RB Dalvin Cook, DAL (2 Viewers)

[Biabreakable]

So since I have been wondering about this for quite awhile. What happens with a RB who has good vision and change of direction ability well suited to the ZBS is put in a man blocking scheme?

I found this article discussing the topic with examples of the Washington Redskins switching from zone to man blocking, and then Frank Gore (who is a good ZBS RB) playing in a man blocking scheme with the 49ers.

the role of the running back also changes in this scheme. Instead of following a strict set of rules and making one single cut in the zone scheme, the back has a bit more freedom in the power scheme. His initial instruction is to follow his lead blockers, the fullback and the pulling guard. But once he gets to the hole, he’s given more freedom.

Running backs in the power system have to be a bit more instinctual. The zone scheme tells the back exactly where to go, whereas the power scheme asks the back to think on his feet and make quick decisions.

Pigeonholing Running Backs to the Wrong Schemes

Pigeonholing Running Backs to the Wrong Schemes


Posted on March 7, 2017
By Derrik Klassen

Dalvin Cook is a master at setting up blocks to work the way that he wants them to. Cook is immediately moved off of his initial angle on this play, but quickly adjusts his feet and angle to prepare himself to handle the linebacker crashing outside of the right tackle. Cook presses the play to the right and forces the linebacker to commit, then hops back inside and again sets himself up to make whatever move he needs to. With two defenders directly in front of him, Cook chooses to accelerate laterally and outrun the two defenders, eventually slipping a third tackle before running into open field.

Man/gap schemes aren’t “point and shoot” in the way that they are often made out to be. That may be their intent, but the nature of trying to vertically displace defenders is going to create scenarios where traffic has to be dealt with on a horizontal plane because the runner would otherwise be running directly into the defender if he continued his vertical venture. Man/gap schemes require the running back to be able to create for himself, one way or another. Running backs have to be equipped for that.

 

[Borden]

I think Cook is only has average NFL burst. He has good acceleration but not burst. As in, 0-5 yards not elite, 6-20 elite. Obviously, he doesn't have a crazy long speed but that's a bit over rated for RBs. I think his "poor" jumps kind of show this when you consider he had a decent 40. 

A man blocking scheme usually sees better results with the guys who have better burst. Hit the hole with as much speed and power as you can. As your article states, "that is their intent" to point and shoot. Just because plays break down doesn't mean that coaches don't want plays run a certain way.

 

[Biabreakable]

I think Cook is only has average NFL burst. He has good acceleration but not burst. As in, 0-5 yards not elite, 6-20 elite. Obviously, he doesn't have a crazy long speed but that's a bit over rated for RBs. I think his "poor" jumps kind of show this when you consider he had a decent 40. 

A man blocking scheme usually sees better results with the guys who have better burst. Hit the hole with as much speed and power as you can. As your article states, "that is their intent" to point and shoot. Just because plays break down doesn't mean that coaches don't want plays run a certain way.

So you are saying that Cook is not athletic enough for the power blocking scheme?

 

[Borden]

So you are saying that Cook is not athletic enough for the power blocking scheme?

Power and man are not the same. Power blocking includes IZ runs. But for the purpose of this discussion, yes. He's lacks the pure explosiveness. He's not the traditional downhill back. This is his weakness.

Can he run it? Of course, any NFL back can but his success will be limited.

 

[Biabreakable]

Well we disagree.

I believe Dalvin Cook is a transcendent talent and what he is good at should be effective in any blocking scheme.

 

[Pipes]

I love how so many are saying that Latavius Murray is a bum now Cook is in the fold.

 

[SayWhat?]

I love how so many are saying that Latavius Murray is a bum now Cook is in the fold.

He's on essentially a one year $3.5MM deal.  I'm pretty sure Cook being in the fold has little to do with the reality that Latavius Murray is a bottom rung NFL starter.  If he weren't, Oakland or another team would have ponied up more than the dregs on their last legs (AP, Lynch, Charles) are getting.

 

[nirad3]

He's on essentially a one year $3.5MM deal.  I'm pretty sure Cook being in the fold has little to do with the reality that Latavius Murray is a bottom rung NFL starter.  If he weren't, Oakland or another team would have ponied up more than the dregs on their last legs (AP, Lynch, Charles) are getting.

Let's also not forget Murray was a 6th round pick out of Central Florida.  A 6'3" back who - as most backs of his height do - runs rather upright.  After his bust-out rookie season where he ran for 5.2 ypc in limited action, he's been right at 4.0 ypc in his two years as a starter.  Including last year, where Oakland's OL was considered one of the best units in the NFL.

Cook is built more like a prototypical RB, played for a powerhouse and his team moved up to get him.

Murray is going to have to set the world on fire to be the starter in MIN in 2018.  Good luck behind a lesser OL with a talented rookie challenging you for PT.

 

[FreeBaGeL]

He's on essentially a one year $3.5MM deal.  I'm pretty sure Cook being in the fold has little to do with the reality that Latavius Murray is a bottom rung NFL starter.  If he weren't, Oakland or another team would have ponied up more than the dregs on their last legs (AP, Lynch, Charles) are getting.

Well he's really on a 3 year $15MM deal.  The problem with the out after the first year is that it means if Cook comes out of the gates slowly like several of the current top RBs have (Gordon, Freeman, Ajayi) then they'll probably pick up the option, and at that point he's probably around for the full 3 years and making too much money to just sit on the bench.

Also I have no idea what you're talking about with his deal not being worth more than guys like Charles.  Charles' base salary is $900k and incentives could bring it up to a max of $3.7MM.  Murray's base salary is $3.4MM and incentives could bring it up above $4.5MM.  The only way Charles makes as much money as Murray this year is if Charles rushes for 3000 yards and wins a Super Bowl while Murray skips every team activity, kicks Mike Zimmer in the nuts, and never gets a carry.

 

[SayWhat?]

Well he's really on a 3 year $15MM deal.  The problem with the out after the first year is that it means if Cook comes out of the gates slowly like several of the current top RBs have (Gordon, Freeman, Ajayi) then they'll probably pick up the option, and at that point he's probably around for the full 3 years and making too much money to just sit on the bench.

Think whatever you'd like, but there is a zero percent chance that Murray's option for $5MM is picked up next year, regardless of how Cook performs.  

 

[Pipes]

He's on essentially a one year $3.5MM deal.  I'm pretty sure Cook being in the fold has little to do with the reality that Latavius Murray is a bottom rung NFL starter.  If he weren't, Oakland or another team would have ponied up more than the dregs on their last legs (AP, Lynch, Charles) are getting.

But no one was saying that about Murray until they drafted Cook.  That's my point is he is being diminished now.  I do think Cook is the more talented of the 2 but their presence is going to hurt each other's fantasy value for 2017.

 

[Bojang0301]

But no one was saying that about Murray until they drafted Cook.  That's my point is he is being diminished now.  I do think Cook is the more talented of the 2 but their presence is going to hurt each other's fantasy value for 2017.

You're not paying attention if you think that. Just take a gander in the Lat Murray thread. Plenty are saying he underachieved and was very average with the Raiders.

 

[Mavis]

But no one was saying that about Murray until they drafted Cook.  That's my point is he is being diminished now.  I do think Cook is the more talented of the 2 but their presence is going to hurt each other's fantasy value for 2017.

Many people were down on Murray, I saw it first hand as the hate was unreasonable. For Cook, people need to stop expecting rookies to produce the first year. What has gotten into people where it has become the expectation that if rookies dont perform they are devalued. No learning curve? No waiting behind a veteran player? Cook will be the guy in 2018, and get 50% for Murray, 40 for Cook and 10 for McKinnon barring injury barring injury. These people who ever thought McKinnon was good in anyway were just trying to muster value for their player before he was cut in all leagues.  

 

[Warhogs]

I asked a Viking friend of mine to sell me on Cook.  Here are some of his points.

Look at the college tape, you can see he is a gifted RB.

Look at the other weapons on the Vikings roster, he is going to be their #1 weapon on offense.

QB is check down Charlie, he will be getting a ton of dump off passes.

Look at the other defenses in the division, his divisional opponents all have defenses ranked in the bottom half of the league.

Murray may hold down his touches as a rookie but I think he has some valid points.  I hold the 1.02 in a league that will start drafting soon and I still don't know who I will be taking but I am considering some of these points.

 

[Pipes]

You're not paying attention if you think that. Just take a gander in the Lat Murray thread. Plenty are saying he underachieved and was very average with the Raiders.

Raiders' fans maybe but not Vikings fans.  I know a bunch of Vikings fans that were pumped about the Murray signing.  They all did a 180 once they drafted Cook saying the Murray is a bum and that Cook will be the man. 

 

[Faust]

A very interesting article:

A Closer Look at Dalvin Cook

 

[Faust]

Lunchbreak: 2 of 5 NFL Executives Predict Dalvin Cook as 2017 Offensive ROY

 

[rockaction]

 The only way Charles makes as much money as Murray this year is if Charles rushes for 3000 yards and wins a Super Bowl while Murray skips every team activity, kicks Mike Zimmer in the nuts, and never gets a carry.

That's funny. Nice. 

 

[Biabreakable]

Instant Analysis: Vikings Offense More Dynamic With Dalvin Cook

Scheme Fit


Cook is a generational talent that could realistically be a good fit in any offense in the NFL. But he’s nearly a perfect fit for Pat Shurmur in Minnesota. He’s a very natural receiver out of the backfield and excels on screen passes, using that vision and patience.

As a pass protector, Cook could improve his technique quite a bit but the want-to attitude is definitely there. Shurmur’s quick passing tendencies should act as a cover up for Cook’s technique issues while they improve.

He thrived in all kinds of blocking schemes executed by Florida State, whether it was a gap, man or zone scheme. Shurmur and Tony Sparano like to use a little bit of both man and zone schemes which should allow Cook to fit right in.

Cook’s role will likely begin as a change-of-pace option for Murray in the 2017 season. But let’s remember — both McKinnon and Murray are essentially in contract years. The future at the running back position appears to include Cook as the primary guy with either Murray or McKinnon as a complementary option

 

[Biabreakable]

Raiders' fans maybe but not Vikings fans.  I know a bunch of Vikings fans that were pumped about the Murray signing.  They all did a 180 once they drafted Cook saying the Murray is a bum and that Cook will be the man. 

What Vikings fans are you talking about? From my perspective the fan reaction to Murray was pretty meh and I read copious amounts of Vikings information and opinion. 

Murray is very good at pass protection, he can catch the ball and he is an average runner. His main job is going to be as a pass protector. That is what he was signed for. He is an upgrade for Matt Asiata. That is the way I described it right after the signing.

I don't think anyone expected Dalvin Cook to be available to the Vikings. If they had drafted a later round RB such as Perine or something, then sure Murray would likely get more opportunity than he will with Cook as his competition.

There certainly wasn't any Vikings fans in this forum who were very excited about Murray.

 

[Warhogs]

My Viking friends were happy to get Murray as they viewed him as the best free agent available that wasn't on old dog.  And after AP was let go they needed something.  The contract is something they can get out of after one year easily enough.  If Murray comes in and plays lights out he probably stays around.  If he is just pedestrian this job becomes Cook's job and that could happen before, during or after 2017.

 

[Xue]

Dalvin Cook still doesn't care about your agility drills.

https://twitter.com/lifesyourcup/status/860650370644692992

 

[Biabreakable]

Dalvin Cook still doesn't care about your agility drills.

https://twitter.com/lifesyourcup/status/860650370644692992

Xue what do you think about this data?

ESPN’s Sports Science reflected what can be seen when watching Cook’s game film: Cook, in pads, is often fastest man on the field. The show measured Cook’s speed and concluded that he is the fastest running back that has been tested in the past five years. He also had the same 20-yard split time as Washington WR John Ross -- who set a Combine record with a 4.22-second 40-yard dash last month -- in pads.

Seems like this could be an excellent resource for player athletic evaluation to supplement the combine metrics and the measurements you do with counting film frames. 

 

[CanadianNFLJunkie]

This is probably the worst possible fit for Cook. Sparano is runs/wants a man blocking scheme. Here's a long article if you won't want to believe me. What makes Cook special is his ability to setup blocks but man (or gap if you prefer) is about OL getting to guy. Sure the RB can help set things up with small moves but it's not as deliberate. Mixon would've been a WAY better fit in Min. 

This feels like a pick they made because it was the best "draft value" rather than best player for their team. They wanted/needed an RB and there was a highly touted guy on the board where they could go get him. I would like to think that they have intentions to go to a zone based scheme when they drafted him but then why would you bring in Murray? 

The way I see this turning out is Cook looks bad (or not as good as he should) because they are using him wrong. Then everyone is going to stay how much he sucks. After that I want to say he will go a smart team that knows how to use him but who knows. 

http://www.dailynorseman.com/2017/5/3/15521174/revamping-the-vikings-offensive-line Try reading this article which isn't 5 months old about the O-line.

 

[Mavis]

http://www.dailynorseman.com/2017/5/3/15521174/revamping-the-vikings-offensive-line Try reading this article which isn't 5 months old about the O-line.

The rhetoric and story line is the line will be awful and no Vikings players behind that line will do anything to resemble an NFL player. Stop messing it up, people need doubt and to believe teams cant get better. lol This Vikings OLine will be worst for ever, do not say anything otherwise. While I am being sarcastic, you would believe from some of the comments that is how many believe. 

From the article:

Projecting the Vikings Offensive Line Depth Chart

At this point, not knowing how things will pan out in training camp, the most likely scenario is this:

Riley Reiff - LT

Alex Boone - LG

Pat Elflein - C

Joe Berger - RG

Mike Remmers - RT

Overall, that gives the Vikings two average tackles, a good right-guard, an average left-guard, and a top-tier rookie center. While that doesn’t sound particularly compelling, compare it to last year’s starting line-up:

Matt Kalil - LT

Alex Boone - LG

Joe Berger - C

Brandon Fusco - RG

Andre Smith - RT

That line-up featured two bad tackles, a good center, a bad right guard and an average left guard. So, if the current projected starting line-up happens, that represents an upgrade from bad to average of both tackles spots, and effectively an upgrade from bad to ‘top-tier rookie’ of one interior line spot.

Overall, that suggests an improvement from a bad to an average offensive line - which would be a huge improvement.

 

[Borden]

http://www.dailynorseman.com/2017/5/3/15521174/revamping-the-vikings-offensive-line Try reading this article which isn't 5 months old about the O-line.

Sorry. I will try to go into the future a few hours and scan for internet articles. Seems like a valid use of my time machine. If you read the whole article they say the same thing about the OL coach but that's no matter because...

Z-B-S! Z-B-S! Cook's number 1! (In my heart) Woop! Woop!

I'm back on board! This makes me very happy this is going Murray is no longer a problem and I'm very happy with the Vikes. I'm not being sarcastic even. This is great.

 

[Faust]

Vikings RB Dalvin Cook stands out on first day of rookies’ minicamp

 

[Faust]

3 Observations from Vikings Rookie Minicamp

 

[Zyphros]

I keep trying to re-watch him with an open mind, but I can't find myself liking him no matter how hard I try.  He's a tough guy for me to crack when everyone likes him at least a little bit but I just can't seem to find my way to like him.  I have no idea what it is because when I look at my notes they are very positive but something is off for me.  I come into this thread a lot to figure it out and maybe my mind will change but it just isn't happening. 

 

[Mavis]

I keep trying to re-watch him with an open mind, but I can't find myself liking him no matter how hard I try.  He's a tough guy for me to crack when everyone likes him at least a little bit but I just can't seem to find my way to like him.  I have no idea what it is because when I look at my notes they are very positive but something is off for me.  I come into this thread a lot to figure it out and maybe my mind will change but it just isn't happening. 

 

[Biabreakable]

What Mavis bolded from Zyphris post is a contradictory statement. If you don't like Cook no matter what, then you are not being open minded about it.

What do you not like about Cook Zyphros?

 

[Zyphros]

What Mavis bolded from Zyphris post is a contradictory statement. If you don't like Cook no matter what, then you are not being open minded about it.

What do you not like about Cook Zyphros?

Not contradictory at all.  I try to go in with an open mind and all but I still come away questioning him being a legit RB.  Sub-conscious maybe, but I do my best to exclude that from a fresh look at the guy.  He's never impressed me to the extent of love he's received.  Like I said my notes are actually pretty glowing of the guy, but what I write down doesn't match what my eyes are seeing in the overall view of it.  For example I have it written on my scratch page "decent burst and follows blocks well with quick feet, not as explosive" but then I watch some more it leaves me with questions.  I really don't know a good way to explain it, but the easiest way is he doesn't pop to my eyes.  Lot's of people way smarter than I am have gone out and said otherwise which makes me think I'm missing it, and I've ranked him semi-close to the top out of respect for all those people, but this mantra of "watch the tape instead of the combine" is just annoying to me when I don't see what others are seeing on the tape.  

I think he's a "get what's blocked" kind of RB a better version of Corey Clement with less power but he isn't a star.  

 

[Tau837]

I think he's a "get what's blocked" kind of RB

This makes no sense. Cook led the nation in yards after contact last year. 

 

[Mavis]

Not contradictory at all.  I try to go in with an open mind and all but I still come away questioning him being a legit RB.  Sub-conscious maybe, but I do my best to exclude that from a fresh look at the guy.  He's never impressed me to the extent of love he's received.  Like I said my notes are actually pretty glowing of the guy, but what I write down doesn't match what my eyes are seeing in the overall view of it.  For example I have it written on my scratch page "decent burst and follows blocks well with quick feet, not as explosive" but then I watch some more it leaves me with questions.  I really don't know a good way to explain it, but the easiest way is he doesn't pop to my eyes.  Lot's of people way smarter than I am have gone out and said otherwise which makes me think I'm missing it, and I've ranked him semi-close to the top out of respect for all those people, but this mantra of "watch the tape instead of the combine" is just annoying to me when I don't see what others are seeing on the tape.  

I think he's a "get what's blocked" kind of RB a better version of Corey Clement with less power but he isn't a star.  

My problem is after you watched tape, then rewatched tape, you question if he is a legit RB? 

 

[FreeBaGeL]

Not contradictory at all.  I try to go in with an open mind and all but I still come away questioning him being a legit RB.  Sub-conscious maybe, but I do my best to exclude that from a fresh look at the guy.  He's never impressed me to the extent of love he's received.  Like I said my notes are actually pretty glowing of the guy, but what I write down doesn't match what my eyes are seeing in the overall view of it.  For example I have it written on my scratch page "decent burst and follows blocks well with quick feet, not as explosive" but then I watch some more it leaves me with questions.  I really don't know a good way to explain it, but the easiest way is he doesn't pop to my eyes.  Lot's of people way smarter than I am have gone out and said otherwise which makes me think I'm missing it, and I've ranked him semi-close to the top out of respect for all those people, but this mantra of "watch the tape instead of the combine" is just annoying to me when I don't see what others are seeing on the tape.  

I think he's a "get what's blocked" kind of RB a better version of Corey Clement with less power but he isn't a star.  

Wow I could not be more opposite.  Everything I read is bad.  Poor timed drills, red flags all over the place.  But when I watch him I think "wow, this guy is good".

That said, if you don't like what you see there is no reason to force yourself to.  Liking someone that the consensus doesn't or not liking someone that the consensus does are some of the things that separate us as fantasy owners.  Don't be afraid to go out on a limb and avoid him if you don't think he'll be good.  If we all just followed the consensus, FF would be pretty boring.

 

[nirad3]

This makes no sense. Cook led the nation in yards after contact last year. 

  that's awesome

 

[Borden]

Not contradictory at all.  I try to go in with an open mind and all but I still come away questioning him being a legit RB.  Sub-conscious maybe, but I do my best to exclude that from a fresh look at the guy.  He's never impressed me to the extent of love he's received.  Like I said my notes are actually pretty glowing of the guy, but what I write down doesn't match what my eyes are seeing in the overall view of it.  For example I have it written on my scratch page "decent burst and follows blocks well with quick feet, not as explosive" but then I watch some more it leaves me with questions.  I really don't know a good way to explain it, but the easiest way is he doesn't pop to my eyes.  Lot's of people way smarter than I am have gone out and said otherwise which makes me think I'm missing it, and I've ranked him semi-close to the top out of respect for all those people, but this mantra of "watch the tape instead of the combine" is just annoying to me when I don't see what others are seeing on the tape.  

I think he's a "get what's blocked" kind of RB a better version of Corey Clement with less power but he isn't a star.  

First, your expectations because of the hype might be off. 

Second, "get what's blocked" is what, I think, is tripping you up. 

I agree that (contrary to others but like I've said in this thread before) is that Cook isn't an NFL super stud RB athlete. But, I think you are down playing things with "what's blocked for". To me this is what makes him special. He's not just finding holes, he's creating them. And on top of that he's doing the small things to exploit those openings. He pushes the outside with enough speed to make second level defenders turn their hips and run but not too fast that he out runs his blocks. He always has his feet moving which allows him to shoot through gaps with speed. Almost all his nice runs come from setting guys up. It seems like he understands what the guys on defense have to do (contain, maintain A gap, etc) and pushes them to the point of commitment. But by the time/as they do, he has already switched lanes and is up field.

It also allows him to shake tacklers at the second level. A lot of times with stud RBs, they have such insane burst that they can stop, cut and burst by tacklers. Cook doesn't have that same burst but because of his foot frequency and football IQ/vision he's able to make the same looking plays while at the same time not looking "special". 

I think if you watch his tape with the mind frame of he's only an "average" NFL athlete but a masterful technician of an running back, you might view him differently. Let me know if you see it any different through that lens.

 

[BigTex]

My only real concern about Cook at this point is can he protect the QB because if he can't do that nothing else matters.

Tex

 

[FreeBaGeL]

My only real concern about Cook at this point is can he protect the QB because if he can't do that nothing else matters.

Tex

Poor pass protection is one of his many listed red flags.

 

[Super King]

My only real concern about Cook at this point is can he protect the QB because if he can't do that nothing else matters.

Tex

Plus his fumbling problem... Isn't it like one fumble to every 63 carries... 

 

[FreeBaGeL]

Plus his fumbling problem... Isn't it like one fumble to every 63 carries... 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OelDNgObaR4

 

[Super King]

Fumbles and can't pass protect... Oof... 

 

[FreeBaGeL]

FWIW once in 63 carries is a lot, and is the second worst among RBs that were drafted.

Elliott for instance fumbled once every 163 touches in college.  McCaffrey once every 244.  Fournette isn't great either at once ever 83 touches so he's actually probably being helped by Cook, otherwise I think there would be a lot more attention given to his fumbles.

 

[Super King]

He looks like someone who could be awesome. In game... But, the poor combine scores, plus the fumbling, and poor pass protection references, AND having a 7th round ADP. I don't know...

 

[BigTex]

Plus his fumbling problem... Isn't it like one fumble to every 63 carries... 

The fumbling is overblown and can easily be corrected. 

Tex

 

[Mavis]

FWIW once in 63 carries is a lot, and is the second worst among RBs that were drafted.

Elliott for instance fumbled once every 163 touches in college.  McCaffrey once every 244.  Fournette isn't great either at once ever 83 touches so he's actually probably being helped by Cook, otherwise I think there would be a lot more attention given to his fumbles.

He looks like someone who could be awesome. In game... But, the poor combine scores, plus the fumbling, and poor pass protection references, AND having a 7th round ADP. I don't know...

Fumbling is coachable, how quick is his vision compared to everyone in the draft? Pass protection? As a rookie, that is concern in a fantasy football draft, plus its something that is also teachable. People who reference underwear olympics and scores are funny, I mean it. The combine is outdated and tells us nothing about football in reality. We see it every year and people still clamor to it since its for us obsessed football fans to watch in February. Cook can have the worse scores, then I watch the tape. Then I see how quick his numbers are in pads, which matter, not underwear. Then I watch real drills with times like his vision test on sports science and realize I dont care about his times at a combine in underwear when he is the fastest in pads. A three cone drill? Long jump? Verticle? WTF does any of that matter? I'm supposed to doubt his ability to cut because his times on a cone drill, when I can see with my eyes what he does in pads? Watching people quote combine numbers in tights when the person is trying to run in pads from 11 people is amazing. Combines mean nothing, Absolutely nothing. Especially when players care more about their pro-day. Davis was drafted 5th without a 40 time, Mixon wasnt even at the combine and McCaffery didnt even do a proday. Cook is the prime candidate who shows you combines mean nothing, but his play in pads does. "But he ran ____ speed in underwear" some will say. I dont care how popular or mainstream you think the combine is, it means nothing. I know what I am saying is taboo, but defend the combine and make my point for me that you care more about underwear speeds than pad speeds and game tape. Remember when DHB went high because of his combine? 

And if none of that matters to you, just watch the tape from his first day at camp, catching all the rave reviews and his tape shows the combined means nothing for agility, who knew?

 

[Biabreakable]

Not contradictory at all.  I try to go in with an open mind and all but I still come away questioning him being a legit RB.  Sub-conscious maybe, but I do my best to exclude that from a fresh look at the guy.  He's never impressed me to the extent of love he's received.  Like I said my notes are actually pretty glowing of the guy, but what I write down doesn't match what my eyes are seeing in the overall view of it.  For example I have it written on my scratch page "decent burst and follows blocks well with quick feet, not as explosive" but then I watch some more it leaves me with questions.  I really don't know a good way to explain it, but the easiest way is he doesn't pop to my eyes.  Lot's of people way smarter than I am have gone out and said otherwise which makes me think I'm missing it, and I've ranked him semi-close to the top out of respect for all those people, but this mantra of "watch the tape instead of the combine" is just annoying to me when I don't see what others are seeing on the tape.  

I think he's a "get what's blocked" kind of RB a better version of Corey Clement with less power but he isn't a star.  

If you cannot see how that is a contradiction I don't know what else to tell you. It is.

How do you take notes of a player that contradicts what your eyes see? What do your notes say? How did you make notes about the player without using your eyes?

This is another contradictory statement.

I'm just going to stop here. Good luck with your evaluations.

 

[Biabreakable]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OelDNgObaR4

lol

 

[Zyphros]

If you cannot see how that is a contradiction I don't know what else to tell you. It is.

How do you take notes of a player that contradicts what your eyes see? What do your notes say? How did you make notes about the player without using your eyes?

This is another contradictory statement.

I'm just going to stop here. Good luck with your evaluations.

You've never made a note of a player of "wow insert whatever positive note you want" and then 2 seconds later that player doesn't do something you would have liked to see?  It's very easy to leave something to be desired after taking a note and that's what happened when I watched him.  Think it through, you'll understand eventually.

I agree that (contrary to others but like I've said in this thread before) is that Cook isn't an NFL super stud RB athlete. But, I think you are down playing things with "what's blocked for". To me this is what makes him special. He's not just finding holes, he's creating them. And on top of that he's doing the small things to exploit those openings. He pushes the outside with enough speed to make second level defenders turn their hips and run but not too fast that he out runs his blocks. He always has his feet moving which allows him to shoot through gaps with speed. Almost all his nice runs come from setting guys up. It seems like he understands what the guys on defense have to do (contain, maintain A gap, etc) and pushes them to the point of commitment. But by the time/as they do, he has already switched lanes and is up field.

It also allows him to shake tacklers at the second level. A lot of times with stud RBs, they have such insane burst that they can stop, cut and burst by tacklers. Cook doesn't have that same burst but because of his foot frequency and football IQ/vision he's able to make the same looking plays while at the same time not looking "special". 

I think if you watch his tape with the mind frame of he's only an "average" NFL athlete but a masterful technician of an running back, you might view him differently. Let me know if you see it any different through that lens.

This was interesting and actually helped a little bit.  I watched 3 games clips again at random (Louisville, Clemson, BC) and found him to be a little more appealing at using those subtleties to make his way through and get a bigger play.  I have my doubts that someone does that intentionally with that much thought but I suppose it's possible.  

 

[Faust]

Vikes RB coach: I believe Dalvin Cook wants to be great