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Reggie Bush as your #2 RB Week 1? (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter Eagles09
- Start date
EBF
Footballguy
I don't see why not. My per game projections for Bush would look something like:
10 carries for 48 yards
4 catches for 30 yards
.5 total TDs
That's 14.8 points in a PPR league, which would make him a solid RB2. He could even outperform these numbers if the coaching staff decides to really set him loose.
10 carries for 48 yards
4 catches for 30 yards
.5 total TDs
That's 14.8 points in a PPR league, which would make him a solid RB2. He could even outperform these numbers if the coaching staff decides to really set him loose.
you don't get points for receiving average...bush had 80 receptions last two seasons combined... white had 25...
nobody has ever suggested white is remotely in the same class as bush... as a RECEIVING back...
i could easily see white having decent average just from element of surprise... teams might not been expecting him to catch ball that often... he got it, what, about once a game on average?
there may be a lot of FBs in the NFL that have decent receiving averages, if they only get the ball few times a season... but i wouldn't want them in my lineup starting ahead of reggie...
don't get my wrong, i like white a lot... but nobody in this thread has suggested that he is as good a receiving weapon like bush... they never split him out wide to run WR-like routes, as faulk & westbrook are used...
if bush's receiving talents are misunderstood, underappreciated, sold short, it is IMPOSSIBLE to reckon his value fairly...
Dancing Bear
Footballguy
White rushed for more yardage and also had nearly 50% more Offensive TD's than Bush. Bush had a higher Yards per Rush average.
LenDale White had a Yards per Reception average which was greater than Reggie Bush. With PPR scoring and the difference in receptions obviously that puts Bush above White as he has basically 2 ppg more in scoring.
However, with standard Fantasy scoring White was less than 1 ppg from Bush over the two years [26 games]. That in itself is a testament to his ability to perform within the system and also to the system itself put together by Carroll at USC. In fact one could ask oneself if the performance was the player or the system? Two guys with nearly identical performance in the same system at the same time ...
Which of these statements is most likely?
A) The system is great and the athletes were both functional
B) The system is functional and the athletes were both great
C) The system is great and the athletes were both great
It seems to me that of these answers, only A) has bad news for us, and the news would be that Bush and White are not great but rather functional. I wish Reggie Bush a long prosperous career in the NFL, but if one believes that he is a function of either B) or C) above instead of A) above, then you should also give the same recognition and project the same bright future for White.
LenDale White had a Yards per Reception average which was greater than Reggie Bush. With PPR scoring and the difference in receptions obviously that puts Bush above White as he has basically 2 ppg more in scoring.
However, with standard Fantasy scoring White was less than 1 ppg from Bush over the two years [26 games]. That in itself is a testament to his ability to perform within the system and also to the system itself put together by Carroll at USC. In fact one could ask oneself if the performance was the player or the system? Two guys with nearly identical performance in the same system at the same time ...
Which of these statements is most likely?
A) The system is great and the athletes were both functional
B) The system is functional and the athletes were both great
C) The system is great and the athletes were both great
It seems to me that of these answers, only A) has bad news for us, and the news would be that Bush and White are not great but rather functional. I wish Reggie Bush a long prosperous career in the NFL, but if one believes that he is a function of either B) or C) above instead of A) above, then you should also give the same recognition and project the same bright future for White.
i do happen to like white a great deal... just not quite as much as bush, especially in a PPR league...
as to whether they are system guys...
i believe that if you put deangelo williams, lawrence maroney or adrian peterson behind the USC OL & embedded in that system last few seasons, they put up very good stats as well...
but the converse is true as well, imo...
if bush plays for a respectable div I team he probably takes a run at 2,000 yards if he doesn't divide carries... white also could have been the full time starter for just about any other team in the nation & might have had 2,000 yards & 40 TDs in a full time role... we don't know for sure if they could have handled workload (which is question about both, perhaps more about bush as some question his stature, though some question white's conditioning, stamina & endurance)...
one way i look at it is, independent scouts like mike mayock who himself played the pro game, are supposed to isolate out the attributes of a prospect & imagine how they would do in ANY system... some of those guys insist bush might be the best college player they have seen in 20 years, & he is one of the best RB prospects ever... you have to assume they are aware that he played on a team that also had first rounder leinart, mike williams, possible future first rounder duane jarrett, second round OL like latui, etc... & they are taking that into account.
USC has had some pretty good RBs over the years, maybe different systems, different coaches, but RBs like OJ simpson & marcus allen had a lot of success in the NFL... white was first freshman to ever lead team in rushing, tied the conference record for rushing TDs in a season & broke USC mark, broke the school & conference career rushing TD mark... white is good...
just not sure if that bears on whether bush is or isn't worthy of starting as a RB2 week one?
i watched a few USC games in recent seasons, but i don't recall if there were a lot of situations where bush & white were on the field together... i think it was often one or the other... i expect payton to get the ball in bush's hands a lot this season, & since he has WR skills, i think he will be on the field WITH deuce a lot... there will be times when bush may get a reception in that configuration, rather than deuce getting the carry...
i think with the way he divided action with white at USC, that situation was more of a either-or situation... which might make it difficult to project what he might do in new role based on old one, as they may be quite different.
* to cite some context-INDEPENDENT examples of things that might suggest bush & white would have been monsters in ANY system...
on some of bush's runs, & there were numerous examples, he was weaving through defenders WITH NO BLOCKERS!
no doubt the field was spread with all their weapons, but when three guys are about as close as a phone booth & nobody lays a hand on him, i can't help but think that reflects positively on his ability...
watching white run, he showed a lot of patience, vision, instincts & quick feet to hit the right hole... based on many rookie RBs i have seen in the past, few had those abilities to such an advanced & mature level of development... imo, they unmistakably bode well for his future in NFL... there were also times, like when he threw michael huff to the ground in championship game, where huff wasn't blocked... that was a one-on-one matchup he dominated, & didn't necessarily have a lot to do with the fact that he was behind great OL or had masterful play caller...
this gets back ISOLATING their attributes independently from a specific context they may have happened to be situated in at that time... that is what scouting is...
check out bush's workout... it was one of the best ever (maybe THE best) for a frontline RB prospect of his caliber... that clearly has little to do with who he played with last three seasons...
as to whether they are system guys...
i believe that if you put deangelo williams, lawrence maroney or adrian peterson behind the USC OL & embedded in that system last few seasons, they put up very good stats as well...
but the converse is true as well, imo...
if bush plays for a respectable div I team he probably takes a run at 2,000 yards if he doesn't divide carries... white also could have been the full time starter for just about any other team in the nation & might have had 2,000 yards & 40 TDs in a full time role... we don't know for sure if they could have handled workload (which is question about both, perhaps more about bush as some question his stature, though some question white's conditioning, stamina & endurance)...
one way i look at it is, independent scouts like mike mayock who himself played the pro game, are supposed to isolate out the attributes of a prospect & imagine how they would do in ANY system... some of those guys insist bush might be the best college player they have seen in 20 years, & he is one of the best RB prospects ever... you have to assume they are aware that he played on a team that also had first rounder leinart, mike williams, possible future first rounder duane jarrett, second round OL like latui, etc... & they are taking that into account.
USC has had some pretty good RBs over the years, maybe different systems, different coaches, but RBs like OJ simpson & marcus allen had a lot of success in the NFL... white was first freshman to ever lead team in rushing, tied the conference record for rushing TDs in a season & broke USC mark, broke the school & conference career rushing TD mark... white is good...
just not sure if that bears on whether bush is or isn't worthy of starting as a RB2 week one?
i watched a few USC games in recent seasons, but i don't recall if there were a lot of situations where bush & white were on the field together... i think it was often one or the other... i expect payton to get the ball in bush's hands a lot this season, & since he has WR skills, i think he will be on the field WITH deuce a lot... there will be times when bush may get a reception in that configuration, rather than deuce getting the carry...
i think with the way he divided action with white at USC, that situation was more of a either-or situation... which might make it difficult to project what he might do in new role based on old one, as they may be quite different.
* to cite some context-INDEPENDENT examples of things that might suggest bush & white would have been monsters in ANY system...
on some of bush's runs, & there were numerous examples, he was weaving through defenders WITH NO BLOCKERS!
no doubt the field was spread with all their weapons, but when three guys are about as close as a phone booth & nobody lays a hand on him, i can't help but think that reflects positively on his ability...watching white run, he showed a lot of patience, vision, instincts & quick feet to hit the right hole... based on many rookie RBs i have seen in the past, few had those abilities to such an advanced & mature level of development... imo, they unmistakably bode well for his future in NFL... there were also times, like when he threw michael huff to the ground in championship game, where huff wasn't blocked... that was a one-on-one matchup he dominated, & didn't necessarily have a lot to do with the fact that he was behind great OL or had masterful play caller...
this gets back ISOLATING their attributes independently from a specific context they may have happened to be situated in at that time... that is what scouting is...
check out bush's workout... it was one of the best ever (maybe THE best) for a frontline RB prospect of his caliber... that clearly has little to do with who he played with last three seasons...
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Superfreak
Footballguy
So where should Bush go in an initial dynasty draft with .5 PPR? I'm in a 12 team league and I'm picking 7th.
I'm thinking that if he makes it to my 2nd pick, I'm jumping all over him. I'm even debating him at 1.07 but I doubt I can pull the trigger.
On the other hand, RB's like Ronnie Brown, Steven Jackson, and Caddy don't really excite me much.
Is the middle of the 1st round too early for Bush in this situation?
I'm thinking that if he makes it to my 2nd pick, I'm jumping all over him. I'm even debating him at 1.07 but I doubt I can pull the trigger.
On the other hand, RB's like Ronnie Brown, Steven Jackson, and Caddy don't really excite me much.
Is the middle of the 1st round too early for Bush in this situation?
Dancing Bear
Footballguy
Bob_Magaw,
I appreciate your thoughtful response!
I appreciate your thoughtful response!
