titusbramble
Footballguy
I would think there's some team that needs somebody down the stretch that they pick him up. But sure glad I got out in spring of 2024 for a third
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RB Dameon Pierce, KC (4 Viewers)
- Thread starter Faust
- Start date
Lansdowne
Footballguy
Yeah my biggest thing with NFL teams doing it is RBs have a short shelf life and, if they’re elite, will often price themselves out to the point of being allowed to walk in free agency or be traded. Elite QBs and WRs almost never make it to free agency, they are either extended with the team that drafted them or traded and then extended with their new teams. The Panthers rewarded Chuba Hubbard for his excellent play last season with a contract extension, only to see Rico Dowdle, who they got for much cheaper, come in and Wally Pipp him midseason. If your run blocking system is strong, even average talents will have success in it.
For fantasy purposes though it’s smart to target RBs who NFL teams took in the first two rounds, because they typically get more opportunities and longer leashes. Teams that passed on talent at more premium positions are going to want that return on investment. Players still need to perform but it takes longer for a 1-2 round RB to be replaced than someone drafted later as a dart throw. For example Clyde Edwards-Helaire was trash and it took until halfway through his third season for the Chiefs to finally replace him. I know I’m arguing against myself by citing a 1st round bust but just goes to show how much more wiggle room RBs with high draft capital have.
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No no makes total sense. I get it. I agree.
Lansdowne
Footballguy
JohnnyU
Footballguy
I don’t get it. If he’s good enough why was he erased by a team that could use the depth? I read somewhere the Texans scheme is made for Pierce. Maybe he would fit another team better.
rockaction
Footballguy
I actually agree with both sides and just want to say that the fantasy landscape no longer maps any sort of reality at the LB or RB positions, and once you start debating draft capital and what it means like you guys are; well, unless you’re horrendous at the eye test then welcome to the world of whim, randomness, and accepting those two things as non-determinative of your appraisals and talents as a fantasy player.
WR is the only holdout where you can almost count on your elite capital not getting trampled but then see Jacksonville this year with draft capital and extreme talent introduced to a new and foreign element in its ecosystem and the gypsy moths just felled the elms like it was redux, boys, and Main St. just changed forever all over again.
WR is the only holdout where you can almost count on your elite capital not getting trampled but then see Jacksonville this year with draft capital and extreme talent introduced to a new and foreign element in its ecosystem and the gypsy moths just felled the elms like it was redux, boys, and Main St. just changed forever all over again.
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Logistics.
Mid week, game-plans in place, you'd have to cut someone to make room for him and he'd likely not have a role. Teams are interested in him and he'll sign early next week, but might get signed to practice squad at first.
Lansdowne
Footballguy
When looking at scheme fits I look for teams who have coaches that coached the player in college. Two teams fit the bill for Dameon Pierce in this situation:
New Orleans Saints: Doug Nussmeier is their OC and was Pierce’s OC at Florida his freshman season
Washington Commanders: Brian Johnson is their assistant head coach and offensive pass game coordinator and was Pierce’s OC at Florida his senior season
rockaction
Footballguy
Oh baby, you know it. Let's get up to speed by Week 15, huh?
Heh. That doesn't surprise me in the least. Let us introduce the thirsty man in the desert to a tall, cool drink of water. And it's more than a gallon.
Heh. That doesn't surprise me in the least. Let us introduce the thirsty man in the desert to a tall, cool drink of water. And it's more than a gallon.
socrates
Footballguy
Pierce is a younger player who can fill the Kareen Hunt role. Pierce obviously isn't as skilled as Hunt, but he gives you another inside banger who can run through contact and grind out the tough yards behind KC's big o-line. There is a potential future role for Pierce in KC, especially given Hunt's age. I thought CEH ran hard yesterday, but he is not reliable. Brashard Smith offers a change of pace and good option in the receiving game, but the Chiefs leaned heavily on Hunt yesterday and lacked another inside runner to ease the load on Hunt. Pacheco still projects as the lead back (1a to Hunt's 1b) when he returns, but his running style subjects him to big hits and injuries. I like the fit for Pierce.
sushinsky4tsar
Footballguy
What the heck, I'm back in. I just dropped TeSlaa for him, which means he's probably on his way to Canton and this goes down as one last gut punch on the D. Pierce Express. I'm much stronger with WR depth than RB and I think there's actually some opportunity for him to make his case as a cheap option in 2026. TeSlaa takes an injury or unexpected trade.
Maybe signing to the practice squad is procedural and he has some assurances that he'll get a look. However, this business about one third of the league knocking down the door for his services, while not giving up a conditional 7-6 swap doesn't compute at all. It's not like it's negligence of duty on the Texans part. They were able to turn in a broken down Akers for late round draft scraps.
It's becoming an obsession at this point, but him returning to rookie year form on the Chiefs would kill me and I'm not beating anyone in faab bidding.
zamboni
Footballguy
Wouldn’t be out of character for them, like when McKinnon came out of nowhere for a year or two.
rockaction
Footballguy
Can't imagine Brett Veach looks out and at the season slipping away and is sanguine about his upcoming performance review. "So, the trading deadline passed and you didn't give the Jets a third (yes, yes, we know it was contract demands) for Breece Hall or go out and find anybody besides Slowly and Stompy and a converted receiver? And our practice squad had two guys who had speed scores of what?
Dude better get Dameon here post haste.
Dude better get Dameon here post haste.
FantasyGuru24
Footballguy
Chiefs are not trading away draft capital for half of season rental. We have zero cap space to sign Breece to a long term contract. We might tank to draft Jeremiyah Love in the first. In Veech we trust!
rockaction
Footballguy
Yeah, without getting caustic I decided to sit down and look and everything is coming up Dorsey. I typed this out but I'm too lazy to finish and tired of endlessly working for nothing to provide context and backdrop to people so they can piss on it. Sorry, nothing against you, just been done for about two years now. He drafted Trent McDuffie. He hit that pick and Trey Smith. He tells you what rounds are in which he likes to draft certain positions. It does not correspond with any new or intelligent research findings. In fact, it's often contra and terrible and like I said, I need to be doing other stuff than this, again not directed at you.
"If you can name one cornerstone of your team that comes from Brett Veach then I'm all ears. He's been coasting on fumes for six years. Time to pull that plug. The only thing that kept you all champions is Kermit, and he's sick of what's around him and it becomes more palpable, less competent, and I guarantee there are twenty-two teams licking their chops every time they consider his availability and ten thanking their lucky stars that they even have a shot at title. How you take an entire salary cap and manage a competent secondary, a great DT, excellent EDGE, two good linebackers, QB you weren't responsible, a unicorn WR who can't run more than ten yards downfield, a TE you didn't draft and can't replace, and absolutely jack **** of **** all and you drafted an obese running back in the first round whose speed score is the worst in ten-fifteen years for a first round pick, a 165 pound wide receiver who currently can't fight through any contact because his own tight end destroyed him via a simple collision, traded first, third, and fourth for a left tackle that you couldn't pay and then gave you two years (for those who can add and subtract that's three years of about , had one become Frank Clark (!?), and finally
nightmare
Footballguy
I think any team on the edge of making the playoffs should consider trading away a 3rd for B Hall. Deal with the hangover when it hits.
FantasyGuru24
Footballguy
Nah, that’s not the equation for sustained success. I’d be on board if we had the cap space to extend him but I’m not shelling out 3rd round picks for rentals. Here’s some notable 3rd round picks from the Chiefs: Justin Houston, Jamaal Charles, Travis Kelce, and Kareem Hunt.
rockaction
Footballguy
None of whom were drafted by Brett Veach. That bit is relevant.
Don’t really want to get into it because the amount of time is prohibitive and then we have to define terms., etc., but the third round is rough for finding anything outside of misses and mediocrities.
FantasyGuru24
Footballguy
I think Brett next to Howie is the best in the biz .. Wouldn’t want another GM in the game.
King of the Jungle
Footballguy
Veach has done an great job over the years, incredibly consistent.
rockaction
Footballguy
I'm sorry, consistently what? Consistently terrible with one deviation from the norm of "set phasers to suck," then sure. Dorsey drafted all those guys. Veach missed on every first round pick but McDuffie. That's terrible.
I'm looking at and reading articles where the agents are like, "you traded your 1st, 3rd, 4th, next year's 4th for Orlando Brown and didn't extend him right away?"
That's terrible. Brown walked after two years. He lost three years of control over his first-round pick. How is trading a first for a Frank Clark in 2019 consistently anything but terrible?
Go through his first-round picks, or what he acquired with that capital. Wow.
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King of the Jungle
Footballguy
Bottom line in my mind is this team has been a near dynasty after drafting Mahomes, that to me is worth some consideration. Every year they compete and won three SBs, the guy is doing something right. Easy to point to the errors of drafting or misses in FA/trade, but he has had some huge wins in those areas and has helped reshaped this franchise.
rockaction
Footballguy
Point me to one significant guy that wasn't drafted by Dorsey not named Creed Humphrey or Trent McDuffie. I started a thread about it. I'll cut and paste Veach's drafts for you if you'd like. No problem take me three or four minutes.
I mean, it's fine when you say "bottom line in my mind" for you to walk away self-assured and convinced of it in your world. You can be happy and content with satisfied and evidence-free thinking. That's what your sentence implies, nay, forces me to infer.
So whither the players?
And I'll bump the thread for you so we don't ruin the Pierce one (too late and my little dialogue was just my fictionally situational framing saying I think you'll see him ASAP if they squeak by Houston. Good luck, KC!
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King of the Jungle
Footballguy
Yes, back to Pierce…
rockaction
Footballguy
Yeah, see it's the inevitable comment like this max effort dismissiveness that seems to stem from a POV that hasn't considered that the two of them together (GM/Pierce) are intertwined in a significant way, and that one needs context to understand how and how it might play out. GM could go a bunch of ways, and reading the tea leaves correctly saves you a roster spot and precious FAAB dollars spent or it helps you win Week 16 if he makes and blows up. But in order for that to be a reality, you have to consider the angles, and in the end someone has to call him up from the practice squad or leave him there or release him, and whether or not they do one of those three is, in part, going to come from human beliefs and cognition we ought to be aware of.
IT=INFO
And I don't expect you to spend your time looking at the stuff I provided you by bumping that thread. I don't expect a second of your time because I know better. But if you're going to take the effort to say something, how about just say something kind like, "I don't have the time, today or in the near future, and I'm fine with my opinion." A response like yours is why I generally just don't anymore. Have fun with all your friends on the internet. Peace and lol
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rockaction
Footballguy
This is a really funny exchange in retrospect, all things considered.
rockaction
Footballguy
So by his own or the accepted public version of it, he offered (sorry, edited for specificity) a fourth but not a third. To address the logic of longevity and disparity between the third and fourth rounds, we can turn here. For those who don't want to click because they don't want their window with medical research to diminish, here's the main table.
(Column 1-- Round) (Column 2 -- Avg. Reg. Season Games ) (Column 3 -- Avg. Reg Season Games Computed In Football Years)
| 1 | 62.3 | 3.7 |
| 2 | 56.3 | 3.3 |
| 3 | 48.1 | 2.8 |
| 4 | 44.4 | 2.6 |
| 5 | 40.5 | 2.4 |
| 6 | 32.5 | 1.9 |
| 7 | 28.1 | 1.7 |
Andy Wittry, SI, methodology at the link.
How many career games NFL draft picks play, on average, by position
The average quarterback drafted into the NFL plays in just 30 regular season games. Here's a deep look on average career games by draft position.
www.ncaa.com
As far as your longevity point goes, Veach (crudely assessed from an average and a single occurrence) saved the Chiefs 3.7 regular season games via the draft and lost the possibility of gaining Breece's eight or nine games played for his club. That's just the longevity issue, which is certainly one prong of your point.
To get a better understanding of large populations, statistical inference from other than large populations, and sample sizes I often check out this thread.
***Please, Please, Please***
Keep this conversation civil, respectful and non-partisan. Healthcare and its discusssion should never be political!
A just-released Yale University study points to the striking similarities between 'Long Covid' and 'Covid Vax Injuries', aka Post-Vax Syndrome...
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So many theories have emerged about MRNA- and DNA-based Covid vaxxes and their effects on living beings that it warrants conversation...
Keep this conversation civil, respectful and non-partisan. Healthcare and its discusssion should never be political!
A just-released Yale University study points to the striking similarities between 'Long Covid' and 'Covid Vax Injuries', aka Post-Vax Syndrome...
Yale Researchers Find COVID Spike Protein in Blood 709 Days After Vaccination, Positing Millions of Long COVID Patients May Actually Be Vaccine Injured
NIH has poured $1.6 billion into Long COVID research, but little or nothing to study vaccine harms, causing patient advocates to hide vaccine injury.
disinformationchronicle.substack.com
So many theories have emerged about MRNA- and DNA-based Covid vaxxes and their effects on living beings that it warrants conversation...
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