Respectablity is Reached?--Washington Wizards 2014-2015 Regular Season (3 Viewers)

[thecatch]

It may be a little too early to be griping about your 20 year old, borderline all star caliber SG, even if his 2 pt FG% leaves something to be desired.

 

[TobiasFunke]

It may be a little too early to be griping about your 20 year old, borderline all star caliber SG, even if his 2 pt FG% leaves something to be desired.

Which is why I hesitated to even use the word "concerned." Just some less-than-ideal stuff I'd noticed.

 

[tommyGunZ]

I don't know if "concerned" is the right word to use about a 20 year old, but is anyone else getting a little concerned about Beal? I'm not worried about the long 2s, those are infuriating but I blame coaching and youth, although it's not a good sign that a higher percentage of his attempts are midrange jumpers than last season. I'm more worried about the number of defensive/rebounding lapses. His rebound rate is also down from last year. Block and steal rates down a bit too, as are the advanced defense stats. Small declines, hopefully just noise, but he's not really progressing the way I hoped he would (and the way everyone seems to be assuming he is without bothering to check.

He's just not at the level of consistency you would want to see from him but as you said youth and coaching are clearly not in his favor right now.I asked this before but got no reply.Why doesn't Wittman run a Wall/Beal 2 man game outside more often(very few times if any I have seen this)?

Seems to me that this could work with as quick as Wall is but I could be wrong.

It is troubling to see his game not progressing the way it should but I think he has the skills to be that player they need him to be given the right situations around him.

I'm not a coach but from what I can tell, a two-man ISO is hard to run and requires a ridiculous amount of chemistry and experience between two guys, as well as a decent number of guys who can shoot the three well enough to really give them room to move, something the Wiz could only do if they went small with Ariza at the 4 (something Wizards Twitter is clamoring for after the Nene injury, so maybe you're on to something). Also seems like in most of the combos that do it right, one of the guys has some size to create mismatches.

Unfortunately it's a hard subject to Google b/c there's a prominent Mavs blog called The Two Man Game that messes with the results.

Yeah I brought up earlier the 4 small lineup and if Wittman would actually do it on a regular basis or even try it for an extended period.They already are gonna be getting beat down low most nights anyways with Nene out so why not throw your best shooters out and force the other team to defend them all.Wall/Beal 2 man could be one of the sets to run off of this but agree the timing has to be right to make it work.

Just throwing things out I see and clearly I'm no coach either.

Like I said, most of the guys I listen to on the Wiz want to see the small lineup too after the Nene injury, so I think you're on to something. If it's good enough for the Heat it's good enough for us.

FWIW George Karl(for the love of god please sign this man to coach the team) was saying on ESPN(or some program I was watching)that the Zards would be better with Nene out of the lineup.I don't buy into that but if they did go small it does have a chance of working.Great test coming up with the Raptors on deck so we will see what they do against a good team who can exploit them on defense.

I don't doubt that such a small-ball lineup could work occasionally, but I can't imagine a lineup with Ariza at the 4 not getting pounded if used for extended minutes. Clear-outs and ISOs for any decent sized 4 would just be too easy, and it's not as if Ariza is enough of a shooter to make opponents pay for the mismatch on the other end.

Glad to see Washington becoming a factor. Probably not fair to criticize the Wiz for passing on Faried since he went so much later, but I do remember Washington being discussed as a potential home for Kawhi at the time. Future would be so much brighter with him in red, white and blue.

 

[TobiasFunke]

I don't know if "concerned" is the right word to use about a 20 year old, but is anyone else getting a little concerned about Beal? I'm not worried about the long 2s, those are infuriating but I blame coaching and youth, although it's not a good sign that a higher percentage of his attempts are midrange jumpers than last season. I'm more worried about the number of defensive/rebounding lapses. His rebound rate is also down from last year. Block and steal rates down a bit too, as are the advanced defense stats. Small declines, hopefully just noise, but he's not really progressing the way I hoped he would (and the way everyone seems to be assuming he is without bothering to check.

He's just not at the level of consistency you would want to see from him but as you said youth and coaching are clearly not in his favor right now.I asked this before but got no reply.Why doesn't Wittman run a Wall/Beal 2 man game outside more often(very few times if any I have seen this)?

Seems to me that this could work with as quick as Wall is but I could be wrong.

It is troubling to see his game not progressing the way it should but I think he has the skills to be that player they need him to be given the right situations around him.

I'm not a coach but from what I can tell, a two-man ISO is hard to run and requires a ridiculous amount of chemistry and experience between two guys, as well as a decent number of guys who can shoot the three well enough to really give them room to move, something the Wiz could only do if they went small with Ariza at the 4 (something Wizards Twitter is clamoring for after the Nene injury, so maybe you're on to something). Also seems like in most of the combos that do it right, one of the guys has some size to create mismatches.

Unfortunately it's a hard subject to Google b/c there's a prominent Mavs blog called The Two Man Game that messes with the results.

Yeah I brought up earlier the 4 small lineup and if Wittman would actually do it on a regular basis or even try it for an extended period.They already are gonna be getting beat down low most nights anyways with Nene out so why not throw your best shooters out and force the other team to defend them all.Wall/Beal 2 man could be one of the sets to run off of this but agree the timing has to be right to make it work.

Just throwing things out I see and clearly I'm no coach either.

Like I said, most of the guys I listen to on the Wiz want to see the small lineup too after the Nene injury, so I think you're on to something. If it's good enough for the Heat it's good enough for us.

FWIW George Karl(for the love of god please sign this man to coach the team) was saying on ESPN(or some program I was watching)that the Zards would be better with Nene out of the lineup.I don't buy into that but if they did go small it does have a chance of working.Great test coming up with the Raptors on deck so we will see what they do against a good team who can exploit them on defense.

I don't doubt that such a small-ball lineup could work occasionally, but I can't imagine a lineup with Ariza at the 4 not getting pounded if used for extended minutes. Clear-outs and ISOs for any decent sized 4 would just be too easy, and it's not as if Ariza is enough of a shooter to make opponents pay for the mismatch on the other end.

Glad to see Washington becoming a factor. Probably not fair to criticize the Wiz for passing on Faried since he went so much later, but I do remember Washington being discussed as a potential home for Kawhi at the time. Future would be so much brighter with him in red, white and blue.

Deploying Ariza at the 4 would have to be a team by team, minute by minute thing. I assume it wouldn't work against, say, Valanciunas and Amir Johnson, but I think it would work against stretch 4 lineups.

You'd be surprised what a good shooter Ariza has become. He's 16th in the league in 3 Pt% this season, and that's on a tremendous volume of attempts. If you get rid of some of the riffraff and include only guys with more than 3 attempts a game he jumps to 11th.

It's mostly the Wall effect, he's even better at dishing out corner 3s than he is at finishing. The Wiz actually have three high-usage guys shooting 40% or more from 3, I assume thanks to Wall. The coaching staff doesn't seem to be aware of it, though ... or maybe they think you get 2.9 points if you shoot just inside the line, because they just keep letting guys chuck up 20 footers for some reason.

 

[thecatch]

Ariza is shooting 41% on 6 threes per game. I think he's a threat to shoot as a stretch 4.

 

[tommyGunZ]

I don't know if "concerned" is the right word to use about a 20 year old, but is anyone else getting a little concerned about Beal? I'm not worried about the long 2s, those are infuriating but I blame coaching and youth, although it's not a good sign that a higher percentage of his attempts are midrange jumpers than last season. I'm more worried about the number of defensive/rebounding lapses. His rebound rate is also down from last year. Block and steal rates down a bit too, as are the advanced defense stats. Small declines, hopefully just noise, but he's not really progressing the way I hoped he would (and the way everyone seems to be assuming he is without bothering to check.

He's just not at the level of consistency you would want to see from him but as you said youth and coaching are clearly not in his favor right now.I asked this before but got no reply.Why doesn't Wittman run a Wall/Beal 2 man game outside more often(very few times if any I have seen this)?

Seems to me that this could work with as quick as Wall is but I could be wrong.

It is troubling to see his game not progressing the way it should but I think he has the skills to be that player they need him to be given the right situations around him.

I'm not a coach but from what I can tell, a two-man ISO is hard to run and requires a ridiculous amount of chemistry and experience between two guys, as well as a decent number of guys who can shoot the three well enough to really give them room to move, something the Wiz could only do if they went small with Ariza at the 4 (something Wizards Twitter is clamoring for after the Nene injury, so maybe you're on to something). Also seems like in most of the combos that do it right, one of the guys has some size to create mismatches.

Unfortunately it's a hard subject to Google b/c there's a prominent Mavs blog called The Two Man Game that messes with the results.

Yeah I brought up earlier the 4 small lineup and if Wittman would actually do it on a regular basis or even try it for an extended period.They already are gonna be getting beat down low most nights anyways with Nene out so why not throw your best shooters out and force the other team to defend them all.Wall/Beal 2 man could be one of the sets to run off of this but agree the timing has to be right to make it work.

Just throwing things out I see and clearly I'm no coach either.

Like I said, most of the guys I listen to on the Wiz want to see the small lineup too after the Nene injury, so I think you're on to something. If it's good enough for the Heat it's good enough for us.

FWIW George Karl(for the love of god please sign this man to coach the team) was saying on ESPN(or some program I was watching)that the Zards would be better with Nene out of the lineup.I don't buy into that but if they did go small it does have a chance of working.Great test coming up with the Raptors on deck so we will see what they do against a good team who can exploit them on defense.

I don't doubt that such a small-ball lineup could work occasionally, but I can't imagine a lineup with Ariza at the 4 not getting pounded if used for extended minutes. Clear-outs and ISOs for any decent sized 4 would just be too easy, and it's not as if Ariza is enough of a shooter to make opponents pay for the mismatch on the other end.

Glad to see Washington becoming a factor. Probably not fair to criticize the Wiz for passing on Faried since he went so much later, but I do remember Washington being discussed as a potential home for Kawhi at the time. Future would be so much brighter with him in red, white and blue.

Deploying Ariza at the 4 would have to be a team by team, minute by minute thing. I assume it wouldn't work against, say, Valanciunas and Amir Johnson, but I think it would work against stretch 4 lineups.

You'd be surprised what a good shooter Ariza has become. He's 16th in the league in 3 Pt% this season, and that's on a tremendous volume of attempts. If you get rid of some of the riffraff and include only guys with more than 3 attempts a game he jumps to 11th.

It's mostly the Wall effect, he's even better at dishing out corner 3s than he is at finishing. The Wiz actually have three high-usage guys shooting 40% or more from 3, I assume thanks to Wall. The coaching staff doesn't seem to be aware of it, though ... or maybe they think you get 2.9 points if you shoot just inside the line, because they just keep letting guys chuck up 20 footers for some reason.

You are right - even though I know he's been able to knock down open corner 3's since his Laker days, I had no idea he was blistering it at 41% this year. As you mention, the volume is high this season, so it's not a flukely couple of weeks.

Still, I'd be blown away if he finishes higher than say 38% on the year. But hey, maybe Wall is that good, and he's that wide open and will continue to be.

 

[TobiasFunke]

I'd prepare to be blown away, Gunz. He shot .364% last season after adding it as a weapon in his last years with the Lakers and peaking at around 33% before getting paired with Wall. He went 10 for 14 in the last game before the ASB, including a 7 for 7 quarter. He's a machine. He'll slump at some point again I'm sure, but I'm guessing he finishes right around 40%.

You could make a case that he's been the Wiz' second most valuable player this season. You could make a case for any of four guys, but if you weight D heavily Ariza has as good a case as any of them.

 

[tommyGunZ]

I'd prepare to be blown away, Gunz. He shot .364% last season after adding it as a weapon in his last years with the Lakers and peaking at around 33% before getting paired with Wall. He went 10 for 14 in the last game before the ASB, including a 7 for 7 quarter. He's a machine. He'll slump at some point again I'm sure, but I'm guessing he finishes right around 40%.

You could make a case that he's been the Wiz' second most valuable player this season. You could make a case for any of four guys, but if you weight D heavily Ariza has as good a case as any of them.

feverishly doing math to figure out if this is worth a $20 funzie wager among friends.

Only 25 games left....hmmm.

 

[TobiasFunke]

I'd prepare to be blown away, Gunz. He shot .364% last season after adding it as a weapon in his last years with the Lakers and peaking at around 33% before getting paired with Wall. He went 10 for 14 in the last game before the ASB, including a 7 for 7 quarter. He's a machine. He'll slump at some point again I'm sure, but I'm guessing he finishes right around 40%.

You could make a case that he's been the Wiz' second most valuable player this season. You could make a case for any of four guys, but if you weight D heavily Ariza has as good a case as any of them.

feverishly doing math to figure out if this is worth a $20 funzie wager among friends.

Only 25 games left....hmmm.

If he loses his touch enough to drop well below 40% from his current lofty number in only 25 games, it'll hurt me more than losing $20 would.

 

[tommyGunZ]

I'd prepare to be blown away, Gunz. He shot .364% last season after adding it as a weapon in his last years with the Lakers and peaking at around 33% before getting paired with Wall. He went 10 for 14 in the last game before the ASB, including a 7 for 7 quarter. He's a machine. He'll slump at some point again I'm sure, but I'm guessing he finishes right around 40%.

You could make a case that he's been the Wiz' second most valuable player this season. You could make a case for any of four guys, but if you weight D heavily Ariza has as good a case as any of them.

feverishly doing math to figure out if this is worth a $20 funzie wager among friends.

Only 25 games left....hmmm.

If he loses his touch enough to drop well below 40% from his current lofty number in only 25 games, it'll hurt me more than losing $20 would.

Yeah, and I don't want to root against the Wizards for the rest of the season. We'll revisit in May.

 

[STEADYMOBBIN 22]

Big game for both teams .

 

[Don Quixote]

Let's just call this one a tie.

 

[The_Man]

Grevias with back to back turnovers for 4 Wiz points in 3rd OT

 

[Sebowski]

TNT just switched over to the game.

 

[Don Quixote]

Let's just call this one a tie.

I take this back. Helluva win.

 

[STEADYMOBBIN 22]

BTW - Was George Karl right?

 

[tom22406]

Great game to watch from start to finish that felt like a playoff game in so many ways with how hard they were going at each other.

Finally beat a very tough Raptors team on the 4th try and it takes them 3OT's to do so on the road no less.This ain't your normal Zards team anymore boys and girls and I love it(win or lose).

Now the true test comes against a terrible Sixers team tomorrow night since these always seem to be the games they either don't work as hard or just forget to play for 42 minutes.2 games over .500 with 3 sitting on a platter.

 

[Dinsy Ejotuz]

When was the last time the Wizards won five in a row?

 

[The_Man]

Great game to watch from start to finish that felt like a playoff game in so many ways with how hard they were going at each other.

Finally beat a very tough Raptors team on the 4th try and it takes them 3OT's to do so on the road no less.This ain't your normal Zards team anymore boys and girls and I love it(win or lose).

Now the true test comes against a terrible Sixers team tomorrow night since these always seem to be the games they either don't work as hard or just forget to play for 42 minutes.2 games over .500 with 3 sitting on a platter.

I agree that suddenly this Sixers game is a big one - are the Wiz truly the kind of team that can follow up a big win by beating a team they should easily handle, or will they have a big win hangover from Toronto and play unfocused basketball?

 

[TobiasFunke]

Great game to watch from start to finish that felt like a playoff game in so many ways with how hard they were going at each other.

Finally beat a very tough Raptors team on the 4th try and it takes them 3OT's to do so on the road no less.This ain't your normal Zards team anymore boys and girls and I love it(win or lose).

Now the true test comes against a terrible Sixers team tomorrow night since these always seem to be the games they either don't work as hard or just forget to play for 42 minutes.2 games over .500 with 3 sitting on a platter.

I agree that suddenly this Sixers game is a big one - are the Wiz truly the kind of team that can follow up a big win by beating a team they should easily handle, or will they have a big win hangover from Toronto and play unfocused basketball?

My first thought was that y'all are crazy, this is a no-brainer win. Sixers have gone to full tank mode since that early season burst and win over the Wiz to open the season. They've traded Turner and Hawes, and they've lost 11 straight, most of them not close.

Then I remembered they're retiring AI's jersey tomorrow night. Ugh. Probably the only Sixers home game of the year that will have a big, loud crowd. Definitely gonna get their best effort.

 

[The_Man]

So that was pretty much the full Grevais Experience on full display last night. He gives his team a huge spark to get them back in the game in the 3rd and 4th quarter, then turns around and helps give it away in the clutch with non-existent defense and very questionable decision-making.

I still really enjoy watching him play, but I'm so glad he's not on a team I care about.

On a semi-related note, I just looked up the stat on NBA games played by former Terps. Steve Blake's next game will be his 708th, tying him for 6th all-time with Walt Williams. Next up on the list at 729 is Tom McMillen. Never would have thought that Steve Blake would be in the all-time Top 5 of NBA games played by a former Terp.

Anyone want to take a guess at the top 4? I would have guessed 3 of them.

Spoiler

Buck Williams 1307

Joe Smith 1030

Brad Davis 961

John Lucas 928

 

[tom22406]

I think what surprised me the most was how effective Chris Singleton was when he was on the floor,he has basically been MIA for almost an entire year for one reason or another but he was a huge factor in giving them production in limited minutes on both ends of the floor.Hope he keeps it up.

Also I did like Wittman(maybe he read this thread ) went with the small ball lineup in OT with Wall,Beal,Webster,Ariza and Gortat.I feel this gives Wall an even bigger advantage to beat his man one on one now with the floor spacing this create's and if double teamed a good shooter will be wide open.Of course the shooter has to hit the shot but I will take that all day if given the chance with those guys.

And to Tobias,I did hear about the jersey ceremony for AI so that was part of why I think this could be a trap for the Zards and couple that with how this team has been this year against some of the worst teams and it's a recipe for disaster if they let it get that far.I'm banking it won't but you never know.

 

[TobiasFunke]

I think what surprised me the most was how effective Chris Singleton was when he was on the floor,he has basically been MIA for almost an entire year for one reason or another but he was a huge factor in giving them production in limited minutes on both ends of the floor.Hope he keeps it up.

Also I did like Wittman(maybe he read this thread ) went with the small ball lineup in OT with Wall,Beal,Webster,Ariza and Gortat.I feel this gives Wall an even bigger advantage to beat his man one on one now with the floor spacing this create's and if double teamed a good shooter will be wide open.Of course the shooter has to hit the shot but I will take that all day if given the chance with those guys.

And to Tobias,I did hear about the jersey ceremony for AI so that was part of why I think this could be a trap for the Zards and couple that with how this team has been this year against some of the worst teams and it's a recipe for disaster if they let it get that far.I'm banking it won't but you never know.

Yeah the jersey ceremony thing is a bit of a bad break, but hopefully it won't matter too much. The crowd last night was surprisingly hyped for a midweek Raptors game- nice to see the fans there loving this crazy tankfail Raptors team, by the way- and the Wiz fought through it.

Huge opportunity here. We should be favored in the next four, and favored by 5+ points in three of them (guessing home vs. Memphis will be just a point or two). Anything less than 3 of 4 would be a huge disappointment. Getting several games clear of .500 should set them up for the 4-5 series and maybe even give them an outside shot at the 3.

 

[STEADYMOBBIN 22]

Oh and I wouldn't trade Wall for any PG in the game going forward. Hes unstoppable and whoever was talking anoutvthisvin here the other at is 100% right.

Now he just needs to start being a tiny bit more selfish when going to the hoop as teams are now counting on his unselfishness and waiting on his last second dishes. He had 2 or three easy layups last night and he instead passed.

 

[tom22406]

Oh and I wouldn't trade Wall for any PG in the game going forward. Hes unstoppable and whoever was talking anoutvthisvin here the other at is 100% right.

Now he just needs to start being a tiny bit more selfish when going to the hoop as teams are now counting on his unselfishness and waiting on his last second dishes. He had 2 or three easy layups last night and he instead passed.

Wall is certainly trending upwards but IMO still has a ways to go before he is in the same class as Chris Paul.Paul just does everything a little better.

Wall is younger though but I can't see any scenario where I would take him over Paul right now.

 

[STEADYMOBBIN 22]

Oh and I wouldn't trade Wall for any PG in the game going forward. Hes unstoppable and whoever was talking anoutvthisvin here the other at is 100% right.

Now he just needs to start being a tiny bit more selfish when going to the hoop as teams are now counting on his unselfishness and waiting on his last second dishes. He had 2 or three easy layups last night and he instead passed.

Wall is certainly trending upwards but IMO still has a ways to go before he is in the same class as Chris Paul.Paul just does everything a little better.Wall is younger though but I can't see any scenario where I would take him over Paul right now.

Paul is very overrated IMO. Give Wall those weapons and Doc and he out performs Paul.

Paul is also 5 years older. (As you alluded too)

 

[Ramsay Hunt Experience]

Oh and I wouldn't trade Wall for any PG in the game going forward. Hes unstoppable and whoever was talking anoutvthisvin here the other at is 100% right.

Now he just needs to start being a tiny bit more selfish when going to the hoop as teams are now counting on his unselfishness and waiting on his last second dishes. He had 2 or three easy layups last night and he instead passed.

Wall is certainly trending upwards but IMO still has a ways to go before he is in the same class as Chris Paul.Paul just does everything a little better.Wall is younger though but I can't see any scenario where I would take him over Paul right now.

Paul is very overrated IMO. Give Wall those weapons and Doc and he out performs Paul.

That's insane. It's not as if Paul suddenly got good when he was surrounded by weapons. He's always been awesome (and is probably far more responsible for his Clippers' teammates success than they are for his).

 

[TobiasFunke]

Oh and I wouldn't trade Wall for any PG in the game going forward. Hes unstoppable and whoever was talking anoutvthisvin here the other at is 100% right.

Now he just needs to start being a tiny bit more selfish when going to the hoop as teams are now counting on his unselfishness and waiting on his last second dishes. He had 2 or three easy layups last night and he instead passed.

Wall is certainly trending upwards but IMO still has a ways to go before he is in the same class as Chris Paul.Paul just does everything a little better.Wall is younger though but I can't see any scenario where I would take him over Paul right now.

Paul is very overrated IMO. Give Wall those weapons and Doc and he out performs Paul.

Paul is also 5 years older. (As you alluded too)

I don't know about outperforming Paul. We saw Paul surrounded by similar or worse talent in New Orleans and he was remarkable.

It is amazing to watch Wall grow, though. The new wrinkle he's added with the fake crossover or the hesitation or whatever you call that move is perfect. First he had to develop at least a respectable jump shot, so he did that and defenses weren't able to completely take away his penetration by playing ten feet off him. Then he needed to be able to create space to get off the shot from his preferred spot on the elbow, so he developed a great crossover to do that. Then just as teams started to catch on to that and anticipate it and get a hand in his face anyway, he busted out this new wrinkle with the fake crossover and got a couple of easy baskets at the perfect time out of it.

So much fun watching him grow. And as has been pointed out by Wiz fans many, many times, he's still younger than last season's rookie of the year.

 

[thecatch]

Oh and I wouldn't trade Wall for any PG in the game going forward. Hes unstoppable and whoever was talking anoutvthisvin here the other at is 100% right.

Now he just needs to start being a tiny bit more selfish when going to the hoop as teams are now counting on his unselfishness and waiting on his last second dishes. He had 2 or three easy layups last night and he instead passed.

Wall is certainly trending upwards but IMO still has a ways to go before he is in the same class as Chris Paul.Paul just does everything a little better.Wall is younger though but I can't see any scenario where I would take him over Paul right now.

Paul is very overrated IMO. Give Wall those weapons and Doc and he out performs Paul.

That's insane. It's not as if Paul suddenly got good when he was surrounded by weapons. He's always been awesome (and is probably far more responsible for his Clippers' teammates success than they are for his).

I know this is the homer thread, but does Wall do anything better than Westbrook? You wouldn't trade him for Curry? Lillard's in that conversation too. And I'm probably forgetting others.

That said, over the last 12 months Wall has really put it all together.

 

[Uruk-Hai]

So that was pretty much the full Grevais Experience on full display last night. He gives his team a huge spark to get them back in the game in the 3rd and 4th quarter, then turns around and helps give it away in the clutch with non-existent defense and very questionable decision-making.

I still really enjoy watching him play, but I'm so glad he's not on a team I care about.

On a semi-related note, I just looked up the stat on NBA games played by former Terps. Steve Blake's next game will be his 708th, tying him for 6th all-time with Walt Williams. Next up on the list at 729 is Tom McMillen. Never would have thought that Steve Blake would be in the all-time Top 5 of NBA games played by a former Terp.

Anyone want to take a guess at the top 4? I would have guessed 3 of them.

Spoiler

Buck Williams 1307

Joe Smith 1030

Brad Davis 961

John Lucas 928

I assume Davis is the one you would've missed? I would have, too, if this were asked last week because I had forgotten him until a friend brought him up the other day.

I'm a little shocked, too, that Blake has made such a career out of the NBA. No way would I have guessed it when he was at MD.

 

[TobiasFunke]

Oh and I wouldn't trade Wall for any PG in the game going forward. Hes unstoppable and whoever was talking anoutvthisvin here the other at is 100% right.

Now he just needs to start being a tiny bit more selfish when going to the hoop as teams are now counting on his unselfishness and waiting on his last second dishes. He had 2 or three easy layups last night and he instead passed.

Wall is certainly trending upwards but IMO still has a ways to go before he is in the same class as Chris Paul.Paul just does everything a little better.Wall is younger though but I can't see any scenario where I would take him over Paul right now.

Paul is very overrated IMO. Give Wall those weapons and Doc and he out performs Paul.

That's insane. It's not as if Paul suddenly got good when he was surrounded by weapons. He's always been awesome (and is probably far more responsible for his Clippers' teammates success than they are for his).

I know this is the homer thread, but does Wall do anything better than Westbrook? You wouldn't trade him for Curry? Lillard's in that conversation too. And I'm probably forgetting others.

That said, over the last 12 months Wall has really put it all together.

Yeah, homerism can go too far sometimes ... but at the same time, Wall is 6th among PGs in PER this season, and since PER is an offense/rebounding only stat it's worth noting that he's a vastly better defender than two of the six guys ahead of him (Curry, Thomas). And since PER doesn't account for amount of time on the court, also worth noting that he's third in Estimated Wins Added based on PER. There's 3-4 guys I'd clearly put ahead of him, but that's about it.

More important is that even having this conversation have been completely ridiculous a year ago.

 

[Don Quixote]

So that was pretty much the full Grevais Experience on full display last night. He gives his team a huge spark to get them back in the game in the 3rd and 4th quarter, then turns around and helps give it away in the clutch with non-existent defense and very questionable decision-making.

I still really enjoy watching him play, but I'm so glad he's not on a team I care about.

On a semi-related note, I just looked up the stat on NBA games played by former Terps. Steve Blake's next game will be his 708th, tying him for 6th all-time with Walt Williams. Next up on the list at 729 is Tom McMillen. Never would have thought that Steve Blake would be in the all-time Top 5 of NBA games played by a former Terp.

Anyone want to take a guess at the top 4? I would have guessed 3 of them.

Spoiler

Buck Williams 1307

Joe Smith 1030

Brad Davis 961

John Lucas 928

As a non-Maryland fan, it reminded me why I hated him so much. Gave the game away, but whining the whole time to the refs and seeming to blame everybody but himself. Hated that guy.

 

[Ramsay Hunt Experience]

Oh and I wouldn't trade Wall for any PG in the game going forward. Hes unstoppable and whoever was talking anoutvthisvin here the other at is 100% right.

Now he just needs to start being a tiny bit more selfish when going to the hoop as teams are now counting on his unselfishness and waiting on his last second dishes. He had 2 or three easy layups last night and he instead passed.

Wall is certainly trending upwards but IMO still has a ways to go before he is in the same class as Chris Paul.Paul just does everything a little better.Wall is younger though but I can't see any scenario where I would take him over Paul right now.

Paul is very overrated IMO. Give Wall those weapons and Doc and he out performs Paul.

That's insane. It's not as if Paul suddenly got good when he was surrounded by weapons. He's always been awesome (and is probably far more responsible for his Clippers' teammates success than they are for his).

I know this is the homer thread, but does Wall do anything better than Westbrook? You wouldn't trade him for Curry? Lillard's in that conversation too. And I'm probably forgetting others.

That said, over the last 12 months Wall has really put it all together.

Yeah, homerism can go too far sometimes ... but at the same time, Wall is 6th among PGs in PER this season, and since PER is an offense/rebounding only stat it's worth noting that he's a vastly better defender than two of the six guys ahead of him (Curry, Thomas). And since PER doesn't account for amount of time on the court, also worth noting that he's third in Estimated Wins Added based on PER. There's 3-4 guys I'd clearly put ahead of him, but that's about it.

More important is that even having this conversation have been completely ridiculous a year ago.

But Wall's advanced stats don't really show a major improvement from last year (there's a decent jump between the first two years and the second two years).

He's improved his shooting this year (total FG% is down, but only because he's shooting more 3s, he's better at both 3s and 2s than last year). But the improvement is kind of marginal in TS% and eFG%. His A/TO numbers haven't changed much. I don't know how his advanced defensive numbers are this year, but I assume they're down a bit considering the Wizards aren't as good on defense this year. PER is slightly down.

I know that Wall certainly seems like a much better player, but I think we were pretty hard on him his first two years. Particularly considering the knuckleheads he had to play basketball with.

 

[TobiasFunke]

Oh and I wouldn't trade Wall for any PG in the game going forward. Hes unstoppable and whoever was talking anoutvthisvin here the other at is 100% right.

Now he just needs to start being a tiny bit more selfish when going to the hoop as teams are now counting on his unselfishness and waiting on his last second dishes. He had 2 or three easy layups last night and he instead passed.

Wall is certainly trending upwards but IMO still has a ways to go before he is in the same class as Chris Paul.Paul just does everything a little better.Wall is younger though but I can't see any scenario where I would take him over Paul right now.

Paul is very overrated IMO. Give Wall those weapons and Doc and he out performs Paul.

That's insane. It's not as if Paul suddenly got good when he was surrounded by weapons. He's always been awesome (and is probably far more responsible for his Clippers' teammates success than they are for his).

I know this is the homer thread, but does Wall do anything better than Westbrook? You wouldn't trade him for Curry? Lillard's in that conversation too. And I'm probably forgetting others.

That said, over the last 12 months Wall has really put it all together.

Yeah, homerism can go too far sometimes ... but at the same time, Wall is 6th among PGs in PER this season, and since PER is an offense/rebounding only stat it's worth noting that he's a vastly better defender than two of the six guys ahead of him (Curry, Thomas). And since PER doesn't account for amount of time on the court, also worth noting that he's third in Estimated Wins Added based on PER. There's 3-4 guys I'd clearly put ahead of him, but that's about it.

More important is that even having this conversation have been completely ridiculous a year ago.

But Wall's advanced stats don't really show a major improvement from last year (there's a decent jump between the first two years and the second two years).

He's improved his shooting this year (total FG% is down, but only because he's shooting more 3s, he's better at both 3s and 2s than last year). But the improvement is kind of marginal in TS% and eFG%. His A/TO numbers haven't changed much. I don't know how his advanced defensive numbers are this year, but I assume they're down a bit considering the Wizards aren't as good on defense this year. PER is slightly down.

I know that Wall certainly seems like a much better player, but I think we were pretty hard on him his first two years. Particularly considering the knuckleheads he had to play basketball with.

Right. I think most people saw him make a huge leap forward when he came back from the injury last year. People weren't paying attention because they buried themselves with the early sucking but he played at a high level for the last 2+ months. That's why I said it would have been a ridiculous conversation a year ago rather than at the beginning of this season. The question was whether he could sustain it over a full season or whether it was just a small sample size, or a burst because he'd been resting half the year while everyone else was on the grind, or something like that.

This season is confirmation that he really is the guy we hoped we were seeing last year. The small bumps in the advanced stats from last year are all anyone could want. Also, I'd argue a .16% jump in eFG is a decent move forward. That's the difference between, say, a Tony Parker and a Mike Conley.

Interesting little quirk in his shooting numbers- for some reason he's had a huge drop in the 3-10 foot range. I have no idea what that's about. Maybe it's a small sample thing.

 

[The_Man]

So that was pretty much the full Grevais Experience on full display last night. He gives his team a huge spark to get them back in the game in the 3rd and 4th quarter, then turns around and helps give it away in the clutch with non-existent defense and very questionable decision-making.

I still really enjoy watching him play, but I'm so glad he's not on a team I care about.

On a semi-related note, I just looked up the stat on NBA games played by former Terps. Steve Blake's next game will be his 708th, tying him for 6th all-time with Walt Williams. Next up on the list at 729 is Tom McMillen. Never would have thought that Steve Blake would be in the all-time Top 5 of NBA games played by a former Terp.

Anyone want to take a guess at the top 4? I would have guessed 3 of them.

Spoiler

Buck Williams 1307

Joe Smith 1030

Brad Davis 961

John Lucas 928

Spoiler

I assume Davis is the one you would've missed? I would have, too, if this were asked last week because I had forgotten him until a friend brought him up the other day.

I'm a little shocked, too, that Blake has made such a career out of the NBA. No way would I have guessed it when he was at MD.

Yeah, Davis is the one I had forgotten. When you look at NBA minutes played, Blake is also behind Stevie Francis and - here's how I tenuously connect this side topic to the thread - former Bullets player and coach Gene Shue.

 

[tom22406]

Oh and I wouldn't trade Wall for any PG in the game going forward. Hes unstoppable and whoever was talking anoutvthisvin here the other at is 100% right.

Now he just needs to start being a tiny bit more selfish when going to the hoop as teams are now counting on his unselfishness and waiting on his last second dishes. He had 2 or three easy layups last night and he instead passed.

Wall is certainly trending upwards but IMO still has a ways to go before he is in the same class as Chris Paul.Paul just does everything a little better.Wall is younger though but I can't see any scenario where I would take him over Paul right now.

Paul is very overrated IMO. Give Wall those weapons and Doc and he out performs Paul.

Paul is also 5 years older. (As you alluded too)

I don't believe for a second Chris Paul is overrated and in fact I will say he has earned the right to be called the best PG in the league with how consistent his play has been.

I remember back when those two went at each other here at Verizon earlier this year and to be quite frank Chris Paul took him to school in many,many ways.This is no shame because he does this to just about everyone he plays against and to Wall's credit he saw the area's he needed to improve in and is working on those each game.

I get that being a homer is one thing but let's not knock Paul simply because we love or want Wall to be better because he isn't.He could get to that point in the near future but he isn't at that level yet.

 

[Uruk-Hai]

So that was pretty much the full Grevais Experience on full display last night. He gives his team a huge spark to get them back in the game in the 3rd and 4th quarter, then turns around and helps give it away in the clutch with non-existent defense and very questionable decision-making.

I still really enjoy watching him play, but I'm so glad he's not on a team I care about.

On a semi-related note, I just looked up the stat on NBA games played by former Terps. Steve Blake's next game will be his 708th, tying him for 6th all-time with Walt Williams. Next up on the list at 729 is Tom McMillen. Never would have thought that Steve Blake would be in the all-time Top 5 of NBA games played by a former Terp.

Anyone want to take a guess at the top 4? I would have guessed 3 of them.

Spoiler

Buck Williams 1307

Joe Smith 1030

Brad Davis 961

John Lucas 928

Spoiler

I assume Davis is the one you would've missed? I would have, too, if this were asked last week because I had forgotten him until a friend brought him up the other day.

I'm a little shocked, too, that Blake has made such a career out of the NBA. No way would I have guessed it when he was at MD.

Spoiler

Yeah, Davis is the one I had forgotten. When you look at NBA minutes played, Blake is also behind Stevie Francis and - here's how I tenuously connect this side topic to the thread - former Bullets player and coach Gene Shue.

Shue would've been the one I guessed before my Davis reminder.

Isn't it funny that Blake had the better career than Francis did?

Stevie Francis was a complete ####### (& miles more talented athletically than Blake) - MD's getting beat by Ron Artest's St John's team by about a zillion points and Francis is bragging to the Johnnies about how much more money he'll be making than any of those guys. Then he pulls his Draft Day ####. #### him. I'm not glad he flamed out in the NBA, but I don't mind karma coming home to roost every once in a while.

 

[STEADYMOBBIN 22]

I think all of you missed the part where I said GOING FORWARD - there isn't a PG I would take over him.

Because......

CP is 5 years older.

Westbrook, who I would take over anybody pre injury- has had the knee surgery- 3 times?

Steph Curry as the chronic ankle issues and doesn't doesn't have Wall's D.

 

[tom22406]

Zards have looked lost the last stretch of games going 1-4 in the last 5 and 4-6 in the last 10.

Shooting has been bad,not much ball movement in crucial times and the defense has been very poor.

11 games left and a 1.5 game lead for the 6th spot with the 3 and 4 out of reach unless a major miracle happens.5 spot they are 1.5 behind the Nets and could catch them if things fall right.

Remaining schedule has them playing vs Pacers,vs Atl,@Charl(huge),vs Bos,@NY,vs Chi,vs Charl(huge again),@Magic,vs Bucks,vs Heat(could be resting),@Celts.A good shot to go 8-3 or 7-4 which should secure them at worst the 6 seed and possibly the 5.Sliding to 7 is instant death 1st round.

Bobcats have 10 games left.@Orl,vs Wiz,@Sixers,vs Orl,@Cavs,@Wiz,@Celts,vs Sixers,@Atl,vs Chi.

Nets have 12 games left.vs Clev ,vs Minn,vs Hou,@NY,vs Det,@Sixers,@Mia,@Orl,vs Atl,vs Orl,vs NY,@Clev

Gonna be close to stay out of the 7 seed.

ETA:Standings in the East

Playoff Teams as of Today

1. Indiana Pacers (52-20)
2. Miami Heat (48-22),
3. Toronto Raptors(40-31),
4. Chicago Bulls (40-31),
5. Brooklyn Nets (37-33),
6. Washington Wizards (36-35),
7. Charlotte Bobcats (35-37),
8. Atlanta Hawks, (31-39),

On the outside looking in

9. New York Knicks (30-42),
10. Cleveland Cavaliers (29-44),

 

[thecatch]

I was at the game last night. First time I've ever actively criticized Wall for NOT shooting more open threes - he's really developed that skill this year, but the suns were giving him an open look on almost every possession and he didn't start firing until late in the third.

This team needs Nene badly, not just because of what he brings to the table but because his backups are bad. Compounding that, Wittman for some reason took Booker's minutes and gave them to Harrington late last night (who is just done as a player) and they promptly lost out on a couple key lose balls and rebounds.

The wizards are generally running more offense than they were early in the season, but you're right, there were many key possessions late last night where 4 guys literally did not move for 10 seconds so they could watch Wall try and make a move. You guys will enjoy the George Karl era a lot more.

 

[TobiasFunke]

Zards have looked lost the last stretch of games going 1-4 in the last 5 and 4-6 in the last 10.

Shooting has been bad,not much ball movement in crucial times and the defense has been very poor.

11 games left and a 1.5 game lead for the 6th spot with the 3 and 4 out of reach unless a major miracle happens.5 spot they are 1.5 behind the Nets and could catch them if things fall right.

Remaining schedule has them playing vs Pacers,vs Atl,@Charl(huge),vs Bos,@NY,vs Chi,vs Charl(huge again),@Magic,vs Bucks,vs Heat(could be resting),@Celts.A good shot to go 8-3 or 7-4 which should secure them at worst the 6 seed and possibly the 5.Sliding to 7 is instant death 1st round.

Bobcats have 10 games left.@Orl,vs Wiz,@Sixers,vs Orl,@Cavs,@Wiz,@Celts,vs Sixers,@Atl,vs Chi.

Nets have 12 games left.vs Clev ,vs Minn,vs Hou,@NY,vs Det,@Sixers,@Mia,@Orl,vs Atl,vs Orl,vs NY,@Clev

Gonna be close to stay out of the 7 seed.

I think a split with the Bobcats could do it. I doubt they win in Charlotte without Nene, so that home game April 9 is gonna be the biggest Wiz game in several seasons.

I kinda saw this coming after the loss to the Bobcats two weeks ago and grabbed some really good seats on the cheap for that game off Stubhub. If anyone is interested in doing the same it looks like the market hasn't really caught on yet (I saw some clearly delusional people on Wizards twitter rooting for the Bobcats over the Nets last night). Tickets are still super cheap. Lower level center for like $60-$70, lower level corners for $25-$30. Hopefully the fans eventually figure out it's a huge game and pack the place, because right now it's prices like the least popular game of the year.

 

[tom22406]

I was at the game last night. First time I've ever actively criticized Wall for NOT shooting more open threes - he's really developed that skill this year, but the suns were giving him an open look on almost every possession and he didn't start firing until late in the third.

This team needs Nene badly, not just because of what he brings to the table but because his backups are bad. Compounding that, Wittman for some reason took Booker's minutes and gave them to Harrington late last night (who is just done as a player) and they promptly lost out on a couple key lose balls and rebounds.

The wizards are generally running more offense than they were early in the season, but you're right, there were many key possessions late last night where 4 guys literally did not move for 10 seconds so they could watch Wall try and make a move. You guys will enjoy the George Karl era a lot more.

It has to be tough for Wall in having to choose between driving or taking those open jumpers most teams seem to be still giving him.I think he's most dangerous driving the net and helps the team get more involved when he does this more but when you have those open looks you really do have to take them so I get your point.

I still firmly believe that we don't see any changes in either Grunfeld or Wittman if they make the playoffs and get at least 1 win in the 1st series.He will say one more year and if a change is made it will be during the next regular season if they start to falter.I want Karl so bad to coach this team so I really hope I'm wrong here but my gut says he stays with both for now.

 

[TobiasFunke]

Semi-respectability achieved.

:confetti:

 

[Dinsy Ejotuz]

Zards diehards... if they wanted to get better on defense without giving up anything on offense who among the starters could get replaced? You'd have to think that offensively they've got room to grow with the status quo -- as Wall and Beal get better. Not so much defensively.

 

[tom22406]

Semi-respectability achieved.

:confetti:

One step at a time.2 up with 7 to play to get the 6 seed is the next step.

 

[TobiasFunke]

Zards diehards... if they wanted to get better on defense without giving up anything on offense who among the starters could get replaced? You'd have to think that offensively they've got room to grow with the status quo -- as Wall and Beal get better. Not so much defensively.

Gortat for a better post defender would make them better on that end, but then you've got a void on the offensive end. Not really much else they can do other than hope the existing guys get better, especially Beal who's kinda iffy on that end. Everyone else is here for a while except Ariza, and 6th man Webster went from a defensive asset to a liability this year but he's on board for three more years. They may have to cut loose Ariza because of it and hope for the best from him and Porter. Rest of the bench could definitely be upgraded defensively though. Seraphin is awful on D, and I love the AARP guys but they're not exactly the Pacers on that end.

 

[tom22406]

Zards diehards... if they wanted to get better on defense without giving up anything on offense who among the starters could get replaced? You'd have to think that offensively they've got room to grow with the status quo -- as Wall and Beal get better. Not so much defensively.

Nene seems the logical pick because of all the games he normally misses and it also exposes the lack of depth down low on the bench.Ariza is flat out one of the best defenders in the league and Gortat while not great down low does tend to block shots pretty well

 

[Dinsy Ejotuz]

Is it possible to improve by adding a shutdown defender and/or lane clogging big guy as your 7th/8th players? Or are those depth guys basically irrelevant to the +/-? Don't really know much about the guts of the NBA.

 

[TobiasFunke]

Is it possible to improve by adding a shutdown defender and/or lane clogging big guy as your 7th/8th players? Or are those depth guys basically irrelevant to the +/-? Don't really know much about the guts of the NBA.

Sure, anyone that sees court time can improve the team's numbers, and to my eyes the Wiz bench is a bigger problem defensively than the starters. Plus 3 of the 5 starters aren't going anywhere for a while and one of the two who could leave is their best defender, so it'll be hard to upgrade defensively there.

The defense isn't really all that bad though. It's 12th in the NBA in efficiency this season, although obviously playing in the East helps there. Their biggest problems in my opinion are the long twos and the FT line. They're second in the league in 3 point % but only 11th in eFG%, which tells me they're taking too many long 2s. And they're also bad at getting to and converting at the line- 25th in both FTA/game and FT%.

 

[tom22406]

Is it possible to improve by adding a shutdown defender and/or lane clogging big guy as your 7th/8th players? Or are those depth guys basically irrelevant to the +/-? Don't really know much about the guts of the NBA.

Sure, anyone that sees court time can improve the team's numbers, and to my eyes the Wiz bench is a bigger problem defensively than the starters. Plus 3 of the 5 starters aren't going anywhere for a while and one of the two who could leave is their best defender, so it'll be hard to upgrade defensively there.

The defense isn't really all that bad though. It's 12th in the NBA in efficiency this season, although obviously playing in the East helps there. Their biggest problems in my opinion are the long twos and the FT line. They're second in the league in 3 point % but only 11th in eFG%, which tells me they're taking too many long 2s. And they're also bad at getting to and converting at the line- 25th in both FTA/game and FT%.

We were discussing this a while back about how bad the bench was and how it was dragging them down early so instead of replacing the starters it would be better to address the real problem of the bench play and lack of quality depth.

I don't see Ariza returning either unless he takes a discount and at his age I'm not sure why he would do it.