RB Ezekiel Elliott, DAL (4 Viewers)

[bostonfred]

He does have leverage IF the Cowboys start out poorly against weaker opponents. Whether it is due to Zeke being out or not, there will be tremendous pressure on Jones to sign him at Zeke's asking price lest the season slip away.

If the Cowboys go 3-0 and Pollard looks like a good replacement, then any leverage, real or perceived that Zeke had goes to virtually zero.

Remember that Jerry did cave to Emmitt when the Cowboys started out 0-2 without him. And that Cowboy team was a defending Super Bowl Champ.

This is backwards, but everyone keeps saying it.

Deadline make deals. 

Right now zeke has very little leverage, because the cowboys don't see week 1 as a critical deadline.  They aren't going to say that out loud, but we all know that they can beat bad teams without him.  So they'll make legitimate offers but they're not under pressure to completely cave.  

But if they win 3 easy games with Pollard, sure, they'll say that they're under less pressure, but things get real in week 4. And maybe they're willing to gamble with a game instead of going all out to get a deal done specifically in week 4. But they'll also be thinking, hey, we survived this initial hit but we can really make a run, it's time to stop screwing around.  

At that point, each week means more to the cowboys than it does to him.  One loss in the NFL is the difference between a first round bye or a wild card spot, or a playoff spot vs staying home. 

If zeke is willing to sit out while they offer him almost Gurley money, then one more missed game check doesn't compare.  

Now let's play it out if the cowboys lose one of those first 3 games.  Now the fan base is getting mad. Jerry knows this can go bad quickly, especially if they lose a winnable game week 1. 

If you're Zeke and you know that, then you're setting the bar very high and rejecting good offers right now because you know this may linger.  There's no reason to come down from your goal of setting the market if you expect them to be under even more pressure tomorrow. 

If the cowboys were willing to wait until Zeke risks losing a year, that would be different.  Running backs don't get many years.  But right now this is just the preamble, and week 3 is when the pressure on the cowboys will be at its highest.  

 

[iamkoza]

if im reading his contract details correctly... his base salary is 4mil with the signing bonus prorated for this season. next year his base salary is 9mil

so to do the 1 game a year to hit free agency in 2021 he'd have to forgoe $13M and possibly risk losing $4M of his alreayd earned signing bonus? in the hopes he can earn the $45M guarenteed Gurley got?

 

[stlrams]

Yeah, another great comp.  If you think Zeke and Gordon's situations, and more importantly, leverage to get a new deal, are remotely comparable we'll just agree to disagree.  There's a far greater chance than not that Gordon fails to get the new deal he's seeking and thus, holds out into the regular season.  But I'll guarantee you this; he'll report by the deadline by which he needs to in order for this year to accrue and lead him into free agency. 

So I have you drafting Zeke in the 1st then Gordon in the 2nd.  Lets see how this plays out for you...

 

[STEADYMOBBIN 22]

Deadline make deals. 

Agree with all but didn't want to quote the whole thing for brevity. The "Deadlines make deal" is so true and especially with the Cowboys who almost always wait until the last minute to sign.  Literally my only concern is the relationship souring. Don't get me wrong, Im also down to trade him, but the longer he holds out the more animosity the builds.

I think a lot of people underestimate how this impacts his teammates. They all love Zeke now and say the right things: they support Zeke and the whole, "Zeke has to do whats best for his family and himself" line. Thats all cool and all now. If the Cowboys do start to struggle and his holdout starts to impact their livelihood they will start to turn. If it gets ugly the players will turn on him just like the Steelers did Bell. 

If you are there you are part of the team. Once the season starts and youre not there, you no longer matter

 

[STEADYMOBBIN 22]

So I have you drafting Zeke in the 1st then Gordon in the 2nd.  Lets see how this plays out for you...

I didn't see him type that anywhere in this thread. 

 

[Thunderlips]

His gamble is that the team will suck without him, Pollard won't be adequate and Jones will be willing to lose face by giving in.  

In a "next man up" sport.....Meh to his chances.  

 

[STEADYMOBBIN 22]

His gamble is that the team will suck without him, Pollard won't be adequate and Jones will be willing to lose face by giving in.  

In a "next man up" sport.....Meh to his chances.  

Alfred Morris isn’t a complete bum either. He’s not Zeke and probably not as good as Pollard at this point but he is a multiple 1,000 yard rusher. “The Butler” doesn’t fumble and averaged 4.8 yards behind a mostly depleted offensive line and generic play calling. 

The super sleeper here is the FB, Olawale. He’s not only the fastest RB on the squad, he’s one of the fastest players on the entire team. 

 

[SayWhat?]

So I have you drafting Zeke in the 1st then Gordon in the 2nd.  Lets see how this plays out for you...

You either didn't read my post regarding Gordon, or are failing to comprehend.  Either way, I believe your position regarding Zeke is well known and will be proven (at least as of the timing of when he signs his new deal) to be a poor one.

 

[Faust]

Jones on impasse: 'Fresh' Zeke for playoffs is OK

 

[Faust]

David Helman @HelmanDC

Jerry Jones is always reliable for a sound bite at this luncheon.

Jerry jokes to the crowd that the Cowboys are “missing one, but we’ll have him on the field. And I’m not joking.”

David Helman @HelmanDC

All jokes aside, Jerry Jones reiterates after the luncheon that there’s been no movement with Zeke or his camp. He hasn’t spoken with Zeke and doesn’t have any plans to in the next 24 hours.

 

[Judge Smails]

Originally I was all over him at #2 if he signs.  Now I'm probably off him entirely.  Fortunately we don't draft until opening day so I'll know.  My fear is any missed games, slow start as he gets conditioned, etc.  Really comes down to value reg season vs playoffs.  2 schools of thought - if you think he's matchup proof with that line then maybe you go for him anyway.  But real playoffs and our playoffs are different.  He's got Bears, Rams, Eagles in our playoffs.  That alone might be enough to shake me from drafting at 2 (non PPR).  On the flip side I can run through holes from the Cowboy line and their game scripts will be great all year.

 

[stlrams]

You either didn't read my post regarding Gordon, or are failing to comprehend.  Either way, I believe your position regarding Zeke is well known and will be proven (at least as of the timing of when he signs his new deal) to be a poor one.

My league draft is next Wednesday so if Zeke signs before then I would only put him down for 1 missed game. 

 

[tonydead]

I disagree. There's at least a chance that the plan from the moment they drafted him was to ride him into the ground for 5 years and then part ways. I think that's pretty smart actually, certainly smarter than giving him a huge extension and then limiting his touches IMO.

Sound like Jerry Jones disagrees with you.  

"A fresh Zeke at the end of the year would be great,”

"We want Zeke when we get to the playoffs,”  “We want Zeke when we're in the dog days of this season."

Ridding Pollard through the cupcake schedule in the first part of the season might not be such a bad idea. 

I still think he reports soon tho.

I listen to all the stuff coming out of the Star.  The reason for drafting Pollard is so they don't wear out Zeke.  Not only is it a horrible idea for the organization to ride a RB into the ground and then get rid of him, it's a ####ty way to treat people.

 

[kittenmittens]

Has there been a definitive answer anywhere regarding when he has to show up to accrue the league year?  Was it August 6th or whatever? Is it by week 8?  Can he skip the entire season somehow? 

 

[Dr. Octopus]

Same here, I drafted Zeke but I also drafted Cook, D. Johnson and Mixon. So I’m set no matter what he does.

Tex

You've posted this twice now - how is that possible?

 

[tonydead]

He does have leverage IF the Cowboys start out poorly against weaker opponents. Whether it is due to Zeke being out or not, there will be tremendous pressure on Jones to sign him at Zeke's asking price lest the season slip away.

If the Cowboys go 3-0 and Pollard looks like a good replacement, then any leverage, real or perceived that Zeke had goes to virtually zero.

Remember that Jerry did cave to Emmitt when the Cowboys started out 0-2 without him. And that Cowboy team was a defending Super Bowl Champ.

Emmitt was in free agency, like Bell was.  Zeke has two years left on his contract - he is required to play games for that contract to expire.  

Don't compare my situation in 1993 to holdouts of Ezekiel Elliott and Melvin Gordon. "There's a distinct difference."  “If you do your research and do your studies, you’ll find out that Emmitt Smith was never a holdout,” Smith said. “Although the propaganda would say I was a holdout, the reality is my contract was fulfilled and I was negotiating. I wasn’t holding out. … When you don’t have a contract and you’re unemployed, all you can do is negotiate.”

 

[joffer]

You've posted this twice now - how is that possible?

hopefully he got Hopkins and Adams at WR too.

 

[tonydead]

Has there been a definitive answer anywhere regarding when he has to show up to accrue the league year?  Was it August 6th or whatever? Is it by week 8?  Can he skip the entire season somehow? 

I think we reached a consensus on the number of games last night.  Not sure of any date implications:

1 game for the season to count towards ending his contract.  He would need to do that, somehow, for both this year and next for his contract to expire.  He needs to play 6 games either this year or next to accrue that year for free agency and be unrestricted.  He only has 3 accrued years right now which makes him restricted if/when he ever reaches free agency.

 

[dhockster]

Emmitt was in free agency, like Bell was.  Zeke has two years left on his contract - he is required to play games for that contract to expire.  

Okay, so technically, Emmitt wasn't holding out. But the Cowboys signed him to the contract he wanted when they started out 0-2. That situation is comparable to what Zeke is going through today. If the Cowboys lose early, they may have to sign Zeke to a new deal that he wants.

 

[tonydead]

Okay, so technically, Emmitt wasn't holding out. But the Cowboys signed him to the contract he wanted when they started out 0-2. That situation is comparable to what Zeke is going through today. If the Cowboys lose early, they may have to sign Zeke to a new deal that he wants.

Man it's not looking too good for Zeke:  The Giants, Redskins and Dolphins might be the three worst teams in the NFL.

 

[Biabreakable]

There is too much parity in the NFL for the Cowboys for anyone to think that Elliot doesn't help them win.

Without him I dont think those match ups are given to be wins for them.

I really wish Zeke would sign.

 

[stlrams]

You've posted this twice now - how is that possible?

4 team league.

 

[Cowboysfan8]

Man it's not looking too good for Zeke:  The Giants, Redskins and Dolphins might be the three worst teams in the NFL.

They’ll lose one of them

 

[tonydead]

They’ll lose one of them

Blasphemy!

 

[Faust]

Agent's Take: Here's how the Ezekiel Elliott, Cowboys stalemate could be solved

 

[dipandglide]

hopefully he got Hopkins and Adams at WR too.

He settled for Evans and OBJ

 

[Man In The Box]

They’ll lose one of them

Agree here. They’ll get tripped up in one of these games if they don’t have Elliott. 

 

[humpback]

Sound like Jerry Jones disagrees with you.  

"A fresh Zeke at the end of the year would be great,”

I listen to all the stuff coming out of the Star.  The reason for drafting Pollard is so they don't wear out Zeke.  Not only is it a horrible idea for the organization to ride a RB into the ground and then get rid of him, it's a ####ty way to treat people.

You're hearing what you want to hear. Why wouldn't he say a fresh Zeke at the end of the year would be great? Of course it would be, but it says nothing about his expected workload. It seems much more likely that he was putting a positive spin on Zeke missing games than anything about limiting his touches.

How do you know the reason for drafting Pollard (with a late 4th round pick) wasn't as an insurance policy for precisely what is happening right now? Or against an injury or suspension, etc.? Zeke has more carries than any other RB in the league since he's entered it, and he's missed quite a few games (6 due to suspension alone)- all of the sudden they want to completely change course and lighten his load? Not buying it.

I don't disagree that using up a RB and dumping him is a ####ty way to treat people, but we're just going to have to agree to completely disagree about it being a horrible idea for the organization. From a cap perspective particularly, it's 100x better than giving ANY RB a huge contract extension IMO.

 

[tonydead]

You're hearing what you want to hear. Why wouldn't he say a fresh Zeke at the end of the year would be great? Of course it would be, but it says nothing about his expected workload. It seems much more likely that he was putting a positive spin on Zeke missing games than anything about limiting his touches.

How do you know the reason for drafting Pollard (with a late 4th round pick) wasn't as an insurance policy for precisely what is happening right now? Or against an injury or suspension, etc.? Zeke has more carries than any other RB in the league since he's entered it, and he's missed quite a few games (6 due to suspension alone)- all of the sudden they want to completely change course and lighten his load? Not buying it.

I don't disagree that using up a RB and dumping him is a ####ty way to treat people, but we're just going to have to agree to completely disagree about it being a horrible idea for the organization. From a cap perspective particularly, it's 100x better than giving ANY RB a huge contract extension IMO.

I've heard people in the building say it.  All those other reasons too, for the health of the franchise.

ETA:  They historically have tried spelled Zeke a little bit, even though he's gotten 350+ touches a year.  Usually it's two series a game, which turns into half series if they get close to the redzone, that might amount to 6 or 8 touches.  I'm betting pollard gets double that, especially early in the year.

 

[kittenmittens]

That's why I said he has to report for at least 1 game, so that it doesn't toll.  I'm not sure why you're grinding on my posts so hard but I wish you wouldn't misrepresent my position.

Where is the 1 game thing coming from?  Isn't it report by week 9 to get a year towards free agency?  How could he get a year towards the contract but not free agency, arent the two tied together? 

What about the option for the Cowboys to send him a 5 day letter which would mean he can't report at all and loses the year if he doesn't show up within 5 days? 

 

[ILUVBEER99]

I've heard people in the building say it.  All those other reasons too, for the health of the franchise.

ETA:  They historically have tried spelled Zeke a little bit, even though he's gotten 350+ touches a year.  Usually it's two series a game, which turns into half series if they get close to the redzone, that might amount to 6 or 8 touches.  I'm betting pollard gets double that, especially early in the year.

You really think Pollard is getting 12-16 touches a game if Zeke is there?

That's not happening unless Zeke is holding out.

 

[STEADYMOBBIN 22]

They’ll lose one of them

Wanna bet me $25 at 3-1 odds? 

 

[tonydead]

You really think Pollard is getting 12-16 touches a game if Zeke is there?

That's not happening unless Zeke is holding out.

Yes I do. And I think you'll even see both of them in the backfield at the same time. 

 

[ILUVBEER99]

Wanna bet me $25 at 3-1 odds? 

you'll give him 3-1 on them losing one of their first 3 games if Zeke is out?

 

[ILUVBEER99]

Yes I do. And I think you'll even see both of them in the backfield at the same time. 

Huh.  If Zeke is back it's almost impossible that Pollard gets 12-16 touches a game.  

 

[tonydead]

Huh.  If Zeke is back it's almost impossible that Pollard gets 12-16 touches a game.  

Maybe I'm a touch high, but, it's more than people think. Double digits.  

 

[ILUVBEER99]

Maybe I'm a touch high, but, it's more than people think. Double digits.  

so you're predicting a RBBC situation?  double digit touches is extremely rare for a backup when a team has a top 5 RB.

 

[Cowboysfan8]

Wanna bet me $25 at 3-1 odds? 

1. I don’t bet over the internet 

2. If I laid actual money I’d be forced to root against them...that’d be silly

3. You have to admit that these are the type of games that they would drop one. The ones they “should” handle fairly easily. 

Plus 2 are division games, they’re not usually gimmes

 

[tonydead]

so you're predicting a RBBC situation?  double digit touches is extremely rare for a backup when a team has a top 5 RB.

I wouldn't call it that. Spells him for two series a game and gets some touches in gadget plays and dual RB sets. 

 

[ILUVBEER99]

1. I don’t bet over the internet 

2. If I laid actual money I’d be forced to root against them...that’d be silly

3. You have to admit that these are the type of games that they would drop one. The ones they “should” handle fairly easily. 

Plus 2 are division games, they’re not usually gimmes

Agree with your points as a DAL fan.  Let's be generous and say that DAL is -300 in each of the first 3 games (without Zeke the odds would be lower but i'm being generous).  they would still be an underdog (42%) to win all 3 games at those odds.  

If Zeke isn't there i'd bet a lot on them not winning all 3 games even if they are a favorite in each individual one...but like you said not on the internet vs randoms.

 

[STEADYMOBBIN 22]

1. I don’t bet over the internet 

2. If I laid actual money I’d be forced to root against them...that’d be silly

3. You have to admit that these are the type of games that they would drop one. The ones they “should” handle fairly easily. 

Plus 2 are division games, they’re not usually gimmes

1) I was only going for the hyperbole.  I don't want to bet you but I've read enough of your stuff and we've interacted enough that I'm certain you're a man of your word so I would trust you. 

2) I thought of this when I was posting it. 

3) When it comes to our Cowboys you're a bit more of a pessimist than I am. Don't get me wrong, you have valid reasons to be ready for the letdown. 

I think we're going to absolutely slaughter the Giants. The Redskins could be tough because of that interior line. I will be in the stadium for that one. I honestly don't even know who Miami's QB is. 

 

[STEADYMOBBIN 22]

Agree with your points as a DAL fan.  Let's be generous and say that DAL is -300 in each of the first 3 games (without Zeke the odds would be lower but i'm being generous).  they would still be an underdog (42%) to win all 3 games at those odds.  

If Zeke isn't there i'd bet a lot on them not winning all 3 games even if they are a favorite in each individual one...but like you said not on the internet vs randoms.

I beg your pardon? How dare you, sir!

 

[JetMaxx]

There’s nothing like watching the 3 Cowboy fans among 40,000 FBGs argue over their team’s dysfunction

 

[bicycle_seat_sniffer]

well my oldest and final redraft is next Wednesday and I doubt that either Zeke or Melvins situation will be resolved. I have pick #3  and would love to take a healthy Zeke. 

 

[tonydead]

There’s nothing like watching the 3 Cowboy fans among 40,000 FBGs argue over their team’s dysfunction

Dysfunction?   There are a lot more than 3 cowboys fans here and a lot less than 40,000 FBGs.  

 

[tonydead]

More like 40. Can you imagine how many posts per second there would be if there were 40,000 posters logged in.  LOL

 

[ILUVBEER99]

well my oldest and final redraft is next Wednesday and I doubt that either Zeke or Melvins situation will be resolved. I have pick #3  and would love to take a healthy Zeke. 

With #3 pick i wouldn't be that worried.  If he hasn't signed you still get one of McCaffery/Kamara.  The #4 pick is where it gets dicey if Zeke hasn't signed. 

 

[STEADYMOBBIN 22]

More like 40. Can you imagine how many posts per second there would be if there were 40,000 posters logged in.  LOL

There was never 40,000 but this place used to be A LOT busier.  It was pretty crazy. Especially the FFA. 

 

[Tool]

With #3 pick i wouldn't be that worried.  If he hasn't signed you still get one of McCaffery/Kamara.  The #4 pick is where it gets dicey if Zeke hasn't signed. 

Yep, that's why I have. Our league scoring favors RBs over WRs so think I have to take him.  All of the other RBs I would take make me nervous for other reasons.

 

[zeeshan2]

Cowboys may anticipate an Ezekiel Elliott return in October, at the latest

https://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2019/08/29/cowboys-may-anticipate-an-ezekiel-elliott-return-in-october-at-the-latest/amp/