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Ren's old crypto thread || we know how to buy this stuff now (1 Viewer)

Hilts said:
Google working on their own blockchain technology. 
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Another reason why I always thought the "coins" were the worthless part of it. The technology is what matters and the coins become like dollar bills in terms of transactions. The transactions should happen so fast that both merchant and buyer "purchase" the coin at the same value and the coin is just a tool to make a transaction and not an investment.

 
ditka...mike ditka said:
Anyone still buying anything?  Ripple just got added to Uphold a few days ago.   Was considering buying a little.
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Still paying my tribute to Israel.  Paying in cash so I don't incur more capital gains tax next year by selling capital gains to pay capital gains tax from last year.  It really is a joke.  

I'd imagine there are a lot of people in the same boat I am.  Hopefully we'll see some more movement after tax season.  

 
I'm reading a lot of people trying to do their taxes and showing a pretty scary disregard for what the tax laws actually are.  It's as if this is their first time investing in anything.

I also wonder what sort of view IRS takes when considering a wash sale going from one coin to another.  They can take a rather dim view of trading out of commodity exchanges to the hard metal, for example. 

 
culdeus said:
I'm reading a lot of people trying to do their taxes and showing a pretty scary disregard for what the tax laws actually are.  It's as if this is their first time investing in anything.

I also wonder what sort of view IRS takes when considering a wash sale going from one coin to another.  They can take a rather dim view of trading out of commodity exchanges to the hard metal, for example. 
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To be fair, crypto tax is absurdly complicated and stupid hard to figure out if you're a regular person.   I've traded on a number of exchanges at great length.  None of them have sent a form of any kind or made it easy to figure up what my liabilities are.  

Coinbase for example lets you download an xcel file showing your trade history, but it's on the end user to manually calculate every ####coin to ####coin capital gain/loss at the time of trade.  Bitcoin.tax is a website API that crunches the numbers automatically but there's no telling how accurate it is.  Good news is there are many countries loosening up on crypto, unlike the infestation of moneygrubbing scumbags running this one.  Moral of the story is America sucks now, and hates freedom.  

 
ren hoek said:
To be fair, crypto tax is absurdly complicated and stupid hard to figure out if you're a regular person.   I've traded on a number of exchanges at great length.  None of them have sent a form of any kind or made it easy to figure up what my liabilities are.  

Coinbase for example lets you download an xcel file showing your trade history, but it's on the end user to manually calculate every ####coin to ####coin capital gain/loss at the time of trade.  Bitcoin.tax is a website API that crunches the numbers automatically but there's no telling how accurate it is.  Good news is there are many countries loosening up on crypto, unlike the infestation of moneygrubbing scumbags running this one.  Moral of the story is America sucks now, and hates freedom.  
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But here's the thing that I think people are missing.  There hasn't been an argument yet that is convincing to say that crypto isn't a commodity in and of itself. I could easily see IRS issuing a memo saying that wash sales apply across all coins until you can prove that there is a distinguishing feature between them.

 
culdeus said:
But here's the thing that I think people are missing.  There hasn't been an argument yet that is convincing to say that crypto isn't a commodity in and of itself. I could easily see IRS issuing a memo saying that wash sales apply across all coins until you can prove that there is a distinguishing feature between them.
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There hasn't been a compelling argument for why some couldn't be considered outright currencies either though.  

 
ren hoek said:
There hasn't been a compelling argument for why some couldn't be considered outright currencies either though.  
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I'm a long term believer in cryptos but it's hard for me to consider something that requires the presence of electricity/power to be considered a true "currency".    A power or internet outage would completely paralyze the crypto world. Regular currencies would also struggle in these circumstances- but they would still be able to be used to conduct commerce. In regards to todays bitcoin price jump--I don't have much insight to how or why--but it does seem suspicious to me.   Regardless--congrats to anybody who is profiting from it.  

 
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jvdesigns2002 said:
I'm a long term believer in cryptos but it's hard for me to consider something that requires the presence of electricity/power to be considered a true "currency".    A power or internet outage In regards to todays bitcoin price jump--I don't have much insight to how or why--but it does seem suspicious to me.   Regardless--congrats to anybody who is profiting from it.  
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That's an interesting take on it.  I've never thought about it like that.  Though it really only requires electricity to move onchain, not unlike many bank transfers.  Your crypto is tied to the address whether or not the blockchain is live.  

Not sure what to make of this bump.  Doesn't appear to be Tether this time.  

 
Capella said:
Because I’m still at a 50% loss?
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I'm no technical wiz, but BTC is tracking towards a support level of 4000-4500 assuming you treat this thing like it is actually real..  Any big blip on the way to 4000 should be sold, and buy back in on the way down, if you still like the position.  

 
Johnny Rock said:
Picked up $300 more of BAT the other day. 
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They just announced yesterday that they've reached +2M users.  Still have yet to release v1.0 or start their ad trials.  Still haven't announced their "top-3 NYC media partnership".  Washington Post is verified publisher, along with Guardian and many others.  Things looking good.  

 
culdeus said:
Is it a tech or a currency?  
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Blockchain is a technology on which BTC, ETH is based.  The technology is what drives the price of the coins.  In the case of ETHEREUM - which is where I'm mainly invested - you need to use the Ether tokens to make every single transaction within the network and there are currently less than 100MM Ether tokens in circulation.  I hear Vitalik is pushing for a hard cap on the amount of tokens.  But ether way (<<< see what I did there), THAT is where the value in the tokens lies.  IF you believe in the technology, then the market inefficiencies should not matter and should allow you to be emotionally separated from the current values.  Myself, I'm almost back to break-even on ETH (avg buy-in at $550) but I couldn't care less what the value is today or in 3 years, I'm holding for the long-term.

 
Rhythmdoctor said:
Blockchain is a technology on which BTC, ETH is based.  The technology is what drives the price of the coins.  In the case of ETHEREUM - which is where I'm mainly invested - you need to use the Ether tokens to make every single transaction within the network and there are currently less than 100MM Ether tokens in circulation.  I hear Vitalik is pushing for a hard cap on the amount of tokens.  But ether way (<<< see what I did there), THAT is where the value in the tokens lies.  IF you believe in the technology, then the market inefficiencies should not matter and should allow you to be emotionally separated from the current values.  Myself, I'm almost back to break-even on ETH (avg buy-in at $550) but I couldn't care less what the value is today or in 3 years, I'm holding for the long-term.
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If you believe in the tech, does that mean automatically you need to have a huge stash of coins?  I mean I believe in all sorts of tech, but I only have and operate it to the point where it meets my needs.  

Once you disconnect technology from investment you have to look at why you invest in this?  What value will your coin bring in the future, over today?  Why does the value of the coin inherently have to go up?  Does going up prevent, or harm adoption?  Do you want adoption?  Really?  

Blockchain tech is great, you can use the blockchain tech without involving coins.  That's the main worry I have.  There's no definable reason we have to have a offline storage for value.

If Amex or someone wants to start using blockchain to process transactions, ok, great.  I mean today, I swiped my card to get a double espresso.  Before I even picked it up, literally within maybe 2s, Amex pinged my phone to notify me on the TX.  What value does blockchain bring to Amex? Lower costs? Ok, but why would they need to denominate this in anything but USD?  

These are the questions I have, watching people talk coins, seeing 0 adoption whatsoever, and transactions seem just speculative.  I like the concept, but the investment shouldn't be treated like a litmus test on whether you like the technology, and your value and love of the tech shouldn't determine your investment volume.

.02

 
culdeus said:
If you believe in the tech, does that mean automatically you need to have a huge stash of coins?  I mean I believe in all sorts of tech, but I only have and operate it to the point where it meets my needs.  

Once you disconnect technology from investment you have to look at why you invest in this?  What value will your coin bring in the future, over today?  Why does the value of the coin inherently have to go up?  Does going up prevent, or harm adoption?  Do you want adoption?  Really?  

Blockchain tech is great, you can use the blockchain tech without involving coins.  That's the main worry I have.  There's no definable reason we have to have a offline storage for value.

If Amex or someone wants to start using blockchain to process transactions, ok, great.  I mean today, I swiped my card to get a double espresso.  Before I even picked it up, literally within maybe 2s, Amex pinged my phone to notify me on the TX.  What value does blockchain bring to Amex? Lower costs? Ok, but why would they need to denominate this in anything but USD?  

These are the questions I have, watching people talk coins, seeing 0 adoption whatsoever, and transactions seem just speculative.  I like the concept, but the investment shouldn't be treated like a litmus test on whether you like the technology, and your value and love of the tech shouldn't determine your investment volume.

.02
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I appreciate the discussion on this.

It's not like I will personally ever use an Ether token to develop a smart contract or pay for a transaction on the Ethereum network.  BUT, if the tech is here to stay, then there will be a high demand for those tokens by the developers on the Ethereum network and anyone who creates smart contracts etc... This has nothing to do with USD vs ETH.  It's not like ETH is going to replace USD, it's simply a specific form of currency designed to be used on the Ethereum network.  So yes, the value of the tokens and the belief/adoption of the technology are absolutely correlated.  I guess my question to you is: how are they not related?  Why else would anyone invest in any of these tokens unless they're just along for the ride and read about it on Reddit?  I heard about BTC in 2009 but didn't see the value in it.  And BTC by the way is a separate discussion as it is NOT the same as Ethereum.  It has the same blockchain technology, but BTC is simply a currency.  It offers no other use such as smart contracts.  Ethereum took that idea and was created with a flexible, open-minded approach that you can have that transparent, self-auditing component on ANYTHING (such as agreements, executing contractual actions once the conditions are met).

Maybe this is a poor analogy but to me, investing in ETH is not too much different than say investing in a stock for a computer chip (say Intel 20 years ago).  IF you believe in the technology and the mass adoption of it (home computers, smart phones, tablets etc...) then investing in a necessary and needed component within that network is an excellent idea and IF you're right about the mass adoption of that product/technology, then you will absolutely make money on that investment.  They are completely dependent on each other.  That bolded portion is the key in all of this.  IF Ethereum is here to stay and IF it becomes Internet 2.0 (which many think it is) and IF Ethereum is the largest network in which smart contracts and business transactions are executed, then investing in the coins IS the best way for Joe Shmoe to capitalize on this new technology.  I won't use an ETHER coin ever (presumably) but the developers and business who use it will most definitely use those coins.  And with a limited supply and a growing network, I foresee the value of those coins going UP.

 
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