Probably just does want to accept any offer. For all we know he turned down offers that went to a lot of other RB's we've seen signed. For example just because Dalton Schultz is not signed does not mean the league thinks Gesicki is better or more in demand. Just one of them agreed on a contract while the other is waiting and hoping for something better.
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RB Kareem Hunt, KC (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter Biabreakable
- Start date
barackdhouse
Footballguy
FWIW I thought he looked done last year.
ffmail4me
Footballguy
I don't think he's had the wear and tear to be done. Disinterested in that offense and his usage last year? sure, and I wouldn't blame him. But we aren't talking about someone that's had tons of use or injuries.
DJackson10
Footballguy
Good for them the dude is a scumbag who shouldn't be playing same with Mixon and Watson and others of the ilk.
sushinsky4tsar
Footballguy
Just speculating, but maybe this is a case where Hunt the RB would still have a role somewhere despite the dropoff, but the baggage attached to the name makes him not worth it to the teams that would be in the market?
Also, this could just be a case where teams with an opening are at point where they would rather wait to see which RB falls to them in the draft before deciding which veteran best finishes off the RB room, or if their services will even be needed. We'll see what happens with Zeke and Fournette, but it could be the same deal there.
Also, this could just be a case where teams with an opening are at point where they would rather wait to see which RB falls to them in the draft before deciding which veteran best finishes off the RB room, or if their services will even be needed. We'll see what happens with Zeke and Fournette, but it could be the same deal there.
Done is probably pushing it, but the difference between him and Chubb was never more glaring.
I think Hunt's issue (and I'm 100% projecting here) is that he thinks he's a top-5 RB who just happened to be behind maybe the NFL's best RB. When in reality, he's probably closer to about RB30 or so, and is a #2 on most teams.
I think I'd still rather have Hunt than Fournette or Zeke.
100%
I still think he has the best 3 down skill set of any RB that reached UFA. Due to age I might have preferred to invest in Miles, Mattison or maybe Monty over him but that’s it.
InDitkaWeTrust
Footballguy
I think he'd be a great fit for the Bears if the contract length (1-2 years) is favorable.
I think they have 2 RBs better than Hunt already. I really like the Foreman move a lot.
sushinsky4tsar
Footballguy
Possible #2 in Seattle behind Walker? Wouldn't be surprised if Carroll is eyeing one in the draft, but maybe if he strikes out.
That would make sense. Carroll is also one of more, 2nd chance guys in the NFL. That's also why its hard to push Jalen Carter past Seattle in mocks.
ignatiusjreilly
Footballguy
Not buying that teams are avoiding him on any sort of principle, mostly because NFL owners are too cynical for that, and also partly because, while I'm certainly not defending his actions, they were much less worse than what others have done. Also, it's been five years and he hasn't had any issues since then.
I keep going back to what happened in Cleveland last year. Early on, he was getting decent RB2 usage, then they cut way back, presumably because they were shopping him in advance of the trade deadline. But after the deadline passed ... they continued not using him.
I haven't heard any official explanations, but Occam's Razor says that the Browns didn't like what they saw out of him, and I'd guess other teams who have looked at his tape so far feel the same way.
I keep going back to what happened in Cleveland last year. Early on, he was getting decent RB2 usage, then they cut way back, presumably because they were shopping him in advance of the trade deadline. But after the deadline passed ... they continued not using him.
I haven't heard any official explanations, but Occam's Razor says that the Browns didn't like what they saw out of him, and I'd guess other teams who have looked at his tape so far feel the same way.
sushinsky4tsar
Footballguy
I don't think NFL teams are taking a moral stand, but if he has regressed towards a JAG level of NFL RB, even a small PR hit based on his history might not be worth it. Just sign a comparable FA or draft a younger version in the 4th round that might be able to provide similar production out of the gate and call it a day.
It could also be a sign that there's enough respect for what's left that NFL teams don't want to commit without knowing which rookie they're getting. If they strike out on their 3rd/4th/5th round RB target, then they can call him up knowing he's not going to clog up their backfield.
barackdhouse
Footballguy
I thought he looked precipitously slower and less agile - is it related to motivation re:usage? Ok perhaps but I think this looks like what I conceive of as the RB cliff. I largely consider it to be a myth as it is typically used but my take on the cliff is that there are basically three types of NFL backs (that are relevant as either a bell cow or who have a 3down skill set):
1- Talented and still strong and explosive after supposed cliff metric
2- Talented but not still strong and explosive after supposed cliff metric
3- Not as talented as originally thought (may or may not have health/athletic issues but ultimately the lack of talent drives them out of league eventually) - this number is gigantic
2 and 3 are what drive the RB cliff metric myth. The reality is that if you are talented and can still play you will. Hunt has talent in spades (one of my biggest hits ever, definitely not a hater), but IMO he is not athletically strong and explosive anymore and scouts know it. Or at least that is what I saw.
2 is often due to injury or an accumulation of injuries but in Hunt's case that doesn't seem to apply. And he doesn't have a ton of mileage (it's moderate though). Nevertheless there are tons of guys that I thought were talented (enough) and that they still had something left in the tank, but then they wash out before I can blink.
The NFL is almost always going to favor going after younger guys that they can cram into the LOS and pay a rookie contract to over the mystery of whether a talented vet RB falls into category 1 or 2. If you're a GM, how much risk do you take on someone like Hunt that has baggage and is showing signals of decline?
TLDR the decline is usually precipitous, hence the word 'cliff' in the narrative. Hunt seems to fit the pattern though. I'd sell and avoid. That's just me.
1- Talented and still strong and explosive after supposed cliff metric
2- Talented but not still strong and explosive after supposed cliff metric
3- Not as talented as originally thought (may or may not have health/athletic issues but ultimately the lack of talent drives them out of league eventually) - this number is gigantic
2 and 3 are what drive the RB cliff metric myth. The reality is that if you are talented and can still play you will. Hunt has talent in spades (one of my biggest hits ever, definitely not a hater), but IMO he is not athletically strong and explosive anymore and scouts know it. Or at least that is what I saw.
2 is often due to injury or an accumulation of injuries but in Hunt's case that doesn't seem to apply. And he doesn't have a ton of mileage (it's moderate though). Nevertheless there are tons of guys that I thought were talented (enough) and that they still had something left in the tank, but then they wash out before I can blink.
The NFL is almost always going to favor going after younger guys that they can cram into the LOS and pay a rookie contract to over the mystery of whether a talented vet RB falls into category 1 or 2. If you're a GM, how much risk do you take on someone like Hunt that has baggage and is showing signals of decline?
TLDR the decline is usually precipitous, hence the word 'cliff' in the narrative. Hunt seems to fit the pattern though. I'd sell and avoid. That's just me.
This is the time would like to hear some scoop from the so called NFL insiders on the remaining free agent rb's available not breaking news a half hour before everyone in the world knows... would think Hunt, Zeke, Fournette , McKinnon all have to be under consideration for teams but then you hear Cook could be traded, Ekeler wants traded or a new deal will Cincy release Mixon all possibilities that would effect their teams rb situation.
Teams I think could use any of these guys to help out their current RB depth Cincy, KC, Jac, NYG, Clev, Ariz, Sea, TB or like it's been mentioned wait until after the draft
Teams I think could use any of these guys to help out their current RB depth Cincy, KC, Jac, NYG, Clev, Ariz, Sea, TB or like it's been mentioned wait until after the draft
rockaction
Footballguy
I thought so, too. I think I said it in this thread, actually. He just looked slow. Maybe that was injury or motivation, but the teams only see what you're putting on tape. Every game is an audition for next year, so I doubt it was motivation, or if it was it was a colossally poor decision to be unmotivated at about age 27 or 8 or so.
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dmac37
Footballguy
It did look like he dropped off some last season, not sure that means he has lost a step or not. Very little usage through the years and was never a guy that relied on speed but certainly had crazy in game NFL speed. With that said, ROJO was just signed, I'm sorry but this looks like Hunt is being black balled or whatever definition you want to use. Hunt is a complete multi purpose RB that has as much NFL value as FF value. I honestly believe he is getting the Ray Rice treatment. The guy deserved a 2nd chance and got it, has since done nothing to warrant concern since the original incident.
RenegadeRoy
Footballguy
I'm honestly surprised the Cowboys didn't bring in Hunt before Rojo. Seems like the perfect scenario for both Hunt and the 'Boys with Zeke on his way out.
ghostguy123
Footballguy
He isn't as good as he was, that's obvious.
He's still a pretty good RBBC with flex appeal though. Unless in a disaster spot of course.
He's still a pretty good RBBC with flex appeal though. Unless in a disaster spot of course.
zamboni
Footballguy
I suppose there could be some blackballing involved, but my guess is that he/his agent are overinflating his value and teams aren’t biting.
He might have a really terrible agent. I thought at the time taking the contract extension with the Browns was a bad move. It's like he under inflated his value and now is over inflating it.
I don't think he's getting blackballed on the whole, but for sure a few teams will continue to hold his past transgression against him. Some teams are zero tolerance on stuff like that even if most people, me included, feel like he's more then paid for his sin.
dmac37
Footballguy
I agree on his last contract with the Browns, inside info at the time may have told him it was the best move but I thought that was the time to strike for him.
Dr. Octopus
Footballguy
is claiming “collusion” for every free agent that takes a few weeks to sign the new thing? I’m already over it.
ghostguy123
Footballguy
Jags, Broncos, Vikings.
Those are my guesses of possible landing spot.
Dark horse spot back in Cleveland.
Those are my guesses of possible landing spot.
Dark horse spot back in Cleveland.
Birdie048
Footballguy
I believe Hunt will land with the Broncos... They are strapped for picks and Javonte's recovery is no sure thing. Hunt can play a "quasi-Kamara" role for HC Payton and allow the offense some semblance of life.
ignatiusjreilly
Footballguy
I think we should also not overinterpret a still-developing situation. There are a bunch of free agent RBs still out there (Zeke, Lenny, McKinnon), plus the Ekeler and Mixon situations are unresolved. Teams aren't rushing to sign these middling options, and the fact that others are waiting makes it more rational for each individual team to wait as well.
ignatiusjreilly
Footballguy
The idea that the league is colluding on RBs is laughable. Teams have just figured out in recent years that they're not worth nearly as much as everyone used to think
ghostguy123
Footballguy
Not these 27-28 year old guys anyway
zamboni
Footballguy
Agreed. It's not like these FAs are going anywhere. Teams can wait until after the draft and if they don't fill their RB needs, they can pick off one of the FAs perhaps even more on the cheap.
ignatiusjreilly
Footballguy
Great point. A RB on a rookie contract is way more valuable than a vet who may already be washed and probably only has a year or two left at best. There's a reason the RBs who have been getting signed are mostly younger guys on their second contract like Sanders, Penny and Montgomery (Jamaal is one of the rare exceptions). With the vets, it's like, you missed out on Zeke? No worries, just get Lenny. Missed him? Sign Hunt. They're interchangeable.
barackdhouse
Footballguy
I agree it's too early to be coming to strong conclusions about these vet FA RBs right now. I think there are so many good rookies coming in that it makes their value far less. GMs can afford to run out the clock on this and the price goes down every day. Plus every day they get closer to the draft their lens becomes just a little bit clearer. There is no real incentive for them to sign a (presumably premium) vet RB right now. The only real incentive would be if the talent and availability level of a given back were so high that they didn't want to miss out. None of these guys are that. They are mid tier vets and there are a few of them, so there just isn't any scarcity driving anything here. They all have question marks, they all have age against them and they're all more expensive than rookies.
But I do assume they all sign eventually, but wouldn't be surprised if it is until after the draft. I'm not saying any of them are completely washed BTW, but that is the direction I would be placing my bets if I were a GM. Gimme the rookie all frickin day long.
But I do assume they all sign eventually, but wouldn't be surprised if it is until after the draft. I'm not saying any of them are completely washed BTW, but that is the direction I would be placing my bets if I were a GM. Gimme the rookie all frickin day long.
barackdhouse
Footballguy
barackdhouse
Footballguy
In the 20th and final round of an FFPC TriFlex startup and he is still sitting there. I'm on deck and have one more pick after that and not sure I want him on my roster. Plus I have this morbid urge to see him go past this whole startup undrafted. Frankly I'd be surprised. Someone is gonna pull the trigger surely.
rockaction
Footballguy
He will get a shot somewhere, but won't do much with it. That's what I'm thinking. He's done like Elliott.
JohnnyU
Footballguy
Probably the other way around.
Dr. Octopus
Footballguy
You think Hunt would be the main back with Pollard the compliment? Interesting take.
JohnnyU
Footballguy
That would be a stupid mistake, unless he likes playing 2nd fiddle.
If he doesn't like playing second fiddle, his career is probably over.
zamboni
Footballguy
He needs to take whatever fiddle he’s offered - not exactly Charlie Daniels any more.
JohnnyU
Footballguy
Some feel he can still lead a backfield
dmac37
Footballguy
I'm one of them. if you consider leading a backfield these days is more of a 1A in a 1A/1B backfield. He was never a burner but has proven he has game speed, low usage also in his favor. He also possesses the traits for fantasy production, great receiving RB and a nose for the end zone. I would like to hear a report of him busting his *** to show what he can still do and hold some kind of workout to dismiss he has slowed down, signed hopeful dynasty owner.
dmac37
Footballguy
I'm the ultimate Hunt stan, hanging on that he will still have value for a few years. The way this draft is playing out with teams already set at RB drafting RB's and RB needy teams not drafting one, I have to believe that Hunt has a great shot at being picked up in a good situation.
Dave Stauff
Footballguy
Tampa Bay on line one . . .
