Fantasy Football - Footballguys Forums
This is a sample guest message. Register a free account today to become a member! Once signed in, you'll be able to participate on this site by adding your own topics and posts, as well as connect with other members through your own private inbox!
RB Derrick Henry, BAL (2 Viewers)
- Thread starter Faust
- Start date
FreeBaGeL
Footballguy
If shedding a bunch of tacklers and making like 6 cutbacks to shake guys out of their shoes is downfield blocking, then sure.
I don't own Murray anywhere and am not a believer in him but that was one of the best runs of this season from any player. It was certainly not a broken play or just some good blocking. It was a 1 yard run that he turned into a 10 yard run that he then turned into a 40 yard run that he then somehow despite having nowhere to go turned into a 75 yard TD.
Don't Noonan
Footballguy
Henry is a guy I really want on my fantasy team. He has the potential to win you your league. I believe the Titans have one of the best offenses in the NFL. We'll see if Murray can hold up all year.
bluesclues
Footballguy
DeMarco Murray signed a 4 year, $25,250,000 contract with the Tennessee Titans, including $12,500,000 guaranteed, and an average annual salary of $6,312,500. In 2017, Murray will earn a base salary of $6,250,000 and a incentive bonus of $700,000, while carrying a cap hit of $6,950,000 and a dead cap value of $6,250,000.
Sarlakticacid
Footballguy
Watch it again and tell me how many tackles he breaks. I don't see your last statement there either, He hit the jets to get past the LB then cuts up the field to find his blockers.
One of the best team TDs i have seen in a while
http://www.nfl.com/gamecenter/2017092410/2017/REG3/seahawks@titans#menu=gameinfo|contentId%3A0ap3000000850769&tab=analyze
msommer
Footballguy
Thanks for the additional details. The point re cap ramifications 2018 and beyond stands
LionOfGosforth
Footballguy
Feels like Groundhog Day, like last year holding onto this guy through weeks of nothing much in the hope he gets a start or significant work. Hoping Tenn blow a team out so he can take over the majority of second half touches, well, who is Nostradamus and can predict when that will happen? Happened against Jacksonville week 2 (pretty unlikely at the time given how highly rated their DEF is) and not since, they just keep giving old and mostly ineffective Murray most of the work. Droppable or still a hold in redraft? I feel like the week I drop is the week Murray breaks down but BYEs and injuries always bite around this time.
Biabreakable
Footballguy
It could work out for you.I am pretty sure someone snatches up Henry though and you won't be getting him back.
CentralPA
Footballguy
Oh my one league mate already tried to get him but he's protected until next week's waivers. He is good as gone. Dumb move on my part but oh well.Biabreakable said:
I am pretty sure someone snatches up Henry though and you won't be getting him back.
I think we're getting closer to a switch. We've done the reaction to preseason and all that, but I think this one is just what we all predicted when he was a rookie. DeMarco slowing down, Henry getting the nod.
I've been saying since week one that he has this pause that's bugging me. Six weeks later (and really only one long run making his stats look decent-not one of the best but decent)
DeMarco said he met with Mularkey and Crooms(RB Coach) to discuss him "not hitting it."
Mularkey said runners left yards on the field but didn't say anything more or get pressed on that comment.
My GUESS is that if DeMarco doesn't "hit it" they're going to make a change soon. How many weeks does he get? I don't know
I'm not saying trade for Henry or anything. Don't leap here. I just think that if we could have said ways that coaches speak and things that happen before a "passing of the torch" that those things are beginning. If Murray does well Monday, that will shut this down. If he doesn't, it'll be hmmmm
I've been saying since week one that he has this pause that's bugging me. Six weeks later (and really only one long run making his stats look decent-not one of the best but decent)
DeMarco said he met with Mularkey and Crooms(RB Coach) to discuss him "not hitting it."
Mularkey said runners left yards on the field but didn't say anything more or get pressed on that comment.
My GUESS is that if DeMarco doesn't "hit it" they're going to make a change soon. How many weeks does he get? I don't know
I'm not saying trade for Henry or anything. Don't leap here. I just think that if we could have said ways that coaches speak and things that happen before a "passing of the torch" that those things are beginning. If Murray does well Monday, that will shut this down. If he doesn't, it'll be hmmmm
Bojang0301
Omar4Heisman
Mularkey is regressing to his mean as a mediocre head coach. When push comes to shove he’ll pick Henry to run his offense or he probably will be putting himself on the hot seat.
Biabreakable
Footballguy
Sarlakticacid
Footballguy
Nice burst to get past the D and turn the corner
ConnSKINS26
Footballguy
This guy is going to win people championships, right? It feels like we're watching Murray slowly fall apart before our eyes
Bojang0301
Omar4Heisman
Torn on what to think. Now could be a nice time to move him if Mularkey is just going to revert to Murray. I don’t know why they wouldn’t just use Murray as a satellite back. He can catch and get some nice movement still but Murray is a monster that I can’t imagine is fun to play against. I also worry that this performance is a bit flukey because of the junk time TD. He’s the kind of player that maddens you because you sit patiently knowing he can win you your league, yet, his situation is always as clear as mud.
Yes, his time is coming and this is an ascending offenseUgh...I feel sick. Those of you that still have him keep a hold of him. He looks like he's going to be a good one.
Excuse me while I go slam my head in a car door
Team Smokin'
Footballguy
Tremblay isn't giving Henry any love this week in his early projections. He's got Murray way ahead in touches and points.
Well, we shall see...
Well, we shall see...
I think for projections, FBG goes with history and "statistical logic." That makes total sense as far as trends and patterns.
There wasn't an announcement that it would be Henry starting.
This is also my guess as to what happened too. I heard Murray say he was terrible and had to get off his leg on the Westwood One radio network interview because I didn't close a tab right away. I usually do. Me and however many other radio listeners still "there" heard it. Reporters wouldn't listen and their friends would be on local radio. They would have been heading down to Mularkey's post game presser. After the presser, they can go in the locker room, but injured players get treatment and are somewhat unavailable to reporters for the time being. If they knew Murray said that, they'd probably have asked or waited a bit til his treatment was finished. During the post game presser, Mularkey said only that Morgan was injured. He didn't mention Murray.
I strongly guess Murray sits this week. The Browns and the bye offer two weeks rest at the perfect time for him.
Murray is one of the most useful backs in football and they've tried to have Henry learn to be like him. Last year, Kendall Wright was out for the first 3-4 weeks. On third down, Murray went to the slot and led the Titans in receiving. He regularly picks up blockers well. He and Henry have lined up as 3rd TE, FB, slot, and wide. If Henry has a great game against the Browns and they come back from the bye with Henry as the lead back, do NOT expect Murray to just get 10 yards and a hug. They'll use him as a mismatch and move him all over the field. He will get work. It could be best for both of them.
Team Smokin'
Footballguy
Nice observations and analysis, Bri. Murray is too valuable when healthy, and will play a significant role. Henry, the apprentice learning the NFL ropes, and he's a monster RB very capable. I'm trying to get a read to see if Henry is actually a start in the FLEX or heaven forbid as a RB #2. Perhaps for this coming week. I wonder about beyond...Bri said:
TheDirtyWord
Footballguy
Last two weeks, TEN saw JAX's new stud RB toy rip off 90 & 75 yard TD runs. Now they have one of their own. Murray is great in the passing game. He's not just an outlet, but a weapon. However, as Mariota become more comfortable with other options like Decker/Davis, Murray's presence in the passing game (at Henry's expense) may decline 5-7 snaps/game. He also looked far from 100%. It's not like he's sharing snaps with Paul Perkins.
They're a great combo, but I could see a volume swappage between the two.
They're a great combo, but I could see a volume swappage between the two.
Thank you. I think you(and FF owners) will start Henry this week. There will probably be injury updates on Murray and you'll feel that whether Murray plays or not, why push him against the Browns. Once they get a lead, it'll be Yulee Express time. We'll see how it plays out, but the Browns do offer a certain predictability.
Biabreakable
Footballguy
Derrick Henry 40 offensive snaps (57%) 19 rushing attempts 131 yards (6.9 ypc) 1 TD 1 target 1 reception 14 yards
DeMarco Murray 38 offensive snaps (54%) 12 rushing attempts 40 yards (3.3 ypc) 1 TD 4 targets 4 receptions 47 yards
Before the 72 yard run to close out the game Murray was definitely used as the main RB still. Murray had his TD early in the 4th quarter giving the Titans the lead for the first time in the game. Henry got action to close out the game once the Titans did have a lead.
So nothing really changed as far as the pattern of their usage. Henry just came up big at the end of the game.
DeMarco Murray 38 offensive snaps (54%) 12 rushing attempts 40 yards (3.3 ypc) 1 TD 4 targets 4 receptions 47 yards
Before the 72 yard run to close out the game Murray was definitely used as the main RB still. Murray had his TD early in the 4th quarter giving the Titans the lead for the first time in the game. Henry got action to close out the game once the Titans did have a lead.
So nothing really changed as far as the pattern of their usage. Henry just came up big at the end of the game.
Chaka
Footballguy
It was fun to watch and I love that I have him on my team but I was wondering what the heck he was doing. I may have missed something as I was at a family dinner, but was there another reason for him not to take the knee? Was it the excitement of a young player or was it possibly a demonstration of a questionable football IQ?Biabreakable said:
Last edited by a moderator:
msommer
Footballguy
It didn't look like an audible call out of the victory formation so the call came from the coaches, no?
Sticking it to IND?
Biabreakable
Footballguy
They had 3rd down and 5 to go with a little over a minute left. So they ran with Henry trying to get the first down to close out the game. If they had taken a knee they would have had to punt the ball away and the Colts would have had 20 seconds or so for a last gasp effort.
I was kind of exaggerating saying they could just take the knee although that likely would have worked out fine as well.
If it had been 2nd down instead of 3rd down then yes they could have just taken a knee, the Colts were out of time outs by then.
Biabreakable
Footballguy
If you watch the play you see all the Colts defenders crowding the middle of the formation.
Walker and Smith get a nice double team block on the defender to seal the lane and the guard pulling across gets a nice kick out block that Henry waits for then he is off to the races.
The Colts were definitely expecting a run straight up the middle based on how they lined up.
Henry does step very close to edge and might have gone out of bounds there. I don't think he did and the refs didn't call it that way, but it was close.
Chaka
Footballguy
That was my question. After he got the first down yardage isn't the smart play to go all Brian Westbrook and fall down? Juking and cut backs seemed very risky. Unless I am missing something that's bad coaching and bad football smarts by Henry. Great run to watch either way.
Biabreakable
Footballguy
He could have just went down and I suppose that would have been a smart thing to do.
Glad he didn't.
If he would have been called out of bounds then the coaches might not have liked that, but it still wouldn't have mattered as they could just take the knee at that point.
Chaka
Footballguy
Me too it increases his marketability to the Henry owner in my league. But, as you pointed out above, his game flow usage didn't change last night so his stand-alone value remains very hit or miss going forward.
he could have fallen down... the run tot he outside was a good call by the OC, perhaps they had tape showing the colts go all out to stuff the middle in obvious bleed the clock situations.... anyway, that run is increasing his trade value/appeal in redraft by 50 to 100% (my arbitrary guesstimate as moist only look at final stat lines)
Biabreakable
Footballguy
I wouldn't trade Henry to the Murray owner unless you got something really good in return.
I would listen to Bri in regards to his speculation about what Murray said and Henry possibly gets more playing time against the Browns so they can rest Murray if he is hurting.
Not that the Titans should look past the Browns or any NFL team. But that makes sense to rest Murray if he is dealing with soreness. Henry is pretty good.
TheDirtyWord
Footballguy
I'd disagree with you here.
Last night was the first time Henry out-snapped Murray all year - that includes Week 2 when Murray pretty much sat in the second half. And in the previous 2 games, Murray out-snapped Henry 72-to-29.
How this plays out moving forward is probably still TBD, but whereas I think Henry was seen as the clear back-up to Murray - spelling him when need be and being the guy they 'had to find snaps for'...I do think last night was a bit of a turning point 'a-ha' moment where the coaching staff has to really look at how they deploy their backfield moving forward. Good problem for them to have - first world NFL problem so to speak.
i guess i disagree, time and time again this staff has shown they prefer murray. i think as long as murray is active on gameday henry's share of the workload can be expected to be at best 50%... with a passing game edge to murray.
Biabreakable
Footballguy
Ok.
What I mean by the pattern of use being the same is that the Titans and Mularkey were already talking about Henry being the RB they will use in the 4 minute offense when they have a lead, and that is kind of what I saw happening here in this game. Henry only had like 13 carries for 40 yards at the point where Murray scored the TD early in the 4th quarter to give the Titans the lead.
But yes last week the Titans used Murray on 83% of the snaps while Henry only had 19%. The playing time was more evenly distributed than that and Henry did have over 10 opportunities prior to that, so they were using Henry more and they didn't have a lead yet.
In the 3 games prior to week 5 the snap counts are more even between Murray and Henry as well. The only weeks that Murray had significantly more playing time and opportunities was week one and week five. So what I meant is that a more even split in those other 3 games has stayed the same. With Murray getting slightly more than Henry.
Week one and week 5 look more like the outliers at this point (mostly Murray) as compared with the other 4 weeks.
For reference SSNDs spread sheet.
Last edited by a moderator:
TheDirtyWord
Footballguy
Remember though - Week 2 was when Murray first came up lame - not used much in 2nd half when Henry closed the snap gap.. And if you recall, it was actually a surprise that Murray suited up Week 3 - so it was not a surprise Henry shared the workload. And Week 4 was the HOU game where the whole team wet the bed.
So in those 3 games, I think there were some circumstances that caused the snap distribution to look more even, but I think the roles of lead dog and situational player were clear (Murray/Henry). And I think those roles might be shifting.
Biabreakable
Footballguy
I hope you are right. I have Henry not Murray.
I am just not seeing last nights game as an example of a changing of the guard here. I think Murray is still the starter and ahead of Henry based on how they were used in this game.
Circumstances, such as Murray being hurt and game flow certainly influence how the two players are being used as you mention.
I want to agree with you that this has changed, I just don't think last nights game gives us reason to think it will.
TheDirtyWord
Footballguy
I forget who is responsible for saying it, but it goes along the lines of 'whoever starts the game, it just means they're in for the first snap'.
But what we do know is that a month after first injuring his hamstring, Murray doesn't look right. We also know that after week 5, coaching staff realized they effed up related to involving Henry in the game.
NFL Is a week-to-week league so if Henry fumbles 4x against CLE, then the coaches are going to take that into account. But right now, Henry looks like the more dangerous, less compromised player and I suspect he'll get a chance to show what he can do with a majority workload against CLE this week leading up to the bye.
Biabreakable
Footballguy
I completely agree that who gets the start doesn't mean much at all compared to how the players are being used for the whole game. Getting the start or being the starter is often just symbolic, or even less than that, just who was on the field for the first snap of the game.
Recent examples of this would be Latavius Murray starting the last two weeks, but McKinnon playing more snaps and getting more opportunities than Murray. Technically Murray was the starter, but McKinnon is being used more and is the more effective player. Another recent example would be Montgomery getting the start over Aaron Jones, but only playing on 20% of the snaps. Plenty more examples than those which are just fresh in my mind.
If Murray isn't fully recovered from his hamstring as you say, and doesn't look himself in the games. That would be something influencing Henry getting more playing time wouldn't it?
Yet despite this, they had Murray still playing significantly more snaps than Henry in week 5. That tells me that they still favor Murray even if he isn't fully healthy. However do the Titans and Mularkey think that was a mistake? Murray did not play well but he did perform more efficiently than Henry did in that game, albeit with limited opportunity given to Henry that may have changed that.They were playing Cassel not Mariota and so perhaps that was part of why they wanted to have Murray play more in that game?
It would be a mistake I suppose if the playing time caused Murray to aggravate his injury. But they still used Murray a lot in the game last night, so what lesson did they learn from that?
Maybe you are right that it was a mistake on their part to do that, but I kind of doubt that Mularkey sees it that way based on what they have done.
I hope you and Bri are right that they use Henry more than Murray in the game against the Browns. If we get more information about Murray being hurt, as Bri brings up in his post about hearing Murray saying that he was hurting, then I would have more confidence in that possibility.
Recent examples of this would be Latavius Murray starting the last two weeks, but McKinnon playing more snaps and getting more opportunities than Murray. Technically Murray was the starter, but McKinnon is being used more and is the more effective player. Another recent example would be Montgomery getting the start over Aaron Jones, but only playing on 20% of the snaps. Plenty more examples than those which are just fresh in my mind.
If Murray isn't fully recovered from his hamstring as you say, and doesn't look himself in the games. That would be something influencing Henry getting more playing time wouldn't it?
Yet despite this, they had Murray still playing significantly more snaps than Henry in week 5. That tells me that they still favor Murray even if he isn't fully healthy. However do the Titans and Mularkey think that was a mistake? Murray did not play well but he did perform more efficiently than Henry did in that game, albeit with limited opportunity given to Henry that may have changed that.They were playing Cassel not Mariota and so perhaps that was part of why they wanted to have Murray play more in that game?
It would be a mistake I suppose if the playing time caused Murray to aggravate his injury. But they still used Murray a lot in the game last night, so what lesson did they learn from that?
Maybe you are right that it was a mistake on their part to do that, but I kind of doubt that Mularkey sees it that way based on what they have done.
I hope you and Bri are right that they use Henry more than Murray in the game against the Browns. If we get more information about Murray being hurt, as Bri brings up in his post about hearing Murray saying that he was hurting, then I would have more confidence in that possibility.
Last edited by a moderator:
