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Reggie Bush: It's been fun New Orleans (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter Sigmund Bloom
- Start date
Reggie
ThePittbully
Footballguy
He should wait, but its hardly a mystery. The writing was on the wall when Pierre got his contract and Reggie didn't, and it's definitely on the wall now
Skeletore Eh
Footballguy
what a p****. go cry me a river reggie
footballsavvy
Footballguy
I posted this in another thread, but it looks like this is the official "Ingram thread" now:
As a Saints homer, I'm pumped about this. That said, I'm a little bit stumped. We have a very crowded backfield all of a sudden. Ivory is signed cheap and is a coach and fan favorite. Presumably he will be relegated to backup duty now? Pierre Thomas isn't necessarily a power runner but he does it adequately when healthy and is a very good (one of the best in the league) as running the screen play. Saints just signed Pierre Thomas to a 4 year deal worth $12 million. I suppose he could be traded without having to rework that contract, but I can't think of a team who really needs a RB (and we are seeing this reflected in the draft).
Reggie Bush is due $11.8 million in 2011 but has already said he is willing to renegotiate his contract in order to stay with the Saints. Sean Peyton loves him because of the unique niche role he fills. Fans have started to sour on Bush, so perhaps landing Ingram is the nail in the coffin for Bush? Then again, if Bush agrees to a contract as little as 3 mil per year then Peyton would likely want to keep him simply due to his versatility, including punt returns.
Perhaps we are looking at an Ingram backfield with Pierre Thomas spelling to the tune of ~10 rush attempts per game and a few receptions smattered in. But what about Ingram's superb receiving ability? The Saints run a lot of screens on early downs so Ingram should get ~40 receptions regardless. Does Pierre attempt to fill in the full Bush role or is the Bush role abandoned completely?
On top of the RB changes we have a new weapon in Jimmy Graham. Personally I think some changes are coming to the Saints offense. Graham will likely see more targets than any Saints TE has ever seen (some of these used to be Bush's targets). PT, if healthy the whole season, might only see 120 rush attempts, but might see 40-50 receptions. Ingram could get 220 rush attempts with around 40 receptions. Chris Ivory will get play time when others are injured or to spell Ingram on some early down work and maybe late in the season when he has fresh legs.
I'd like to hear some other thoughts on what Ingram means for the Saints and their skill position players.
As a Saints homer, I'm pumped about this. That said, I'm a little bit stumped. We have a very crowded backfield all of a sudden. Ivory is signed cheap and is a coach and fan favorite. Presumably he will be relegated to backup duty now? Pierre Thomas isn't necessarily a power runner but he does it adequately when healthy and is a very good (one of the best in the league) as running the screen play. Saints just signed Pierre Thomas to a 4 year deal worth $12 million. I suppose he could be traded without having to rework that contract, but I can't think of a team who really needs a RB (and we are seeing this reflected in the draft).
Reggie Bush is due $11.8 million in 2011 but has already said he is willing to renegotiate his contract in order to stay with the Saints. Sean Peyton loves him because of the unique niche role he fills. Fans have started to sour on Bush, so perhaps landing Ingram is the nail in the coffin for Bush? Then again, if Bush agrees to a contract as little as 3 mil per year then Peyton would likely want to keep him simply due to his versatility, including punt returns.
Perhaps we are looking at an Ingram backfield with Pierre Thomas spelling to the tune of ~10 rush attempts per game and a few receptions smattered in. But what about Ingram's superb receiving ability? The Saints run a lot of screens on early downs so Ingram should get ~40 receptions regardless. Does Pierre attempt to fill in the full Bush role or is the Bush role abandoned completely?
On top of the RB changes we have a new weapon in Jimmy Graham. Personally I think some changes are coming to the Saints offense. Graham will likely see more targets than any Saints TE has ever seen (some of these used to be Bush's targets). PT, if healthy the whole season, might only see 120 rush attempts, but might see 40-50 receptions. Ingram could get 220 rush attempts with around 40 receptions. Chris Ivory will get play time when others are injured or to spell Ingram on some early down work and maybe late in the season when he has fresh legs.
I'd like to hear some other thoughts on what Ingram means for the Saints and their skill position players.
Kenny Powers
Footballguy
If Bush id due 11.8, then yeah, it probably is "it's been fun New Orleans"..
That said, he seems like a pretty versatile and important part of their offense. I can see why they'd like to keep Ivory and PT around, but unload Bush?! For that price, it makes sense, but that price is outlandish.
Overall, Im just glad the Patsies didnt get Ingram.
That said, he seems like a pretty versatile and important part of their offense. I can see why they'd like to keep Ivory and PT around, but unload Bush?! For that price, it makes sense, but that price is outlandish.
Overall, Im just glad the Patsies didnt get Ingram.
footballsavvy
Footballguy
Bush has already stated that he will rework his contract to stay in new orleans. But at this point I would think he would need to come down to around 3m to have a chance at staying. He should be able to get close to 5m on the open market so he might just force them to cut him. But your right, Pierre can't fill Bush's role.
ThePittbully
Footballguy
I think Pierre can fill Bush's role, not the slot WR part but everything else. And they have Jimmy Graham and Lance Moore to fill his void in the receiving game
LHUCKS
Footballguy
not really, but okay
shader
Footballguy
Reggie plays a big role on that team.
But the Saints making this move shows that they are not happy with their running game.
Thomas and Ivory are average talents in an incredible offensive system. It will be night and day with Ingram in there. Great situation.
I wouldn't think Reggie's usage would change at all. That being said, I imagine Reggie wants to play in a situation where he gets more carries and that just isn't happening in NO.
But the Saints making this move shows that they are not happy with their running game.
Thomas and Ivory are average talents in an incredible offensive system. It will be night and day with Ingram in there. Great situation.
I wouldn't think Reggie's usage would change at all. That being said, I imagine Reggie wants to play in a situation where he gets more carries and that just isn't happening in NO.
psychobillies
Footballguy
I'd love to see Reggie back at a cheaper price, but look at the offensive production when he plays vs. when he doesn't. This offense is gonna be better with Ingram at the helm than with any of the other Saints backs.
Jules Winnfield
Footballguy
Lose a dimension of what?His 29 TDs TOTAL in five years on the offensive side of the ball? (Hell, ADP in one less year has 52 TDs on the ground)Will they miss Bush and his two 40+ yard runs for a career?Will they miss Bush and his 55 yard run for the longest of his career?Will they miss Bush and his four punt return for TDs in his career even though two came in one game...in 2008Will they miss his 29 TDs TOTAL for a career on the offensive side of the ball?In the 2006 Draft, Mo Jo Drew went #60 that year and he has 54 TDs on the ground and 7 in the airJospeh Addai went #30 that year and has 38 TDs on the ground and 9 in the air and he isn't very good.Laurence Maroney has more rushing TDs then BushFace it LHUCKS, even with the homer shades on. Bush has not been worthy of the #2 overall pick let alone folks like you thinking he was a #1 overall pick.
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Couch Potato
Footballguy
What they will miss is seeing him on the injury report all the time.
ThePittbully
Footballguy
I was coming to post something to this effect, but this is much better. I'd also like to add that he's missed games in every season but his rookie season, including only playing 8 games last year and only scoring 1 TD. He missed 3 games in the superbowl season and was non-existent in many others. In the 2009 season he only got 10 carries or more twice and finished the season with 390 yards rushing and 335 yards receiving. Pierre also happened to miss 3 games that year, he finished with 800 yards rushing and 302 receiving. He was better than Reggie in both yards per attempt and yards per catch. His longest run and reception also bested Reggie's that year. So what exactly can Pierre not replace?
LHUCKS
Footballguy
Minus the receiving ability of course.
Bush's impact on the team isn't something you really measure through stats - He simply brings an entirely different and improved dynamic to the offense as a whole, even if he isn't providing the stats himself. How he lines up, the mis-matches that other teams deal with and the options he opens up make that O better.
Might not be worth the 2nd overall draft pick and it's the definition of a roleplayer, but he does help considerably.
It'll be interesting to see whether Ingram changes the O quite as much or whether he 'simply' gets the yards.
Might not be worth the 2nd overall draft pick and it's the definition of a roleplayer, but he does help considerably.
It'll be interesting to see whether Ingram changes the O quite as much or whether he 'simply' gets the yards.
comfortably numb
Footballguy
I can see how saying Bush is not "worthy" of a #2 pick, but you just listed a bunch of numbers.IMO a guy like Bush has different intangibles that are hard to measure with the numbers you listed.In fairness to all you questions above, I think you also have to ask questions like:Will they miss an average of 10 wins/season since he has been on the teamWill they miss a player who was a main cog in uplifting this team and city from rubles to a team filled with possible superbowl dreamsWill they miss their SuperBowl winWill they miss DC's having to spend extra time in perpetration for the many uses Bush offers to the Saint's O and STWill they miss LB's or DB's having to always worry where or be responsible for Bush's whereabouts?Sure they will succeed without him, heck they may even be better as a whole without him, but to read your post it sounded as if he was holding them back from winning since not living up to #2 overall pick.Assuming he does get released, it will have more to do with $ than with ability.He will go somewhere else, and for at least a few more years, have the same to offer any other club
kneeshooter
Footballguy
Some are saying that Reggie was at the Hornets game, and his comment was diected towards their elimination
griff321
Footballguy
He was watching the draft. He previous tweet was about fans giving Rodger grief.
Dr. Octopus
Footballguy
Rumors were that New England tried to trade for him right before the trade deadline last season. Maybe the Saints ship him there as kind of a wink wink agreement in the deal that allowed the Saints to draft Ingram.
Frank Black
Footballguy
NE would be interesting. He would fit in well with the rest of their oft injured RBs.
daveR
Footballguy
agreed, but Ingram might.
Holy Schneikes
Footballguy
It's been a while since I looked at the numbers (in a thread called "Sell high on Bush many years ago), but last time I looked the team was actually less effective OVERALL with Bush in the game than they were without him. Now for returns, he has been effective. But on offense, they essentially replaced him with an UDFA who was considerably more effective. He would have been replaced much earlier had the team not made such a huge investment in him.
psychobillies
Footballguy
Can anyone break down the offensive scoring with Reggie, and without? I like Reggie, and I've been defending him throughout his career. I blamed his injuries for the inconsistency, and kept waiting for his "breakout" season. Someone broke it down mid season last year, and I believe that the Saints score more points when he does not play.
TheFanatic
Footballguy
On a team with Drew Brees and a ton of decent to good WR's, yeah, the DC's are going to love getting that 30 seconds of their lives back in preparing for Reggie Bush. The guy's not good. He's a horrible RB and an average receiver. There is no debate on this. We have enough years of seeing what Reggie will do next year to know he is what he is and that's mediocre at best, vastly over payed and infinitely overhyped (as evidenced by this kind of defense of the guy). This urban myth that DC's cringe at what Reggie will do to them needs to stop now.
Did he help uplift a city after being ravaged by a hurricane? Absolutely. But so did Harry Connick Jr. Doesn't make Connick a good RB. I believe Mr. Connick has only a slightly lower YPC than Bush.
Faust
MVP
The Ingram pick will be huge plus for Graham and the other WRs – the LBs and DBs that would normally be involved in providing extra coverage for Graham will now be forced to cheat up closer to the Line of Scrimmage, and as a result Graham will have plenty of room to get open and won’t deal with any significant amount of double coverage.
Jason Wood
Zoo York
Bush was pouting last night. He's due an obscene $11.8 million this year, so the Saints were going to make him redo his deal regardless. Now they have extra incentive to do so, and if Bush thinks he'll get a fraction of that by forcing himself into free agency, I respectfully disagree.
Steel Dillo
Footballguy
Where are his likely landing spots if not with the Saints?
Some quotes from Peyton and teh Saints front office. Sure there's probably a bit of lip service here, but all 4 of the Saints RBs were hurt last year, they need depth. I'm not necessarily a huge fan of trading up for a RB (particularly one that was hurt last year); but there is definitely room for Reggie and Ingram.Also, who in their right mind will take Reggie this year in a trade at his salary? I don't think the Saints will outright releasehim. From everything I've heard, Reggie knows damn well that a Sean Peyton offense is the best thing for him.
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tom22406
Footballguy
I'm sure he wasn't very happy they took Ingram but he was a huge Hornets fan and they got knocked out last night by the Lakers so that is a real possibility of what this tweet means.
Twitter is a great tool but just love how things spread like wildfire over what is speculated to be the meaning of words.
Twitter is a great tool but just love how things spread like wildfire over what is speculated to be the meaning of words.
Bush also tweeted this right after
saintfool
Dead sexy
i've said this in another thread: i understand the move even if i don't necessarily agree with it. payton knows we need can't expect to win another superbowl without good RBs. nothing against ivory or pierre but we learned that the hard way last year. payton was simply being smart and careful. i expect them to come to reggie and ask for the paycut or offer to restructure his current deal for a couple more years. payton likes reggie even if most fans don't. if reggie agrees then all is forgiven but, if not, then reggie is gone.pierre has a pretty modest contract that's averaging $3m/year. he could be cut without destroying the saints cap but he might stay through or simply be traded in time. if he's healthy then it's a great stable of RBs to have. ivory might be done in NOLA regardless.
BRONG
FOR A LIMITED TIME ONLY
Bush has always been a lying, cheating, ####-talking, cocky #######, but for some reason the media/public loved him. What is it with the guy? His looks, smile? Is he well-spoken? He can schmooze I guess. Reminds me of O.J. like that. Everybody loved the juice.
I don't know what it is but I enjoy it when glimpses of the real Reggie are seen.
I don't know what it is but I enjoy it when glimpses of the real Reggie are seen.
Gr00vus
Footballguy
Depends on the price. I wonder how much he'll draw if he's on the market.
johnadams
Footballguy
I've heard a lot of rumors about Pierre to NE as well. And Bush won't get traded. Nobody is taking on that contract. He'll be a cap casualty and could land in NE, but he's not getting traded anywhere.
PlasmaDogPlasma
Footballguy
Seems like a whole lot of hate here being directed at a guy for saying "It's been fun".
I can only imagine the reaction if he had tweeted some of the stuff you guys feel comfortable posting here.
I can only imagine the reaction if he had tweeted some of the stuff you guys feel comfortable posting here.
Raiderfan32904
Footballguy
Link please. I think he is on the way out because he will not renegotiate.
Raiderfan32904
Footballguy
saintfool
Dead sexy
i don't see any reason for Reggie to come to NE. Pierre maybe. Reggie? First I've heard of that.
saintfool
Dead sexy
it comes down to the money though. i doubt reggie would accept $2m/year, for example. payton is sweet on reggie, of course, and sounded like he wanted reggie in his presser. still, it's not a sure thing.
Breesisdaman
Footballguy
Actually I am beginning to agree that Reggie is a gone pecan and its not just about money. Reggie is feeling more and more marginalized and the addition of Mark Ingram just limits his playing time even more. Bush was a Heisman trophy winner at one time his self and used to be the face of the franchise before Brees started getting going and before Reggies injuries. Reggie is a big competitor and is also one who loves the attention and the spotlight. He is increasing losing both and now with Ingram on board he is practically an after thought (At least in his mind) Bush was visibly upset that he didnt play a bigger role in the Seattle playoff loss when Julius Jones was getting the bigger work load before they both got hurt in that game. Bush is not a happy camper these days and if the Saints are to stand a chance of resigning him they are going to have to be very convincing that he will have an increased role even with Ingram on board. I dont think they are going to be able to sell it myself but I do hope that they do because Reggie is still a very affective weapon that can take it to the house if defenses don't account for him. Pierre Thomas can play Reggies role if Bush decides its better to go somewhere else but Pierre has a different skill set than Bush and is more suited to be a pure RB rather than the hybrid speedster RB/WR type. While this RB situation sorts itself out many fantasy owners watch with anticipation at what the New Orleans back field will become. I have pretty much decided to change my handle from "Bushisdaman" to "Breesisdaman" because clearly Bush is no longer "The man" in New Orleans whether or not he stays or goes.
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A lot has changed since than. I feel pretty confident thinking at a point he was ready to take redo his deal to remain with the Saints. Than they resigned Pierre. Maybe Reggie was fine with that but since that signing I never heard him state a desire to redo his deal. Than they draft Ingram and Reggie basically says goodbye.My thought is he knew the open market was not going to pay him anything close to his current salary and he genuinely likes playing for the Saints so he was very willing to take a pay cut and stay. But that was a at a time when he was inclined to believe he'd play a good role and maybe even thought he could build his stock back up. Now he's looking at at least a 3 headed RBBC if not 4 headed RBBC and 3 of the backs are pretty decent pass receivers which is his strong skill. In short taking a pay cut AND drastically reduced role is probably not something he's inclined to do and I think he's all but gone.
