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RB Saquon Barkley, PHI (1 Viewer)

kutta said:
So you're saying the guy who, in consecutive years, scored 14, 16, 14, 16, 27 TD's, wasn't a good short yardage back? I haven't looked up efficiency or any stats, but I do remember him being an absolute beast around the goalline. 

Do you have some stats to support that statement? I'd be really interested to see them.
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I meant more in terms of running style...

He had a great line and he was extremely elusive but he absolutely did not like to lower his shoulder and make his own hole. 

 
fightingillini said:
Sure.  He should be a weakish RB2/RB3 while Barkley is out.  He's nothing special, but he could certainly help you get your starting RBs through their bye weeks. 
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Depends on who the Giants sign, I could see a vet like CJ Anderson turning this into a RBBC in below average offense which would bake it difficult to start Gallman with any confidence even as a RB3

 
PigSkinMan said:
Depends on who the Giants sign, I could see a vet like CJ Anderson turning this into a RBBC in below average offense which would bake it difficult to start Gallman with any confidence even as a RB3
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That's certainly possible, but you might as well add Gallman and see what happens.

Question is....do you bid BIG FAAB dollars for him?  Since Gallman isn't that great, emptying the clip for Gallman could turn out to be a big mistake if indeed the NYG go out and get a vet to share the load.  Even if they don't, Gallman won't get anywhere near the load the Barkley gets.  You hope for 12-14 carries and 2-3 receptions.

 
rockaction said:
Sure it has. And advancements allowed Grant Hill to play in the end. It's just that ankle injuries, not given enough time to heal, can have serious deleterious effects on one's career.

I highly doubt anybody wants to argue this.

Sometimes, trainers almost hope for a fracture so they can reset the bone. That's what I used to hear. I could be wrong about it being that extreme, but that this can linger, and if pushed, get worse, is largely not up for debate.   
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Roddy White had a career ending high ankle sprain... He was only 30, he just tried to play through it. 

My recollection may not be perfect, but that's what I recall happening. 

 
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A lot of talk about athletes not coming back to full health after HAS. Are there any example of the opposite, players coming back and dominating?

 
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Tom Pelissero @TomPelissero

#Giants RB Saquon Barkley is scheduled to see Dr. Robert Anderson tomorrow for another opinion on his high ankle sprain, source said (as @mortreport said). Continuing to gather info from top experts on how to proceed with an injury expected to sideline him at least four weeks.
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kittenmittens said:
Roddy White had a career ending high ankle sprain... He was only 30, he just tried to play through it. 

My recollection may not be perfect, but that's what I recall happening. 
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This is wrong.

Roddy White had a High Ankle Sprain in 2013 at age of 32.  He did play through it and had a successful year for a 32 year old WR. Could he have done better without ankle sprain? Probably. Did it end his career and make him ineffective? No.  He had 63 receptions and 711 yards in 13 games.

In 2014 he came back in age 33 year--when even great WRs begin to lose it. In 14 games he had 80 receptions and 921 yards. The HAS did not end his career.

He played another full 16 games in 2015 in age 34 although he only produced 43 receptions and 500+ yards. It was an elbow sprain and surgery that ended his career.

Can we stop it with the doom and gloom when none of us are Barkley's doctor. A HAS sprain although debilitating for 1 to 2 months is not career ending.

https://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/W/WhitRo00.htm

https://sportsinjurypredictor.com/player/roddy-white/3200

 
az_prof said:
This is wrong.

Roddy White had a High Ankle Sprain in 2013 at age of 32.  He did play through it and had a successful year for a 32 year old WR. Could he have done better without ankle sprain? Probably. Did it end his career and make him ineffective? No.  He had 63 receptions and 711 yards in 13 games.

In 2014 he came back in age 33 year--when even great WRs begin to lose it. In 14 games he had 80 receptions and 921 yards. The HAS did not end his career.

He played another full 16 games in 2015 in age 34 although he only produced 43 receptions and 500+ yards. It was an elbow sprain and surgery that ended his career.

Can we stop it with the doom and gloom when none of us are Barkley's doctor. A HAS sprain although debilitating for 1 to 2 months is not career ending.

https://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/W/WhitRo00.htm

https://sportsinjurypredictor.com/player/roddy-white/3200
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Thanks - my recollection was much worse than I thought, apparently.  Perhaps it ended his fantasy relevance as a top WR option in my mind.  I just thought he was never the same after playing through that HAS - maybe because he was 34... :)

I stand corrected, thanks for setting me straight.

To be clear, I was just saying that I really hope he rests it until healed rather than come back early (because of the thing I referenced that I was wrong about).  I don't think it's bad, just want them to be cautious, even though that specific example didn't happen the way I remembered.

 
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IMO he will be out 6-8 weeks. There is no reason to rush back from a high ankle sprain which is a serious ankle injury. If you re-injure a high ankle sprain it can be devastating long term. 

 
It's funny what Saquon's trade value is right now.  If you try to trade for him, his owner will want a star player in exchange.  But if you own him, people will offer you players who won't even be in your starting lineup.  This is even true whether the teams involved are 3-0 or 0-3.  Clearly, if you are 0-3 and own Saquon, you should be trying to trade him to the 3-0 owner who has depth.  A mutually beneficial trade should be easy to pull off.  But it's not.

 
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STEADYMOBBIN 22 said:
This guy is never going to make it. Shys away from contact like Sean Alexander and the way he contorts his body will lend itself to unjury.

Don't get me wrong, I think hes is the best athlete in the NFL, I just don't see him playing more than a handful of injury riddled years. 
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I’m sorry but....what?

 
Don Hutson said:
It's funny what Saquon's trade value is right now.  If you try to trade for him, his owner will want a star player in exchange.  But if you own him, people will offer you players who won't even be in your starting lineup.  This is even true whether the teams involved are 3-0 or 0-3.  Clearly, if you are 0-3 and own Saquon, you should be trying to trade him to the 3-0 owner who has depth.  A mutually beneficial trade should be easy to pull off.  But it's not.
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Because people suck. This new generation of fantasy owner is fleece as much as you can instead of making mutually beneficial trades. Very hard to get deals in any leagues. And it always ends up being the same 3-4 guys while the rest are ### clowns.

 
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Todem said:
Because people suck. This new generation of fantasy owner is fleece as much as you can instead of making mutually beneficial trades. Very hard to get deals in any leagues. And it always ends up being the same 3-4 guys while the rest are ### clowns.
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I agree they generally do but the low end of the range of outcomes for Barkley is that he's out until at least Week 12 and if the Giants' season collapses in on itself in the meantime, they could be conservative with him - both in terms of when they bring him back and the workload he gets when he does return. Maybe you're trading for studly PPG performance that immediately resumes in Week 12 and continues through the fantasy play-offs. Maybe not.

I might be an ### clown for not wanting to trade a Week 4 starter for that - or I may have done my own risk analysis and come to a different conclusion. 

 
STEADYMOBBIN 22 said:
Barkley is supremely athletic and an amazing talent however the way he throws his body around on the field in acrobatic maneuvers lends itself to injury.
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This is a laughably horrible take in general. For the most part Barkley avoids contact by virtue of being as shifty as he is... he doesn't 'throw his body around'. He missed two games in three years in college and this was a freak accident where he was mid juke and the defender grabbed his ankle and rolled his entire body over top of it as Saquon was mid step. This had nothing to do with him 'throwing his body around'. His foot got caught in the grass as the dude tackling him put his entire body weight onto Saquon's ankle and rolled it extremely hard.

As for the Shaun Alexander take... most RBs could only hope to be as great as Shaun Alexander, you're talking about one of the best RBs in the NFL for the early 2000s and one of a few RBs in history to win an MVP award. And Alexander wasn't exactly injury prone, he broke his foot one year and then broke his wrist the next year and then he retired after that basically.

That said, Barkley is more Barry Sanders than Shaun Alexander in terms of style of runner. Alexander ran a 4.58 he didn't have near the shiftiness or breakaway speed or lateral agility of Barkley. Alexander ran through people a lot more than he avoided people.

 
A lot of drama as if a player never had a HAS and returned from it. After bye? Really?

They are 1-2, have Danny Dimes, Shep, Tate and Engram.

They will bring him back when he is ready? 8 weeks and after bye when he is getting a 2nd opinion to see if he can come back even quicker? Thats what some think?

Makes no sense in NYC.

He wants to play, he will play when he is ready. Some always think they hold people out as if the HC dont need to win and get Barkley on the field. Some still think this even after we see even Calvin was told to lie by the Lions. Teams want their players on the field. Why people still believe teams will hold players off the field as if every team is the Packers is just too much.

 
tackle for loss said:
A lot of drama as if a player never had a HAS and returned from it. After bye? Really?

They are 1-2, have Danny Dimes, Shep, Tate and Engram.

They will bring him back when he is ready? 8 weeks and after bye when he is getting a 2nd opinion to see if he can come back even quicker? Thats what some think?

Makes no sense in NYC.

He wants to play, he will play when he is ready. Some always think they hold people out as if the HC dont need to win and get Barkley on the field. Some still think this even after we see even Calvin was told to lie by the Lions. Teams want their players on the field. Why people still believe teams will hold players off the field as if every team is the Packers is just too much.
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People typically don't seek a second medical opinion when they're content with the first one. This suggests to me the 4-8 week estimate is far more likely to be 8 than 4.

In terms of assessing the "fantasy risk" here, you're obviously entitled to believe that Barkley is going to fully recover this season and return to the field with his full pre-injury workload/usage and without any physical limitations. That's definitely one possible outcome but there are others. I would doubt that the team is going to shelve him for no good reason but I don't think anyone here is really suggesting that anyway.

 
Khy said:
This is a laughably horrible take in general. For the most part Barkley avoids contact by virtue of being as shifty as he is... he doesn't 'throw his body around'. He missed two games in three years in college and this was a freak accident where he was mid juke and the defender grabbed his ankle and rolled his entire body over top of it as Saquon was mid step. This had nothing to do with him 'throwing his body around'. His foot got caught in the grass as the dude tackling him put his entire body weight onto Saquon's ankle and rolled it extremely hard.

As for the Shaun Alexander take... most RBs could only hope to be as great as Shaun Alexander, you're talking about one of the best RBs in the NFL for the early 2000s and one of a few RBs in history to win an MVP award. And Alexander wasn't exactly injury prone, he broke his foot one year and then broke his wrist the next year and then he retired after that basically.

That said, Barkley is more Barry Sanders than Shaun Alexander in terms of style of runner. Alexander ran a 4.58 he didn't have near the shiftiness or breakaway speed or lateral agility of Barkley. Alexander ran through people a lot more than he avoided people.
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I know you guys are super insecure about my take on Barkley. I have prefaced every single one of my posts, marveling at his athletic ability and skill. I never suggested the guy isn’t good and agree on your Barry sanders comparison as I have stated that same comparison previously.

I’m sorry you think my take is horrible but it’s my take. I respect your opinion and we shall see how this plays out.

 
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Don Hutson said:
It's funny what Saquon's trade value is right now.  If you try to trade for him, his owner will want a star player in exchange.  But if you own him, people will offer you players who won't even be in your starting lineup.  This is even true whether the teams involved are 3-0 or 0-3.  Clearly, if you are 0-3 and own Saquon, you should be trying to trade him to the 3-0 owner who has depth.  A mutually beneficial trade should be easy to pull off.  But it's not.
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I got an offer of Russell Wilson for him in redraft/keeper (but my keeper price on Barkley would have been $70+ auction dollars).  I'm 1-2, due to some bad schedule luck. Ended up accepting.  My current QB is Goff, and Wilson should be a good upgrade there.  I've also still got Dalvin Cook and Kerryon Johnson at RB, so hoping they will be enough to keep me going at RB. I'll probably regret if Barkley ends up on the shorter timeline, but I'm inclined to believe the longer timeline.

 
Bleacher report indicating that his 2nd opinion didn't recommend "tightrope" surgery.

So there's that.

Apparently, this is the surgery AL's Tua had.

 
kyoun1e said:
More on the "tightrope" surgery avoided apparently and Tua's recovery:

https://www.si.com/college-football/2019/01/06/tua-tagovailoa-ankle-surgery-alabama-injuries-tightrope

This may be good news. If Tua was back after 4 weeks having the surgery, maybe Barkley is thinking he's back on the lower end of the timeline without the surgery.
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I can't really interpret this either way. In general people try to avoid surgery because of the potential for complications. If the non-surgical timeline was longer you might choose it because it was less risky.

This certainly could be good news but possibly just more information.

 
STEADYMOBBIN 22 said:
Barkley is supremely athletic and an amazing talent however the way he throws his body around on the field in acrobatic maneuvers lends itself to injury.
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lol a guy who gets tackled 20+ times a game is bound to get injured.  It's hilarious how you didn't make this prediction last year watching all his acrobatics and started all 16 games.

 
I'm going to guess that the only time surgery would be an option in the case was if the Giants were a Super Bowl contender and it was week 12....They would want to make sure he was around for the playoffs....Since neither of these are even close to true surgery should not even be considered in my medical opinion (BTW I work in IT hahahaha)

 
STEADYMOBBIN 22 said:
Barkley is supremely athletic and an amazing talent however the way he throws his body around on the field in acrobatic maneuvers lends itself to injury.
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Hadn't this dude played all 57 games of his college/pro career prior to spraining his ankle in his 5th year as a starter at both levels?

I get the logic, but that logic gets literally applied to every running style and every body type and I think it's all just a bunch of logical fallacies.  If a guy cuts a lot then he's going to get hurt cutting.  If a guy doesn't cut and contort a lot then he's a target that is going to take too many big hits.  If a guy is tall then he is going to be too vulnerable and get injured.  If he's stout then he's too small and is going to get crushed.

In practice, Barkley has been about as durable as is humanly possible for a running back.  Christian McCaffrey may be the only RB in the entire NFL who has been more durable through his college/pro career so far.

 
tjnc09 said:
lol a guy who gets tackled 20+ times a game is bound to get injured.  It's hilarious how you didn't make this prediction last year watching all his acrobatics and started all 16 games.
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FreeBaGeL said:
Hadn't this dude played all 57 games of his college/pro career prior to spraining his ankle in his 5th year as a starter at both levels?

I get the logic, but that logic gets literally applied to every running style and every body type and I think it's all just a bunch of logical fallacies.  If a guy cuts a lot then he's going to get hurt cutting.  If a guy doesn't cut and contort a lot then he's a target that is going to take too many big hits.  If a guy is tall then he is going to be too vulnerable and get injured.  If he's stout then he's too small and is going to get crushed.

In practice, Barkley has been about as durable as is humanly possible for a running back.  Christian McCaffrey may be the only RB in the entire NFL who has been more durable through his college/pro career so far.
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This season he's out 6-8 weeks for an ankle injury.

Last season he left the Cowboys game with....an ankle injury. 

I found this info online: 

DateLeagueInjuryDetails

Aug 13, 2018NFLThigh Hamstring Sprain/Pull Unspecified Grade 1Barkley was hurt in camp while running a pass route. He missed 8 days but was ready for Week 1.

Nov 26, 2016Non-NFLPedal Ankle Sprain/Pull Unspecified Grade 1Barkley injured his right ankle in the 3rd quarter vs. Michigan State but was able to play the following week.

Sep 26, 2015Non-NFLPedal Ankle Sprain Grade 2Barkley missed 2 games as a freshman with an ankle injury.
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So no, I'm not making this up as I go. 
 

 
Johnny B. Goode said:
He has his Giants hating goggles on
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So I said the guy is the best RB in the league and closet thing to Barry Sanders since Barry Sanders and Im "hating".

I'm an adult, I don't "hate". Somewhere int he past 10-15 years - if you disagree with somebody it's "hating".

It's called having a different opinion than you have. 

 
STEADYMOBBIN 22 said:
So I said the guy is the best RB in the league and closet thing to Barry Sanders since Barry Sanders and Im "hating".

I'm an adult, I don't "hate". Somewhere int he past 10-15 years - if you disagree with somebody it's "hating".

It's called having a different opinion than you have. 
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often your crowd accuses eagle fans of having hater goggles on. just returning the favor, even though im.not an eaglea fan

 
tjnc09 said:
:lmao:  the guy had 773 touches in college and he only missed two games.  
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Most great backs don’t miss a lot of time in college. Obviously the NFL is a different animal. 

Hey man. You don’t have to like my opinion. I hope I’m wrong. I don’t think I will be but this thread will be here for you. 

 
Saquon is the best.  I succeeded in buying him in one league (not cheaply) and am trying in all others.  I want 100 percent dynasty ownership.  Saquon is the best RB i have seen since Barry Sanders.  If anyone is selling now, I am buying all day. 

 
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According to NFL Network's Kimberly Jones, Saquon Barkley (ankle) is "already telling people" he plans to beat his projected 4-8 week timetable.

He went down with a high-ankle sprain in Week 3, an injury that usually carries a 1-2 month recovery. Barkley is confident he'll make it back sooner than that, though ultimately that decision won't be up to him as the Giants' training staff will make sure he's being "cautious enough" in his rehab. In the absence of a trade or free-agent signing (former Dolphins 1,000-yard rusher Jay Ajayi is reportedly looking for an opportunity), Wayne Gallman will serve as New York's bell-cow in Barkley's stead.

SOURCE: Ian Rapoport on Twitter

Sep 29, 2019, 9:56 AM ET
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Just a reminder for those losing their mind over Barkley injury history. Football players get hurt. Some "more than others" and Barkley is not a "more than others" category. That is all.

Relax, we are not at Ryan Matthews injury level yet.

4 weeks is my belief but 8? Never and 6 will even be pushing it. If the Giants win today, that will be a big push since the Eagles are even 2-2. 

 
This is what I feared during the Gallman Jr. waiver craziness. Barkley's X-gene is going to kick in and he'll be back in 4-5 weeks. He's already done it before.

 
tackle for loss said:
Just a reminder for those losing their mind over Barkley injury history. Football players get hurt. Some "more than others" and Barkley is not a "more than others" category. That is all.

Relax, we are not at Ryan Matthews injury level yet.

4 weeks is my belief but 8? Never and 6 will even be pushing it. If the Giants win today, that will be a big push since the Eagles are even 2-2. 
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Yep, RBs are the most injured position in football.  

 
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