zamboni
Footballguy
No my main point is that 8 years of top tier production is very rare - not the fact that he can/will be replaced. But I know you know that.
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RB Derrick Henry, BAL (2 Viewers)
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Interseptopus
Footballguy
yes, 8 years is above average for an NFL RB. I think Henry can be one of those above average RBs. but you're right if nothing really develops in the next 2 or so years they will move on.
Chaka
Footballguy
Really impressive but man did his coach beat the hell out of him. Did anyone else even touch the ball?
Super King
Footballguy
There's an awesome article where the people wanted him to get 110 yards or so to break the all time record for a HS rusher. They were nervous he could pull it off in a state playoff game and then Henry ran for like 450 yards and 6 touchdowns. There's a great pic of him giving a ball to his grandma who raised him too. The fans were just berzerk. They were hopeful and nervous for him and he just exploded expectations. Ya can't help but wish you were there while reading the article, sounds like a great moment.
He got his rest at Alabama his first couple years. I had the same feeling but a little research showed this is pretty common for HS backs and their entry into college.
az_prof
Footballguy
Interesting. Murray doesn't have much to gain from saying this. To me, this rings true as an endorsement.
This article here is diagraming a 2016 play the Titans used. https://www.musiccitymiracles.com/2018/7/9/17548898/derrick-henry-and-the-outside-zone-titans
(MCM used to be a real good Titans site and now is usually 2-3 paragraphs of regurgitated stuff. This guy, though, he's a gem that returned and I'm pretty happy about it. This (tada noise) is what MCM used to offer...impressive stuff.)
Why 2016? I can't answer for him but as I've said 2017's offense was so "ya gotta be kidding me" badly overthought, that I completely understand going with 2016.
I told you the Titans used a hybrid system of power run plays and zone blocking plays, so LaFleur's zone blocking wasn't going to be the enormous change some non-Titans writers had predicted. Remember when I told ya that the Titans players said many of the new offensive plays were the same just with new names? Well, here's the Rams most common rush play run by the Titans in 2016.
He calls Henry a home-run hitter trapped in a power back's body. I really like that description.
@Biabreakable tagging you, because I know you'll appreciate this article
(MCM used to be a real good Titans site and now is usually 2-3 paragraphs of regurgitated stuff. This guy, though, he's a gem that returned and I'm pretty happy about it. This (tada noise) is what MCM used to offer...impressive stuff.)
Why 2016? I can't answer for him but as I've said 2017's offense was so "ya gotta be kidding me" badly overthought, that I completely understand going with 2016.
I told you the Titans used a hybrid system of power run plays and zone blocking plays, so LaFleur's zone blocking wasn't going to be the enormous change some non-Titans writers had predicted. Remember when I told ya that the Titans players said many of the new offensive plays were the same just with new names? Well, here's the Rams most common rush play run by the Titans in 2016.
He calls Henry a home-run hitter trapped in a power back's body. I really like that description.
@Biabreakable tagging you, because I know you'll appreciate this article
Biabreakable
Footballguy
Since the author is talking about blocking scheme and technique, I don't think it matters too much if he is calling back to 2016 or however far back in the past. The concepts are still the same.
It might actually be helpful to talk about what Alabama ran for their staple runs that Henry was successful on. I could be wrong, but I don't think it was a lot of outside zone. The outside zone may fit Dion Lewis a bit better than it does Henry, because Lewis is more likely to be able to make the cut back to the inside when needed then Henry is.
I wish the author would elaborate further on what Henrys strengths are that fit this type of blocking, as well as the weaknesses.
Who knows what Henry ran for the most part for Alabama? I know most of Henrys good runs were to outside the tackles, but I am not sure what the most common blocking scheme was. It was blocked well though, and if it was outside zone, I don't think Henry cut those runs back to the inside that much from watching him.
Biabreakable
Footballguy
I did a bit of reading about it and it sounds like Lane Kiffen ran more ZBS with Alabama in 2015 (with Henry as the primary RB) than anything else. However it was the split zone borrowed from Urban Meyer with RPO built into the scheme.
Here is an article discussing the blocking concepts that Alabama uses. In reference to the outside zone:
Here is an article discussing the blocking concepts that Alabama uses. In reference to the outside zone:
http://dailysnark.com/pictures-of-titans-rbs-derrick-henry-dion-lewis-standing-next-to-each-other-are-hilarious/
A MUST see for people that are so sure Lewis is gonna have his number called more often
A MUST see for people that are so sure Lewis is gonna have his number called more often
Last edited by a moderator:
Stuart Ullman
Footballguy
Henry is scary.
Stuart Ullman
Footballguy
Imagine you're a defensive back caught on the corner with this guy. LMAO
Titans OL coach and OC were quoted saying that Henry is the feature back.
The things I'm hearing is this is the first year he looks real good in shorts. With his power game and this almost two hand touch practice, he never really stood out in shorts. It was more wait til the pads come on. Not this year. He's learning how to not get touched period and reporters are figuring this is a considerable improvement to his game. One wondered if, at his size, he never wholly avoided contact from defenders in the open field but figured a stiff arm or putting his shoulder down would suffice.
I only have one reporter friend still on the Lewis bandwagon. He thinks that although Lewis has less snaps each day, he does better with them. Also that we always say don't judge in shorts so the others are premature.
The things I'm hearing is this is the first year he looks real good in shorts. With his power game and this almost two hand touch practice, he never really stood out in shorts. It was more wait til the pads come on. Not this year. He's learning how to not get touched period and reporters are figuring this is a considerable improvement to his game. One wondered if, at his size, he never wholly avoided contact from defenders in the open field but figured a stiff arm or putting his shoulder down would suffice.
I only have one reporter friend still on the Lewis bandwagon. He thinks that although Lewis has less snaps each day, he does better with them. Also that we always say don't judge in shorts so the others are premature.
Dr. Octopus
Footballguy
What system would Lewis help install?
Mike Vrbel played for the Patriots (long before Lewis was there) but he's only coached as a linebackers coach with OSU and as a linebackers coach and then DC with Houston. OC Matt LaFleur came from the Rams and has no connection with Dion Lewis either.
bostonfred
Footballguy
Some basic stuff that different teams do differently
How to behave as a professional
How to prepare for frequently changing game plans
How to interact with the media
He's also a swiss army knife - he is capable of being a third down back or change of pace, but could also take over feature duties if needed.
I just don't believe they'll use him as a feature back if Henry is healthy and playing well.
bostonfred
Footballguy
Dr. Octopus
Footballguy
I don't believe the bolded either - but I do think Lewis will have a pretty decent sized role as well.
I guess the point I took issue with is that Lewis is not really a "a good player from his [Vrbel's] old team who can help him install his system". That statement was either disingenuously offered to support a player you have consistently championed or unintentionally misleading.
I think Murray's departure is more beneficial to Henry's production than Lewis's addition is a threat to it - so I can agree with you on that. I think both players offer something for fantasy owners though.
bostonfred
Footballguy
I don't think they'll use him like a lot of receivers who move to the slot - he's the size of a tight end with as good or better combine metrics than gronk and kelce. And he's averaged over 10 yards a catch in 2016, 2017 and in the 2017 post season, with some memorable big catches.
The goal should be to get him the ball with a head of steam in space as much as possible. That's what the outside zone running is intended to do, and what they can do by using him more as a receiver. Let the d backs deal with him.
bostonfred
Footballguy
No, I think the titans paid a premium to get Patriots players this year including Butler and Dion because it's easier for a head coach to build a team with players who understand what they want. There's nothing disingenuous or misleading about that. I think real people go to their real jobs and are more comfortable when they are working with people who understand what they want.
I think the confusion is on your end.
Dr. Octopus
Footballguy
Sorry I didn't mean that to sound as accusatory as it did. I get what you're saying but generally when you say a new HC is bringing in guys to teach his system it's players that actually played for him and know his system already. That's not really the case here.
If you are saying he wants guys that do things "the Patriots way" - that is fair.
Chaka
Footballguy
I think the Titans have scary potential this season. Young talented QB, maybe never "elite" (whatever that means) but certainly good enough to lead a team to a championship.
A top 5 offensive line who have played together in the same spots for three seasons (assuming a healthy return of Conklin without him they are middle of the pack at best).
IMO the scariest RB tandem in the league. They are both three down players (Henry is an asset in the passing game, dude can catch) but with entirely different skill sets. These two, used properly, have the ability to frustrate and downright terrify defenses. Who wants to tackle Henry in the fourth quarter after Lewis has been breaking their ankles for the first three? Or who is gonna catch Lewis after Henry has beaten them into submission all day?
The WRs are a bit of a question mark but Walker is as good of a TE outside anyone named Gronk/Kelce (maybe Ertz too), and Matthews is a good WR2 at least. But it all hinges on the development of Corey Davis. If he proves to be what they thought he was when the used the #5 pick on him then I see a legitimate SB contender I'm Tennessee. Even if he is just an 800&8 guy they are a playoff team with more than a puncher's chance.
A top 5 offensive line who have played together in the same spots for three seasons (assuming a healthy return of Conklin without him they are middle of the pack at best).
IMO the scariest RB tandem in the league. They are both three down players (Henry is an asset in the passing game, dude can catch) but with entirely different skill sets. These two, used properly, have the ability to frustrate and downright terrify defenses. Who wants to tackle Henry in the fourth quarter after Lewis has been breaking their ankles for the first three? Or who is gonna catch Lewis after Henry has beaten them into submission all day?
The WRs are a bit of a question mark but Walker is as good of a TE outside anyone named Gronk/Kelce (maybe Ertz too), and Matthews is a good WR2 at least. But it all hinges on the development of Corey Davis. If he proves to be what they thought he was when the used the #5 pick on him then I see a legitimate SB contender I'm Tennessee. Even if he is just an 800&8 guy they are a playoff team with more than a puncher's chance.
bostonfred
Footballguy
Chaka
Footballguy
Thanks. I had read that but am hoping Bri has a tidbit or two that we may not know about.
msommer
Footballguy
Chaka
Footballguy
Elevencents
Footballguy
Really hope they showcase him this year. I’m excited to see what he can do as the feature back. And that’s even from a fan standpoint not just as a fantasy owner.
Monday was to be the first full contact day but Vrabel made a rule no tackling. He also said he is going to spring that on them throughout the summer. If he thinks players are sore it's ideal but it could just be when he goes with his gut. He's trying to use his experience to go easier on their bodies some. Monday was just to get them ready and be sure they were still using good technique with some contact.
Tuesday was a day off
Rashaan used to have to tackle Henry at Alabama and credits doing so as excellent training but his speed comes from chasing horses and strength from baling hay. Everyone is so anxious to see Rashaan versus Henry and hopefully, it's today. Rashaan had a veteran's day off with Orakpo and a few others on Monday so he should be all set. After that matchup, surely it'll focus on Rashaan versus Lewis next. Unless another no tackle day, this should be what we've all been waiting for
Tuesday was a day off
Rashaan used to have to tackle Henry at Alabama and credits doing so as excellent training but his speed comes from chasing horses and strength from baling hay. Everyone is so anxious to see Rashaan versus Henry and hopefully, it's today. Rashaan had a veteran's day off with Orakpo and a few others on Monday so he should be all set. After that matchup, surely it'll focus on Rashaan versus Lewis next. Unless another no tackle day, this should be what we've all been waiting for
Henry and Lewis pretty much identical in this drill
https://twitter.com/lifesyourcup/status/1025561287412015104
https://twitter.com/lifesyourcup/status/1025561287412015104
Elevencents
Footballguy
Snorkelson
Footballguy
Love how henry “gets skinny” to get through the gate. He literally has to duck. I don’t own henry anywhere but I like him and hope Tennessee gets some love from the networks so I can see him. Exciting young team. A qb that has thrown a td pass to himself, who can say that?
Ghost Rider
Footballguy
Barring injury, I will be shocked if Henry isn't a top 10 RB. Watching highlights of him is just a reminder of good he is. Lewis will get some touches, obviously, but Henry will get the lion's share of touches, and with his ability to break big plays, he should pile up the yards and score a bunch. I love his value.
barackdhouse
Footballguy
I only own him in one spot. Drafted him at 1.07 and have been patiently waiting for him to be the #1. As I see it, Lewis is a starting caliber RB that they *had* to get, because who else were they going to get? A couple guys, I suppose, but they chose Lewis. I like Lewis and expect a good year from him. Everybody needs more than one quality RB, though. I see him as a complementary piece to Henry as the main guy.
When he came out, I remember a couple people arguing that Henry was the most dominant/productive RB in high school football history, college football history, and that he would excel in the NFL.
He has certainly done well so far, in limited action. If Mariota and Davis take a step forward this year, this Titans offense could score a lot of points. I expect Lewis to be a part of that, but I expect Henry to be the man. He could be undervalued right now.
When he came out, I remember a couple people arguing that Henry was the most dominant/productive RB in high school football history, college football history, and that he would excel in the NFL.
He has certainly done well so far, in limited action. If Mariota and Davis take a step forward this year, this Titans offense could score a lot of points. I expect Lewis to be a part of that, but I expect Henry to be the man. He could be undervalued right now.
Lewis is too straight up N down. That wasn't allowed by Croom (often called Crooms) and he'd have had to do it again. If the ball is in your hand, your shoulder goes down...something like that.zeeshan2 said:
Vrabel is ridiculous with all his press rules. We know very little of the new staff live. I appreciated all the tiny details Croom made the backs do. I genuinely believe he made them better. Barry was probably better and we just don't know because he was Barry. I thought Ahman Green looked like the perfect student, showing perfect technique on almost every play and suddenly getting like 1700 yards. Croom fixed Murray right up after Philly.
There are enough videos on youtube of Croom. I don't know proper technique but I know if I search for him I'm gonna find it. Young players should watch those videos to learn the position.
Croom had a super interview once about the mindset of RBs he received and that he asks his head coach and GM every year for a coachable player. There are a lot of stud college RBs that think they know the game and are hot "stuff" and not eager to learn the details. He said something like "I don't ask for anything all year, but once and that's for a coachable player. If you only ask for one thing per year, you usually get it." IMO it was the best interview ever to explain a player's transition to the NFL. I (or anyone that watched) might not be able to scout and all that but I could probably sit in on draft pick interviews and say "No" to a slew of them. He just had such good points about where your mind has to be to play a game that is significantly more difficult than anything they've ever played.
Maurice Carthon was an excellent RB coach too. He got promoted to OC and assistant head coach and then poof just gone from the NFL scene. I never understood what happened to him. Parcells and BB used to praise him and the same attention to detail.
I was upset Vrabel didn't retain him. Over the years, I've heard lots of coaches compliment Croom including Belichick. It was like Grimm to me. If you have a prob with a great position coach then maybe you shouldn't be a head coach but, of course that's just the bitterness talking when the coach first gets fired or not retained.
A great coach can make ya think that it's only the little things that matter- forget talent and all that stuff- if you do XYZ you'll be successful. Croom was that guy. I'd like to think I'm better at evaluating RBs for FF having watched Croom videos. Truth is I'm probably the same as everyone but....I'd like to think so
The free agent market was weak for franchise backs but very strong for 3rd down back types. Some people try to twist and almost remake the climate. The market is what it is or what it was
Travis May@FF_TravisM
Final 1st team snap RB tally in my five completely charted practices:
Dion Lewis 110
Derrick Henry 95
Lewis had significantly more reps in 11 personnel. But Henry got most 12 reps and led nearly every cycle of reps at every practice. #Titans #TitansCamp
6:38 PM - Aug 7, 2018
Final 1st team snap RB tally in my five completely charted practices:
Dion Lewis 110
Derrick Henry 95
Lewis had significantly more reps in 11 personnel. But Henry got most 12 reps and led nearly every cycle of reps at every practice. #Titans #TitansCamp
6:38 PM - Aug 7, 2018
Alex P Keaton
Footballguy
LaFleur was asked about Henry's size and said, "If he gets to his cut, he can fall forward for seven, eight yards."
He was asked if Henry is the starter and said they haven't named starters and won't til week one. He did say he has led every drill since the first day and he has done even better than expected
He was asked if Henry is the starter and said they haven't named starters and won't til week one. He did say he has led every drill since the first day and he has done even better than expected
Yep, always first. I think the Lewis vs Henry debate is about answered now. Henry is the starter. One week left in camp
I'm comfy now though with Henry as the starter. There's only one week left and he is first in drills and in games
