds me of a video game: The size speed guy has to have time to charge up his special power but when he does and he gets that 230 pounds moving up field at top speed, get the f out of the way.

 

[Biabreakable]

A ton goes into that, for example where was first contact made? The size/speed combo means nothing if first contact is coming at the LOS., that is where a quicker, more agile back is more likely to be able to escape contact. However, if we are talking first contact being made >3 yards past the line of scrimmage it can favor the size speed guy. It reminds me of a video game: The size speed guy has to have time to charge up his special power but when he does and he gets that 230 pounds moving up field at top speed, get the f out of the way.

Yeah I can see that. I can also see why the observer may be more impressed by Fournette making defenders bounce off of him or being driven back than they are with Cook bouncing off a tackle attempt and getting free of the contact.

In the end the results have favored Cook according to this charting however.

 

[ZWK]

By my numbers, on plays in traffic Fournette had more yards after contact per touch than Cook, and on plays in space Fournette had more yards after contact per touch than Cook, but on the whole Cook had more yards after contact per touch than Fournette because a larger fraction of Cook's touches came in space.

Getting more touches in space is often a matter of scheme, or the gap in talent between the defense and the rest of the offense, but it can also depend on other aspects of the RB's skills. For example, a RB with bad vision might misread the play and run into a pack of defenders at the line of scrimmage, on a play where a RB with better vision would've found the hole and not encountered any defenders until the second level where he had a linebacker one-on-one in space. I'm not sure about the cause in the case of Cook vs. Fournette.

 

[Ilov80s]

By my numbers, on plays in traffic Fournette had more yards after contact per touch than Cook, and on plays in space Fournette had more yards after contact per touch than Cook, but on the whole Cook had more yards after contact per touch than Fournette because a larger fraction of Cook's touches came in space.

I had to re-read it, I thought for a second you stumbled on an example of one of my favorite statistical/mathematical occurrences: Simpson's paradox.

 

[ZWK]

By my numbers, on plays in traffic Fournette had more yards after contact per touch than Cook, and on plays in space Fournette had more yards after contact per touch than Cook, but on the whole Cook had more yards after contact per touch than Fournette because a larger fraction of Cook's touches came in space.

I had to re-read it, I thought for a second you stumbled on an example of one of my favorite statistical/mathematical occurrences: Simpson's paradox.

It is Simpson's paradox.

In traffic Fournette > Cook
In space Fournette > Cook
Overall (traffic+space) Cook > Fournette

 

[Ilov80s]

It is Simpson's paradox.

In traffic Fournette > Cook
In space Fournette > Cook
Overall (traffic+space) Cook > Fournette

Ok I was right when I read it the first time, cool. Good find!

 

[ZWK]

Ok I was right when I read it the first time, cool. Good find!

Off-topic: I came across another example of Simpson's paradox a few months ago. Did you know that, despite his famous big leg, Sebastian Janikowski is below average at making long field goals? He has made 55% of his 50+ yard field goal attempts (55/100 for his career), while over the same time period (2000-2016) other kickers have made 57.7% of their 50+ yard field goal attempts (1038/1799).

But let's break that down into smaller yard ranges:

50-54 yards: Janikowski 62.7% (42/67) vs. everyone else 61.5% (919/1495)
55-59 yards: Janikowski 45.8% (11/24) vs. everyone else 44.5% (109/245)
60-64 yards: Janikowski 33.3% (2/6) vs. everyone else 21.3% (10/47)
65+ yards: Janikowski 0.0% (0/3) vs. everyone else 0.0% (0/12)
-----------------
all 50+ yards: Janikowski 55.0% (55/100) vs. everyone else 57.7% (1038/1799)

Janikowski tends to take longer FG attempts than other kickers, even if we only look at the 50+ range, so even though he has been better (or at least as good) from every distance, he still has a lower FG% on the whole from 50+ yards.

 

[Ilov80s]

Off-topic: I came across another example of Simpson's paradox a few months ago. Did you know that, despite his famous big leg, Sebastian Janikowski is below average at making long field goals? He has made 55% of his 50+ yard field goal attempts (55/100 for his career), while over the same time period (2000-2016) other kickers have made 57.7% of their 50+ yard field goal attempts (1038/1799).

But let's break that down into smaller yard ranges:

50-54 yards: Janikowski 62.7% (42/67) vs. everyone else 61.5% (919/1495)
55-59 yards: Janikowski 45.8% (11/24) vs. everyone else 44.5% (109/245)
60-64 yards: Janikowski 33.3% (2/6) vs. everyone else 21.3% (10/47)
65+ yards: Janikowski 0.0% (0/3) vs. everyone else 0.0% (0/12)
-----------------
all 50+ yards: Janikowski 55.0% (55/100) vs. everyone else 57.7% (1038/1799)

Janikowski tends to take longer FG attempts than other kickers, even if we only look at the 50+ range, so even though he has been better (or at least as good) from every distance, he still has a lower FG% on the whole from 50+ yards.

That's cool. I had an example with Kevin Durant and another player with their free throw %s. Durant shoots a higher % both years but if you look at the two years combined, the other player shoots a higher %. I have show it to some of my math/stats students before, they didn't really get it...which I guess is the appropriate reaction. 

 

[Interseptopus]

Not sure if I missed this in the discussion or not, but is anyone downgrading him or concerned about his off the field history? That, to me, seems like a risk that Fournette and CMC don't really offer. 

 

[Mavis]

Not sure if I missed this in the discussion or not, but is anyone downgrading him or concerned about his off the field history? That, to me, seems like a risk that Fournette and CMC don't really offer. 

Not anymore than those downgrading Mixon. Look, fantasy football is not real life. We get credit for their points. We may not have them available because of suspensions and what not, but he isnt in any risk of that and has as much of a clean slate as anyone else coming into the NFL. 

 

[Ilov80s]

Not sure if I missed this in the discussion or not, but is anyone downgrading him or concerned about his off the field history? That, to me, seems like a risk that Fournette and CMC don't really offer. 

Not anymore than those downgrading Mixon. Look, fantasy football is not real life. We get credit for their points. We may not have them available because of suspensions and what not, but he isnt in any risk of that and has as much of a clean slate as anyone else coming into the NFL. 

I agree with Mavis here. I don't like the talk of his off field issues, but he's never had any charges against him so he is clean as far as the NFL is concerned. I would prefer not to hear that a dynasty player has off field issues, but there is no point to worry about that now. First, lets see his talent and role before we worry about if someday he might do something stupid. 

 

[Arodin]

I agree with Mavis here. I don't like the talk of his off field issues, but he's never had any charges against him so he is clean as far as the NFL is concerned. I would prefer not to hear that a dynasty player has off field issues, but there is no point to worry about that now. First, lets see his talent and role before we worry about if someday he might do something stupid. 

You need to ask Ben Roethlisberger and Ezekiel Elliott about this one...

 

[Mavis]

You need to ask Ben Roethlisberger and Ezekiel Elliott about this one...

Those circumstances are different and obvious, circumstantial. Zeke may have done this after the draft and therefore it is a league violation and thats why there is an investigation, and as of now...he hasnt been susp for anything. Ben? That was an issue all in itself. 

 

[Ilov80s]

You need to ask Ben Roethlisberger and Ezekiel Elliott about this one...

Cook hasn't even been connected to a crime as far as I know. If he had, that would be different 

 

[Interseptopus]

Not anymore than those downgrading Mixon. Look, fantasy football is not real life. We get credit for their points. We may not have them available because of suspensions and what not, but he isnt in any risk of that and has as much of a clean slate as anyone else coming into the NFL. 

Mixon had one incident... Cook 5

Cook has a much longer list

As a side note... Mixon was found not guilty of any criminal wrong doing, but people still hold this against him. 

Cook's legal issues date back to his time at Miami Central High School: The Orlando Sentinel reported that Cook was arrested as a juvenile and charged with robbery in 2009, though prosecutors later dropped the case.

He also was arrested a year later and charged with firing a weapon and possession of a weapon at an event on school property. Those chargers were either dropped or abandoned, the newspaper reported.

Cook was charged with criminal mischief in June 2014 after he was one of several players involved in an alleged shooting with a BB gun that caused property damage. Cook was given pretrial intervention.

Sports Illustrated reported that Cook also was issued a citation in July 2014 for a violation of animal care after he allegedly left three pit bull puppies chained up by the neck outside.

In July 2015, a woman accused Cook of punching her while outside of a Tallahassee bar. He was charged with misdemeanor battery and suspended indefinitely from the football team. He was found not guilty -- the jury delivered the verdict in less than 25 minutes after a daylong trial -- and immediately reinstated to the team.

Seems like a pattern. Sure, he hasn't been convicted but he sure isn't winning citizen of the year awards. A guy who puts himself in a situation to be in trouble with the law isn't necessarily a model citizen. 

Everyone is quick to downgrade Mixon based off of 1 legal instance that if it weren't on camera we would just leave it as "one instance" just like we do with Zeke and his 2 alleged assaults on a woman. 

Where I'm from, 5 > 1 instances.

 

I agree with Mavis here. I don't like the talk of his off field issues, but he's never had any charges against him so he is clean as far as the NFL is concerned. I would prefer not to hear that a dynasty player has off field issues, but there is no point to worry about that now. First, lets see his talent and role before we worry about if someday he might do something stupid. 

He's had plenty of charges. No convictions. The guy who goes 85 on the freeway every day also has no convictions, but I know one day he's bound to speed through the wrong stretch of freeway... 

We've seen the NFL suspend players for charges being filed, even when they are found not guilty or before a decision is made. I don't really understand how anyone can think Cook is at zero to low risk for any kind of suspension based on his patterned history and the NFL's recent history of suspensions, and how that risk wouldn't drop his value to some degree

 

[Ilov80s]

I didn't realize Cool had been charged. I thought it was all rumors or bad crowd stuff.

 

[Tau837]

From A Closer Look at Dalvin Cook:

There looks to be a few reasons why he dropped. The biggest one seems to be a string of off-field incidents, most of which happened during his mid-teens, growing up in a poor community in Miami-Dade, where he fell in with a bad crowd. By the time he got to Florida State, he was trying to distance himself from them, which isn’t always easy, with the help of the FSU coaching staff. Robert Klemko at SI has a good background story on all this. Cook has not had any incidents since 2015.

Incidents mostly in his mid-teens growing up in a poor community in Miami. Not a concern for me. YMMV.

 

[Ilov80s]

From A Closer Look at Dalvin Cook:

Incidents mostly in his mid-teens growing up in a poor community in Miami. Not a concern for me. YMMV.

He was in college in 2015 when he was charged with battery. He was found not guilty but we know Goodell judges things himself and doesn't care what courts say.