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RB David Montgomery, DET (1 Viewer)

I don't think he looks explosive at all. In fact, quite the opposite. Doesn't look that powerful either. Not sure what people are watching with this guy. 

Admittedly the offense is a borderline disaster and Nagy has to shoulder much of the blame, but I just don't see it. 

 
Hot Sauce Guy said:
Montgomery is not slow. He ran a low 4.5 at the combine, which he improved on from the 4.65 time he’d previously been recorded at. Low 4.5 is a solid speed for an NFL power back. He’s also quite elusive & set, and broke records for broken tackles in college - a skill set he shown has translated well to the NFL. 
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There's what the combine 40 says, and then there's on-field speed. Some guys just run faster/slower than what their recorded 40. Montgomery and Hunt is my example - they have basically the same combine 40, but what I see on TV is so much different. Hunt looks impressive for his size, Montgomery just looks 'meh'. Not very scientific, but that is what I see.

And keep in mind, the issue for me was not long speed. As long as a 40 for a RB isn't terrible (i.e. 4.7+), I'm ok with a 4.6 / 4.65. I was worried about acceleration - how fast can you hit that hole. He is elusive, yes. Stutter steps, stop-starts, etc, all good, but part of that is that he may lack the athletic ability to burst up-field fast enough that defenders just keep collapsing on him.

 
pbandy1 said:
There's what the combine 40 says, and then there's on-field speed. Some guys just run faster/slower than what their recorded 40. Montgomery and Hunt is my example - they have basically the same combine 40, but what I see on TV is so much different. Hunt looks impressive for his size, Montgomery just looks 'meh'. Not very scientific, but that is what I see.

And keep in mind, the issue for me was not long speed. As long as a 40 for a RB isn't terrible (i.e. 4.7+), I'm ok with a 4.6 / 4.65. I was worried about acceleration - how fast can you hit that hole. He is elusive, yes. Stutter steps, stop-starts, etc, all good, but part of that is that he may lack the athletic ability to burst up-field fast enough that defenders just keep collapsing on him.
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I agree. Never disagreed with this 

But he’s not “slow”.

Blanket statements miss a lot of nuance - Montgomery’s game isn’t speed by any means. He’s power & decisiveness, and he’s got a wiggle that allows him to miss tackles - a rare trait for a guy who runs with violence. 

I’d love to see him with a competent run-blocking OL. 

 
Hot Sauce Guy said:
I agree. Never disagreed with this 

But he’s not “slow”.

Blanket statements miss a lot of nuance - Montgomery’s game isn’t speed by any means. He’s power & decisiveness, and he’s got a wiggle that allows him to miss tackles - a rare trait for a guy who runs with violence. 

I’d love to see him with a competent run-blocking OL. 
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true. As a Bears fan, this offensive line is completely incompetent. We need a bigger sample size with a decent line. Kyle Long is toast and beat up and needs to be benched. Daniels is an OK center but has not been overly impressive. Whitehair is legit. Leno is trash this year and that looks like a bad contract by Pace, and Massie is what he is, a serviceable and average right tackle.

 
pbandy1 said:
true. As a Bears fan, this offensive line is completely incompetent. We need a bigger sample size with a decent line. Kyle Long is toast and beat up and needs to be benched. Daniels is an OK center but has not been overly impressive. Whitehair is legit. Leno is trash this year and that looks like a bad contract by Pace, and Massie is what he is, a serviceable and average right tackle.
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Imagine Montgomery in the Broncos 1-cut scheme. 

 
Unless trailing like this week he will still maintain a large workload which is great value alone. Wouldn’t be surprised to see him get his sea legs 2nd half the year and win some titles for people. 

 
MrSoup said:
It'd be awful because he doesn't take just one cut. He dances behind the line like he's LeVeon Bell, but the problem is, he's not LeVeon Bell. 
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(Most recent owner due to trade) Anyway, you mentioned the longest run earlier You know Bell has one for 13 yds? (Bell also running at a crisp 2.9 avg)  Not making no argument I'm just pointing out possibly a bad example  I mean its almost the same OLine that Howard at times ran behind  It's going to be a few games before he gets Detroit so hopefully, the bye helps

Only so many games at the Pro level just yet  Let's not forget this is HC Nagy's guy   Basically, he might be a buy low as opposed to Bell...  

 
If anyone would know what a good RB looks like I think it would be Bears fans. 

Just as a thought experiment where would Bears fans rank Montgomery compared to the other RB they have had over the years? I assume Payton would be at the top of this list. Interested to see who else you guys would list for a top 10 and if Montgomery would make that list or not?

I know its too early to judge him completely. I just thought this might be interesting.

 
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pbandy1 said:
There's what the combine 40 says, and then there's on-field speed. Some guys just run faster/slower than what their recorded 40. Montgomery and Hunt is my example - they have basically the same combine 40, but what I see on TV is so much different. Hunt looks impressive for his size, Montgomery just looks 'meh'. Not very scientific, but that is what I see.

And keep in mind, the issue for me was not long speed. As long as a 40 for a RB isn't terrible (i.e. 4.7+), I'm ok with a 4.6 / 4.65. I was worried about acceleration - how fast can you hit that hole. He is elusive, yes. Stutter steps, stop-starts, etc, all good, but part of that is that he may lack the athletic ability to burst up-field fast enough that defenders just keep collapsing on him.
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So playing against stacked boxes because your garbage offense is averaging under 6 ypa makes you seem slow in eyeball tests and playing against light boxes because your elite offense is averaging over 8 ypa makes you seem fast in eyeball tests...

 
I think everyone here agrees that Tarik Cohen has elite speed and quickness in the NFL.  I think everyone also agrees that he's a pretty good RB that can make huge plays.  So far he is averaging 1.1 ypc less than Montgomery with 2.2 ypc.  He's also averaging 1.6 ypr less than Montgomery in receiving with 6.4 ypr.  I think that's a pretty good example of how speed and quickness do not make a difference on this Bears team with how terrible it's OL has been.  I think it actually proves that Montgomery's ability to break tackles and fight for that extra yard or two is what's separating him from the speedier back.  I know he's gotten first downs that a lot of other backs would be unable to get.

 
Dude in my league that has the Pats D just dropped Tarik Cohen to pick up a second defense.  And NE doesn't have their bye for another month!

If that doesn't speak volumes about the state of Bears RBs, I'm not sure what else could.

 
FF Ninja said:
So playing against stacked boxes because your garbage offense is averaging under 6 ypa makes you seem slow in eyeball tests and playing against light boxes because your elite offense is averaging over 8 ypa makes you seem fast in eyeball tests...
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Thought he lacked the athletic traits since college, like I said earlier in this thread. I made my opinion on him when I would watch him at Iowa, and so far that opinion hasn't changed.

 
Biabreakable said:
If anyone would know what a good RB looks like I think it would be Bears fans. 

Just as a thought experiment where would Bears fans rank Montgomery compared to the other RB they have had over the years? I assume Payton would be at the top of this list. Interested to see who else you guys would list for a top 10 and if Montgomery would make that list or not?

I know its too early to judge him completely. I just thought this might be interesting.
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Definitely too early too tell for DM, but I'm willing to bet almost every back on this list I'm about to haphazardly put together had a much better O line than what DM is experiencing right now. Sweetness had garbage Olines for most of his career but then he is also the best football player of all time. So there is that. I'm going with the SB era here, and squeezing in Sayers because duh.

1. Sweetness

2. The Kansas Comet

3. Matt Forte

4. Thomas Jones

5. Neal Anderson

6. Anthony Thomas

7. Cedric Benson

8. Raymont Harris

9*. David Montgomery

Rashaan Salaam ran for 1000 but he doesn't get any love here.

So yea there is room for DM in my top ten list. But I can't even come up with 10 so it could be reduced to 8 if he doesn't get it together. But honestly I haven't seen a single ####### hole for him to run through yet. They need to run small slants, screens, hitches and vanilla basic passing game stuff on 1st damn down so they can run easier on 2nd and 3rd. If they get some rhythm DM could possibly eat. But we don't know who he is yet, and I can't come up with another Bears RB that should be there instead of him right now on this list. 

 
Thanks for the feedback on what is a really difficult question given that DM only has 5 games played.

I recall people not being sold on Forte earlier on in his career.

RB can get better over time.

 
He was dropped in my 12 team .5 PPR league and I picked him up.  I’m joining this therapy group.  I just need DM to be a flex.

 
Biabreakable said:
Thanks for the feedback on what is a really difficult question given that DM only has 5 games played.

I recall people not being sold on Forte earlier on in his career.

RB can get better over time.
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I got into some "heated" debates defending Forte when he came out. Good times, LOL.

Completely different type runner, though. Forte had the loose hips that made his escapability profile top-notch. Montgomery's calling card is breaking tackles & that's quite a chore in the NFL.

I officially was neutral on Monty when he came out because I didn't feel like I got a good read as to how his skill set would translate, but he's trending down at the moment, IMO.

 
This is a redraft bust, for sure. Not getting into debates about the quality of the back in question, but this is a terrible situation and terrible points earned. 

 
David Montgomery rushed twice for six yards in the Bears' Week 7 loss to the Saints, adding two receptions for 13 additional yards.

Montgomery also lost the first fumble of his NFL career. The entire Bears offense appeared to be out of sorts for virtually the entire afternoon, failing to clear even 90 yards by halftime. Game script didn’t set up well for Montgomery in this spot, as the Bears trailed by multiple scores for most of the game. Still, seven total rush attempts as a team is fairly ridiculous. He’s better approached as an upside RB3 as long as Tarik Cohen remains so involved. Perhaps next week’s home matchup against the Chargers will be the get-right spot that Mitch Trubisky and this offense need.

Oct 20, 2019, 8:01 PM ET
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Imagine they threw this guy the ball a little. I mean something besides trying to run him up his lineman’s backs. 

 
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I didn't watch this game. Was Trubisky as bad as his stats indicated? I see he benefited from garbage time, as his YPA was 3.4 when I checked in the 3rd quarter, but he ended the game with 4.6 YPA.  :X

 
FF Ninja said:
I didn't watch this game. Was Trubisky as bad as his stats indicated? I see he benefited from garbage time, as his YPA was 3.4 when I checked in the 3rd quarter, but he ended the game with 4.6 YPA.  :X
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Much, much worse.   Consistently missed wide open receivers.  

And Matt Nagy thinks having Trubisky throw the ball 50 times is a recipe for victory???   Trubisky is a bust;  Ryan Pace will go to his grave saying "I shoulda taken Mahomes".    

 
FF Ninja said:
Watch out. I got a ton of flack in the Chicago thread last year for saying Pace shouldn't have pushed all his chips in on Trubisky. 
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I was hoping you were wrong. I am a little slow but agree with you now. He doesn't look like an NFL QB. Their offensive line has been brutal every game which doesn't help much.

I have been avoiding this thread because I thought Monty was going to be a monster this season. Everything I read about him in practice and some of the moves I saw in preseason led me to think this. I am more disappointed in his play than just about any recent draft pick. I didn't anticipate the line to be so bad as well as the awful play calling. I will be one of the first in line to start a fire Nagy thread if calls a game like he did yesterday. 

 
yoman said:
I was hoping you were wrong. I am a little slow but agree with you now. He doesn't look like an NFL QB. Their offensive line has been brutal every game which doesn't help much.

I have been avoiding this thread because I thought Monty was going to be a monster this season. Everything I read about him in practice and some of the moves I saw in preseason led me to think this. I am more disappointed in his play than just about any recent draft pick. I didn't anticipate the line to be so bad as well as the awful play calling. I will be one of the first in line to start a fire Nagy thread if calls a game like he did yesterday. 
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Well, my take wasn't that Trubisky was definitely bad without hope of improvement or anything like that. I'm not a scout. I just thought it was premature to crown him as the franchise QB you can build around. It's kind of like gambling at the casino. You play the odds. If you hit on 18 with the dealer showing a 7, you're an idiot even if you luckily get a 3. Pace should have waited a year before pushing all his chips in to make sure Trubisky was the truth. It just wasn't the right move at the time and it looks even worse now that Trubisky (and/or Nagy) is still struggling a year and a half later. 

I also generally don't like the practice of trading premium draft picks for an impending FA just to sign the player to a massive contract. I get it when you're in a championship window, but this team didn't need to rush things. Mack wasn't the piece that pushed that team from playoff caliber to championship caliber. If you want Mack, keep your 1st and sign him as a FA next year after you know more about Trubisky. Anyway, I digress...

As for Montgomery, I wouldn't lose hope yet. This offense is straight up garbage. You can't run the ball when defenses are daring you to pass. Maybe Nagy can work on the fly and mend this offense. I'm not confident, but it could happen. Hey, at least Allen Robinson is looking awesome. No idea how he is doing it in this offense, though.

 
And just think: Nagy was the Coach of the Year last season. :lol:  

The talent is there with Montgomery, but with a bad QB and a coach who is a terrible play caller, his outlook for the immediate future can be summed up in one word: ugly. 

 
Well I still don't know what we have in Montgomery because the OL, QB, and playcalling have been so unbelievably poor around him. I guess it doesn't matter because the situation couldn't be worse, regardless of whether he has any talent or not.

I still don't fault Pace for making the move to draft Trubisky. But I'm prepared to say he is a bust. I don't hate the process, though, and I said it at the time. If he was their guy at the top of their board, I like the move. Now the real magic trick, to own the idea Trubisky is a bust and move forward. Nagy probably won't go anywhere for awhile so that isn't going to help. This team is in shambles. 

Monty was basically a desperation start this weekend anyway but my God, man. Give him the ball.

 
FF Ninja said:
Well, my take wasn't that Trubisky was definitely bad without hope of improvement or anything like that. I'm not a scout. I just thought it was premature to crown him as the franchise QB you can build around. It's kind of like gambling at the casino. You play the odds. If you hit on 18 with the dealer showing a 7, you're an idiot even if you luckily get a 3. Pace should have waited a year before pushing all his chips in to make sure Trubisky was the truth. It just wasn't the right move at the time and it looks even worse now that Trubisky (and/or Nagy) is still struggling a year and a half later. 

I also generally don't like the practice of trading premium draft picks for an impending FA just to sign the player to a massive contract. I get it when you're in a championship window, but this team didn't need to rush things. Mack wasn't the piece that pushed that team from playoff caliber to championship caliber. If you want Mack, keep your 1st and sign him as a FA next year after you know more about Trubisky. Anyway, I digress...

As for Montgomery, I wouldn't lose hope yet. This offense is straight up garbage. You can't run the ball when defenses are daring you to pass. Maybe Nagy can work on the fly and mend this offense. I'm not confident, but it could happen. Hey, at least Allen Robinson is looking awesome. No idea how he is doing it in this offense, though.
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Mack clearly made the defense championship caliber. The offense should reasonably have been expected to take some steps forward, but instead it's gone the other direction.

 
dropped DM two weeks ago. That dog won't hunt. Nagy is probably on the 'coaches who could get fired' list .afterall, he gave that defense to Chucky Pagano, who has done nothing but turn them in to a swiss cheese unit. take away the garbage pts, the Bears scored just 10 pts against N.O. so dating back to week 8 of LAST season, Bears avg about 17 ppg. bad play calling, bad coaching, bad players. this team is imploding. probably a 5-11 or 4-12 team.at some point, they'll quit , or they already have. the offense is just such a lackluster product right now, it's doubtful anything special happens with Monty. 

 
davearm said:
Mack clearly made the defense championship caliber. The offense should reasonably have been expected to take some steps forward, but instead it's gone the other direction.
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I agree with the first part, but expecting the 2018 offense to be championship caliber was foolishly optimistic. If I was Pace, I'd have hung onto those draft picks and tried to sign Mack as a FA in 2019 or, if someone else traded for him and signed him long-term, use that money elsewhere. I thought 2019 was the earliest this offense might be ready to make a push, so I didn't see any need to force the issue in 2018.

As an aside, I read an article citing that the 2018 Bears were the healthiest team in the league (something about games missed by starters) which attributed to some of their overachieving last season.

 
Still 4 minutes left in the game.

David Montgomery currently has 24 rushing attempts 133 yards 1 TD 4 receptions 12 yards.

Not bad for a bust.

 
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