REF's 12 Teamer Discussion Thread.... (1 Viewer)

[Stinkin Ref]

All right boys.  I couldn't figure out how to redo a random draft order, so we are rolling with the random one that was already kind of rolled out there.  I did this cause I'm kind of bored and figured it would give us something to do with no sports, plus I wanted to get an early idea on how 12 teamers might look since that is what most of my home leagues are.

I'll take another look and make sure I didn't miss anything....if you seem something or have suggestions, let me know......otherwise

OZ is on the clock...................

@-OZ-

@Duckboy

@Stephen Holloway

@Crippler

 

[-OZ-]

Are we allowed to trade?

 

[Stinkin Ref]

Are we allowed to trade?

I would like to say yes.....but I'm not sure if MFL allows you to do this with "free draft and done" leagues.....does anybody know how this might work...?

 

[-OZ-]

Draft has not been scheduled yet. 

System won't let me draft

 

[Stinkin Ref]

@-OZ-   just realized I needed to turn the draft on......you should be good to go now...

 

[Stinkin Ref]

Draft has not been scheduled yet. 

System won't let me draft

lol...fixed....try again

 

[Stinkin Ref]

@Stephen Holloway

@Mr. Irrelevant

@BassNBrew

you guys still need to link in to the league

 

[-OZ-]

@Stephen Holloway otc

 

[rzrback77]

same old same old for the first three picks

considered Dalvin Cook, but went with A. Kamara because as a Mississippian, the Saints are on every week and love to watch Brees and the Boys play on Sundays!

Michael Thomas at #5 makes two Saints in a row and then my other consideration Dalvin Cook at #6.

 

[-OZ-]

same old same old for the first three picks

considered Dalvin Cook, but went with A. Kamara because as a Mississippian, the Saints are on every week and love to watch Brees and the Boys play on Sundays!

Michael Thomas at #5 makes two Saints in a row and then my other consideration Dalvin Cook at #6.

I was slightly concerned about a change at QB, but then saw was the guy.  Keeps CMC the obvious pick. 

 

[Stinkin Ref]

Was informed I may need to revisit the defensive scoring before we get too deep into this.  I may have gone a little crazy, apparently some of the DST’s wold have outscored some pretty good players.  May dial it back a little.

 

[Shadowfax]

Was informed I may need to revisit the defensive scoring before we get too deep into this.  I may have gone a little crazy, apparently some of the DST’s wold have outscored some pretty good players.  May dial it back a little.

8 of the top 14 players are defenses. And the Wash DST outscored Julio an Hopkins. What's wrong with that? lol

Kickers look to be jacked a bit high also. You're giving 3 pts per FG made PLUS the 3-6 pt distance bonus? So a 40yd FG is 7 points?

 

[BassNBrew]

Was informed I may need to revisit the defensive scoring before we get too deep into this.  I may have gone a little crazy, apparently some of the DST’s wold have outscored some pretty good players.  May dial it back a little.

Well I already drafted based on this so you better decide quick.

 

[OldMilwaukee]

Looks like myself and btswb dropped Hopkins down our boards,  falling from WR3 to WR5.

My thought is that there might be something unknown going on with him for the Texans to move him..........to much uncertainty for the WR3.   Take a more safe guy (Hill). 

Of course,  I am likely wrong!

 

[-OZ-]

Looks like myself and btswb dropped Hopkins down our boards,  falling from WR3 to WR5.

My thought is that there might be something unknown going on with him for the Texans to move him..........to much uncertainty for the WR3.   Take a more safe guy (Hill). 

Of course,  I am likely wrong!

3 to 5 is almost too conservative a fall IMO if you think there's something else going on. Watson to Murray alone drops him a couple slots. 

 

[rzrback77]

Looks like myself and btswb dropped Hopkins down our boards,  falling from WR3 to WR5.

My thought is that there might be something unknown going on with him for the Texans to move him..........to much uncertainty for the WR3.   Take a more safe guy (Hill). 

Of course,  I am likely wrong!

Just chuckled a bit at Hill, the safe guy.

 

[bro1ncos]

3 to 5 is almost too conservative a fall IMO if you think there's something else going on. Watson to Murray alone drops him a couple slots. 

I think this is somewhat counter balanced from a more wide open offense in Arizona compared to a more conservative O'Brien offense in Houston. Plus I expect a nice bump in production from Murray in year 2.

 

[-OZ-]

I think this is somewhat counter balanced from a more wide open offense in Arizona compared to a more conservative O'Brien offense in Houston. Plus I expect a nice bump in production from Murray in year 2.

That's why I wouldn't drop him further. 

If you think Murray is going to be better this year than Watson was in the past, don't drop nuk at all. 

 

[-OZ-]

8 of the top 14 players are defenses. And the Wash DST outscored Julio an Hopkins. What's wrong with that? lol

Kickers look to be jacked a bit high also. You're giving 3 pts per FG made PLUS the 3-6 pt distance bonus? So a 40yd FG is 7 points?

Are we changing scoring or do I need to draft back to back defenses? 

 

[Stinkin Ref]

I’ll make a couple minor adjustments to DST in a minute and post them in here.....but you can only start two......and really if someone has the confidence to be a DST guru in March.....go for it I guess in the early rounds......what the heck.....

and there were no intentions to have PK be that crazy where a 40 yarder is worth 7 points....not sure whats going on there...it was supposed to be 

39 or below 3

40-49 4

50 -59 5

60+ 6

 

[Stinkin Ref]

OK....on DST all I did was get rid of punt return and kick return yards......and on PK it should be good now as i removed the "all FG's made" tab.....I really don't see anything crazy on DST below.....if your DST shuts somebody out (which doesn't happen often) you get 15....other than that it pretty basic.....I did make safeties worth 4 because they are huge plays considering you get 2 points and then also your team gets the ball back.....those are huge plays in real football so felt they should be worth more in fantasy......gave two points for all turnovers (standard) and also gave two points for blocked punts/kicks as those are also huge plays in real football....please look below and let me know if you really think anything is out of whack on DST....I'm open to suggestions as this is my first go around here

RULES FOR DEF (EDIT)
EVENT    RANGE (LOW-HIGH)    POINTS    EDIT?    TEST?
Special Teams Points Against plus Offensive Points Against    0-0    15      
Special Teams Points Against plus Offensive Points Against    1-10    10       
Special Teams Points Against plus Offensive Points Against    11-20    5        
Special Teams Points Against plus Offensive Points Against    21-30    0      
Special Teams Points Against plus Offensive Points Against    31-99    -5        
Fumble Recoveries (from Opponent)    0-10    2 points each    
Fumble Recoveries on Special Teams    0-10    2 points each    
Interceptions Caught    0-10    2 points each    
Blocked Field Goals    0-10    2 points each    
Blocked Punts    0-10    2 points each   
Blocked Extra Points    0-10    2 points each    
Sacked a QB    0-25    1.5 points each   
Safeties    0-10    4 points each   
Total Net Yards Allowed    -100-199    12    
Total Net Yards Allowed    200-299    9    
Total Net Yards Allowed    300-399    6    
Total Net Yards Allowed    400-499    3    
Safeties for 1 Point    0-10    2 points each    
Number of Defensive & Special Teams TDs    0-10    6 points each    

 

[-OZ-]

Team Oz

RB: CMC, Sanders

I don't generally take 2 running backs this early, but I think Sanders is going to be very good in PPR going forward. 

TE: Andrews

With the TE flex, I'll get one early after missing out in wsl. 

 

[OldMilwaukee]

OK....on DST all I did was get rid of punt return and kick return yards......and on PK it should be good now as i removed the "all FG's made" tab.....I really don't see anything crazy on DST below.....if your DST shuts somebody out (which doesn't happen often) you get 15....other than that it pretty basic.....I did make safeties worth 4 because they are huge plays considering you get 2 points and then also your team gets the ball back.....those are huge plays in real football so felt they should be worth more in fantasy......gave two points for all turnovers (standard) and also gave two points for blocked punts/kicks as those are also huge plays in real football....please look below and let me know if you really think anything is out of whack on DST....I'm open to suggestions as this is my first go around here

RULES FOR DEF (EDIT)
EVENT    RANGE (LOW-HIGH)    POINTS    EDIT?    TEST?
Special Teams Points Against plus Offensive Points Against    0-0    15      
Special Teams Points Against plus Offensive Points Against    1-10    10       
Special Teams Points Against plus Offensive Points Against    11-20    5        
Special Teams Points Against plus Offensive Points Against    21-30    0      
Special Teams Points Against plus Offensive Points Against    31-99    -5        
Fumble Recoveries (from Opponent)    0-10    2 points each    
Fumble Recoveries on Special Teams    0-10    2 points each    
Interceptions Caught    0-10    2 points each    
Blocked Field Goals    0-10    2 points each    
Blocked Punts    0-10    2 points each   
Blocked Extra Points    0-10    2 points each    
Sacked a QB    0-25    1.5 points each   
Safeties    0-10    4 points each   
Total Net Yards Allowed    -100-199    12    
Total Net Yards Allowed    200-299    9    
Total Net Yards Allowed    300-399    6    
Total Net Yards Allowed    400-499    3    
Safeties for 1 Point    0-10    2 points each    
Number of Defensive & Special Teams TDs    0-10    6 points each    

UNDER THESE RULES LAST YEAR:

Patriots, New England NEP Def
at Dolphins Sun 1:00 p.m. ET
NEP 43, 012.002 Defensive/Special Teams TDs

8.004 Interceptions

10.507 Sacked a QB

15.000 Special Teams Points Against plus Offensive Points Against

12.00184 Total Net Yards Allowed

57.50Subtotal

 

[OldMilwaukee]

Top 32 scoring last year under these rules.

20 QB's

10 DEF

1WR

1RB

 

[Stinkin Ref]

UNDER THESE RULES LAST YEAR:

Patriots, New England NEP Def
at Dolphins Sun 1:00 p.m. ET
NEP 43, 012.002 Defensive/Special Teams TDs

8.004 Interceptions

10.507 Sacked a QB

15.000 Special Teams Points Against plus Offensive Points Against

12.00184 Total Net Yards Allowed

57.50Subtotal

that was definitely one of the best defensive performances in fantasy history....

 

[Stinkin Ref]

@OldMilwaukee.....I guess I would ask what about the DST scoring would you change....?...you gave the most extreme example possible, but didn't say what you thought was really out of whack....

lot of our leagues don't use the yardage category.....but why not, so I used it....gave an extra half point for a sack....doubled for the rare safety and thats about it....

I guess with 25 roster spots we will see how valuable guys think they are even though only a max of 2 can start....

 

[rzrback77]

Going to be a bit of a delay, out with my wife for her first PT and then lunch before going home. Need to review scoring as I see the differences Re more substantial than I thought.

 

[OldMilwaukee]

@OldMilwaukee.....I guess I would ask what about the DST scoring would you change....?...you gave the most extreme example possible, but didn't say what you thought was really out of whack....

lot of our leagues don't use the yardage category.....but why not, so I used it....gave an extra half point for a sack....doubled for the rare safety and thats about it....

I guess with 25 roster spots we will see how valuable guys think they are even though only a max of 2 can start....

imo POINTS AGAINST and YARD ALLOWED reflect the same statistical performance (good defense) and is double dipping. 

However the same argument can be also made for PPR in general. 

Just don't want the rules to change once I take two defenses at the turn! 

 

[Shadowfax]

@OldMilwaukee.....I guess I would ask what about the DST scoring would you change....?...you gave the most extreme example possible, but didn't say what you thought was really out of whack....

lot of our leagues don't use the yardage category.....but why not, so I used it....gave an extra half point for a sack....doubled for the rare safety and thats about it....

I guess with 25 roster spots we will see how valuable guys think they are even though only a max of 2 can start....

From a total points perspective, WR12 an RB12 are now being equated to DST25. Just seems off. 

I'm fine with making the defenses more relevant and adding the yardage category but maybe reduce those points and the points against a bit?

DST is so random year to year. Right now it seems someone can win the league by a lucky random NE/SF pick like last year. You're more than doubling the scoring from the SLs. Maybe there's a happy medium somewhere?

Or since we've started and we know the rules, we have to adapt to the DST run next round.  

 

[rzrback77]

From a total points perspective, WR12 an RB12 are now being equated to DST25. Just seems off. 

I'm fine with making the defenses more relevant and adding the yardage category but maybe reduce those points and the points against a bit?

DST is so random year to year. Right now it seems someone can win the league by a lucky random NE/SF pick like last year. You're more than doubling the scoring from the SLs. Maybe there's a happy medium somewhere?

Or since we've started and we know the rules, we have to adapt to the DST run next round.  

Concur to reduce DST scoring BEFORE any are drafted.

 

[Stinkin Ref]

Suck it up buttercups.....step outside the box....its something different......you’ll be ok....test your drafting abilities....adjust....draft em early....draft em late....don’t draft em at all...take 2.....take 8....whatever trips your trigger....if you think its just luck late, then everybody can just take em late like usual....if “nobody knows right now” then you would be stupid to start taking em early right?....just get lucky later like usual right?.....####.... forever in Anarchy’s and SL’s  we have been giving TE’s TWICE as many PPR points in most leagues where they outscore most RB’s/WR’s (comparatively)....changing the look of those drafts......so we are kinda doing something like that elsewhere.....whats the big deal....yeah defenses are a little more “unpredictable” but they don’t get hurt and you still have control over to draft them or not...you can only count two each week....compared to possibly 4 RB’s or 5 WR’s or 3 TE’s...

honestly I think we might be over reacting here a little....

 

[Stinkin Ref]

imo POINTS AGAINST and YARD ALLOWED reflect the same statistical performance (good defense) and is double dipping. 

However the same argument can be also made for PPR in general. 

Just don't want the rules to change once I take two defenses at the turn! 

QB could throw an INT that gets returned to the 1 yard line.....defense steps on the field and gives up 1 yard and in most leagues most of their fantasy points on one, one yard play.....yards help that....one could argue yards allowed (which isn’t used in many leagues like our SL’s, Anarchy’s, etc IIRC) is actually a better reflection than points against, as points against could be a reflection of the offense putting the defense in bad positions......and if a DST holds a team to less yards, they are probably helping their team more by putting them in better positions to score, etc....

 

[OldMilwaukee]

Just saying........

Rules are Rules..... !

Carry on.....

we now return you to your regularly scheduled program

 

[by_the_sea_wannabe]

Looks like myself and btswb dropped Hopkins down our boards,  falling from WR3 to WR5.

My thought is that there might be something unknown going on with him for the Texans to move him..........to much uncertainty for the WR3.   Take a more safe guy (Hill). 

Of course,  I am likely wrong!

dropped from 2 to 5 for me. Of course the day before I spent 34 on DHOP in an auction when Julio who I now have at 4 went for 28. WR's seem to take a year to adjust to new situations and with the potential for this to be a shortened  preseason/ota's I am starting to construct on my board with an eye towards players staying  in static situations. Other than the rookie running backs who I am in love with.

 

[-OZ-]

QB could throw an INT that gets returned to the 1 yard line.....defense steps on the field and gives up 1 yard and in most leagues most of their fantasy points on one, one yard play.....yards help that....one could argue yards allowed (which isn’t used in many leagues like our SL’s, Anarchy’s, etc IIRC) is actually a better reflection than points against, as points against could be a reflection of the offense putting the defense in bad positions......and if a DST holds a team to less yards, they are probably helping their team more by putting them in better positions to score, etc....

On the other hand, points are all almost that really matter. 

I do agree that turnovers matter - safety, int, or fumble recovery.

If we were drafting team offense, I'd be okay with only points and turnovers counting. Same with defense. 

 

[Stinkin Ref]

On the other hand, points are all almost that really matter. 

I do agree that turnovers matter - safety, int, or fumble recovery.

If we were drafting team offense, I'd be okay with only points and turnovers counting. Same with defense. 

Lol...

I believe the way I have it set up....a DST would not be penalized by a pick 6....those points scored by the other teams defense when they return it for a TD would not count.....so if your DST is pitching a shutout but your DST’s QB throws a pick 6, its still a shutout....

as far as points are “almost all that really matter”.....a defense could play out their ### and be dominating but their QB throws a couple pick 6 and the DST does NOTHING for you in most scoring systems based solely on points.....

 

[Stinkin Ref]

@Mr. Irrelevant

 

[BassNBrew]

Isn't a safety really worth 5.5 points now?  1.5 for the sack and four for the safety?

 

[Stinkin Ref]

Isn't a safety really worth 5.5 points now?  1.5 for the sack and four for the safety?

Not all safety include a sack.

 

[Stinkin Ref]

@Mr. Irrelevant... get notifications please

 

[-OZ-]

”.....a defense could play out their ### and be dominating but their QB throws a couple pick 6 and the DST does NOTHING for you in most scoring systems based solely on points.....

 I assumed "scored against the defense or special teams" was implied. 

 

[Mr. Irrelevant]

@Mr. Irrelevant... get notifications please

Sorry Ref (and team). I did have it set up to text me - or thought I did at least - I waited to go OTC again this morning and nothin'. I went in and cleared everything out, turned it off, then back on and re-entered my info. Hopefully no more holdups from my end.

1.09 9 Kelce, Travis KCC TE1
2.04 16 Jacobs, Josh LVR RB8
3.09 33 Golladay, Kenny DET WR12
4.04 40 Gurley, Todd LAR RB20


TE premium scoring argues for filling the position early - and while I'm often reluctant to spend a 1st-rounder in the 16-team survivors, knowing it was coming back around to me in 6 more picks made Kelce an easy choice at 9.

I'm always biased toward upside in best-ball - safe to say my next three picks reflect that. Two young, talented studs still on the upswing in JJ and Golladay ... of course , situation matters too, and who knows what either of those offenses will look like in 6 months? And Gurley went from a 1st-rounder in WSL to a 4th-rounder here - admittedly I wouldn't have wanted him at a 1st-round price but RB20 overall seems like a massive overreaction. He's still only 25 and there are rumors swirling of the Tom Brady Bucs making a run at him this week ... yes please.

 

[Mr. Irrelevant]

I kind of suspected Murray would go QB3 after the Nuk news ... just wasn't sure how soon someone would be willing to take the plunge.

I probably won't own any shares of him at that price, but it's hard for me to find anyone else I'd rank above him either. Looks like I'll wind up punting the position in most leagues yet again this year.

 

[Stinkin Ref]

I kind of suspected Murray would go QB3 after the Nuk news ... just wasn't sure how soon someone would be willing to take the plunge.

I probably won't own any shares of him at that price, but it's hard for me to find anyone else I'd rank above him either. Looks like I'll wind up punting the position in most leagues yet again this year.

 I would have taken him in the 5th if those 4 picks make a difference but neither OZ or Duckboy had a QB and I didn't want to miss out on him for only 4 pick difference.....and then didn't think he'd make it back to the 6th....so now or never probably.....

 

[by_the_sea_wannabe]

Mixon, Joe CIN RB

Taylor, Jonathan FA RB‐-

Mixon was the last true rb 1 left on my board so I had to take him but passing on Hill/Adams was hard. Like I said above really like a lot of these rookie rbs to come in and be major contributors. Taylor stands above them all, I think he has legit top 5 upside and will take him here all day, would take him ahead of 5 of the rbs taken ahead of him and would consider him immediately after Mixon.

Jones, Julio ATL WR

Moore, D.J. CAR WR 

So hard to not take DHOP but I think Julio is just far safer. Like I said in wsl, I love me some DJ Moore don't give a damn who his qb is.

 

[-OZ-]

 I would have taken him in the 5th if those 4 picks make a difference but neither OZ or Duckboy had a QB and I didn't want to miss out on him for only 4 pick difference.....and then didn't think he'd make it back to the 6th....so now or never probably.....

I would have at least strongly considered him instead of Sutton. Considered Wilson too. But with only 12 teams and best ball, and total points (instead of survivor) I figured I would wait on QB. 

 

[-OZ-]

What is it about Cooper Kupp people don't like?

WR4 on the year, WR7 ppg, in his prime. WR17 here. 

And yet even as I was drafting him, the pick was unsatisfying. 

 

[Stinkin Ref]

What is it about Cooper Kupp people don't like?

WR4 on the year, WR7 ppg, in his prime. WR17 here. 

And yet even as I was drafting him, the pick was unsatisfying. 

I think because he was/is part of what many thought was the next big thing and a fantasy wonderland and it kind of seemed to fade a little bit....

 

[rzrback77]

What is it about Cooper Kupp people don't like?

WR4 on the year, WR7 ppg, in his prime. WR17 here. 

And yet even as I was drafting him, the pick was unsatisfying. 

Definitely a value pick and I had him at the top of my list, you had a great  turn at that corner in my opinion.

 

[-OZ-]

I think because he was/is part of what many thought was the next big thing and a fantasy wonderland and it kind of seemed to fade a little bit....

Now with girly gone, things may get interesting there.