Rep. Frank to step down at end of term (1 Viewer)

[The Commish]

Virginia is overrated. Schedule wasn't nearly as hard as any of the other top teams in the ACC (Duke, UNC, Pitt, Syracuse). I wouldn't be surprised if those 4 are still there in the tourney when Virginia is eliminated. They have a decent team, don't get me wrong, but far from what the standings in the ACC say.

Florida is my best team in the country right now.

I do think the tourney will come down to one of the following teams winning it all: Florida, Arizona, Duke, Michigan St, Wisconsin, or Kansas. Whoever can get hot at the right time.

Virginia was 14 a week or so ago.....how much further down do you think they should be ranked?

Im not necessarily saying they are overrated in the polls, because those don't really matter anyways. They are overrated with all the attention they are getting. Unless they win the ACC tournament, they better not get a 1 or 2 seed.

No one is talking about them....even in the ACC (until this week of course). It's pretty shameful. Who are the 8 teams that are clearly better than them, have had better wins and have been playing better basketball than them? Also, how much of this team have you actually watched? It's bizarre that you say the polls don't matter but yet claim they are overrated. The polls are the rating system we have

I've watched at least 4 games of theirs. Im also a basketball junkie, so I try to watch as much as possible. Im sure to the average fan, they may have watched the Cuse game and that's it. Everyone is going to be on their nuts this week. I like the way they play, and I think they are a solid team, but overrated.

Top teams: Florida, Wichita State, Kansas, Arizona, Wisconsin, Syracuse, San Diego St, Villanova, Louisville, Cincinnati, Duke, Michigan, Creighton. All these teams could be in the conversation of being better. Not saying they clearly are, but one could argue.

This is different than saying "they shouldn't be a 1 or 2 seed" as the definitive statement you made above. Easy arguments can be made against half the teams in your list, including my Michigan Wolverines and they'd be very strong arguments, especially if you put them head to head.

 

[Timmay]

Virginia is overrated. Schedule wasn't nearly as hard as any of the other top teams in the ACC (Duke, UNC, Pitt, Syracuse). I wouldn't be surprised if those 4 are still there in the tourney when Virginia is eliminated. They have a decent team, don't get me wrong, but far from what the standings in the ACC say.

Florida is my best team in the country right now.

I do think the tourney will come down to one of the following teams winning it all: Florida, Arizona, Duke, Michigan St, Wisconsin, or Kansas. Whoever can get hot at the right time.

Virginia was 14 a week or so ago.....how much further down do you think they should be ranked?

Im not necessarily saying they are overrated in the polls, because those don't really matter anyways. They are overrated with all the attention they are getting. Unless they win the ACC tournament, they better not get a 1 or 2 seed.

No one is talking about them....even in the ACC (until this week of course). It's pretty shameful. Who are the 8 teams that are clearly better than them, have had better wins and have been playing better basketball than them? Also, how much of this team have you actually watched? It's bizarre that you say the polls don't matter but yet claim they are overrated. The polls are the rating system we have

I've watched at least 4 games of theirs. Im also a basketball junkie, so I try to watch as much as possible. Im sure to the average fan, they may have watched the Cuse game and that's it. Everyone is going to be on their nuts this week. I like the way they play, and I think they are a solid team, but overrated.

Top teams: Florida, Wichita State, Kansas, Arizona, Wisconsin, Syracuse, San Diego St, Villanova, Louisville, Cincinnati, Duke, Michigan, Creighton. All these teams could be in the conversation of being better. Not saying they clearly are, but one could argue.

This is different than saying "they shouldn't be a 1 or 2 seed" as the definitive statement you made above. Easy arguments can be made against half the teams in your list, including my Michigan Wolverines and they'd be very strong arguments, especially if you put them head to head.

Anything short of an ACC tourney championship should not warrant them a 1 or 2 seed. Simple as that. That is what I said earlier. With all the parity in this years college basketball, unless you are a conference tourney champion, it will be hard to warrant a top seed, unless you are Florida or maybe Arizona.

 

[The Commish]

Virginia is overrated. Schedule wasn't nearly as hard as any of the other top teams in the ACC (Duke, UNC, Pitt, Syracuse). I wouldn't be surprised if those 4 are still there in the tourney when Virginia is eliminated. They have a decent team, don't get me wrong, but far from what the standings in the ACC say.

Florida is my best team in the country right now.

I do think the tourney will come down to one of the following teams winning it all: Florida, Arizona, Duke, Michigan St, Wisconsin, or Kansas. Whoever can get hot at the right time.

Virginia was 14 a week or so ago.....how much further down do you think they should be ranked?

Im not necessarily saying they are overrated in the polls, because those don't really matter anyways. They are overrated with all the attention they are getting. Unless they win the ACC tournament, they better not get a 1 or 2 seed.

No one is talking about them....even in the ACC (until this week of course). It's pretty shameful. Who are the 8 teams that are clearly better than them, have had better wins and have been playing better basketball than them? Also, how much of this team have you actually watched? It's bizarre that you say the polls don't matter but yet claim they are overrated. The polls are the rating system we have

I've watched at least 4 games of theirs. Im also a basketball junkie, so I try to watch as much as possible. Im sure to the average fan, they may have watched the Cuse game and that's it. Everyone is going to be on their nuts this week. I like the way they play, and I think they are a solid team, but overrated.

Top teams: Florida, Wichita State, Kansas, Arizona, Wisconsin, Syracuse, San Diego St, Villanova, Louisville, Cincinnati, Duke, Michigan, Creighton. All these teams could be in the conversation of being better. Not saying they clearly are, but one could argue.

This is different than saying "they shouldn't be a 1 or 2 seed" as the definitive statement you made above. Easy arguments can be made against half the teams in your list, including my Michigan Wolverines and they'd be very strong arguments, especially if you put them head to head.

Anything short of an ACC tourney championship should not warrant them a 1 or 2 seed. Simple as that. That is what I said earlier. With all the parity in this years college basketball, unless you are a conference tourney champion, it will be hard to warrant a top seed, unless you are Florida or maybe Arizona.

Why are Florida and Arizona possible exemptions and the others aren't? You're all over the place here.

 

[Grady Wilson]

Virginia at 22 to 1 is probably the best bet on the board. Michigan at 28/1 and Wichita State at 12/1 would be my next picks. This year picking the field at 50/1 might be interesting.

Florida 5/1 Kansas 7/1 Michigan State 8/1 Syracuse 10/1 Duke 10/1 Arizona 10/1 Louisville 10/1 Wichita State 12/1 Kentucky 12/1 Creighton 20/1 Virginia 22/1 Villanova 22/1 Wisconsin 25/1 Michigan 28/1 Ohio State 30/1 Saint Louis 35/1 Iowa State 35/1 Iowa 35/1 North Carolina 40/1 UCLA 50/1 Field (Any Other Team) 50/1

While I think Virginia is deserving of a high seed, I'm not too confident in how far they go in the tourney.

 

[Timmay]

Virginia is overrated. Schedule wasn't nearly as hard as any of the other top teams in the ACC (Duke, UNC, Pitt, Syracuse). I wouldn't be surprised if those 4 are still there in the tourney when Virginia is eliminated. They have a decent team, don't get me wrong, but far from what the standings in the ACC say.

Florida is my best team in the country right now.

I do think the tourney will come down to one of the following teams winning it all: Florida, Arizona, Duke, Michigan St, Wisconsin, or Kansas. Whoever can get hot at the right time.

Virginia was 14 a week or so ago.....how much further down do you think they should be ranked?

Im not necessarily saying they are overrated in the polls, because those don't really matter anyways. They are overrated with all the attention they are getting. Unless they win the ACC tournament, they better not get a 1 or 2 seed.

No one is talking about them....even in the ACC (until this week of course). It's pretty shameful. Who are the 8 teams that are clearly better than them, have had better wins and have been playing better basketball than them? Also, how much of this team have you actually watched? It's bizarre that you say the polls don't matter but yet claim they are overrated. The polls are the rating system we have

I've watched at least 4 games of theirs. Im also a basketball junkie, so I try to watch as much as possible. Im sure to the average fan, they may have watched the Cuse game and that's it. Everyone is going to be on their nuts this week. I like the way they play, and I think they are a solid team, but overrated.

Top teams: Florida, Wichita State, Kansas, Arizona, Wisconsin, Syracuse, San Diego St, Villanova, Louisville, Cincinnati, Duke, Michigan, Creighton. All these teams could be in the conversation of being better. Not saying they clearly are, but one could argue.

This is different than saying "they shouldn't be a 1 or 2 seed" as the definitive statement you made above. Easy arguments can be made against half the teams in your list, including my Michigan Wolverines and they'd be very strong arguments, especially if you put them head to head.

Anything short of an ACC tourney championship should not warrant them a 1 or 2 seed. Simple as that. That is what I said earlier. With all the parity in this years college basketball, unless you are a conference tourney champion, it will be hard to warrant a top seed, unless you are Florida or maybe Arizona.

Why are Florida and Arizona possible exemptions and the others aren't? You're all over the place here.

How am I all over the place? Florida is clearly the best team in the nation right now. They have proven it with their schedule. Arizona has been near the top all year. They both have 2 loses on the season in a big conference. Florida's RPI is 3, Arizona's RPI is 1. Florida has won 21 straight games. Arizona has 10 wins against top 50 RPI teams. So yea, they are the exceptions. And if you even say Wichita State, I don't count them due to the difficulty of schedule and weaker conference.

 

[Ramblin Wreck]

Virginia is overrated. Schedule wasn't nearly as hard as any of the other top teams in the ACC (Duke, UNC, Pitt, Syracuse). I wouldn't be surprised if those 4 are still there in the tourney when Virginia is eliminated. They have a decent team, don't get me wrong, but far from what the standings in the ACC say.

Florida is my best team in the country right now.

I do think the tourney will come down to one of the following teams winning it all: Florida, Arizona, Duke, Michigan St, Wisconsin, or Kansas. Whoever can get hot at the right time.

Virginia was 14 a week or so ago.....how much further down do you think they should be ranked?

Im not necessarily saying they are overrated in the polls, because those don't really matter anyways. They are overrated with all the attention they are getting. Unless they win the ACC tournament, they better not get a 1 or 2 seed.

No one is talking about them....even in the ACC (until this week of course). It's pretty shameful. Who are the 8 teams that are clearly better than them, have had better wins and have been playing better basketball than them? Also, how much of this team have you actually watched? It's bizarre that you say the polls don't matter but yet claim they are overrated. The polls are the rating system we have

I've watched at least 4 games of theirs. Im also a basketball junkie, so I try to watch as much as possible. Im sure to the average fan, they may have watched the Cuse game and that's it. Everyone is going to be on their nuts this week. I like the way they play, and I think they are a solid team, but overrated.

Top teams: Florida, Wichita State, Kansas, Arizona, Wisconsin, Syracuse, San Diego St, Villanova, Louisville, Cincinnati, Duke, Michigan, Creighton. All these teams could be in the conversation of being better. Not saying they clearly are, but one could argue.

You could argue a lot of things but that doesn't make one end of the argument overrated. Clearly, you haven't watched Virginia play a whole lot of ACC games.

 

[Ramblin Wreck]

Virginia at 22 to 1 is probably the best bet on the board. Michigan at 28/1 and Wichita State at 12/1 would be my next picks. This year picking the field at 50/1 might be interesting.

Florida 5/1 Kansas 7/1 Michigan State 8/1 Syracuse 10/1 Duke 10/1 Arizona 10/1 Louisville 10/1 Wichita State 12/1 Kentucky 12/1 Creighton 20/1 Virginia 22/1 Villanova 22/1 Wisconsin 25/1 Michigan 28/1 Ohio State 30/1 Saint Louis 35/1 Iowa State 35/1 Iowa 35/1 North Carolina 40/1 UCLA 50/1 Field (Any Other Team) 50/1

While I think Virginia is deserving of a high seed, I'm not too confident in how far they go in the tourney.

Hard to give a confidence level of anyone in the tournament until you see the matchups and locations.

 

[The Commish]

Virginia is overrated. Schedule wasn't nearly as hard as any of the other top teams in the ACC (Duke, UNC, Pitt, Syracuse). I wouldn't be surprised if those 4 are still there in the tourney when Virginia is eliminated. They have a decent team, don't get me wrong, but far from what the standings in the ACC say.

Florida is my best team in the country right now.

I do think the tourney will come down to one of the following teams winning it all: Florida, Arizona, Duke, Michigan St, Wisconsin, or Kansas. Whoever can get hot at the right time.

Virginia was 14 a week or so ago.....how much further down do you think they should be ranked?

Im not necessarily saying they are overrated in the polls, because those don't really matter anyways. They are overrated with all the attention they are getting. Unless they win the ACC tournament, they better not get a 1 or 2 seed.

No one is talking about them....even in the ACC (until this week of course). It's pretty shameful. Who are the 8 teams that are clearly better than them, have had better wins and have been playing better basketball than them? Also, how much of this team have you actually watched? It's bizarre that you say the polls don't matter but yet claim they are overrated. The polls are the rating system we have

I've watched at least 4 games of theirs. Im also a basketball junkie, so I try to watch as much as possible. Im sure to the average fan, they may have watched the Cuse game and that's it. Everyone is going to be on their nuts this week. I like the way they play, and I think they are a solid team, but overrated.

Top teams: Florida, Wichita State, Kansas, Arizona, Wisconsin, Syracuse, San Diego St, Villanova, Louisville, Cincinnati, Duke, Michigan, Creighton. All these teams could be in the conversation of being better. Not saying they clearly are, but one could argue.

This is different than saying "they shouldn't be a 1 or 2 seed" as the definitive statement you made above. Easy arguments can be made against half the teams in your list, including my Michigan Wolverines and they'd be very strong arguments, especially if you put them head to head.

Anything short of an ACC tourney championship should not warrant them a 1 or 2 seed. Simple as that. That is what I said earlier. With all the parity in this years college basketball, unless you are a conference tourney champion, it will be hard to warrant a top seed, unless you are Florida or maybe Arizona.

Why are Florida and Arizona possible exemptions and the others aren't? You're all over the place here.

How am I all over the place? Florida is clearly the best team in the nation right now. They have proven it with their schedule. Arizona has been near the top all year. They both have 2 loses on the season in a big conference. Florida's RPI is 3, Arizona's RPI is 1. Florida has won 21 straight games. Arizona has 10 wins against top 50 RPI teams. So yea, they are the exceptions. And if you even say Wichita State, I don't count them due to the difficulty of schedule and weaker conference.

Before I go down this rabbit hole....what are you using to determine SOS? The few spots I have gone have FL in the 35 - 45 range and the SEC lagging behind the ACC for the 4/5 best conference. I'm not sure FL ranks in the top 50 of any relevant categories (except w/l obviously).

 

[jon_mx]

Virginia is overrated. Schedule wasn't nearly as hard as any of the other top teams in the ACC (Duke, UNC, Pitt, Syracuse). I wouldn't be surprised if those 4 are still there in the tourney when Virginia is eliminated. They have a decent team, don't get me wrong, but far from what the standings in the ACC say.

Florida is my best team in the country right now.

I do think the tourney will come down to one of the following teams winning it all: Florida, Arizona, Duke, Michigan St, Wisconsin, or Kansas. Whoever can get hot at the right time.

Virginia was 14 a week or so ago.....how much further down do you think they should be ranked?

Im not necessarily saying they are overrated in the polls, because those don't really matter anyways. They are overrated with all the attention they are getting. Unless they win the ACC tournament, they better not get a 1 or 2 seed.

No one is talking about them....even in the ACC (until this week of course). It's pretty shameful. Who are the 8 teams that are clearly better than them, have had better wins and have been playing better basketball than them? Also, how much of this team have you actually watched? It's bizarre that you say the polls don't matter but yet claim they are overrated. The polls are the rating system we have

I've watched at least 4 games of theirs. Im also a basketball junkie, so I try to watch as much as possible. Im sure to the average fan, they may have watched the Cuse game and that's it. Everyone is going to be on their nuts this week. I like the way they play, and I think they are a solid team, but overrated.

Top teams: Florida, Wichita State, Kansas, Arizona, Wisconsin, Syracuse, San Diego St, Villanova, Louisville, Cincinnati, Duke, Michigan, Creighton. All these teams could be in the conversation of being better. Not saying they clearly are, but one could argue.

This is different than saying "they shouldn't be a 1 or 2 seed" as the definitive statement you made above. Easy arguments can be made against half the teams in your list, including my Michigan Wolverines and they'd be very strong arguments, especially if you put them head to head.

Anything short of an ACC tourney championship should not warrant them a 1 or 2 seed. Simple as that. That is what I said earlier. With all the parity in this years college basketball, unless you are a conference tourney champion, it will be hard to warrant a top seed, unless you are Florida or maybe Arizona.

Why are Florida and Arizona possible exemptions and the others aren't? You're all over the place here.

How am I all over the place? Florida is clearly the best team in the nation right now. They have proven it with their schedule. Arizona has been near the top all year. They both have 2 loses on the season in a big conference. Florida's RPI is 3, Arizona's RPI is 1. Florida has won 21 straight games. Arizona has 10 wins against top 50 RPI teams. So yea, they are the exceptions. And if you even say Wichita State, I don't count them due to the difficulty of schedule and weaker conference.

Before I go down this rabbit hole....what are you using to determine SOS? The few spots I have gone have FL in the 35 - 45 range and the SEC lagging behind the ACC for the 4/5 best conference. I'm not sure FL ranks in the top 50 of any relevant categories (except w/l obviously).

2-2 against top 25....not exactly proven.

 

[Timmay]

Virginia is overrated. Schedule wasn't nearly as hard as any of the other top teams in the ACC (Duke, UNC, Pitt, Syracuse). I wouldn't be surprised if those 4 are still there in the tourney when Virginia is eliminated. They have a decent team, don't get me wrong, but far from what the standings in the ACC say.

Florida is my best team in the country right now.

I do think the tourney will come down to one of the following teams winning it all: Florida, Arizona, Duke, Michigan St, Wisconsin, or Kansas. Whoever can get hot at the right time.

Virginia was 14 a week or so ago.....how much further down do you think they should be ranked?

Im not necessarily saying they are overrated in the polls, because those don't really matter anyways. They are overrated with all the attention they are getting. Unless they win the ACC tournament, they better not get a 1 or 2 seed.

No one is talking about them....even in the ACC (until this week of course). It's pretty shameful. Who are the 8 teams that are clearly better than them, have had better wins and have been playing better basketball than them? Also, how much of this team have you actually watched? It's bizarre that you say the polls don't matter but yet claim they are overrated. The polls are the rating system we have

I've watched at least 4 games of theirs. Im also a basketball junkie, so I try to watch as much as possible. Im sure to the average fan, they may have watched the Cuse game and that's it. Everyone is going to be on their nuts this week. I like the way they play, and I think they are a solid team, but overrated.

Top teams: Florida, Wichita State, Kansas, Arizona, Wisconsin, Syracuse, San Diego St, Villanova, Louisville, Cincinnati, Duke, Michigan, Creighton. All these teams could be in the conversation of being better. Not saying they clearly are, but one could argue.

This is different than saying "they shouldn't be a 1 or 2 seed" as the definitive statement you made above. Easy arguments can be made against half the teams in your list, including my Michigan Wolverines and they'd be very strong arguments, especially if you put them head to head.

Anything short of an ACC tourney championship should not warrant them a 1 or 2 seed. Simple as that. That is what I said earlier. With all the parity in this years college basketball, unless you are a conference tourney champion, it will be hard to warrant a top seed, unless you are Florida or maybe Arizona.

Why are Florida and Arizona possible exemptions and the others aren't? You're all over the place here.

How am I all over the place? Florida is clearly the best team in the nation right now. They have proven it with their schedule. Arizona has been near the top all year. They both have 2 loses on the season in a big conference. Florida's RPI is 3, Arizona's RPI is 1. Florida has won 21 straight games. Arizona has 10 wins against top 50 RPI teams. So yea, they are the exceptions. And if you even say Wichita State, I don't count them due to the difficulty of schedule and weaker conference.

Before I go down this rabbit hole....what are you using to determine SOS? The few spots I have gone have FL in the 35 - 45 range and the SEC lagging behind the ACC for the 4/5 best conference. I'm not sure FL ranks in the top 50 of any relevant categories (except w/l obviously).

Sure. Florida- 14th SOS. Here is my link. http://www.cbssports.com/collegebasketball/teams/rpi/FLA/florida-gators I have never seen 35-45 for Florida.

 

[Scoresman]

Florida has the 43rd most difficult schedule according to kenpom efficiency numbers.

 

[The Commish]

Sure. Florida- 14th SOS. Here is my link. http://www.cbssports.com/collegebasketball/teams/rpi/FLA/florida-gators I have never seen 35-45 for Florida.

Well, that explains it...thanks. I need not go down this rabbit hole. We're coming at this from two completely different sets of data.

 

[jon_mx]

54th in Sagarin

 

[FreeBaGeL]

No one is talking about them....even in the ACC (until this week of course). It's pretty shameful. Who are the 8 teams that are clearly better than them, have had better wins and have been playing better basketball than them? Also, how much of this team have you actually watched? It's bizarre that you say the polls don't matter but yet claim they are overrated. The polls are the rating system we have

You tend to fixate on the polls when people bring up the term "overrated". I'm pretty sure he was referring to the context that they were being discussed in this thread as a 2 seed at worst and possibly in the discussion for best team.

They're a 5 loss team with one win over a ranked opponent. A ranked opponent who just happens to be losing to everyone right now, no less.

 

[Timmay]

Sure. Florida- 14th SOS. Here is my link. http://www.cbssports.com/collegebasketball/teams/rpi/FLA/florida-gators I have never seen 35-45 for Florida.

Well, that explains it...thanks. I need not go down this rabbit hole. We're coming at this from two completely different sets of data.

This other set of data doesn't seem to matter much when it comes to RPI and Polls. Hell I can put my name on a bunch of SOS's and call it correct. Regardless of SOS all the reasons for Florida being a top seed is there.

 

[Ramblin Wreck]

People tend to point to KenPom's rankings as being pretty solid. He has Virginia #2 behind Arizona.

 

[FreeBaGeL]

2-2 against top 25....not exactly proven.

They're actually 3-1 against the current top 25.

I agree that the SEC schedule has done them no favors in getting ready for the tourney, but they did play a tough OOC schedule. It's also worth noting that their two losses were pretty "good" ones as far as losses come. An unlucky bounce into a buzzer beater against a good UConn team and a close loss to a top 15 Wisconsin team where Florida was playing without its best player (Wilbekin) and another important player (Finney-Smith). Honestly, Florida hanging with Wisconsin into the final minute of a game where they were basically playing 5-deep and without their best player is nearly as impressive as any win a team has picked up this year.

 

[Timmay]

2-2 against top 25....not exactly proven.

They're actually 3-1 against the current top 25.

I agree that the SEC schedule has done them no favors in getting ready for the tourney, but they did play a tough OOC schedule. It's also worth noting that their two losses were pretty "good" ones as far as losses come. An unlucky bounce into a buzzer beater against a good UConn team and a close loss to a top 15 Wisconsin team where Florida was playing without its best player (Wilbekin) and another important player (Finney-Smith). Honestly, Florida hanging with Wisconsin into the final minute of a game where they were basically playing 5-deep and without their best player is nearly as impressive as any win a team has picked up this year.

Florida's 2 loses were @ Wisconsin by 6 points and @ UConn by 1 point. Both earlier in the year.

Oh Virginia lost to those same Badgers team by 10 @ HOME, in a terrible game. 48-38.

 

[Scoresman]

In terms of Tournament champ credentials, Florida's SOS is more than enough to put them in the discussion for best team.

In fact there are some numbers that have been crunched that indicate that having too tough a schedule can leave teams a bit worn down for the tournament. The best performance against tournament seed numbers come from SOS in the 10-50 range.

 

[PlasmaDogPlasma]

They're actually 3-1 against the current top 25.

Is UK still ranked? When does the new poll come out?

 

[The Commish]

No one is talking about them....even in the ACC (until this week of course). It's pretty shameful. Who are the 8 teams that are clearly better than them, have had better wins and have been playing better basketball than them? Also, how much of this team have you actually watched? It's bizarre that you say the polls don't matter but yet claim they are overrated. The polls are the rating system we have

You tend to fixate on the polls when people bring up the term "overrated". I'm pretty sure he was referring to the context that they were being discussed in this thread as a 2 seed at worst and possibly in the discussion for best team.

They're a 5 loss team with one win over a ranked opponent. A ranked opponent who just happens to be losing to everyone right now, no less.

Fixated? That's what we have for the ratings of teams What else should I use? If you don't like my going to the polls, what metric do you want used? My question will still stand though. XXXXXXX source has them rated at Z, why do you feel that's an overrating?

 

[Ilov80s]

Virginia at 22 to 1 is probably the best bet on the board. Michigan at 28/1 and Wichita State at 12/1 would be my next picks. This year picking the field at 50/1 might be interesting.

Florida 5/1 Kansas 7/1 Michigan State 8/1 Syracuse 10/1 Duke 10/1 Arizona 10/1 Louisville 10/1 Wichita State 12/1 Kentucky 12/1 Creighton 20/1 Virginia 22/1 Villanova 22/1 Wisconsin 25/1 Michigan 28/1 Ohio State 30/1 Saint Louis 35/1 Iowa State 35/1 Iowa 35/1 North Carolina 40/1 UCLA 50/1 Field (Any Other Team) 50/1

MSU at 8/1 might be the worst bet.

 

[The Commish]

Sure. Florida- 14th SOS. Here is my link. http://www.cbssports.com/collegebasketball/teams/rpi/FLA/florida-gators I have never seen 35-45 for Florida.

Well, that explains it...thanks. I need not go down this rabbit hole. We're coming at this from two completely different sets of data.

This other set of data doesn't seem to matter much when it comes to RPI and Polls. Hell I can put my name on a bunch of SOS's and call it correct. Regardless of SOS all the reasons for Florida being a top seed is there.

Unless you're on the committee who looks at way more than the polls and RPI. I was simply asking why Florida was excluded from not having to win their conference tournament and still be considered a "top seed" (I was assuming you meant a 1 seed, but can see the wiggle room you left yourself to be talking about a 2 seed as well). It appears that your argument is "because the RPI and polls say so". Which is fine....carry on.

 

[The Commish]

2-2 against top 25....not exactly proven.

They're actually 3-1 against the current top 25.

I agree that the SEC schedule has done them no favors in getting ready for the tourney, but they did play a tough OOC schedule. It's also worth noting that their two losses were pretty "good" ones as far as losses come. An unlucky bounce into a buzzer beater against a good UConn team and a close loss to a top 15 Wisconsin team where Florida was playing without its best player (Wilbekin) and another important player (Finney-Smith). Honestly, Florida hanging with Wisconsin into the final minute of a game where they were basically playing 5-deep and without their best player is nearly as impressive as any win a team has picked up this year.

Florida's 2 loses were @ Wisconsin by 6 points and @ UConn by 1 point. Both earlier in the year.

Oh Virginia lost to those same Badgers team by 10 @ HOME, in a terrible game. 48-38.

You forgot "earlier in the year" for the UVa game as well I assume that matters in your mind (and it should....for all teams). I think we need to compare "bad wins" as well unless you don't subscribe to that theory. Things like winning by 2-3 when you should win by double digits going away etc.

 

[Timmay]

Virginia at 22 to 1 is probably the best bet on the board. Michigan at 28/1 and Wichita State at 12/1 would be my next picks. This year picking the field at 50/1 might be interesting.

Florida 5/1 Kansas 7/1 Michigan State 8/1 Syracuse 10/1 Duke 10/1 Arizona 10/1 Louisville 10/1 Wichita State 12/1 Kentucky 12/1 Creighton 20/1 Virginia 22/1 Villanova 22/1 Wisconsin 25/1 Michigan 28/1 Ohio State 30/1 Saint Louis 35/1 Iowa State 35/1 Iowa 35/1 North Carolina 40/1 UCLA 50/1 Field (Any Other Team) 50/1

MSU at 8/1 might be the worst bet.

It's crazy that Kentucky is still 12-1.

 

[FreeBaGeL]

No one is talking about them....even in the ACC (until this week of course). It's pretty shameful. Who are the 8 teams that are clearly better than them, have had better wins and have been playing better basketball than them? Also, how much of this team have you actually watched? It's bizarre that you say the polls don't matter but yet claim they are overrated. The polls are the rating system we have

You tend to fixate on the polls when people bring up the term "overrated". I'm pretty sure he was referring to the context that they were being discussed in this thread as a 2 seed at worst and possibly in the discussion for best team.

They're a 5 loss team with one win over a ranked opponent. A ranked opponent who just happens to be losing to everyone right now, no less.

Fixated? That's what we have for the ratings of teams What else should I use? If you don't like my going to the polls, what metric do you want used? My question will still stand though. XXXXXXX source has them rated at Z, why do you feel that's an overrating?

I thought I made that pretty clear. "In the context they were being discussed".

We have our own little sub community of basketball discussion here, and that community had spent the entire last page all over UVA's jock citing them as "in the discussion for best team in the country" and a #1 or #2 seed in the tourney. I thought it was pretty clear that was the context he was talking about "overrated" in, not their #14 ranking in the AP poll.

Any time you see the word "overrated" or "underrated" you immediately reference some poll or metric that's usually almost a week out of date and has nothing to do with what that person was referencing, while completely disreging that team's perception within this sub-community which is often what they were referencing. You don't need a metric for everything.

ETA: Re-reading that it sounds somewhat hostile, wasn't meant to come off that way.

 

[Timmay]

2-2 against top 25....not exactly proven.

They're actually 3-1 against the current top 25.

I agree that the SEC schedule has done them no favors in getting ready for the tourney, but they did play a tough OOC schedule. It's also worth noting that their two losses were pretty "good" ones as far as losses come. An unlucky bounce into a buzzer beater against a good UConn team and a close loss to a top 15 Wisconsin team where Florida was playing without its best player (Wilbekin) and another important player (Finney-Smith). Honestly, Florida hanging with Wisconsin into the final minute of a game where they were basically playing 5-deep and without their best player is nearly as impressive as any win a team has picked up this year.

Florida's 2 loses were @ Wisconsin by 6 points and @ UConn by 1 point. Both earlier in the year.

Oh Virginia lost to those same Badgers team by 10 @ HOME, in a terrible game. 48-38.

You forgot "earlier in the year" for the UVa game as well I assume that matters in your mind (and it should....for all teams). I think we need to compare "bad wins" as well unless you don't subscribe to that theory. Things like winning by 2-3 when you should win by double digits going away etc.

I don't have time right now to go back and look at all the "bad wins", but they should matter very little. Should a team who is favored in most of their games be penalized (Florida) over a team who was probably underdogs in the majority of their early season out of conference and in conference games? (Virginia). Just because Virginia wasn't favored to win in certain games, does that give them more credit? I don't think it should.

My point with the Florida losses, is that they really don't have any "bad losses".

As for Virginia, they have 2 glaring losses, that don't look like "good losses". @ Green Bay by 3 and @ Tennessee by 35,

 

[17seconds]

Should be a fun tournament. There are no great teams.

 

[jon_mx]

Virginia at 22 to 1 is probably the best bet on the board. Michigan at 28/1 and Wichita State at 12/1 would be my next picks. This year picking the field at 50/1 might be interesting.

Florida 5/1 Kansas 7/1 Michigan State 8/1 Syracuse 10/1 Duke 10/1 Arizona 10/1 Louisville 10/1 Wichita State 12/1 Kentucky 12/1 Creighton 20/1 Virginia 22/1 Villanova 22/1 Wisconsin 25/1 Michigan 28/1 Ohio State 30/1 Saint Louis 35/1 Iowa State 35/1 Iowa 35/1 North Carolina 40/1 UCLA 50/1 Field (Any Other Team) 50/1

MSU at 8/1 might be the worst bet.

Must be a few weeks old. But the Izzo factor probably helps. Kentucky should be a 40-1 shot. Maybe 100-1 based on their ranking, but with their talent it is conceivable that they find a switch to flip on and start actually trying to win.

 

[The General]

Michigan at 28/1 seems really nice.

 

[Ramblin Wreck]

2-2 against top 25....not exactly proven.

They're actually 3-1 against the current top 25.

I agree that the SEC schedule has done them no favors in getting ready for the tourney, but they did play a tough OOC schedule. It's also worth noting that their two losses were pretty "good" ones as far as losses come. An unlucky bounce into a buzzer beater against a good UConn team and a close loss to a top 15 Wisconsin team where Florida was playing without its best player (Wilbekin) and another important player (Finney-Smith). Honestly, Florida hanging with Wisconsin into the final minute of a game where they were basically playing 5-deep and without their best player is nearly as impressive as any win a team has picked up this year.

Florida's 2 loses were @ Wisconsin by 6 points and @ UConn by 1 point. Both earlier in the year.

Oh Virginia lost to those same Badgers team by 10 @ HOME, in a terrible game. 48-38.

You forgot "earlier in the year" for the UVa game as well I assume that matters in your mind (and it should....for all teams). I think we need to compare "bad wins" as well unless you don't subscribe to that theory. Things like winning by 2-3 when you should win by double digits going away etc.

I don't have time right now to go back and look at all the "bad wins", but they should matter very little. Should a team who is favored in most of their games be penalized (Florida) over a team who was probably underdogs in the majority of their early season out of conference and in conference games? (Virginia). Just because Virginia wasn't favored to win in certain games, does that give them more credit? I don't think it should.

My point with the Florida losses, is that they really don't have any "bad losses".

As for Virginia, they have 2 glaring losses, that don't look like "good losses". @ Green Bay by 3 and @ Tennessee by 35,

I think Florida is very good myself and at this point would put them and Arizona in the championship game of a bracket but I have the same concerns about them I have about Wichita St. They haven't played anyone good since Christmas.

No idea why you're in a Florida vs Virginia fight. What are those two teams even battling for? Florida is getting a #1 seed. UVA is getting a #1 seed if they beat Maryland and win the ACC Tournament. Otherwise they aren't and no one is even arguing they should get one without winning out.

 

[The Commish]

No one is talking about them....even in the ACC (until this week of course). It's pretty shameful. Who are the 8 teams that are clearly better than them, have had better wins and have been playing better basketball than them? Also, how much of this team have you actually watched? It's bizarre that you say the polls don't matter but yet claim they are overrated. The polls are the rating system we have

You tend to fixate on the polls when people bring up the term "overrated". I'm pretty sure he was referring to the context that they were being discussed in this thread as a 2 seed at worst and possibly in the discussion for best team.

They're a 5 loss team with one win over a ranked opponent. A ranked opponent who just happens to be losing to everyone right now, no less.

Fixated? That's what we have for the ratings of teams What else should I use? If you don't like my going to the polls, what metric do you want used? My question will still stand though. XXXXXXX source has them rated at Z, why do you feel that's an overrating?

I thought I made that pretty clear. "In the context they were being discussed".

We have our own little sub community of basketball discussion here, and that community had spent the entire last page all over UVA's jock citing them as "in the discussion for best team in the country" and a #1 or #2 seed in the tourney. I thought it was pretty clear that was the context he was talking about "overrated" in, not their #14 ranking in the AP poll.

Any time you see the word "overrated" or "underrated" you immediately reference some poll or metric that's usually almost a week out of date and has nothing to do with what that person was referencing, while completely disreging that team's perception within this sub-community which is often what they were referencing. You don't need a metric for everything.

ETA: Re-reading that it sounds somewhat hostile, wasn't meant to come off that way.

The first UVa was mentioned was 389....At 399 the "overrated" shtick comes out. Post 389 wasn't even making a case for them being "the best". It was a suggestion. I chimed in with how embarrassing it was that UVa is getting little run anywhere, especially here on tobacco road" in between as well. No one here was gushing over UVa as if they thought they were king ding-a-ling or anything. Then my comments to Timmay took exception with Florida not having to win their conference tournament to be considered in the top 8 and I was asking for the logic behind that. To me, there is no team in the country that has the "benefit of the doubt" this year, so obviously I disagree with that.

But yeah, when people start using "overrated" I typically think of the rating systems used in the game. If you're just looking at the microcosm that is the FFA the assertion of "overrated" is even more ridiculous as no one has talked about UVa at all here until this last week. It's hard to get less rated than what they were and now they are because someone mentioned them, they are overrated? Doesn't really hold water IMO. UVa has a very good team that no one is talking about....they are far from overrated no matter what metric you want to use.

 

[The Commish]

To be clear....I wasn't attempting to compare Florida and Virginia. I had issue with two things:

1. The first mention of a pretty good UVa team and they are "overrated".

2. Florida being exempt from the criteria of everyone else because of the schedule they played.

I disagree with both. I know it's been said several times this in this very thread, most recently by RW...there is no "best" team this year. No one gets a pass IMO.

 

[Oscar]

I think this year more than any other that I can recall has the best chance to see a #16 seed beat a #1 seed in the Tourney. As I think of the prospective #1 seeds, I can't imagine it happening, however the level of parity this year is overwhelming.

 

[jon_mx]

I think this year more than any other that I can recall has the best chance to see a #16 seed beat a #1 seed in the Tourney. As I think of the prospective #1 seeds, I can't imagine it happening, however the level of parity this year is overwhelming.

Considering it has never happened before, this year has to have a better chance.

 

[FreeBaGeL]

The first UVa was mentioned was 389....At 399 the "overrated" shtick comes out. Post 389 wasn't even making a case for them being "the best". It was a suggestion. I chimed in with how embarrassing it was that UVa is getting little run anywhere, especially here on tobacco road" in between as well. No one here was gushing over UVa as if they thought they were king ding-a-ling or anything. Then my comments to Timmay took exception with Florida not having to win their conference tournament to be considered in the top 8 and I was asking for the logic behind that. To me, there is no team in the country that has the "benefit of the doubt" this year, so obviously I disagree with that.


But yeah, when people start using "overrated" I typically think of the rating systems used in the game. If you're just looking at the microcosm that is the FFA the assertion of "overrated" is even more ridiculous as no one has talked about UVa at all here until this last week. It's hard to get less rated than what they were and now they are because someone mentioned them, they are overrated? Doesn't really hold water IMO. UVa has a very good team that no one is talking about....they are far from overrated no matter what metric you want to use.

What was said a week ago is irrelevant. He was talking about the discussion at hand, which had turned to "maybe Virginia is the best team". He was saying they don't belong in that discussion. Given that they're a 5 loss team with one win over a (struggling) ranked opponent, I don't think that's an unfair thing to say.

If you want to pick on the semantics of a single word in an off the cuff sentence at the beginning of his explanation and give us a history of the last 23 year's of Virginia basketball's perception in the media and polls, then that's your deal. You seem to have a problem with the word itself (hence your assertion that any time the word is ever used it's "schtick"). Everything need not be taken so literally.

 

[Timmay]

2-2 against top 25....not exactly proven.

They're actually 3-1 against the current top 25.

I agree that the SEC schedule has done them no favors in getting ready for the tourney, but they did play a tough OOC schedule. It's also worth noting that their two losses were pretty "good" ones as far as losses come. An unlucky bounce into a buzzer beater against a good UConn team and a close loss to a top 15 Wisconsin team where Florida was playing without its best player (Wilbekin) and another important player (Finney-Smith). Honestly, Florida hanging with Wisconsin into the final minute of a game where they were basically playing 5-deep and without their best player is nearly as impressive as any win a team has picked up this year.

Florida's 2 loses were @ Wisconsin by 6 points and @ UConn by 1 point. Both earlier in the year.

Oh Virginia lost to those same Badgers team by 10 @ HOME, in a terrible game. 48-38.

You forgot "earlier in the year" for the UVa game as well I assume that matters in your mind (and it should....for all teams). I think we need to compare "bad wins" as well unless you don't subscribe to that theory. Things like winning by 2-3 when you should win by double digits going away etc.

I don't have time right now to go back and look at all the "bad wins", but they should matter very little. Should a team who is favored in most of their games be penalized (Florida) over a team who was probably underdogs in the majority of their early season out of conference and in conference games? (Virginia). Just because Virginia wasn't favored to win in certain games, does that give them more credit? I don't think it should.

My point with the Florida losses, is that they really don't have any "bad losses".

As for Virginia, they have 2 glaring losses, that don't look like "good losses". @ Green Bay by 3 and @ Tennessee by 35,

I think Florida is very good myself and at this point would put them and Arizona in the championship game of a bracket but I have the same concerns about them I have about Wichita St. They haven't played anyone good since Christmas.

No idea why you're in a Florida vs Virginia fight. What are those two teams even battling for? Florida is getting a #1 seed. UVA is getting a #1 seed if they beat Maryland and win the ACC Tournament. Otherwise they aren't and no one is even arguing they should get one without winning out.

Im not arguing Florida vs Virginia.

Florida got involved in my UVA posts, because I said UVA shouldnt get a 1 or 2 seed unless they win the ACC tourney. Only exception of a team not winning their conference tourney and still getting a #1 seed in my book is Florida and maybe Arizona. Commish argued why Florida with that SOS. So I was contrasting Florida and Virginia with their bad/good losses.

 

[Ramblin Wreck]

The first UVa was mentioned was 389....At 399 the "overrated" shtick comes out. Post 389 wasn't even making a case for them being "the best". It was a suggestion. I chimed in with how embarrassing it was that UVa is getting little run anywhere, especially here on tobacco road" in between as well. No one here was gushing over UVa as if they thought they were king ding-a-ling or anything. Then my comments to Timmay took exception with Florida not having to win their conference tournament to be considered in the top 8 and I was asking for the logic behind that. To me, there is no team in the country that has the "benefit of the doubt" this year, so obviously I disagree with that.


But yeah, when people start using "overrated" I typically think of the rating systems used in the game. If you're just looking at the microcosm that is the FFA the assertion of "overrated" is even more ridiculous as no one has talked about UVa at all here until this last week. It's hard to get less rated than what they were and now they are because someone mentioned them, they are overrated? Doesn't really hold water IMO. UVa has a very good team that no one is talking about....they are far from overrated no matter what metric you want to use.

What was said a week ago is irrelevant. He was talking about the discussion at hand, which had turned to "maybe Virginia is the best team". He was saying they don't belong in that discussion. Given that they're a 5 loss team with one win over a (struggling) ranked opponent, I don't think that's an unfair thing to say.

If you want to pick on the semantics of a single word in an off the cuff sentence at the beginning of his explanation and give us a history of the last 23 year's of Virginia basketball's perception in the media and polls, then that's your deal. You seem to have a problem with the word itself (hence your assertion that any time the word is ever used it's "schtick"). Everything need not be taken so literally.

Arguing the best team is stupid because most times there isn't a right answer, or one that can be proven to be 100% correct anyway. I think it's fair to suggest Virginia has been as good as anyone since conference play started though if you've followed them for the last several weeks.

 

[The Commish]

The first UVa was mentioned was 389....At 399 the "overrated" shtick comes out. Post 389 wasn't even making a case for them being "the best". It was a suggestion. I chimed in with how embarrassing it was that UVa is getting little run anywhere, especially here on tobacco road" in between as well. No one here was gushing over UVa as if they thought they were king ding-a-ling or anything. Then my comments to Timmay took exception with Florida not having to win their conference tournament to be considered in the top 8 and I was asking for the logic behind that. To me, there is no team in the country that has the "benefit of the doubt" this year, so obviously I disagree with that.


But yeah, when people start using "overrated" I typically think of the rating systems used in the game. If you're just looking at the microcosm that is the FFA the assertion of "overrated" is even more ridiculous as no one has talked about UVa at all here until this last week. It's hard to get less rated than what they were and now they are because someone mentioned them, they are overrated? Doesn't really hold water IMO. UVa has a very good team that no one is talking about....they are far from overrated no matter what metric you want to use.

What was said a week ago is irrelevant. He was talking about the discussion at hand, which had turned to "maybe Virginia is the best team". He was saying they don't belong in that discussion. Given that they're a 5 loss team with one win over a (struggling) ranked opponent, I don't think that's an unfair thing to say.

If you want to pick on the semantics of a single word in an off the cuff sentence at the beginning of his explanation and give us a history of the last 23 year's of Virginia basketball's perception in the media and polls, then that's your deal. You seem to have a problem with the word itself (hence your assertion that any time the word is ever used it's "schtick"). Everything need not be taken so literally.

The post about UVa was from yesterday The "overrated" part I explained and have let go. You should also. I tried to make clear my points in a subsequent post. Feel free to check them out if you care to. I don't see them (Florida) being exempt from the other teams in the country as far as their body of work goes. If the others need to be winning their tournaments, so does Florida. If the FFA considers UVa overrated because we started talking about how well they've been playing recently, so be it. No skin off my back. I just think it odd to proclaim the team overrated at the first mention of how well they were playing. That's all.

 

[FreeBaGeL]

The post about UVa was from yesterday

I was referring to your insinuation that UVA couldn't possibly be "overrated" because no one was talking about them a week ago, not implying that we started having the discussion about UVA a week ago.

Feel free to check them out if you care to. I don't see them (Florida) being exempt from the other teams in the country as far as their body of work goes. If the others need to be winning their tournaments, so does Florida.

No one is exempting Florida from having their body of work examined. It's just that the body of work of Florida and UVA aren't really similar.

Yes, both teams played easy conference schedules. But Florida has 3 fewer losses, played a much more difficult out of conference schedule, won 3x as many games against ranked opponents, and didn't have any embarrassing losses of which UVA had several. As was mentioned previously, Florida could very easily be undefeated right now. They got a bad bounce in the last second on the road at UConn, and went step for step with a top 15 Wisconsin team on the road while missing 3 of their 8 players that actually see court time. There's a huge difference in the body of work of UVA and that of Florida.

As to your last point, I'm fairly confident that if Florida wins out this week then it's a 100% lock that they'll end up as a 1 or 2 seed in the tourney even if they lose in the first game of their conference tourney. The same can't be said for UVA. Maybe they would, maybe not. Why Florida and not them? Because Florida has won more games, beaten more good teams, and lost to fewer bad teams. It's pretty simple, really.

I just think it odd to proclaim the team overrated at the first mention of how well they were playing. That's all.

There's a place between "no one is talking about them" and "maybe this is actually the best team in the country", especially when the team in question has more losses to unranked opponents than they have wins against ranked opponents. I think this is all that Timmay was trying to say. You just got fixated on one word that, while it was probably a bad way of explaining what he was trying to say, was really no big deal.

 

[The Commish]

Whole lotta strawmen here. I'll just stop at this point. I tried to make clearer what I was saying. That's all I can do.

 

[Scoresman]

Here's some SOS trivia.

Since SOS data started being collected in the mid-80s,

a) how many teams going into the dance with the #1 SOS won the tournament?

b) how many teams going into the dance with the number 1 SOS made the Final Four?

Answers in spoilers below.

Spoiler

a) a big fat ZERO

Spoiler

b) only one

 

[Good Posting Judge]

Pat Forde's slam-piece on Calipari (who I'm no fan of) reminds me of Grantland's #hotsportstakes bit.

 

[jon_mx]

Here's some SOS trivia.

Since SOS data started being collected in the mid-80s,

a) how many teams going into the dance with the #1 SOS won the tournament?

b) how many teams going into the dance with the number 1 SOS made the Final Four?

Answers in spoilers below.

Spoiler

a) a big fat ZERO

Spoiler

b) only one

Part of that is that it is hard for the best teams to have the strongest schedule. Say the ACC has the top ranked team in the county and the 5th ranked team in the country and the 10th ranked team in the country, and they play all teams in the conference twice. The unranked teams will have a much stronger in conference SOS than the three ranked teams, and the 10th ranked team will have a stronger SOS than the #1 ranked team.

 

[Bruce Dickinson]

Pat Forde's slam-piece on Calipari (who I'm no fan of) reminds me of Grantland's #hotsportstakes bit.

Yeah that was some spiteful, sizzling #hotsportstakes #### there.

 

[PlasmaDogPlasma]

They're actually 3-1 against the current top 25.

Is UK still ranked? When does the new poll come out?

lol, they are still ranked. What a joke

 

[PlasmaDogPlasma]

Seriously, wtf has happened to Syracuse?

 

[jon_mx]

Tonight Michigan was the best team in college basketball.....15-23 from 3-pt land....you can't beat that. But you probably can't count on that.

 

[PlasmaDogPlasma]

Tonight Michigan was the best team in college basketball.....15-23 from 3-pt land....you can't beat that. But you probably can't count on that.

Michael Frazier II of Florida was 11/18 from 3 tonight

 

[jon_mx]

Tonight Michigan was the best team in college basketball.....15-23 from 3-pt land....you can't beat that. But you probably can't count on that.

Michael Frazier II of Florida was 11/18 from 3 tonight

Stauskus.....7 of 9....78% > Michigan 15 of 23...65% > Frazier 11 of 18...61%