Referees and Rules? (1 Viewer)

[JuSt CuZ]

After considering some of the Calls from this past week... the crown hits on QBs that are not called, the phantom holding on the awesome punt return in Chicago, and then this which really got me mad as a football fan...

The hit on Santana Moss last night that was flagged for a personal foul as a "hit on a defensless receiver", last I checked, a WR catching the ball then trying to run is the person you want to hit, or am I wrong?

I'm not a Redskins or Cowboys fan, nor have any of them on my fantasy teams...so in an unbiased position I ask this...

Are the rules or the Refs the problem in the NFL?

 

[Rick James]

The Santana Moss play was awful, and I'm glad Gruden didn't let that one slide by without notice.

 

[Young 8]

Are the rules or the Refs the problem in the NFL?

both

 

[JuSt CuZ]

The Santana Moss play was awful, and I'm glad Gruden didn't let that one slide by without notice.

I honestly cant believe that is not a bigger story, as its a bad thing if you are not allowed to hit at all in the NFL, and that looks like where we are going.

 

[The Jerk]

The Santana Moss play was awful, and I'm glad Gruden didn't let that one slide by without notice.

Made Tirico look like a shill, too. Good work.We're almost to the point where the defense must let the receiver catch the ball, then ask if they're ready to get hit, and then cradle them gently to the ground.I do NOT like the helmet to helmet hits, but the hit on Moss was not a helmet hit or a launch hit, but a good crisp shoulder to chest smack that practically defines proper tackling -- minus a wrap, of course, but that's been disappearing for years, and a wrap doesn't carry the same chance of dislodging the ball. To me, it was exactly how players should hit receivers in these type of situations.

 

[hook014]

Although I agree with the Moss hit, (horrible call) the Bears return had a holding flag within a couple seconds of breaking downfield. It was a hold, it was flagged in a timely manner and it was warranted.

IMO the reason people are upset with that play is it called back one of the best ST fake outs in memory. I don't have any problem with that flag, the official is not to blame, the player is.

 

[Scruff Mcgruff]

After considering some of the Calls from this past week... the crown hits on QBs that are not called, the phantom holding on the awesome punt return in Chicago, and then this which really got me mad as a football fan...The hit on Santana Moss last night that was flagged for a personal foul as a "hit on a defensless receiver", last I checked, a WR catching the ball then trying to run is the person you want to hit, or am I wrong?I'm not a Redskins or Cowboys fan, nor have any of them on my fantasy teams...so in an unbiased position I ask this...Are the rules or the Refs the problem in the NFL?

The spread for the Green Bay-Chicago game was Green Bay by 4. If Chicago gets that TD, it's a 3 point game. Makes you wonder if the refs were also perhaps aware of this fact...

 

[FDC]

The refs aren't consistent which adds to it but I put the blame more on the coaches and players. I have seen too many game changing penalties to allow my players to hit a defenseless player. If I'm the coach I'm teaching arm tackles when players are in vulnerable positions. I know that goes against a lot of people's beliefs about football but this is losing teams football games. Smart coaches aren't going to be OK with that in the long term. I think its just a matter of time before we start to see some change.

 

[JuSt CuZ]

After considering some of the Calls from this past week... the crown hits on QBs that are not called, the phantom holding on the awesome punt return in Chicago, and then this which really got me mad as a football fan...The hit on Santana Moss last night that was flagged for a personal foul as a "hit on a defensless receiver", last I checked, a WR catching the ball then trying to run is the person you want to hit, or am I wrong?I'm not a Redskins or Cowboys fan, nor have any of them on my fantasy teams...so in an unbiased position I ask this...Are the rules or the Refs the problem in the NFL?

The spread for the Green Bay-Chicago game was Green Bay by 4. If Chicago gets that TD, it's a 3 point game. Makes you wonder if the refs were also perhaps aware of this fact...

What about the obvious tackle of Ware in the backfield last nioght that was not called while 2 people wearing stripes seen it.I aint gonna lie, and I have no proof.But I dont believe for one minute, that not one ref in the league is crooked...and to be honest, I think more then a few are crooked.Its my own opinion, and to be honest, I'm surprised its not more obvious to others...not just on calls this week, but every week.

 

[sho nuff]

the phantom holding on the awesome punt return in Chicago

You mean the call that is shown by video and still images and the guy guilty of it admitted that he did hold Bush going down the field?That one?

 

[Mello]

Both. Stupid rules that ask refs to make tough calls combined with refs that are not doing their job. And the league doesn't care.

 

[zed2283]

Rules.

 

[JuSt CuZ]

the phantom holding on the awesome punt return in Chicago

You mean the call that is shown by video and still images and the guy guilty of it admitted that he did hold Bush going down the field?That one?

LOL, please it was yet another horrible call. But I'm sure your objective as a Packers fan who watched your team, current champs, get outsmarted.

 

[Limp Ditka]

the phantom holding on the awesome punt return in Chicago

You mean the call that is shown by video and still images and the guy guilty of it admitted that he did hold Bush going down the field?That one?

LOL, please it was yet another horrible call. But I'm sure your objective as a Packers fan who watched your team, current champs, get outsmarted.

oof

 

[renesauz]

The Santana Moss play was awful, and I'm glad Gruden didn't let that one slide by without notice.

Made Tirico look like a shill, too. Good work.We're almost to the point where the defense must let the receiver catch the ball, then ask if they're ready to get hit, and then cradle them gently to the ground.I do NOT like the helmet to helmet hits, but the hit on Moss was not a helmet hit or a launch hit, but a good crisp shoulder to chest smack that practically defines proper tackling -- minus a wrap, of course, but that's been disappearing for years, and a wrap doesn't carry the same chance of dislodging the ball. To me, it was exactly how players should hit receivers in these type of situations.

I'm all for the defenseless receiver rule, but that hit was low and clean. ON most receivers, contact would have been around the belly-button. Even with the shorter Moss, contact was to the chest...with a shoulder. No way it should have been flagged.Another play from last night had me wondering too. There was a facemask call I didn't like too much. When they got rid of the 5 yard penalty, the idea was that only egregious facemasks would be called. Grazing a hand over the mask, if there's no pull or tug and the hand doesn't stay there, isn't supposed to result in a penalty....yet all too often they flg it anyway. That facemask last night was bogus...he didn't tug it, and he moved his hand away and elsewhere in less than a 1/2 second...the very definition of incidental...shouldn't have been called as it certainly wasn't worthy of a 15 yard penalty.Too many incidentals being flagged as personal fouls.

 

[Stinkin Ref]

funny...I was going to come in this morning and start a thread titled...

"Can Someone Please Explain Exactly What A Defenseless Receiver Is...?"

it drives me nuts.....I don't understand how there even is such a thing.....

if you have a helmet to helmet hit or leading with the helmet or launching with the helmet first or something.....fine....penalize it.....but I wish they would get rid of this DEFENSELESS RECEIVER BS........

YOU ARE NOT DEFENSELESS......YOU PUT YOURSELF IN THAT POSITION......IF YOU DON'T WANT TO GET HIT.....DON'T PUT YOURSELF IN THAT POSITION.....DONT TRY AND MAKE THE CATCH.....

run a better route to get open.....have your QB put it in a better spot to catch it without somebody blowing you up.....do something else.....run the ball....

to me....it really should almost be the boxing mantra....PROTECT YOURSELF AT ALL TIMES....

15 yard penalties like this can be game changers......

it is one thing to error on the side of caution.....it is another thing to take things a little too far.....these refs think they can throw flags now on almost any hit that looks the least bit VIOLENT....and then they will hide behind the "SAFETY FIRST/PROTECT THE PLAYER" tag....

it's bs.....

eta...god my spelling sucks

 

[JuSt CuZ]

funny...I was going to come in this morning and start a thread titled...

"Can Someone Please Explain Exactly What A Defenseless Receiver Is...?"

it drives me nuts.....I don't understand how there even is such a thing.....

if you have a helmet to helmet hit or leading with the helmet or launching with the helmet first or something.....fine....penalize it.....but I wsh they would get rid of this DEFENSELESS RECEIVER BS........

YOU ARE NOT DEFENSELESS......YOU PUT YPOURSELF IN THAT POSITION......IF YOU DON'T WANT TO GET HIT.....DON'T PUT YOURSELF IN THAT POSITION.....DONT TRY AND MAKE THE CATCH.....

run a better route to get open.....have your QB put it in a better spot to catch it without somebody blowing you up.....do something else.....run the ball....

to me....it really should almost bet the boxing mantra....PROTECT YOURSELF AT ALL TIMES....

15 yard penalties like this can be game changers......

it is one thing to error on the side of caution.....it is another thing to take things a little too far.....thiese refs think they can throw flags now on almost any hit that looks the least bit VIOLENT....and then they will hide behing the "SAFETY FIRST/PROTECT THE PLAYER" tag....

its' bs.....

Speak it man, speak it! lol

 

[B-Deep]

the phantom holding on the awesome punt return in Chicago

You mean the call that is shown by video and still images and the guy guilty of it admitted that he did hold Bush going down the field?That one?

LOL, please it was yet another horrible call. But I'm sure your objective as a Packers fan who watched your team, current champs, get outsmarted.

open your mindone world government, elite ruling class, officials making phantom calls. Look, do you wanna play blindman? Go walk with the shepherd. But me, my eyes are wide ####### open.

 

[sho nuff]

the phantom holding on the awesome punt return in Chicago

You mean the call that is shown by video and still images and the guy guilty of it admitted that he did hold Bush going down the field?That one?

LOL, please it was yet another horrible call. But I'm sure your objective as a Packers fan who watched your team, current champs, get outsmarted.

They did get outsmarted and Bush would not likely have even made the play.Does not mean there was not a hold.As a member of the Chicago Bears, I guess Corey Graham (the guy called for the hold) is biased now since he admitted he held him right?The images and video of him holding Bush are biased too...camera guy must have been a Packers fan for capturing that.

 

[Stinkin Ref]

the penalty on the hit on Moss was a joke....overreaction to a play that "looked" violent....

and as a fellow official....I am embarrassed by the "non" call on what should have been a hold on WAS when Ware was rushing the QB late....

they moved the umpire into the backfield so he doesn't get injured but also to have a better look at plays like this.....Ware and the lineman were out there in front of God and everybody in the middle of the field....it wasn't like they were engaged in the trenches at the line of scrimmage.......the o lineman tackles him from behind and there is no flag.....not sure how that is possible as that is at the point of attack and one of the only things they need to be watching there....it's non calls like that that make us look just as bad as the ones we do call and get wrong....

 

[JuSt CuZ]

the phantom holding on the awesome punt return in Chicago

You mean the call that is shown by video and still images and the guy guilty of it admitted that he did hold Bush going down the field?That one?

LOL, please it was yet another horrible call. But I'm sure your objective as a Packers fan who watched your team, current champs, get outsmarted.

They did get outsmarted and Bush would not likely have even made the play.Does not mean there was not a hold.As a member of the Chicago Bears, I guess Corey Graham (the guy called for the hold) is biased now since he admitted he held him right?The images and video of him holding Bush are biased too...camera guy must have been a Packers fan for capturing that.

Yup, your a Packers fan alright.If your a football fan, which I assume you are...you know that holding can be called on every play. But the refs chose that one? hmmmm

 

[Limp Ditka]

the phantom holding on the awesome punt return in Chicago

You mean the call that is shown by video and still images and the guy guilty of it admitted that he did hold Bush going down the field?That one?

LOL, please it was yet another horrible call. But I'm sure your objective as a Packers fan who watched your team, current champs, get outsmarted.

They did get outsmarted and Bush would not likely have even made the play.Does not mean there was not a hold.As a member of the Chicago Bears, I guess Corey Graham (the guy called for the hold) is biased now since he admitted he held him right?The images and video of him holding Bush are biased too...camera guy must have been a Packers fan for capturing that.

Yup, your a Packers fan alright.If your a football fan, which I assume you are...you know that holding can be called on every play. But the refs chose that one? hmmmm

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZiFiaM4HDpMWatchLearnLeave

 

[sho nuff]

the phantom holding on the awesome punt return in Chicago

You mean the call that is shown by video and still images and the guy guilty of it admitted that he did hold Bush going down the field?That one?

LOL, please it was yet another horrible call. But I'm sure your objective as a Packers fan who watched your team, current champs, get outsmarted.

They did get outsmarted and Bush would not likely have even made the play.Does not mean there was not a hold.As a member of the Chicago Bears, I guess Corey Graham (the guy called for the hold) is biased now since he admitted he held him right?The images and video of him holding Bush are biased too...camera guy must have been a Packers fan for capturing that.

Yup, your a Packers fan alright.If your a football fan, which I assume you are...you know that holding can be called on every play. But the refs chose that one? hmmmm

That holding could be called on every play is irrelevant. And this is a nice backtrack from calling it a phantom hold too.The guy held him...admitted it...the ref called it...the video and pictures show it.It was a great play by Chicago and caught us with our pants down and we were lucky to have it overturned by the guy committing a penalty.So again...where is my bias in this? Because Im a Packer fan, those other facts mean nothing now?Hilarious.Just as you tried to blame everyone's bias in the QB thread (eventhough the majority of people in there were not just Packer fans bashing Brady or anything).

 

[sho nuff]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZiFiaM4HDpMWatchLearnLeave

That video is clearly a packer fan and biased.I think a packer fan made the camera that took it too.

 

[benson_will_lead_the_way]

I'm a Bears fan, not fanatic, which means i'm not biased.

It was a hold by Corey Graham and negated a great play.

The irony is that Graham is only on the Bears roster for his good special teams play

 

[sho nuff]

I'm a Bears fan, not fanatic, which means i'm not biased.

It was a hold by Corey Graham and negated a great play.

The irony is that Graham is only on the Bears roster for his good special teams play

Despite the rest of the post which is spot on...that first line is the funniest thing I have read today.

 

[JuSt CuZ]

the phantom holding on the awesome punt return in Chicago

You mean the call that is shown by video and still images and the guy guilty of it admitted that he did hold Bush going down the field?That one?

LOL, please it was yet another horrible call. But I'm sure your objective as a Packers fan who watched your team, current champs, get outsmarted.

They did get outsmarted and Bush would not likely have even made the play.Does not mean there was not a hold.

As a member of the Chicago Bears, I guess Corey Graham (the guy called for the hold) is biased now since he admitted he held him right?

The images and video of him holding Bush are biased too...camera guy must have been a Packers fan for capturing that.

Yup, your a Packers fan alright.If your a football fan, which I assume you are...you know that holding can be called on every play. But the refs chose that one? hmmmm

That holding could be called on every play is irrelevant. And this is a nice backtrack from calling it a phantom hold too.The guy held him...admitted it...the ref called it...the video and pictures show it.

It was a great play by Chicago and caught us with our pants down and we were lucky to have it overturned by the guy committing a penalty.

So again...where is my bias in this? Because Im a Packer fan, those other facts mean nothing now?

Hilarious.

Just as you tried to blame everyone's bias in the QB thread (eventhough the majority of people in there were not just Packer fans bashing Brady or anything).

Sure it is, cuz it dont help make your point.And no, its still phantom as I would not call that a hold. But hopefully you realize i'm talking in the contect that you consider it a hold. lol, I love people with no argument as a bias fan so the twist your words....I love it!

Also, I'm not bias as, I hate both teams.

so its fair to say, I'm objective...and you are not, infact you are one of the most bias Packers fan on this board.

 

[B-Deep]

the phantom holding on the awesome punt return in Chicago

You mean the call that is shown by video and still images and the guy guilty of it admitted that he did hold Bush going down the field?That one?

LOL, please it was yet another horrible call. But I'm sure your objective as a Packers fan who watched your team, current champs, get outsmarted.

They did get outsmarted and Bush would not likely have even made the play.Does not mean there was not a hold.

As a member of the Chicago Bears, I guess Corey Graham (the guy called for the hold) is biased now since he admitted he held him right?

The images and video of him holding Bush are biased too...camera guy must have been a Packers fan for capturing that.

Yup, your a Packers fan alright.If your a football fan, which I assume you are...you know that holding can be called on every play. But the refs chose that one? hmmmm

That holding could be called on every play is irrelevant. And this is a nice backtrack from calling it a phantom hold too.The guy held him...admitted it...the ref called it...the video and pictures show it.

It was a great play by Chicago and caught us with our pants down and we were lucky to have it overturned by the guy committing a penalty.

So again...where is my bias in this? Because Im a Packer fan, those other facts mean nothing now?

Hilarious.

Just as you tried to blame everyone's bias in the QB thread (eventhough the majority of people in there were not just Packer fans bashing Brady or anything).

Sure it is, cuz it dont help make your point.And no, its still phantom as I would not call that a hold. But hopefully you realize i'm talking in the contect that you consider it a hold. lol, I love people with no argument as a bias fan so the twist your words....I love it!

Also, I'm not bias as, I hate both teams.

so its fair to say, I'm objective...and you are not, infact you are one of the most bias Packers fan on this board.

you're an alias right?at the very least this is shtick you are running

I am not saying I disapprove, I just want to be clear is all

 

[sho nuff]

the phantom holding on the awesome punt return in Chicago

You mean the call that is shown by video and still images and the guy guilty of it admitted that he did hold Bush going down the field?That one?

LOL, please it was yet another horrible call. But I'm sure your objective as a Packers fan who watched your team, current champs, get outsmarted.

They did get outsmarted and Bush would not likely have even made the play.Does not mean there was not a hold.

As a member of the Chicago Bears, I guess Corey Graham (the guy called for the hold) is biased now since he admitted he held him right?

The images and video of him holding Bush are biased too...camera guy must have been a Packers fan for capturing that.

Yup, your a Packers fan alright.If your a football fan, which I assume you are...you know that holding can be called on every play. But the refs chose that one? hmmmm

That holding could be called on every play is irrelevant. And this is a nice backtrack from calling it a phantom hold too.The guy held him...admitted it...the ref called it...the video and pictures show it.

It was a great play by Chicago and caught us with our pants down and we were lucky to have it overturned by the guy committing a penalty.

So again...where is my bias in this? Because Im a Packer fan, those other facts mean nothing now?

Hilarious.

Just as you tried to blame everyone's bias in the QB thread (eventhough the majority of people in there were not just Packer fans bashing Brady or anything).

Sure it is, cuz it dont help make your point.And no, its still phantom as I would not call that a hold. But hopefully you realize i'm talking in the contect that you consider it a hold. lol, I love people with no argument as a bias fan so the twist your words....I love it!

Also, I'm not bias as, I hate both teams.

so its fair to say, I'm objective...and you are not, infact you are one of the most bias Packers fan on this board.

Actually...it is irrelevant because what one ref calls in another game has no bearing on that play whatsoever.It does nothing to my point at all.

That you would not call it a hold does not make it phantom.

Im talking in the context that the guy grabbed the defender and pulled on him and the ref threw a flag. The the offending party admitted to it. That even a Bears fan admitted to it.

The only one without an argument here is you...and who is twisting words.

Phantom call does not mean a call that you joe schmo personally would not call.

You may be objective...but you don't have a grasp of the rules whatsoever.

Great...Im a biased Packer fan...does not change the facts of this call.

 

[DesmondBishop]

the phantom holding on the awesome punt return in Chicago

You mean the call that is shown by video and still images and the guy guilty of it admitted that he did hold Bush going down the field?That one?

LOL, please it was yet another horrible call. But I'm sure your objective as a Packers fan who watched your team, current champs, get outsmarted.

They did get outsmarted and Bush would not likely have even made the play.Does not mean there was not a hold.As a member of the Chicago Bears, I guess Corey Graham (the guy called for the hold) is biased now since he admitted he held him right?The images and video of him holding Bush are biased too...camera guy must have been a Packers fan for capturing that.

Yup, your a Packers fan alright.If your a football fan, which I assume you are...you know that holding can be called on every play. But the refs chose that one? hmmmm

As a Packer fan I agree the call was weak (I saw the replay and there was a hold, and yes it can be called on every play) and we as well as the rest of the world were completely fooled on that play, the result makes that obvious. But your schtick on it somehow being a conspiracy is stupid, and makes the rest of your argument harder to accept. The tackle on Ware and the lame PF on the hit on Moss were terrible though. But I have watched football for the past 40+ years and there have ALWAYS been bad calls or missed calls, it is no different now, it's just more obvious due to superior camera's and more of them at each game and HDness.

 

[renesauz]

the phantom holding on the awesome punt return in Chicago

You mean the call that is shown by video and still images and the guy guilty of it admitted that he did hold Bush going down the field?That one?

LOL, please it was yet another horrible call. But I'm sure your objective as a Packers fan who watched your team, current champs, get outsmarted.

They did get outsmarted and Bush would not likely have even made the play.Does not mean there was not a hold.As a member of the Chicago Bears, I guess Corey Graham (the guy called for the hold) is biased now since he admitted he held him right?The images and video of him holding Bush are biased too...camera guy must have been a Packers fan for capturing that.

Yup, your a Packers fan alright.If your a football fan, which I assume you are...you know that holding can be called on every play. But the refs chose that one? hmmmm

Minor holds which have ZERO bearing on the outcome of a play should be ignored. Holds should have an EFFECT in order to be called. (Sort of how a pass has to be at least remotely catchable in order to call PI....if the ball is 10 yards out of bounds PI is supposed to be waived off.)

 

[JuSt CuZ]

the phantom holding on the awesome punt return in Chicago

You mean the call that is shown by video and still images and the guy guilty of it admitted that he did hold Bush going down the field?That one?

LOL, please it was yet another horrible call. But I'm sure your objective as a Packers fan who watched your team, current champs, get outsmarted.

They did get outsmarted and Bush would not likely have even made the play.Does not mean there was not a hold.As a member of the Chicago Bears, I guess Corey Graham (the guy called for the hold) is biased now since he admitted he held him right?The images and video of him holding Bush are biased too...camera guy must have been a Packers fan for capturing that.

Yup, your a Packers fan alright.If your a football fan, which I assume you are...you know that holding can be called on every play. But the refs chose that one? hmmmm

As a Packer fan I agree the call was weak (I saw the replay and there was a hold, and yes it can be called on every play) and we as well as the rest of the world were completely fooled on that play, the result makes that obvious. But your schtick on it somehow being a conspiracy is stupid, and makes the rest of your argument harder to accept. The tackle on Ware and the lame PF on the hit on Moss were terrible though. But I have watched football for the past 40+ years and there have ALWAYS been bad calls or missed calls, it is no different now, it's just more obvious due to superior camera's and more of them at each game and HDness.

Nope, cuz conspiracies never ever happen. Not in life, in politics, or even sports. your right.and no, its no schtick, it is my strong opinion. I dont kiss ### and never plan too, you hear exactly what my football thoughts are.

 

[Stinkin Ref]

the phantom holding on the awesome punt return in Chicago

You mean the call that is shown by video and still images and the guy guilty of it admitted that he did hold Bush going down the field?That one?

LOL, please it was yet another horrible call. But I'm sure your objective as a Packers fan who watched your team, current champs, get outsmarted.

They did get outsmarted and Bush would not likely have even made the play.Does not mean there was not a hold.As a member of the Chicago Bears, I guess Corey Graham (the guy called for the hold) is biased now since he admitted he held him right?The images and video of him holding Bush are biased too...camera guy must have been a Packers fan for capturing that.

Yup, your a Packers fan alright.If your a football fan, which I assume you are...you know that holding can be called on every play. But the refs chose that one? hmmmm

Minor holds which have ZERO bearing on the outcome of a play should be ignored. Holds should have an EFFECT in order to be called.

hold the bus....when a ref sees an infraction like this especially at this point in time (right after the snap)....he has no idea ultimately what impact that infraction will have on the rest of the play......he can't wait for the punt to be taken back to the hizzy and then all of a sudden go back and drop a flag where the infraction happened 15 seconds earlier.....this type of "holding" call (special teams) is a little bit different than a holding call at the point of attck on a run or something.....there is no way to know how much this impacts the play (slows him down, unable to take a good angle, not make the tackle, etc)....it's not black and white....if you start asking referees to start entering/processing their PERSONAL opinions on whether an infraction will ultimately directly effect the outcome of a play, you will be bringing in the very things we want to keep out of the game when it comes to our officials......

 

[JuSt CuZ]

the phantom holding on the awesome punt return in Chicago

You mean the call that is shown by video and still images and the guy guilty of it admitted that he did hold Bush going down the field?That one?

LOL, please it was yet another horrible call. But I'm sure your objective as a Packers fan who watched your team, current champs, get outsmarted.

They did get outsmarted and Bush would not likely have even made the play.Does not mean there was not a hold.As a member of the Chicago Bears, I guess Corey Graham (the guy called for the hold) is biased now since he admitted he held him right?The images and video of him holding Bush are biased too...camera guy must have been a Packers fan for capturing that.

Yup, your a Packers fan alright.If your a football fan, which I assume you are...you know that holding can be called on every play. But the refs chose that one? hmmmm

Minor holds which have ZERO bearing on the outcome of a play should be ignored. Holds should have an EFFECT in order to be called.

hold the bus....when a ref sees an infraction like this especially at this point in time (right after the snap)....he has no idea ultimately what impact that infraction will have on the rest of the play......he can't wait for the punt to be taken back to the hizzy and then all of a sudden go back and drop a flag where the infraction happened 15 seconds earlier.....this type of "holding" call (special teams) is a little bit different than a holding call at the point of attck on a run or something.....there is no way to know how much this impacts the play (slows him down, unable to take a good angle, not make the tackle, etc)....it's not black and white....if you start asking referees to start entering/processing their PERSONAL opinions on whether an infraction will ultimately directly effect the outcome of a play, you will be bringing in the very things we want to keep out of the game when it comes to our officials......

Indeed, this is true.But, I still have no respect for any referee in any sport at this time since the basketball ref gambling issue. As I do believe officials are involved in crooked actions more than ever, the economy hurts everyones pockets.NOT SAYING THIS IS THE CASE IN ANY SITUATION INVOLVED IN THIS THREAD..............But why would the mob get to the Bball ref, but not a bigger sport like the NFL?Example of how qucik it could happen. "Hey ref, make sure the Jets lose, or you will lose your family."You know, your right, that dont seem easy at all.Full disclosure: I'm a realist.

 

[B-Deep]

you keep keepin it real JuSt CuZ

 

[Stinkin Ref]

just cuz...if you want to go through the rest of your sports viewing life believing that every sport is some how corupt and that there is some reason behind every controversial call....then so be it....call it keeping it real or whatever you want....

personally I like to look at it the other way....I would like to believe that in our major sports 98% of the officials are on the up and up...and that there are things in place to address the issue you brought up (threaten family)....I would like to believe that 98% of the officials would report such an encounter....

I also believe that 98% of the general public is CLUELESS as to what it takes to be an official at the professional level and all of the things that go into it.....in most of our professional sports every play/call these guys make is evalauted and graded....especially football....is it impossible for someone to slip through with bad intentions and directly effect the outcome of a game?.....no.....but I like to believe that 98% of the guys putting on the stripes are pretty solid when it comes to integrity and ethics, and very few of them would ever eevn consider jeapordizing all of the work they have put in to getting graded out high enough along the way to get the privilidge of working at the highest level.....

most of the guys you see on TV in any sport started out in high school or summer rec ball....sweating it out paying their dues....move on to college, ####ty road trips and schedules.....affecting their family life....attending COUNTLESS meetings, trainings, seminars, often working for free at training camps, etc....most of them aren't going to disrespect the game they have put so much time in to and love....

 

[B-Deep]

just cuz...if you want to go through the rest of your sports viewing life believing that every sport is some how corupt and that there is some reason behind every controversial call....then so be it....call it keeping it real or whatever you want....personally I like to look at it the other way....I would like to believe that in our major sports 98% of the officials are on the up and up...and that there are things in place to address the issue you brought up (threaten family)....I would like to believe that 98% of the officials would report such an encounter....I also believe that 98% of the general public is CLUELESS as to what it takes to be an official at the professional level and all of the things that go into it.....in most of our professional sports every play/call these guys make is evalauted and graded....especially football....is it impossible for someone to slip through with bad intentions and directly effect the outcome of a game?.....no.....but I like to believe that 98% of the guys putting on the stripes are pretty solid when it comes to integrity and ethics, and very few of them would ever eevn consider jeapordizing all of the work they have put in to getting graded out high enough along the way to get the privilidge of working at the highest level.....most of the guys you see on TV in any sport started out in high school or summer rec ball....sweating it out paying their dues....move on to college, ####ty road trips and schedules.....affecting their family life....attending COUNTLESS meetings, trainings, seminars, often working for free at training camps, etc....most of them aren't going to disrespect the game they have put so much time in to and love....

obviously you have a personal bias JuSt CuZ is just a realist

 

[Warrior]

Just Cuz has jumped the shark

lame.

 

[sho nuff]

Minor holds which have ZERO bearing on the outcome of a play should be ignored. Holds should have an EFFECT in order to be called. (Sort of how a pass has to be at least remotely catchable in order to call PI....if the ball is 10 yards out of bounds PI is supposed to be waived off.)

Then change the NFL rule book...but the opinion that it should have been ignored does not make it a phantom call.

 

[Limp Ditka]

Just Cuz has jumped the shark lame.

Jumping the shark insinuates that, at one time, there was some perceived value.

 

[delusional]

Blame the NFL mainly for starting to enforce all kinds of rules each season or half way thru a season. The refs seem like they have no idea what to call anymore for some things.

Vick gets smacked with a helmet in his face after already throwing the football & nothing is called. Maclin got launched at by Dunta Robinson & should have been ejected but wasn't. Then you have QBs getting smacked in the helmet by a hand when the defender is trying to shield the pass...15 yards.

There seems to be a holding call on nearly every return now yet some DEs get abused by OTs with holding but nothing is called.

Just a bad time for refs and the nfl with trying to enforce stricter rule changes

 

[JuSt CuZ]

Just Cuz has jumped the shark lame.

LOL, I know I'm taking an extreme stance on some issues involving officials in sports, but you all can believe what you like, I believe their is more curruption then people obviously like to believe. Just like politics, we all know its going on, but dont like to admit it...its much to easier to just believe the guy making the assumptions of reality is out of his mind.A President of the United States being crooked? never...oh wait, Nixon.A media outlet setting up stories to make headlines? get out of here you conspiracy theroist...wait, Fox Sports.A Referee in Basketball making bad calls because he is a gambler, your insane get out of here....wait again, Tim DonaghyBut crooked Referees in football....yup I'm just out of my mind, that could never ever happen.Man your right, I'm out of my mind for thinking its possible. lolETA: I'm not saying every ref in ever league, but I am saying some refs in every league.

 

[renesauz]

hold the bus....when a ref sees an infraction like this especially at this point in time (right after the snap)....he has no idea ultimately what impact that infraction will have on the rest of the play......he can't wait for the punt to be taken back to the hizzy and then all of a sudden go back and drop a flag where the infraction happened 15 seconds earlier.....this type of "holding" call (special teams) is a little bit different than a holding call at the point of attck on a run or something.....there is no way to know how much this impacts the play (slows him down, unable to take a good angle, not make the tackle, etc)....it's not black and white....if you start asking referees to start entering/processing their PERSONAL opinions on whether an infraction will ultimately directly effect the outcome of a play, you will be bringing in the very things we want to keep out of the game when it comes to our officials......

Sorry....but I'm suggesting the same EXACT same standard be used. When in doubt, call the penalty. TONS of PI penalties go down when in slo-mo replay it seems unlikely the receiver would have caught the ball. If the flag is on the opposite side of the field from the ball, and the person held is a 320 pound lineman, it's generally pretty obvious that the lineman would never have caught the 200 pound 4.30 WR returning the ball anyway. Holding is illegal...call it if there's even a 3% chance it affected the outcome of the play. But when that chance is 0%...don't call it. Most holding calls now have at least that 3%...a handful (like the one on Chicago's punt return) don't. Just like on the few PI plays where they wave off the foul, the ref can certainly drop the flag immediately and later decide the hold was no factor on the play, just like they occassionaly do on PI. Refs make judgement calls ALL THE TIME. Whether a block even qualifies as a hold is often a judgement call...so I don't see how this extra, relatively small element of judgement (that they can take their time with!)would make refs jobs all that much harder.

 

[renesauz]

just cuz...if you want to go through the rest of your sports viewing life believing that every sport is some how corupt and that there is some reason behind every controversial call....then so be it....call it keeping it real or whatever you want....personally I like to look at it the other way....I would like to believe that in our major sports 98% of the officials are on the up and up...and that there are things in place to address the issue you brought up (threaten family)....I would like to believe that 98% of the officials would report such an encounter....I also believe that 98% of the general public is CLUELESS as to what it takes to be an official at the professional level and all of the things that go into it.....in most of our professional sports every play/call these guys make is evalauted and graded....especially football....is it impossible for someone to slip through with bad intentions and directly effect the outcome of a game?.....no.....but I like to believe that 98% of the guys putting on the stripes are pretty solid when it comes to integrity and ethics, and very few of them would ever eevn consider jeapordizing all of the work they have put in to getting graded out high enough along the way to get the privilidge of working at the highest level.....most of the guys you see on TV in any sport started out in high school or summer rec ball....sweating it out paying their dues....move on to college, ####ty road trips and schedules.....affecting their family life....attending COUNTLESS meetings, trainings, seminars, often working for free at training camps, etc....most of them aren't going to disrespect the game they have put so much time in to and love....

We can agree with this. I don't agree with some of the philosophies being used in the NFL (which are being dictated by the league, not the refs themselves), but I'm not one to suggest that the job is an easy one at all. I think the refs generally do a pretty solid job...and could easily and professionaly handle the (actually very minor) change I suggested in the way holding penalites are called. (IE: The holding call wasn't bad...the philosophy which required the holding call is.)

 

[death of the cool]

I think it is a perfect storm of badly written rules, poor refs, and maybe some bias or corruption.

Last night on the defenseless WR.....How is the Cowboy hit any different than the hit Landry had on the Cowboy WR on the sideline? Neither led with the head...both were in the chest of a WR that has not come down to protect themselves...Inconsistent calls like this lead to talks of conspiracies and fraud.

Some of it is the way calls are written...the whole TD catch rule last year where Calvin had an obvious TD taken away was horrible....it gives too much room for interpretation, and the more subjective a rule is leads to refs judgement...which leads to either poor decisions or bias.

The one that really blew me away was the hold on Ware. How was that just missed? When things like that happen it screams that something fishy is going on.

BTW....Demarcus Ware, one of the premiere pash rushers in the NFL, has evidently not been held all season....since not one offensive holding call has been called on a player lined up against him. I think I would be on the phone with the NFL if I was Garrett.

 

[JuSt CuZ]

just cuz...if you want to go through the rest of your sports viewing life believing that every sport is some how corupt and that there is some reason behind every controversial call....then so be it....call it keeping it real or whatever you want....personally I like to look at it the other way....I would like to believe that in our major sports 98% of the officials are on the up and up...and that there are things in place to address the issue you brought up (threaten family)....I would like to believe that 98% of the officials would report such an encounter....I also believe that 98% of the general public is CLUELESS as to what it takes to be an official at the professional level and all of the things that go into it.....in most of our professional sports every play/call these guys make is evalauted and graded....especially football....is it impossible for someone to slip through with bad intentions and directly effect the outcome of a game?.....no.....but I like to believe that 98% of the guys putting on the stripes are pretty solid when it comes to integrity and ethics, and very few of them would ever eevn consider jeapordizing all of the work they have put in to getting graded out high enough along the way to get the privilidge of working at the highest level.....most of the guys you see on TV in any sport started out in high school or summer rec ball....sweating it out paying their dues....move on to college, ####ty road trips and schedules.....affecting their family life....attending COUNTLESS meetings, trainings, seminars, often working for free at training camps, etc....most of them aren't going to disrespect the game they have put so much time in to and love....

Whoa now, I did say "Some", not all.I was just pointing out that it does exist, to not believe so is naive.

 

[Stinkin Ref]

just cuz...if you want to go through the rest of your sports viewing life believing that every sport is some how corupt and that there is some reason behind every controversial call....then so be it....call it keeping it real or whatever you want....

personally I like to look at it the other way....I would like to believe that in our major sports 98% of the officials are on the up and up...and that there are things in place to address the issue you brought up (threaten family)....I would like to believe that 98% of the officials would report such an encounter....

I also believe that 98% of the general public is CLUELESS as to what it takes to be an official at the professional level and all of the things that go into it.....in most of our professional sports every play/call these guys make is evalauted and graded....especially football....is it impossible for someone to slip through with bad intentions and directly effect the outcome of a game?.....no.....but I like to believe that 98% of the guys putting on the stripes are pretty solid when it comes to integrity and ethics, and very few of them would ever eevn consider jeapordizing all of the work they have put in to getting graded out high enough along the way to get the privilidge of working at the highest level.....

most of the guys you see on TV in any sport started out in high school or summer rec ball....sweating it out paying their dues....move on to college, ####ty road trips and schedules.....affecting their family life....attending COUNTLESS meetings, trainings, seminars, often working for free at training camps, etc....most of them aren't going to disrespect the game they have put so much time in to and love....

Whoa now, I did say "Some", not all.I was just pointing out that it does exist, to not believe so is naive.

But, I still have no respect for any referee in any sport at this time since the basketball ref gambling issue. As I do believe officials are involved in crooked actions more than ever, the economy hurts everyones pockets.

 

[JuSt CuZ]

just cuz...if you want to go through the rest of your sports viewing life believing that every sport is some how corupt and that there is some reason behind every controversial call....then so be it....call it keeping it real or whatever you want....

personally I like to look at it the other way....I would like to believe that in our major sports 98% of the officials are on the up and up...and that there are things in place to address the issue you brought up (threaten family)....I would like to believe that 98% of the officials would report such an encounter....

I also believe that 98% of the general public is CLUELESS as to what it takes to be an official at the professional level and all of the things that go into it.....in most of our professional sports every play/call these guys make is evalauted and graded....especially football....is it impossible for someone to slip through with bad intentions and directly effect the outcome of a game?.....no.....but I like to believe that 98% of the guys putting on the stripes are pretty solid when it comes to integrity and ethics, and very few of them would ever eevn consider jeapordizing all of the work they have put in to getting graded out high enough along the way to get the privilidge of working at the highest level.....

most of the guys you see on TV in any sport started out in high school or summer rec ball....sweating it out paying their dues....move on to college, ####ty road trips and schedules.....affecting their family life....attending COUNTLESS meetings, trainings, seminars, often working for free at training camps, etc....most of them aren't going to disrespect the game they have put so much time in to and love....

Whoa now, I did say "Some", not all.I was just pointing out that it does exist, to not believe so is naive.

But, I still have no respect for any referee in any sport at this time since the basketball ref gambling issue. As I do believe officials are involved in crooked actions more than ever, the economy hurts everyones pockets.

Having no respect for an official dont really mean that they are crooked, correct. It means that I think the officials are just not good enough, they miss to many calls, I think most referees have their own interest in mine on the football field. Maybe they dont like a player, maybe they are a childhood fan, who knows...but when I think crooked, I think the "Gamblers" doing it for money reasons.

 

[Mello]

I agree most refs are on the up and up. Many are incompetent on the professional level though. What are fans supposed to think when they see the same refs year in and year out who blow calls? If leagues would make their rules clear and then hold their refs publicly accountable for their actions, fans would have much more respect.

 

[sho nuff]

LOL at all the couch refs acting as if they could do anything better.

The game moves pretty freaking fast people...they will not get everything just right.

And even when they do, people will whine about it for days (see the hold on the punt return as an example of that).